After living for years in a city and taking clean water for granted, we
recently moved into our first rural home and have been struggling with
problems involving iron and yellow coloured water ever since we got here.
It's esthetically very unpleasant and it stains our clothes.

Finding the source of the problem and a reasonably priced solution has been
a real puzzle. We still haven't solved it.

We had a very comprehensive test done of the water in the shallow well (18
feet deep and 4 feet in diameter) before we moved into the house, as well as
several times after we moved in. Everything appeared to be within the
drinking water guidelines except for high iron and manganese levels. The
PH and tannin-lignins readings were within the guidelines, but are of
potential concern as well.

iron 0.5, 1.4 and 1.6 mg/L measurements (at various times) - guideline is
0.3 mg/L
ph 6.62
tannins & Lignins 0.2 mg/L - guideline is 0.4 mg/L or less
manganese 0.67 mg/L - guideline is 0.4 mg/L

There was an old Manganese Greensand filter in the basement when we arrived.
We were told that this would get rid of the iron (which we presumed at the
time was the cause of the yellow water). It was in bad condition, so we had
a complete replacement installed for $1600 including installation (We kept
and reused the empty tank from the old installation. Everything else was
new) .

This didn't work. A new test showed there was as much iron as before and
the water stayed just as yellow.

We ran the filter for several months in this situation until we were finally
told that the cause of the problem was that manganese greensand filters need
a ph of greater than 6.8. While some internet sites indicated that the
filter would work at a lower ph than 6.6, the minimum figure of 6.8 was
specified in the instruction manual for the filter.

After a couple of months we found a reliable soda ash (sodium carbonate)
system which raised the ph to between 7.3 and 7.6 and had that installed for
another $1000. including installation.

Unfortunately, the water stayed yellow and the iron level stayed high.

We had the manganese greensand filter tested several times to make sure
there wasn't a malfunction. While we couldn't see inside the unit to make
certain nothing had been improperly installed, everything seemed to be
working according to the user's manual.

Hair pulling time.

After some research on the internet, I found some sites which referred to
"Brown Algae" which can grow in the dark in nutrient-rich wells. Our well,
for some reason, has a high coliform content (not fecal coliform though -
which is below the measurable limit, and we have a UV filter to sterilize
the water). Recently, I saw a small fibrous plant of some kind floating
just below the surface of the well. Does that mean the yellow is caused by
Brown Algae? Even if that's true, why won't the Manganese Greensand filter
remove the iron? Does the algae (if it's there) somehow prevent the filter
from working properly?

We then put high concentrations of household chlorine bleach in the well on
three separate occasions to kill any algae or other growth.

That seemed to work each time when the water went clear for a day or so.
Then the water returned to its normal disgusting yellow colour. The iron
level remained high when we next measured it.

The supplier of our Manganese Greensand filter has now begun to suggest that
our problem might be caused by Tannin Lignins. After some research on the
internet, I found several websites which referred to "Heme Iron", which
apparently is iron bound up in a complex with molecules from decayed
vegetation. Apparently, this can cause a yellow colour, somewhat like the
colour of weak tea.

The measured level of the tannin lignins in our water is below the drinking
water guideline level. Does that mean that tannin lignins could not be the
cause of the yellow water? Could even a small concentration of tannin
lignins somehow prevent the Manganese Greensand filter from working to
remove the iron?

Some other sites on the internet suggested that, over time, acidic water
would eat away the Manganese Dioxide coating on the Manganese Greensand
Filter media (i.e. on the Manganese Greensand "sand" filter media), thereby
rendering it useless. Since we ran the filter for several months in water
with a ph of 6.62 (slightly acidic), could that conceivably be the cause?

In summary, the yellow colour and high iron content in the water could
potentially be due to a poorly installed Manganese Greensand filter, or the
adverse affects of tannin lignins on the Manganese Greensand filter, or the
adverse affects of brown algae on the filter, or the presence of Heme Iron,
or the effects of slightly acidic water eating away the coating on the
Greensand media.

More hair pulling time.

I'm tired of spending money on solutions that don't work.

Anyone have any ideas?

Peter

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TO REPLY REMOVE THE WORDS "SPAMFREE" FROM THE RETURN ADDRESS

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:02:50 GMT, "Peter Martin" wrote:
I'm tired of spending money on solutions that don't work.

Anyone have any ideas?

Well, first I'd say that you have to realize that the drinking water guidelines
are just a measure of whether the water is safe for human consumption. They
don't mean you'll have clean, clear, mineral free water. Frankly, all throughout
reading your tale of woe, the words "deep bored well" kept drifting through my
mind.

I'm not too keen on shallow wells. The water doesn't receive enough natural
filtration to suit me. Deep water usually (not always) means clean water. My
water here comes from a 180 foot bored well. The water is clean, clear, and
cold. There is also a shallow dug well on the property, and while it never lacks
for water, the water is, well the best word is "icky". I wouldn't drink it even though
the health department says it is safe.

Gary

"Gary Coffman" wrote
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:02:50 GMT, "Peter Martin"
wrote:
I'm tired of spending money on solutions that don't work.

Anyone have any ideas?

Well, first I'd say that you have to realize that the drinking water
guidelines
are just a measure of whether the water is safe for human consumption.
They
don't mean you'll have clean, clear, mineral free water. Frankly, all
throughout
reading your tale of woe, the words "deep bored well" kept drifting
through my
mind.

I'm not too keen on shallow wells. The water doesn't receive enough
natural
filtration to suit me. Deep water usually (not always) means clean
water. My
water here comes from a 180 foot bored well. The water is clean,
clear, and
cold. There is also a shallow dug well on the property, and while it
never lacks
for water, the water is, well the best word is "icky". I wouldn't
drink it even though
the health department says it is safe.

Gary

Actually everything we pour on or bury in the ground, comes up later in
water somewhere. That makes the earth more like a sponge than filter.
And it's only been in the last 25 to 30 years that we finally realized
that the ground only filters stones and such, not liquids etc.. Those
things found in water that will harm us are all tasteless, colorless and
odorless... You can't know if they are present without specific water
analysis for them.

The deepest well I've worked on is 605' deep and was only two months
old. One of the problems was coliform bacteria and the month old baby
boy was sick. We also now know that bacteria is everywhere we look
except in space. We can't live with certain types of bacteria, but we
die without certain types too and all waters have some bacteria in
varying amounts until it is treated. The best water man can make is
deionized water and H2O (only) doesn't exist anywhere in nature. In many
areas, they don't call 180+ deep, our average well here is about 150'.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

I very much appreciate your comments.

I've thought about having a deep well dug. Unfortunately, several of the
deep wells dug in the area by my neighbours have produced water containing
high levels of arsenic. There's no measurable arsenic in the shallow well
that I currently have. While a new, deep well might not contain arsenic, it
would still be a gamble.

--
TO REPLY REMOVE THE WORDS "SPAMFREE" FROM THE RETURN ADDRESS
"Gary Coffman" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:02:50 GMT, "Peter Martin"
wrote:
I'm tired of spending money on solutions that don't work.

Anyone have any ideas?

Well, first I'd say that you have to realize that the drinking water
guidelines
are just a measure of whether the water is safe for human consumption.
They
don't mean you'll have clean, clear, mineral free water. Frankly, all
throughout
reading your tale of woe, the words "deep bored well" kept drifting
through my
mind.

I'm not too keen on shallow wells. The water doesn't receive enough
natural
filtration to suit me. Deep water usually (not always) means clean water.
My
water here comes from a 180 foot bored well. The water is clean, clear,
and
cold. There is also a shallow dug well on the property, and while it never
lacks
for water, the water is, well the best word is "icky". I wouldn't drink it
even though
the health department says it is safe.

Gary

"Peter Martin" wrote
I very much appreciate your comments.

I've thought about having a deep well dug. Unfortunately, several of
the
deep wells dug in the area by my neighbours have produced water
containing
high levels of arsenic. There's no measurable arsenic in the shallow
well
that I currently have. While a new, deep well might not contain
arsenic, it
would still be a gamble.

--
TO REPLY REMOVE THE WORDS "SPAMFREE" FROM THE RETURN ADDRESS
"Gary Coffman" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:02:50 GMT, "Peter Martin"
wrote:
I'm tired of spending money on solutions that don't work.

Anyone have any ideas?

Well, first I'd say that you have to realize that the drinking water
guidelines
are just a measure of whether the water is safe for human
consumption.
They
don't mean you'll have clean, clear, mineral free water. Frankly,
all
throughout
reading your tale of woe, the words "deep bored well" kept drifting
through my
mind.

I'm not too keen on shallow wells. The water doesn't receive enough
natural
filtration to suit me. Deep water usually (not always) means clean
water.
My
water here comes from a 180 foot bored well. The water is clean,
clear,
and
cold. There is also a shallow dug well on the property, and while it
never
lacks
for water, the water is, well the best word is "icky". I wouldn't
drink it
even though
the health department says it is safe.

Gary

While I rarely suggest a new well.... if you drilled one and got rid of
the problems with the present very shallow well, you could treat the
arsenic very affordably and easily and have a much easier time than you
are currently. Some folks believe that 'city' water doesn't have the
same type of problems, or that 'city' water isn't treated for various
health related parameters, not true. Most water companies in the US are
now using some wells as their water sources.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

"Gary Slusser" wrote in message
...

Gary,
First of all welcome to the group. Secondly please snip the preceding
message instead of repeating it in its entirety

"Michael" wrote

"Gary Slusser" wrote in message
...

Gary,
First of all welcome to the group. Secondly please snip the preceding
message instead of repeating it in its entirety

Hi Mike,

I see you must be in rural.misc, otherwise you'd have been reading my
posts in alt.home.repair and other groups since early 1997. Or you must
be new here or I would have read your posts in my groups. So I'll
welcome to you too.

Many people search for my posts, so I leave what I am replying to so
they and others can learn without constantly going from one post to
another. I find many posters asking for help or in understanding their
water quality problems to be a bit limited in knowing what to ask or
offer in regards to detail so how do you propose I answer what hasn't
been asked if I snip what they have said? It also prevents me from
having to go from one post to the previous posts or when I get e-mail
including my reply. I get quite a bit of e-mail and it takes more time
to reply if things are hacked up to the point where I have to
familiarize myself with the person's problem by looking up newsgroup
posts. So I'm sorry if my nonsnipped replies disturb you but it doesn't
seem you're much interested in my replies so could you please skip over
them.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:20:43 GMT, "Peter Martin" wrote:
I've thought about having a deep well dug. Unfortunately, several of the
deep wells dug in the area by my neighbours have produced water containing
high levels of arsenic. There's no measurable arsenic in the shallow well
that I currently have. While a new, deep well might not contain arsenic, it
would still be a gamble.

Drilling a well is always a gamble. But you can be pretty sure you won't have
large amounts of tannin/lignin in a deep well. Arsenic is treatable, and a little
even makes your coat shiney. :-)

Gary

(Gary Coffman) wrote in
:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:02:50 GMT, "Peter Martin"
wrote:
I'm tired of spending money on solutions that don't work.

Anyone have any ideas?

Well, first I'd say that you have to realize that the drinking water
guidelines are just a measure of whether the water is safe for human
consumption. They don't mean you'll have clean, clear, mineral free
water. Frankly, all throughout reading your tale of woe, the words
"deep bored well" kept drifting through my mind.

I'm not too keen on shallow wells. The water doesn't receive enough
natural filtration to suit me. Deep water usually (not always) means
clean water. My water here comes from a 180 foot bored well. The water
is clean, clear, and cold. There is also a shallow dug well on the
property, and while it never lacks for water, the water is, well the
best word is "icky". I wouldn't drink it even though the health
department says it is safe.

i have the opposite. my dug well is great & my 185' drilled well is high
in iron and manganese & tastes nasty, even with a filter system i
drink from the dug well & water the gardens with the drilled well. the
sulpher/iron stink isn't so bad outdoors.
lee
--
It is paradoxical that many educators and parents still differentiate
between a time for learning and a time for play without seeing the vital
connection between them. -Leo Buscaglia, author (1924-1998)

(Peter Martin) writes:

After living for years in a city and taking clean water for granted, we
recently moved into our first rural home and have been struggling with
problems involving iron and yellow coloured water ever since we got here.
It's esthetically very unpleasant and it stains our clothes.

What is your household plumbing like? Is the pipe old decayed iron pipe
and the water heater set to 120 degrees or less and not tapped for
sediment very often? What is the

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc