This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I need to
wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty, short
person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the house
because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said I should
call an electrician. What's that all about?

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same time
to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without interference?

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A to
point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams to stay
out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it doesn't double
the cost.)

4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets. Should
this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to deal with
later?

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

CATV installers often do not snake wires or run them internally. They can be
run with Cat5 and terminated on the same wall plate. Electricians and alarm
companies often run these cables, snaked in walls . All your cables should
be home runs to a designated point, usually where the main line comes to the
building. Are your non grounded cables non metallic, and how did you
determine that they have no grounds?



"Crabshell" wrote in message
...
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I need
to
wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty, short
person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the house
because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said I should
call an electrician. What's that all about?

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same time
to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without interference?

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A to
point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams to stay
out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it doesn't double
the cost.)

4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets. Should
this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to deal with
later?

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

Answered inline for clarity


"Crabshell" wrote in message
...
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I need
to
wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty, short
person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the house
because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said I should
call an electrician. What's that all about?

It is called a lazy installer. Assuming you are putting boxes in the wall
this does require some careful measuring and moderate difficulty pulling the
wire.

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same time
to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without interference?

Coax and cat5 are fine side by side. They can terminate in the same box.
You can even buy face plates that have a cable/ network or phone jack.

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A to
point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams to stay
out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it doesn't double
the cost.)

Direct lines are fine if supported. Along structual members or perpindicular
to joists is the preferred method. Note that all cable runs should serve
only one outlet (called home run) and should run from the point of entry to
the oulet. I actually prefer to run my phone lines in this manner also but
they are frequently ran in a series (from box to box).

If you are thinking you might want a wired network you should home run each
cat5 box to a central loacation where you can then configure the wires as
you see fit. Note that it not reccommended to use the same cat5 wire for a
data network and POTS. If you are thinking network or other communication
equipment this termination point should not be in the crawlspace (a closet
is good)


4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets. Should
this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to deal with
later?

That is a whole different ballgame. Do one project at a time.

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

In all fairness to cable installers, they are not necessarily "lazy
installers". It is often cable company policy not to do internal
installations as it would take to much time and simply cost to much


"Colbyt" wrote in message
...
Answered inline for clarity


"Crabshell" wrote in message
...
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I need
to
wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty, short
person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the house
because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said I should
call an electrician. What's that all about?

It is called a lazy installer. Assuming you are putting boxes in the wall
this does require some careful measuring and moderate difficulty pulling
the wire.

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same time
to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without interference?

Coax and cat5 are fine side by side. They can terminate in the same box.
You can even buy face plates that have a cable/ network or phone jack.

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A to
point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams to
stay
out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it doesn't double
the cost.)

Direct lines are fine if supported. Along structual members or
perpindicular to joists is the preferred method. Note that all cable runs
should serve only one outlet (called home run) and should run from the
point of entry to the oulet. I actually prefer to run my phone lines in
this manner also but they are frequently ran in a series (from box to
box).

If you are thinking you might want a wired network you should home run
each cat5 box to a central loacation where you can then configure the
wires as you see fit. Note that it not reccommended to use the same cat5
wire for a data network and POTS. If you are thinking network or other
communication equipment this termination point should not be in the
crawlspace (a closet is good)


4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets. Should
this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to deal with
later?

That is a whole different ballgame. Do one project at a time.

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
news
In all fairness to cable installers, they are not necessarily "lazy
installers". It is often cable company policy not to do internal
installations as it would take to much time and simply cost to much


Our cable company states they charge extra to run the wiring in the walls if
you want it done that way.

Crabshell wrote:
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I need to
wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty, short
person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the house
because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said I should
call an electrician. What's that all about?

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same time
to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without interference?

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A to
point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams to stay
out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it doesn't double
the cost.)

4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets. Should
this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to deal with
later?

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

As others have written, there will be no interference between Ethernet
and coax. In theory, direct point-to-point wiring will provide the least
signal loss but inside the footprint of a small house there is probably
not going to be much loss anyway. While you are at it, instead of Cat-5
cable you may want to consider Cat-6 to be ready for future needs. Of
course gigabit Ethernet equipment has come down greatly in price already
so right now might be the time to start using it. I'm seriously
considering re-pulling all of my Cat-5 before closing up the last
openings in the basement.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

It's a lot more work, it should cost more. You're lucky you even have the
option



"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
ink.net...

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
news
In all fairness to cable installers, they are not necessarily "lazy
installers". It is often cable company policy not to do internal
installations as it would take to much time and simply cost to much


Our cable company states they charge extra to run the wiring in the walls
if you want it done that way.

