It's nearly too late now since the new TV's have AVL built-in to adjust
volume increases during commercials, but I am very surprised nobody ever
built a "good" add-on aftermarket volume-leveler all these years. Why would
it be so hard to build a good yet inexpensive one?

Chuck

Chuck ! wrote in message
news:zaQaj.261484$Fc.202074@attbi_s21...
It's nearly too late now since the new TV's have AVL built-in to adjust
volume increases during commercials, but I am very surprised nobody ever
built a "good" add-on aftermarket volume-leveler all these years. Why
would
it be so hard to build a good yet inexpensive one?

Chuck



I'm quite happy , if watching off air, to zap to another channel for a few
minutes.
But I would like an auto insert "PIP" of the otherwise viewed channel so as
not to miss the after-ad return.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

In article zaQaj.261484$Fc.202074@attbi_s21,
Chuck ! wrote:
It's nearly too late now since the new TV's have AVL built-in to adjust
volume increases during commercials, but I am very surprised nobody ever
built a "good" add-on aftermarket volume-leveler all these years. Why
would it be so hard to build a good yet inexpensive one?

Have you heard the results of these built in ones? Ok, I suppose, if your
standards stop at AM radio quality.

The snag with this sort of device is it has to have a fast attack time to
work and a fairly slow recovery. And will work on any programme peak - not
just commercials. Make it fast attack and fast recovery and background
sounds will pump up and down - most unpleasant.

The *only* way you can get smooth transitions between the vast variety of
programme material - and the variety of commercials - is buy having a
human rehearse that transition and adjust things accordingly. (Advertisers
- who fund the programmes - would not be happy if their product was
quieter than the progs). But playout systems are largely automated these
days to save on labour costs.

--
*Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article zaQaj.261484$Fc.202074@attbi_s21,
Chuck ! wrote:

It's nearly too late now since the new TV's have AVL built-in to adjust
volume increases during commercials, but I am very surprised nobody ever
built a "good" add-on aftermarket volume-leveler all these years. Why
would it be so hard to build a good yet inexpensive one?


Have you heard the results of these built in ones? Ok, I suppose, if your
standards stop at AM radio quality.

The snag with this sort of device is it has to have a fast attack time to
work and a fairly slow recovery. And will work on any programme peak - not
just commercials. Make it fast attack and fast recovery and background
sounds will pump up and down - most unpleasant.


I am replying without first searching the web, but I do remember seeing
adverts over the years for a variety of ALC devices for TVs; the good ones
IIRC used to inspect the vertical interval for clues to program changes,
and also used timing heuristics to predict commercial placement. I
believe that such a device using learning algorithms with human training
input would have been _very_ effective, after all, at least in the U.S.
on major networks, a human can very easily predict when commercials occur
and when the level is excessive.

Regards,

Michael

On Dec 21, 11:01*am, msg wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article zaQaj.261484$Fc.202074@attbi_s21,
* *Chuck ! wrote:

It's nearly too late now since the new TV's have AVL built-in to adjust
volume increases during commercials, but I am very surprised nobody ever
built a "good" add-on aftermarket volume-leveler all these years. *Why
would it be so hard to build a good yet inexpensive one?

*Have you heard the results of these built in ones? Ok, I suppose, if your
standards stop at AM radio quality.

*The snag with this sort of device is it has to have a fast attack time to
work and a fairly slow recovery. And will work on any programme peak - not
just commercials. Make it fast attack and fast recovery and background
sounds will pump up and down - most unpleasant.

I am replying without first searching the web, but I do remember seeing
adverts over the years for a variety of ALC devices for TVs; the good ones
IIRC used to inspect the vertical interval for clues to program changes,
and also used timing heuristics to predict commercial placement. *I
believe that such a device using learning algorithms with human training
input would have been _very_ effective, after all, at least in the U.S.
on major networks, a human can very easily predict when commercials occur
and when the level is excessive.

