I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,
I pushed a long stick into the hole and found that the hole was 4'
deep! My house is 60 years old and was hooked up to town sewerage I'm
guessing about 50 years ago. I have lived here for 30 years and had no
clue a to where the old septic tank was.
I know were it is now! The small hole ended up yo be a 5 foot diameter
hole with muddy water about 4ft deep. Good thing I found it before
some kid fell in.
This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders. The hole
is now about 6" deep. Shoud I add crushed stone before I add top soil?
Seems like if I add top soil over bolders it will seep down.

The people that were the previous owners weren't too bright. They
should have doen something about the old septic tank after they
disconnected it from the house.

"mstrspy" wrote in message
...
I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,
I pushed a long stick into the hole and found that the hole was 4'
deep! My house is 60 years old and was hooked up to town sewerage I'm
guessing about 50 years ago. I have lived here for 30 years and had no
clue a to where the old septic tank was.
I know were it is now! The small hole ended up yo be a 5 foot diameter
hole with muddy water about 4ft deep. Good thing I found it before
some kid fell in.
This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders. The hole
is now about 6" deep. Shoud I add crushed stone before I add top soil?
Seems like if I add top soil over bolders it will seep down.

Bury it and be done with it.

The people that were the previous owners weren't too bright. They
should have doen something about the old septic tank after they
disconnected it from the house.

What should have they done with it? Why don't you do it then? Should they
have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. I've done with it
the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

"mstrspy" wrote in message
This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders. The hole
is now about 6" deep. Shoud I add crushed stone before I add top soil?
Seems like if I add top soil over bolders it will seep down.


Yes, or you will just keep adding top soil until the entire thing is filled.
There is a procedure at:
http://www.csd-1.com/s2s.html

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message

What should have they done with it? Why don't you do it then? Should
they have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. I've done with it
the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

Then you should do something. Some town have codes and procedures as does
the Uniform Plumbing Code

Also, read this http://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad situation.

On Apr 22, 9:37�pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"J.A. Michel" wrote in message

What should have they done with it? *Why don't you do it then? *Should
they have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. *I've done with it
the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

Then you should do something. *Some town have codes and procedures as does
the Uniform Plumbing Code

Also, read this *http://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad situation.

big bopulders and rocks BAD IDEA! the dirt that musat o on top will
forever be leaking between boulders and sinking.

you shoulds of filled with gravel little sink with that, or filled
with plain dirt sprayed with water and compacted.

what you added was the worst choice you could of made.....

sorry to give you bad news......

I probably would have opened it up and filled it with crushed rock,
It's a pretty dangerous sitiuation to have a huge viod underground
lined with steel that wil eventually rot away.

The previous owners didn't want to spend anything on tihs house. I
bouht the place when I was an unsuspecting kid.
For example, these cheap skates woudln'teven spring for a 3 prong plug
for the dryer. The hard wired it into the fuse box. Very dangerous and
illegal. Had all of this stuff fixed.

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:20:44 -0500, "J.A. Michel"
wrote:


"mstrspy" wrote in message
.. .
I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,
I pushed a long stick into the hole and found that the hole was 4'
deep! My house is 60 years old and was hooked up to town sewerage I'm
guessing about 50 years ago. I have lived here for 30 years and had no
clue a to where the old septic tank was.
I know were it is now! The small hole ended up yo be a 5 foot diameter
hole with muddy water about 4ft deep. Good thing I found it before
some kid fell in.
This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders. The hole
is now about 6" deep. Shoud I add crushed stone before I add top soil?
Seems like if I add top soil over bolders it will seep down.

Bury it and be done with it.

The people that were the previous owners weren't too bright. They
should have doen something about the old septic tank after they
disconnected it from the house.

What should have they done with it? Why don't you do it then? Should they
have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. I've done with it
the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

Looks like I built my self a nice rock garden! Kidding Aside, I had
to do somethng quick. Ther are kids running around in my yard all the
time and the last thing I want is for someone to fall into the hole.


On 22 Apr 2007 18:58:11 -0700, "
wrote:

On Apr 22, 9:37?pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"J.A. Michel" wrote in message

What should have they done with it? hy don't you do it then? hould
they have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. 've done with it
the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

Then you should do something. ome town have codes and procedures as does
the Uniform Plumbing Code

Also, read this (ttp://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad situation.

big bopulders and rocks BAD IDEA! the dirt that musat o on top will
forever be leaking between boulders and sinking.

you shoulds of filled with gravel little sink with that, or filled
with plain dirt sprayed with water and compacted.

what you added was the worst choice you could of made.....

sorry to give you bad news......

mstrspy wrote:
I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,

snip

This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders.

Really, really bad idea. Before going further, get a load of sand
(that's SAND!) and start filling it. Bank run gravel may settle
eventually, but sand will compact between the rocks many times faster.
Keep it a foot below grade until next summer, then do the topsoil and
grass seed routine.

