On 3/25/2013 8:55 AM, woodchucker wrote:
Just meant to show that cauls can be simple and also used for other things.

So enlighten me here. I've seen cauls (pictures of them anyway) that
have a very slight curve on the surface that will touch the work. Your
picture has a much sharper curve at each end than I would have expected,
and I can't tell if the middle is curved or not.

My understanding is that the curve on the business edge is to provide
clamping pressure in the middle even though the clamps are only applied
to the ends. What is the pronounced curvature near the ends of your
cauls for?

On 3/26/13 1:14 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/25/2013 8:55 AM, woodchucker wrote:
Just meant to show that cauls can be simple and also used for other
things.

So enlighten me here. I've seen cauls (pictures of them anyway) that
have a very slight curve on the surface that will touch the work. Your
picture has a much sharper curve at each end than I would have expected,
and I can't tell if the middle is curved or not.

My understanding is that the curve on the business edge is to provide
clamping pressure in the middle even though the clamps are only applied
to the ends. What is the pronounced curvature near the ends of your
cauls for?

I don't want to answer for him, but... well, here I go. :-)

You are right about long cauls having a slight curve on the clamping
side, and you're correct on the reason for that curve. It would nice if
there was a formula for that curve in relation to the length of the
caul. Maybe the same guy who did the on-line shelf "sagulator" will do
one for cauls.

However, in the case of woodchucker's photo, in that application, the
curve is acting like a truss (think steel arch bridge) that keeps the
caul straight and able to clamp that distance without bending.

The difference between the two applications is in the former, you want
the caul to bend until it's touching all the boards, applying
(hopefully) equal pressure. In the latter, you don't want it to bend so
it keeps touching all the board(s) allowing it to apply equal pressure.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:42:11 -0500, -MIKE-
My second is wet wood-- the pine, maybe. Silly question, but was either
product pressure treated in any way? Was the pine recycled from another
project and treated with any kind of finish or solvent?

Nothing pressure treated or finished in any way ~ at least before the
glue dried and then I applied a Minwax stain and finish.

It occurred to me that the glue I applied didn't adhere well to the
layers of wood already glued together with the plywood. Or maybe,
just really poor quality plywood. In any event, it was a number of
years ago that I last worked on this and I haven't tried a similar
construction since.

Maybe it's time to try again, if only for information's sake.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:48:21 -0500, -MIKE-
In the case of gluing *and* finish-nailing a face frame, I still contend
that the purpose of the nails is to act as clamps until the glue dries.
Norm used to mention this a lot on his show.

I always thought, maybe mistakenly that the glue was just to add some
extra holding power. And yes, I've read the articles stating that a
properly glued wood connection is superior strength to the wood
surrounding the joint.

On 3/26/13 4:26 PM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:42:11 -0500, -MIKE-
My second is wet wood-- the pine, maybe. Silly question, but was either
product pressure treated in any way? Was the pine recycled from another
project and treated with any kind of finish or solvent?

Nothing pressure treated or finished in any way ~ at least before the
glue dried and then I applied a Minwax stain and finish.

It occurred to me that the glue I applied didn't adhere well to the
layers of wood already glued together with the plywood. Or maybe,
just really poor quality plywood. In any event, it was a number of
years ago that I last worked on this and I haven't tried a similar
construction since.

Maybe it's time to try again, if only for information's sake.


I would encourage you to try it again if the need arises.
It really is an easy and effective way to make plywood stronger and look
a lot better.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/26/13 4:30 PM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:48:21 -0500, -MIKE-
In the case of gluing *and* finish-nailing a face frame, I still contend
that the purpose of the nails is to act as clamps until the glue dries.
Norm used to mention this a lot on his show.

I always thought, maybe mistakenly that the glue was just to add some
extra holding power. And yes, I've read the articles stating that a
properly glued wood connection is superior strength to the wood
surrounding the joint.



Those articles are correct. And honestly, if the wood breaks before the
glue joint, isn't that stronger than it ever needs to be?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/26/2013 2:14 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/25/2013 8:55 AM, woodchucker wrote:
Just meant to show that cauls can be simple and also used for other
things.

