I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that
I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't think
it would be too tough a job.

Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4
(both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is
my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45%
planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but
leaves a choppy surface.

Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
I'm gonna haf ta find another board.

Dan

wrote in message
oups.com...
I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that
I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't think
it would be too tough a job.

Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4
(both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is
my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45%
planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but
leaves a choppy surface.

Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
I'm gonna haf ta find another board.

Umm because yellow pine is hard compared to many woods and many woods
naturally get harder as dry out and age.

wrote:

....
Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
....

All the resin and, depending on the board, some has a fairly tight grain
compared to many other pines.

Out to try working w/ virgin growth SYP of roughly 100 years age!

Cause it's really tough wood. SYP is the king of softwoods
and you ain't met the tough stuff yet....

Older homes with SYP heart wood will bring tears to your
eyes when you jump on them with cutting tools.

You gotta be from the south to really understand SYP.

We got plenty...you want some more ????


wrote:

I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that
I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't think
it would be too tough a job.

Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4
(both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is
my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45%
planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but
leaves a choppy surface.

Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
I'm gonna haf ta find another board.

Dan

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
wrote:

...
Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
...

All the resin and, depending on the board, some has a fairly tight grain
compared to many other pines.

Out to try working w/ virgin growth SYP of roughly 100 years age!

Am I the only one who noticed the "CCA" in this original post?

wrote in message
oups.com...
I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that
I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't think
it would be too tough a job.

Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4
(both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is
my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45%
planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but
leaves a choppy surface.

Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
I'm gonna haf ta find another board.

Dan


If your 45 plane "slides over the top" then your blade is dull. A well
sharpened blade will cut no matter how hard the wood is.

They cut really thin curlies in anything else (well, I haven't tried
aged oak, yet), so I think they are pretty sharp (SCARYied, just before
use on this piece--and duringG). It has to do with the angle of
attack, and the wood itself--plane geometryG.

George noticed that I mentioned it was CCA--does the metallic content
of the tx have anything to do with the hardness, or is this just badass
wood? (BTW, I know that SYP is hard; my query was to reasons for this
characteristic. Resins, age, tx? Combination?
I'm gonna find a different board.

Dan

Oh, I forgot to mention--my belt sander with 60 grit leaves it . . .
.. . . SHINY!!!

(It is an old belt, but still . . .)

Dan

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:37:15 GMT, Pat Barber
wrote:

Cause it's really tough wood. SYP is the king of softwoods
and you ain't met the tough stuff yet....

Older homes with SYP heart wood will bring tears to your
eyes when you jump on them with cutting tools.

You gotta be from the south to really understand SYP.

We got plenty...you want some more ????



I thought that the SYP that was used in old flooring (maybe 75-125 years
ago) is no longer commercially available except as recycled? (I have some
in my 90 year old house.) Is that species still being cut? -- Igor

wrote in message
oups.com...
They cut really thin curlies in anything else (well, I haven't tried
aged oak, yet), so I think they are pretty sharp (SCARYied, just before
use on this piece--and duringG). It has to do with the angle of
attack, and the wood itself--plane geometryG.

George noticed that I mentioned it was CCA--does the metallic content
of the tx have anything to do with the hardness, or is this just badass
wood? (BTW, I know that SYP is hard; my query was to reasons for this
characteristic. Resins, age, tx? Combination?
I'm gonna find a different board.

Dan


We have a northern non-pine that is similar to SYP - it's called Tamarack,
and it has most of the bad qualities that SYP has in the way of excessive
resin - which was _not_ set in drying, because you can't do that when you
treat it. It has a high SG, even though it's one of the fastest-growing
trees that grows here for the first 25 years , and barely capable of being
dented. Great mine lagging.

I suppose everyone knows what rosin is, and what it's used for? Then
there's aged rosin - amber, I think they call it.

George wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
wrote:

...
Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
...

All the resin and, depending on the board, some has a fairly tight grain
compared to many other pines.

Out to try working w/ virgin growth SYP of roughly 100 years age!

Am I the only one who noticed the "CCA" in this original post?

No...

igor wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:37:15 GMT, Pat Barber
wrote:

Cause it's really tough wood. SYP is the king of softwoods
and you ain't met the tough stuff yet....

Older homes with SYP heart wood will bring tears to your
eyes when you jump on them with cutting tools.

You gotta be from the south to really understand SYP.

We got plenty...you want some more ????



I thought that the SYP that was used in old flooring (maybe 75-125 years
ago) is no longer commercially available except as recycled? (I have some
in my 90 year old house.) Is that species still being cut? -- Igor

Oh, lordy, yes...almost all pressure-treated is SYP....it is now farmed
commercially in all the SE.

And it was used (and still is although not presently as popular) for
flooring, siding, etc.

I've even seen some as moulding in the Borg since white pine and similar
species are now so expensive.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:09:55 -0600, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

igor wrote:

I thought that the SYP that was used in old flooring (maybe 75-125 years
ago) is no longer commercially available except as recycled? (I have some
in my 90 year old house.) Is that species still being cut? -- Igor

Oh, lordy, yes...almost all pressure-treated is SYP....it is now farmed
commercially in all the SE.

And it was used (and still is although not presently as popular) for
flooring, siding, etc.

I've even seen some as moulding in the Borg since white pine and similar
species are now so expensive.

Interesting. That may mean that 20 years ago when I did a renovation and
needed a 12" x 9' strip worth of SYP to match my existing floor that I was
taken -- they said they had to use recycled SYP. Material cost was $17/sq
ft. IIRC. It does match well. -- Igor

igor wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:09:55 -0600, Duane Bozarth
wrote:


igor wrote:

I thought that the SYP that was used in old flooring (maybe 75-125 years
ago) is no longer commercially available except as recycled? (I have some
in my 90 year old house.) Is that species still being cut? -- Igor

Oh, lordy, yes...almost all pressure-treated is SYP....it is now farmed
commercially in all the SE.

And it was used (and still is although not presently as popular) for
flooring, siding, etc.

I've even seen some as moulding in the Borg since white pine and similar
species are now so expensive.


Interesting. That may mean that 20 years ago when I did a renovation and
needed a 12" x 9' strip worth of SYP to match my existing floor that I was
taken -- they said they had to use recycled SYP. Material cost was $17/sq
ft. IIRC. It does match well. -- Igor
There is a lot of difference between the curent syp and the old
growth that was available 100+ years ago. There are a few stands
left, but many are in protected areas. During the drought a
couple years ago one salesman offered the tall ship I was helping
on some that was being harvested from normally swampy land that
was inacessible, unless you wanted to leave the equipment behind,
in the mud. Our donation fell through so someone else got to play
with some really nice stuff.
Joe

igor wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:09:55 -0600, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

igor wrote:

I thought that the SYP that was used in old flooring (maybe 75-125 years
ago) is no longer commercially available except as recycled? (I have some
in my 90 year old house.) Is that species still being cut? -- Igor

Oh, lordy, yes...almost all pressure-treated is SYP....it is now farmed
commercially in all the SE.

And it was used (and still is although not presently as popular) for
flooring, siding, etc.

I've even seen some as moulding in the Borg since white pine and similar
species are now so expensive.

Interesting. That may mean that 20 years ago when I did a renovation and
needed a 12" x 9' strip worth of SYP to match my existing floor that I was
taken -- they said they had to use recycled SYP. Material cost was $17/sq
ft. IIRC. It does match well. -- Igor

To get a precise match to old virgin growth, yes...

There's precious little of that left, just as there are few stands of
eastern hardwoods. But, by judicial selection, you could probably have
gotten almost as near a match from a recent selection that would in a
relatively short period of time be virtually indistinguishable.

What's really hard to match is the finer grain more typical of
old-growth as so much now is commercially grown w/ added nutrients,
etc., so that growth is much faster. This promotes larger growth ring
spacing and somewhat softer lumber.

The other thing is, of course, just like w/ other lumber, the size of
trees when harvested are no longer near what the old-growth timber was.
Our barn dates back to just after WWI w/ all framing SYP. There are any
number of 2x8 and larger of 16 to 20 ft lengths w/o a knot in them. Now
you couldn't find an 8 ft 2x4.

(As a comparison, in the early 60s we built a set of grain bins and a
small feed mill in the back corner of this same barn. There's still
some left over framing from that in the haymow. It was Doug fir, not
SYP, but there are about 20 pieces of 20-ft 2x6's of which only one has
a knot....I hate to think what it would take to buy that material now...

SYP flooring is still widely available and still used
a LOT. They must cut millions of feet of SYP every
single day.

The "good stuff" is culled out very quickly and sold
at premium prices off shore of here. You can still find
good heartwood from selected dealers but it's tougher to
find since the folks in Europe and other places really like
SYP.

What we get is #2 or worse and most of that ends up
in 2x6 decking or even 5/4" decking boards.

Anything of real value is exported cause of the prices.

Recycled is being used a LOT but how much recylced do you
think there is ???

I suspect "most" homes that are over 50 years old have SYP
in the flooring system.(East of Mississippi)

igor wrote:


I thought that the SYP that was used in old flooring (maybe 75-125 years
ago) is no longer commercially available except as recycled? (I have some
in my 90 year old house.) Is that species still being cut? -- Igor

igor wrote in
:

Interesting. That may mean that 20 years ago when I did a renovation
and needed a 12" x 9' strip worth of SYP to match my existing floor
that I was taken -- they said they had to use recycled SYP. Material
cost was $17/sq ft. IIRC. It does match well. -- Igor

Not necessarily...it depends on how good a match you wanted. SYP
has very pronounced grain, and modern lumber has much more widely
spaced annual rings than the slow growing stuff of old.

The sub-species known as Dade county pine is no longer cut for
lumber, incidently, and that may be true of some other sub-species.
Old-growth Dade county pine is harder than nails.

John

Yellow pine is a low altitude growing conifer. Extended growing seasons and
warmer weather allows the tree to produce denser fibers with more resin.
There are several different species that fall under the broad classification
of "yellow pine". Contrary to some of the posts I've read in this thread,
yellow pine is abundant and obtaining "clear" material is still relatively
easy to do. It just depends on where you live. I live in Texas and sell
framing lumber for a living. It's real common to get 2x12-24' boards with
nary a knot mixed in with a bundle of #2. Nobody is taking the time anymore
to separate it out. Here it's just cheap framing material.

Interesting fact, the reason YP warps and twists so much is due to the tree
rotating as much as 360 degrees as it grows each and every year.


wrote in message
oups.com...
They cut really thin curlies in anything else (well, I haven't tried
aged oak, yet), so I think they are pretty sharp (SCARYied, just before
use on this piece--and duringG). It has to do with the angle of
attack, and the wood itself--plane geometryG.

George noticed that I mentioned it was CCA--does the metallic content
of the tx have anything to do with the hardness, or is this just badass
wood? (BTW, I know that SYP is hard; my query was to reasons for this
characteristic. Resins, age, tx? Combination?
I'm gonna find a different board.

Dan

wrote:
Oh, I forgot to mention--my belt sander with 60 grit leaves it . . .
. . . SHINY!!!

(It is an old belt, but still . . .)

Dan

Sounds to me like you got ahold of a piece of old growth Longleaf Pine
that was very full of resin. These trees can harden up like the
proverbial "ironwood", especially if it was dead when cut and the log
was low on the bole.

Fred

Leon wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that
I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't think
it would be too tough a job.

Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4
(both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is
my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45%
planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but
leaves a choppy surface.

Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
I'm gonna haf ta find another board.


Umm because yellow pine is hard compared to many woods and many woods
naturally get harder as dry out and age.


Where is this yellow pine from? Are you taking about Pinus
Ponderosa commonly known as yellow pine? If so, I don't
know what you mean by hard? I'm in the northwest and have
used lots of yellow pine. About the only thing softer is
cedar and redwood. Must be talking about some other species.

George Cawthon responds:

Leon wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that
I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't think
it would be too tough a job.

Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4
(both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is
my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45%
planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but
leaves a choppy surface.

Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
I'm gonna haf ta find another board.


Umm because yellow pine is hard compared to many woods and many woods
naturally get harder as dry out and age.


Where is this yellow pine from? Are you taking about Pinus
Ponderosa commonly known as yellow pine? If so, I don't
know what you mean by hard? I'm in the northwest and have
used lots of yellow pine. About the only thing softer is
cedar and redwood. Must be talking about some other species

SYP, AKA southern yellow pine, has zip to do with Ponderosa pine. Mostly found
from Jersey's Pine Barrens on south to Georgia, it is a highly figured wood,
the hardest U.S. pine, hardens with age, and is a royal PITA to work. SYP that
is CCA treated doesn't dry out until it's been in place 103 years, or so it
sometimes seems.

On the Janka hardness scale, long leaf SYP is 870. Cherry is 950.

Charlie Self
"They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some
kind of federal program." George W. Bush, St. Charles, Missouri, November 2,
2000

Pinus Ponderosa is technically a yellow pine and is often called Western
Yellow Pine hence his confusion but I suspect you probably already knew
this.

Southern Yellow pine is most commonly comprised of 4 different genus. Pinus
Palustris (Longleaf)and Pinus Enchinta (Shortleaf)
are the 2 genus that every keeps referring to as "old growth". Today, Pinus
Taeda (Loblolly) and Pinus Elliottii (Slash) are the most common for managed
forests due to the hardiness and growth rate. This is the explanation for
differing grain in today's yellow pine vs. yesteryear's. Granted
accelerated growth due to introduced nutrients and forestry management has
played some part but these 2 genus simply grow faster in the first place.

Did you know that most "softwoods" grown at lower altitudes will be harder
(denser) than at higher altitudes, yet most "hardwoods" will be the exact
opposite?

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
George Cawthon responds:

Leon wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that
I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't think
it would be too tough a job.

Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4
(both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is
my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45%
planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but
leaves a choppy surface.

Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
I'm gonna haf ta find another board.


Umm because yellow pine is hard compared to many woods and many woods
naturally get harder as dry out and age.


Where is this yellow pine from? Are you taking about Pinus
Ponderosa commonly known as yellow pine? If so, I don't
know what you mean by hard? I'm in the northwest and have
used lots of yellow pine. About the only thing softer is
cedar and redwood. Must be talking about some other species

SYP, AKA southern yellow pine, has zip to do with Ponderosa pine. Mostly
found
from Jersey's Pine Barrens on south to Georgia, it is a highly figured
wood,
the hardest U.S. pine, hardens with age, and is a royal PITA to work. SYP
that
is CCA treated doesn't dry out until it's been in place 103 years, or so
it
sometimes seems.

On the Janka hardness scale, long leaf SYP is 870. Cherry is 950.

Charlie Self
"They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's
some
kind of federal program." George W. Bush, St. Charles, Missouri, November
2,
2000

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
news:mIXJd.95181

Where is this yellow pine from? Are you taking about Pinus Ponderosa
commonly known as yellow pine? If so, I don't know what you mean by hard?
I'm in the northwest and have used lots of yellow pine. About the only
thing softer is cedar and redwood. Must be talking about some other
species.

Southern Yellow Pine. SYP.

Read a little about SYP..aka: southern yellow pine

http://www.southernpine.com/

George E. Cawthon wrote:

Where is this yellow pine from? Are you taking about Pinus Ponderosa
commonly known as yellow pine? If so, I don't know what you mean by
hard? I'm in the northwest and have used lots of yellow pine. About
the only thing softer is cedar and redwood. Must be talking about some
other species.

wrote:
I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that
I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't
think
it would be too tough a job.

Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4
(both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is
my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45%
planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but
leaves a choppy surface.

Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
I'm gonna haf ta find another board.


Uh Huh. Southern Yellow Pine is one of the densest, hardest
softwoods, the only commercially commonplace softwood species
comporable in strength to Doug Fir.

I think that as the wood ages teh sap polymerizes increasing the
strength and hardness.

The Chromated Copper Arsenate treatment makes it denser, maybe
harder too. It may be a good thing that you didn;t use a power
planer. Probably it would corrode the heck out of the planer
head.

--

FF

actually yellow pine is considerably stronger than Doug fir


wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that
I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't
think
it would be too tough a job.

Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4
(both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is
my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45%
planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but
leaves a choppy surface.

Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
I'm gonna haf ta find another board.


Uh Huh. Southern Yellow Pine is one of the densest, hardest
softwoods, the only commercially commonplace softwood species
comporable in strength to Doug Fir.

I think that as the wood ages teh sap polymerizes increasing the
strength and hardness.

The Chromated Copper Arsenate treatment makes it denser, maybe
harder too. It may be a good thing that you didn;t use a power
planer. Probably it would corrode the heck out of the planer
head.

--

FF

Charlie Self wrote:
George Cawthon responds:


Leon wrote:

wrote in message
egroups.com...


I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that
I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't think
it would be too tough a job.

Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4
(both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is
my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45%
planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but
leaves a choppy surface.

Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
I'm gonna haf ta find another board.


Umm because yellow pine is hard compared to many woods and many woods
naturally get harder as dry out and age.



Where is this yellow pine from? Are you taking about Pinus
Ponderosa commonly known as yellow pine? If so, I don't
know what you mean by hard? I'm in the northwest and have
used lots of yellow pine. About the only thing softer is
cedar and redwood. Must be talking about some other species


SYP, AKA southern yellow pine, has zip to do with Ponderosa pine. Mostly found
from Jersey's Pine Barrens on south to Georgia, it is a highly figured wood,
the hardest U.S. pine, hardens with age, and is a royal PITA to work. SYP that
is CCA treated doesn't dry out until it's been in place 103 years, or so it
sometimes seems.

On the Janka hardness scale, long leaf SYP is 870. Cherry is 950.

Charlie Self
"They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some
kind of federal program." George W. Bush, St. Charles, Missouri, November 2,
2000

I've kind of figured P. ponderosa is not what the discussion
is about. However, none of my books on wood and trees, and
I have several, mention southern yellow pine. The problem
with common names is they are often indefinite and
confusing. And syp, seems to be a rather regional
designation. More at response to Mel. Thanks.

Thanks for the scientific names and discussion, Mel. As I
explained none of my books mention SYP, which apparently is
an industry and mill designation. Unfortunately that is
fairly common, and common names often are useless to a non
regional person. In the west, yellow pine is Pinus
ponderosa, red fir is actually Douglas fir, white fir can be
several species and Tamarack is most often used for and
larch is most often called Tamarack.

Nope didn't know that about altitude and hardness. High
success in regeneration of burned or logged areas does
depend on using seeds produced at an altitude similar to
the area seeded. Lots of fudge factor there but altitude
differences of 3,000 or so feet are obvious.

mel wrote:
Pinus Ponderosa is technically a yellow pine and is often called Western
Yellow Pine hence his confusion but I suspect you probably already knew
this.

Southern Yellow pine is most commonly comprised of 4 different genus. Pinus
Palustris (Longleaf)and Pinus Enchinta (Shortleaf)
are the 2 genus that every keeps referring to as "old growth". Today, Pinus
Taeda (Loblolly) and Pinus Elliottii (Slash) are the most common for managed
forests due to the hardiness and growth rate. This is the explanation for
differing grain in today's yellow pine vs. yesteryear's. Granted
accelerated growth due to introduced nutrients and forestry management has
played some part but these 2 genus simply grow faster in the first place.

Did you know that most "softwoods" grown at lower altitudes will be harder
(denser) than at higher altitudes, yet most "hardwoods" will be the exact
opposite?

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...

George Cawthon responds:


Leon wrote:

wrote in message
legroups.com...


I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that
I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't think
it would be too tough a job.

Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4
(both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is
my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45%
planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but
leaves a choppy surface.

Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard?
I'm gonna haf ta find another board.


Umm because yellow pine is hard compared to many woods and many woods
naturally get harder as dry out and age.



Where is this yellow pine from? Are you taking about Pinus
Ponderosa commonly known as yellow pine? If so, I don't
know what you mean by hard? I'm in the northwest and have
used lots of yellow pine. About the only thing softer is
cedar and redwood. Must be talking about some other species

SYP, AKA southern yellow pine, has zip to do with Ponderosa pine. Mostly

found

from Jersey's Pine Barrens on south to Georgia, it is a highly figured

wood,

the hardest U.S. pine, hardens with age, and is a royal PITA to work. SYP

that

is CCA treated doesn't dry out until it's been in place 103 years, or so

it

sometimes seems.

On the Janka hardness scale, long leaf SYP is 870. Cherry is 950.

Charlie Self
"They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's

some

kind of federal program." George W. Bush, St. Charles, Missouri, November

2,

2000

mel wrote:

accelerated growth due to introduced nutrients and forestry management has
played some part but these 2 genus simply grow faster in the first place.

I know posts like this are annoying, but I can't help myself. The urge I
feel here is not to make you look bad, Mel, but to educate everyone else,
and I just can't resist it.

4 different genus.**Pinus
Palustris (Longleaf)and Pinus Enchinta (Shortleaf)
are the 2 genus that every keeps referring to as "old
growth".**Today,*Pinus
Taeda (Loblolly) and Pinus Elliottii (Slash) are the most common for
managed

Actually, you have four different *species*. All four of those are in the
same genus, /Pinus/. I'd also like to point out that the plural of "genus"
is "genera."

Just remember (thank you Mr. Morrison, 11th grade bio teacher):

King Phillip Cut Off Father Gregory's Scrotum
Kingdom Phylum Class Order Family Genus Species

Pinus enchinta -- note lowercase
Pinus pallustris
Pinus taeda
Pinus elliottii (*)

I feel better now. I know, I know, I'm an asshole. I couldn't help myself.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Didn't think this would turn into such an interesting thread. Thanks
to all who've posted . . .

.. . . this is a lot more fun than planing that damn board!

I found a different board and am cobbling up a sill from two pieces of
clear DF. Won't be treated, but I'll back prime it before installing
it. (I'm re-building a section of glassed-in porch on a 70+ yo house.)
Thanks,

Dan

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

I've kind of figured P. ponderosa is not what the discussion
is about. However, none of my books on wood and trees, and
I have several, mention southern yellow pine. The problem
with common names is they are often indefinite and
confusing. And syp, seems to be a rather regional
designation. More at response to Mel. Thanks.

Good grief. You're sitting in front of a reference library. ANY search
engine would have flashed SYP in your face if you looked for pine lumber,
pine classification, or similar. It is a woodworkers' and wood producers'
designation.

FWIW, my 1949 _ TREES Yearbook of Agriculture_ lists the species indicated
as southern yellow pines.

no offense taken and I appreciate the correction. Like I said earlier... I
sell lumber for a living ...not teach botany.


"Silvan" wrote in message
...
mel wrote:

accelerated growth due to introduced nutrients and forestry management
has
played some part but these 2 genus simply grow faster in the first
place.

I know posts like this are annoying, but I can't help myself. The urge I
feel here is not to make you look bad, Mel, but to educate everyone else,
and I just can't resist it.

4 different genus. Pinus
Palustris (Longleaf)and Pinus Enchinta (Shortleaf)
are the 2 genus that every keeps referring to as "old
growth". Today, Pinus
Taeda (Loblolly) and Pinus Elliottii (Slash) are the most common for
managed

Actually, you have four different *species*. All four of those are in the
same genus, /Pinus/. I'd also like to point out that the plural of
"genus"
is "genera."

Just remember (thank you Mr. Morrison, 11th grade bio teacher):

King Phillip Cut Off Father Gregory's Scrotum
Kingdom Phylum Class Order Family Genus Species

Pinus enchinta -- note lowercase
Pinus pallustris
Pinus taeda
Pinus elliottii (*)

I feel better now. I know, I know, I'm an asshole. I couldn't help
myself.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

On Friday 28 Jan 2005 6:51 pm, scribbled:


mel wrote:

Interesting fact, the reason YP warps and twists so much is due to
the tree
rotating as much as 360 degrees as it grows each and every year.


There are a number of trees, especially tropical exotics where the
grain grows in a spiral around the trunk and reverses dirtection
(clockwise or counter-closkwise) every other year or something like
that. But the whole friggin tree spinnin like a top? That's
a bit much to swallow.

After forest fires, I see many spruce and pines (with bark burnt off)
where the grain clearly goes around in a spiral.

--
Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html

mel wrote:

...

Interesting fact, the reason YP warps and twists so much is due to
the tree
rotating as much as 360 degrees as it grows each and every year.



I have to ask what you mean by 'the tree rotating as much as 360
degrees/year'. Do you mean that if I mark a brank that is pointing
north and come back six months later that same branch may be pointing
south?

There are a number of trees, especially tropical exotics where the
grain grows in a spiral around the trunk and reverses dirtection
(clockwise or counter-closkwise) every other year or something like
that. But the whole friggin tree spinnin like a top? That's
a bit much to swallow.


--

FF

mel wrote:

new growth rotates

What does that mean? I was confused by your previous explanation,
too...

new growth rotates


wrote in message
oups.com...

mel wrote:

...

Interesting fact, the reason YP warps and twists so much is due to
the tree
rotating as much as 360 degrees as it grows each and every year.



I have to ask what you mean by 'the tree rotating as much as 360
degrees/year'. Do you mean that if I mark a brank that is pointing
north and come back six months later that same branch may be pointing
south?

There are a number of trees, especially tropical exotics where the
grain grows in a spiral around the trunk and reverses dirtection
(clockwise or counter-closkwise) every other year or something like
that. But the whole friggin tree spinnin like a top? That's
a bit much to swallow.


--

FF

sighhhh.... the tip of each limb grows in a spiral pattern as length is
added to the limb. if you are still confused just forget I brought it up



"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
mel wrote:

new growth rotates

What does that mean? I was confused by your previous explanation,
too...

George wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...


I've kind of figured P. ponderosa is not what the discussion
is about. However, none of my books on wood and trees, and
I have several, mention southern yellow pine. The problem
with common names is they are often indefinite and
confusing. And syp, seems to be a rather regional
designation. More at response to Mel. Thanks.


Good grief. You're sitting in front of a reference library. ANY search
engine would have flashed SYP in your face if you looked for pine lumber,
pine classification, or similar. It is a woodworkers' and wood producers'
designation.

FWIW, my 1949 _ TREES Yearbook of Agriculture_ lists the species indicated
as southern yellow pines.


Your criticism is probably justified. However, lots of stuff
on the Internet is pure BS and I don't search everything.
And you are right, I already figured it was a wood producers
term. Too bad everyone can get on board with species.

I think I have that Yearbook somewhere, at least I have
looked at it in libraries and it was great. There are some
great older Yearbooks of Agriculture. Unfortunately some of
the later ones were worthless, notably those produced during
Jimmy Carter's administration. Apparently some idiot with a
media degree got involved instead of those with an Ag or
science degree.

I still say it is a regional thing. Not everyone lives in
the east or the southeast.

mel wrote:
sighhhh.... the tip of each limb grows in a spiral pattern as length is
added to the limb. if you are still confused just forget I brought it up



"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...

mel wrote:

new growth rotates

What does that mean? I was confused by your previous explanation,
too...



Forget it mel. Some people just don't know anything about
plant growth are too unobservant to realize that cells are
fixed in position and that new growth may be at an angle to
the old cells. There are still people that believe branches
move up from the ground as the tree grows. Good grief!
don't they every look at the trees that grow around them. If
they have enough experience to type here, they are old
enough o have been around the same tree for many years.

And no, it didn't bother me that you mixed up genus and
specie, we all make mistakes. Your "error" was that you
contradicted what many were saying about the availability of
clear wood. Shame on you. We all know that we are in a
mess with fewer trees, the fish, ducks, elk, deer, etc. are
dying, endangered by global warming, rising seas, massive
climatic changes, greatest natural disasters ever, the
greatest loss of species in the history of the world, etc.
etc.

Sorry for dumping, but people are SO predictable (and stupid).

"George E. Cawthon" wrote:

mel wrote:
sighhhh.... the tip of each limb grows in a spiral pattern as length is
added to the limb. if you are still confused just forget I brought it up

OK, that I knew...not what I thought you said, is all...

And George, chill...