HTH

Joe

That's what I was thinking, sand, but I had no sand on hand this
weekend and needed to fill that hole with something.


A few years back, I found another similar hole but smaller. Did the
same thing, filled it with bolders and I haven' seen any errosion.

I'm not sure why that other hole was there. Does a typical septic
system have two chambers spread appart?

On 22 Apr 2007 19:21:13 -0700, Joe wrote:


mstrspy wrote:
I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,

snip

This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders.

Really, really bad idea. Before going further, get a load of sand
(that's SAND!) and start filling it. Bank run gravel may settle
eventually, but sand will compact between the rocks many times faster.
Keep it a foot below grade until next summer, then do the topsoil and
grass seed routine.

HTH

Joe

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:10:14 GMT, mstrspy wrote:

Looks like I built my self a nice rock garden! Kidding Aside, I had
to do somethng quick. Ther are kids running around in my yard all the
time and the last thing I want is for someone to fall into the hole.

I understand.

Maybe it's not too late to fill with gravel small enough to get past
the boulders, and dirt.

Is there a bottom to the hole? Does the water run out the bottom or
not. If it seems out the bottom, maybe you can wash the gravel in
with a garden hose, and use the hose lightly to fill up the rest of
the niches with dirt. So the process doesn't take years but days.
But I don't know.

You'll use less of anything you add now because the boulders will take
up so much space.




On 22 Apr 2007 18:58:11 -0700, "
wrote:

On Apr 22, 9:37?pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"J.A. Michel" wrote in message

What should have they done with it? hy don't you do it then? hould
they have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. 've done with it
the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

Then you should do something. ome town have codes and procedures as does
the Uniform Plumbing Code

Also, read this (ttp://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad situation.

big bopulders and rocks BAD IDEA! the dirt that musat o on top will
forever be leaking between boulders and sinking.

you shoulds of filled with gravel little sink with that, or filled
with plain dirt sprayed with water and compacted.

what you added was the worst choice you could of made.....

sorry to give you bad news......

"mstrspy" wrote in message
...
That's what I was thinking, sand, but I had no sand on hand this
weekend and needed to fill that hole with something.


A few years back, I found another similar hole but smaller. Did the
same thing, filled it with bolders and I haven' seen any errosion.

I'm not sure why that other hole was there. Does a typical septic
system have two chambers spread appart?

leach field maybe, or possibly a separate tank for the greywater coming from
the washing machine and/or dishwasher.

On 22 Apr 2007 19:21:13 -0700, Joe wrote:


mstrspy wrote:
I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,

snip

This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders.

Really, really bad idea. Before going further, get a load of sand
(that's SAND!) and start filling it. Bank run gravel may settle
eventually, but sand will compact between the rocks many times faster.
Keep it a foot below grade until next summer, then do the topsoil and
grass seed routine.

HTH

Joe

"mstrspy" wrote in message

I'm not sure why that other hole was there. Does a typical septic
system have two chambers spread appart?

Could have. One actual septic tanks, another smaller tank that acts like a
distribution box at the drainfield.

There is a hard bottom. I used a crow bar and the bottom seems to be
somewhat solid. The water seemed to dry up over the weekend, more like
mud now. I will go to Home depot (or equivalent) and get bags of
sand. I can't get a truck in back of my house so I'll have to bring in
bags one at a time.

Got some real exercise this weekend.


On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:39:44 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:10:14 GMT, mstrspy wrote:

Looks like I built my self a nice rock garden! Kidding Aside, I had
to do somethng quick. Ther are kids running around in my yard all the
time and the last thing I want is for someone to fall into the hole.

I understand.

Maybe it's not too late to fill with gravel small enough to get past
the boulders, and dirt.

Is there a bottom to the hole? Does the water run out the bottom or
not. If it seems out the bottom, maybe you can wash the gravel in
with a garden hose, and use the hose lightly to fill up the rest of
the niches with dirt. So the process doesn't take years but days.
But I don't know.

You'll use less of anything you add now because the boulders will take
up so much space.




On 22 Apr 2007 18:58:11 -0700, "
wrote:

On Apr 22, 9:37?pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"J.A. Michel" wrote in message

What should have they done with it? hy don't you do it then? hould
they have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. 've done with it
the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

Then you should do something. ome town have codes and procedures as does
the Uniform Plumbing Code

Also, read this (ttp://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad situation.

big bopulders and rocks BAD IDEA! the dirt that musat o on top will
forever be leaking between boulders and sinking.

you shoulds of filled with gravel little sink with that, or filled
with plain dirt sprayed with water and compacted.

what you added was the worst choice you could of made.....

sorry to give you bad news......

mstrspy wrote:
I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,
I pushed a long stick into the hole and found that the hole was 4'
deep! My house is 60 years old and was hooked up to town sewerage I'm
guessing about 50 years ago. I have lived here for 30 years and had no
clue a to where the old septic tank was.
I know were it is now! The small hole ended up yo be a 5 foot diameter
hole with muddy water about 4ft deep. Good thing I found it before
some kid fell in.
This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders. The hole
is now about 6" deep. Shoud I add crushed stone before I add top soil?
Seems like if I add top soil over bolders it will seep down.

The people that were the previous owners weren't too bright. They
should have doen something about the old septic tank after they
disconnected it from the house.


I have had to do away with four septic tanks. According to
the TNRCC (Texas natural resource conservation commission)
which is one of the agencies that has jurisdiction over this,
the proper method is as follows:

Open the top and have the contents pumped by a licensed septic
company. Fill with sand to within one foot of the top. Cover
with dirt.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:33:37 GMT, mstrspy wrote:

That's what I was thinking, sand, but I had no sand on hand this
weekend and needed to fill that hole with something.


A few years back, I found another similar hole but smaller. Did the
same thing, filled it with bolders and I haven' seen any errosion.

I'm not sure why that other hole was there. Does a typical septic
system have two chambers spread appart?

On 22 Apr 2007 19:21:13 -0700, Joe wrote:


mstrspy wrote:
I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,

snip

This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders.

Really, really bad idea. Before going further, get a load of sand
(that's SAND!) and start filling it. Bank run gravel may settle
eventually, but sand will compact between the rocks many times faster.
Keep it a foot below grade until next summer, then do the topsoil and
grass seed routine.

HTH

Joe

What you did was fine. Excellent in fact. Just put 6 inches of
topsoil and grass sod over your 6 inch deep depression for now and
then add sand or topsoil as it continues to settle over the next few
years.

You know our land is continually moving and corrections have to be
made even in those places where there was no hole. Telephone poles
and fences show leaning posts after just a very few years and animals
such as moles, gophers, ground hogs and armadillos change our
landscape. My neighbors buy a couple of cubic yards of sandy loam
to level their places again.

"mstrspy" wrote in message
...

There is a hard bottom. I used a crow bar and the bottom seems to be
somewhat solid. The water seemed to dry up over the weekend, more like
mud now. I will go to Home depot (or equivalent) and get bags of
sand. I can't get a truck in back of my house so I'll have to bring in
bags one at a time.

Got some real exercise this weekend.

Get it dumped in your driveway and use a wheelbarrow. Buying bagged sand for
that volume will cost a fortune.

aem sends....

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:10:00 GMT, mstrspy wrote:


There is a hard bottom. I used a crow bar and the bottom seems to be

The other guy was right. Use sand. It won't matter what the bottom
is like.

somewhat solid. The water seemed to dry up over the weekend, more like
mud now. I will go to Home depot (or equivalent) and get bags of
sand. I can't get a truck in back of my house so I'll have to bring in
bags one at a time.

Got some real exercise this weekend.

I'll bet.

"mstrspy" wrote in message
...

There is a hard bottom. I used a crow bar and the bottom seems to be
somewhat solid. The water seemed to dry up over the weekend, more like
mud now. I will go to Home depot (or equivalent) and get bags of
sand. I can't get a truck in back of my house so I'll have to bring in
bags one at a time.

Got some real exercise this weekend.

You can get a wheelbarrow fairly cheap. Easier on the back.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message

What should have they done with it? Why don't you do it then? Should
they have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. I've done with
it the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

Then you should do something. Some town have codes and procedures as does
the Uniform Plumbing Code

Also, read this http://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad
situation.


This septic is a solid concrete vault type, less than 30 years old. I'm not
about to go digging up a non-problem.

On Apr 22, 10:04 pm, "J.A. Michel" wrote:
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message

. ..





"J.A. Michel" wrote in message

What should have they done with it? Why don't you do it then? Should
they have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. I've done with
it the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

Then you should do something. Some town have codes and procedures as does
the Uniform Plumbing Code

Also, read this http://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad
situation.

This septic is a solid concrete vault type, less than 30 years old. I'm not
about to go digging up a non-problem.

I'm not about to go digging up a non-problem.

It's a non-problem until the thing deteriorates & caves in.

cheers
Bob

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message
Also, read this http://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad
situation.


This septic is a solid concrete vault type, less than 30 years old. I'm
not about to go digging up a non-problem.

Evidently, many others thought it was a non-problem also. Does this mean
you'll just leave it for the next owner to discover it with disastrous
results? Or your grandkids? If it is a violation of you local does, you
can even get sued by the next owner even if nothing happens.

"mstrspy" wrote

Looks like I built my self a nice rock garden! Kidding Aside, I had
to do somethng quick. Ther are kids running around in my yard all the
time and the last thing I want is for someone to fall into the hole.

Same thing happened to me ... I saw a hole and stuck a big stick
down to see how deep it was. Scared me half to death when I
found out how deep it was. I had no idea there was anything
like it there.

I filled it with a bunch of wall stone I had lying around. There is
a shallow depression over it but it's no hassle at all.

nancy

On Apr 22, 11:22�pm, deke wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:33:37 GMT, mstrspy wrote:
That's what I was thinking, sand, but I had no sand on hand this
weekend and needed to fill that hole with something.

