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#42
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 9:13:06 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
It is not unusual for a manufacturer to give in to a perceived need that the customer wants, more of a marketing thing. Well said, and very true. Every manufacturing company whether it is refrigerators or skateboards lives on "innovation", real or perceived. "Innovation" brings the latest and greatest item to the market, and brings a reason to purchase to the consumer. To me, that is what is going on now with the "Starlock" system with the bottle cap blades and accessories. They claim that the new system transfers XX% more power from the motor to the tool head, and that it prevents blade slippage and possible operator injury. I think it is collusion that the two best manufacturers have come up with a new configuration for tools that will a new standard whether we want it or not. Since I have never seen (I take J. Clarke's word on his experience with his)a lugged Fein or Bosch that had blade slippage. Neither of my 8 lug HF models have any, and I certainly wouldn't hold them up to any high standard of manufacturing tolerances. There may be some marginal improvement with the new blade configuration, but I think at best this was a solution that was looking for a problem. Robert |
#43
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message ... A little OT but maybe you remember. When I was much younger and looked thought the Sears catalog and specifically the mechanics tools sets. The number of pieces were listed. They always included the 20~30 hacksaw blades and the individual Allen wrenches in the total pieces. ;~) Reminds me of the convoluted formula Sears would compute the HP ratings on their electric motors. Dave in SoTex |
#44
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:Mq2dnVuG0MnhllbFnZ2dnUU7-
: A little OT but maybe you remember. When I was much younger and looked thought the Sears catalog and specifically the mechanics tools sets. The number of pieces were listed. They always included the 20~30 hacksaw blades and the individual Allen wrenches in the total pieces. ;~) Is it a separate piece if it's soldered onto a board? I've got like a 10,000 piece set underneath my fingertips right now! (Yeah, it's a stretch to count the transistors that go into making up the components. Next thing you know, Avagadro's number will be involved. X* 6.022x10^23 atom set!) Puckdropper -- http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst! |
#45
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, wrote:
This is just a quick look at a new tool I bought that lives up to its hype. http://www.cpooutlets.com/bosch-mx30...efault,pd.html I bought this about a month ago at CPO when they had their President's day sale. With their sale prices and the Bosch promotion, it was somewhere in the mid $80 range to the door with some other purchases. It is a discontinued Robert So after much thought I am ready to buy the Bosch. My question: tail or no tail? Thanks, Mike |
#46
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:47:09 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote: On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, wrote: This is just a quick look at a new tool I bought that lives up to its hype. http://www.cpooutlets.com/bosch-mx30...efault,pd.html I bought this about a month ago at CPO when they had their President's day sale. With their sale prices and the Bosch promotion, it was somewhere in the mid $80 range to the door with some other purchases. It is a discontinued Robert So after much thought I am ready to buy the Bosch. My question: tail or no tail? I recommend the tail-less. I had a Dremel tailed twitcher before I bought the Bosch tail-less. I haven't used the Dremel since. |
#47
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
Michael wrote:
On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, wrote: This is just a quick look at a new tool I bought that lives up to its hype. http://www.cpooutlets.com/bosch-mx30...efault,pd.html I bought this about a month ago at CPO when they had their President's day sale. With their sale prices and the Bosch promotion, it was somewhere in the mid $80 range to the door with some other purchases. It is a discontinued Robert So after much thought I am ready to buy the Bosch. My question: tail or no tail? Thanks, Mike I would ask the question, are you likely going to use the tool enough to wear it out in the next 5-6 years. If not I would suggest getting the tailed one. Manufacturers are notorious for changing battery design and you may end up with a tool that you may not be able to find replacement batteries for. And i have not see a battery rebuild place that rebuilds Lithium Ion. Corded will likely out last a battery powered. For me personally the only cordless tools that I buy, then I have the option, are drills. |
#48
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 06:08:14 -0500, Leon wrote:
Michael wrote: On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, wrote: This is just a quick look at a new tool I bought that lives up to its hype. http://www.cpooutlets.com/bosch-mx30...efault,pd.html I bought this about a month ago at CPO when they had their President's day sale. With their sale prices and the Bosch promotion, it was somewhere in the mid $80 range to the door with some other purchases. It is a discontinued Robert So after much thought I am ready to buy the Bosch. My question: tail or no tail? Thanks, Mike I would ask the question, are you likely going to use the tool enough to wear it out in the next 5-6 years. If not I would suggest getting the tailed one. Manufacturers are notorious for changing battery design and you may end up with a tool that you may not be able to find replacement batteries for. And i have not see a battery rebuild place that rebuilds Lithium Ion. I would have reversed that completely. If you're using it so much that you'll wear it out in a short time, buy a Fein or green, tailed tool. You'll probably kill a lot batteries in this time. I've had my Bosch for close to ten years (probably eight) and they're still making the same batteries. OTOH, it's provably time they change. ;-) Corded will likely out last a battery powered. For me personally the only cordless tools that I buy, then I have the option, are drills. I like cordless tools that I don't use for hours at a time. For quick jobs, you can't beat cordless. They're also better for tools you may be using at odd angles (drills, and small saws). All of your flashlights have power cords? ;-) |
#49
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 6:08:22 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Michael wrote: On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, wrote: This is just a quick look at a new tool I bought that lives up to its hype. http://www.cpooutlets.com/bosch-mx30...efault,pd.html I bought this about a month ago at CPO when they had their President's day sale. With their sale prices and the Bosch promotion, it was somewhere in the mid $80 range to the door with some other purchases. It is a discontinued Robert So after much thought I am ready to buy the Bosch. My question: tail or no tail? Thanks, Mike I would ask the question, are you likely going to use the tool enough to wear it out in the next 5-6 years. If not I would suggest getting the tailed one. Manufacturers are notorious for changing battery design and you may end up with a tool that you may not be able to find replacement batteries for. And i have not see a battery rebuild place that rebuilds Lithium Ion. Corded will likely out last a battery powered. For me personally the only cordless tools that I buy, then I have the option, are drills. Same here. I have tried a cordless circular saw, but I prefer constant and full power. But I am wondering if people most often prefer the mobility of a drill when they use their oscillating tool. Mike |
#50
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On 4/16/2017 10:42 AM, Michael wrote:
Corded will likely out last a battery powered. For me personally the only cordless tools that I buy, then I have the option, are drills. Same here. I have tried a cordless circular saw, but I prefer constant and full power. But I am wondering if people most often prefer the mobility of a drill when they use their oscillating tool. Mike Drill aside, the decision maker for me is where you use it. I don't use the oscillating tool that often and when I do, it is 90% in the shop, 10% in my own house and yes, we have electricity in the house. If I was often using it a job sites I'd go battery. |
#51
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 10:20:58 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/16/2017 10:42 AM, Michael wrote: Corded will likely out last a battery powered. For me personally the only cordless tools that I buy, then I have the option, are drills. Same here. I have tried a cordless circular saw, but I prefer constant and full power. But I am wondering if people most often prefer the mobility of a drill when they use their oscillating tool. Mike Drill aside, the decision maker for me is where you use it. I don't use the oscillating tool that often and when I do, it is 90% in the shop, 10% in my own house and yes, we have electricity in the house. If I was often using it a job sites I'd go battery. My first use is to help me take out the OSB from under the linoleum in the bathroom before I install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. After much consultation,I've decided not to take out the vanity and to install tile around it. I'd be curious what others think about that. That vanity is in there pretty good. Next I'm going to take out the carpet and OSB in the front room and install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. I assume the oscillating tool will be very helpful there as well. After that, I'm assuming it will come in handy in many other ways. So I'm really torn between tail/no tail. Mike |
#52
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
Michael wrote in
: My first use is to help me take out the OSB from under the linoleum in the bathroom before I install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. After much consultation,I've decided not to take out the vanity and to install tile around it. I'd be curious what others think about that. That vanity is in there pretty good. Next I'm going to take out the carpet and OSB in the front room and install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. I assume the oscillating tool will be very helpful there as well. After that, I'm assuming it will come in handy in many other ways. So I'm really torn between tail/no tail. Mike Go with the tailed version and get your projects done. You can always buy a untailed version later, when you find one for a good price. Btw, oscillating tools tend to be much slower than circular saws. It's just their nature. Trying to cut an 8' board that usually takes a minute or two with a circular saw will take an hour or better with the oscillating saw, even with good technique. Just want to keep your expectations in line. Puckdropper -- http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst! |
#53
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On 4/16/2017 11:06 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Michael wrote in : My first use is to help me take out the OSB from under the linoleum in the bathroom before I install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. After much consultation,I've decided not to take out the vanity and to install tile around it. I'd be curious what others think about that. That vanity is in there pretty good. Next I'm going to take out the carpet and OSB in the front room and install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. I assume the oscillating tool will be very helpful there as well. After that, I'm assuming it will come in handy in many other ways. So I'm really torn between tail/no tail. Mike Go with the tailed version and get your projects done. You can always buy a untailed version later, when you find one for a good price. Btw, oscillating tools tend to be much slower than circular saws. It's just their nature. Trying to cut an 8' board that usually takes a minute or two with a circular saw will take an hour or better with the oscillating saw, even with good technique. Just want to keep your expectations in line. Puckdropper YES! the oscillating tool is not a replacement of a jig saw or circular saw. It simply gets into tight areas that would other wise be almost impossible to access. But it does this with sanding and grout removing capabilities also. I use mine a lot to flush cut through Domino's that reinforce my drawer joints. |
#54
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 12:29:20 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 4/16/2017 11:06 AM, Puckdropper wrote: Michael wrote in : My first use is to help me take out the OSB from under the linoleum in the bathroom before I install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. After much consultation,I've decided not to take out the vanity and to install tile around it. I'd be curious what others think about that. That vanity is in there pretty good. Next I'm going to take out the carpet and OSB in the front room and install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. I assume the oscillating tool will be very helpful there as well. After that, I'm assuming it will come in handy in many other ways. So I'm really torn between tail/no tail. Mike Go with the tailed version and get your projects done. You can always buy a untailed version later, when you find one for a good price. Btw, oscillating tools tend to be much slower than circular saws. It's just their nature. Trying to cut an 8' board that usually takes a minute or two with a circular saw will take an hour or better with the oscillating saw, even with good technique. Just want to keep your expectations in line. Puckdropper YES! the oscillating tool is not a replacement of a jig saw or circular saw. It simply gets into tight areas that would other wise be almost impossible to access. But it does this with sanding and grout removing capabilities also. I use mine a lot to flush cut through Domino's that reinforce my drawer joints. Yes, there's no way I'd use it to cut 8 feet plywood sheets. I'll need it to cut the OSB that's flush to the cabinets and walls. I'll also use it to scrap linoleum where I need to. I'm also picturing using it to clear out tight areas so I can fit in the plywood and backer board. Mike |
#55
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 08:42:45 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote: On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 10:20:58 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 4/16/2017 10:42 AM, Michael wrote: Corded will likely out last a battery powered. For me personally the only cordless tools that I buy, then I have the option, are drills. Same here. I have tried a cordless circular saw, but I prefer constant and full power. But I am wondering if people most often prefer the mobility of a drill when they use their oscillating tool. Mike Drill aside, the decision maker for me is where you use it. I don't use the oscillating tool that often and when I do, it is 90% in the shop, 10% in my own house and yes, we have electricity in the house. If I was often using it a job sites I'd go battery. My first use is to help me take out the OSB from under the linoleum in the bathroom before I install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. After much consultation,I've decided not to take out the vanity and to install tile around it. I'd be curious what others think about that. That vanity is in there pretty good. I'd never do it. I remove cabinets and tile under them, as well. Next I'm going to take out the carpet and OSB in the front room and install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. I assume the oscillating tool will be very helpful there as well. Absolutely, but you never know what part of the job will be such a PITA that you'll thank yourself for having it handy. ;-) After that, I'm assuming it will come in handy in many other ways. I don't use mine all that often but when it's needed, nothing else comes close. So I'm really torn between tail/no tail. |
#56
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On 4/16/17 10:42 AM, Michael wrote:
On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 10:20:58 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 4/16/2017 10:42 AM, Michael wrote: Corded will likely out last a battery powered. For me personally the only cordless tools that I buy, then I have the option, are drills. Same here. I have tried a cordless circular saw, but I prefer constant and full power. But I am wondering if people most often prefer the mobility of a drill when they use their oscillating tool. Mike Drill aside, the decision maker for me is where you use it. I don't use the oscillating tool that often and when I do, it is 90% in the shop, 10% in my own house and yes, we have electricity in the house. If I was often using it a job sites I'd go battery. My first use is to help me take out the OSB from under the linoleum in the bathroom before I install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. After much consultation,I've decided not to take out the vanity and to install tile around it. I'd be curious what others think about that. That vanity is in there pretty good. Nothing wrong with that. No need to create extra work by removing and reinstalling the same vanity just so you can say you tiled under it. Is there a reason you're taking out the OSB? If it's sound, there's no reason to. As for backer board, you may want to look into Schluter products. It's now carried at most home Depots. Next I'm going to take out the carpet and OSB in the front room and install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. I assume the oscillating tool will be very helpful there as well. Front room? Is this a living room or part of the bathroom. There's no need for cement board under tile that won't be subjected to constant moisture. All you need is to decouple the mortar from the wood subfloor. That can be done old-school with simple tar-paper, or using more modern sheet products. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#57
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
-MIKE- wrote in news
Nothing wrong with that. No need to create extra work by removing and reinstalling the same vanity just so you can say you tiled under it. *snip* It sure wouldn't hurt to buy a couple extra boxes of tile and store them somewhere safe. That way, if you need to get a new vanity with a different foot print you'll have the tile available to fill in the gaps. 10 years down the road, there's a great chance your tile won't be available anywhere. Puckdropper -- http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst! |
#58
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 11:08:50 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/16/17 10:42 AM, Michael wrote: My first use is to help me take out the OSB from under the linoleum in the bathroom before I install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. After much consultation,I've decided not to take out the vanity and to install tile around it. I'd be curious what others think about that. That vanity is in there pretty good. Nothing wrong with that. No need to create extra work by removing and reinstalling the same vanity just so you can say you tiled under it. Is there a reason you're taking out the OSB? If it's sound, there's no reason to. As for backer board, you may want to look into Schluter products. It's now carried at most home Depots. Next I'm going to take out the carpet and OSB in the front room and install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. I assume the oscillating tool will be very helpful there as well. Front room? Is this a living room or part of the bathroom. There's no need for cement board under tile that won't be subjected to constant moisture. All you need is to decouple the mortar from the wood subfloor. That can be done old-school with simple tar-paper, or using more modern sheet products. Mike, I've asked the tile store people and others about using OSB and a backer board. They all insisted that I take out the OSB and put in 3/4 plywood. I would prefer to put cement board over the OSB, of course, but if it will prevent failure, then I'll replace the OSB. The front room is the living room. It's currently has carpet over OSB. I had plan to take out the OSB and replace it with plywood and backer board, then tile. Again, that's because I'm told that's how to do it. Thanks, Mike |
#59
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 12:33:26 AM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
First, I am in the camp of using a tailed tool. BUT, I use mine on a job site and I cut and scrape a lot of stuff with it. When I go the Bosch mentioned in my mini review, I immediately used it to cut the bottoms off old, hard, 2x6s, hard pieces of yellow pine trim, baseboards, etc. I also used it for all manner of cutting for work inside a kitchen rehab. I get ****ed off if I pick up a tool and it doesn't work at 100% capacity all the time. And since none of my crew guys own an oscillator, if it needs to charge that could mean down time. I have battery powered tools I use in the job (circular saw, recip saw, drills, hammer drills, etc.), but an oscillator isn't one of them. These are not saws. While they will saw, it is only one aspect of what they do. You should always use the right tool to do the job no matter what, and these are not made for continually sawing boards, plywood, etc. They are dandy trimmers, will plunge cut where your circular saw will not, can be used as "jamb saws", cabinet installation saws, etc. But these are not made for heavy duty sawing, sawing in straight lines, or any kind of large project work requiring a lot wood cutting. I do like my corded drills and haven't carried a tailed drill in years and years. Today's battery powered tools certainly have their place, and for light work like a small repair I have a battery powered set I take with me and don't break out anything corded. I've asked the tile store people and others about using OSB and a backer board. They all insisted that I take out the OSB and put in 3/4 plywood. I would prefer to put cement board over the OSB, of course, but if it will prevent failure, then I'll replace the OSB. You need to replace the OSB. No doubt about it, your tile source is steering your right. 1) OSB has open ended strands that will attract moisture, and in a horizontal installation, this can cause delamination of the strand structure. Tile is usually mopped clean at least once in a while and the water will go into the tiny little micro cracks that you won't notice in your grout lines. The cracks are created from flexing of the substrate, failure of the grout to adhere PERFECTLY to the tile, movement of the foundation, and if on wood screeds, weather changes. 2) OSB will flex over time in heavy traffic. I have pulled up old carpet laid over OSB subfloor and you can see the grain is raised under the pathways to bathrooms, bedrooms, etc.from tiny bits of flexing every time someone walks on it. So it does delaminate some, regardless of any manufacturer's claims. Delamination causes the adhesive bonds to break, then the tiles move, the grout joint fails, etc. as above. The front room is the living room. It's currently has carpet over OSB. I had plan to take out the OSB and replace it with plywood and backer board, then tile. Again, that's because I'm told that's how to do it. Make sure that you are installing the correct backer board. The backer that you have at your local big box may be for vertical use only, NOT to be used for foot traffic. Make sure you are getting the correct stuff, don't rely on the HD or Lowe's guys; go to a real tile outlet and if possible, talk to an installer. I found this on the net, and when we put in tile flooring, this is procedure we follow: (( 5 steps to a sound ceramic floor )) 1)Prepare a solid, squeak-free subfloor. One of the keys to a long-lasting tile installation is the underlying subfloor. ... 2) Get rid of the high ridges and sink the fasteners. ... 3) Embed the cement board in latex-modified thin-set mortar. ... 4) Tape the seams. ... 5) Lay the tile in thin-set. We have one more thing that I insist on personally, and that is before adhering the cement board (foot traffic, horizontal grade) to the plywood, I spray the plywood with a coating of PVC primer to close up the pores a bit on the plywood to make sure the adhesive gets a good bite. Plywood will draw out the moisture in the adhesive too quickly in some cases and will give a less than satisfactory bond. Besides... the latex primer is cheap, cheap insurance. I advise my clients that when laying tile over this configuration that their grout joints should not be more than 1/2". regardless of prep. Remember, grout is not a structural component, and the only function of the grout is to keep stuff from getting in between and under the tiles. Wide grout joints on a wood floor will definitely let go and separate from the tiles. Good luck on your project. Once you get it going, it won't be too bad if you follow the right steps. And if you follow them closely, your work will last as long as the tile does. With that in mind, don't buy cheap tile! Make sure you buy something that has a PEI rating or 3 or above so it will stand the wear and tear of furniture, kids, coffee tables, cleaning, etc. Hope you come back here and start a new thread and let all know you are doing with this! We all love work in progress threads. Robert |
#61
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 1:56:19 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 12:33:26 AM UTC-5, Michael wrote: First, I am in the camp of using a tailed tool. BUT, I use mine on a job site and I cut and scrape a lot of stuff with it. When I go the Bosch mentioned in my mini review, I immediately used it to cut the bottoms off old, hard, 2x6s, hard pieces of yellow pine trim, baseboards, etc. I also used it for all manner of cutting for work inside a kitchen rehab. I get ****ed off if I pick up a tool and it doesn't work at 100% capacity all the time.. And since none of my crew guys own an oscillator, if it needs to charge that could mean down time. I have battery powered tools I use in the job (circular saw, recip saw, drills, hammer drills, etc.), but an oscillator isn't one of them. These are not saws. While they will saw, it is only one aspect of what they do. You should always use the right tool to do the job no matter what, and these are not made for continually sawing boards, plywood, etc. They are dandy trimmers, will plunge cut where your circular saw will not, can be used as "jamb saws", cabinet installation saws, etc. But these are not made for heavy duty sawing, sawing in straight lines, or any kind of large project work requiring a lot wood cutting. I do like my corded drills and haven't carried a tailed drill in years and years. Today's battery powered tools certainly have their place, and for light work like a small repair I have a battery powered set I take with me and don't break out anything corded. I've asked the tile store people and others about using OSB and a backer board. They all insisted that I take out the OSB and put in 3/4 plywood. I would prefer to put cement board over the OSB, of course, but if it will prevent failure, then I'll replace the OSB. You need to replace the OSB. No doubt about it, your tile source is steering your right. 1) OSB has open ended strands that will attract moisture, and in a horizontal installation, this can cause delamination of the strand structure. Tile is usually mopped clean at least once in a while and the water will go into the tiny little micro cracks that you won't notice in your grout lines. The cracks are created from flexing of the substrate, failure of the grout to adhere PERFECTLY to the tile, movement of the foundation, and if on wood screeds, weather changes. 2) OSB will flex over time in heavy traffic. I have pulled up old carpet laid over OSB subfloor and you can see the grain is raised under the pathways to bathrooms, bedrooms, etc.from tiny bits of flexing every time someone walks on it. So it does delaminate some, regardless of any manufacturer's claims. Delamination causes the adhesive bonds to break, then the tiles move, the grout joint fails, etc.. as above. The front room is the living room. It's currently has carpet over OSB. I had plan to take out the OSB and replace it with plywood and backer board, then tile. Again, that's because I'm told that's how to do it. Make sure that you are installing the correct backer board. The backer that you have at your local big box may be for vertical use only, NOT to be used for foot traffic. Make sure you are getting the correct stuff, don't rely on the HD or Lowe's guys; go to a real tile outlet and if possible, talk to an installer. I found this on the net, and when we put in tile flooring, this is procedure we follow: (( 5 steps to a sound ceramic floor )) 1)Prepare a solid, squeak-free subfloor. One of the keys to a long-lasting tile installation is the underlying subfloor. ... 2) Get rid of the high ridges and sink the fasteners. ... 3) Embed the cement board in latex-modified thin-set mortar. ... 4) Tape the seams. ... 5) Lay the tile in thin-set. We have one more thing that I insist on personally, and that is before adhering the cement board (foot traffic, horizontal grade) to the plywood, I spray the plywood with a coating of PVC primer to close up the pores a bit on the plywood to make sure the adhesive gets a good bite. Plywood will draw out the moisture in the adhesive too quickly in some cases and will give a less than satisfactory bond. Besides... the latex primer is cheap, cheap insurance. I advise my clients that when laying tile over this configuration that their grout joints should not be more than 1/2". regardless of prep. Remember, grout is not a structural component, and the only function of the grout is to keep stuff from getting in between and under the tiles. Wide grout joints on a wood floor will definitely let go and separate from the tiles. Good luck on your project. Once you get it going, it won't be too bad if you follow the right steps. And if you follow them closely, your work will last as long as the tile does. With that in mind, don't buy cheap tile! Make sure you buy something that has a PEI rating or 3 or above so it will stand the wear and tear of furniture, kids, coffee tables, cleaning, etc. Hope you come back here and start a new thread and let all know you are doing with this! We all love work in progress threads. Robert Thanks, Robert! What are your thoughts on removing the vanity in the bathroom to tile underneath? I'm inclined not to do it, but I'm really on the fence. Thanks, Mike |
#62
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On 4/17/2017 9:28 AM, Michael wrote:
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 1:56:19 AM UTC-5, wrote: On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 12:33:26 AM UTC-5, Michael wrote: First, I am in the camp of using a tailed tool. BUT, I use mine on a job site and I cut and scrape a lot of stuff with it. When I go the Bosch mentioned in my mini review, I immediately used it to cut the bottoms off old, hard, 2x6s, hard pieces of yellow pine trim, baseboards, etc. I also used it for all manner of cutting for work inside a kitchen rehab. I get ****ed off if I pick up a tool and it doesn't work at 100% capacity all the time. And since none of my crew guys own an oscillator, if it needs to charge that could mean down time. I have battery powered tools I use in the job (circular saw, recip saw, drills, hammer drills, etc.), but an oscillator isn't one of them. These are not saws. While they will saw, it is only one aspect of what they do. You should always use the right tool to do the job no matter what, and these are not made for continually sawing boards, plywood, etc. They are dandy trimmers, will plunge cut where your circular saw will not, can be used as "jamb saws", cabinet installation saws, etc. But these are not made for heavy duty sawing, sawing in straight lines, or any kind of large project work requiring a lot wood cutting. I do like my corded drills and haven't carried a tailed drill in years and years. Today's battery powered tools certainly have their place, and for light work like a small repair I have a battery powered set I take with me and don't break out anything corded. I've asked the tile store people and others about using OSB and a backer board. They all insisted that I take out the OSB and put in 3/4 plywood. I would prefer to put cement board over the OSB, of course, but if it will prevent failure, then I'll replace the OSB. You need to replace the OSB. No doubt about it, your tile source is steering your right. 1) OSB has open ended strands that will attract moisture, and in a horizontal installation, this can cause delamination of the strand structure. Tile is usually mopped clean at least once in a while and the water will go into the tiny little micro cracks that you won't notice in your grout lines. The cracks are created from flexing of the substrate, failure of the grout to adhere PERFECTLY to the tile, movement of the foundation, and if on wood screeds, weather changes. 2) OSB will flex over time in heavy traffic. I have pulled up old carpet laid over OSB subfloor and you can see the grain is raised under the pathways to bathrooms, bedrooms, etc.from tiny bits of flexing every time someone walks on it. So it does delaminate some, regardless of any manufacturer's claims. Delamination causes the adhesive bonds to break, then the tiles move, the grout joint fails, etc. as above. The front room is the living room. It's currently has carpet over OSB. I had plan to take out the OSB and replace it with plywood and backer board, then tile. Again, that's because I'm told that's how to do it. Make sure that you are installing the correct backer board. The backer that you have at your local big box may be for vertical use only, NOT to be used for foot traffic. Make sure you are getting the correct stuff, don't rely on the HD or Lowe's guys; go to a real tile outlet and if possible, talk to an installer. I found this on the net, and when we put in tile flooring, this is procedure we follow: (( 5 steps to a sound ceramic floor )) 1)Prepare a solid, squeak-free subfloor. One of the keys to a long-lasting tile installation is the underlying subfloor. ... 2) Get rid of the high ridges and sink the fasteners. ... 3) Embed the cement board in latex-modified thin-set mortar. ... 4) Tape the seams. ... 5) Lay the tile in thin-set. We have one more thing that I insist on personally, and that is before adhering the cement board (foot traffic, horizontal grade) to the plywood, I spray the plywood with a coating of PVC primer to close up the pores a bit on the plywood to make sure the adhesive gets a good bite. Plywood will draw out the moisture in the adhesive too quickly in some cases and will give a less than satisfactory bond. Besides... the latex primer is cheap, cheap insurance. I advise my clients that when laying tile over this configuration that their grout joints should not be more than 1/2". regardless of prep. Remember, grout is not a structural component, and the only function of the grout is to keep stuff from getting in between and under the tiles. Wide grout joints on a wood floor will definitely let go and separate from the tiles. Good luck on your project. Once you get it going, it won't be too bad if you follow the right steps. And if you follow them closely, your work will last as long as the tile does. With that in mind, don't buy cheap tile! Make sure you buy something that has a PEI rating or 3 or above so it will stand the wear and tear of furniture, kids, coffee tables, cleaning, etc. Hope you come back here and start a new thread and let all know you are doing with this! We all love work in progress threads. Robert Thanks, Robert! What are your thoughts on removing the vanity in the bathroom to tile underneath? I'm inclined not to do it, but I'm really on the fence. Thanks, Mike I'm sure Robert has a better answer but tiling under the vanity makes it easier for the next "re-do" I build my own vanities so I simply build them the same size or larger. BUT if you are re tiling it is not that much more trouble to cover the whole floor. |
#63
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On 4/17/17 12:33 AM, Michael wrote:
On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 11:08:50 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/16/17 10:42 AM, Michael wrote: My first use is to help me take out the OSB from under the linoleum in the bathroom before I install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. After much consultation,I've decided not to take out the vanity and to install tile around it. I'd be curious what others think about that. That vanity is in there pretty good. Nothing wrong with that. No need to create extra work by removing and reinstalling the same vanity just so you can say you tiled under it. Is there a reason you're taking out the OSB? If it's sound, there's no reason to. As for backer board, you may want to look into Schluter products. It's now carried at most home Depots. Next I'm going to take out the carpet and OSB in the front room and install 3/4 plywood, backer board, and tile. I assume the oscillating tool will be very helpful there as well. Front room? Is this a living room or part of the bathroom. There's no need for cement board under tile that won't be subjected to constant moisture. All you need is to decouple the mortar from the wood subfloor. That can be done old-school with simple tar-paper, or using more modern sheet products. Mike, I've asked the tile store people and others about using OSB and a backer board. They all insisted that I take out the OSB and put in 3/4 plywood. I would prefer to put cement board over the OSB, of course, but if it will prevent failure, then I'll replace the OSB. The front room is the living room. It's currently has carpet over OSB. I had plan to take out the OSB and replace it with plywood and backer board, then tile. Again, that's because I'm told that's how to do it. Thanks, Mike They "whys" are as important as the "hows." There are newer technologies available that can save you a a lot of work, possibly money, and which may do a better job than what has always been used. I'm just saying make sure the conditions that require doing what they are telling you to do actually exist in your situation. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#64
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 10:31:14 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
I'm sure Robert has a better answer but tiling under the vanity makes it easier for the next "re-do" I build my own vanities so I simply build them the same size or larger. BUT if you are re tiling it is not that much more trouble to cover the whole floor. Nope. I like that one! There is only one instance where I don't pull toilet and vanity, and that is when it is a "landlord" job, where my client wants the work done as cheaply as possible. Otherwise, I agree that it is best to pull the work. Be aware that if you don't pull the cabinet, you can have some screwy looking effects depending on the thickness of your tile, the adhesive, the board, etc. that can creep up about an inch depending on what you do. I pull the cabs, baseboards and toilets for a better, cleaner install. I don't like a funky look to it where you can feel the cabinet height is off when you are washing your hands, the baseboards look short, and the toilet is now part of a permanent install from being grouted in. Besides, when you pull everything, the tile job in a bath is a snap! A lot fewer cuts and plenty of room to work on the floor instead of wedging yourself in there to work. When you start your work, remember to take the entry door off the hinges as well for the duration of the job to get that out of your way, too. It is surprising how much faster and how much better a job turns out when access is easy. And as Leon said, building your own vanities has its place. If you are aspiring to do some cabinetry, the bath is a great place to start. A simple carcass style constructed cabinet can be quite satisfying to build, and can give you enough cabinet experience to be proud of yourself. A good carcass, nice facing, well fitted doors and a drawer bank is a nice size, doable project. Be aware that if you pull the cabinet you will need to take that new oscillating tool and raise the holes for your plumbing in the cabinet back the corresponding amount of your tile/substrate thickness. Likewise, you will need to reset the top as it is no doubt caulked in at the edges, and may need to reset a mirror. When you do a project like this, think like a contractor. Imagine yourself walking into the bathroom and thinking, "what would be my very first thing to do?", make yourself a list of all the tasks needed, form a time line, and then a final list of organization and schedule. With that, you will leave out almost nothing, you can always tell what needs to be done next, and where you are time-wise in the project when your significant other says, "OK, tell me again how much longer until I can use this bathroom again". Robert |
#65
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On 17 Apr 2017 05:24:45 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote: -MIKE- wrote in news Nothing wrong with that. No need to create extra work by removing and reinstalling the same vanity just so you can say you tiled under it. *snip* It sure wouldn't hurt to buy a couple extra boxes of tile and store them somewhere safe. That way, if you need to get a new vanity with a different foot print you'll have the tile available to fill in the gaps. And "filling the gaps" looks like the hack it is. 10 years down the road, there's a great chance your tile won't be available anywhere. You won't be able to match the grout, either, so best just bite the bullet and tile under the damned thing. Tiling is a lot of work, it's not that much more work to pull a vanity and really saves the work of cutting little pieces around it, to say nothing of the added planning complications. |
#66
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 11:45:46 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 10:31:14 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: I'm sure Robert has a better answer but tiling under the vanity makes it easier for the next "re-do" I build my own vanities so I simply build them the same size or larger. BUT if you are re tiling it is not that much more trouble to cover the whole floor. Nope. I like that one! There is only one instance where I don't pull toilet and vanity, and that is when it is a "landlord" job, where my client wants the work done as cheaply as possible. Otherwise, I agree that it is best to pull the work. Be aware that if you don't pull the cabinet, you can have some screwy looking effects depending on the thickness of your tile, the adhesive, the board, etc. that can creep up about an inch depending on what you do. I pull the cabs, baseboards and toilets for a better, cleaner install. I don't like a funky look to it where you can feel the cabinet height is off when you are washing your hands, the baseboards look short, and the toilet is now part of a permanent install from being grouted in. Besides, when you pull everything, the tile job in a bath is a snap! A lot fewer cuts and plenty of room to work on the floor instead of wedging yourself in there to work. When you start your work, remember to take the entry door off the hinges as well for the duration of the job to get that out of your way, too. It is surprising how much faster and how much better a job turns out when access is easy. And as Leon said, building your own vanities has its place. If you are aspiring to do some cabinetry, the bath is a great place to start. A simple carcass style constructed cabinet can be quite satisfying to build, and can give you enough cabinet experience to be proud of yourself. A good carcass, nice facing, well fitted doors and a drawer bank is a nice size, doable project. Be aware that if you pull the cabinet you will need to take that new oscillating tool and raise the holes for your plumbing in the cabinet back the corresponding amount of your tile/substrate thickness. Likewise, you will need to reset the top as it is no doubt caulked in at the edges, and may need to reset a mirror. When you do a project like this, think like a contractor. Imagine yourself walking into the bathroom and thinking, "what would be my very first thing to do?", make yourself a list of all the tasks needed, form a time line, and then a final list of organization and schedule. With that, you will leave out almost nothing, you can always tell what needs to be done next, and where you are time-wise in the project when your significant other says, "OK, tell me again how much longer until I can use this bathroom again". Robert Thanks, Robert! It's pretty great getting professional advice here. While I'm in there, I think I'll just go ahead and pull the big tub too and put in a whirlpool. Might as well do it all. Mike |
#67
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bosch oscillating tool review
On 4/17/17 11:45 AM, wrote:
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 10:31:14 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: I'm sure Robert has a better answer but tiling under the vanity makes it easier for the next "re-do" I build my own vanities so I simply build them the same size or larger. BUT if you are re tiling it is not that much more trouble to cover the whole floor. Nope. I like that one! There is only one instance where I don't pull toilet and vanity, and that is when it is a "landlord" job, where my client wants the work done as cheaply as possible. Otherwise, I agree that it is best to pull the work. Be aware that if you don't pull the cabinet, you can have some screwy looking effects depending on the thickness of your tile, the adhesive, the board, etc. that can creep up about an inch depending on what you do. I pull the cabs, baseboards and toilets for a better, cleaner install. I don't like a funky look to it where you can feel the cabinet height is off when you are washing your hands, the baseboards look short, and the toilet is now part of a permanent install from being grouted in. Besides, when you pull everything, the tile job in a bath is a snap! A lot fewer cuts and plenty of room to work on the floor instead of wedging yourself in there to work. When you start your work, remember to take the entry door off the hinges as well for the duration of the job to get that out of your way, too. It is surprising how much faster and how much better a job turns out when access is easy. And as Leon said, building your own vanities has its place. If you are aspiring to do some cabinetry, the bath is a great place to start. A simple carcass style constructed cabinet can be quite satisfying to build, and can give you enough cabinet experience to be proud of yourself. A good carcass, nice facing, well fitted doors and a drawer bank is a nice size, doable project. Be aware that if you pull the cabinet you will need to take that new oscillating tool and raise the holes for your plumbing in the cabinet back the corresponding amount of your tile/substrate thickness. Likewise, you will need to reset the top as it is no doubt caulked in at the edges, and may need to reset a mirror. When you do a project like this, think like a contractor. Imagine yourself walking into the bathroom and thinking, "what would be my very first thing to do?", make yourself a list of all the tasks needed, form a time line, and then a final list of organization and schedule. With that, you will leave out almost nothing, you can always tell what needs to be done next, and where you are time-wise in the project when your significant other says, "OK, tell me again how much longer until I can use this bathroom again". Robert I retract my previous statement about not pulling the vanity. Like you, I was thinking about the "landlord" type of job. I forgot how annoying it is the see the shrunken toe kick and weird trim transitions around cabinets like that. I have to see some pretty horrendous trim/tile awkwardness every day in my own home due to previous owners who fancied themselves "flippers" after watching to many HGTV shows. :-) -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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