So enlighten me here. I've seen cauls (pictures of them anyway) that
have a very slight curve on the surface that will touch the work. Your
picture has a much sharper curve at each end than I would have expected,
and I can't tell if the middle is curved or not.

My understanding is that the curve on the business edge is to provide
clamping pressure in the middle even though the clamps are only applied
to the ends. What is the pronounced curvature near the ends of your
cauls for?
Different caulse for different purposes.

I can bend these puppies very well, all the way flat. That's why they
taper so much.


Yes the middle gets a lot of pressure. There is a slight flat in the
middle, I started with a smooth radius. They were too thick in the
middle. As I played with them, I got them so that I can use most or all
of the caul. I have cauls that are less pronounced, but these are my
favorite. They haven't split, and do many different tasks. They are
super light, they work well on dovetails since they will imprint a
little. They don't mar.

My maple cauls are heavy less radiused.. lift about 1/8 from center to
end .

One of the great things about making things is being willing to
experiment. When the cost is not high try it. Try different things.
Sometimes what you hear is not always true. Sometimes there is good
reason that everyone does it one way. Cauls can be totally flat and just
spread the clamping pressure out. I chose to try something that would
fit many uses. As you can see, I use it for my dovetailing. I started
using it the opposite way, but it required a lot more turning of the
clamps. turning it over required less (why because of the large crown
that you asked about). But in an instant i can turn it over and squeeze
the living snot out of that board and have it so rigid I could drive a
chisel into the end if I wanted to.


So much for my book on a little question.
_So what stain did you use on your Shelves.. I like it and want the same._

--
Jeff

In article ,
woodchucker wrote:
...snipped...
Different cauls for different purposes.

Absolutely! It's your call!


--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On Mar 26, 6:35*pm, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/26/2013 2:14 PM, Greg Guarino wrote: On 3/25/2013 8:55 AM, woodchucker wrote:
Just meant to show that cauls can be simple and also used for other
things.

So enlighten me here. I've seen cauls (pictures of them anyway) that
have a very slight curve on the surface that will touch the work. Your
picture has a much sharper curve at each end than I would have expected,
and I can't tell if the middle is curved or not.

My understanding is that the curve on the business edge is to provide
clamping pressure in the middle even though the clamps are only applied
to the ends. What is the pronounced curvature near the ends of your
cauls for?

Different caulse for different purposes.

I can bend these puppies very well, all the way flat. That's why they
taper so much.

Yes the middle gets a lot of pressure. There is a slight flat in the
middle, I started with a smooth radius. They were too thick in the
middle. As I played with them, I got them so that I can use most or all
of the caul. *I have cauls that are less pronounced, but these are my
favorite. They haven't split, and do many different tasks. They are
super light, they work well on dovetails since they will imprint a
little. *They don't mar.

My maple cauls are heavy less radiused.. lift about 1/8 from center to
end .

One of the great things about making things is being willing to
experiment. When the cost is not high try it. Try different things.
Sometimes what you hear is not always true. Sometimes there is good
reason that everyone does it one way. Cauls can be totally flat and just
spread the clamping pressure out. I chose to try something that would
fit many uses. As you can see, I use it for my dovetailing. I started
using it the opposite way, but it required a lot more turning of the
clamps. turning it over required less (why because of the large crown
that you asked about). But in an instant i can turn it over and squeeze
the living snot out of that board and have it so rigid I could drive a
chisel into the end if I wanted to.

So much for my book on a little question.
_So what stain did you use on your Shelves.. I like it and want the same._

--
Jeff

Funny thing, that. I experimented with various combinations of MinWax
(Wood Finish) stains and came up with a small sample that I liked.
Then I tried to recreate it in a larger batch. Needless to say, it
never came out quite the same. I came up with a pretty decent mix, but
in the end decided to go with Gunstock, right out of the can. This is
partly because I knew I'd be able to recreate it anytime. I left it on
for just about the maximum recommended time before wiping.

I'm pleased with the results, although I'm not sure the combination of
my camera, a mix of fluorescent and incandescent lights and the
monitor on your computer adds up to faithful reproduction.