A few years back, I found another similar hole but smaller. *Did the
same thing, filled it with bolders and I haven' seen any errosion.

I'm not sure why that other hole was there. Does a typical septic
system have two chambers spread appart?

On 22 Apr 2007 19:21:13 -0700, Joe wrote:

mstrspy wrote:
I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,

snip

This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders.

Really, really bad idea. Before going further, get a load of sand
(that's SAND!) and start filling it. Bank run gravel may settle
eventually, but sand will compact between the rocks many times faster.
Keep it a foot below grade until next summer, then do the topsoil and
grass seed routine.

HTH

Joe

*What you did was fine. * Excellent in fact. *Just put 6 inches of
topsoil and grass sod over your 6 inch deep depression for now and
then add sand or topsoil as it continues to settle over the next few
years.

You know our land is continually moving and corrections have to be
made even in those places where there was no hole. * Telephone poles
and fences show leaning posts after just a very few years and animals
such as moles, gophers, ground hogs and armadillos change our
landscape. * *My neighbors buy a couple of cubic yards of sandy loam
to level their places again.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

big boulders bad, as the dirt he planned putting on top filters down
it migrates into the old leach field, and requires continiuos
replacement.

lots of old septic tanks were reused as a leach field for downspout
drains. hopefully thats not the case here.

abandoned and forgotten septic tanks and pits left over from sewer
disposal are pretty common.

these were abandoned long before laws were enacted on proper disposal.

my best friend uses his old tank for downspout water disposal. I saw
in the tank recently his dad filled it with garbage when it was taken
out of service over 50 years ago. he dug it up to check the lid, which
was still in remarkably good condition for its over 100 year age.

my buddy was concerned the lid might be rotting.

truckload of sand way cheaper than bags

On Apr 22, 6:58 pm, " wrote:
On Apr 22, 9:37?pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message

What should have they done with it? ?Why don't you do it then? ?Should
they have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. ?I've done with it
the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

Then you should do something. ?Some town have codes and procedures as does
the Uniform Plumbing Code

Also, read this ?http://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad situation.

big bopulders and rocks BAD IDEA! the dirt that musat o on top will
forever be leaking between boulders and sinking.

you shoulds of filled with gravel little sink with that, or filled
with plain dirt sprayed with water and compacted.

what you added was the worst choice you could of made.....

sorry to give you bad news......

What he did was not that bad. He can cover it with dirt as is. The
worst that will happen is refilling the settling hole several times
over the years. Putting sand down to filter down will require the
same thing so...

Harry K

On Apr 23, 9:23�am, Harry K wrote:
On Apr 22, 6:58 pm, " wrote:





On Apr 22, 9:37?pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message

What should have they done with it? ?Why don't you do it then? ?Should
they have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. ?I've done with it
the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

Then you should do something. ?Some town have codes and procedures as does
the Uniform Plumbing Code

Also, read this ?http://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad situation.

big bopulders and rocks BAD IDEA! the dirt that musat o on top will
forever be leaking between boulders and sinking.

you shoulds of filled with gravel little sink with that, or filled
with plain dirt sprayed with water and compacted.

what you added was the worst choice you could of made.....

sorry to give you bad news......

What he did was not that bad. *He can cover it with dirt as is. *The
worst that will happen is refilling the settling hole several times
over the years. *Putting sand down to filter down will require the
same thing so...

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well the company that built this tract of homes fillewd in a old hand
dug well in our back yard this way.

House built in 1950 well filled in with boulders at that time.

I moved here in 1972 and was told it was the neighborhood dirt dump,
and it was a big depression back then.

I got interested in filling it in about 1980 and added several
truckloads of topsoil. It continued o sink till 1990 or so.

do you really want a ongoing hassle for 10 or 20 years?

big rocks leave big voids, and the dirt washes in them.

On Apr 23, 8:53 am, " wrote:
On Apr 23, 9:23?am, Harry K wrote:





On Apr 22, 6:58 pm, " wrote:

On Apr 22, 9:37?pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message

What should have they done with it? ?Why don't you do it then? ?Should
they have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. ?I've done with it
the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

Then you should do something. ?Some town have codes and procedures as does
the Uniform Plumbing Code

Also, read this ?http://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad situation.

big bopulders and rocks BAD IDEA! the dirt that musat o on top will
forever be leaking between boulders and sinking.

you shoulds of filled with gravel little sink with that, or filled
with plain dirt sprayed with water and compacted.

what you added was the worst choice you could of made.....

sorry to give you bad news......

What he did was not that bad. He can cover it with dirt as is. The
worst that will happen is refilling the settling hole several times
over the years. Putting sand down to filter down will require the
same thing so...

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well the company that built this tract of homes fillewd in a old hand
dug well in our back yard this way.

House built in 1950 well filled in with boulders at that time.

I moved here in 1972 and was told it was the neighborhood dirt dump,
and it was a big depression back then.

