Just took the van to pick up some stuff.
Noticed the brakes sounded like they had a stone in them.

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads.
You can't find anyone to resurface rotors anymore.

As a matter of fact NAPA told me the town prohibited them from turning
drums and rotors. They wanted them to build a separate out building for it.

Anyway in one year the Chinese ****ty rotors are gone. I used OEM
Toyota pads, I checked the calipers are fine they are not hanging up...
So the answer is the crappy rotors just ate away so fast. $26 per rotor..
Pads were higher than the pair of rotors.

I have to redo it after a year. I guess I am buying OEM rotors since
this stuff sucks.

Buyer beware.. same with HF.. I've been burned a few times recently.
putting me back on a more cautious buy with them.

--
Jeff

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.

--
This message was for rec.woodworking - if it appears in homeownershub
they ripped it off.

On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:49:53 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.
Many???????
Extremely few production brake rotors are anything other than cast
iron or cast steel.. Most of the damage done to rotors is due to
chemical reaction with metallic compounds in the prake pads,
compounded by road salt. All rotors have a "service limit" and a
"machining limit". Used to be they were significantly different and
you could cut a rotor up to 3 times. With the advent of CAFE, and the
resulting weight reduction "imposed" on manufacturers, brakes are
often now undersized for the application, and so low in mass that they
cannot handle extreme heat - and machining them reduces the mass to
the point the quickly warp after being machined. With today's labour
cpsts, and the cost of 3C parts, it is cheaper to replace than to
machine MOST brake rotors.
Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.

On 12/8/2013 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:49:53 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.
Many???????
Extremely few production brake rotors are anything other than cast
iron or cast steel.. Most of the damage done to rotors is due to
chemical reaction with metallic compounds in the prake pads,
compounded by road salt. All rotors have a "service limit" and a
"machining limit". Used to be they were significantly different and
you could cut a rotor up to 3 times. With the advent of CAFE, and the
resulting weight reduction "imposed" on manufacturers, brakes are
often now undersized for the application, and so low in mass that they
cannot handle extreme heat - and machining them reduces the mass to
the point the quickly warp after being machined. With today's labour
cpsts, and the cost of 3C parts, it is cheaper to replace than to
machine MOST brake rotors.
Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.


Yes, many. Many is not a specific number or ratio to all as a whole.
Plenty more than pre 90's

On 12/8/2013 2:52 PM, Leon wrote:
On 12/8/2013 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:49:53 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find
anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.
Many???????
Extremely few production brake rotors are anything other than cast
iron or cast steel.. Most of the damage done to rotors is due to
chemical reaction with metallic compounds in the prake pads,
compounded by road salt. All rotors have a "service limit" and a
"machining limit". Used to be they were significantly different and
you could cut a rotor up to 3 times. With the advent of CAFE, and the
resulting weight reduction "imposed" on manufacturers, brakes are
often now undersized for the application, and so low in mass that they
cannot handle extreme heat - and machining them reduces the mass to
the point the quickly warp after being machined. With today's labour
cpsts, and the cost of 3C parts, it is cheaper to replace than to
machine MOST brake rotors.
Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.


Yes, many. Many is not a specific number or ratio to all as a whole.
Plenty more than pre 90's


Actually to be more specific and to clarify that the composites have
been commonly used even in the 80's,

COMPOSITE BRAKE ROTOR APPLICATIONS
Some of the earliest applications for composite rotors were the 1982
Lincoln Continental, 1984 Ford Mustang SVO, 1987 Ford Thunderbird Turbo
Coupe, and 1988 Ford Taurus and General Motors front-wheel drive "W"
body cars (Buick Regal, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme and Pontiac Grand
Prix). Since then, the number of vehicle applications has continued to grow.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/rotors1c.htm

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 14:52:09 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/8/2013 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:49:53 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.
Many???????
Extremely few production brake rotors are anything other than cast
iron or cast steel.. Most of the damage done to rotors is due to
chemical reaction with metallic compounds in the prake pads,
compounded by road salt. All rotors have a "service limit" and a
"machining limit". Used to be they were significantly different and
you could cut a rotor up to 3 times. With the advent of CAFE, and the
resulting weight reduction "imposed" on manufacturers, brakes are
often now undersized for the application, and so low in mass that they
cannot handle extreme heat - and machining them reduces the mass to
the point the quickly warp after being machined. With today's labour
cpsts, and the cost of 3C parts, it is cheaper to replace than to
machine MOST brake rotors.
Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.


