I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better off buying a course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone have any experience or advice for this project?

Thanks,

Mike

On 5/30/2016 5:04 PM, Michael wrote:
I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better off buying a course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone have any experience or advice for this project?

Too young/small to operate it, but watched my grandfather use a frame
saw to resaw. The old shop in England I worked in briefly had them, but
being low on the totem pole I wasn't allowed to use.

Lot of effort regardless, but if I were forced to do it, I would
investigate going that route. Probably big toothed, set to rip, and
sharp as possible.

I recall seeing numerous plans in years past in magazines. Internet has
to full of them.

I do know that making things by hand, with tools you also made, triples
the satisfaction factor.

Good luck.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"Michael" wrote in message
...

I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to
resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a
half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better off buying a
course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone have any
experience or advice for this project?

I'm sure others would have differing opinions, but here's my take on it:

For this type of work a rip saw is generally used and the tpi would
generally be in the 4-5 range. You need rather large gullets to clear the
swarf while resawing... If the stock is under saw 3" in width you could use
a rip saw with 6-7 tpi but I wouldn't even try resawing with anything finer
as the swarf would all but keep it from cutting. If you were ripping a board
to width the higher tpi saws can give fine results but for rough work even
there a 4-5 tpi saw would be preferred for speed.

Some examples include:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...=1,42884,63338
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/...l-saw-rip-cut-

or perhaps a rip frame saw:

http://www.blackburntools.com/new-to...ade/index.html
http://www.fine-tools.com/gestell.html

On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 6:05:18 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Michael" wrote in message
...

I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to
resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a
half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better off buying a
course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone have any
experience or advice for this project?

I'm sure others would have differing opinions, but here's my take on it:

For this type of work a rip saw is generally used and the tpi would
generally be in the 4-5 range. You need rather large gullets to clear the
swarf while resawing... If the stock is under saw 3" in width you could use
a rip saw with 6-7 tpi but I wouldn't even try resawing with anything finer
as the swarf would all but keep it from cutting. If you were ripping a board
to width the higher tpi saws can give fine results but for rough work even
there a 4-5 tpi saw would be preferred for speed.

Some examples include:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...=1,42884,63338
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/...l-saw-rip-cut-

or perhaps a rip frame saw:

http://www.blackburntools.com/new-to...ade/index.html
http://www.fine-tools.com/gestell.html

John and Swingman,

Thanks for the good direction! I've watched this video a couple of times and I think I'll make the kerf plane and the frame saw and go from there. The kerf plane is apparently this guy's own invention. It appears to work great. I probably won't go for the man bun though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtmswWZ4Lvo

Mike

On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 3:04:21 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a half to get the job done

You want a rip saw (or resharpen a saw to give it rip teeth). Me, I'd use a
table saw, making two nearly half-through cuts with a narrow kerf blade, then finish
the cut with a handsaw (it'll take some planing, too).

A rip saw (backless handsaw type) typically has 5 teeth/inch and no top bevel on the teeth.
They're fast and easy for rip-to-width chores, but resawing makes a lot more sawdust per inch.

Pros use bandsaws with rip blades, of course.

On 5/30/2016 6:04 PM, Michael wrote:
I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better off buying a course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone have any experience or advice for this project?

Thanks,

Mike


The current crop of saws are crosscut only. Get an old RIP saw. put a
file on the teeth and go for it.

--
Jeff

On 05/30/2016 5:04 PM, Michael wrote:
I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want
to resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year
and a half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better off
buying a course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone have
any experience or advice for this project?

What size stock are you starting with? Tage Frid would also have used
the frame saw, I'd give an advantage here to the Japanese "cut on pull"
design as being where the bowing isn't such an issue as w/ push w/
Western saws...

--

"Michael" wrote in message
...

John and Swingman,

Thanks for the good direction! I've watched this video a couple of times
and I think I'll make the kerf plane and the frame saw and go from there.
The kerf plane is apparently this guy's own invention. It appears to work
great. I probably won't go for the man bun though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtmswWZ4Lvo

Mike

Here's a video from my old haunt...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_cuVge6-o0

The two types of long hand saws - Rip and crosscut.
Almost everyone has a crosscut saw - it has teeth that are bent side to
side.

Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and
let it rip!

The crosscut cuts a wider kerf as the fibers are facing the blade and
will bind the saw if the kerf isn't wide enough.

Martin


On 5/30/2016 11:26 PM, Michael wrote:
On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 6:05:18 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Michael" wrote in message
...

I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to
resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a
half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better off buying a
course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone have any
experience or advice for this project?

I'm sure others would have differing opinions, but here's my take on it:

For this type of work a rip saw is generally used and the tpi would
generally be in the 4-5 range. You need rather large gullets to clear the
swarf while resawing... If the stock is under saw 3" in width you could use
a rip saw with 6-7 tpi but I wouldn't even try resawing with anything finer
as the swarf would all but keep it from cutting. If you were ripping a board
to width the higher tpi saws can give fine results but for rough work even
there a 4-5 tpi saw would be preferred for speed.

Some examples include:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...=1,42884,63338
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/...l-saw-rip-cut-

or perhaps a rip frame saw:

http://www.blackburntools.com/new-to...ade/index.html
http://www.fine-tools.com/gestell.html

John and Swingman,

Thanks for the good direction! I've watched this video a couple of times and I think I'll make the kerf plane and the frame saw and go from there. The kerf plane is apparently this guy's own invention. It appears to work great. I probably won't go for the man bun though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtmswWZ4Lvo

Mike

Set in the teeth makes it a crosscut. If you have a "saw set" a
tool like a Pliers with a anvil and a press pin that bends a tooth
to one side. Move and do every other one. Then rotate the saw and
work down the other teeth pressing them off center like the others.

To convert - press the teeth back into line - e.g. press the wrong tooth
to the center line working on both sides.

Martin

On 5/31/2016 10:09 AM, woodchucker wrote:
On 5/30/2016 6:04 PM, Michael wrote:
I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want
to resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a
year and a half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better
off buying a course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone
have any experience or advice for this project?

Thanks,

Mike


The current crop of saws are crosscut only. Get an old RIP saw. put a
file on the teeth and go for it.

On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 22:48:39 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

The two types of long hand saws - Rip and crosscut.
Almost everyone has a crosscut saw - it has teeth that are bent side to
side.

Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and
let it rip!

Rubbish, all saws have set on them otherwise they bind when cutting

The set should run between 1.2 and 1.6 of the blade on standard cross
cut/ panel saws or rip saws although some timbers might require a set
of 2.00 of the blade ( very rare )

You never set greater than this because the Centrex of the blade fails
to make contact with the timber properly , makes the saws cutting
action rough

You set the saw according to they type of timber and moisture
content, hence old joiners may have several handsaws hanging in the
shop

Generally speaking the drier the timber the less set is required.

If you need to wax up a saw on a regular basis to cut your saw is
incorrectly set or your using the wrong saw.





The crosscut cuts a wider kerf as the fibers are facing the blade and
will bind the saw if the kerf isn't wide enough.

Martin


On 5/30/2016 11:26 PM, Michael wrote:
On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 6:05:18 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Michael" wrote in message
...

I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to
resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a
half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better off buying a
course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone have any
experience or advice for this project?

I'm sure others would have differing opinions, but here's my take on it:

For this type of work a rip saw is generally used and the tpi would
generally be in the 4-5 range. You need rather large gullets to clear the
swarf while resawing... If the stock is under saw 3" in width you could use
a rip saw with 6-7 tpi but I wouldn't even try resawing with anything finer
as the swarf would all but keep it from cutting. If you were ripping a board
to width the higher tpi saws can give fine results but for rough work even
there a 4-5 tpi saw would be preferred for speed.