I got interested in filling it in about 1980 and added several
truckloads of topsoil. It continued o sink till 1990 or so.

do you really want a ongoing hassle for 10 or 20 years?

big rocks leave big voids, and the dirt washes in them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If the OP had access to flyash could that be used somehow? I know
when it is dampened then dries it is hard as a rock. A Farmer used it
to fill an area for a barn and I had to drill 18" post holes,,took
forever.
When it's belly dumped it flows like water and would fill every
nook n cranny. Just a thought.

wrote:

big bopulders and rocks BAD IDEA! the dirt that musat o on top will
forever be leaking between boulders and sinking.

you shoulds of filled with gravel little sink with that, or filled
with plain dirt sprayed with water and compacted.

what you added was the worst choice you could of made.....

sorry to give you bad news......


Actually... the volume between rocks is based on the variety of size....
In other words, "poorly graded" - i.e. all the same size - rocks have
a voids ratio of 0.4, meaning there is 40% air/water/whatever between
them. The size of the rocks doesn't matter. Boulders are just as
good/bad as pea gravel.

So... If you want to fill in, make sure you get "well graded" gravel,
meaning a little of every size. or just throw whatever you have in,
then, if your soil allows it, hose in dirt....

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. net...

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message
Also, read this http://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad
situation.


This septic is a solid concrete vault type, less than 30 years old. I'm
not about to go digging up a non-problem.

Evidently, many others thought it was a non-problem also. Does this mean
you'll just leave it for the next owner to discover it with disastrous
results? Or your grandkids? If it is a violation of you local does, you
can even get sued by the next owner even if nothing happens.

I appreciate what you're saying, Ed. I don't really see any difference
weather the thing is in use or not, it's there.
The thing would be just as prone to cave in if it were in use right? Does
the fact that it's not in use
make it not safer than inuse? So what's the difference? Like I said, it's
not a problem for me. I'm not
getting out the backhoe to go digging for problems. Yes, I will leave it
for the next owner, as it was left by a previous
owner for me. I will inform the next owner about it, not hiding nothing.
The previous owners did not bother to tell me about it......

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:51:51 -0500, "J.A. Michel"
wrote:


I appreciate what you're saying, Ed. I don't really see any difference
weather the thing is in use or not, it's there.
The thing would be just as prone to cave in if it were in use right? Does
the fact that it's not in use
make it not safer than inuse?

It's that it is older.

I think it is that these things go from being in use to being out of
use, and very rarely go from out of use to in use. So things that are
out of use are on average much older than the ones that are in use.

Say that septic tanks are used on average for 30 years. So assume the
average age of an in-use septic tank is 15 years.

But the average starting-age of a non-used septic tank would then be
30 years, and the the average age could easily be more than 45 years.
More than 3 times the average age of an in-use tank. And getting
older all the time.

So what's the difference? Like I said, it's
not a problem for me. I'm not
getting out the backhoe to go digging for problems. Yes, I will leave it
for the next owner,

If the next owner were in full control of everything that happened
because of it that would be fine, but he doesn't and can't control
everyone who walks on his lawn. Nor can you.

as it was left by a previous
owner for me. I will inform the next owner about it, not hiding nothing.
The previous owners did not bother to tell me about it......

What has that got to do with it?

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message
I appreciate what you're saying, Ed. I don't really see any difference
weather the thing is in use or not, it's there.
The thing would be just as prone to cave in if it were in use right? Does
the fact that it's not in use
make it not safer than inuse? So what's the difference?

Pressure. If the tank is empty, the outside pressure on the walls is
greater than if the tank is filled. Greater pressure, greater chance of
cracking and collapsing. Depending on soil conditions, the empty tank can
even try to float if the ground was very wet after a long series of rainy
days.

Then there is methane. Empty tansk with some rotting stuff on the bottom
are prone to it. If you fell into a large tanks of crappy water, you may be
dusgustingly filthy but can get to the top and get out. If the empty tank
is filled with some quanity of methane, you can pass out, eventually die,
before you could get help. People have died going into abandoned tanks and
wells trying to help someone that has already passed out. About 10 years
ago, three brothers did exactly then. First one dropped, then the other
two went in to help and never came up.


Like I said, it's not a problem for me. I'm not
getting out the backhoe to go digging for problems. Yes, I will leave it
for the next owner, as it was left by a previous
owner for me. I will inform the next owner about it, not hiding nothing.
The previous owners did not bother to tell me about it......

For the sake of you and your family, I hope it never is a problem. There is
sound reasoning behind the regulations to fill them in.

On Apr 23, 6:53 am, " wrote:
On Apr 23, 9:23?am, Harry K wrote:





On Apr 22, 6:58 pm, " wrote:

On Apr 22, 9:37?pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message

What should have they done with it? ?Why don't you do it then? ?Should
they have dug it up?
My house also has an abandoned septic tank in the yard. ?I've done with it
the same thing that
you're previous owners did with yours - *nothing*.