Unless you have a network of computers in your house, that regularly
transfer massive files,between themselves, you're wasting your time as your
bottleneck is in your internet connection, which is good for maybe 15
mega-bits per second





"John McGaw" wrote in message
. ..
Crabshell wrote:
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I need
to wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty, short
person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the house
because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said I should
call an electrician. What's that all about? 2) I figure I should run
CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same time to be proactive. Can
they coexist side by side without interference?

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A to
point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams to
stay out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it doesn't
double the cost.)

4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets. Should
this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to deal with
later?

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

As others have written, there will be no interference between Ethernet and
coax. In theory, direct point-to-point wiring will provide the least
signal loss but inside the footprint of a small house there is probably
not going to be much loss anyway. While you are at it, instead of Cat-5
cable you may want to consider Cat-6 to be ready for future needs. Of
course gigabit Ethernet equipment has come down greatly in price already
so right now might be the time to start using it. I'm seriously
considering re-pulling all of my Cat-5 before closing up the last openings
in the basement.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

"Crabshell" wrote in message
...
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I need
to
wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty, short
person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the house
because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said I should
call an electrician. What's that all about?

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same time
to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without interference?

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A to
point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams to stay
out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it doesn't double
the cost.)

4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets. Should
this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to deal with
later?

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

The other posters covered 1-3 well. I might add that you should use a cable
amplifier with 4 or 8 outputs and run one to each room where you can then
use a splitter. Avoid using splitters at all cost in the basic distribution
system and you will have a better picture all around. If you only went to
one or two TVs then a splitter would be fine but people rarely have such
simple networs anymore. A splitter in one spot or a two way amplifier is
needed if you have cable internet.

Splitters don't add noise (at least not white noise) but they divide the
signal until it is competing with the noise and can no longer be reliably
detected by the tuner. This usually turns up on some channels first as
ghosting or patterned snow.

4. No not at the same time, you don't even want the AC wires close to your
network or cable wires if you can help it. Rewiring ground is best done one
room at a time as you gut and remodel these rooms. I suggest adding a GFCI
to the ungrounded outlets you want a ground hole on for extra protection.
Its not a direct substitute for a safety ground but does provide some
overlapping protection against shorts to ground.

Now if you had the walls open for some reason, then yes, put in every type
of wire you think you might ever need.

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:32:15 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

In all fairness to cable installers, they are not necessarily "lazy
installers". It is often cable company policy not to do internal
installations as it would take to much time and simply cost to much

My brother had me wait for the Verizon cable installer in Dallas, who
refused to put the computer cable in the room my brother wanted it.
It was partially prewired to several rooms and he did go in the
unfinished attic and connect a couple things.

When I discussed this at a Baltimore hamfest with a computer cable guy
(that is, a public relations guy with a booth.), he insisted that they
would put it whereever the customer wanted it, and the guy in Dallas
should have also.

I don't think he was trying to sell me anything, because I'd made it
pretty clear I wasn't in the market. In addition, it would be easy in
my house to put in anywhere.

#2. Not only ok to run side by side, but you can buy it as one cable.

http://www.cyberxlink.com/product_in...5c46b62290a5af

#3. Ok to go point to point if it doesn't interfere with other things.
Avoid running parallel to electrical cables.

--
Steve Barker



"Crabshell" wrote in message
...

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same time
to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without interference?

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A to
point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams to stay
out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it doesn't double
the cost.)

According to my inspector, the electrical outlets have no ground. Most
of the outlets around the house are 2-prong. He said even the few 3
prong plugs are not connected to a ground.



"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in
:

CATV installers often do not snake wires or run them internally. They
can be run with Cat5 and terminated on the same wall plate.
Electricians and alarm companies often run these cables, snaked in
walls . All your cables should be home runs to a designated point,
usually where the main line comes to the building. Are your non
grounded cables non metallic, and how did you determine that they have
no grounds?



"Crabshell" wrote in message
...
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I
need to
wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty, short
person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the
house because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said
I should call an electrician. What's that all about?

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same
time to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without
interference?

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A
to point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams
to stay out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it
doesn't double the cost.)

4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets.
Should this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to
deal with later?

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

"Colbyt" wrote in
:

Answered inline for clarity


"Crabshell" wrote in message
...
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I
need to
wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty, short
person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Mostly I was going to use the cat5 for the POTS. I assumed every line had
to run to a central location vs series. Series may be easier/more
efficient. The network can run wireless I'm thinking...

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the
house because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said
I should call an electrician. What's that all about?

It is called a lazy installer. Assuming you are putting boxes in the
wall this does require some careful measuring and moderate difficulty
pulling the wire.

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same
time to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without
interference?

Coax and cat5 are fine side by side. They can terminate in the same
box. You can even buy face plates that have a cable/ network or phone
jack.

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A
to point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams
to stay out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it
doesn't double the cost.)