Some examples include:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...=1,42884,63338
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/...l-saw-rip-cut-

or perhaps a rip frame saw:

http://www.blackburntools.com/new-to...ade/index.html
http://www.fine-tools.com/gestell.html

John and Swingman,

Thanks for the good direction! I've watched this video a couple of times and I think I'll make the kerf plane and the frame saw and go from there. The kerf plane is apparently this guy's own invention. It appears to work great. I probably won't go for the man bun though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtmswWZ4Lvo

Mike

On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 22:57:52 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

Set in the teeth makes it a crosscut. If you have a "saw set" a
tool like a Pliers with a anvil and a press pin that bends a tooth
to one side. Move and do every other one. Then rotate the saw and
work down the other teeth pressing them off center like the others.


Both crosscut and rip have set



To convert - press the teeth back into line - e.g. press the wrong tooth
to the center line working on both sides.

How to ruin a saw , doing that can cause stress fractures in the base
of the tooth, if you wish to convert a crosscut to a rip for small
section timber you need to re cut the teeth set then sharpen

A converted saw is not really suitable for large scale ripping, the
blades are not generally thick enough to cope.

Better to buy a rip saw




Martin

On 5/31/2016 10:09 AM, woodchucker wrote:
On 5/30/2016 6:04 PM, Michael wrote:
I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want
to resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a
year and a half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better
off buying a course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone
have any experience or advice for this project?

Thanks,

Mike


The current crop of saws are crosscut only. Get an old RIP saw. put a
file on the teeth and go for it.

On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 11:52:05 +0100, steve robinson wrote:

Almost everyone has a crosscut saw - it has teeth that are bent side to
side.

Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and
let it rip!

Rubbish, all saws have set on them otherwise they bind when cutting

Agreed. Although Disston did make a 120 crosscut that had no set but a
tapered blade "for dry hardwoods only". But it hasn't been made for
almost 100 years :-).

Also Martin, crosscut and rip saws are sharpened differently. Rip saw
teeth are sharpened straight across and act like little chisels.
Crosscut teeth are sharpened at an angle and act like little knives.

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

On 06/02/2016 11:59 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
....

Also Martin, crosscut and rip saws are sharpened differently. Rip saw
teeth are sharpened straight across and act like little chisels.
Crosscut teeth are sharpened at an angle and act like little knives.

A pretty nice explanation/illustration page is at

http://blackburntools.com/articles/saw-tooth-geometry/index.html

There are, of course, the specialty "no set on a side" dudes for things
like trimming dowels flush and the like, but the general truth is indeed
w/ "no set, no saw" 'cuz you'll never be able to push it after the first
strokes get the barrel of the blade in the kerf with no clearance --
which of course, was the "trick" w/ the 120; the body was thinner than
the teeth to provide, if you will, "reverse set".

--

On 2016-06-02, dpb wrote:

A pretty nice explanation/illustration page is at

http://blackburntools.com/articles/saw-tooth-geometry/index.html

Thank you fer the link. Definitely clarifies what you folks have been
talking about.

nb

Michael wrote in
:

I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want
to resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a
year and a half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better
off buying a course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone
have any experience or advice for this project?

As everyone else has said, you need a ripsaw. Ripsaws are
available at the likes of Home Depot or Lowes for a fairly
low price; they are crap - the handles are so badly mis-shapen
your hands will cry in agony after 5 minutes use (as a rule
of thumb, if there's a straight line anywhere on handle, the
saw is worthless - doubly so if it's also plastic).

There are a few serious saw makers who offer saws sharpened
as ripsaws. They are not cheap.

The third alternative is to get an old saw from a flea market
or antique store and sharpen it. In my (limited) experience,
about 1 saw in 4 in "ye olde antique mall" is a rip saw, you'll
want to familiarize yourself with what a rip profile looks like
so you recognize the one you want. It is not difficult to
sharpen ripsaw teeth (crosscut is more complex, altho still not
difficult). You may find the available saws have had paint
slobbered over them by hack artists, but it can be scraped off.
A little rust is no problem, it will wear off in use and leave
a nice patina.

John

On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 12:35:48 -0500, dpb wrote:

A pretty nice explanation/illustration page is at

http://blackburntools.com/articles/saw-tooth-geometry/index.html

That's the best explanation I've ever seen - many thanks.

--
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

How old are you steve ? I've been using rip and crosscut
since 1952. This is before all of the fancy power junk that
splinter the wood.

I know what I'm talking about. Running along the grain is
smooth cutting and you will splinter the board if you use a crosscut.

Martin

On 6/2/2016 5:52 AM, steve robinson wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 22:48:39 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

The two types of long hand saws - Rip and crosscut.
Almost everyone has a crosscut saw - it has teeth that are bent side to
side.

Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and
let it rip!

Rubbish, all saws have set on them otherwise they bind when cutting

The set should run between 1.2 and 1.6 of the blade on standard cross
cut/ panel saws or rip saws although some timbers might require a set
of 2.00 of the blade ( very rare )

You never set greater than this because the Centrex of the blade fails
to make contact with the timber properly , makes the saws cutting
action rough

You set the saw according to they type of timber and moisture
content, hence old joiners may have several handsaws hanging in the
shop

Generally speaking the drier the timber the less set is required.

If you need to wax up a saw on a regular basis to cut your saw is
incorrectly set or your using the wrong saw.





The crosscut cuts a wider kerf as the fibers are facing the blade and
will bind the saw if the kerf isn't wide enough.

Martin


On 5/30/2016 11:26 PM, Michael wrote:
On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 6:05:18 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Michael" wrote in message
...

I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to
resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a
half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better off buying a
course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone have any
experience or advice for this project?

I'm sure others would have differing opinions, but here's my take on it:

For this type of work a rip saw is generally used and the tpi would
generally be in the 4-5 range. You need rather large gullets to clear the
swarf while resawing... If the stock is under saw 3" in width you could use
a rip saw with 6-7 tpi but I wouldn't even try resawing with anything finer
as the swarf would all but keep it from cutting. If you were ripping a board
to width the higher tpi saws can give fine results but for rough work even
there a 4-5 tpi saw would be preferred for speed.

Some examples include:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...=1,42884,63338
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/...l-saw-rip-cut-

or perhaps a rip frame saw:

http://www.blackburntools.com/new-to...ade/index.html
http://www.fine-tools.com/gestell.html

John and Swingman,

Thanks for the good direction! I've watched this video a couple of times and I think I'll make the kerf plane and the frame saw and go from there. The kerf plane is apparently this guy's own invention. It appears to work great. I probably won't go for the man bun though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtmswWZ4Lvo

Mike

Yes sharpened differently and set differently. Different saws.
Martin

On 6/2/2016 11:59 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 11:52:05 +0100, steve robinson wrote:

Almost everyone has a crosscut saw - it has teeth that are bent side to
side.

Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and
let it rip!

Rubbish, all saws have set on them otherwise they bind when cutting

Agreed. Although Disston did make a 120 crosscut that had no set but a
tapered blade "for dry hardwoods only". But it hasn't been made for
almost 100 years :-).

Also Martin, crosscut and rip saws are sharpened differently. Rip saw
teeth are sharpened straight across and act like little chisels.
Crosscut teeth are sharpened at an angle and act like little knives.

The rip has more of a wave in the teeth and they are
full width. Think of a hacksaw.

Crosscut are extreme bent and are sharp points.

Martin

On 6/2/2016 5:57 AM, steve robinson wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 22:57:52 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

Set in the teeth makes it a crosscut. If you have a "saw set" a
tool like a Pliers with a anvil and a press pin that bends a tooth
to one side. Move and do every other one. Then rotate the saw and
work down the other teeth pressing them off center like the others.


Both crosscut and rip have set



To convert - press the teeth back into line - e.g. press the wrong tooth
to the center line working on both sides.

How to ruin a saw , doing that can cause stress fractures in the base
of the tooth, if you wish to convert a crosscut to a rip for small
section timber you need to re cut the teeth set then sharpen

A converted saw is not really suitable for large scale ripping, the
blades are not generally thick enough to cope.

