[Olebiker]

I have been roughing out bowls with green wood and am having a tough
time with end grain tear out. Does the end grain tear out less once
the wood is dry?

[[email protected]]

On Jan 30, 9:27 am, "Olebiker" wrote:
I have been roughing out bowls with green wood and am having a tough
time with end grain tear out. Does the end grain tear out less once
the wood is dry?

My experience is that it depends on the woods an you are doing. As
the fibers harden in some green wood, it makes them easier to shear
off clean with a gouge. But some of the softer woods like pine seem
to turn cleaner when green.

I have had much better luck with the scraper on mostly dry wood (not
he 20 year old stuff from grandpa's barn) that isn't wet, but isn't
bone dry.

Robert

[George]

"Olebiker" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have been roughing out bowls with green wood and am having a tough
time with end grain tear out. Does the end grain tear out less once
the wood is dry?


Depends on the wood. Real soft stringy stuff like the true poplars and
their kin are a bear to cut cleanly when green, but improve a bunch when
cured. All others I use cut better green, with the short fiber stuff like
maple beech,birch and cherry being the best. The thing to look for is heel
bruises, those compressed areas caused by trying to press the gouge rather
than letting the wood come to it. If you've got them, work to get rid of
them. Let the angle do the cutting, not your strong arm.

[[email protected]]

Hi Ddur

Generally speaking, dry wood does nut cut easier then green wood, no
matter what direction you cut, a reason why some turners use glue,oil,
wax,water, etc. on end grain to try to fill the openings between the
wood grains, the wood fiber ends, rather lean over than get cut if
they have the room to do so, the sharper the tool and the more you can
slice the better of course, but that's not always possible, so that's
why people revert to those other things to get an advantage.
Normally a gouge should give the better cut, but if you can't position
it to cut proper, a sharp scraper might do a better job, and SHARP on
a scraper is only good for seconds, don't turn the grinder off, it's
cut/sharpen/cut/sharpen/cut etc.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

On Jan 30, 10:27 am, "Olebiker" wrote:
I have been roughing out bowls with green wood and am having a tough
time with end grain tear out. Does the end grain tear out less once
the wood is dry?

[Olebiker]

On Jan 30, 1:38 pm, "
wrote:

Normally a gouge should give the better cut, but if you can't position
it to cut proper, a sharp scraper might do a better job, and SHARP on
a scraper is only good for seconds, don't turn the grinder off, it's
cut/sharpen/cut/sharpen/cut etc.

Neither a sharp gouge nor a sharp scraper seemed to work, so I spent a
little time last night working the the dreaded skew. By attacking the
endgrain horizontally rather than vertically I was able to get a very
smooth cut. It's going to take a lot of practice to get really
comfortable with the skew, and I can only use it on the outside of the
bowl, but I have great hopes for this method.

Dick Durbin
Tallahassee

[[email protected]]

Hi Dick

Dick skews are for spindle work, don't get hurt using the wrong tool
for the job !!!

I know you're not asking for this, but / and , and as you haven't
said what kind of wood you where turning, plus, I have used some
method to get a clean cut on a piece of wood that just would not cut
clean.

Case in point was a piece of spalted curly Elm that also a knot in it,
some would say, don't bother with bad wood, but I had tried this
thinned glue way of making some bad spots turnable.

And as some had asked how I did it, plus some skepticism was raised as
to the ability of finishing of the object afterward, I thought it was
a good idea to make some pictures.

I decided to make some pictures of the object after the initial rough-
out, than after finish turning after I had done the glue treatment,
and than after final finishing.

These pic' where showed on WC.

To make some soft spots or slightly soft wood better turnable, I will
take an amount of white glue and mix this with the same amount of
water, (50/50) rough turn my object, let dry for a day, then submerge
the rough turned wood in the 50/50 glue/water and let it sit in there
for a day or two, take it out and let it drip off for a few hours,
then put it in a paper bag and let it dry my regular way, after it's
dry, I turn it and sand and finish it with pure tung oil. Works for
me.

I have a picture of the finished bowl in this album, it's next to the
Buckthorn bowl, as "Siberian Elm Wood" so if you want to have a look
you can.

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum30.html

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

On Feb 1, 12:50 pm, "Olebiker" wrote:
On Jan 30, 1:38 pm, "
wrote:

Normally a gouge should give the better cut, but if you can't position
it to cut proper, a sharp scraper might do a better job, and SHARP on
a scraper is only good for seconds, don't turn the grinder off, it's
cut/sharpen/cut/sharpen/cut etc.

Neither a sharp gouge nor a sharp scraper seemed to work, so I spent a
little time last night working the the dreaded skew. By attacking the
endgrain horizontally rather than vertically I was able to get a very
smooth cut. It's going to take a lot of practice to get really
comfortable with the skew, and I can only use it on the outside of the
bowl, but I have great hopes for this method.

Dick Durbin
Tallahassee

[Bill Rubenstein]

My question would be -- how many trips to the emergency room does it
take to master the skew on the outside of a bowl.

The only thing more dangerous (and requiring more trips) might be using
it on the inside of the bowl.

And the "Spindle Roughing Gouge" is best left in the drawer also.

Bill



wrote:
Hi Dick

Dick skews are for spindle work, don't get hurt using the wrong tool
for the job !!!

I know you're not asking for this, but / and , and as you haven't
said what kind of wood you where turning, plus, I have used some
method to get a clean cut on a piece of wood that just would not cut
clean.

Case in point was a piece of spalted curly Elm that also a knot in it,
some would say, don't bother with bad wood, but I had tried this
thinned glue way of making some bad spots turnable.

And as some had asked how I did it, plus some skepticism was raised as
to the ability of finishing of the object afterward, I thought it was
a good idea to make some pictures.

I decided to make some pictures of the object after the initial rough-
out, than after finish turning after I had done the glue treatment,
and than after final finishing.

These pic' where showed on WC.

To make some soft spots or slightly soft wood better turnable, I will
take an amount of white glue and mix this with the same amount of
water, (50/50) rough turn my object, let dry for a day, then submerge
the rough turned wood in the 50/50 glue/water and let it sit in there
for a day or two, take it out and let it drip off for a few hours,
then put it in a paper bag and let it dry my regular way, after it's
dry, I turn it and sand and finish it with pure tung oil. Works for
me.

I have a picture of the finished bowl in this album, it's next to the
Buckthorn bowl, as "Siberian Elm Wood" so if you want to have a look
you can.

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum30.html

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

On Feb 1, 12:50 pm, "Olebiker" wrote:
On Jan 30, 1:38 pm, "
wrote:

Normally a gouge should give the better cut, but if you can't position
it to cut proper, a sharp scraper might do a better job, and SHARP on
a scraper is only good for seconds, don't turn the grinder off, it's
cut/sharpen/cut/sharpen/cut etc.
Neither a sharp gouge nor a sharp scraper seemed to work, so I spent a
little time last night working the the dreaded skew. By attacking the
endgrain horizontally rather than vertically I was able to get a very
smooth cut. It's going to take a lot of practice to get really
comfortable with the skew, and I can only use it on the outside of the
bowl, but I have great hopes for this method.

Dick Durbin
Tallahassee

[George]

"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
et...
My question would be -- how many trips to the emergency room does it take
to master the skew on the outside of a bowl.

The only thing more dangerous (and requiring more trips) might be using it
on the inside of the bowl.

And the "Spindle Roughing Gouge" is best left in the drawer also.

Bill

Amazing. Though I'm of the belief that there may have been more scraping
then cutting involved, I certainly would be interested in seeing the
technique. You grow by learning.

Some try to increase their stature by stepping on others....

[Olebiker]

On Feb 2, 5:43 am, "George" wrote:
Amazing. Though I'm of the belief that there may have been more scraping
then cutting involved, I certainly would be interested in seeing the
technique. You grow by learning.

The wood was birch. I presented the edge of the skew almost
vertically (maybe 5 degrees off).

I began by rubbing the bevel then rotating the handle outward until
the edge started to pick up. As I moved forward down the curve of the
bowl I had to rotate the handle further out to keep the edge
engaged.

This was merely a finishing cut after the forming had been done.
Since the edge was nearly vertical there was little chance of a catch
occurring. I tried emulating the same sort of cut with a bowl chisel
but could not get the same result.

I appreciate everyone's advise and concern for my safety. Back to the
drawing board.

Dick "no ER trips yet" Durbin

[George]

"Olebiker" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 2, 5:43 am, "George" wrote:
Amazing. Though I'm of the belief that there may have been more scraping
then cutting involved, I certainly would be interested in seeing the
technique. You grow by learning.

The wood was birch. I presented the edge of the skew almost
vertically (maybe 5 degrees off).

I began by rubbing the bevel then rotating the handle outward until
the edge started to pick up. As I moved forward down the curve of the
bowl I had to rotate the handle further out to keep the edge
engaged.

This was merely a finishing cut after the forming had been done.
Since the edge was nearly vertical there was little chance of a catch
occurring. I tried emulating the same sort of cut with a bowl chisel
but could not get the same result.

I appreciate everyone's advise and concern for my safety. Back to the
drawing board.

Dick "no ER trips yet" Durbin


It's the nose of the skew that causes concern for me. Were you trailing the
cut, so the nose remained above the surface, or nosing down? Straight
chisel would be safer.

I do similar with the nearly straight portion of a U -shaped gouge, but it
has the same problem of naturally ejecting when the bevel tries to stay
engaged at the heel on an out-sloping surface. Got to change angle of attack
and keep lifting the bevel to keep the tool in the work, even when the bevel
is fairly short. I've seen " famous-name" people associated with
straight-edge tools and end grain trimming, but I prefer the slight bit of
extra safety available by using a large radius gouge. Have to keep the
whole thing above center, and the ears out, but the grain pick-up is at the
bottom, or beginning of the cut, with a clean cut at the top, where the edge
is almost vertical.

In short, the edges are going out and away with a gouge, not straight as
with a chisel, or, and this I don't care to play with much - into the work
with a nose-up skew.

Try scraping gently, especially on wet wood.

[Arch]

Hi Dick, Glad you haven't needed to go to the ER. Unless TMH has changed
lately, you couldn't find a parking space anyway.


It's an old dodge seldom used these days, but If you have an old unused
shallow flute spindle gouge, say 3/4" or larger, you might want to try
regrinding the bevel 'upside down' on to the flute side.


With the new gouge flute side down flat on the tool rest with the edge
above center and just barely off rubbing, the wings will provide an
almost catch free angle for safely shearing the OUTSIDE of a bowl. Try
both pushing and pulling your new shearing tool along the rest, Just be
careful and take small bites. If you don't like it, I'll apologize and
regrind the bevel without too much lost metal. Have fun.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

[George]

"Arch" wrote in message
...
Hi Dick, Glad you haven't needed to go to the ER. Unless TMH has changed
lately, you couldn't find a parking space anyway.


It's an old dodge seldom used these days, but If you have an old unused
shallow flute spindle gouge, say 3/4" or larger, you might want to try
regrinding the bevel 'upside down' on to the flute side.


With the new gouge flute side down flat on the tool rest with the edge
above center and just barely off rubbing, the wings will provide an
almost catch free angle for safely shearing the OUTSIDE of a bowl. Try
both pushing and pulling your new shearing tool along the rest, Just be
careful and take small bites. If you don't like it, I'll apologize and
regrind the bevel without too much lost metal. Have fun.


Why regrind? Works great as a cutter.
http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...nt=Outside.flv
Second gouge.

[Arch]

George inquires, "Why regrind?" "Works great as a cutter."


WebTV won't take me to your reference so I hope you will discuss it a
little. I might be wrong, but for me regrinding and using flute side
down works even greater as a shearer. It does raise an interesting
question though. ie. When skewing or shearing with a double bevelled
tool, which bevel rules? I had thought mostly the one that rides the
blank, but both penetrate. I'm often wrong, but I'm willing to listen.



Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

[Darrell Feltmate]

Dick
You are a brave man. The thought of a skew cut on the outside of a bowl
brings back memories of beginning turning. I still have all my fingers but I
am not skewing a bowl again. I like to use a shear scraper on the outside of
a bowl. This is something I learned from a John Jordan video. He learned it
from Del stubbs who learned it from...
Any way, take a chisel and grind it about 20* back from corner to corner.
Grind the edge to about 45*. Run a slip stone over the back to remove any
burr and then push the slip stone edge against the bevel to raise a burr.
The tool is used almost vertical, certainly no more than 45*, and gently
drawn in the direction of the burr. Very fine shavings result.
I realize the directions are clear as mud. I will try to get a page up soon.

--

God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

[[email protected]]

On Feb 2, 4:59 pm, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:
Dick
You are a brave man. The thought of a skew cut on the outside of a bowl
brings back memories of beginning turning. I still have all my fingers but I
am not skewing a bowl again. I like to use a shear scraper on the outside of
a bowl. This is something I learned from a John Jordan video. He learned it
from Del stubbs who learned it from...
Any way, take a chisel and grind it about 20* back from corner to corner.
Grind the edge to about 45*. Run a slip stone over the back to remove any
burr and then push the slip stone edge against the bevel to raise a burr.
The tool is used almost vertical, certainly no more than 45*, and gently
drawn in the direction of the burr. Very fine shavings result.
I realize the directions are clear as mud. I will try to get a page up soon.

--

God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canadawww.aroundthewoods.com

Darrell, I for one am always interested in what you have to say. But
I have to tell you, you lost me on that one. I guess let us know when
you get the page!

Robert

[Darrell Feltmate]

Confusing? Can I be confusing? O yeah. :-)

--

God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com


wrote in message
ps.com...
On Feb 2, 4:59 pm, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:
Dick
You are a brave man. The thought of a skew cut on the outside of a bowl
brings back memories of beginning turning. I still have all my fingers
but I
am not skewing a bowl again. I like to use a shear scraper on the outside
of
a bowl. This is something I learned from a John Jordan video. He learned
it
from Del stubbs who learned it from...
Any way, take a chisel and grind it about 20* back from corner to corner.
Grind the edge to about 45*. Run a slip stone over the back to remove any
burr and then push the slip stone edge against the bevel to raise a burr.
The tool is used almost vertical, certainly no more than 45*, and gently
drawn in the direction of the burr. Very fine shavings result.
I realize the directions are clear as mud. I will try to get a page up
soon.

--

God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canadawww.aroundthewoods.com

Darrell, I for one am always interested in what you have to say. But
I have to tell you, you lost me on that one. I guess let us know when
you get the page!

Robert

[[email protected]]

Hi Robert

Shear scraping as it generally is called, you use a scraper on an
angle (skewed) if the the scraper is square across the end it is hard
to hold it on skewed angle, so some will grind the end of the scraper
skewed.

I use a round nose scraper for that, that way I can use it inside or
outside.

Like Darrell said, you hold the scraper at 45 to 50 degrees (or what
works for you) with the handle low, and at a angle to the wood so it
will scrape very fine, again scrapers need to be sharp and that last
only seconds.

Don't know if I did any better than Darrell, but I tried.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


On Feb 2, 8:58 pm, "
wrote:

Darrell, I for one am always interested in what you have to say. But
I have to tell you, you lost me on that one. I guess let us know when
you get the page!

Robert

[George]

"Arch" wrote in message
...
George inquires, "Why regrind?" "Works great as a cutter."


WebTV won't take me to your reference so I hope you will discuss it a
little. I might be wrong, but for me regrinding and using flute side
down works even greater as a shearer. It does raise an interesting
question though. ie. When skewing or shearing with a double bevelled
tool, which bevel rules? I had thought mostly the one that rides the
blank, but both penetrate. I'm often wrong, but I'm willing to listen.


The edge rules, as always. Joaz's in-cannel solution gives you the shear
angle I use with the large-radius gouges, even the back angle, since he
grinds in an arc around the nose. Difference is the cutting angle is much
lower with the bevel guided on the wood. Bevel won't guide when at a high
angle. It's the equivalent of using a low-angle plane for tough grain
versus the York pitch smoother.

The bevel gives good cough protection over a scraper. A cough pushes the
bevel into the work, not the edge, and the wood easily rejects it. Scrapers
work best with modest stock removal, and can escalate so rapidly with a bit
of pressure that a spouse announcing dinner can ruin an hour's worth of
bowl....

[BillR]

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:HnPwh.27882$Oa.5428@edtnps82...
Dick
You are a brave man.

Darrell if you think Dick is brave check this link.

http://sawg.org.nz/Galleries/members...ome%20page.htm

For those with WebTV it is like a square bowl turned so that the four wings
would touch the table but two bowls joined together at the rim so that there
would be eight wings (four pointing up and four on the table.) Apparently
the V between the upper and lower wings is cut with a skew chisel (a quick
shiver there as I typed this).

He then carves off three of the downward pointing wings and one of the
upward to get the shape shown.

Now you have to have a lot of nerve and a large amount of skill to do that.

BillR

[Olebiker]

On Feb 2, 5:59 pm, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:
Dick
You are a brave man. The thought of a skew cut on the outside of a bowl
brings back memories of beginning turning. I still have all my fingers but I
am not skewing a bowl again.

I went back to view the Richard Raffan video in which he turns a
lidded box. The lid is a curved shape, not unlike the outside of the
small bowls I am making. He seems to do OK with a skew.

What are your thoughts on Raffan's use of the skew?

Dick Durbin

[Ralph E Lindberg]

In article .com,
"Olebiker" wrote:

On Feb 2, 5:59 pm, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:
Dick
You are a brave man. The thought of a skew cut on the outside of a bowl
brings back memories of beginning turning. I still have all my fingers but I
am not skewing a bowl again.

I went back to view the Richard Raffan video in which he turns a
lidded box. The lid is a curved shape, not unlike the outside of the
small bowls I am making. He seems to do OK with a skew.

What are your thoughts on Raffan's use of the skew?

I've seen him do things with a skew that scare me, but then he is -lots-
better then me.

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv

[BillR]

"Olebiker" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 2, 5:59 pm, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:
Dick
You are a brave man. The thought of a skew cut on the outside of a bowl
brings back memories of beginning turning. I still have all my fingers
but I
am not skewing a bowl again.

I went back to view the Richard Raffan video in which he turns a
lidded box. The lid is a curved shape, not unlike the outside of the
small bowls I am making. He seems to do OK with a skew.

What are your thoughts on Raffan's use of the skew?

Dick Durbin


I have seen the video. He has the wood mounted with the grain parallel to
the lathe axis as in normal spindle turning. Are you end grain hollowing
your bowls?

BillR

[Darrell Feltmate]

A skew is what I would use on the outside of a box but boxes are usually
turned in spindle orientation while bowls have grain (usually) at 90* to the
lathe bed. Boxes are also generally smaller. If the bowl was a small
endgrain one then no problem, but with what you are describing as a changing
grain pattern, I assumed the bowl was turned in the usual fashion.

--

God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com


"Olebiker" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 2, 5:59 pm, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:
Dick
You are a brave man. The thought of a skew cut on the outside of a bowl
brings back memories of beginning turning. I still have all my fingers
but I
am not skewing a bowl again.

I went back to view the Richard Raffan video in which he turns a
lidded box. The lid is a curved shape, not unlike the outside of the
small bowls I am making. He seems to do OK with a skew.

What are your thoughts on Raffan's use of the skew?

Dick Durbin

[Olebiker]

I have seen the video. He has the wood mounted with the grain parallel to
the lathe axis as in normal spindle turning. Are you end grain hollowing
your bowls?

No, I have them mounted normally. Go back and take a look at the
video. The top of the lid is curved, not unlike the bottom of the
small bowls I am turning so, with each rotation of the blank, he is
presented twice with an endgrain situation.

[Mark Fitzsimmons]

Leo,
Looking at your page, I noticed "acer negundo" on one of the pictures,
but it looks like a picture of carob (Ceratonia siliqua). There is no
way that red wood is a boxelder maple.

On the other hand, I have turned a LOT of carob, from at least four or
five different carob trees, and that red stuff there sure looks
exactly like carob.



http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum30.html

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

[[email protected]]

Hi Mark

Thanks for looking at my Website, and the response.

Mark I have to inform you that to my chagrin, Carob trees do not grow
in this part of Canada or any other part of Canada that I am aware of.

It (the Ceratonia siliqua, a single species) does come from the
Eastern Mediterranean and requires a hot dry summers to do well, and
is only marginally frost hardy, so we have the hot summer for a short
while, but the frost is a little to harddy ;-)) up here, last night it
was well below 0.F.

You can have my "Manitoba Maple", if I can have your "Carob tree",
only the woody part, not the weather though.

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum30.html

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


On Feb 5, 2:47 pm, "Mark Fitzsimmons"
wrote:
Leo,
Looking at your page, I noticed "acer negundo" on one of the pictures,
but it looks like a picture of carob (Ceratonia siliqua). There is no
way that red wood is a boxelder maple.

On the other hand, I have turned a LOT of carob, from at least four or
five different carob trees, and that red stuff there sure looks
exactly like carob.



http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum30.html

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

[Ted]

Have you considered the possibility that the wood has already started
to rot? I have had this happen with both birch and maple. The wood
looked good until I started roughing it out. There was just enough
decay starting that the end grain would never turn clean. If that is
the case then it might not be worth using it for anything but fire
wood.

[[email protected]]

Hi Ted

Did you have a look at the shavings that the chainsaw made cutting
that wood ??, try doing that from rotting wood.
No it wasn't rotten, and yes it did have some soft areas on the
outside end, in my experience the Acer Negundo is never a hard wood to
start with, and when you find the red coloration, there is some bug
infestation, and quite often the wood is starting to rot or some parts
are, also I don't care for the smell, but that hasn't stopped me from
turning it, but I had/have so much wood already that all that wood was
donated to be raffled off for the wood turners club. made for some
nice Christmas presents.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


On Feb 6, 10:48 am, "Ted" wrote:
Have you considered the possibility that the wood has already started
to rot? I have had this happen with both birch and maple. The wood
looked good until I started roughing it out. There was just enough
decay starting that the end grain would never turn clean. If that is
the case then it might not be worth using it for anything but fire
wood.

[cad]

Hi Bill,
I like the other commentors, tried "termiting".

Man was I shocked into intimidatioin. That sucker will grab in a
heartbeat.

I studied on the design of this tool and made my own, finding a
carbide insert shaped like the business end of the termite. The
trouble was keeping the tool at a proper approach. If you got too
close to the corner where the bottom and the wall meet, watch out.

I went on to make scraping inserts for my homemade tool, that were
ground differently. They had only a slight "scoop" on top, and the
thickness was parallel with the wall so it would only let me go so
deep. I also added an outrigger to my tool shaft to stabalize the tool
so it would not tilt or roll to one side.

This produces a great finish on my end grain bottoms.

The bit is a flat top piece that is rounded, but at the cutting in, I
ground a slight angled cut. Wish I could draw what I am saying, but it
works like regular scapers do. But inside a bowl or cup, you dont have
room to angle a scraper handle way down, so that angle is ground in to
the tool bit. So the tool and bit are held horizontal, but you still
get a good approach angle.

The big thing is it stopped catches while cutting fine, smooth
shavings eliminating tear.

If you can get a tool designed for this, find some thick scraper bits
that fit it. Grind a relief angle just behind the cutting edge on the
top surface of the bit. Try that. Much safer and cleaner.

cad
handturnedbowls.biz
On Jan 30, 10:27 am, "Olebiker" wrote:
I have been roughing out bowls with green wood and am having a tough
time with end grain tear out. Does the end grain tear out less once
the wood is dry?