Direct lines are fine if supported. Along structual members or
perpindicular to joists is the preferred method. Note that all cable
runs should serve only one outlet (called home run) and should run
from the point of entry to the oulet. I actually prefer to run my
phone lines in this manner also but they are frequently ran in a
series (from box to box).

If you are thinking you might want a wired network you should home run
each cat5 box to a central loacation where you can then configure the
wires as you see fit. Note that it not reccommended to use the same
cat5 wire for a data network and POTS. If you are thinking network or
other communication equipment this termination point should not be in
the crawlspace (a closet is good)


4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets.
Should this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to
deal with later?

That is a whole different ballgame. Do one project at a time.

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

He (installer) offered to run it through the exterior wall but discouraged
that. I already have one hole in the brick where the AC lines run into the
house so I figured I'd use the same hole for the coax then get out the
expanding foam...


"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in
:

It's a lot more work, it should cost more. You're lucky you even have
the option



"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
ink.net...

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
news
In all fairness to cable installers, they are not necessarily "lazy
installers". It is often cable company policy not to do internal
installations as it would take to much time and simply cost to much


Our cable company states they charge extra to run the wiring in the
walls if you want it done that way.

John McGaw wrote in
:

Crabshell wrote:
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I
need to wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam
house with limited attic space -- an attic install would require a
hearty, short person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the
house because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said
I should call an electrician. What's that all about?

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same
time to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without
interference?

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A
to point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams
to stay out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it
doesn't double the cost.)

4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets.
Should this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to
deal with later?

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

As others have written, there will be no interference between Ethernet
and coax. In theory, direct point-to-point wiring will provide the
least signal loss but inside the footprint of a small house there is
probably not going to be much loss anyway. While you are at it,
instead of Cat-5 cable you may want to consider Cat-6 to be ready for
future needs. Of course gigabit Ethernet equipment has come down
greatly in price already so right now might be the time to start using
it. I'm seriously considering re-pulling all of my Cat-5 before
closing up the last openings in the basement.




Mostly I'm using the CAT5 for POTS -- but I thought the extra capability
would be worth running that instead of CAT3. I've heard about CAT 6 and
will price that. If it's not too much higher then that may be the way to
go. However, if it's being used for the phone then I assume each line has
to be run to the main phone block, so it may not be worth considering for a
network run.

"PipeDown" wrote in
news

"Crabshell" wrote in message
...
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I
need to
wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty, short
person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the
house because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said
I should call an electrician. What's that all about?

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same
time to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without
interference?

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A
to point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams
to stay out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it
doesn't double the cost.)

4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets.
Should this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to
deal with later?

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

The other posters covered 1-3 well. I might add that you should use a
cable amplifier with 4 or 8 outputs and run one to each room where you
can then use a splitter. Avoid using splitters at all cost in the
basic distribution system and you will have a better picture all
around. If you only went to one or two TVs then a splitter would be
fine but people rarely have such simple networs anymore. A splitter
in one spot or a two way amplifier is needed if you have cable
internet.

Splitters don't add noise (at least not white noise) but they divide
the signal until it is competing with the noise and can no longer be
reliably detected by the tuner. This usually turns up on some
channels first as ghosting or patterned snow.

4. No not at the same time, you don't even want the AC wires close to
your network or cable wires if you can help it. Rewiring ground is
best done one room at a time as you gut and remodel these rooms. I
suggest adding a GFCI to the ungrounded outlets you want a ground hole
on for extra protection. Its not a direct substitute for a safety
ground but does provide some overlapping protection against shorts to
ground.

Now if you had the walls open for some reason, then yes, put in every
type of wire you think you might ever need.





What the heck does a cable amplifier do? I figured I'd need a cable box in
every room I want to watch TV in.

I figured I would run a single cable from the entry point into the home to
a single location in each room. Do I need something more than that?

If I want cable internet some day vs dsl should I do a double coax run to
at least one room and run the wireless connection from there? I can't see
needing a home network where every room is on ethernet, but now that I
think about it, I guess having a double coax run in every room along with
cat 5 allows me the freedom to set up the network hub anywhere in the
house, right? Ir is there some other reason for this? I feel like this is
going to be overkill at some piont but again I'd like to do it right.
Besides, if I run ethernet throughout the house it still all has to meet at
a central location -- wherever that is.

mm wrote in
:

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:32:15 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

In all fairness to cable installers, they are not necessarily "lazy
installers". It is often cable company policy not to do internal
installations as it would take to much time and simply cost to much

My brother had me wait for the Verizon cable installer in Dallas, who
refused to put the computer cable in the room my brother wanted it.
It was partially prewired to several rooms and he did go in the
unfinished attic and connect a couple things.

When I discussed this at a Baltimore hamfest with a computer cable guy
(that is, a public relations guy with a booth.), he insisted that they
would put it whereever the customer wanted it, and the guy in Dallas
should have also.

I don't think he was trying to sell me anything, because I'd made it
pretty clear I wasn't in the market. In addition, it would be easy in
my house to put in anywhere.


I'm in Dallas. Must be something in the water....

That in itself does not verify that there is no ground in the cable, only
that it is not attached to the outlet. What are the cables made of? what
year was the house built?



"crabshell" wrote in message
...
According to my inspector, the electrical outlets have no ground. Most
of the outlets around the house are 2-prong. He said even the few 3
prong plugs are not connected to a ground.



"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in
:

CATV installers often do not snake wires or run them internally. They
can be run with Cat5 and terminated on the same wall plate.
Electricians and alarm companies often run these cables, snaked in
walls . All your cables should be home runs to a designated point,
usually where the main line comes to the building. Are your non
grounded cables non metallic, and how did you determine that they have
no grounds?



"Crabshell" wrote in message
...
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I
need to
wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty, short
person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the
house because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said
I should call an electrician. What's that all about?

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same
time to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without
interference?

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A
to point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams
to stay out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it
doesn't double the cost.)

4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets.
Should this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to
deal with later?

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

"crabshell" wrote in message
...
(snip)

What the heck does a cable amplifier do? I figured I'd need a cable box
in
every room I want to watch TV in.

Cable as in 'coax cable'- a seperate issue from the decoder box. It
amplifies trhe signal stength of whatever is going down the wire. I've never
had any luck with them, personally.

I figured I would run a single cable from the entry point into the home to
a single location in each room. Do I need something more than that?

If I want cable internet some day vs dsl should I do a double coax run to
at least one room and run the wireless connection from there? I can't see
needing a home network where every room is on ethernet, but now that I
think about it, I guess having a double coax run in every room along with
cat 5 allows me the freedom to set up the network hub anywhere in the
house, right?
Coax hasn't been used for ethernet for years. An extra cat5 run to each
room, from wherever the cable modem/router is, or just get a wireless cable
modem/router, and a card for each PC. Most cable internet companies assume
wireless these days, and discourage wired systems. Makes life easier for
them.

Ir is there some other reason for this? I feel like this is
going to be overkill at some piont but again I'd like to do it right.
Besides, if I run ethernet throughout the house it still all has to meet
at
a central location -- wherever that is.


If you want wired ethernet, yeah, they need to be 'home run' to a central
point. A wall-mount router or hub next to the telephone wiring, which should
also be home-run instead of point-to-point, and then an upstream link to the
server or cable modem.

aem sends...

"crabshell" wrote in message
...
"PipeDown" wrote in
news What the heck does a cable amplifier do? I figured I'd need a cable box
in
every room I want to watch TV in.

I figured I would run a single cable from the entry point into the home to
a single location in each room. Do I need something more than that?

If I want cable internet some day vs dsl should I do a double coax run to
at least one room and run the wireless connection from there? I can't see
needing a home network where every room is on ethernet, but now that I
think about it, I guess having a double coax run in every room along with
cat 5 allows me the freedom to set up the network hub anywhere in the
house, right? Ir is there some other reason for this? I feel like this
is
going to be overkill at some piont but again I'd like to do it right.
Besides, if I run ethernet throughout the house it still all has to meet
at
a central location -- wherever that is.



Properly installed coax runs normally do not need an amplifier unless there
are more than 5 outlets per house. That number may vary from different
providers based on the signal they push down the wire. Generally the cable
company will sell and install an approved unit at a nominal cost if you need
one. It is normally ageist their TOS for you to install an unapproved
amplifier on their system.

Running the second cable to one room or a closet might be a good choice
since you have no basement. If you have enough wire and want to run it to
more than one room.that is okay also. The internet connection is split off
the main line at the entry point and it and the TV signals travel separate
lines.

The last time I bought this stuff, 11-04, I bought 1000 feet of cat5 and 500
feet of coax for $130 including tax. Overall wire is higher now but there
is not a lot of copper in either of these. I completely did a small house
and have enough left over for a couple of more. What I am saying is that if
you buy it right, it may not matter how much you use. The labor is
virtually the same either way.

Colbyt

Avoid series runs for POTS, its way harder to troubleshoot when you
have a problem, homeruns are the way to go!

Consider satellite for TV with its DVR digital video recorder service,

Elminates having to watch commercials ! it changes how you watch TV
forever

1959. The wires are copper with plastic insulation. Only 2 wires go to
each outlet.


"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in
:

That in itself does not verify that there is no ground in the cable,
only that it is not attached to the outlet. What are the cables made
of? what year was the house built?



"crabshell" wrote in message
...
According to my inspector, the electrical outlets have no ground.
Most of the outlets around the house are 2-prong. He said even the
few 3 prong plugs are not connected to a ground.



"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in
:

CATV installers often do not snake wires or run them internally.
They can be run with Cat5 and terminated on the same wall plate.
Electricians and alarm companies often run these cables, snaked in
walls . All your cables should be home runs to a designated point,
usually where the main line comes to the building. Are your non
grounded cables non metallic, and how did you determine that they
have no grounds?



"Crabshell" wrote in message
...
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I
need to
wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty,
short person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the
house because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He
said I should call an electrician. What's that all about?

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the
same time to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without
interference?

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point
A to point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and
beams to stay out of the way? (I like to do things the right way
if it doesn't double the cost.)

4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets.
Should this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess
to deal with later?

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:23:00 GMT, "PipeDown"
wrote:

[snip]


The other posters covered 1-3 well. I might add that you should use a cable
amplifier with 4 or 8 outputs

Which is probably an amplifier connected to a 1:4 or 1:8 splitter in
the same package. This splitter will be a splitter like any other.

and run one to each room where you can then
use a splitter. Avoid using splitters at all cost in the basic distribution
system

don't use a splitter, use a splitter instead :-)

and you will have a better picture all around. If you only went to
one or two TVs then a splitter would be fine but people rarely have such
simple networs anymore. A splitter in one spot or a two way amplifier is
needed if you have cable internet.


You may not need an amplifier for the cable modem itself (the modem
may even work better without one). Use a splitter on the incoming
cable. Then the amplifier will be used only for cable.

[snip]
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

"Colbyt" wrote in
m:


"crabshell" wrote in message
...
"PipeDown" wrote in
news What the heck does a cable amplifier do? I figured I'd need a cable
box in
every room I want to watch TV in.

I figured I would run a single cable from the entry point into the
home to a single location in each room. Do I need something more
than that?

If I want cable internet some day vs dsl should I do a double coax
run to at least one room and run the wireless connection from there?
I can't see needing a home network where every room is on ethernet,
but now that I think about it, I guess having a double coax run in
every room along with cat 5 allows me the freedom to set up the
network hub anywhere in the house, right? Ir is there some other
reason for this? I feel like this is
going to be overkill at some piont but again I'd like to do it right.
Besides, if I run ethernet throughout the house it still all has to
meet at
a central location -- wherever that is.



Properly installed coax runs normally do not need an amplifier unless
there are more than 5 outlets per house. That number may vary from
different providers based on the signal they push down the wire.
Generally the cable company will sell and install an approved unit at
a nominal cost if you need one. It is normally ageist their TOS for
you to install an unapproved amplifier on their system.

Running the second cable to one room or a closet might be a good
choice since you have no basement. If you have enough wire and want to
run it to more than one room.that is okay also. The internet
connection is split off the main line at the entry point and it and
the TV signals travel separate lines.

The last time I bought this stuff, 11-04, I bought 1000 feet of cat5
and 500 feet of coax for $130 including tax. Overall wire is higher
now but there is not a lot of copper in either of these. I completely
did a small house and have enough left over for a couple of more. What
I am saying is that if you buy it right, it may not matter how much
you use. The labor is virtually the same either way.

Colbyt




The labor issue is a big concern. I was sort of assuming the variable
expense would be in the materials more than the labor. I assume that
running 2 lines from point A to point B vs. 1 costs about the same.
Meaning I need to plan this well so I don't have to have more lines run
down the road -- thus my inquiries.

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:37:52 -0500, crabshell
wrote:

[snip]


What the heck does a cable amplifier do? I figured I'd need a cable box in
every room I want to watch TV in.

I figured I would run a single cable from the entry point into the home to
a single location in each room. Do I need something more than that?


In that case, you will need a big splitter at that single location.
Splitters divide the signal so you get a weaker signal at each
location. It may be too low, requiring an amplifier ahead of the
splitter (better than amplifying each output separately). A 4 or 8
output amp is just an amp and a splitter in the same package.

Connect a cable modem before the amp.

If I want cable internet some day vs dsl should I do a double coax run to
at least one room and run the wireless connection from there?

Best to have your cable modem and router at this central location, and
use CAT5 for distribution. It can be run alongside the cable to each
room.

You mentioned wireless. A wired network will be simpler, faster, more
secure, easier to set up (referring to computer configuration), and
more reliable. When you're installing cable it would be a good time to
put in network cables too.

I can't see
needing a home network where every room is on ethernet, but now that I
think about it, I guess having a double coax run in every room along with
cat 5 allows me the freedom to set up the network hub anywhere in the
house, right?

No, because the CAT5 cables will all be run to one point. It's a good
idea to put the network hub (along with modem and router) at the same
location as the cable distribution point. Use that for telephone too.

Ir is there some other reason for this? I feel like this is
going to be overkill at some piont but again I'd like to do it right.
Besides, if I run ethernet throughout the house it still all has to meet at
a central location -- wherever that is.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

On 24 Jun 2006 05:58:00 -0700, "
wrote:

Avoid series runs for POTS, its way harder to troubleshoot when you
have a problem, homeruns are the way to go!

Consider satellite for TV with its DVR digital video recorder service,

Elminates having to watch commercials ! it changes how you watch TV
forever

YES! And there's a lot to that besides commercials (although it IS
nice to be able to skip over some of the more offensive ones).

BTW, I've had a DVR for about 7 years and often don't know the time
what I'm watching is on, or what channel.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:14:39 -0500, crabshell
wrote:

mm wrote in
:

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:32:15 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

In all fairness to cable installers, they are not necessarily "lazy
installers". It is often cable company policy not to do internal
installations as it would take to much time and simply cost to much

My brother had me wait for the Verizon cable installer in Dallas, who
refused to put the computer cable in the room my brother wanted it.
It was partially prewired to several rooms and he did go in the
unfinished attic and connect a couple things.

When I discussed this at a Baltimore hamfest with a computer cable guy

Forgot to say that this was also a Verizon guy. He really seemed
bothered that they didn't do a good job in Dallas.

(that is, a public relations guy with a booth.), he insisted that they
would put it whereever the customer wanted it, and the guy in Dallas
should have also.

I don't think he was trying to sell me anything, because I'd made it
pretty clear I wasn't in the market. In addition, it would be easy in
my house to put in anywhere.


I'm in Dallas. Must be something in the water....

The Dallas guy suggested calling someone else to install it, at my
brother's cost.

Since labor is likely to take the lion's share of your money, I'd
seriously consider having an electrician take a look at your house and
see what it would take to install grounded sockets, perhaps upgrade the
service and add circuits where needed. Then the cost of doing the
signal wiring at the same time will be minimized. I'd worry more about
the electrical than the data.

Crabshell wrote:
This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes. I need to
wire the house for cable (TV). This is a peer and beam house with
limited attic space -- an attic install would require a hearty, short
person with a tolerance for blown insulation.

Questions:

1) The cable TV installer said he couldn't do the job under the house
because he needed some sort of right angle drill bit. He said I should
call an electrician. What's that all about?

2) I figure I should run CAT 5 cable along side the coax at the same time
to be proactive. Can they coexist side by side without interference?

3) Is it cool to run the lines straight under the house from point A to
point B or should they snake around the perimeter, walls and beams to stay
out of the way? (I like to do things the right way if it doesn't double
the cost.)

4) My house has no ground wires running to fixtures or outlets. Should
this be done at the same time or is that a whole other mess to deal with
later?

Thanks in advance,
Crabshell

with our Dish DVR it doesnt matter when the show is on, or what time it
gets moved too. the receiver automatically looks for the name and
adjusts itself.

shows magically appear on a list of available ones.

A hour of prime time shows is 15 minutes of commercials which we skip.
while a interesting scene or dirsurbance we can skip back and watch it
again. dogs barrked, phone rang neigbor stopped by.

DVR is THE BEST device we ever added here!

wrote:
with our Dish DVR it doesnt matter when the show is on, or what time it
gets moved too. the receiver automatically looks for the name and
adjusts itself.

shows magically appear on a list of available ones.

A hour of prime time shows is 15 minutes of commercials which we skip.
while a interesting scene or dirsurbance we can skip back and watch it
again. dogs barrked, phone rang neigbor stopped by.

DVR is THE BEST device we ever added here!


You must be watching old shows...

We have a DVR that I built which can remove commercials. It is not
unusual to see some hour programs reduced to 35 minutes.

"crabshell" wrote in message
...

The labor issue is a big concern. I was sort of assuming the variable
expense would be in the materials more than the labor. I assume that
running 2 lines from point A to point B vs. 1 costs about the same.
Meaning I need to plan this well so I don't have to have more lines run
down the road -- thus my inquiries.

Why can't you DIY? There are no licensing requirements since it all very
low voltage stuff.

I would be happy to explain the process. Tool needs are minimal.

I suspect you are going to have a real case of sticker shock when you get a
labor price. Nobody likes working in crawlspaces and most don't like
snaking wire inside walls.

Colbyt

On 24 Jun 2006 11:20:10 -0700, "
wrote:

with our Dish DVR it doesnt matter when the show is on, or what time it
gets moved too.

Or even what channel it's on, if set up properly on a DVR that
supports it. I don't know about Dish, but ReplayTV calls that feature
"theme channels" and TiVo calls it "wishlists".

the receiver automatically looks for the name and
adjusts itself.


