On 3/1/2014 11:45 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I proceeded to make the four pieces. It was remarkably quick and I like
the results. Fun too. I can already see ways that I might have improved
the process. I will definitely be doing more of this sort of thing in
the future.

Just a few, of dozens, curve making concepts:

Download SU 2014, there are a couple of new ways to make arcs.

Use the SU "Bezier Curve" plug-in to make your curves.

Cut a 1/8" thick strip off the edge of a board long enough to make your
curve; drill a small hole in each end and use a piece of string, like a
bow string, to bend the strip to the proper curve, thusly:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/images/i...520s1b.jpg?c=2


Using that same thin strip, hammer in some small finish nails in the
appropriate spots to bend the strip around for the curve you want.

Use purchased or homemade pencil compasses of various sizes to make your
curves.

Cheap plastic "French Curves", available at any office supply store, of
various sizes are hard to beat for laying out curves, particularly when
using it in conjunction with that compass, or the appropriate sizes edge
of a can, a lid or a bucket.

A "pattern maker's rasp" is a nice thing to have when fairing curves in
your template.

When fairing a curve, cut a thin, flexible strip off the edge of a scrap
board and glue your sandpaper to that. Putting little wooden
"knobs/blocks" on each end makes it easier to hold and to keep the
faired edges perpendicular to the face.

Often attaching sandpaper on the edge of the off cut when rough cutting
your curve will make a good fairing tool.

An "oscillating spindle sander" is a good investment if you are going to
be doing furniture with a lot of curved parts. Great for both making
your templates, and for smoothing/making perpindicular the curve edges
in the work piece.

Most important: Make the effort, and take all the time you need, to make
your curved templates PERFECT, for you will eventually save more time in
its use than you will in the making of it.

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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 3/2/2014 9:10 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 3/1/2014 11:45 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I proceeded to make the four pieces. It was remarkably quick and I like
the results. Fun too. I can already see ways that I might have improved
the process. I will definitely be doing more of this sort of thing in
the future.

Just a few, of dozens, curve making concepts:

Download SU 2014, there are a couple of new ways to make arcs.

Use the SU "Bezier Curve" plug-in to make your curves.

That's the one I used. It worked well.

Cut a 1/8" thick strip off the edge of a board long enough to make your
curve; drill a small hole in each end and use a piece of string, like a
bow string, to bend the strip to the proper curve, thusly:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/images/i...520s1b.jpg?c=2

I read somewhere about making the strip wider at one end, or in the
middle, to change the natural shape of the curve. (it curves more
tightly where it is narrow).

Using that same thin strip, hammer in some small finish nails in the
appropriate spots to bend the strip around for the curve you want.

Use purchased or homemade pencil compasses of various sizes to make your
curves.

Cheap plastic "French Curves", available at any office supply store, of
various sizes are hard to beat for laying out curves,

We used those in drafting class back in junior high. I can scarcely
imagine the trouble I could get myself into with one of those now.

particularly when
using it in conjunction with that compass, or the appropriate sizes edge
of a can, a lid or a bucket.

My first thought was to search around the house for the proper-sized
object.

A "pattern maker's rasp" is a nice thing to have when fairing curves in
your template.

When fairing a curve, cut a thin, flexible strip off the edge of a scrap
board and glue your sandpaper to that. Putting little wooden
"knobs/blocks" on each end makes it easier to hold and to keep the
faired edges perpendicular to the face.

Cutting thin flexible strips is not my strong suit, but you've given me
some ideas.

Often attaching sandpaper on the edge of the off cut when rough cutting
your curve will make a good fairing tool.

I thought of that, but the material I used was pretty thin. I also
thought of gluing sandpaper onto the side of the block.

An "oscillating spindle sander" is a good investment if you are going to
be doing furniture with a lot of curved parts. Great for both making
your templates, and for smoothing/making perpindicular the curve edges
in the work piece.

Definitely the tool I knew I was making up for the lack of. I had
considered jury-rigging a drill with one of those cylindrical sanding
attachments through a hole in a piece of scrap, but doing it by hand
worked out pretty well for now.

Most important: Make the effort, and take all the time you need, to make
your curved templates PERFECT, for you will eventually save more time in
its use than you will in the making of it.

As I mentioned, the process was much easier than I had expected, which
"inspired" me to make the second attempt.

Thanks for the tips. Now to try my hand at the stopped dados. Good thing
I still have the template; I may need to remake the parts.

I had considered making the dados first, by the way, so I'd be working
on rectangular stock. Time will tell if that would have saved me some
grief.



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"Greg Guarino" wrote in message


This time I jigsawed the MDF a little closer to the line.
I got to thinking about how I could keep the template edge square.
I laid the mdf on a piece of scrap and turned the file edge-down on the
(sacrificial) work surface, hoping that would keep the file face plumb.

Actually, templates don't HAVE to be square. It is nice if they are but as
long as the template has a continuous diameter/shape for the bearingto ride
on, you are good to go...it is going to follow the most outward part of the
template, isn't going to wobble in and out if the template isn't square.
That assumes you are keeping the router flat and not tipping it.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

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Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
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I really am having a productive weekend, by my standards anyway.
Yesterday I cut some project parts using a router template that I made,
a first for me. Today, another new adventure.

As suggested by Swingman, I redesigned my kitchen shelf unit using
stopped dadoes.:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/12861854444/

My task for today was to figure out a way to make them. I don't have
dado blades, chiefly because I don't have a saw to put them on. I make
dadoes with a router and a jig I built a couple of projects back. I
decided to try to modify the jig with some sort of "stop". Here's what I
came up with:

I made a stop that would fit in the channel of the jig out of scrap:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/12861854444/

The "tab" is to support the stop above the work. Note also the screw in
the end of the stop:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...n/photostream/

That was to provide some fine adjustability. The screw butts up against
a fixed block that I screwed in at the far end of the channel. I used
one of the shelves that will mate with the stopped dado to set the length:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...n/photostream/

I screwed the whole jig into the work surface and screwed in a "fence"
to the left of the jig for the work pieces to butt up against (for
repeatability). Too bad I could only "repeat" twice with that setup; the
other two pieces had to be mirror images, requiring me to reconfigure
the "fence" on the other side.

I also (re-)discovered what I assume is an unavoidable part of
woodworking. I spent the better part of two hours thinking up, building
and modifying the jig. Then 2 minutes actually making each cut. I guess
that's a good thing; it means the setup was easy to use. Here's video of
the brief, most rewarding part of the process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85HD7...ature=youtu.be

Hey, you can even see me almost make a big mistake.

Next up: squaring up the ends of the dadoes.



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[Oops, the previous post had a bad link]

I really am having a productive weekend, by my standards anyway.
Yesterday I cut some project parts using a router template that I made,
a first for me. Today, another new adventure.

As suggested by Swingman, I redesigned my kitchen shelf unit using
stopped dadoes.:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/12861854444/

My task for today was to figure out a way to make them. I don't have
dado blades, chiefly because I don't have a saw to put them on. I make
dadoes with a router and a jig I built a couple of projects back. I
decided to try to modify the jig with some sort of "stop". Here's what I
came up with:

I made a stop that would fit in the channel of the jig out of scrap:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/12889846435/

The "tab" is to support the stop above the work. Note also the screw in
the end of the stop:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...n/photostream/

That was to provide some fine adjustability. The screw butts up against
a fixed block that I screwed in at the far end of the channel. I used
one of the shelves that will mate with the stopped dado to set the length:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...n/photostream/

I screwed the whole jig into the work surface and screwed in a "fence"
to the left of the jig for the work pieces to butt up against (for
repeatability). Too bad I could only "repeat" twice with that setup; the
other two pieces had to be mirror images, requiring me to reconfigure
the "fence" on the other side.

I also (re-)discovered what I assume is an unavoidable part of
woodworking. I spent the better part of two hours thinking up, building
and modifying the jig. Then 2 minutes actually making each cut. I guess
that's a good thing; it means the setup was easy to use. Here's video of
the brief, most rewarding part of the process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85HD7...ature=youtu.be

Hey, you can even see me almost make a big mistake.

Next up: squaring up the ends of the dadoes.



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On 3/2/2014 4:49 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I also (re-)discovered what I assume is an unavoidable part of
woodworking. I spent the better part of two hours thinking up, building
and modifying the jig. Then 2 minutes actually making each cut. I guess
that's a good thing; it means the setup was easy to use.

Well done!

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 3/2/2014 5:41 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I really am having a productive weekend, by my standards anyway.
Yesterday I cut some project parts using a router template that I made,
a first for me. Today, another new adventure.

As suggested by Swingman, I redesigned my kitchen shelf unit using
stopped dadoes.:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/12861854444/

My task for today was to figure out a way to make them. I don't have
dado blades, chiefly because I don't have a saw to put them on. I make
dadoes with a router and a jig I built a couple of projects back. I
decided to try to modify the jig with some sort of "stop". Here's what I
came up with:

I made a stop that would fit in the channel of the jig out of scrap:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/12861854444/

The "tab" is to support the stop above the work. Note also the screw in
the end of the stop:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...n/photostream/

That was to provide some fine adjustability. The screw butts up against
a fixed block that I screwed in at the far end of the channel. I used
one of the shelves that will mate with the stopped dado to set the length:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...n/photostream/

I screwed the whole jig into the work surface and screwed in a "fence"
to the left of the jig for the work pieces to butt up against (for
repeatability). Too bad I could only "repeat" twice with that setup; the
other two pieces had to be mirror images, requiring me to reconfigure
the "fence" on the other side.

I also (re-)discovered what I assume is an unavoidable part of
woodworking. I spent the better part of two hours thinking up, building
and modifying the jig. Then 2 minutes actually making each cut. I guess
that's a good thing; it means the setup was easy to use. Here's video of
the brief, most rewarding part of the process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85HD7...ature=youtu.be

Hey, you can even see me almost make a big mistake.

Next up: squaring up the ends of the dadoes.



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Cool. Welcome to the wonderful world of jigs, and now you will find out
how quickly your space will fill with them :-0

--
Jeff

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message


Next up: squaring up the ends of the dadoes.

There is certainly nothing wrong in doing that but there is no particuar
reason to do so as whatever goes into the dado can hide the minor gap if the
dado end is left rounded.

Personally, I leave them rounded, would rather do something else with the
time it takes to square them.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 3/3/2014 7:48 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message


Next up: squaring up the ends of the dadoes.

There is certainly nothing wrong in doing that but there is no particuar
reason to do so as whatever goes into the dado can hide the minor gap if the
dado end is left rounded.

Personally, I leave them rounded, would rather do something else with the
time it takes to square them.

I'm not sure what you mean. I made the dadoes with a 1/2" diameter bit,
thus the corners are rounded with a 1/4" radius. Unless I notch the ends
of the shelves (which seems like at least as much work as squaring the
corners), the gap will be visible.

Here's the design:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...57641733510634

The stopped dadoes hold the small lower shelves.

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On 3/3/2014 9:05 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/3/2014 7:48 AM, dadiOH wrote:
....

Personally, I leave them rounded, would rather do something else with the
time it takes to square them.

I'm not sure what you mean. I made the dadoes with a 1/2" diameter bit,
thus the corners are rounded with a 1/4" radius. Unless I notch the ends
of the shelves (which seems like at least as much work as squaring the
corners), the gap will be visible.
....

It's generally quicker to cut a small rabbet in the end of the shelf
than to clean up the end of the dado...all it takes is a dovetail saw
and the perhaps a quick cleanup/pare to line w/ a (sharp) chisel. This
is all outside work as opposed to squaring up the dado with all chisel
work. If the size of the piece isn't too large you can also cut them
out on the tablesaw.

But in the end, it's your choice...

--

On 3/3/2014 10:05 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/3/2014 7:48 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message


Next up: squaring up the ends of the dadoes.

There is certainly nothing wrong in doing that but there is no particuar
reason to do so as whatever goes into the dado can hide the minor gap
if the
dado end is left rounded.

Personally, I leave them rounded, would rather do something else with the
time it takes to square them.

I'm not sure what you mean. I made the dadoes with a 1/2" diameter bit,
thus the corners are rounded with a 1/4" radius. Unless I notch the ends
of the shelves (which seems like at least as much work as squaring the
corners), the gap will be visible.
You should notch the ends. That will be the proper way to do a stopped dado.


Here's the design:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...57641733510634

The stopped dadoes hold the small lower shelves.

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--
Jeff

Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/3/2014 7:48 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message


Next up: squaring up the ends of the dadoes.

There is certainly nothing wrong in doing that but there is no
particuar reason to do so as whatever goes into the dado can hide
the minor gap if the dado end is left rounded.

Personally, I leave them rounded, would rather do something else
with the time it takes to square them.

I'm not sure what you mean. I made the dadoes with a 1/2" diameter
bit, thus the corners are rounded with a 1/4" radius. Unless I notch the
ends of the shelves (which seems like at least as much work as squaring
the
corners), the gap will be visible.


Nope - just cut back the leading shoulder and let the shoulder cover that
rounded part.

--

-Mike-

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

On 3/3/2014 7:48 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message


Next up: squaring up the ends of the dadoes.

There is certainly nothing wrong in doing that but
there is no particuar reason to do so as whatever goes
into the dado can hide the minor gap if the dado end is
left rounded. Personally, I leave them rounded, would rather do
something else with the time it takes to square them.

I'm not sure what you mean. I made the dadoes with a 1/2"
diameter bit, thus the corners are rounded with a 1/4" radius. Unless I
notch the ends of the shelves

As everyone else said, right, that's what one does.

(which seems like at least as much work as
squaring the corners),

It's not, a moment or so with a dozuki or other similar and you are
finished. An added benefit is that you can gain some wiggle room viv a vis
the dado and what's going into it...dado too long?, notch covers it...dado
too short?, cut a longer notch.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 3/3/2014 3:02 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

On 3/3/2014 7:48 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message


Next up: squaring up the ends of the dadoes.

There is certainly nothing wrong in doing that but
there is no particuar reason to do so as whatever goes
into the dado can hide the minor gap if the dado end is
left rounded. Personally, I leave them rounded, would rather do
something else with the time it takes to square them.

I'm not sure what you mean. I made the dadoes with a 1/2"
diameter bit, thus the corners are rounded with a 1/4" radius. Unless I
notch the ends of the shelves

As everyone else said, right, that's what one does.

(which seems like at least as much work as
squaring the corners),

It's not, a moment or so with a dozuki or other similar and you are
finished. An added benefit is that you can gain some wiggle room viv a vis
the dado and what's going into it...dado too long?, notch covers it...dado
too short?, cut a longer notch.

Well then. That's interesting. I may have cut the dado too "perfectly"
(lengthwise) to cover it the way you suggest. But your way would have
made it easier to set up the dado. Thanks for the tip.

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In article , dadiOH wrote:
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message


Next up: squaring up the ends of the dadoes.

There is certainly nothing wrong in doing that but there is no particuar
reason to do so as whatever goes into the dado can hide the minor gap if the
dado end is left rounded.

Personally, I leave them rounded, would rather do something else with the
time it takes to square them.



I also just leave them as is most of the time; an alternative is to round
over the portion of the board that fits in the dado. A rasp works well
and quickly.



--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

On 2/25/2014 7:59 AM, Swingman wrote:

Learned long ago that if you do enough pattern routing, using a template
and pattern bit, there will be the occasional incident due to grain
direction/wood imperfections where a workpiece is subject to being
grabbed, resulting in a ruined work piece and often a ruined template,
and double sided tape is not enough of a defense when this happen as far
as safety goes.

It pays to keep in mind that Murphy is always lurking when routing, and
if safety is not reason enough over design engineer a pattern jig,
saving that last piece of expensive stock from harm is enough reason by
itself.

I do a lot of pattern routing, and always make my routing templates as a
"jig", whereby I can secure the work piece with clamps (see below) on at
least two sides, and preferably three, both for security purposes, and
for at least one side acting as a reference edge for accuracy. I also
like to have a handhold that I can grasp securely for obvious reasons.

I also make the routing "template jigs" out of MDF and/or plywood due to
the softness of the material should the worst happen and it comes into
contact with the router bit.

With curved parts, I much prefer MDF, as it is much easier to fair a
curve in that material. I will also often "edge band" the curve if I
want longevity of the curved pattern for multiple parts.

See the "eWoodShop - Whiskey Barrel Base" just posted.

Was thinking about your original post when I was making the jig to do
the curved bottom on profiled trim for the sides of the whiskey barrel
bases, so added a couple of extra photos illustrating the above:


https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...e?noredirect=1

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Got this in FWW's email letter this morning:

SUBJECT:Ultimate routing jig

Not that I necessarily think this is, as they say in their email, the
"ultimate" pattern routing jig; and I can say with certainly that I
don't think it is all that "clever" for a number of reasons - lack of
adaptability to size and provisions for backing up edges to prevent
tearout are a couple - nonetheless thought it was definitely germane to
this discussion and might be useful to have in your bag of tricks:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-t...orking-eletter

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 6/7/2014 12:07 PM, Swingman wrote:
Got this in FWW's email letter this morning:

SUBJECT:Ultimate routing jig

Not that I necessarily think this is, as they say in their email, the
"ultimate" pattern routing jig; and I can say with certainly that I
don't think it is all that "clever" for a number of reasons - lack of
adaptability to size and provisions for backing up edges to prevent
tearout are a couple - nonetheless thought it was definitely germane to
this discussion and might be useful to have in your bag of tricks:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-t...orking-eletter


I was thinking about a more reusable jig when I made the two different
sets of pattern-routed parts. But it wasn't that difficult to simply
remake the jig in my case.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57644207411490

I made my MDF templates oversized, with a generous margin around three
sides. That made it easy to simply screw in the fence pieces from
underneath. I did need to countersink them, which added a step, but it
was still very quick.

Here are my (relatively uninformed) concerns about the Fine Woodworking
jig.

1. The toggle clamps are at a fixed distance apart. In the picture on
this page

http://www.finewoodworking.com/works...n-routing.aspx

the clamps look too close together for the span of the piece, at least
to me. I'd worry about something moving as the grain changed. Since they
have the clamps on blocks, rather than on a continuous piece of wood,
they'd be a drag to move. If I were to make something like this, I think
I'd make the clamps more easily movable.

2. There's no "end fence".
It seems to me that you'd get more repeatable (or at least quicker)
registration with an end fence of some kind rather than lining up the
template and the work by eye.

3. The router bit has to protrude further from the table. Does this
matter? Or, more personally, does it matter if your router table setup
is less than top quality? I'm not sure.

4. You can't see the work, without a mirror, anyway. I'm not sure why,
but I liked seeing the work piece itself, at least the top edge, as the
router did its job.

Having said all that, it does give me some interesting ideas. Thanks.

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On Thursday, February 27, 2014 9:03:11 AM UTC-8, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 10:48:40 -0500, dadiOH wrote:



Paper? What kind of glue? I haven't heard of this method.

Most any paper...wrapping paper, butcher paper, newspaper, notebook
paper, etc.

Brown paper grocery bags are used the most. They are strong enough ...
Just hit with a mallet or pry with a chisel.

My favorite is painters' masking paper; doesn't soak up much glue,
maintains integrity with any of the glues I could use. The
only papers that wouldn't work are waxed, painted, or wrinkled.

It forms a perfect grain line, and splits off SO nice...

On 6/9/2014 12:58 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

3. The router bit has to protrude further from the table. Does this
matter? Or, more personally, does it matter if your router table setup
is less than top quality? I'm not sure.

If I understand your question.

Not so much how high above the table, but how much the bit is not in the
collet to get the height you need.

Best to go to longer bits, and 1/2" shanks and collets, if you need to
get excess height, as you stand a better chance of less flex and run out
causing problems, not to mention the danger of a bit coming loose.

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On 6/10/2014 7:59 PM, Swingman wrote:
Best to go to longer bits, and 1/2" shanks and collets, if you need to
get excess height, as you stand a better chance of less flex and run out
causing problems, not to mention the danger of a bit coming loose.

Exactly the things I was wondering about. Someday I intend to build a
router table and get a better router to put in it. But for now, it's
1/4" collets. I think I'll stick with my jig method for the moment.

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On 6/11/2014 6:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 6/10/2014 7:59 PM, Swingman wrote:
Best to go to longer bits, and 1/2" shanks and collets, if you need to
get excess height, as you stand a better chance of less flex and run out
causing problems, not to mention the danger of a bit coming loose.

Exactly the things I was wondering about. Someday I intend to build a
router table and get a better router to put in it. But for now, it's
1/4" collets. I think I'll stick with my jig method for the moment.

For years I used an insert, in a flat piece of plywood, between two
sawhorses to pretty good effect.

The biggest factors in doing it that way are time and precision.

If you have the time to futz with settings to get the precision you
need, than it is certainly an option to get you started on using a
"router table".

Two most important things for me, and the way I use a router table, are
the rigidity and stability of the top and insert; and the ability to
easily dial in the bit height.

Thus, and after finally having one, for me a "router lift" is an
absolute necessity to get the most out of a router table setup for what
I use one for.

With those two parameters taken care of, you can always build the actual
table later.

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