Yes, many. Many is not a specific number or ratio to all as a whole.
Plenty more than pre 90's
What normal production non-specialty vehicle uses composite rotors.
Name 3 - 2 of which must be generally available for under $60,000 US

wrote:

Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.

I don't understand the experiences of others, but my Sonata has 145,000
miles on it and I have put exactly one set of aftermarket rotors on the car.
Probably somewhere back around 50-60,000 or so. I just get the basic TRW
(I'm pretty sure...) rotors for all of my vehicles. I've put 2 or 3 sets of
TRW (I'm pretty sure...) ceramic pads on these rotors and there is still no
warp, and good firm pedal. I have had the same experiences with my 94
Siverado and my wife's cars, as well as those of my kids.

I used to replace both rotors and pads at the same time, every time, but
having stopped that practice some years ago, I have noticed no ill effect.
Lest anyone thinks I am something less than careful in these matters, I take
no chances with brakes or tires (as was stated also by another poster). I
simply don't throw money away on parts that offer no good reason to do so.
I probably do more work on vehicles, and understand more about proper
repairs than a good percentage of the people in this forum, and I'd defend
my practice against any other practice.

I haven't bought the cheapest rotors possible, as like other have stated, I
don't go for the bottom of the barrel on anything. I probably pay around
$60 for rotors on my car. It's been so long since I bought them that I
can't really remember. Seems to me the last complete brake job with rotors
all the way around and new pads all the way, was something like $120-ish in
parts.

--

-Mike-

On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 17:49:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:

Good brake pads today are VERY expensive compared to rotors - It is
false economy to buy the cheapest rotor you can buy unless you are
also putting on the cheapest pad you can buy and are not planning on
keeping the vehicle roadworthy for any length of time.

My modus operendi is to never buy either the cheapest or most
expensive part unless there are only 2 or less options.

I don't understand the experiences of others, but my Sonata has 145,000
miles on it and I have put exactly one set of aftermarket rotors on the car.
Probably somewhere back around 50-60,000 or so. I just get the basic TRW
(I'm pretty sure...) rotors for all of my vehicles. I've put 2 or 3 sets of
TRW (I'm pretty sure...) ceramic pads on these rotors and there is still no
warp, and good firm pedal. I have had the same experiences with my 94
Siverado and my wife's cars, as well as those of my kids.

I used to replace both rotors and pads at the same time, every time, but
having stopped that practice some years ago, I have noticed no ill effect.
Lest anyone thinks I am something less than careful in these matters, I take
no chances with brakes or tires (as was stated also by another poster). I
simply don't throw money away on parts that offer no good reason to do so.
I probably do more work on vehicles, and understand more about proper
repairs than a good percentage of the people in this forum, and I'd defend
my practice against any other practice.

I haven't bought the cheapest rotors possible, as like other have stated, I
don't go for the bottom of the barrel on anything. I probably pay around
$60 for rotors on my car. It's been so long since I bought them that I
can't really remember. Seems to me the last complete brake job with rotors
all the way around and new pads all the way, was something like $120-ish in
parts.
My last front pads alone pretty well hit that mark here in Canada -
for 2003 Ford Taurus. Front rotors run $20 for the cheap crap to
$45-ish for the decent stuff. I had ESB rotors and "green" Kevlar pads
on the Mystique - $300 for the front pads and rotors IIRC - but they
lasted over 5 years.