Regards,

Michael- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is special commercially available equipment made to reduce/
compress the spacing between words without changing the pitch of the
voice, so that the density of the sound is higher. The actual volume
is the same, but the increased density of the sound makes it seem
louder. This of course only works on prerecorded commercials, as a 35
second commercial can be reduced to 28-32 seconds using the
compression technique. At one time I worked at a radio station and
this feature was an added-cost item for advertisers.

H. R. (Bob) Hofmann

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article zaQaj.261484$Fc.202074@attbi_s21,
Chuck ! wrote:
It's nearly too late now since the new TV's have AVL built-in to adjust
volume increases during commercials, but I am very surprised nobody ever
built a "good" add-on aftermarket volume-leveler all these years. Why
would it be so hard to build a good yet inexpensive one?

Have you heard the results of these built in ones? Ok, I suppose, if your
standards stop at AM radio quality.

The snag with this sort of device is it has to have a fast attack time to
work and a fairly slow recovery. And will work on any programme peak - not
just commercials. Make it fast attack and fast recovery and background
sounds will pump up and down - most unpleasant.

The *only* way you can get smooth transitions between the vast variety of
programme material - and the variety of commercials - is buy having a
human rehearse that transition and adjust things accordingly. (Advertisers
- who fund the programmes - would not be happy if their product was
quieter than the progs). But playout systems are largely automated these
days to save on labour costs.

Here in Nashville--and I suppose many other places--there are a lot of
'local option' commercials. IOW, there's a commercial on the satellite
feed, but it gets pre-empted by one chosen by the cable operator.

Here, the audio levels on these local options commercials is all over
the place; usually WAY too loud, but sometimes (blessedly) barely
audible. You can tell they're local option because either the subject
is a local business, or sometimes you see just a 'blip' of another
commercial before they cut to the replacement.

Very annoying when you're listening to a movie with the volume up, or
you have the TV on as background to fall asleep by....

jak

Here in Nashville--and I suppose many other places--there are a lot of
'local option' commercials. IOW, there's a commercial on the satellite
feed, but it gets pre-empted by one chosen by the cable operator.

Here, the audio levels on these local options commercials is all over the
place; usually WAY too loud, but sometimes (blessedly) barely audible.
You can tell they're local option because either the subject is a local
business, or sometimes you see just a 'blip' of another commercial before
they cut to the replacement.

Very annoying when you're listening to a movie with the volume up, or you
have the TV on as background to fall asleep by....

jak

That's the same problem we have and it drives us crazy! Does anyone have a
newer TV with the built-in AVL feature, and how well does it work?

Chuck wrote:
Here in Nashville--and I suppose many other places--there are a lot of
'local option' commercials. IOW, there's a commercial on the satellite
feed, but it gets pre-empted by one chosen by the cable operator.

Here, the audio levels on these local options commercials is all over the
place; usually WAY too loud, but sometimes (blessedly) barely audible.
You can tell they're local option because either the subject is a local
business, or sometimes you see just a 'blip' of another commercial before
they cut to the replacement.

Very annoying when you're listening to a movie with the volume up, or you
have the TV on as background to fall asleep by....

jak

That's the same problem we have and it drives us crazy! Does anyone have a
newer TV with the built-in AVL feature, and how well does it work?


You can call your provider. So far, I haven't gotten that far, but
IIRC, there are regulations about relative volume...might not apply for
cable, but over the air....

The issue is with the (less than) technical help the cable company (in
my case ComCast) employs to drop in the commercials.

jak

jakdedert wrote:

Chuck wrote:

Here in Nashville--and I suppose many other places--there are a lot of
'local option' commercials. IOW, there's a commercial on the
satellite feed, but it gets pre-empted by one chosen by the cable
operator.

Here, the audio levels on these local options commercials is all over
the place; usually WAY too loud, but sometimes (blessedly) barely
audible. You can tell they're local option because either the subject
is a local business, or sometimes you see just a 'blip' of another
commercial before they cut to the replacement.

Very annoying when you're listening to a movie with the volume up, or
you have the TV on as background to fall asleep by....

jak


That's the same problem we have and it drives us crazy! Does anyone
have a newer TV with the built-in AVL feature, and how well does it work?

You can call your provider. So far, I haven't gotten that far, but
IIRC, there are regulations about relative volume...might not apply for
cable, but over the air....

The issue is with the (less than) technical help the cable company (in
my case ComCast) employs to drop in the commercials.

jak
TV is advertisements! They don't make money from their viewers by you
watching movies. They know you'll turn up the volume to
listen to the movie and get blasted from the commercials which places a
subliminal impact on your brain in hopes that when you are in the store,
you'll have some interest in that product and have no idea why!

You must remember, shock and fear are the best methods for programming
the brain! That is, if you got one!
It's all about the big green! or what ever color it is!


--
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

"Daily Thought:

SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT
THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Jamie wrote:
jakdedert wrote:

Chuck wrote:

Here in Nashville--and I suppose many other places--there are a lot of
'local option' commercials. IOW, there's a commercial on the
satellite feed, but it gets pre-empted by one chosen by the cable
operator.

Here, the audio levels on these local options commercials is all
over the place; usually WAY too loud, but sometimes (blessedly)
barely audible. You can tell they're local option because either the
subject is a local business, or sometimes you see just a 'blip' of
another commercial before they cut to the replacement.

Very annoying when you're listening to a movie with the volume up,
or you have the TV on as background to fall asleep by....

jak


That's the same problem we have and it drives us crazy! Does anyone
have a newer TV with the built-in AVL feature, and how well does it
work?

You can call your provider. So far, I haven't gotten that far, but
IIRC, there are regulations about relative volume...might not apply
for cable, but over the air....

The issue is with the (less than) technical help the cable company (in
my case ComCast) employs to drop in the commercials.

jak
TV is advertisements! They don't make money from their viewers by you
watching movies. They know you'll turn up the volume to
listen to the movie and get blasted from the commercials which places a
subliminal impact on your brain in hopes that when you are in the store,
you'll have some interest in that product and have no idea why!

Except when they make it so obvious that you have no doubt as to what
they're doing. Annoying your clientele is not a formula for increased
sales.

jak

You must remember, shock and fear are the best methods for programming
the brain! That is, if you got one!
It's all about the big green! or what ever color it is!

jakdedert wrote:
The issue is with the (less than) technical help the cable company (in
my case ComCast) employs to drop in the commercials.

You mean "to play with all the shiny buttons."

--
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.

In article ,
jakdedert wrote:
The *only* way you can get smooth transitions between the vast
variety of programme material - and the variety of commercials - is
buy having a human rehearse that transition and adjust things
accordingly. (Advertisers - who fund the programmes - would not be
happy if their product was quieter than the progs). But playout
systems are largely automated these days to save on labour costs.

Here in Nashville--and I suppose many other places--there are a lot of
'local option' commercials. IOW, there's a commercial on the satellite
feed, but it gets pre-empted by one chosen by the cable operator.

Here, the audio levels on these local options commercials is all over
the place; usually WAY too loud, but sometimes (blessedly) barely
audible. You can tell they're local option because either the subject
is a local business, or sometimes you see just a 'blip' of another
commercial before they cut to the replacement.

Very annoying when you're listening to a movie with the volume up, or
you have the TV on as background to fall asleep by....

It's a world wide thing. I recently got a satellite receiver with dish
rotator and can receive some 5000 programmes. If you can call them that.
;-) And most attempt to get the picture levels near right but seem to let
the audio look after itself. Peak levels vary by over 30dB, some stereo
ones are out of phase or only transmit one leg and high levels of
distortion tend to be the norm with the smaller channels.

--
*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article 6HWaj.262379$Fc.50372@attbi_s21,
Chuck ! wrote:

Here in Nashville--and I suppose many other places--there are a lot of
'local option' commercials. IOW, there's a commercial on the
satellite feed, but it gets pre-empted by one chosen by the cable
operator.

Here, the audio levels on these local options commercials is all over
the place; usually WAY too loud, but sometimes (blessedly) barely
audible. You can tell they're local option because either the subject
is a local business, or sometimes you see just a 'blip' of another
commercial before they cut to the replacement.

Very annoying when you're listening to a movie with the volume up, or
you have the TV on as background to fall asleep by....

jak

That's the same problem we have and it drives us crazy! Does anyone
have a newer TV with the built-in AVL feature, and how well does it
work?

Mine has it but it sounds horrible, so it's never used. To be fair I'm an
audio type working in TV production so may be more critical than some.

--
*I'm already visualizing the duct tape over your mouth

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
jakdedert wrote:
That's the same problem we have and it drives us crazy! Does anyone
have a newer TV with the built-in AVL feature, and how well does it
work?

You can call your provider. So far, I haven't gotten that far, but
IIRC, there are regulations about relative volume...might not apply for
cable, but over the air....

The big snag is there's no way of measuring loudness accurately. It's the
holy grail to develop a device which does so to all's satisfaction.
Conventional metering systems can read peak or average levels but don't
take into account the perceived loudness to the ear - or rather brain. And
the other big snag is that what is too loud to one isn't to another - just
think about the music your kids listen to. ;-)

The issue is with the (less than) technical help the cable company (in
my case ComCast) employs to drop in the commercials.

Again it depends on the programme preceding the ads. If a brash game show
etc chances are the ads won't sound louder. If some drama with a poignant
end chances are they will.

--
*Frankly, scallop, I don't give a clam

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In February of this year, I bought a new Toshiba 27 inch flat screen tv
set.The tv set had the AVL feature, I could click on it (in the menu)
and use it or not.About two days later the screen developed a
blob/blotch on the bottom left side of the screen.I took the tv set back
to the store and I paid about $34.00 difference in price for a new Sony
Trinitron Wega 27 inch flat screen tv set.The Sony gets a much better
picture than the Toshiba did, but the Sony doesn't have the AVL
feature.I use the Mute button (or change channels for a while) on my tv
remote when most commercials are on there.I think the higher price Sony
tv sets do have the AVL feature.Yep, some tv commercials are wayyyy too
loud.I need something that looks sort of like a wrist watch that has a
big tv Mute button on it.
cuhulin

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jakdedert wrote:
That's the same problem we have and it drives us crazy! Does anyone
have a newer TV with the built-in AVL feature, and how well does it
work?

You can call your provider. So far, I haven't gotten that far, but
IIRC, there are regulations about relative volume...might not apply for
cable, but over the air....

The big snag is there's no way of measuring loudness accurately. It's the
holy grail to develop a device which does so to all's satisfaction.
Conventional metering systems can read peak or average levels but don't
take into account the perceived loudness to the ear - or rather brain. And
the other big snag is that what is too loud to one isn't to another - just
think about the music your kids listen to. ;-)

The issue is with the (less than) technical help the cable company (in
my case ComCast) employs to drop in the commercials.

Again it depends on the programme preceding the ads. If a brash game show
etc chances are the ads won't sound louder. If some drama with a poignant
end chances are they will.

Huh uh. We're talking about levels, like you said, varying by 30 dB. I
haven't measured it here, but it could be that much. It's about local
cable companies charging $55/month for 'basic' cable, but not hiring
somebody to simply *listen* to the feed when they dump in commercials
which are wildly different in level. It's NOT a matter of opinion when
you turn the volume to a point where it's barely background level, and
then get jolted out of your sleep by a literally blaring commercial.

It's mostly about money and an unwillingness to pay for technical
competency. The over the air stations, when I listen to/watch them,
don't have this problem to nearly this degree.

jak

jak

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:35:11 GMT, "Chuck" !
wrote:

It's nearly too late now since the new TV's have AVL built-in to
adjust
volume increases during commercials, but I am very surprised nobody
ever
built a "good" add-on aftermarket volume-leveler all these years. Why
would
it be so hard to build a good yet inexpensive one?

Chuck


I don't think it is very easy to design what you are looking for - at
least not so it is affordable.

As to why do the ads seem louder? - read this
http://www.abc.net.au/canberra/stories/s1264909.htm

In fact the maximum level of the ads is not greater than the normal
program material, its just that the ad level is more constant per unit
time, thus the average level is greater than that of the program
material. Advertisers are aware of this trick so they ensure that the
dialogue is constant throughout the ads.

Ross Herbert wrote:
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:35:11 GMT, "Chuck" !
wrote:

It's nearly too late now since the new TV's have AVL built-in to
adjust
volume increases during commercials, but I am very surprised nobody
ever
built a "good" add-on aftermarket volume-leveler all these years. Why
would
it be so hard to build a good yet inexpensive one?

Chuck


I don't think it is very easy to design what you are looking for - at
least not so it is affordable.

As to why do the ads seem louder? - read this
http://www.abc.net.au/canberra/stories/s1264909.htm

In fact the maximum level of the ads is not greater than the normal
program material, its just that the ad level is more constant per unit
time, thus the average level is greater than that of the program
material. Advertisers are aware of this trick so they ensure that the
dialogue is constant throughout the ads.

That's probably true of national network shows broadcast over the air.
I was referring to 'local option' commercials dubbed in by a cable
company. As I said earlier in the thread, often the difference in level
is *downward*, not louder.

I've been a sound engineer for over 30 years. I know what loud is, and
I know what compression sounds like.

jak

In article ,
jakdedert wrote:
Again it depends on the programme preceding the ads. If a brash game
show etc chances are the ads won't sound louder. If some drama with a
poignant end chances are they will.

Huh uh. We're talking about levels, like you said, varying by 30 dB.

Crikey - I was talking about between different channels on satellite.
Don't think I've noted that on any one channel.

I haven't measured it here, but it could be that much. It's about
local cable companies charging $55/month for 'basic' cable, but not
hiring somebody to simply *listen* to the feed when they dump in
commercials which are wildly different in level.

Think you'll find even the major channels don't do that either these days.
Trouble is it wouldn't be one person but a team to cover 24/7 - and an
expensive team of skilled personnel to work effectively. Then there'd be
the problem of an advertiser claiming his ad didn't sound loud enough if
it were altered. And they are the paymasters - not you. Unless legislated
for.
They rely on the material being transcribed into their server at the
correct level - or being supplied as such on whatever material they
transmit from. And as I said thereby is the problem as relative loudness
depends on programme content.

It's NOT a matter of opinion when you turn the volume to a point where
it's barely background level, and then get jolted out of your sleep by a
literally blaring commercial.

I'd rather not watch TV that sends me to sleep. ;-)

It's mostly about money and an unwillingness to pay for technical
competency. The over the air stations, when I listen to/watch them,
don't have this problem to nearly this degree.

Indeed - but plenty still complain about the major channels where more
care is taken. And have done (in the UK) since commercial TV started. ITV
in the UK do have a maximum peak level for commercials some 4dB lower than
progs. Which mostly works - but not always.

--
*Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Ross Herbert wrote:
As to why do the ads seem louder? - read this
http://www.abc.net.au/canberra/stories/s1264909.htm

It's a bit out of date.

In fact the maximum level of the ads is not greater than the normal
program material, its just that the ad level is more constant per unit
time, thus the average level is greater than that of the program
material. Advertisers are aware of this trick so they ensure that the
dialogue is constant throughout the ads.

There's no reason why you can't do the same thing with prog material. As
indeed is done with things like game shows and sit coms. But it is rather
inappropriate for serious drama, etc.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
jakdedert wrote:
In fact the maximum level of the ads is not greater than the normal
program material, its just that the ad level is more constant per unit
time, thus the average level is greater than that of the program
material. Advertisers are aware of this trick so they ensure that the
dialogue is constant throughout the ads.

That's probably true of national network shows broadcast over the air.
I was referring to 'local option' commercials dubbed in by a cable
company. As I said earlier in the thread, often the difference in level
is *downward*, not louder.

Sounds like those ads are being made on a low budget without the use of a
decent sound engineer.

I've been a sound engineer for over 30 years. I know what loud is, and
I know what compression sounds like.

Then you'll understand the problem. We're one of the first skills to go
when the bean counters get control. They can't see the results of our work
on a spreadsheet. Obviously not enough members of the public complain
about poor sound.

--
*How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:44:45 -0600, jakdedert
wrote:

Ross Herbert wrote:

I don't think it is very easy to design what you are looking for -
at
least not so it is affordable.

As to why do the ads seem louder? - read this
http://www.abc.net.au/canberra/stories/s1264909.htm

In fact the maximum level of the ads is not greater than the normal
program material, its just that the ad level is more constant per
unit
time, thus the average level is greater than that of the program
material. Advertisers are aware of this trick so they ensure that
the
dialogue is constant throughout the ads.

That's probably true of national network shows broadcast over the
air.
I was referring to 'local option' commercials dubbed in by a cable
company. As I said earlier in the thread, often the difference in
level
is *downward*, not louder.

I've been a sound engineer for over 30 years. I know what loud is,
and
I know what compression sounds like.

jak

I have both free-to-air channels and cable TV. When watching cable and
the ads come on my wife looks up from her crocheting and says "you
don't have to turn the volume up"......

Not to dismiss your extensive experience in sound engineering, it
seems that it doesn't matter how the broadcast gets to you, the ads
still appear to be "louder". Maybe your cable TV company does try to
reduce the apparent level of ads.

In article ,
Ross Herbert wrote:
I've been a sound engineer for over 30 years. I know what loud is, and
I know what compression sounds like.

I have both free-to-air channels and cable TV. When watching cable and
the ads come on my wife looks up from her crocheting and says "you
don't have to turn the volume up"......

Not to dismiss your extensive experience in sound engineering, it
seems that it doesn't matter how the broadcast gets to you, the ads
still appear to be "louder". Maybe your cable TV company does try to
reduce the apparent level of ads.

It's quite enlightening that near everyone talks about ads being 'too
loud' rather than the progs being too quiet. Shows really where they're
coming from. And that, as I said, it's very much down to the individual
how much they annoy. Which makes it near impossible to satisfy everyone.
Except the advertisers who are the paymasters.

Here in the UK we have the BBC which is licence fee funded. So doesn't
carry commercials. But it does carry adverts for its own programmes etc
and these are equally as guilty of often sounding louder than the progs
either side. Only real advantage is they don't interrupt the programme.

--
*Who is this General Failure chap anyway - and why is he reading my HD? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
It's quite enlightening that near everyone talks about ads being 'too
loud' rather than the progs being too quiet.

One of my pet peeves is audio engineers whose way of thinking seems to go:
My equipment has 650 dB of dynamic range and I'M GOING TO USE EVERY dB
OF IT! Then there are the directors who repeatedly make sure that at least
ten really quiet, whispering, nearly-no-sound scenes are immediately and
rapidly followed by massive explosions. or jet plane takeoffs.

--
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Ross Herbert wrote:
I've been a sound engineer for over 30 years. I know what loud is, and
I know what compression sounds like.

I have both free-to-air channels and cable TV. When watching cable and
the ads come on my wife looks up from her crocheting and says "you
don't have to turn the volume up"......

Not to dismiss your extensive experience in sound engineering, it
seems that it doesn't matter how the broadcast gets to you, the ads
still appear to be "louder". Maybe your cable TV company does try to
reduce the apparent level of ads.

It's quite enlightening that near everyone talks about ads being 'too
loud' rather than the progs being too quiet. Shows really where they're
coming from. And that, as I said, it's very much down to the individual
how much they annoy. Which makes it near impossible to satisfy everyone.
Except the advertisers who are the paymasters.

Here in the UK we have the BBC which is licence fee funded. So doesn't
carry commercials. But it does carry adverts for its own programmes etc
and these are equally as guilty of often sounding louder than the progs
either side. Only real advantage is they don't interrupt the programme.

I noticed that you were in the UK, and should have taken that into account.

I'm really complaining about a specific situation here that probably
will not translate to your experience in Jolly Ol'.

jak

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:40:39 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Ross Herbert wrote:
I've been a sound engineer for over 30 years. I know what loud
is, and
I know what compression sounds like.

I have both free-to-air channels and cable TV. When watching cable
and
the ads come on my wife looks up from her crocheting and says "you
don't have to turn the volume up"......

Not to dismiss your extensive experience in sound engineering, it
seems that it doesn't matter how the broadcast gets to you, the ads
still appear to be "louder". Maybe your cable TV company does try
to
reduce the apparent level of ads.

It's quite enlightening that near everyone talks about ads being 'too
loud' rather than the progs being too quiet. Shows really where
they're coming from.

???

You appear to be inferring that the problem lies with the viewer. If
your logic is correct then the viewer should determine the volume
setting by the loudest material being broadcast, ie. the
advertisements. That way they would have difficulty in hearing the
real program material and then be forced to complain to the
broadcaster that they wanted the program sound level cranked up....
Yeah, I'll go along with that....

Have a good Christmas.

In article ,
Ross Herbert wrote:
It's quite enlightening that near everyone talks about ads being 'too
loud' rather than the progs being too quiet. Shows really where
they're coming from.

???

Did you read the rest of the post where I explained this statement?

You appear to be inferring that the problem lies with the viewer.

It does, to a certain extent. See my comment about kids and their music.

If your logic is correct then the viewer should determine the volume
setting by the loudest material being broadcast, ie. the advertisements.
That way they would have difficulty in hearing the real program material
and then be forced to complain to the broadcaster that they wanted the
program sound level cranked up.... Yeah, I'll go along with that....

At the end of the day the result is the same.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Samantha Brown, visiting Edinburgh,Scotland. ((Passport to Europe,
Travel channel)) (Edinburgh, one of my favorite places on Earth) vonage
tv commercial and one or two other commercials came on tv) TV remote
MUTE buttons are one of the Best Inventions ever.TV commercials and many
Radio commercials are most of the times wayyyyyyy too loud.
cuhulin

Some of those old, old, old movies,,,, if you just barley have the
sound/audio cranked up enough,,,, you/I can listen to them comfortably
well enough.Some of them need for the sound/audio to be cranked up
more.Those tv commercials almost all sound like they are so loud, they
can be heard on Planet MAs.(espicially those high tone extra loud Bllly
Mays tv commercials.The tv/tv channels/tv producers/whatever y'all want
to call them,,,,,,,,,,
They just don't ''Get It'',,, they never have and they never will
either.The Worst thingys about tv is those tv (radio too)
commercials.y'alls ''technical jargon/lingo'' can never explain them.
cuhulin

If you can invent a wireless invention gadget that will automatically
kill the audio of all tv commercials,,, you might be allowed membership
into the Augusta,Georgia Country Club.
Bill Gates never amounted to anything, The Augusta CC turned him down.
I Love it!
cuhulin

Stop buying the advertized products .Call the station and complain . If
everyone did it may help .and most of all stop buyng new cars .

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:23:51 -0600, wrote:

If you can invent a wireless invention gadget that will automatically
kill the audio of all tv commercials,,, you might be allowed
membership
into the Augusta,Georgia Country Club.
Bill Gates never amounted to anything, The Augusta CC turned him
down.
I Love it!
cuhulin

You will have noticed that whenever ads are being run the channel logo
is not broadcast. If someone can build a device to detect absence of
logo and then mute the audio, that will fix the problem.

No doubt Billy Mays is a good old boy, but most tv channels I click on,
sooner or later he shows up on there and I have to either change
channels or hit my tv remote MUTE button for a while.You can hear him
all the way up and down the street.
cuhulin

Ross Herbert wrote:

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:23:51 -0600, wrote:

If you can invent a wireless invention gadget that will automatically
kill the audio of all tv commercials,,, you might be allowed
membership
into the Augusta,Georgia Country Club.
Bill Gates never amounted to anything, The Augusta CC turned him
down.
I Love it!
cuhulin

You will have noticed that whenever ads are being run the channel logo
is not broadcast. If someone can build a device to detect absence of
logo and then mute the audio, that will fix the problem.


If you decode the data in the reserved lines at the top of the frame,
there is information about the commercials.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Ross Herbert wrote:

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:23:51 -0600, wrote:


If you can invent a wireless invention gadget that will automatically
kill the audio of all tv commercials,,, you might be allowed

membership

into the Augusta,Georgia Country Club.
Bill Gates never amounted to anything, The Augusta CC turned him

down.

I Love it!
cuhulin

You will have noticed that whenever ads are being run the channel logo
is not broadcast. If someone can build a device to detect absence of
logo and then mute the audio, that will fix the problem.



If you decode the data in the reserved lines at the top of the frame,
there is information about the commercials.



I'm just curious; are a lot of you blocking posts from Supernews, or am
I plonked? I had replied about vertical interval information to the
O.P. days ago.

Regards,

Michael

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Ross Herbert wrote:

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:23:51 -0600, wrote:

If you can invent a wireless invention gadget that will automatically
kill the audio of all tv commercials,,, you might be allowed
membership
into the Augusta,Georgia Country Club.
Bill Gates never amounted to anything, The Augusta CC turned him
down.
I Love it!
cuhulin

You will have noticed that whenever ads are being run the channel logo
is not broadcast. If someone can build a device to detect absence of
logo and then mute the audio, that will fix the problem.


If you decode the data in the reserved lines at the top of the frame,
there is information about the commercials.

So if there IS something to decode that makes commercials unique
(detectable), why has no aftermarket device been devised?? As we have all
noted, the market would be huge. As one audio engineer stated, maybe the
audio quality would suffer a bit, but I bet we could get used to that much
easier than what we all commonly seem to go through now.

Chuck

On Dec 21, 10:35*pm, "Chuck" ! wrote:
It's nearly too late now since the new TV's have AVL built-in to adjust
volume increases during commercials, but I am very surprised nobody ever
built a "good" add-on aftermarket volume-leveler all these years. *Why would
it be so hard to build a good yet inexpensive one?

Chuck

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msg wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Ross Herbert wrote:

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:23:51 -0600, wrote:


If you can invent a wireless invention gadget that will automatically
kill the audio of all tv commercials,,, you might be allowed


membership

into the Augusta,Georgia Country Club.
Bill Gates never amounted to anything, The Augusta CC turned him


down.

I Love it!
cuhulin


You will have noticed that whenever ads are being run the channel logo
is not broadcast. If someone can build a device to detect absence of
logo and then mute the audio, that will fix the problem.




If you decode the data in the reserved lines at the top of the frame,
there is information about the commercials.



I'm just curious; are a lot of you blocking posts from Supernews, or am
I plonked? I had replied about vertical interval information to the
O.P. days ago.

Regards,

Michael
Hmm, I see you! should I run now?


--
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

"Daily Thought:

SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT
THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Chuck wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Ross Herbert wrote:

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:23:51 -0600, wrote:

If you can invent a wireless invention gadget that will automatically
kill the audio of all tv commercials,,, you might be allowed
membership
into the Augusta,Georgia Country Club.
Bill Gates never amounted to anything, The Augusta CC turned him
down.
I Love it!
cuhulin

You will have noticed that whenever ads are being run the channel logo
is not broadcast. If someone can build a device to detect absence of
logo and then mute the audio, that will fix the problem.


If you decode the data in the reserved lines at the top of the frame,
there is information about the commercials.

So if there IS something to decode that makes commercials unique
(detectable), why has no aftermarket device been devised?? As we have all
noted, the market would be huge. As one audio engineer stated, maybe the
audio quality would suffer a bit, but I bet we could get used to that much
easier than what we all commonly seem to go through now.


Network feeds contain the information needed by their affiliates to
inset local commercials, along with a lot of other data. I have looked
at it with a video waveform monitor, but I've never found an information
on their propritary coding. I no longer work in broadcast TV, and have
no connections to the industry, these days.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

msg wrote:

I'm just curious; are a lot of you blocking posts from Supernews, or am
I plonked? I had replied about vertical interval information to the
O.P. days ago.


Supernews is filtering some postings through Google Groups. Mostly
cross posted, and certain trolls.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida