My LaserJet 4M has suddenly developed a serious problem -- just as I need it
to get out some important documents.

It's printing black lines across the width of the paper, about 1/8" to 1/4"
wide. They occur randomly (two to three per page) and look as if someone has
run a Magic Marker across the document.

In one case where the line ran through a graphic I use on my letterhead, the
line appeared to be "behind" the graphic -- that is, the white spaces in it
were reproduced with little degradation.

This does not appear to be a toner-cartridge problem. It seems more likely
to be intermittent laser output. (When the laser is off, the drum retains
its charge and picks up toner that's then transferred to the paper.)

I need this unit ASAP, and am willing to rip into it in the hopes that the
problem is a loose cable or failing solder joint. (I can download the
service manual for $7, if need be.)

Any ideas, anyone? Thanks in advance.

On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 04:24:08 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

My LaserJet 4M has suddenly developed a serious problem -- just as I need it
to get out some important documents.

It's printing black lines across the width of the paper, about 1/8" to 1/4"
wide. They occur randomly (two to three per page) and look as if someone has
run a Magic Marker across the document.

In one case where the line ran through a graphic I use on my letterhead, the
line appeared to be "behind" the graphic -- that is, the white spaces in it
were reproduced with little degradation.

This does not appear to be a toner-cartridge problem. It seems more likely
to be intermittent laser output. (When the laser is off, the drum retains
its charge and picks up toner that's then transferred to the paper.)

I need this unit ASAP, and am willing to rip into it in the hopes that the
problem is a loose cable or failing solder joint. (I can download the
service manual for $7, if need be.)

Any ideas, anyone? Thanks in advance.


First thing is to replace the cartridge. Saying "Doesn't appear to be"
won't hold much water in the real world... Sadly if you don't have a
spare cardridge you are going to have to gamble that it is bad, or
that you can fix the printer. Not (IMHO) a good gamble however.

Were this mine, I'd consider just replacing it, then find a used
cartridge to test with (see if someone can give you one that is on its
last legs...) to see if that is the problem.

Also, just for grins, clean carefully all the electircal connections
to the cartdridge.

William Sommerwerck wrote:


Any ideas, anyone? Thanks in advance.



Suggest that you try the forums over on www.fixyourownprinter.com. I've
a couple of 4M and 4 Plus that I've kept running with info from that site.

--
Tim Phipps

replace "invalid" with "uk" to reply by email

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
:

My LaserJet 4M has suddenly developed a serious problem -- just as I
need it to get out some important documents.

It's printing black lines across the width of the paper, about 1/8" to
1/4" wide. They occur randomly (two to three per page) and look as if
someone has run a Magic Marker across the document.

In one case where the line ran through a graphic I use on my
letterhead, the line appeared to be "behind" the graphic -- that is,
the white spaces in it were reproduced with little degradation.

This does not appear to be a toner-cartridge problem. It seems more
likely to be intermittent laser output. (When the laser is off, the
drum retains its charge and picks up toner that's then transferred to
the paper.)

I need this unit ASAP, and am willing to rip into it in the hopes that
the problem is a loose cable or failing solder joint. (I can download
the service manual for $7, if need be.)

Any ideas, anyone? Thanks in advance.



From service manual;

Table 7-17 Random Horizontal Black Lines

Possible Cause Action

Laser/Scanning Assembly Replace the Laser/Scanner Assembly.
misaligned or damaged.

DC Controller PCA Replace the DC Controller PCA.

"Tim Phipps" wrote
in message ...
William Sommerwerck wrote:

Suggest that you try the forums over on www.fixyourownprinter.com. I've
a couple of 4M and 4 Plus that I've kept running with info from that site.

I've already looked there, posted, and been given bad advice by a resident
expert. He misread my problem and assumed I was talking about vertical lines
along the edge. (I have that problem, too, but it's minor.)

Unfortunately, I know no one who owns one of these printers. I'll have to
call HP and some local repair shops tomorrow.

The odds are pretty good that the laser diode is failing.

This printer (made by Canon) is over 15 years old. It's a great product, and
I'd rather repair it than buy a new one.

William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Tim Phipps" wrote
in message ...
William Sommerwerck wrote:

Suggest that you try the forums over on www.fixyourownprinter.com. I've
a couple of 4M and 4 Plus that I've kept running with info from that site.

I've already looked there, posted, and been given bad advice by a resident
expert. He misread my problem and assumed I was talking about vertical lines
along the edge. (I have that problem, too, but it's minor.)

Unfortunately, I know no one who owns one of these printers. I'll have to
call HP and some local repair shops tomorrow.

The odds are pretty good that the laser diode is failing.

This printer (made by Canon) is over 15 years old. It's a great product, and
I'd rather repair it than buy a new one.



In the UK at least you can pick up these printers on ebay fairly cheap
so possibly a good source of parts. As you are probably aware, the LJ 4
is the same as the 4M except for the postscript module.

--
Tim Phipps

replace "invalid" with "uk" to reply by email

"me" wrote in message
...
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
:

From service manual;

Table 7-17 Random Horizontal Black Lines

Possible Cause Action

Laser/Scanning Assembly Replace the Laser/Scanner Assembly.
misaligned or damaged.

DC Controller PCA Replace the DC Controller PCA

Thanks for the confirmation of my intuitive analysis.

It's a simple fix -- but who knows what it will cost?

"Tim Phipps" wrote in message
...

In the UK at least you can pick up these printers on eBay fairly
cheap so possibly a good source of parts. As you are probably
aware, the 4 is the same as the 4M except for the PostScript
module.

I found several companies selling "refurbished" 4Ms for $200 or less --
shipping included. One wonders just how "refurbished" they are, or how long
they'll last.

I bought the 4M precisely because it supported PostScript, which was
critical for me. I would never own a printer that didn't support PostScript.
(It's nice to know that what comes out of a PostScript photosetter thousands
of miles away will exactly match what you printed out in your home office.)

It's funny how the 4M was touted as a Macintosh printer, when it works
perfectly well with Windows. (At the time the 4M came out, the Macintosh OS
natively supported PostScript.)

William Sommerwerck wrote:
"me" wrote in message
...

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
:


From service manual;


Table 7-17 Random Horizontal Black Lines


Possible Cause Action


Laser/Scanning Assembly Replace the Laser/Scanner Assembly.
misaligned or damaged.


DC Controller PCA Replace the DC Controller PCA


Thanks for the confirmation of my intuitive analysis.

It's a simple fix -- but who knows what it will cost?


You want my 2 cents worth?
It's convenient how HP was able to print an exact fault that would
point to a component that's not intended for the basic user to correct
and local supplier to have..

This only tells me that some where along the line the flaw was found
and the instruction manual updated until the end of production of that
version..

Simply solution. Buy a new Laser printer of a different model.


--
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"


http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

On Jan 6, 8:05*am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
"Tim Phipps" wrote in
message

...

In the UK at least you can pick up these printers on eBay fairly
cheap so possibly a good source of parts. As you are probably
aware, the 4 is the same as the 4M except for the PostScript
module.

I found several companies selling "refurbished" 4Ms for $200 or
less --
shipping included. One wonders just how "refurbished" they are, or
how long
they'll last.

I bought the 4M precisely because it supported PostScript, which
was
critical for me. I would never own a printer that didn't support
PostScript.
(It's nice to know that what comes out of a PostScript photosetter
thousands
of miles away will exactly match what you printed out in your home
office.)

It's funny how the 4M was touted as a Macintosh printer, when it
works
perfectly well with Windows. (At the time the 4M came out, the
Macintosh OS
natively supported PostScript.)

We have a LJ 4M (hand me down from billing) in engineering for the
occasional print job that had some paper feed problems. The repair
involved replacing all the rubber feed rollers. We also have a LJ 4MV
for printing 11x17 schematics and patch bay labels which was picked up
on eBay 3 years back 'refurbished' for $250 and it's going strong.

If you still use parallel port for the printer, you likely won't find
many (if any) of those.

GG

William Sommerwerck wrote:
"me" wrote in message
...