Better to buy a rip saw




Martin

On 5/31/2016 10:09 AM, woodchucker wrote:
On 5/30/2016 6:04 PM, Michael wrote:
I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want
to resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a
year and a half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better
off buying a course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone
have any experience or advice for this project?

Thanks,

Mike


The current crop of saws are crosscut only. Get an old RIP saw. put a
file on the teeth and go for it.

On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:02:44 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

Yes sharpened differently and set differently. Different saws.
Martin

On 6/2/2016 11:59 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 11:52:05 +0100, steve robinson wrote:

Almost everyone has a crosscut saw - it has teeth that are bent side to
side.

Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and
let it rip!

Rubbish, all saws have set on them otherwise they bind when cutting

Agreed. Although Disston did make a 120 crosscut that had no set but a
tapered blade "for dry hardwoods only". But it hasn't been made for
almost 100 years :-).

It wasnt very successful and most tradesmen of the day on re
sharpening added a small amount of set.
Also Martin, crosscut and rip saws are sharpened differently. Rip saw
teeth are sharpened straight across and act like little chisels.
Crosscut teeth are sharpened at an angle and act like little knives.

On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:01:41 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

How old are you steve ? I've been using rip and crosscut
since 1952. This is before all of the fancy power junk that
splinter the wood.

I know what I'm talking about. Running along the grain is
smooth cutting and you will splinter the board if you use a crosscut.

I never said use a crosscut for rip sawing

My information goes back to 1945 a carpentry manual written by JK Mc
Kay which i have just pulled off my bookshelf confirms what i have
said , i am a highly qualified professional carpenter joiner / cabinet
maker of a similar age to yourself , i still use many of the
traditional tools , have several disstons hanging on my shop wall,
wooden planes infact my pride and joy was a Disstons owned by my
grandfather handed down to my uncle who then he gave it to me Saw was
manufactured in 1880 , unfortunately some low life stole it along
with a boxed set of moulding planes (full set)

I too know what im talking about , i am a Fellow of the institute of
carpenters of some 30 years have worked on many historical
buildings.

The information is also freely available on several craft web sites.

Disstons was one of the first manufactures to hollow back his saws
which allowed for a lighter set giving a far better, more accurate cut
..

Steve






Martin

On 6/2/2016 5:52 AM, steve robinson wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 22:48:39 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

The two types of long hand saws - Rip and crosscut.
Almost everyone has a crosscut saw - it has teeth that are bent side to
side.

Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and
let it rip!

Rubbish, all saws have set on them otherwise they bind when cutting

The set should run between 1.2 and 1.6 of the blade on standard cross
cut/ panel saws or rip saws although some timbers might require a set
of 2.00 of the blade ( very rare )

You never set greater than this because the Centrex of the blade fails
to make contact with the timber properly , makes the saws cutting
action rough

You set the saw according to they type of timber and moisture
content, hence old joiners may have several handsaws hanging in the
shop

Generally speaking the drier the timber the less set is required.

If you need to wax up a saw on a regular basis to cut your saw is
incorrectly set or your using the wrong saw.





The crosscut cuts a wider kerf as the fibers are facing the blade and
will bind the saw if the kerf isn't wide enough.

Martin


On 5/30/2016 11:26 PM, Michael wrote:
On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 6:05:18 PM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Michael" wrote in message
...

I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to
resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a
half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better off buying a
course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone have any
experience or advice for this project?

I'm sure others would have differing opinions, but here's my take on it:

For this type of work a rip saw is generally used and the tpi would
generally be in the 4-5 range. You need rather large gullets to clear the
swarf while resawing... If the stock is under saw 3" in width you could use
a rip saw with 6-7 tpi but I wouldn't even try resawing with anything finer
as the swarf would all but keep it from cutting. If you were ripping a board
to width the higher tpi saws can give fine results but for rough work even
there a 4-5 tpi saw would be preferred for speed.

Some examples include:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...=1,42884,63338
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/...l-saw-rip-cut-

or perhaps a rip frame saw:

http://www.blackburntools.com/new-to...ade/index.html
http://www.fine-tools.com/gestell.html

John and Swingman,

Thanks for the good direction! I've watched this video a couple of times and I think I'll make the kerf plane and the frame saw and go from there. The kerf plane is apparently this guy's own invention. It appears to work great. I probably won't go for the man bun though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtmswWZ4Lvo

Mike

On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 21:01:41 -0500, Martin Eastburn wrote:

How old are you steve ? I've been using rip and crosscut since 1952.
This is before all of the fancy power junk that splinter the wood.

Martin,in your initial post in this thread you said:

"Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and let
it rip!"

That "without any set" is what prompted the replies. Maybe you meant
otherwise, but if not your experience seems lacking :-).

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

When you have set the teeth goes side to side.
An unset blade the teeth are full width and at most wave or are in line.
The hacksaw blade is one example of a wave blade.

The teeth on crosscut are triangles. Have sharp teeth and are not full
metal.

The teeth on a rip saw are full width of the blade.

Martin

On 6/3/2016 12:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 21:01:41 -0500, Martin Eastburn wrote:

How old are you steve ? I've been using rip and crosscut since 1952.
This is before all of the fancy power junk that splinter the wood.

Martin,in your initial post in this thread you said:

"Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and let
it rip!"

That "without any set" is what prompted the replies. Maybe you meant
otherwise, but if not your experience seems lacking :-).

On 06/03/2016 9:51 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
....

The teeth on a rip saw are full width of the blade.

But they're still _set_...

http://blackburntools.com/articles/saw-tooth-geometry/index.html

Fig. 3

--

Martin Eastburn wrote in
:

When you have set the teeth goes side to side.
An unset blade the teeth are full width and at most wave or are in
line. The hacksaw blade is one example of a wave blade.

You appear to have a unique definition of "set". Since
your definition is different from everyone else's, your
comments are hard to understand.

Hacksaw blades have set. It's not alternate tooth set as
would be done on a crosscut or ripsaw for wood, but the
teeth are still set.

The teeth on a rip saw are full width of the blade.

So are the teeth on a crosscut saw. As you say they are
triangles (viewed from the top), the trailing edge of the
triangle is full width of the blade.

John

No way near the set of a set tooth of a crosscut or Gen purpose blade.
Just because the whole tooth not a pointed one is shifted slightly
doesn't mean it is set. Set teeth alternate and are pointed for sharp
cutting of grain. Rip blades chop the grain and slide between strands
of the grain on the side of the saw.

Ripping is done in long power strokes.
Crosscutting is short and jerky strokes.
The pull saw was developed for more control in the crosscut.

Martin

On 6/4/2016 7:48 AM, dpb wrote:
On 06/03/2016 9:51 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
...

The teeth on a rip saw are full width of the blade.

But they're still _set_...

http://blackburntools.com/articles/saw-tooth-geometry/index.html

Fig. 3

--

On 6/4/2016 10:31 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Martin Eastburn wrote in
:

When you have set the teeth goes side to side.
An unset blade the teeth are full width and at most wave or are in
line. The hacksaw blade is one example of a wave blade.

You appear to have a unique definition of "set". Since
your definition is different from everyone else's, your
comments are hard to understand.

Hacksaw blades have set. It's not alternate tooth set as
would be done on a crosscut or ripsaw for wood, but the
teeth are still set.

The teeth on a rip saw are full width of the blade.

So are the teeth on a crosscut saw. As you say they are
triangles (viewed from the top), the trailing edge of the
triangle is full width of the blade.

John

John look at a tooth. Rip is full width and is all there.
A crosscut is angle cut to make and half of the metal is gone.

The shape and use of the tooth is completely different.

Martin

On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 7:24:15 PM UTC-7, Martin Eastburn wrote:
On 6/4/2016 10:31 AM, John McCoy wrote:

The teeth on a rip saw are full width of the blade.

So are the teeth on a crosscut saw. As you say they are
triangles (viewed from the top), the trailing edge of the
triangle is full width of the blade.

John look at a tooth. Rip is full width and is all there.
A crosscut is angle cut to make and half of the metal is gone.

The shape and use of the tooth is completely different.

The way to tell isn't to squint at the teeth; rather, make a cut and
look at the kerf. A ripsaw makes a flat-bottom kerf, because
the teeth are chisel-like with the edge perpendicular to the cut,
while crosscut teeth have alternate bevel (makes a 'W' bottom kerf).

Martin Eastburn wrote in news:gfq5z.2921$A%
:

John look at a tooth. Rip is full width and is all there.
A crosscut is angle cut to make and half of the metal is gone.

The shape and use of the tooth is completely different.

Martin, nobody in this thread has disputed that the shape
of rip teeth and crosscut teeth are different.

What you are insisting, which is wrong, and which everyone
has been trying to politely correct you, is that rip teeth
have no set. That is simply wrong. Rip teeth have set.
Hacksaw teeth have set. Pretty much every tooth on every
saw has set(*).

(* the exceptions are when the tooth is wider than the blade,
as is the case with most power saw blades; or things like
felling saws where the raker teeth are not set).

John

Martin Eastburn wrote in news:_bq5z.21113
:

Crosscutting is short and jerky strokes.

This is a ridiculous statement. I don't beleive you have
ever even used a handsaw.

John

whit3rd wrote in news:db7461bc-8683-4d47-b918-
:

The way to tell isn't to squint at the teeth; rather, make a cut and
look at the kerf. A ripsaw makes a flat-bottom kerf, because
the teeth are chisel-like with the edge perpendicular to the cut,
while crosscut teeth have alternate bevel (makes a 'W' bottom kerf).

Well, that would work. But on a sharp saw, the difference
between a rip tooth and a crosscut doesn't need squinting,
the reflection off a crosscut tooth is pretty obvious.

John

On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 21:20:30 -0500, Martin Eastburn wrote:

Just because the whole tooth not a pointed one is shifted slightly
doesn't mean it is set.

As others have pointed out, you seem to have your own definition of set.

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

On 6/7/2016 9:42 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Martin Eastburn wrote in news:gfq5z.2921$A%
:

John look at a tooth. Rip is full width and is all there.
A crosscut is angle cut to make and half of the metal is gone.

The shape and use of the tooth is completely different.

Martin, nobody in this thread has disputed that the shape
of rip teeth and crosscut teeth are different.

What you are insisting, which is wrong, and which everyone
has been trying to politely correct you, is that rip teeth
have no set. That is simply wrong. Rip teeth have set.
Hacksaw teeth have set. Pretty much every tooth on every
saw has set(*).

(* the exceptions are when the tooth is wider than the blade,
as is the case with most power saw blades; or things like
felling saws where the raker teeth are not set).

John



Another certain exception are some styles of jig saw blades. Many of
the ones I use have no set and leave an almost burnished surface.

On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 12:09:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/7/2016 9:42 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Martin Eastburn wrote in news:gfq5z.2921$A%
:

John look at a tooth. Rip is full width and is all there.
A crosscut is angle cut to make and half of the metal is gone.

The shape and use of the tooth is completely different.

Martin, nobody in this thread has disputed that the shape
of rip teeth and crosscut teeth are different.

What you are insisting, which is wrong, and which everyone
has been trying to politely correct you, is that rip teeth
have no set. That is simply wrong. Rip teeth have set.
Hacksaw teeth have set. Pretty much every tooth on every
saw has set(*).

(* the exceptions are when the tooth is wider than the blade,
as is the case with most power saw blades; or things like
felling saws where the raker teeth are not set).

John



Another certain exception are some styles of jig saw blades. Many of
the ones I use have no set and leave an almost burnished surface.

Not very long lasting though and useless in anything over 25mm

On 6/7/2016 1:53 PM, steve robinson wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 12:09:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/7/2016 9:42 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Martin Eastburn wrote in news:gfq5z.2921$A%
:

John look at a tooth. Rip is full width and is all there.
A crosscut is angle cut to make and half of the metal is gone.

The shape and use of the tooth is completely different.

Martin, nobody in this thread has disputed that the shape
of rip teeth and crosscut teeth are different.

What you are insisting, which is wrong, and which everyone
has been trying to politely correct you, is that rip teeth
have no set. That is simply wrong. Rip teeth have set.
Hacksaw teeth have set. Pretty much every tooth on every
saw has set(*).

(* the exceptions are when the tooth is wider than the blade,
as is the case with most power saw blades; or things like
felling saws where the raker teeth are not set).

John



Another certain exception are some styles of jig saw blades. Many of
the ones I use have no set and leave an almost burnished surface.

Not very long lasting though and useless in anything over 25mm


Regardless they are quite common and useful.

They last long enough, I have been using them for 15+ years.
And FWIW jigsawing over an inch thick is pretty much using the wrong
saw. I prefer quality of cut over longevity.

Only for 67 years. I have my 67 year old saw in the shop. I'ts about
1/3 of the size of the full size.

Martin

On 6/7/2016 9:43 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Martin Eastburn wrote in news:_bq5z.21113
:

Crosscutting is short and jerky strokes.

This is a ridiculous statement. I don't beleive you have
ever even used a handsaw.

John

What is your definition of set ?

I have saws from 1/3 size to full size to double buck size. And a pull
saw for backup.

Martin

On 6/7/2016 11:29 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 21:20:30 -0500, Martin Eastburn wrote:

Just because the whole tooth not a pointed one is shifted slightly
doesn't mean it is set.

As others have pointed out, you seem to have your own definition of set.

That matches what I say.

On 6/7/2016 2:22 AM, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 7:24:15 PM UTC-7, Martin Eastburn wrote:
On 6/4/2016 10:31 AM, John McCoy wrote:

The teeth on a rip saw are full width of the blade.

So are the teeth on a crosscut saw. As you say they are
triangles (viewed from the top), the trailing edge of the
triangle is full width of the blade.

John look at a tooth. Rip is full width and is all there.
A crosscut is angle cut to make and half of the metal is gone.

The shape and use of the tooth is completely different.

The way to tell isn't to squint at the teeth; rather, make a cut and
look at the kerf. A ripsaw makes a flat-bottom kerf, because
the teeth are chisel-like with the edge perpendicular to the cut,
while crosscut teeth have alternate bevel (makes a 'W' bottom kerf).

look at a pull blade. The teeth are withing the width of the metal.
The rip has a tiny set. A cross cut you have a tool that puts set and
it is a strong set. You press the handle together and a tongue presses
in to a slot of the anvil. This is a setting tool. Every other tooth,
then rotate the saw and align and press the other teeth. The trick is
to get the proper tooth in the proper bent position and all at the same
amount or the job is jerky. Many saws are flopped down on a bench and
the set starts to get out of align. If you don't sharpen and set your
own tools you will never know.

The problem is set is set or set isn't set. One has to measure with a
finer instrument to measure the set in a rip. The set is very tiny so
it doesn't tear the side grain and keeps a cleaner cut.

The crosscut does that cuts back and forth ripping and tearing and
shearing. It is fighting fiber strands on every tooth. The strands
grip the sides of the blade. One wants a wide kerf for an easy cut.

We used to set saws before a job. We sawed many a sheet of plywood to
make book cases long before fancy power tools came to the home owner.

Martin

On 6/7/2016 9:42 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Martin Eastburn wrote in news:gfq5z.2921$A%
:

John look at a tooth. Rip is full width and is all there.
A crosscut is angle cut to make and half of the metal is gone.

The shape and use of the tooth is completely different.

Martin, nobody in this thread has disputed that the shape
of rip teeth and crosscut teeth are different.

What you are insisting, which is wrong, and which everyone
has been trying to politely correct you, is that rip teeth
have no set. That is simply wrong. Rip teeth have set.
Hacksaw teeth have set. Pretty much every tooth on every
saw has set(*).

(* the exceptions are when the tooth is wider than the blade,
as is the case with most power saw blades; or things like
felling saws where the raker teeth are not set).

John