Just took the van to pick up some stuff.
Noticed the brakes sounded like they had a stone in them.

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads.
You can't find anyone to resurface rotors anymore.

As a matter of fact NAPA told me the town prohibited them from turning
drums and rotors. They wanted them to build a separate out building for it.

Anyway in one year the Chinese ****ty rotors are gone. I used OEM
Toyota pads, I checked the calipers are fine they are not hanging up...
So the answer is the crappy rotors just ate away so fast. $26 per rotor..
Pads were higher than the pair of rotors.

I have to redo it after a year. I guess I am buying OEM rotors since
this stuff sucks.

Buyer beware.. same with HF.. I've been burned a few times recently.
putting me back on a more cautious buy with them.

--
Jeff

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.

--
This message was for rec.woodworking - if it appears in homeownershub
they ripped it off.

Seek out builders of quality goods, and spend the little (or even not so little) to get that quality. Starve out the rats and they'll go away. It is consumers who are, ultimately, more price-conscious than value conscious that allow this garbage to remain economically viable for its producers.

I'm not saying that you had lots of options with the brakes, but when you do have options, consider them carefully, and look to the long-term.

Just my two cents' worth.

"Jeff Mazur" wrote:

Seek out builders of quality goods, and spend the little (or even not
so little) to get that quality. Starve out the rats and they'll go
away. It is consumers who are, ultimately, more price-conscious than
value conscious that allow this garbage to remain economically viable
for its producers.

I'm not saying that you had lots of options with the brakes, but when
you do have options, consider them carefully, and look to the
long-term.

Just my two cents' worth.
------------------------------------------------------
As a representative of suppliers of premium goods and services,
I always had competitors who had a lower price on their side.

Somehow, managed to make a living.

The old adage still applies:

Only the seller knows the true value of the goods or services in any
transaction.

Lew

On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 18:59:43 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"Jeff Mazur" wrote:

Seek out builders of quality goods, and spend the little (or even not
so little) to get that quality. Starve out the rats and they'll go
away. It is consumers who are, ultimately, more price-conscious than
value conscious that allow this garbage to remain economically viable
for its producers.

I'm not saying that you had lots of options with the brakes, but when
you do have options, consider them carefully, and look to the
long-term.

Just my two cents' worth.
------------------------------------------------------
As a representative of suppliers of premium goods and services,
I always had competitors who had a lower price on their side.

Somehow, managed to make a living.

The old adage still applies:

Only the seller knows the true value of the goods or services in any
transaction.

Lew


John Ruskin had it right in is "common law of business balance" :

There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a
little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider
price alone are that person's lawful prey. It's unwise to pay too
much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you
lose a little money – that is all. When you pay too little, you
sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable
of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business
balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can't be
done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something
for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay
for something better.

On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.

In article ,
Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.

--
This message was for rec.woodworking - if it appears in homeownershub
they ripped it off.

Most auto manufacturers do not recommend resurfacing rotors any more. And
for most models, the cost today os so low that it doesn't pay anyway. Rotors
for many models are only $20 or so, I've purchased some for my Jeep that
(198,000 miles on it) as low as $15 each. I remember when a mid-sized brake
rotors were in the $60 to $90 range.



--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On Saturday, 7 December 2013 19:50:42 UTC, woodchucker wrote:

Anyway in one year the Chinese ****ty rotors are gone. I used OEM
Toyota pads, I checked the calipers are fine they are not hanging up...
So the answer is the crappy rotors just ate away so fast. $26 per rotor..
Pads were higher than the pair of rotors.

FWIW about 18 months ago I replaced the rotors and pads on my car with Bosch
items. And very good they have been, too. They cost 80 quid all in (with a
can of brake cleaner), so that's about USD120 ish. Brakes and tyres I will
not skimp on.