Then you should do something. ?Some town have codes and procedures as does
the Uniform Plumbing Code

Also, read this ?http://www.septicprotector.com/deathpools.htm

Ignorance is not an excuse so it would be wise to remedy the bad situation.

big bopulders and rocks BAD IDEA! the dirt that musat o on top will
forever be leaking between boulders and sinking.

you shoulds of filled with gravel little sink with that, or filled
with plain dirt sprayed with water and compacted.

what you added was the worst choice you could of made.....

sorry to give you bad news......

What he did was not that bad. ?He can cover it with dirt as is. ?The
worst that will happen is refilling the settling hole several times
over the years. ?Putting sand down to filter down will require the
same thing so...

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well the company that built this tract of homes fillewd in a old hand
dug well in our back yard this way.

House built in 1950 well filled in with boulders at that time.

I moved here in 1972 and was told it was the neighborhood dirt dump,
and it was a big depression back then.

I got interested in filling it in about 1980 and added several
truckloads of topsoil. It continued o sink till 1990 or so.

do you really want a ongoing hassle for 10 or 20 years?

big rocks leave big voids, and the dirt washes in them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep. And having already filled it with rocks (size not specified) he
is already stuck with teh problem. Use sand, dirt, whatever, it is
not going to settle in with the first dump.

That is the truth of the matter but it is not the disaster you make it
out to be.

Harry K

The tank has been abandoned for at least 50 years (ie) no raw sewage
for 50 years The steel cover rotted. That's why it collapsed. I will
fill with sand and keep adding sand until it doesn't ettle anymore.
Then I will use topsoil. The lawn in that part of my yrd isn't the
greatest so I'm not concerned about how it will look. Only concerned
about safety.
M

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 02:22:42 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"J.A. Michel" wrote in message
I appreciate what you're saying, Ed. I don't really see any difference
weather the thing is in use or not, it's there.
The thing would be just as prone to cave in if it were in use right? Does
the fact that it's not in use
make it not safer than inuse? So what's the difference?

Pressure. If the tank is empty, the outside pressure on the walls is
greater than if the tank is filled. Greater pressure, greater chance of
cracking and collapsing. Depending on soil conditions, the empty tank can
even try to float if the ground was very wet after a long series of rainy
days.

Then there is methane. Empty tansk with some rotting stuff on the bottom
are prone to it. If you fell into a large tanks of crappy water, you may be
dusgustingly filthy but can get to the top and get out. If the empty tank
is filled with some quanity of methane, you can pass out, eventually die,
before you could get help. People have died going into abandoned tanks and
wells trying to help someone that has already passed out. About 10 years
ago, three brothers did exactly then. First one dropped, then the other
two went in to help and never came up.


Like I said, it's not a problem for me. I'm not
getting out the backhoe to go digging for problems. Yes, I will leave it
for the next owner, as it was left by a previous
owner for me. I will inform the next owner about it, not hiding nothing.
The previous owners did not bother to tell me about it......

For the sake of you and your family, I hope it never is a problem. There is
sound reasoning behind the regulations to fill them in.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 03:30:25 GMT, mstrspy wrote:

The tank has been abandoned for at least 50 years (ie) no raw sewage
for 50 years The steel cover rotted. That's why it collapsed. I will
fill with sand and keep adding sand until it doesn't ettle anymore.
Then I will use topsoil. The lawn in that part of my yrd isn't the
greatest so I'm not concerned about how it will look. Only concerned
about safety.
M

i THINK on Leno tonight it was, he gave the bare bones about a 75 year
old woman who was trying to put flowers on a grave, when the grave
collapsed and she fell in.

Of course that is a well-known issue, and I don't think the depth can
be as much.

That's why California requires a concrete cover over all caskets.

mm wrote:

i THINK on Leno tonight it was, he gave the bare bones about a 75 year
old woman who was trying to put flowers on a grave, when the grave
collapsed and she fell in.

On Apr 24, 2:23?am, Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply
wrote:
That's why California requires a concrete cover over all caskets.



mm wrote:

i THINK on Leno tonight it was, he gave the bare bones about a 75 year
old woman who was trying to put flowers on a grave, when the grave
collapsed and she fell in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

you could also just get a new steel plate, nice and heavy and replace
the cover. by the time its rusted out you probably wouldnt be around

I think if he sods it, a good estimate is maybe 3 rains and 2
waterings ie. about 3 months and it will stabilize forever. You are
way out of line on your concerns.



On 23 Apr 2007 04:33:50 -0700, "
wrote:

On Apr 22, 11:22?pm, deke wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:33:37 GMT, mstrspy wrote:
That's what I was thinking, sand, but I had no sand on hand this
weekend and needed to fill that hole with something.

A few years back, I found another similar hole but smaller. id the
same thing, filled it with bolders and I haven' seen any errosion.

I'm not sure why that other hole was there. Does a typical septic
system have two chambers spread appart?

On 22 Apr 2007 19:21:13 -0700, Joe wrote:

mstrspy wrote:
I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,

snip

This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders.

Really, really bad idea. Before going further, get a load of sand
(that's SAND!) and start filling it. Bank run gravel may settle
eventually, but sand will compact between the rocks many times faster.
Keep it a foot below grade until next summer, then do the topsoil and
grass seed routine.

HTH

Joe

hat you did was fine. Excellent in fact.
ust put 6 inches of
topsoil and grass sod over your 6 inch deep depression for now and
then add sand or topsoil as it continues to settle over the next few
years.

You know our land is continually moving and corrections have to be
made even in those places where there was no hole. Telephone poles
and fences show leaning posts after just a very few years and animals
such as moles, gophers, ground hogs and armadillos change our
landscape.
y neighbors buy a couple of cubic yards of sandy loam
to level their places again.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

big boulders bad, as the dirt he planned putting on top filters down
it migrates into the old leach field, and requires continiuos
replacement.

lots of old septic tanks were reused as a leach field for downspout
drains. hopefully thats not the case here.

abandoned and forgotten septic tanks and pits left over from sewer
disposal are pretty common.

these were abandoned long before laws were enacted on proper disposal.

my best friend uses his old tank for downspout water disposal. I saw
in the tank recently his dad filled it with garbage when it was taken
out of service over 50 years ago. he dug it up to check the lid, which
was still in remarkably good condition for its over 100 year age.

my buddy was concerned the lid might be rotting.

truckload of sand way cheaper than bags

On Apr 24, 8:12�am, jiml wrote:
*I think if he sods it, a good estimate is maybe 3 rains and 2
waterings ie. about 3 months and it will stabilize forever. * You are
way out of line on your concerns.

On 23 Apr 2007 04:33:50 -0700, "
wrote:



On Apr 22, 11:22?pm, deke wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:33:37 GMT, mstrspy wrote:
That's what I was thinking, sand, but I had no sand on hand this
weekend and needed to fill that hole with something.

A few years back, I found another similar hole but smaller. *id the
same thing, filled it with bolders and I haven' seen any errosion.

I'm not sure why that other hole was there. Does a typical septic
system have two chambers spread appart?

On 22 Apr 2007 19:21:13 -0700, Joe wrote:

mstrspy wrote:
I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,

snip

This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders.

Really, really bad idea. Before going further, get a load of sand
(that's SAND!) and start filling it. Bank run gravel may settle
eventually, but sand will compact between the rocks many times faster.
Keep it a foot below grade until next summer, then do the topsoil and
grass seed routine.

HTH

Joe

*hat you did was fine. *Excellent in fact.
ust put 6 inches of
topsoil and grass sod over your 6 inch deep depression for now and
then add sand or topsoil as it continues to settle over the next few
years.

You know our land is continually moving and corrections have to be
made even in those places where there was no hole. *Telephone poles
and fences show leaning posts after just a very few years and animals
such as moles, gophers, ground hogs and armadillos change our
landscape. *
y neighbors buy a couple of cubic yards of sandy loam
to level their places again.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

big boulders bad, as the dirt he planned putting on top filters down
it migrates into the old leach field, and requires continiuos
replacement.

lots of old septic tanks were reused as a leach field for downspout
drains. hopefully thats not the case here.

abandoned and forgotten septic tanks and pits left over from sewer
disposal are pretty common.

these were abandoned long before laws were enacted on proper disposal.

my best friend uses his old tank for downspout water disposal. I saw
in the tank recently his dad filled it with garbage when it was taken
out of service over 50 years ago. he dug it up to check the lid, which
was still in remarkably good condition for its over 100 year age.

my buddy was concerned the lid might be rotting.

truckload of sand way cheaper than bags- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your wrong

My home was built on farmland in 1950/ A hand dug well was in my back
yard and filled with rock and boulders at that time 1950. a neighbor
watched it being filled in.......

I moved here in 1972 and it was still the neighborhood dirt dump site
and continued to be till the 1990s. I added many truckloads of dirt to
finally stabilize it.

The water tends to carry the fill away. Note the OP tank had water in
it draining no doubt to the original field.

Just dump dirt boulders in there and it will endlessely sink

"mstrspy" wrote in message
news
The tank has been abandoned for at least 50 years (ie) no raw sewage
for 50 years The steel cover rotted. That's why it collapsed. I will
fill with sand and keep adding sand until it doesn't ettle anymore.
Then I will use topsoil. The lawn in that part of my yrd isn't the
greatest so I'm not concerned about how it will look. Only concerned
about safety.
M

The boulders will give a margin of safety compared to a big hole that you'd
not be able to climb out of. Boulders piled near the top prevent you from
falling very far.

On Apr 24, 8:12�am, jiml wrote:
*I think if he sods it, a good estimate is maybe 3 rains and 2
waterings ie. about 3 months and it will stabilize forever. * You are
way out of line on your concerns.

On 23 Apr 2007 04:33:50 -0700, "
wrote:



On Apr 22, 11:22?pm, deke wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:33:37 GMT, mstrspy wrote:
That's what I was thinking, sand, but I had no sand on hand this
weekend and needed to fill that hole with something.