I haven't bought the cheapest rotors possible, as like other have stated, I
don't go for the bottom of the barrel on anything. I probably pay around
$60 for rotors on my car. It's been so long since I bought them that I
can't really remember. Seems to me the last complete brake job with rotors
all the way around and new pads all the way, was something like $120-ish in
parts.
Mike Marlow


Brakes ain't cheap here in Ohio. Replaced brakes on our Ford van and
rotors alone were $95 each. Front brake job, including labor was way
past $300.

I just replaced the rear brakes on my '99 Cherokee. Drums, shoes,
brake fluid and one replacement cable and cylander ran under $180 and
that was with a mechanic's business discount.

We got rid of the van (full-size). In some ways we really miss it but
in others (gas, parts, etc) we really don't. Had to replace ingnitiion
wires every 12-18mos and had to use Ford OEM. All after market wires
would start to fail after 6 mos at best. Our last tuneup on it ran
$700, including labor. My last Jeep tuneup ran me $87.

I'll give up a full-size van over a jeep anyday based on yearly cost
of maintenance and gas use. Van was 13-14 MPG and 20-21 MPG on Jeep
and that's using 4-wheel drive. Downside is less space, comfort and
overall usabliity. We loved the van for camping and long trips but not
local travel.

If you can do the work yourself, you can save some serious money,
especially if you can get parts at cost. If not, you better find a
really good mechanic. One that does honest prices and good work. And
the latter seems to be a dying breed.

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 12/7/2013 8:13 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.



Many rotors are a composite material vs. solid steel. You turn them you
ruin them.

Actually, they are cast iron, not steel. That said, quality control and
metallurgy are not Chinese strong points.

Add to that, that the makers of rotors for the Detroit iron used to age each
rotor, for up to a year before they put the factory turning on it and
shipped it out. That is the primary reason they used to hardly ever warp,
and if they did, not so badly. Do you think the Chinese age their cast iron
for a year? Nope.
--
Jim in NC


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

In article ,
Morgans wrote:
...snipped...

Add to that, that the makers of rotors for the Detroit iron used to age each
rotor, for up to a year before they put the factory turning on it and
shipped it out. That is the primary reason they used to hardly ever warp,
and if they did, not so badly. Do you think the Chinese age their cast iron
for a year? Nope.

Speaking from 34 years professional experience in fleet vehicle maintenance
I would seriously doubt that assertion.



--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

In article ,
Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:50:42 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I just replaced them last year, rotor and pads. You can't find anyone to
resurface rotors anymore.

My mechanic tells me that the rotors are made so thin nowadays
(supposedly to save weight) that it's not safe to turn them down.

--
This message was for rec.woodworking - if it appears in homeownershub
they ripped it off.

Most auto manufacturers do not recommend resurfacing rotors any more. And
for most models, the cost today os so low that it doesn't pay anyway. Rotors
for many models are only $20 or so, I've purchased some for my Jeep that
(198,000 miles on it) as low as $15 each. I remember when a mid-sized brake
rotors were in the $60 to $90 range.



--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

Seek out builders of quality goods, and spend the little (or even not so little) to get that quality. Starve out the rats and they'll go away. It is consumers who are, ultimately, more price-conscious than value conscious that allow this garbage to remain economically viable for its producers.

I'm not saying that you had lots of options with the brakes, but when you do have options, consider them carefully, and look to the long-term.

Just my two cents' worth.

"Jeff Mazur" wrote:

Seek out builders of quality goods, and spend the little (or even not
so little) to get that quality. Starve out the rats and they'll go
away. It is consumers who are, ultimately, more price-conscious than
value conscious that allow this garbage to remain economically viable
for its producers.

I'm not saying that you had lots of options with the brakes, but when
you do have options, consider them carefully, and look to the
long-term.