Yes. Automatic channel selection on the receiver, is a necessary part
of what a DVR does.

shows magically appear on a list of available ones.


I wouldn't use the word "magically"*, but yes.

A hour of prime time shows is 15 minutes of commercials which we skip.

Approximately, on most channels. A PBS show is closer to 55 minutes
per hour.

while a interesting scene or dirsurbance we can skip back and watch it
again. dogs barrked, phone rang neigbor stopped by.


Also, TV shows and movies often involve things (signs, maps,...) you
could read if you got to look at them long enough. You can actually
read the wordy introductions to some movies.

BTW, I actually wished for something that would do that, for years
before DVRs existed.

DVR is THE BEST device we ever added here!

Yes. I've had one since 1999 and would NOT want to have to live
without one. About the only time I watch TV without a DVR now is when
I'm on the phone (or in a chat room) where people are discussing the
show in real time.

&&&

* - many times, "magic" (NOT referring to stage magic but the "real"
thing), and it's synonym "supernatural" are often used as excuses
rather than explanations. The words have little or no meaning
otherwise.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Colbyt wrote:


"crabshell" wrote in message
...

The labor issue is a big concern. I was sort of assuming the variable
expense would be in the materials more than the labor. I assume that
running 2 lines from point A to point B vs. 1 costs about the same.
Meaning I need to plan this well so I don't have to have more lines run
down the road -- thus my inquiries.

Why can't you DIY? There are no licensing requirements since it all very
low voltage stuff.

Depends on where you are. In CT one needs any of several classes of
electrician's license (which require 2000 hours of supervised, documented
work experience to get) or to be employed by a recognized telephone or
cable company to install low-voltage cabling. This does not apply to
homeowners working on their own residences.

I would be happy to explain the process. Tool needs are minimal.

I suspect you are going to have a real case of sticker shock when you get
a
labor price. Nobody likes working in crawlspaces and most don't like
snaking wire inside walls.

Colbyt

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 24 Jun 2006 11:20:10 -0700, "
wrote:

with our Dish DVR it doesnt matter when the show is on, or what time it
gets moved too.

Or even what channel it's on, if set up properly on a DVR that
supports it. I don't know about Dish, but ReplayTV calls that feature
"theme channels" and TiVo calls it "wishlists".

the receiver automatically looks for the name and
adjusts itself.


Yes. Automatic channel selection on the receiver, is a necessary part
of what a DVR does.

shows magically appear on a list of available ones.


I wouldn't use the word "magically"*, but yes.

A hour of prime time shows is 15 minutes of commercials which we skip.

Approximately, on most channels. A PBS show is closer to 55 minutes
per hour.

while a interesting scene or dirsurbance we can skip back and watch it
again. dogs barrked, phone rang neigbor stopped by.


Also, TV shows and movies often involve things (signs, maps,...) you
could read if you got to look at them long enough. You can actually
read the wordy introductions to some movies.

BTW, I actually wished for something that would do that, for years
before DVRs existed.

DVR is THE BEST device we ever added here!

Yes. I've had one since 1999 and would NOT want to have to live
without one. About the only time I watch TV without a DVR now is when
I'm on the phone (or in a chat room) where people are discussing the
show in real time.

&&&

* - many times, "magic" (NOT referring to stage magic but the "real"
thing), and it's synonym "supernatural" are often used as excuses
rather than explanations. The words have little or no meaning
otherwise.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

We start watching some shows like survivor 15 minutes after they begin.
This enables us to FF thru commercials and be caught up to live at end
of show.

Cant do that with a VCR

People without DVRs dont know what they are missing!

On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 17:57:11 -0400, George
wrote:

wrote:
with our Dish DVR it doesnt matter when the show is on, or what time it
gets moved too. the receiver automatically looks for the name and
adjusts itself.

shows magically appear on a list of available ones.

A hour of prime time shows is 15 minutes of commercials which we skip.
while a interesting scene or dirsurbance we can skip back and watch it
again. dogs barrked, phone rang neigbor stopped by.

DVR is THE BEST device we ever added here!


You must be watching old shows...


In most cases, the old shows are better.

We have a DVR that I built which can remove commercials. It is not
unusual to see some hour programs reduced to 35 minutes.

It varies by show, many shows I've edited commercials from are 42-45
minutes per hour (52-56 minutes for PBS shows).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

On 24 Jun 2006 16:29:35 -0700, "
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 24 Jun 2006 11:20:10 -0700, "
wrote:

with our Dish DVR it doesnt matter when the show is on, or what time it
gets moved too.

Or even what channel it's on, if set up properly on a DVR that
supports it. I don't know about Dish, but ReplayTV calls that feature
"theme channels" and TiVo calls it "wishlists".

the receiver automatically looks for the name and
adjusts itself.


Yes. Automatic channel selection on the receiver, is a necessary part
of what a DVR does.

shows magically appear on a list of available ones.


I wouldn't use the word "magically"*, but yes.

A hour of prime time shows is 15 minutes of commercials which we skip.

Approximately, on most channels. A PBS show is closer to 55 minutes
per hour.

while a interesting scene or dirsurbance we can skip back and watch it
again. dogs barrked, phone rang neigbor stopped by.


Also, TV shows and movies often involve things (signs, maps,...) you
could read if you got to look at them long enough. You can actually
read the wordy introductions to some movies.

BTW, I actually wished for something that would do that, for years
before DVRs existed.

DVR is THE BEST device we ever added here!

Yes. I've had one since 1999 and would NOT want to have to live
without one. About the only time I watch TV without a DVR now is when
I'm on the phone (or in a chat room) where people are discussing the
show in real time.

&&&

* - many times, "magic" (NOT referring to stage magic but the "real"
thing), and it's synonym "supernatural" are often used as excuses
rather than explanations. The words have little or no meaning
otherwise.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin


I guess you're using Outhouse Express

We start watching some shows like survivor 15 minutes after they begin.
This enables us to FF thru commercials and be caught up to live at end
of show.

Cant do that with a VCR


You actually can, by using 2 VCRs and switching between them. An
extremely complex, error prone, and non-worthwhile procedure.

People without DVRs dont know what they are missing!

And a lot won't believe it when you tell them.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

"Colbyt" wrote in
m:


"crabshell" wrote in message
...

The labor issue is a big concern. I was sort of assuming the
variable expense would be in the materials more than the labor. I
assume that running 2 lines from point A to point B vs. 1 costs about
the same. Meaning I need to plan this well so I don't have to have
more lines run down the road -- thus my inquiries.

Why can't you DIY? There are no licensing requirements since it all
very low voltage stuff.

I would be happy to explain the process. Tool needs are minimal.

I suspect you are going to have a real case of sticker shock when you
get a labor price. Nobody likes working in crawlspaces and most don't
like snaking wire inside walls.

Colbyt




Peer and beam is pretty common around here so the expense shouldn't be too
great. I'm not crazy about nosing around in my crawlspace. My attic is
even worse. Only 4 feet of clearance in the very center and blown
insulation everywhere. I'd love to get rid of that and start over with
sheet. Another post perhaps...

Look what I started. I hardly have time to watch TV. In fact my attic
antenna is looking better every day. The uncompressed signal looks
great...



Mark Lloyd wrote in
:

On 24 Jun 2006 16:29:35 -0700, "
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 24 Jun 2006 11:20:10 -0700, "
wrote:

with our Dish DVR it doesnt matter when the show is on, or what
time it gets moved too.

Or even what channel it's on, if set up properly on a DVR that
supports it. I don't know about Dish, but ReplayTV calls that
feature "theme channels" and TiVo calls it "wishlists".

the receiver automatically looks for the name and
adjusts itself.


Yes. Automatic channel selection on the receiver, is a necessary
part of what a DVR does.

shows magically appear on a list of available ones.


I wouldn't use the word "magically"*, but yes.

A hour of prime time shows is 15 minutes of commercials which we
skip.

Approximately, on most channels. A PBS show is closer to 55 minutes
per hour.

while a interesting scene or dirsurbance we can skip back and watch
it again. dogs barrked, phone rang neigbor stopped by.


Also, TV shows and movies often involve things (signs, maps,...) you
could read if you got to look at them long enough. You can actually
read the wordy introductions to some movies.

BTW, I actually wished for something that would do that, for years
before DVRs existed.

DVR is THE BEST device we ever added here!

Yes. I've had one since 1999 and would NOT want to have to live
without one. About the only time I watch TV without a DVR now is
when I'm on the phone (or in a chat room) where people are
discussing the show in real time.

&&&

* - many times, "magic" (NOT referring to stage magic but the "real"
thing), and it's synonym "supernatural" are often used as excuses
rather than explanations. The words have little or no meaning
otherwise.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin


I guess you're using Outhouse Express

We start watching some shows like survivor 15 minutes after they
begin. This enables us to FF thru commercials and be caught up to live
at end of show.

Cant do that with a VCR


You actually can, by using 2 VCRs and switching between them. An
extremely complex, error prone, and non-worthwhile procedure.

People without DVRs dont know what they are missing!

And a lot won't believe it when you tell them.

crabshell wrote:
Look what I started. I hardly have time to watch TV. In fact my attic
antenna is looking better every day. The uncompressed signal looks
great...

Ideal DVR user, since it saves all the commercial time...