A few years back, I found another similar hole but smaller. *id the
same thing, filled it with bolders and I haven' seen any errosion.

I'm not sure why that other hole was there. Does a typical septic
system have two chambers spread appart?

On 22 Apr 2007 19:21:13 -0700, Joe wrote:

mstrspy wrote:
I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,

snip

This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders.

Really, really bad idea. Before going further, get a load of sand
(that's SAND!) and start filling it. Bank run gravel may settle
eventually, but sand will compact between the rocks many times faster.
Keep it a foot below grade until next summer, then do the topsoil and
grass seed routine.

HTH

Joe

*hat you did was fine. *Excellent in fact.
ust put 6 inches of
topsoil and grass sod over your 6 inch deep depression for now and
then add sand or topsoil as it continues to settle over the next few
years.

You know our land is continually moving and corrections have to be
made even in those places where there was no hole. *Telephone poles
and fences show leaning posts after just a very few years and animals
such as moles, gophers, ground hogs and armadillos change our
landscape. *
y neighbors buy a couple of cubic yards of sandy loam
to level their places again.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

big boulders bad, as the dirt he planned putting on top filters down
it migrates into the old leach field, and requires continiuos
replacement.

lots of old septic tanks were reused as a leach field for downspout
drains. hopefully thats not the case here.

abandoned and forgotten septic tanks and pits left over from sewer
disposal are pretty common.

these were abandoned long before laws were enacted on proper disposal.

my best friend uses his old tank for downspout water disposal. I saw
in the tank recently his dad filled it with garbage when it was taken
out of service over 50 years ago. he dug it up to check the lid, which
was still in remarkably good condition for its over 100 year age.

my buddy was concerned the lid might be rotting.

truckload of sand way cheaper than bags- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

mine sank from 1950 till 1990, it was a hand dug well.

On Apr 24, 1:24 pm, " wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:12?am, jiml wrote:





?I think if he sods it, a good estimate is maybe 3 rains and 2
waterings ie. about 3 months and it will stabilize forever. ? You are
way out of line on your concerns.

On 23 Apr 2007 04:33:50 -0700, "
wrote:

On Apr 22, 11:22?pm, deke wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:33:37 GMT, mstrspy wrote:
That's what I was thinking, sand, but I had no sand on hand this
weekend and needed to fill that hole with something.

A few years back, I found another similar hole but smaller. ?id the
same thing, filled it with bolders and I haven' seen any errosion.

I'm not sure why that other hole was there. Does a typical septic
system have two chambers spread appart?

On 22 Apr 2007 19:21:13 -0700, Joe wrote:

mstrspy wrote:
I recently discovered a small hole in my back yard filled with water,

snip

This past weekend I filled the hole with rocks and bolders.

Really, really bad idea. Before going further, get a load of sand
(that's SAND!) and start filling it. Bank run gravel may settle
eventually, but sand will compact between the rocks many times faster.
Keep it a foot below grade until next summer, then do the topsoil and
grass seed routine.

HTH

Joe

?hat you did was fine. ?Excellent in fact.
ust put 6 inches of
topsoil and grass sod over your 6 inch deep depression for now and
then add sand or topsoil as it continues to settle over the next few
years.

You know our land is continually moving and corrections have to be
made even in those places where there was no hole. ?Telephone poles
and fences show leaning posts after just a very few years and animals
such as moles, gophers, ground hogs and armadillos change our
landscape. ?
y neighbors buy a couple of cubic yards of sandy loam
to level their places again.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

big boulders bad, as the dirt he planned putting on top filters down
it migrates into the old leach field, and requires continiuos
replacement.

lots of old septic tanks were reused as a leach field for downspout
drains. hopefully thats not the case here.

abandoned and forgotten septic tanks and pits left over from sewer
disposal are pretty common.

these were abandoned long before laws were enacted on proper disposal.

my best friend uses his old tank for downspout water disposal. I saw
in the tank recently his dad filled it with garbage when it was taken
out of service over 50 years ago. he dug it up to check the lid, which
was still in remarkably good condition for its over 100 year age.

my buddy was concerned the lid might be rotting.

truckload of sand way cheaper than bags- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your wrong

My home was built on farmland in 1950/ A hand dug well was in my back
yard and filled with rock and boulders at that time 1950. a neighbor
watched it being filled in.......

I moved here in 1972 and it was still the neighborhood dirt dump site
and continued to be till the 1990s. I added many truckloads of dirt to
finally stabilize it.

The water tends to carry the fill away. Note the OP tank had water in
it draining no doubt to the original field.

Just dump dirt boulders in there and it will endlessely sink- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So you think you have water running through the bottom washing the
dirt out? See any difference between that and an abandonded septic
tank?

If it is as bad as you say it is, why haven't you fixed it? Dig down
a couple feet and pour a concrete cap is one quick and easy solution.

Harry K