Dave wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:42:11 -0500, -MIKE-
My second is wet wood-- the pine, maybe. Silly question, but was
either product pressure treated in any way? Was the pine recycled
from another project and treated with any kind of finish or solvent?

Nothing pressure treated or finished in any way ~ at least before the
glue dried and then I applied a Minwax stain and finish.

It occurred to me that the glue I applied didn't adhere well to the
layers of wood already glued together with the plywood. Or maybe,
just really poor quality plywood. In any event, it was a number of
years ago that I last worked on this and I haven't tried a similar
construction since.

Maybe it's time to try again, if only for information's sake.

Given the usefulness of plywood and the ugliness of the edges, the ability
to glue solid wood to the edges should be cultivated. It isn't hard either;
all you need is...

1. smooth, square edges on both ply and wood

2. sufficient glue

3. sufficient pressure to hold them together until the glue dries.

Your previous failure may have been due to any or all of the above but I'm
thinking the most likely is insufficient glue. You don't want so much that
gobs squeeze out but enough to get a line of roughly pin head sized
globules.

All in all, much easier to apply than to trim flush.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"dadiOH" wrote:

Given the usefulness of plywood and the ugliness of the edges, the
ability to glue solid wood to the edges should be cultivated. It
isn't hard either; all you need is...

1. smooth, square edges on both ply and wood

2. sufficient glue

3. sufficient pressure to hold them together until the glue dries.

Your previous failure may have been due to any or all of the above
but I'm thinking the most likely is insufficient glue. You don't
want so much that gobs squeeze out but enough to get a line of
roughly pin head sized globules.

All in all, much easier to apply than to trim flush.
--------------------------------------------------------------
IMHO, exposed raw plywood edges are like ugly on an ape.

I prefer to band plywood visible edges with an interlocked tongue
and groove glued joint as follows:

(Think of tongue and groove construction used with wooden siding
of years ago.)

Assume a 3/4" plywood and a visible 3/4" solid wood edge.

Run a 1/4" x 9/32" deep dado centered on the 3/4" plywood edge.

Starting with a 1" x 3/4" solid wood piece, cut a 1/4" thick x 1/4"
long
tenon centered on the 3/4" solid wood piece.

(This yields a 3/4" x 3/4" solid wood band when assembled.)

The assembled edge banding yield a 33% increase in the gluing area of
the final joint (3/4"^2 vs, 1"^2) as well as creating a 3/4" vertical
interlock of solid wood.

Quick, low cost, and strong like bull.

The biggest PITA of the whole process is making sure the wood is flush
with the plywood after assembly, IMHO.

BTW, have used rubber bands and a dowel pin as clamps while the glue
dries. Surgical tubing also works.

Lew

On 3/27/13 6:30 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Dave wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:42:11 -0500, -MIKE-
My second is wet wood-- the pine, maybe. Silly question, but was
either product pressure treated in any way? Was the pine
recycled from another project and treated with any kind of finish
or solvent?

Nothing pressure treated or finished in any way ~ at least before
the glue dried and then I applied a Minwax stain and finish.

It occurred to me that the glue I applied didn't adhere well to
the layers of wood already glued together with the plywood. Or
maybe, just really poor quality plywood. In any event, it was a
number of years ago that I last worked on this and I haven't tried
a similar construction since.

Maybe it's time to try again, if only for information's sake.

Given the usefulness of plywood and the ugliness of the edges, the
ability to glue solid wood to the edges should be cultivated. It
isn't hard either; all you need is...

1. smooth, square edges on both ply and wood

2. sufficient glue

3. sufficient pressure to hold them together until the glue dries.

Your previous failure may have been due to any or all of the above
but I'm thinking the most likely is insufficient glue. You don't
want so much that gobs squeeze out but enough to get a line of
roughly pin head sized globules.

All in all, much easier to apply than to trim flush.


I'm not saying the OP did this, but it bears mentioning, because who
knows what might have happened or what he may have been told to do,
technique wise....