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:49:53 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.
Many???????
Extremely few production brake rotors are anything other than cast
iron or cast steel.. Most of the damage done to rotors is due to
chemical reaction with metallic compounds in the prake pads,
compounded by road salt. All rotors have a "service limit" and a
"machining limit". Used to be they were significantly different and
you could cut a rotor up to 3 times. With the advent of CAFE, and the
resulting weight reduction "imposed" on manufacturers, brakes are
often now undersized for the application, and so low in mass that they
cannot handle extreme heat - and machining them reduces the mass to
the point the quickly warp after being machined. With today's labour
cpsts, and the cost of 3C parts, it is cheaper to replace than to
machine MOST brake rotors.
Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.

On 12/8/2013 1:07 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 December 2013 19:50:42 UTC, woodchucker wrote:

Anyway in one year the Chinese ****ty rotors are gone. I used OEM
Toyota pads, I checked the calipers are fine they are not hanging up...
So the answer is the crappy rotors just ate away so fast. $26 per rotor..
Pads were higher than the pair of rotors.

FWIW about 18 months ago I replaced the rotors and pads on my car with Bosch
items. And very good they have been, too. They cost 80 quid all in (with a
can of brake cleaner), so that's about USD120 ish. Brakes and tyres I will
not skimp on.


And with Rotor and pads thats about what I spent.
And again last night.

There are no made in usa rotors avail.
I am not even sure if Toyota is made in Japan anymore, look at most of
the Japanese electronics, it's made in China..I wouldn't doubt that the
rotors are coming from China for the Toy. I had to get them and Toyota
was not open so I'm not certain.



--
Jeff

On 12/8/2013 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:49:53 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.
Many???????
Extremely few production brake rotors are anything other than cast
iron or cast steel.. Most of the damage done to rotors is due to
chemical reaction with metallic compounds in the prake pads,
compounded by road salt. All rotors have a "service limit" and a
"machining limit". Used to be they were significantly different and
you could cut a rotor up to 3 times. With the advent of CAFE, and the
resulting weight reduction "imposed" on manufacturers, brakes are
often now undersized for the application, and so low in mass that they
cannot handle extreme heat - and machining them reduces the mass to
the point the quickly warp after being machined. With today's labour
cpsts, and the cost of 3C parts, it is cheaper to replace than to
machine MOST brake rotors.
Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.


Yes, many. Many is not a specific number or ratio to all as a whole.
Plenty more than pre 90's

On 12/8/2013 2:52 PM, Leon wrote:
On 12/8/2013 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:49:53 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find
anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.
Many???????
Extremely few production brake rotors are anything other than cast
iron or cast steel.. Most of the damage done to rotors is due to
chemical reaction with metallic compounds in the prake pads,
compounded by road salt. All rotors have a "service limit" and a
"machining limit". Used to be they were significantly different and
you could cut a rotor up to 3 times. With the advent of CAFE, and the
resulting weight reduction "imposed" on manufacturers, brakes are
often now undersized for the application, and so low in mass that they
cannot handle extreme heat - and machining them reduces the mass to
the point the quickly warp after being machined. With today's labour
cpsts, and the cost of 3C parts, it is cheaper to replace than to
machine MOST brake rotors.
Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.


Yes, many. Many is not a specific number or ratio to all as a whole.
Plenty more than pre 90's


Actually to be more specific and to clarify that the composites have
been commonly used even in the 80's,

COMPOSITE BRAKE ROTOR APPLICATIONS
Some of the earliest applications for composite rotors were the 1982
Lincoln Continental, 1984 Ford Mustang SVO, 1987 Ford Thunderbird Turbo
Coupe, and 1988 Ford Taurus and General Motors front-wheel drive "W"
body cars (Buick Regal, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme and Pontiac Grand
Prix). Since then, the number of vehicle applications has continued to grow.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/rotors1c.htm

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 14:52:09 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/8/2013 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:49:53 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.
Many???????
Extremely few production brake rotors are anything other than cast
iron or cast steel.. Most of the damage done to rotors is due to
chemical reaction with metallic compounds in the prake pads,
compounded by road salt. All rotors have a "service limit" and a
"machining limit". Used to be they were significantly different and
you could cut a rotor up to 3 times. With the advent of CAFE, and the
resulting weight reduction "imposed" on manufacturers, brakes are
often now undersized for the application, and so low in mass that they
cannot handle extreme heat - and machining them reduces the mass to
the point the quickly warp after being machined. With today's labour
cpsts, and the cost of 3C parts, it is cheaper to replace than to
machine MOST brake rotors.
Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.


Yes, many. Many is not a specific number or ratio to all as a whole.
Plenty more than pre 90's
What normal production non-specialty vehicle uses composite rotors.
Name 3 - 2 of which must be generally available for under $60,000 US

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 15:05:36 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/8/2013 2:52 PM, Leon wrote:
On 12/8/2013 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:49:53 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find
anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.
Many???????
Extremely few production brake rotors are anything other than cast
iron or cast steel.. Most of the damage done to rotors is due to
chemical reaction with metallic compounds in the prake pads,
compounded by road salt. All rotors have a "service limit" and a
"machining limit". Used to be they were significantly different and
you could cut a rotor up to 3 times. With the advent of CAFE, and the
resulting weight reduction "imposed" on manufacturers, brakes are
often now undersized for the application, and so low in mass that they
cannot handle extreme heat - and machining them reduces the mass to
the point the quickly warp after being machined. With today's labour
cpsts, and the cost of 3C parts, it is cheaper to replace than to
machine MOST brake rotors.
Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.


Yes, many. Many is not a specific number or ratio to all as a whole.
Plenty more than pre 90's


Actually to be more specific and to clarify that the composites have
been commonly used even in the 80's,

COMPOSITE BRAKE ROTOR APPLICATIONS
Some of the earliest applications for composite rotors were the 1982
Lincoln Continental, 1984 Ford Mustang SVO, 1987 Ford Thunderbird Turbo
Coupe, and 1988 Ford Taurus and General Motors front-wheel drive "W"
body cars (Buick Regal, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme and Pontiac Grand
Prix). Since then, the number of vehicle applications has continued to grow.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/rotors1c.htm



OK, there is more than one definition of "composite"
The "composite" you are refirring to is still an all-steel rotor - -
Those "composite" iron/steel rotors could still be machined,
successfully. Just took proper adapters for the brake lathe. I
machined hundreds of them

When "composite" rotors were mentioned I was thinking Carbon Fiber and
ceramic composite rotors which have worked their way into the
ultra-high-performance brake world over the last number of years -not
as standard equipment on any mass produced sub-$80,000 car.
These rotors can NOT be machined on any normal brake lathe.

wrote:

Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.

I don't understand the experiences of others, but my Sonata has 145,000
miles on it and I have put exactly one set of aftermarket rotors on the car.
Probably somewhere back around 50-60,000 or so. I just get the basic TRW
(I'm pretty sure...) rotors for all of my vehicles. I've put 2 or 3 sets of
TRW (I'm pretty sure...) ceramic pads on these rotors and there is still no
warp, and good firm pedal. I have had the same experiences with my 94
Siverado and my wife's cars, as well as those of my kids.

I used to replace both rotors and pads at the same time, every time, but
having stopped that practice some years ago, I have noticed no ill effect.
Lest anyone thinks I am something less than careful in these matters, I take
no chances with brakes or tires (as was stated also by another poster). I
simply don't throw money away on parts that offer no good reason to do so.
I probably do more work on vehicles, and understand more about proper
repairs than a good percentage of the people in this forum, and I'd defend
my practice against any other practice.

I haven't bought the cheapest rotors possible, as like other have stated, I
don't go for the bottom of the barrel on anything. I probably pay around
$60 for rotors on my car. It's been so long since I bought them that I
can't really remember. Seems to me the last complete brake job with rotors
all the way around and new pads all the way, was something like $120-ish in
parts.

--

-Mike-

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 14:06:08 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 12/8/2013 1:07 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 December 2013 19:50:42 UTC, woodchucker wrote:

Anyway in one year the Chinese ****ty rotors are gone. I used OEM
Toyota pads, I checked the calipers are fine they are not hanging up...
So the answer is the crappy rotors just ate away so fast. $26 per rotor..
Pads were higher than the pair of rotors.