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
:


From service manual;


Table 7-17 Random Horizontal Black Lines


Possible Cause Action


Laser/Scanning Assembly Replace the Laser/Scanner Assembly.
misaligned or damaged.


DC Controller PCA Replace the DC Controller PCA


Thanks for the confirmation of my intuitive analysis.

It's a simple fix -- but who knows what it will cost?



Well, what i would do is see if you get lucky. Take the unit apart. take
the toner cart out of it. take the boards out and blow them off outside
or carefully vacuum them inside. (you don't want toner dust all over).

THen carefully check connectors on the boards and check for cold solder
joints. I had a LJ2 that got funky and started working when i cleaned it
out and resoldered connections.

Bob

"Jamie" t
wrote in message ...

You want my 2 cents worth? It's convenient how HP was able to
print an exact fault that would point to a component that's not
intended for the basic user to correct and local supplier to have.

This only tells me that some where along the line the flaw
was found and the instruction manual updated until the end
of production of that version..

Simple solution. Buy a new laser printer of a different model.

This is not a valid analysis of the situation.

Many years ago, Proctor-Silex introduced a series of "Lifetime"
appliances -- toaster, iron, coffee maker. They were highly modular. If the
heater base of the coffee maker failed, you simply bought a replacement.
That was that. No need to schlep the item to the repair shop.

These products didn't last long, because the guarantee that replacement
parts would be available indefinitely rendered it impractical for
Proctor-Silex to produce "new & improved" models.

The fact is that, other than the Proctor Lifetime appliances, and the
original Motorola Quasar, there have been few, if any, readily repairable
consumer products. It's much cheaper to assemble everything in such a way
that it becomes difficult to easily repair. * (The GE system of "value
analysis", adopted by Kodak and many other companies, further complicated
repairs by having one component perform multiple tasks.) As much as I would
like to be able to repair a broken item simply by replacing a standard
module, I realize that it isn't practical, either from an engineering or
market (economic) point of view.

A printer is not a coffee maker. Photographic and electronic devices contain
many components that are not, and never will be, readily user-replaceable.
And once any product becomes cheap enough to be a "commodity" item, you
simply toss it out rather than repairing it.

As for HP's analysis of product faults...

The description given, as was made clear, came from the service manual, not
the user manual. Furthermore, this specific problem will occur in virtually
_any_ laser printer where the laser or its drive circuitry deteriorates or
fails. It is predictable -- and was likely predicted -- before the first
_prototype_ of a laser printer was ever built! There was no "hidden flaw"
for HP to find. **

As for your knowledge of laser printers...

The early HP LaserJets are classic products. The 4M, though not as fast as
modern printers, is well-built and still produces beautiful output. Unless
it would cost too much to repair, I have no desire to replace it with
another model. That people still buy used 4 and 4M printers, and that OEM
toner cartridges are still available, says a great deal about them. (The
"engine" was a Canon product, by the way.)

* If circuit boards were "pluggable" and thereby "swappable", products would
become larger and more expensive, and would gain new connector-derived
failure modes.

** I used to own a Sony D-7S Discman. This model had a poorly designed laser
diode (from Sharp) that deteriorated prematurely. I had to literally
blackmail Sony to get them to fix it.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

"Tim Phipps" wrote
in message ...

William Sommerwerck wrote:


Suggest that you try the forums over on www.fixyourownprinter.com. I've
a couple of 4M and 4 Plus that I've kept running with info from that site.


I've already looked there, posted, and been given bad advice by a resident
expert. He misread my problem and assumed I was talking about vertical lines
along the edge. (I have that problem, too, but it's minor.)

Unfortunately, I know no one who owns one of these printers.

I'll bet many readers of this N.G. own one; my 4MP is the best printer on
my network at the moment. It is always wise to acquire contingency spares
(another LJ4) in advance; check thrift stores, back alleys in business
districts, dumpsters, electronics recyclers, etc. It should be possible
to maintain the machine for a long time to come.

Michael

"Bob Urz" wrote in message
...

Then carefully check connectors on the boards and check for cold
solder joints. I had a LJ2 that got funky and started working when
I cleaned it out and resoldered connections.