I was sort of mentoring a young man in the shop who was building a gift
for his wife. When we were in the process of gluing something, he asked
why I didn't let the glue "set-up" first before joining the parts.

Apparently, at some point in his life, he was building something with
someone else and from what I could surmise, they were using contact
cement. Well, he obviously had taken what he learned about contact
cement and falsely applied it to all gluing, in general.

It makes me wonder about the current condition of anything this young
man has ever glued before. :-)

There *are* techniques many of us have used where you apply glue to a
surfaces, especially porous ones like plywood, let it soak in a little,
then join together... or even add a bit more glue to the surface, and
join and clamp.

But that's not what I got from my experience with this gentleman. This
was more waiting so long that the glue was setting already. In any
case, those things always make me wonder what's "not' being said when
subjects like this come up.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/27/13 11:06 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
The biggest PITA of the whole process is making sure the wood is
flush with the plywood after assembly, IMHO.


I gave up spending the time and effort to even try to make them flush
when gluing and setting up. Now I simply make install them a bit proud
on purpose and then trim them flush with a pattern bit in the router.

I have a jig for running them vertically. I can do that in less time
than it would take to try to glue them flush.... plus, I never get it
perfect and end up going to the router, anyway, so why not cut to the
chase.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote:

I gave up spending the time and effort to even try to make them
flush
when gluing and setting up. Now I simply make install them a bit
proud
on purpose and then trim them flush with a pattern bit in the
router.
------------------------------------------
Be carefull.

I've used this technique and had a bit that cleaned up the wood
but also left cutter marks on the plywood.

After that ran test cuts with a different bit.

No problems.

Lew

On 3/27/13 1:48 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote:

I gave up spending the time and effort to even try to make them
flush when gluing and setting up. Now I simply make install them a
bit proud on purpose and then trim them flush with a pattern bit in
the router.
------------------------------------------ Be carefull.

I've used this technique and had a bit that cleaned up the wood but
also left cutter marks on the plywood.

After that ran test cuts with a different bit.

No problems.

Lew


You are correct, not all bits are the same. I prefer a to start with a
quality bit that is more likely to have an exact match between the
cutter and the bearing.

This isn't to say that a cheap bit will be off, but testing on some
scrap is recommended. We talking thou's here, so it's not something you
can see by looking at the edge of the bit or even using a straight edge
to check.

ALSO... if you're not perfectly square to the table, meaning there will
be a slight angle to the pattern bit, you can end up cutting into the
plywood surface. DAMHIKT. :-)

You can also guard against this by raising your bit *only* high enough
to cut the solid wood and not the plywood. It's tricky, but I've gotten
pretty good and fast at it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/26/2013 8:50 PM, Amy Guarino wrote:
On Mar 26, 6:35 pm, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/26/2013 2:14 PM, Greg Guarino wrote: On 3/25/2013 8:55 AM, woodchucker wrote:
Just meant to show that cauls can be simple and also used for other
things.

So enlighten me here. I've seen cauls (pictures of them anyway) that
have a very slight curve on the surface that will touch the work. Your
picture has a much sharper curve at each end than I would have expected,
and I can't tell if the middle is curved or not.

My understanding is that the curve on the business edge is to provide
clamping pressure in the middle even though the clamps are only applied
to the ends. What is the pronounced curvature near the ends of your
cauls for?

Different caulse for different purposes.

I can bend these puppies very well, all the way flat. That's why they
taper so much.

Yes the middle gets a lot of pressure. There is a slight flat in the
middle, I started with a smooth radius. They were too thick in the
middle. As I played with them, I got them so that I can use most or all
of the caul. I have cauls that are less pronounced, but these are my
favorite. They haven't split, and do many different tasks. They are
super light, they work well on dovetails since they will imprint a
little. They don't mar.

My maple cauls are heavy less radiused.. lift about 1/8 from center to
end .