Just my two cents' worth.
------------------------------------------------------
As a representative of suppliers of premium goods and services,
I always had competitors who had a lower price on their side.

Somehow, managed to make a living.

The old adage still applies:

Only the seller knows the true value of the goods or services in any
transaction.

Lew

On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 18:59:43 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"Jeff Mazur" wrote:

Seek out builders of quality goods, and spend the little (or even not
so little) to get that quality. Starve out the rats and they'll go
away. It is consumers who are, ultimately, more price-conscious than
value conscious that allow this garbage to remain economically viable
for its producers.

I'm not saying that you had lots of options with the brakes, but when
you do have options, consider them carefully, and look to the
long-term.

Just my two cents' worth.
------------------------------------------------------
As a representative of suppliers of premium goods and services,
I always had competitors who had a lower price on their side.

Somehow, managed to make a living.

The old adage still applies:

Only the seller knows the true value of the goods or services in any
transaction.

Lew


John Ruskin had it right in is "common law of business balance" :

There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a
little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider
price alone are that person's lawful prey. It's unwise to pay too
much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you
lose a little money – that is all. When you pay too little, you
sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable
of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business
balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can't be
done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something
for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay
for something better.

On Saturday, 7 December 2013 19:50:42 UTC, woodchucker wrote:

Anyway in one year the Chinese ****ty rotors are gone. I used OEM
Toyota pads, I checked the calipers are fine they are not hanging up...
So the answer is the crappy rotors just ate away so fast. $26 per rotor..
Pads were higher than the pair of rotors.

FWIW about 18 months ago I replaced the rotors and pads on my car with Bosch
items. And very good they have been, too. They cost 80 quid all in (with a
can of brake cleaner), so that's about USD120 ish. Brakes and tyres I will
not skimp on.

On 12/8/2013 1:07 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 December 2013 19:50:42 UTC, woodchucker wrote:

Anyway in one year the Chinese ****ty rotors are gone. I used OEM
Toyota pads, I checked the calipers are fine they are not hanging up...
So the answer is the crappy rotors just ate away so fast. $26 per rotor..
Pads were higher than the pair of rotors.

FWIW about 18 months ago I replaced the rotors and pads on my car with Bosch
items. And very good they have been, too. They cost 80 quid all in (with a
can of brake cleaner), so that's about USD120 ish. Brakes and tyres I will
not skimp on.


And with Rotor and pads thats about what I spent.
And again last night.

There are no made in usa rotors avail.
I am not even sure if Toyota is made in Japan anymore, look at most of
the Japanese electronics, it's made in China..I wouldn't doubt that the
rotors are coming from China for the Toy. I had to get them and Toyota
was not open so I'm not certain.



--
Jeff

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 14:06:08 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 12/8/2013 1:07 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 December 2013 19:50:42 UTC, woodchucker wrote:

Anyway in one year the Chinese ****ty rotors are gone. I used OEM
Toyota pads, I checked the calipers are fine they are not hanging up...
So the answer is the crappy rotors just ate away so fast. $26 per rotor..
Pads were higher than the pair of rotors.

FWIW about 18 months ago I replaced the rotors and pads on my car with Bosch
items. And very good they have been, too. They cost 80 quid all in (with a
can of brake cleaner), so that's about USD120 ish. Brakes and tyres I will
not skimp on.


And with Rotor and pads thats about what I spent.
And again last night.

There are no made in usa rotors avail.
I am not even sure if Toyota is made in Japan anymore, look at most of
the Japanese electronics, it's made in China..I wouldn't doubt that the
rotors are coming from China for the Toy. I had to get them and Toyota
was not open so I'm not certain.
The old Thyssen Krupp (now Waupaca) still makes brake rotors - for
OEM at any rate - not sure how many make it to replacement market.
There are still some made in Canada too - and a fair number of
Brazillian and Mexican producers and European producers also sell in
the North American market. They are more expensive than the 3C stuff,
but usually significantly higher quality and quality control.