That's what I likely do, because I'm hoping that a bad solder joint will be
the problem. I'm not sure how to disasseble it, though. But I'll probably
attack it tomorrow.

"msg" wrote in message
...

I'll bet many readers of this N.G. own one; my 4MP is the best
printer on my network at the moment. It's always wise to acquire
contingency spares in advance; check thrift stores, back alleys in
business districts, dumpsters, electronics recyclers, etc. It should
be possible to maintain the machine for a long time to come.

Agreed. I've already found at least one seemingly trustworth eBay seller.

Your point about contingency backups is well-taken. Last year I bought a
second JVC XP-A1000 hall synthesizer to cover me if my other one ever fails.

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...

Pull the laser mech out and clean the mirror and the laser prism.
If it has a corona wire clean it. Replace the toner. Those three
things usually fixes her right up. I've had to do that on so many
4Ms for industrial customers back in the late 90's that I could
do it in my sleep.

Thanks for the advice. (I've cleaned the corona wire several times.)

I know you can't "hold my hand", but I need just a bit of advice -- is it
fairly easy to rip 'er apart? The cabinet "hangs" on the guts; its not easy
to see where you should start dismembering.

I can buy a service manual on the Web for $7, so I won't be upset if you say
"Get the manual, ya lazy bum."

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
My LaserJet 4M has suddenly developed a serious problem -- just as I need
it
to get out some important documents.

It's printing black lines across the width of the paper, about 1/8" to
1/4"
wide. They occur randomly (two to three per page) and look as if someone
has
run a Magic Marker across the document.

In one case where the line ran through a graphic I use on my letterhead,
the
line appeared to be "behind" the graphic -- that is, the white spaces in
it
were reproduced with little degradation.

This does not appear to be a toner-cartridge problem. It seems more likely
to be intermittent laser output. (When the laser is off, the drum retains
its charge and picks up toner that's then transferred to the paper.)

I need this unit ASAP, and am willing to rip into it in the hopes that the
problem is a loose cable or failing solder joint. (I can download the
service manual for $7, if need be.)

Any ideas, anyone? Thanks in advance.




That's one I've never run into. Do the images look perfect? What if you
print out a page that is just an image, rather than something that sends
truetype fonts or postscript? If bitmaps print perfectly then the problem is
likely something on the main processing board.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
. ..
"me" wrote in message
...
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
:

From service manual;

Table 7-17 Random Horizontal Black Lines

Possible Cause Action

Laser/Scanning Assembly Replace the Laser/Scanner Assembly.
misaligned or damaged.

DC Controller PCA Replace the DC Controller PCA

Thanks for the confirmation of my intuitive analysis.

It's a simple fix -- but who knows what it will cost?



That's what I would have suspected, except that you said images appear
normally, definitely requires some further investigation.

In article ,
"William Sommerwerck" wrote:

I can buy a service manual on the Web for $7, so I won't be upset if you say
"Get the manual, ya lazy bum."

William-

There appears to be a downloadable manual a third of the way down the
page at
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/service_manual/datasheets_h_2200.html

It isn't clear whether you have to download three parts, or if all three
entries are the same.

Fred

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...

Pull the laser mech out and clean the mirror and the laser prism.
If it has a corona wire clean it. Replace the toner. Those three
things usually fixes her right up. I've had to do that on so many
4Ms for industrial customers back in the late 90's that I could
do it in my sleep.

Thanks for the advice. (I've cleaned the corona wire several times.)

I know you can't "hold my hand", but I need just a bit of advice -- is
it fairly easy to rip 'er apart? The cabinet "hangs" on the guts; its
not easy to see where you should start dismembering.

I can buy a service manual on the Web for $7, so I won't be upset if
you say "Get the manual, ya lazy bum."




check alt.binaries.e-book.technical...

There appears to be a downloadable manual a third of the way down the
page at
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/service_manual/datasheets_h_2200.html

Another nice one. Thanks.

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:Ul9gj.801$xA6.654@trndny09...

That's one I've never run into. Do the images look perfect? What if you
print out a page that is just an image, rather than something that sends
truetype fonts or postscript? If bitmaps print perfectly then the problem
is
likely something on the main processing board.

I agree. Really strange.

This is one of those cases where it's more important to get the thing
working, than -- as much as I would like to -- fully diagnose the problem.

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...

http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/R...erjet_Printers

Hey, that's neat. Thanks. Hopefully, I won't have to ask for a handhold.

Jamie wrote:
William Sommerwerck wrote:
"me" wrote in message
...

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
:


From service manual;


Table 7-17 Random Horizontal Black Lines


Possible Cause Action


Laser/Scanning Assembly Replace the Laser/Scanner Assembly.
misaligned or damaged.


DC Controller PCA Replace the DC Controller PCA


Thanks for the confirmation of my intuitive analysis.

It's a simple fix -- but who knows what it will cost?


You want my 2 cents worth?
It's convenient how HP was able to print an exact fault that would
point to a component that's not intended for the basic user to correct
and local supplier to have..

This only tells me that some where along the line the flaw was found
and the instruction manual updated until the end of production of that
version..

Simply solution. Buy a new Laser printer of a different model.

When you consider how many of these things are out there, probably every
thing that 'can' go wrong with them 'has' gone wrong. Why wouldn't
there be symptom/cause info available? Further, the engine in these
printers are very similar to others.

That said, my HP 3200m's (two of them) have a model specific, known,
fault which reared it's ugly head even before I got them. I spent $25
on phone support and they sent me two new BIOS cards Next Day Air for no
additional charge. However, now several years later, one is showing the
same symptoms as before. So far, I can cycle power and clear the '79
Service Error' condition, but I expect when it finally won't go away
I'll look for a new printer/fax/copier/scanner unit.

They've been pretty good to me, considering the investment of around
$125 for two.

jak

William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...

Pull the laser mech out and clean the mirror and the laser prism.
If it has a corona wire clean it. Replace the toner. Those three
things usually fixes her right up. I've had to do that on so many
4Ms for industrial customers back in the late 90's that I could
do it in my sleep.

Thanks for the advice. (I've cleaned the corona wire several times.)

I know you can't "hold my hand", but I need just a bit of advice -- is it
fairly easy to rip 'er apart? The cabinet "hangs" on the guts; its not easy
to see where you should start dismembering.

I can buy a service manual on the Web for $7, so I won't be upset if you say
"Get the manual, ya lazy bum."


Likely it's downloadable from HP's site. All the ones I ever needed
were. Actually 'having' the service manual is a joy on this sort of gear.

Otherwise, just start unscrewing things....

jak

Jamie wrote:

You want my 2 cents worth?


Yes, if it's ever worth the 2 cents.


It's convenient how HP was able to print an exact fault that would
point to a component that's not intended for the basic user to correct
and local supplier to have..


I see that you're stil as stupid as ever.


This only tells me that some where along the line the flaw was found
and the instruction manual updated until the end of production of that
version..


maybe wher you work works that way. HP doesn't.


Simply solution. Buy a new Laser printer of a different model.



More bad advice from Jamie.

Why don't you create news:sci.electronics.just.replace.the.damn.thing
so you'll be right, once in a while?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

I have been maintaining several LJ4s 5s and 6s for our office and the
best place I found for information and parts is.

http://www.printerworks.com/

They mainain individual parts and kits for most of these older HP
printers and have been able to diagnose many problems over the phone.

Parts and kit prices have also been excellent.

Dave22

On Jan 6, 4:24 am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
My LaserJet 4M has suddenly developed a serious problem -- just as I need it
to get out some important documents.

It's printing black lines across the width of the paper, about 1/8" to 1/4"
wide. They occur randomly (two to three per page) and look as if someone has
run a Magic Marker across the document.

In one case where the line ran through a graphic I use on my letterhead, the
line appeared to be "behind" the graphic -- that is, the white spaces in it
were reproduced with little degradation.

This does not appear to be a toner-cartridge problem. It seems more likely
to be intermittent laser output. (When the laser is off, the drum retains
its charge and picks up toner that's then transferred to the paper.)