One of the great things about making things is being willing to
experiment. When the cost is not high try it. Try different things.
Sometimes what you hear is not always true. Sometimes there is good
reason that everyone does it one way. Cauls can be totally flat and just
spread the clamping pressure out. I chose to try something that would
fit many uses. As you can see, I use it for my dovetailing. I started
using it the opposite way, but it required a lot more turning of the
clamps. turning it over required less (why because of the large crown
that you asked about). But in an instant i can turn it over and squeeze
the living snot out of that board and have it so rigid I could drive a
chisel into the end if I wanted to.

So much for my book on a little question.
_So what stain did you use on your Shelves.. I like it and want the same._

--
Jeff

Funny thing, that. I experimented with various combinations of MinWax
(Wood Finish) stains and came up with a small sample that I liked.
Then I tried to recreate it in a larger batch. Needless to say, it
never came out quite the same. I came up with a pretty decent mix, but
in the end decided to go with Gunstock, right out of the can. This is
partly because I knew I'd be able to recreate it anytime. I left it on
for just about the maximum recommended time before wiping.

I'm pleased with the results, although I'm not sure the combination of
my camera, a mix of fluorescent and incandescent lights and the
monitor on your computer adds up to faithful reproduction.

Thanks, was that a gel or oil based solvent stain?


--
Jeff

On Mar 27, 6:33*pm, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/26/2013 8:50 PM, Amy Guarino wrote:







On Mar 26, 6:35 pm, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/26/2013 2:14 PM, Greg Guarino wrote: On 3/25/2013 8:55 AM, woodchucker wrote:
Just meant to show that cauls can be simple and also used for other
things.

So enlighten me here. I've seen cauls (pictures of them anyway) that
have a very slight curve on the surface that will touch the work. Your
picture has a much sharper curve at each end than I would have expected,
and I can't tell if the middle is curved or not.

My understanding is that the curve on the business edge is to provide
clamping pressure in the middle even though the clamps are only applied
to the ends. What is the pronounced curvature near the ends of your
cauls for?

Different caulse for different purposes.

I can bend these puppies very well, all the way flat. That's why they
taper so much.

Yes the middle gets a lot of pressure. There is a slight flat in the
middle, I started with a smooth radius. They were too thick in the
middle. As I played with them, I got them so that I can use most or all
of the caul. *I have cauls that are less pronounced, but these are my
favorite. They haven't split, and do many different tasks. They are
super light, they work well on dovetails since they will imprint a
little. *They don't mar.

My maple cauls are heavy less radiused.. lift about 1/8 from center to
end .

One of the great things about making things is being willing to
experiment. When the cost is not high try it. Try different things.
Sometimes what you hear is not always true. Sometimes there is good
reason that everyone does it one way. Cauls can be totally flat and just
spread the clamping pressure out. I chose to try something that would
fit many uses. As you can see, I use it for my dovetailing. I started
using it the opposite way, but it required a lot more turning of the
clamps. turning it over required less (why because of the large crown
that you asked about). But in an instant i can turn it over and squeeze
the living snot out of that board and have it so rigid I could drive a
chisel into the end if I wanted to.

So much for my book on a little question.
_So what stain did you use on your Shelves.. I like it and want the same._

--
Jeff

Funny thing, that. I experimented with various combinations of MinWax
(Wood Finish) stains and came up with a small sample that I liked.
Then I tried to recreate it in a larger batch. Needless to say, it
never came out quite the same. I came up with a pretty decent mix, but
in the end decided to go with Gunstock, right out of the can. This is
partly because I knew I'd be able to recreate it anytime. I left it on
for just about the maximum recommended time before wiping.

I'm pleased with the results, although I'm not sure the combination of
my camera, a mix of fluorescent and incandescent lights and the
monitor on your computer adds up to faithful reproduction.

Thanks, was that a gel or oil based solvent stain?

--
Jeff

Oil based.

http://www.flooranddecoroutlets.com/s51417956.html

On 3/27/2013 8:21 PM, Amy Guarino wrote:

--
Jeff

Oil based.

Thanks I like that Gunstock... never worked with it.
A friend that is moving just unloaded all of his stains on me.. I'll
have to see if there's any in there.


I added a few more pics to show how much I can bend these cauls.
I can get them flat, but with different clamps . Not enough travel with
those.

http://imgur.com/a/wLzRs#0

A woodworker can never have too many clamps, or enough clamp helpers.

They are quick to make, can be changed easily with a handplane.
you can cut v notches if you had to hold a bunch of dowels...
Cauls can be anything flat, round to hold staves for a barrel. etc..
They can save you when you run out of clamps.
I have over 200 clamps, but sometimes that is not enough, not the right
kind or enough of the right length. These can help get you through.

I also have what I call squaring corners. Another type of caul that has
facets on it. I can pull an out of square box into square and hold it
while the glue sets. It also pulls the joint tight.
Not like the wire spring clamps, but these do the trick.

--
Jeff

-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/27/13 1:48 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote:

I gave up spending the time and effort to even try to make them
flush when gluing and setting up. Now I simply make install them a
bit proud on purpose and then trim them flush with a pattern bit in
the router.
------------------------------------------ Be carefull.

I've used this technique and had a bit that cleaned up the wood but
also left cutter marks on the plywood.

After that ran test cuts with a different bit.

No problems.

Lew


You are correct, not all bits are the same. I prefer a to start with
a quality bit that is more likely to have an exact match between the
cutter and the bearing.

This isn't to say that a cheap bit will be off, but testing on some
scrap is recommended. We talking thou's here, so it's not something
you can see by looking at the edge of the bit or even using a
straight edge to check.

ALSO... if you're not perfectly square to the table, meaning there
will be a slight angle to the pattern bit, you can end up cutting
into the plywood surface. DAMHIKT. :-)

You can also guard against this by raising your bit *only* high enough
to cut the solid wood and not the plywood. It's tricky, but I've
gotten pretty good and fast at it.

For those less experienced, one can also leave a sliver of wood which is
then easily removed with a chisel. Or file.

It can also be done other ways; by hand, eg. I've also done it with planer
blades in a molding head on a radial arm saw.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Mar 28, 5:29*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/27/13 1:48 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote:

I gave up spending the time and effort to even try to make them
flush when gluing and setting up. *Now I simply make install them a
bit proud on purpose and then trim them flush with a pattern bit in
the router.
------------------------------------------ Be carefull.

I've used this technique and had a bit that cleaned up the wood but
also left cutter marks on the plywood.

After that ran test cuts with a different bit.

No problems.

Lew

You are correct, not all bits are the same. *I prefer a to start with
a quality bit that is more likely to have an exact match between the
cutter and the bearing.

This isn't to say that a cheap bit will be off, but testing on some
scrap is recommended. *We talking thou's here, so it's not something
you can see by looking at the edge of the bit or even using a
straight edge to check.

ALSO... if you're not perfectly square to the table, meaning there
will be a slight angle to the pattern bit, you can end up cutting
into the plywood surface. *DAMHIKT. * :-)

You can also guard against this by raising your bit *only* high enough
to cut the solid wood and not the plywood. *It's tricky, but I've
gotten pretty good and fast at it.

For those less experienced, one can also leave a sliver of wood which is
then easily removed with a chisel. *Or file.

It can also be done other ways; by hand, eg. *I've also done it with planer
blades in a molding head on a radial arm saw.

I used a rabbet plane to trim down the solid oak edging around a
desktop I made. The picture quality is lacking, but these photos
illustrate the concept:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7874/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7691/lightbox/

It was easy to set the plane's fence to cut only the edging. I think I
may even have set the depth stop to be flush with the bottom of the
plane iron at first, but I may have been afraid it would leave
scratches; I don't see it in the pictures I took.

On 3/27/2013 9:42 PM, woodchucker wrote:
I added a few more pics to show how much I can bend these cauls.
I can get them flat, but with different clamps . Not enough travel with
those.

http://imgur.com/a/wLzRs#0

A woodworker can never have too many clamps, or enough clamp helpers.

Thanks for the added pictures. That was very helpful of you.

How did you determine the curvature for the long cauls, trial and error?
Cauls like that could have simplified my bookcase glue-up, and I have 3
more to do. I also might not have bought 8 of The World's Cheapest Bar
Clamps (tm). They were of some use - I put them on last to fill in
between other clamps - but I have half a mind to cut six inches off
them. They are 24" long, but it's hard to imagine them being of any use
at that length. They bowed quite "gracefully" at the 13" or so I had
them open.

I like your corner cauls too, but I wonder if a curve on the outside
corner might be an improvement over the "flat". With anything other than
a square box, the clamp will only contact one corner of your cauls
anyway. With a slight curve, the clamp could make the same amount of
contact, but more "centered" (or so it seems to my untutored eye).

On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 10:20:34 -0400, Greg Guarino wrote:


How did you determine the curvature for the long cauls, trial and error?

I can tell you what I did. I set a hand plane to take off a fairly thin
shaving, but not a see-through. Leaving about 10% of the middle of the
caul flat, I took one or two passes out to each end, then moved out about
1/3 of the planed distance and did it again. A final pass or two over
the last 1/3 and a couple of short swipes to round the transitions and I
was done.

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

On 3/28/2013 10:20 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/27/2013 9:42 PM, woodchucker wrote:
I added a few more pics to show how much I can bend these cauls.
I can get them flat, but with different clamps . Not enough travel with
those.

http://imgur.com/a/wLzRs#0

A woodworker can never have too many clamps, or enough clamp helpers.

Thanks for the added pictures. That was very helpful of you.

How did you determine the curvature for the long cauls, trial and error?
Cauls like that could have simplified my bookcase glue-up, and I have 3
more to do. I also might not have bought 8 of The World's Cheapest Bar
Clamps (tm). They were of some use - I put them on last to fill in
between other clamps - but I have half a mind to cut six inches off
them. They are 24" long, but it's hard to imagine them being of any use
at that length. They bowed quite "gracefully" at the 13" or so I had
them open.

I like your corner cauls too, but I wonder if a curve on the outside
corner might be an improvement over the "flat". With anything other than
a square box, the clamp will only contact one corner of your cauls
anyway. With a slight curve, the clamp could make the same amount of
contact, but more "centered" (or so it seems to my untutored eye).
Yep you are right a curve would improve it.
I was thinking the same thing.
They are easy to make, 2x4's make excellent corners.

As far as the curve, it's trial and error, you want the pressure to keep
from picking up in the middle.
When you have too much flat, you will see the middle rise and not offer
pressure. Then you have to think, did I tighten the clamps too much, or
are the cauls just defective. Me I'd rather put more pressure on, and
have full contact in the contact area. Then if I Put less pressure on, I
have a smaller contact area (edges recede). But I never want to have
alot of pressure and a void in the middle.... just play with it.
it's cheap wood and you can use them for something else if they don't
come out right.

--
Jeff

On Mar 25, 6:35*pm, "Mr. SmartyPants"
wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote :



I have two questions:

Do I need three clamps for each rail, as shown in the photos? Or would
two (plus the clamps at the ends of the rails) be enough? The units
are 21" wide.

regardless of the project size I always use 36 8' 3/4" pipe bar clamps.


Mostly jewelry boxes then?

On 3/28/2013 7:06 PM, woodchucker wrote:
As far as the curve, it's trial and error, you want the pressure to keep
from picking up in the middle.

I just remembered something. I was putting an edge around a desktop a
couple of years ago, back before I had all of my current woodworking
savvy. The desktop is pretty large; 72" by 30" if memory serves. I
had not yet discovered pocket screws (along with many other useful
techniques). I decided to use glue, dowels and clamps.

I had only two clamps long enough for the long dimension. Adding to the
problem, the piece of oak 1x2 I used for one end piece was bowed a bit.
When I applied the two clamps I still had a small gap in the middle. I
decided to take another piece of 1x2 oak and put it in as a "caul", a
word and concept I had not yet heard of.

I have a reasonably intuitive grasp of physics, but somehow it didn't
occur to me to put the "caul" on edge for greater rigidity. Or to use
something thicker. In the heat of the (glue drying) moment, I grabbed
for the first thing at hand.

The thin pseudo-caul helped a little, but there still wasn't enough
pressure in the middle. I grabbed a small piece of very thin plywood,
maybe 3/16", and inserted it between my "caul" and the middle section of
the edging. Then I cranked down the clamps tight, bending the "caul".
That did it.

I didn't occur to me until now that I had in effect made a crude
"stepped" version of your curved caul; a piece that protruded more in
the middle than at the ends.

I have since been advised that there were any number of better and
easier ways to accomplish the whole task, but it's funny that I ended up
reinventing the wheel to solve a problem in a time-sensitive moment.

On 3/23/2013 11:19 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I find that the more simpleminded the question, the more likely people
here will argue about it. This should be interesting.
....

Do I need three clamps for each rail, as shown in the photos? Or would
two (plus the clamps at the ends of the rails) be enough? The units
are 21" wide.
....

None. Shoot some brads to "hold it in place while the glue dries..."

GDR

--

Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/28/2013 7:06 PM, woodchucker wrote:
As far as the curve, it's trial and error, you want the pressure to
keep from picking up in the middle.

I just remembered something. I was putting an edge around a desktop a
couple of years ago, back before I had all of my current woodworking
savvy. The desktop is pretty large; 72" by 30" if memory serves. I
had not yet discovered pocket screws (along with many other useful
techniques). I decided to use glue, dowels and clamps.

I had only two clamps long enough for the long dimension.

With a pipe coupling and a piece of threaded pipe you can make your pipe
clamps any length you want.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 3/29/2013 1:33 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/28/2013 7:06 PM, woodchucker wrote:
As far as the curve, it's trial and error, you want the pressure to
keep from picking up in the middle.

I just remembered something. I was putting an edge around a desktop a
couple of years ago, back before I had all of my current woodworking
savvy. The desktop is pretty large; 72" by 30" if memory serves. I
had not yet discovered pocket screws (along with many other useful
techniques). I decided to use glue, dowels and clamps.

I had only two clamps long enough for the long dimension.

With a pipe coupling and a piece of threaded pipe you can make your pipe
clamps any length you want.

Yup. Some of the ones I used were of exactly that sort. And I might have
gone out for another length of pipe and a coupler, had I not already
applied the glue.

Lew Hodgett wrote:

The biggest PITA of the whole process is making sure the wood is
flush with the plywood after assembly, IMHO.

-------------------------------------------------------
"-MIKE-" wrote:

I gave up spending the time and effort to even try to make them
flush
when gluing and setting up. Now I simply make install them a bit
proud
on purpose and then trim them flush with a pattern bit in the
router.
--------------------------------------------------------------
The "Tongue and Groove" technique minimizes this problem.

Start by measuring the thickness of the plywood using a dial caliper.

Plane the wood equal to the thickness of the plywood + 0.020".

Center cut the "tongue" and "groove" cuts on the respective parts.

Glue the assembly together.

The result will be a joint that leaves the solid wood 0,010" proud
on both top and bottom surfaces, well within the scope of a scraper
for final finish.

The scraper can easily be positioned to clear the plywood surface.

Just another way to skin a cat,

Lew

On 3/31/13 3:06 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

The biggest PITA of the whole process is making sure the wood is
flush with the plywood after assembly, IMHO.

-------------------------------------------------------
"-MIKE-" wrote:

I gave up spending the time and effort to even try to make them
flush
when gluing and setting up. Now I simply make install them a bit
proud
on purpose and then trim them flush with a pattern bit in the
router.
--------------------------------------------------------------
The "Tongue and Groove" technique minimizes this problem.

Start by measuring the thickness of the plywood using a dial caliper.

Plane the wood equal to the thickness of the plywood + 0.020".

Center cut the "tongue" and "groove" cuts on the respective parts.

Glue the assembly together.

The result will be a joint that leaves the solid wood 0,010" proud
on both top and bottom surfaces, well within the scope of a scraper
for final finish.

The scraper can easily be positioned to clear the plywood surface.

Just another way to skin a cat,

Lew


It is another way and I realize the strength of that joint. But by the
time I measure and cut the tongue and grooves with the set-up involved,
I can have them glued on and trimmed with the flush bit. (glue drying
time being subtracted from both equations.)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply