In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price objections ($3k), he and I talked about cheaper suggestions. He said, oh, we could do Sonotube piers. I agreed but the project at that point stalled as I lost the person who was going to help.

Anyways, I found another person and he said he and I would do the foundation layout, digging, etc. ourselves. I told him my soil is kinda hard (clay and possible sandstone). No problem, just water the area and it will soften. I did a test dig yesterday and the water didn't drain for over an hour. Hmm, this is gonna be tough going.

Here's where I'm at. I could go with on-grade foundation using solid concrete blocks to level up the low spots. Not a problem for me, easy to layout and make happen. Or... we could get a power auger and drill the Sonotube piers. My helper who is a expert carpenter is away on vacation until two days before we start, so I can't get his opinion.

Which way would you go? Block or tubes?

My only concern is earth movement. Earthquakes are possibility. But a rare one. Would one would see a wood foundation come off a cement block pier in a minor (less then Richter 2) quake? I thought of drilling into the block and holding the joists with anchors. Can you drill solid block?

MJ

On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:11:29 -0700 (PDT), MJ
wrote:

In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price objections ($3k), he and I talked about cheaper suggestions. He said, oh, we could do Sonotube piers. I agreed but the project at that point stalled as I lost the person who was going to help.

Anyways, I found another person and he said he and I would do the foundation layout, digging, etc. ourselves. I told him my soil is kinda hard (clay and possible sandstone). No problem, just water the area and it will soften. I did a test dig yesterday and the water didn't drain for over an hour. Hmm, this is gonna be tough going.

Here's where I'm at. I could go with on-grade foundation using solid concrete blocks to level up the low spots. Not a problem for me, easy to layout and make happen. Or... we could get a power auger and drill the Sonotube piers. My helper who is a expert carpenter is away on vacation until two days before we start, so I can't get his opinion.

Which way would you go? Block or tubes?

My only concern is earth movement. Earthquakes are possibility. But a rare one. Would one would see a wood foundation come off a cement block pier in a minor (less then Richter 2) quake? I thought of drilling into the block and holding the joists with anchors. Can you drill solid block?

MJ


Here is some info on site prep. I have crushed stone
http://skipsonline.com/knowledge-base/site-preparation/

I was going to get a 10 x 12 too, but opted for a 10 x 16 and I'm glad
I did.

On 8/4/13 2:11 PM, MJ wrote:
In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property
is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a
guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price
objections ($3k), he and I talked about cheaper suggestions. He
said, oh, we could do Sonotube piers. I agreed but the project at
that point stalled as I lost the person who was going to help.

Anyways, I found another person and he said he and I would do the
foundation layout, digging, etc. ourselves. I told him my soil is
kinda hard (clay and possible sandstone). No problem, just water the
area and it will soften. I did a test dig yesterday and the water
didn't drain for over an hour. Hmm, this is gonna be tough going.

Here's where I'm at. I could go with on-grade foundation using solid
concrete blocks to level up the low spots. Not a problem for me, easy
to layout and make happen. Or... we could get a power auger and drill
the Sonotube piers. My helper who is a expert carpenter is away on
vacation until two days before we start, so I can't get his opinion.

Which way would you go? Block or tubes?

My only concern is earth movement. Earthquakes are possibility. But a
rare one. Would one would see a wood foundation come off a cement
block pier in a minor (less then Richter 2) quake? I thought of
drilling into the block and holding the joists with anchors. Can you
drill solid block?

MJ



You might be trying to NASA-tise this. :-)
8 inches is nothing, one concrete block. You could dig one side down
only 4 inches and it wouldn't look too high on the other side.

As for a foundation, where in the country are you? If you have a lot of
freeze and thaw, you may want a foundation under the freeze line. If you
don't have long hard winters, you could hand dig shallow pier holes or
wider pads for crushed stone and a concrete post block. I'm in TN and I
dug shallow pads filled with crushed stone, on top of which sit flat
cement blocks that the wood skids sit on. My shed is a bit smaller than
yours and hasn't moved in 12 years.

I think block on stone would work for you and you could do it yourself
in an afternoon.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 15:49:11 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:11:29 -0700 (PDT), MJ
wrote:

In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price objections ($3k), he and I talked about cheaper suggestions. He said, oh, we could do Sonotube piers. I agreed but the project at that point stalled as I lost the person who was going to help.

Anyways, I found another person and he said he and I would do the foundation layout, digging, etc. ourselves. I told him my soil is kinda hard (clay and possible sandstone). No problem, just water the area and it will soften. I did a test dig yesterday and the water didn't drain for over an hour. Hmm, this is gonna be tough going.

Here's where I'm at. I could go with on-grade foundation using solid concrete blocks to level up the low spots. Not a problem for me, easy to layout and make happen. Or... we could get a power auger and drill the Sonotube piers. My helper who is a expert carpenter is away on vacation until two days before we start, so I can't get his opinion.

Which way would you go? Block or tubes?

My only concern is earth movement. Earthquakes are possibility. But a rare one. Would one would see a wood foundation come off a cement block pier in a minor (less then Richter 2) quake? I thought of drilling into the block and holding the joists with anchors. Can you drill solid block?

MJ


Here is some info on site prep. I have crushed stone
http://skipsonline.com/knowledge-base/site-preparation/

I was going to get a 10 x 12 too, but opted for a 10 x 16 and I'm glad
I did.

A 12 X 16 is the ideal small unit size. Makes it much easier to handle
8ft boards and plywood if you're going to have a table saw. Where we
are, the general practice is pole buildings. If you have to deal with
a slope, that's the way to go. Just rent a power auger, dig the holes,
set the poles, rest for a week and then frame it up and finish it off.
Even if your only going for storage space, you never have enough. (G)
**
Lonesome Dove

On 8/4/2013 4:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/4/13 2:11 PM, MJ wrote:
In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property
is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a
guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price
objections ($3k), he and I talked about cheaper suggestions. He
said, oh, we could do Sonotube piers. I agreed but the project at
that point stalled as I lost the person who was going to help.

Anyways, I found another person and he said he and I would do the
foundation layout, digging, etc. ourselves. I told him my soil is
kinda hard (clay and possible sandstone). No problem, just water the
area and it will soften. I did a test dig yesterday and the water
didn't drain for over an hour. Hmm, this is gonna be tough going.

Here's where I'm at. I could go with on-grade foundation using solid
concrete blocks to level up the low spots. Not a problem for me, easy
to layout and make happen. Or... we could get a power auger and drill
the Sonotube piers. My helper who is a expert carpenter is away on
vacation until two days before we start, so I can't get his opinion.

Which way would you go? Block or tubes?

My only concern is earth movement. Earthquakes are possibility. But a
rare one. Would one would see a wood foundation come off a cement
block pier in a minor (less then Richter 2) quake? I thought of
drilling into the block and holding the joists with anchors. Can you
drill solid block?

MJ



You might be trying to NASA-tise this. :-)

Agreed, our shed is only a 10x10, but I just built a 2x8 frame on 16"
centers covered with ply and sat the whole thing on four pier blocks,
shed went up from there and this Toronto Canada. The area was level though.


--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

In ,
MJ belched:
In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property
is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a
guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price
objections ($3k), he and I talked about cheaper suggestions. He
said, oh, we could do Sonotube piers. I agreed but the project at
that point stalled as I lost the person who was going to help.

Anyways, I found another person and he said he and I would do the
foundation layout, digging, etc. ourselves. I told him my soil is
kinda hard (clay and possible sandstone). No problem, just water the
area and it will soften. I did a test dig yesterday and the water
didn't drain for over an hour. Hmm, this is gonna be tough going.

Here's where I'm at. I could go with on-grade foundation using solid
concrete blocks to level up the low spots. Not a problem for me, easy
to layout and make happen. Or... we could get a power auger and drill
the Sonotube piers. My helper who is a expert carpenter is away on
vacation until two days before we start, so I can't get his opinion.

Which way would you go? Block or tubes?

My only concern is earth movement. Earthquakes are possibility. But a
rare one. Would one would see a wood foundation come off a cement
block pier in a minor (less then Richter 2) quake? I thought of
drilling into the block and holding the joists with anchors. Can you
drill solid block?

MJ

Personally, i would do the Sonotubes.
I had built a 16x20 and they used concrete blocks. I have to have it jacked
up and leveled every couple of years because the blocks slowly sink into the
ground. I wish now i had done piers/sonotubes
I'm getting ready to jack it up again and I'm going to replace the 4x4 skids
with steel I beams so that I can drill holes in the ends to accomodate a
cleavis hook to hook the farm jacks to and make it easier to jack up with
less stress on the building. Plus the I beams won't warp/twist like the 4x4s
and hopefully stay straighter
jmo & ymmv

On 8/4/2013 3:11 PM, MJ wrote:
In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price objections ($3k), he and I talked about cheaper suggestions. He said, oh, we could do Sonotube piers. I agreed but the project at that point stalled as I lost the person who was going to help.

Anyways, I found another person and he said he and I would do the foundation layout, digging, etc. ourselves. I told him my soil is kinda hard (clay and possible sandstone). No problem, just water the area and it will soften. I did a test dig yesterday and the water didn't drain for over an hour. Hmm, this is gonna be tough going.

Here's where I'm at. I could go with on-grade foundation using solid concrete blocks to level up the low spots. Not a problem for me, easy to layout and make happen. Or... we could get a power auger and drill the Sonotube piers. My helper who is a expert carpenter is away on vacation until two days before we start, so I can't get his opinion.

Which way would you go? Block or tubes?

My only concern is earth movement. Earthquakes are possibility. But a rare one. Would one would see a wood foundation come off a cement block pier in a minor (less then Richter 2) quake? I thought of drilling into the block and holding the joists with anchors. Can you drill solid block?

MJ

Two years ago I had a 10 X 12 shed built for lawn equipment. It is
built on a 2 X 6 floor with 2 X 6 on 16 inch centers. It was leveled on
blocks. (20 miles east of Raleigh NC in a rural area)

While there has been a lot of good advice, the one thing that must be
consider when building are the building requirements for the community
you live. In this area there are no building requirements or permits
required if the building is 120 square feet or less. If I had run fixed
electricity to the shed I would have been required to get a permit.

Depending on the area they may have unique ideas on how sheds are
constructed including the foundations they are built on.

There is another considerations. While others have made comments on
what they have in their sheds, I don't believe you said how you were
going to use yours. If you have a lot of heavy equipment table saws
drill press,grinders, etc, with a lot of vibration I am not sure I
would consider blocks. Though you would not believe what some people
consider foundations for houses. Some of the old houses in the south
are built on a pile of stones. You wonder how they still are together
after 100 years. Some look like removing one stone would bring the
whole house down.

On 8/4/2013 7:18 PM, ChairMan wrote:


I'm getting ready to jack it up again and I'm going to replace the 4x4 skids
with steel I beams so that I can drill holes in the ends to accomodate a
cleavis hook to hook the farm jacks to and make it easier to jack up with
less stress on the building. Plus the I beams won't warp/twist like the 4x4s
and hopefully stay straighter
jmo & ymmv


Now may be the time to do the Sonotubes. Drill the tubes right next to
the shed. Make the steel beams a foot longer to sit on the concrete.

On 8/4/2013 3:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

As for a foundation, where in the country are you?

The most important element needed to effectively answer the OP's question.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

MJ wrote:
In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property
is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a
guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price
objections ($3k), he and I talked about cheaper suggestions. He
said, oh, we could do Sonotube piers. I agreed but the project at
that point stalled as I lost the person who was going to help.

Anyways, I found another person and he said he and I would do the
foundation layout, digging, etc. ourselves. I told him my soil is
kinda hard (clay and possible sandstone). No problem, just water the
area and it will soften. I did a test dig yesterday and the water
didn't drain for over an hour. Hmm, this is gonna be tough going.

Here's where I'm at. I could go with on-grade foundation using solid
concrete blocks to level up the low spots. Not a problem for me, easy
to layout and make happen. Or... we could get a power auger and drill
the Sonotube piers. My helper who is a expert carpenter is away on
vacation until two days before we start, so I can't get his opinion.

Which way would you go? Block or tubes?

My only concern is earth movement. Earthquakes are possibility. But a
rare one. Would one would see a wood foundation come off a cement
block pier in a minor (less then Richter 2) quake? I thought of
drilling into the block and holding the joists with anchors. Can you
drill solid block?


Well, you could use gravel or crushed limestone to level in the areas for
the blocks, or to lay your 6x6 right on. Just be sure to compact it well
before building on the fill. If you compact it well, it will hold for
decades.

--

-Mike-

-MIKE- wrote:


You might be trying to NASA-tise this. :-)
8 inches is nothing, one concrete block. You could dig one side down
only 4 inches and it wouldn't look too high on the other side.

As for a foundation, where in the country are you? If you have a lot
of freeze and thaw, you may want a foundation under the freeze line.
If you don't have long hard winters, you could hand dig shallow pier
holes or wider pads for crushed stone and a concrete post block. I'm
in TN and I dug shallow pads filled with crushed stone, on top of
which sit flat cement blocks that the wood skids sit on. My shed is a
bit smaller than yours and hasn't moved in 12 years.

I think block on stone would work for you and you could do it yourself
in an afternoon.

Excellent commentary. I do live in the frost zone - I'm in the Syracuse, NY
area and our frost goes a full 4' every winter. My shed is about 20 years
old and is built on concrete blocks around the perimeter. I did not use any
gravel fill or crushed limestone. I simply leveled in the blocks in the
natural soils. It's still there - level and plumb, and doing just fine.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:


You might be trying to NASA-tise this. :-)
8 inches is nothing, one concrete block. You could dig one side down
only 4 inches and it wouldn't look too high on the other side.

As for a foundation, where in the country are you? If you have a lot
of freeze and thaw, you may want a foundation under the freeze line.
If you don't have long hard winters, you could hand dig shallow pier
holes or wider pads for crushed stone and a concrete post block. I'm
in TN and I dug shallow pads filled with crushed stone, on top of
which sit flat cement blocks that the wood skids sit on. My shed is a
bit smaller than yours and hasn't moved in 12 years.

I think block on stone would work for you and you could do it
yourself in an afternoon.

Excellent commentary. I do live in the frost zone - I'm in the
Syracuse, NY area and our frost goes a full 4' every winter. My shed
is about 20 years old and is built on concrete blocks around the
perimeter. I did not use any gravel fill or crushed limestone. I
simply leveled in the blocks in the natural soils. It's still there
- level and plumb, and doing just fine.

Should have included that my shed is 16x20 and is two stories tall. I
easily get 4-5 feet of snow build up on the roof over the winter, and I used
to park both a snowmobile and a garden tractor in there, besides all of the
clutter that a shed is supposed to contain.

--

-Mike-

On 8/4/2013 3:11 PM, MJ wrote:
In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price objections ($3k), he and I talked about cheaper suggestions. He said, oh, we could do Sonotube piers. I agreed but the project at that point stalled as I lost the person who was going to help.

Anyways, I found another person and he said he and I would do the foundation layout, digging, etc. ourselves. I told him my soil is kinda hard (clay and possible sandstone). No problem, just water the area and it will soften. I did a test dig yesterday and the water didn't drain for over an hour. Hmm, this is gonna be tough going.

Here's where I'm at. I could go with on-grade foundation using solid concrete blocks to level up the low spots. Not a problem for me, easy to layout and make happen. Or... we could get a power auger and drill the Sonotube piers. My helper who is a expert carpenter is away on vacation until two days before we start, so I can't get his opinion.

Which way would you go? Block or tubes?

My only concern is earth movement. Earthquakes are possibility. But a rare one. Would one would see a wood foundation come off a cement block pier in a minor (less then Richter 2) quake? I thought of drilling into the block and holding the joists with anchors. Can you drill solid block?

MJ


I would have a few tons of 3/4 gravel delivered.

That's what I did...I leveled the gravel, the shed has been fine, and
dry from all the gravel... which allows water to get farther away from
the shed than being on the earth.

--
Jeff

There is another considerations. While others have made comments on

what they have in their sheds, I don't believe you said how you were

going to use yours. If you have a lot of heavy equipment table saws

drill press,grinders, etc, with a lot of vibration I am not sure I

would consider blocks.

I already have a fully wired shop. This shed is just for excess wood, garden equipment (no tractors), and misc. stuff from the garage so the SHMBO can park her car into her side of the garage. No machinery that will be operated. I might store some light equipment in there, but I'll use it in the shop.

MJ

I had built a 16x20 and they used concrete blocks. I have to have it jacked

up and leveled every couple of years because the blocks slowly sink into the

ground.

One of my concerns. My soil is clay with possibility of sandstone. Would you think a power auger can get through all of that?

MJ

On 8/4/2013 8:57 PM, MJ wrote:

I had built a 16x20 and they used concrete blocks. I have to have it jacked

up and leveled every couple of years because the blocks slowly sink into the

ground.

One of my concerns. My soil is clay with possibility of sandstone. Would you think a power auger can get through all of that?

MJ

From what you are saying about the soil, size, and things that will be
stored in the shed I think I would go with the properly leveld blocks.
It will probably be there long after you leave.

MJ wrote:
I had built a 16x20 and they used concrete blocks. I have to have it
jacked

up and leveled every couple of years because the blocks slowly sink
into the

ground.

One of my concerns. My soil is clay with possibility of sandstone.
Would you think a power auger can get through all of that?


Yes - a power auger can get through it, but as I and others have suggested -
why do that? BTW - clay and sandstone strikes me as an usual combination in
a piece of terain. Are you sure about that?

--

-Mike-

On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:11:29 -0700 (PDT), MJ
wrote:

In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price objections ($3k), he and I talked about cheaper suggestions. He said, oh, we could do Sonotube piers. I agreed but the project at that point stalled as I lost the person who was going to help.

Anyways, I found another person and he said he and I would do the foundation layout, digging, etc. ourselves. I told him my soil is kinda hard (clay and possible sandstone). No problem, just water the area and it will soften. I did a test dig yesterday and the water didn't drain for over an hour. Hmm, this is gonna be tough going.

Here's where I'm at. I could go with on-grade foundation using solid concrete blocks to level up the low spots. Not a problem for me, easy to layout and make happen. Or... we could get a power auger and drill the Sonotube piers. My helper who is a expert carpenter is away on vacation until two days before we start, so I can't get his opinion.

Which way would you go? Block or tubes?

My only concern is earth movement. Earthquakes are possibility. But a rare one. Would one would see a wood foundation come off a cement block pier in a minor (less then Richter 2) quake? I thought of drilling into the block and holding the joists with anchors. Can you drill solid block?

MJ
Frost? If so, sonotube below frost line, and cast your anchor bolts
into the concrete of the sonotube pilings.

On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:11:29 -0700 (PDT), MJ wrote:

In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price objections ($3k)


Wow $3k for a 10x12, I'm always shocked when I see how much it cost to do things in other parts of the country.
This is an order of magnitude greater than it would cost in AL.

I know there is a lot of differences in areas, frost depth, general labor cost, cost of concrete, difficulty of
grading and prep and site access, but even worst case in all areas, $3k seems excessive.

It would be hard to beat sono tubes below frost line and cast in place anchors.

basilisk

On 8/5/2013 8:56 AM, basilisk wrote:
On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:11:29 -0700 (PDT), MJ wrote:

In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price objections ($3k)


Wow $3k for a 10x12, I'm always shocked when I see how much it cost to do things in other parts of the country.
This is an order of magnitude greater than it would cost in AL.

I know there is a lot of differences in areas, frost depth, general labor cost, cost of concrete, difficulty of
grading and prep and site access, but even worst case in all areas, $3k seems excessive.

It would be hard to beat sono tubes below frost line and cast in place anchors.

basilisk


You can build a 10 X 12 building for $300. I don't even think you could
build for that using scrap lumber. My 10 X 12 barn roof shed cost
about $2500 installed.

2 X 4 X 8' are about $2.5 /ea
4X8 3/4 pressure treated plywood about $35/ea.

"basilisk" wrote in message

On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:11:29 -0700 (PDT), MJ wrote:

In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6
skids. My property is sloped. From high pt to low pt is
about 8 inches. I called out a guy and asked about
pouring a slab. After I got over the price objections
($3k)


Wow $3k for a 10x12, I'm always shocked when I see how
much it cost to do things in other parts of the country.
This is an order of magnitude greater than it would cost
in AL.

I know there is a lot of differences in areas, frost
depth, general labor cost, cost of concrete, difficulty
of grading and prep and site access, but even worst case
in all areas, $3k seems excessive.


Indeed. We're only talking about around 1 1/2 yards of concrete for the
slab. Somewhat more for integral footers but even so...

I haven't had any concrete work done for years but I doubt the cost of a
yard is much more than $85/cy in Central Florida. Say $100 with rod, wire
and all. Call it $200 for what he needs. Add some base. Add two men for a
day (should be more like a half day). If they wanted even $1500 total I'd
feel raped and I'd be looking elsewhere.

The going price around here is $2.75/sq.ft. for sidewalks; I suspect a slab
would be somewhat higher but I bet I could get a 10' x 12' x 4" slab for
$500, $750 tops.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"knuttle" wrote in message

You can build a 10 X 12 building for $300. I don't even
think you could build for that using scrap lumber. My
10 X 12 barn roof shed cost about $2500 installed.

I take it you meant, "You can'T build a 10 X 12 building for $3000".

OP was talking about $3000 for a *SLAB*. JUST the slab.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.
The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property
is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a
guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price
objections ($3k), he and I talked about cheaper suggestions.

$3000 for a 10x12 slab? Ouch. Even if I built simple forms and dug it down
so it was a full 12" thick all around it would cost less than $800 for 5
yards of concrete here (Washington State).

A slab that size is not difficult to do yourself (with a part time helper).
Just build the forms, make sure they're square and level, and have some
concrete delivered. Use a board to work out any air bubbles during the
pour, then use a long board and your helper to screed off the concrete
level with the forms.

You're not building a house, so I probably wouldn't worry about frost
lines. Just let it float on top of the ground. It may move up and down with
the freeze/thaw and end up slightly out of level, but so what? It's a shed.

For small pours like this, I prefer to use companies with trucks that mix
concrete right on site. There's less waste and you only pay for the
concrete you use.

Last time I priced an 8x12 shed, it was cheaper to pour a (4") concrete
slab than to build a wood floor with 2x6 floor joists and plywood. Concrete
is also nice if you're storing outdoor equipment such as mowers or tillers,
since you don't need to worry about water running off onto the floor.

I would make the upper edge of the forms with 2x4's, then add filler boards
underneath on the low end to accomodate the slope. You don't need to dig
the whole area down to the same level, but I would probably try to dig out
flat stepped areas so there's minimal risk of movement on the slope. I
would also dig a little deeper around the perimeter to make "footings", how
deep is up to you.

Plan to install some "J" concrete anchor bolts after screeding the concrete
so you can bolt the shed to the slab once it's set up.

Even if the shed shifts over time, or you decide you want it in a different
location, you can always move the shed and pour a new slab like we did:

http://www.mountainsoftware.com/projects/2005shed.htm

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com/anthony.htm

On 8/5/2013 8:45 AM, knuttle wrote:


You can build a 10 X 12 building for $300. I don't even think you could
build for that using scrap lumber. My 10 X 12 barn roof shed cost
about $2500 installed.

2 X 4 X 8' are about $2.5 /ea
4X8 3/4 pressure treated plywood about $35/ea.

Go back and read it again, Keith.

it was $3k ($3,000) for JUST the concrete pad. AFAIK, the OP has not
even discussed the cost of the building itself.

On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:09:03 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

"basilisk" wrote in message

On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:11:29 -0700 (PDT), MJ wrote:

In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6
skids. My property is sloped. From high pt to low pt is
about 8 inches. I called out a guy and asked about
pouring a slab. After I got over the price objections
($3k)


Wow $3k for a 10x12, I'm always shocked when I see how
much it cost to do things in other parts of the country.
This is an order of magnitude greater than it would cost
in AL.

I know there is a lot of differences in areas, frost
depth, general labor cost, cost of concrete, difficulty
of grading and prep and site access, but even worst case
in all areas, $3k seems excessive.


Indeed. We're only talking about around 1 1/2 yards of concrete for the
slab. Somewhat more for integral footers but even so...

I haven't had any concrete work done for years but I doubt the cost of a
yard is much more than $85/cy in Central Florida. Say $100 with rod, wire
and all. Call it $200 for what he needs. Add some base. Add two men for a
day (should be more like a half day). If they wanted even $1500 total I'd
feel raped and I'd be looking elsewhere.

The going price around here is $2.75/sq.ft. for sidewalks; I suspect a slab
would be somewhat higher but I bet I could get a 10' x 12' x 4" slab for
$500, $750 tops.

Last concrete I used was about a year ago, it was $75 yard, I am in a good
area for concrete, within a 40 mile radius of me there are portland plants
sand pits and rock quarries. probably many places have considerable
freight to the batch plants.

basilisk

On 8/5/2013 9:14 AM, HerHusband wrote:

A slab that size is not difficult to do yourself (with a part time helper).
Just build the forms, make sure they're square and level, and have some
concrete delivered. Use a board to work out any air bubbles during the
pour, then use a long board and your helper to screed off the concrete
level with the forms.

On a 10 x 12 slab you will also want to factor in wire mesh/rebar (#3 on
16" centers would be my preference for a slab that size) if you want it
to last ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 8/4/13 6:52 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:


You might be trying to NASA-tise this. :-)
8 inches is nothing, one concrete block. You could dig one side down
only 4 inches and it wouldn't look too high on the other side.

As for a foundation, where in the country are you? If you have a lot
of freeze and thaw, you may want a foundation under the freeze line.
If you don't have long hard winters, you could hand dig shallow pier
holes or wider pads for crushed stone and a concrete post block. I'm
in TN and I dug shallow pads filled with crushed stone, on top of
which sit flat cement blocks that the wood skids sit on. My shed is a
bit smaller than yours and hasn't moved in 12 years.

I think block on stone would work for you and you could do it yourself
in an afternoon.

Excellent commentary. I do live in the frost zone - I'm in the Syracuse, NY
area and our frost goes a full 4' every winter. My shed is about 20 years
old and is built on concrete blocks around the perimeter. I did not use any
gravel fill or crushed limestone. I simply leveled in the blocks in the
natural soils. It's still there - level and plumb, and doing just fine.


If there's enough loose, porous fill underneath, you will get just what
you describe and everything's fine.
In fact, for a small shed it's probably *better* than digging post
holes. Posts in the ground can be lifted by freeze and next thing you
know, your sheds un-level.

If water freezes in a loose fill pad and raises the shed a bit, it falls
back down after the thaw.

[Mike, ignore any email reply you may get from me. I hit the wrong button.]


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Monday, August 5, 2013 10:42:21 AM UTC-5, basilisk wrote:
Last concrete I used was about a year ago, it was $75 yard, I am in a good area for concrete, within a 40 mile radius of me there are portland plants sand pits and rock quarries. probably many places have considerable freight to the batch plants. basilisk

The last slab I had poured, in 2010, (2X6 surface forms, so slab was ~ 6" thick), and worked by my nephew and I (a 1 day job for the pour itself), was for the shop garage (12'W X 24'L, which included 60' of footings) and continuous with the new driveway (12'W X 24'L) cost me $1200 for 17yds of concrete. Don't recall what the rebar and reinforcement wire cost. The rental for the bull float, other tools ~$50, maybe.

As Anthony said, pouring a slab is cheaper than a wood framing/pillared foundation. For my area, a slab 10X12, 6" thick, ~2.5 yds ~ $200 (4" thick - $150); for a 12X16, 6" thick, ~3.75 yds ~ $350 ($225 for 4" thick), plus all the prep fees.

Sonny

On 8/4/2013 2:11 PM, MJ wrote:
In a week, I'll be building a 10x12 shed.

The plans call for a on-grade foundation with 6x6 skids. My property is sloped. From high pt to low pt is about 8 inches. I called out a guy and asked about pouring a slab. After I got over the price objections ($3k), he and I talked about cheaper suggestions. He said, oh, we could do Sonotube piers. I agreed but the project at that point stalled as I lost the person who was going to help.

Anyways, I found another person and he said he and I would do the foundation layout, digging, etc. ourselves. I told him my soil is kinda hard (clay and possible sandstone). No problem, just water the area and it will soften. I did a test dig yesterday and the water didn't drain for over an hour. Hmm, this is gonna be tough going.

Here's where I'm at. I could go with on-grade foundation using solid concrete blocks to level up the low spots. Not a problem for me, easy to layout and make happen. Or... we could get a power auger and drill the Sonotube piers. My helper who is a expert carpenter is away on vacation until two days before we start, so I can't get his opinion.

Which way would you go? Block or tubes?

My only concern is earth movement. Earthquakes are possibility. But a rare one. Would one would see a wood foundation come off a cement block pier in a minor (less then Richter 2) quake? I thought of drilling into the block and holding the joists with anchors. Can you drill solid block?

MJ



I built my first shed, 10x12, sunk PT posts into pea gravel 12". It
easily withstood a hurricane with no leaks.

New house and I let TuffShed build one this time. 8x14. I very much
like this size more than the 10x12. It sets on top of concrete blocks
and has a galvanized steel foundation. It can be anchored down if
necessary. I paid about $3600 installed and two coats of paint with a
10 year warranty.

I would never go the expense of a concrete foundation.

Wow $3k for a 10x12, I'm always shocked when I see how much it cost to do things in other parts of the country.

This is an order of magnitude greater than it would cost in AL.


I live in Northern California, 45 miles north of the Golden Gate. No frost level to speak of.

The quote came from the contractor who built my house over 10 years ago. He's a wonderful guy and he explained the work that needed to be done to pour the slab. I have a sloping property and he was going to have to mitigate any water that might surround the slab. The way he described it, it sounded like a lot of work, but at $3k, I skipped it and went looking for piers. He told me that to put his crew on site is $1k per day and my slab would roughly be 3 days. I suspect that he might only needed two days, but this was a guess.

MJ

On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:11:29 -0700 (PDT), MJ
wrote:

u
First thing of importance is any local requirements. Secondly if not
on a slab it's good to have it up to where you have access if needed.
Sono tubes can be a good way to go and are easy depending on what your
frost level is. Helping the neighbor put in a 14 x 20 shed right now
where we have 5' drop over the 14'. I have an excavator so it's
working out with lots of big rocks available to build retaining walls.
But there was the adventure when the ground gave way and I slipped
down the side of a rock. Your talking two old guys looking at each
other with big moon eyes as I wondered if I was going over, and he
wondered if it was on him. Learned to wear the seat belt when the
unknown can happen so all was well.

On Tue, 6 Aug 2013 15:12:03 -0700 (PDT), MJ
wrote:


Wow $3k for a 10x12, I'm always shocked when I see how much it cost to do things in other parts of the country.

This is an order of magnitude greater than it would cost in AL.


I live in Northern California, 45 miles north of the Golden Gate. No frost level to speak of.

The quote came from the contractor who built my house over 10 years ago. He's a wonderful guy and he explained the work that needed to be done to pour the slab. I have a sloping property and he was going to have to mitigate any water that might surround the slab. The way he described it, it sounded like a lot of work, but at $3k, I skipped it and went looking for piers. He told me that to put his crew on site is $1k per day and my slab would roughly be 3 days. I suspect that he might only needed two days, but this was a guess.

MJ

You have to remember everything a good contractor brings to your
house. Good insurance, a permit, and all the paperwork is in order.
In most states he incurs all the liability for an injury one of his
workers might have. You get to sit on the deck relaxing and get a
quality job. Thank your government leaders tha he can't compete with
you and your friend bubba to build your shed.

Mike M