I need this unit ASAP, and am willing to rip into it in the hopes that the
problem is a loose cable or failing solder joint. (I can download the
service manual for $7, if need be.)

Any ideas, anyone? Thanks in advance.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jamie wrote:

You want my 2 cents worth?



Yes, if it's ever worth the 2 cents.



It's convenient how HP was able to print an exact fault that would
point to a component that's not intended for the basic user to correct
and local supplier to have..



I see that you're stil as stupid as ever.



This only tells me that some where along the line the flaw was found
and the instruction manual updated until the end of production of that
version..



maybe wher you work works that way. HP doesn't.



Simply solution. Buy a new Laser printer of a different model.




More bad advice from Jamie.

Why don't you create news:sci.electronics.just.replace.the.damn.thing
so you'll be right, once in a while?


I see I must create a filter for here also to cover you, asshole.

For your information. We had one of those units at work and had it
repair a few times for that exact problem. I never knew it was in the
owners manual how ever, since we have a service tech that comes in for
us to handle those things. It's sitting happy in a land fill some where
or maybe recycled into some chinese product by now.





http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Jamie wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jamie wrote:

You want my 2 cents worth?



Yes, if it's ever worth the 2 cents.



It's convenient how HP was able to print an exact fault that would
point to a component that's not intended for the basic user to correct
and local supplier to have..



I see that you're stil as stupid as ever.



This only tells me that some where along the line the flaw was found
and the instruction manual updated until the end of production of that
version..



maybe wher you work works that way. HP doesn't.



Simply solution. Buy a new Laser printer of a different model.




More bad advice from Jamie.

Why don't you create news:sci.electronics.just.replace.the.damn.thing
so you'll be right, once in a while?


I see I must create a filter for here also to cover you, asshole.

For your information. We had one of those units at work and had it
repair a few times for that exact problem. I never knew it was in the
owners manual how ever, since we have a service tech that comes in for
us to handle those things. It's sitting happy in a land fill some where
or maybe recycled into some chinese product by now.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


That's right, you illiterate piece of crap. Anyone who disagrees
with you is an 'asshole'.

You still can't read. The error codes were in the SERVICE manual,
and the fact that YOU can't keep an item working doesn't mean that
everyone else is incapable of repairing the same model, for the same
problem. In other words: IF YOU CAN'T GIVE USEFUL ADVICE, SHUT YOUR BIG
MOUTH.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 04:24:08 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

My LaserJet 4M has suddenly developed a serious problem -- just as I need it
to get out some important documents.

It's printing black lines across the width of the paper, about 1/8" to 1/4"
wide. They occur randomly (two to three per page) and look as if someone has
run a Magic Marker across the document.



If the lines are horizontal when looking at a portrait page, then it's
probably not the toner cartridge. It could be the laser, or HV
supply, or any number of other things. I would get another laserjet 4
and do some parts swapping. These printers are so cheap and easy to
find that it's not worth spending a lot of time on, or buying a
service manual. The toner cartridge is the most common problem. If
you get another with a bad toner cartridge (vertical lines is the most
common failure), then you can fix it with your good toner cartridge.

If you get a regular 4, you can swap the postscript SIMM into it to
turn it into a 4M. Don't get a 4+ because they are different and
won't work with the 4M's SIMM.
Andy Cuffe

"Andy Cuffe" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 04:24:08 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

It's printing black lines across the width of the paper, about
1/8" to 1/4" wide. They occur randomly (two to three per page)
and look as if someone has run a Magic Marker across the
document.

If the lines are horizontal when looking at a portrait page, then it's
probably not the toner cartridge. It could be the laser, or HV supply,
or any number of other things. I would get another LaserJet 4 and
do some parts swapping. These printers are so cheap and easy to
find that it's not worth spending a lot of time on, or buying a service
manual. The toner cartridge is the most common problem. If you
get another with a bad toner cartridge (vertical lines is the most
common failure), then you can fix it with your good toner cartridge.

Thanks for the info. (The problem is solved. Keep reading.)

The service manual (which I found for free) insists that the problem is with
the printer -- the cartridge is not listed as a possible cause. An expert on
the HP forums is equally adamant that it's the toner cartridge.

I was leaning toward the printer, because I'd misunderstood how this
particular laser engine works. I assumed the points on the drum the laser
discharges print as white. They don't -- they print as black. (The toner is
charged and is repelled by the charged areas on the drum.) This pretty much
eliminates the possibility that the printer engine is at fault -- at least
in terms of intermittent laser drive. The loss of drive would cause white
streaks, not black.

So...

I schlepped the printer to "The Printer Guys" in Everett. Nice folks -- they
popped in a known-good cartridge, and two streak-free test pages popped out.
I then put my cartridge back -- and got a bad page. Barring some weird
coincidence where the printer suddenly "decided" to work for the "alien"
cartridge, I'd found the problem.

I stopped by Staples yesterday afternoon and bought a 98A. It works.

I might add that the existing toner cartridge was several years old, and had
been purchased "reconditioned". Before I return it to HP (there's a
free-shipping label in the box), I might open it up and try to get a better
understanding of what goes on inside.

By the way... The cartridges are now made in China, but HP still charges the
same price as when they were made in Japan. HP is currently selling the
P1006 LaserJet for $100 -- the same price as the 4M cartridge.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
. ..
"Andy Cuffe" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 04:24:08 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

It's printing black lines across the width of the paper, about
1/8" to 1/4" wide. They occur randomly (two to three per page)
and look as if someone has run a Magic Marker across the
document.

If the lines are horizontal when looking at a portrait page, then it's
probably not the toner cartridge. It could be the laser, or HV supply,
or any number of other things. I would get another LaserJet 4 and
do some parts swapping. These printers are so cheap and easy to
find that it's not worth spending a lot of time on, or buying a service
manual. The toner cartridge is the most common problem. If you
get another with a bad toner cartridge (vertical lines is the most
common failure), then you can fix it with your good toner cartridge.

Thanks for the info. (The problem is solved. Keep reading.)

The service manual (which I found for free) insists that the problem is
with
the printer -- the cartridge is not listed as a possible cause. An expert
on
the HP forums is equally adamant that it's the toner cartridge.

I was leaning toward the printer, because I'd misunderstood how this
particular laser engine works. I assumed the points on the drum the laser
discharges print as white. They don't -- they print as black. (The toner
is
charged and is repelled by the charged areas on the drum.) This pretty
much
eliminates the possibility that the printer engine is at fault -- at least
in terms of intermittent laser drive. The loss of drive would cause white
streaks, not black.

So...

I schlepped the printer to "The Printer Guys" in Everett. Nice folks --
they
popped in a known-good cartridge, and two streak-free test pages popped
out.
I then put my cartridge back -- and got a bad page. Barring some weird
coincidence where the printer suddenly "decided" to work for the "alien"
cartridge, I'd found the problem.

I stopped by Staples yesterday afternoon and bought a 98A. It works.

I might add that the existing toner cartridge was several years old, and
had
been purchased "reconditioned". Before I return it to HP (there's a
free-shipping label in the box), I might open it up and try to get a
better
understanding of what goes on inside.

By the way... The cartridges are now made in China, but HP still charges
the
same price as when they were made in Japan. HP is currently selling the
P1006 LaserJet for $100 -- the same price as the 4M cartridge.



Yes that P1006 may only be $100 but like your toner cartridge it is made in
China. Old HP gear seems to be quite reliable hence why your toner cartdige
was made in Japan, but I haven't been too happy with HP over the last few
years. They have changed their mindset from making a quailty product that
will last to a cheap product you can throw away. We studied about HP in
school and in the book they showed a guy standing on the HP 812c telling the
engineers that the customer doesn't want a printer that can support the
weight of a man. They want an inexpensive product. Well my printer happens
to be an 812c so I don't think I will be upgrading anytime soon. I want a
tough printer. The new ones definately are not.

On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 05:03:26 -0800, William Sommerwerck wrote:

By the way... The cartridges are now made in China, but HP still charges the
same price as when they were made in Japan. HP is currently selling the
P1006 LaserJet for $100 -- the same price as the 4M cartridge.

That's no doubt a volume quirk, as much as any other conspiracy view.
Back in the last century, they were selling those toner cartridges like
hot cakes. Now they sell like buggy whips.

Where I have had reasonable success is trawling through stores like
Goodwill, Salvation Army, ARC, etc. to find toner cartridges for my
HP LJ III and HP LJ 4L. They are usually still-sealed packages ("NOS")
and the prices are usually $5-$10.

(And, while you're there you might find an HP LJ printer! That's how I
came by my $15 HP LJ 4L. Wednesday was "Half-Price Electronics Day".)

My take on it is: the HJ LJ printer owner finally tosses the failing
printer or felt deprived by not having a color printer, or , or , and
sent the supplies along to the second-hand store.

Sure beats the $40 -- $150 I see Googling for these toner cartridges.

Jonesy
--
Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
38.24N 104.55W | @ config.com | Jonesy | OS/2
*** Killfiling google posts: http://jonz.net/ng.htm

"Allodoxaphobia" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 05:03:26 -0800, William Sommerwerck wrote:

By the way... The cartridges are now made in China, but HP still
charges the same price as when they were made in Japan. HP is
currently selling the P1006 LaserJet for $100 -- the same price as
the 4M cartridge.

That's no doubt a volume quirk, as much as any other conspiracy view.
Back in the last century, they were selling those toner cartridges like
hot cakes. Now they sell like buggy whips.

Debatable. The 98A and 98X are commonly stocked. Staples had two of each.


Where I have had reasonable success is trawling through stores like
Goodwill, Salvation Army, ARC, etc. to find toner cartridges for my
HP LJ III and HP LJ 4L. They are usually still-sealed packages ("NOS")
and the prices are usually $5-$10.

I'll have to start patronizing these stores!

Where I have had reasonable success is trawling through stores like
Goodwill, Salvation Army, ARC, etc. to find toner cartridges for my
HP LJ III and HP LJ 4L. They are usually still-sealed packages ("NOS")
and the prices are usually $5-$10.

I used to have a couple of LJ IIIs, but now run a 4. I have heard a
story, which agreed with my experience, that LJ III toner cartridges
were deliberately designed with rubber wipers that distorted after a
few years, to discourage their refilling by third parties. I know I
opened two still-sealed cartridges for my III and found they produced
vertical streaks.

In any case the LJ III was only 300 dpi while the 4 is 600, so I
would never go back. Combining parts from two machines, for a total
cost of $35, got me a nice reliable printer.

Alan

Michael Kennedy wrote:

Old HP gear seems to be quite reliable hence why your toner cartdige
was made in Japan, but I haven't been too happy with HP over the last few
years. They have changed their mindset from making a quailty product that
will last to a cheap product you can throw away.

Our purchasing dept then thought to have made
the savings of the year when they acquired a bunch
of HPLJ5s instead of the recommended HP4s.
After a week, it was found out in the offices, that this
printer had trouble with large files.

Regards,
H.

"Heinz Schmitz" wrote in message
...

Our purchasing dept then thought to have made the savings
of the year when they acquired a bunch of HP 5s instead of
the recommended 4s. After a week, it was found out in the
offices that this printer had trouble with large files.

Though that could be an uncorrectable firmware problem, it might also be
that they don't have enough memory. Can you add more?

William Sommerwerck wrote:

Our purchasing dept then thought to have made the savings
of the year when they acquired a bunch of HP 5s instead of
the recommended 4s. After a week, it was found out in the
offices that this printer had trouble with large files.

Though that could be an uncorrectable firmware problem, it might also be
that they don't have enough memory. Can you add more?

I had opposed the purchase of HP5, because that one appeared
to me as a home use device rather than for heavy office use, but
reason could not compete with the possible savings.
Then I just had PC Mag in front of me where the flaw was reported,
when a mate entered "Hey, my printer doesn't print." Whereupon
we proved, that the report in PC Mag was correct, indeed :-).
About ten or so years ago. Sorry, don't rermember more. Ours
were probably dumped.

Regards,
H.