FWIW about 18 months ago I replaced the rotors and pads on my car with Bosch
items. And very good they have been, too. They cost 80 quid all in (with a
can of brake cleaner), so that's about USD120 ish. Brakes and tyres I will
not skimp on.


And with Rotor and pads thats about what I spent.
And again last night.

There are no made in usa rotors avail.
I am not even sure if Toyota is made in Japan anymore, look at most of
the Japanese electronics, it's made in China..I wouldn't doubt that the
rotors are coming from China for the Toy. I had to get them and Toyota
was not open so I'm not certain.
The old Thyssen Krupp (now Waupaca) still makes brake rotors - for
OEM at any rate - not sure how many make it to replacement market.
There are still some made in Canada too - and a fair number of
Brazillian and Mexican producers and European producers also sell in
the North American market. They are more expensive than the 3C stuff,
but usually significantly higher quality and quality control.

On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 17:49:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:

Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.

I don't understand the experiences of others, but my Sonata has 145,000
miles on it and I have put exactly one set of aftermarket rotors on the car.
Probably somewhere back around 50-60,000 or so. I just get the basic TRW
(I'm pretty sure...) rotors for all of my vehicles. I've put 2 or 3 sets of
TRW (I'm pretty sure...) ceramic pads on these rotors and there is still no
warp, and good firm pedal. I have had the same experiences with my 94
Siverado and my wife's cars, as well as those of my kids.

I used to replace both rotors and pads at the same time, every time, but
having stopped that practice some years ago, I have noticed no ill effect.
Lest anyone thinks I am something less than careful in these matters, I take
no chances with brakes or tires (as was stated also by another poster). I
simply don't throw money away on parts that offer no good reason to do so.
I probably do more work on vehicles, and understand more about proper
repairs than a good percentage of the people in this forum, and I'd defend
my practice against any other practice.

I haven't bought the cheapest rotors possible, as like other have stated, I
don't go for the bottom of the barrel on anything. I probably pay around
$60 for rotors on my car. It's been so long since I bought them that I
can't really remember. Seems to me the last complete brake job with rotors
all the way around and new pads all the way, was something like $120-ish in
parts.
My last front pads alone pretty well hit that mark here in Canada -
for 2003 Ford Taurus. Front rotors run $20 for the cheap crap to
$45-ish for the decent stuff. I had ESB rotors and "green" Kevlar pads
on the Mystique - $300 for the front pads and rotors IIRC - but they
lasted over 5 years.

wrote:

My last front pads alone pretty well hit that mark here in Canada -
for 2003 Ford Taurus. Front rotors run $20 for the cheap crap to
$45-ish for the decent stuff. I had ESB rotors and "green" Kevlar pads
on the Mystique - $300 for the front pads and rotors IIRC - but they
lasted over 5 years.

Holy ****! $300 for just the fronts???? Must be Candaidan cuirrency or
supmtin'. That's insane based on the prices down here. Were those insalled
prices or just parts prices?

--

-Mike-

On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 22:39:49 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:

My last front pads alone pretty well hit that mark here in Canada -
for 2003 Ford Taurus. Front rotors run $20 for the cheap crap to
$45-ish for the decent stuff. I had ESB rotors and "green" Kevlar pads
on the Mystique - $300 for the front pads and rotors IIRC - but they
lasted over 5 years.

Holy ****! $300 for just the fronts???? Must be Candaidan cuirrency or
supmtin'. That's insane based on the prices down here. Were those insalled
prices or just parts prices?
That was parts only - at my "trade" price, as a licenced mechanic.
Yes, we pay a LOT more for many things up here north of the border.
But that was for "specialty" performance parts. I could have put 3C
parts on for about $65, and continued to change them every year for 5
years - paying the same amount or more. They actually lasted 8 years
but were in bad need of replacement by the last year. (I had not
served them the last 3 years - always figuring on scrapping the car.)
The brakes were new on the car when I bought it - and were totally
shot within 2 years and less than 10,000 miles of driving.

The pads I just put on the Taurus were $135, my cost, in the box. The
real good ones were almost $200, and the cheap ones something like
$60. The BPI Raybestos Element pads sell for about $70 online in the
USA

"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Holy ****! $300 for just the fronts???? Must be Candaidan
cuirrency or supmtin'. That's insane based on the prices down here.
Were those insalled prices or just parts prices?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a mechanic, don't play one on TV, but $300 sounds like a lot
of money
for just a front end brake job.

Had my front end done on my Toyota Tacoma at about 95,000 and was
told to come back about 140,000 for the rears.

Don't remember how much the fronts cost but it was nowhere near $300.

If it had been I'd still remember it.


Lew

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.

Actually, they are cast iron, not steel. That said, quality control and
metallurgy are not Chinese strong points.

Add to that, that the makers of rotors for the Detroit iron used to age each
rotor, for up to a year before they put the factory turning on it and
shipped it out. That is the primary reason they used to hardly ever warp,
and if they did, not so badly. Do you think the Chinese age their cast iron
for a year? Nope.
--
Jim in NC


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 09/12/2013 1:46 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Holy ****! $300 for just the fronts???? Must be Candaidan
cuirrency or supmtin'. That's insane based on the prices down here.
Were those insalled prices or just parts prices?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a mechanic, don't play one on TV, but $300 sounds like a lot
of money
for just a front end brake job.

Had my front end done on my Toyota Tacoma at about 95,000 and was
told to come back about 140,000 for the rears.

Don't remember how much the fronts cost but it was nowhere near $300.

If it had been I'd still remember it.


Lew



Yeah, it's pricy up here. Just did the front brakes on my 2003 Silverado
1500. $108 for each rotor and $89 for the pads, plus 13% sales tax on
all of it. Don't know why there should be such a great price
differential between here and the U.S. There's not that much difference
in the dollar.

Gil

Gil wrote:
On 09/12/2013 1:46 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Holy ****! $300 for just the fronts???? Must be Candaidan
cuirrency or supmtin'. That's insane based on the prices down here.
Were those insalled prices or just parts prices?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a mechanic, don't play one on TV, but $300 sounds like a lot
of money
for just a front end brake job.

Had my front end done on my Toyota Tacoma at about 95,000 and was
told to come back about 140,000 for the rears.

Don't remember how much the fronts cost but it was nowhere near $300.

If it had been I'd still remember it.


Lew



Yeah, it's pricy up here. Just did the front brakes on my 2003
Silverado 1500. $108 for each rotor and $89 for the pads, plus 13%
sales tax on all of it. Don't know why there should be such a great
price differential between here and the U.S. There's not that much
difference in the dollar.


Sheese! For you guys that live close enough to the boarder, I'd be driving
over the line to buy my parts.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Gil wrote:
On 09/12/2013 1:46 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Holy ****! $300 for just the fronts???? Must be Candaidan
cuirrency or supmtin'. That's insane based on the prices down
here. Were those insalled prices or just parts prices?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a mechanic, don't play one on TV, but $300 sounds like a lot
of money
for just a front end brake job.

Had my front end done on my Toyota Tacoma at about 95,000 and was
told to come back about 140,000 for the rears.

Don't remember how much the fronts cost but it was nowhere near
$300. If it had been I'd still remember it.


Lew



Yeah, it's pricy up here. Just did the front brakes on my 2003
Silverado 1500. $108 for each rotor and $89 for the pads, plus 13%
sales tax on all of it. Don't know why there should be such a great
price differential between here and the U.S. There's not that much
difference in the dollar.



Just for reference - I had to replace a front caliper on my '94 Silverado
recently. I was going to simply rebuild the caliper until I discovered it
would cost me almost $50 to rebuild it, and it only cost me $15 to buy a
rebuilt one. It was well worth the short trip to Advance Auto...

--

-Mike-

On 12/9/13, 9:28 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Gil wrote:
On 09/12/2013 1:46 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Holy ****! $300 for just the fronts???? Must be Candaidan
cuirrency or supmtin'. That's insane based on the prices down
here. Were those insalled prices or just parts prices?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a mechanic, don't play one on TV, but $300 sounds like a lot
of money
for just a front end brake job.

Had my front end done on my Toyota Tacoma at about 95,000 and was
told to come back about 140,000 for the rears.

Don't remember how much the fronts cost but it was nowhere near
$300. If it had been I'd still remember it.


Lew



Yeah, it's pricy up here. Just did the front brakes on my 2003
Silverado 1500. $108 for each rotor and $89 for the pads, plus 13%
sales tax on all of it. Don't know why there should be such a great
price differential between here and the U.S. There's not that much
difference in the dollar.



Just for reference - I had to replace a front caliper on my '94 Silverado
recently. I was going to simply rebuild the caliper until I discovered it
would cost me almost $50 to rebuild it, and it only cost me $15 to buy a
rebuilt one. It was well worth the short trip to Advance Auto...


I used to own an '85 F150. Before I sold it (which I still regret), I
replaced the entire brake system, except 80% of the lines for under
$250. All the calipers/cylinders, master cylinder, drums/rotors, a
bunch of line, pads, shoes, etc.

And I did all the work in the driveway, with a single jack and a few
sockets.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:


I used to own an '85 F150. Before I sold it (which I still regret), I
replaced the entire brake system, except 80% of the lines for under
$250. All the calipers/cylinders, master cylinder, drums/rotors, a
bunch of line, pads, shoes, etc.


Up here in Central NY, you'd have been replacing that 80% of the brake lines
every few years. Sure wish they made brake lines and fuel lines out of some
kind of synthetic material.

And I did all the work in the driveway, with a single jack and a few
sockets.

It was the task of repairing my front differential in my plow truck, in the
midst of the ****tiest weather possible, outside, laying on a stone
driveway, with a tarp over the truck and a 100w light bulb for heat, that
convinced me to get going and build my garage. No more driveway repairs for
me!

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...


It was the task of repairing my front differential in my plow truck, in the
midst of the ****tiest weather possible, outside, laying on a stone
driveway, with a tarp over the truck and a 100w light bulb for heat, that
convinced me to get going and build my garage. No more driveway repairs
for me!

....if this plow truck was for your personal use, not business use, it would
have been cheaper and warmer to pay someone to plow you out... ;~)

John

I haven't bought the cheapest rotors possible, as like other have stated, I
don't go for the bottom of the barrel on anything. I probably pay around
$60 for rotors on my car. It's been so long since I bought them that I
can't really remember. Seems to me the last complete brake job with rotors
all the way around and new pads all the way, was something like $120-ish in
parts.
Mike Marlow


Brakes ain't cheap here in Ohio. Replaced brakes on our Ford van and
rotors alone were $95 each. Front brake job, including labor was way
past $300.

I just replaced the rear brakes on my '99 Cherokee. Drums, shoes,
brake fluid and one replacement cable and cylander ran under $180 and
that was with a mechanic's business discount.

We got rid of the van (full-size). In some ways we really miss it but
in others (gas, parts, etc) we really don't. Had to replace ingnitiion
wires every 12-18mos and had to use Ford OEM. All after market wires
would start to fail after 6 mos at best. Our last tuneup on it ran
$700, including labor. My last Jeep tuneup ran me $87.

I'll give up a full-size van over a jeep anyday based on yearly cost
of maintenance and gas use. Van was 13-14 MPG and 20-21 MPG on Jeep
and that's using 4-wheel drive. Downside is less space, comfort and
overall usabliity. We loved the van for camping and long trips but not
local travel.

If you can do the work yourself, you can save some serious money,
especially if you can get parts at cost. If not, you better find a
really good mechanic. One that does honest prices and good work. And
the latter seems to be a dying breed.

John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...


It was the task of repairing my front differential in my plow truck,
in the midst of the ****tiest weather possible, outside, laying on a
stone driveway, with a tarp over the truck and a 100w light bulb for
heat, that convinced me to get going and build my garage. No more
driveway repairs for me!

...if this plow truck was for your personal use, not business use, it
would have been cheaper and warmer to pay someone to plow you out...
;~)

It was for my personal use, and for me to plow out a couple of friends as
well as a handful of elderly people who could not afford a plow service.
Warmer - sure thing. Cheaper - not by a long shot. We get snow up here.

--

-Mike-

On 12/9/2013 1:24 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Up here in Central NY, you'd have been replacing that 80% of the brake lines
every few years. Sure wish they made brake lines and fuel lines out of some
kind of synthetic material.


In the first 45 years of driving, I don't know of anyone replacing a
brake line. In the past half dozen, I've heard of plenty of lines being
replaced, including mine that were about 9 years old at the time. My
guess is thinner cheaper material.

In article ,
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/9/2013 1:24 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Up here in Central NY, you'd have been replacing that 80% of the brake lines
every few years. Sure wish they made brake lines and fuel lines out of some
kind of synthetic material.


In the first 45 years of driving, I don't know of anyone replacing a
brake line. In the past half dozen, I've heard of plenty of lines being
replaced, including mine that were about 9 years old at the time. My
guess is thinner cheaper material.

I'll offer another contributing factor: Back in the late 60s when I
started driving, if someone had a running car from the 50s it was a big
deal. I'm not taling about hot-rodded 55 Chevys that had a lot of work
put into them, just common every-day drivers that were still on the
road. Today even a 20 year old car is commonplace. Cars are simply
more reliable than they were 30 years ago and stay on the road longer,
but items like brake lines still have a finite life. Replacement of
brake lines, fuel lines, and similar parts have become more common
because generally the rest of the vehicle is so much more reliable.
:wq

--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

In article ,
Morgans wrote:
...snipped...

Add to that, that the makers of rotors for the Detroit iron used to age each
rotor, for up to a year before they put the factory turning on it and
shipped it out. That is the primary reason they used to hardly ever warp,
and if they did, not so badly. Do you think the Chinese age their cast iron
for a year? Nope.

Speaking from 34 years professional experience in fleet vehicle maintenance
I would seriously doubt that assertion.



--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

On Mon, 9 Dec 2013 13:24:37 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:


I used to own an '85 F150. Before I sold it (which I still regret), I
replaced the entire brake system, except 80% of the lines for under
$250. All the calipers/cylinders, master cylinder, drums/rotors, a
bunch of line, pads, shoes, etc.


Up here in Central NY, you'd have been replacing that 80% of the brake lines
every few years. Sure wish they made brake lines and fuel lines out of some
kind of synthetic material.

When I first moved to Alabama, from Vermont, I had to have all of the
brake radiator lines replaced ($3000). They had never seen anything
like that before.

Last summer I had to replace the truck because the rear leaf spring
mounts had turned to air. I'd probably been driving for the better
part of a year with the springs resting on the frame. Moved much of
my house and all of my tools that way.

And I did all the work in the driveway, with a single jack and a few
sockets.

It was the task of repairing my front differential in my plow truck, in the
midst of the ****tiest weather possible, outside, laying on a stone
driveway, with a tarp over the truck and a 100w light bulb for heat, that
convinced me to get going and build my garage. No more driveway repairs for
me!

;-)

On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 13:55:58 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/9/2013 1:24 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Up here in Central NY, you'd have been replacing that 80% of the brake lines
every few years. Sure wish they made brake lines and fuel lines out of some
kind of synthetic material.


In the first 45 years of driving, I don't know of anyone replacing a
brake line. In the past half dozen, I've heard of plenty of lines being
replaced, including mine that were about 9 years old at the time. My
guess is thinner cheaper material.
In your first 45 years of driving most cars didn't last more than 9
years??
Lightweight construction IS part of the problem. Accountants running
auto companies is another.

wrote:
On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 13:55:58 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/9/2013 1:24 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Up here in Central NY, you'd have been replacing that 80% of the
brake lines every few years. Sure wish they made brake lines and
fuel lines out of some kind of synthetic material.


In the first 45 years of driving, I don't know of anyone replacing a
brake line. In the past half dozen, I've heard of plenty of lines
being replaced, including mine that were about 9 years old at the
time. My guess is thinner cheaper material.
In your first 45 years of driving most cars didn't last more than 9
years??
Lightweight construction IS part of the problem. Accountants running
auto companies is another.

Well - not really in this particular matter. We replace brake lines more
frequently than a lot of areas simply due to the amount of road salt used in
the winter here. There is a brake line out now that has a durable coating
on it, and they do last much longer than the old steel lines, but they don't
come as standard equipment on a lot of cars.

--

-Mike-

wrote:

Accountants running
auto companies is another.
--------------------------------------------
I'm reminded of a comment made by my Industrial Engineering
professor more than 50 years ago.

He asked the class what discipline was the best preparation to
become CEO of a corporation.

Since this was an engineering class, he quickly shot down the
idea that an engineer would make a good CEO.

One by one, he shot down our suggestions of sales, manufacturing
and finally accounting.

Having an accountant as a CEO is like driving down the road looking
out the rear view mirror.

"They can tell you where you've been, but not where you are likely
to go", was his comment.

As valid today as it was then.

BTW, his choice for a CEO, somebody with an Art's degree in History.

Since man is doomed to repeat his mistakes, at least a History
major might have an edge.

Lew

On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 01:31:17 +0000 (UTC), (Edward A.
Falk) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
In your first 45 years of driving most cars didn't last more than 9
years??

Dunno about 9 years, but I certainly remember when it was a Big Deal if
a car made it 100,000 miles.
Good reason not too many people changed brake lines way back then -
however I DO remember changing brake lines (and fuel lines) back in
the late sixties.

On 12/9/2013 6:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 Dec 2013 13:24:37 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:


I used to own an '85 F150. Before I sold it (which I still regret), I
replaced the entire brake system, except 80% of the lines for under
$250. All the calipers/cylinders, master cylinder, drums/rotors, a
bunch of line, pads, shoes, etc.


Up here in Central NY, you'd have been replacing that 80% of the brake lines
every few years. Sure wish they made brake lines and fuel lines out of some
kind of synthetic material.

When I first moved to Alabama, from Vermont, I had to have all of the
brake radiator lines replaced ($3000). They had never seen anything
like that before.

What is a "brake radiator line".

On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 22:03:16 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/9/2013 6:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 Dec 2013 13:24:37 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:


I used to own an '85 F150. Before I sold it (which I still regret), I
replaced the entire brake system, except 80% of the lines for under
$250. All the calipers/cylinders, master cylinder, drums/rotors, a
bunch of line, pads, shoes, etc.


Up here in Central NY, you'd have been replacing that 80% of the brake lines
every few years. Sure wish they made brake lines and fuel lines out of some
kind of synthetic material.

When I first moved to Alabama, from Vermont, I had to have all of the
brake radiator lines replaced ($3000). They had never seen anything
^ and
like that before.

What is a "brake radiator line".

Does the above help? The "radiator" lines included the transmission
cooler lines.

On 12/10/2013 12:27 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 22:03:16 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/9/2013 6:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 Dec 2013 13:24:37 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:


I used to own an '85 F150. Before I sold it (which I still regret), I
replaced the entire brake system, except 80% of the lines for under
$250. All the calipers/cylinders, master cylinder, drums/rotors, a
bunch of line, pads, shoes, etc.


Up here in Central NY, you'd have been replacing that 80% of the brake lines
every few years. Sure wish they made brake lines and fuel lines out of some
kind of synthetic material.

When I first moved to Alabama, from Vermont, I had to have all of the
brake radiator lines replaced ($3000). They had never seen anything
^ and
like that before.

What is a "brake radiator line".

Does the above help? The "radiator" lines included the transmission
cooler lines.


That helps.