Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer. Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry

On 3/8/2013 10:10 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer. Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Download and install this, bring back the start menu and more, many ways
to tweak it to your liking.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 3/8/2013 10:23 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 3/8/2013 10:10 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First
impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS
when the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple
things, like moving a file from one folder to another, require one to
use Explorer. Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop.
There are two interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda
mimics the familiar XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I
could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be
returned to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Download and install this, bring back the start menu and more, many ways
to tweak it to your liking.

Whoops, forgot the link, here it is:

http://www.classicshell.net/

Totally safe, using for a couple months now.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:10:54 -0800, Gramp's shop wrote:

Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First
impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when
the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like
moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer.
Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two
interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar
XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I
could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned
to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry


This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.

Paul

Gramp's shop wrote:
Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer. Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry

I appreciate your sharing your experience as I have been looking at
laptops. Windows7 is superior to the new one, huh? Does yours have a
touch screen?

Bill

On 3/8/2013 9:51 PM, PHT wrote:
On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:10:54 -0800, Gramp's shop wrote:

Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First
impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when
the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like
moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer.
Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two
interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar
XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I
could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned
to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry


This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.

Paul

Which is unfortunately far behind as a consumer product...

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 03/08/2013 09:27 PM, Richard wrote:
On 3/8/2013 9:51 PM, PHT wrote:
On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:10:54 -0800, Gramp's shop wrote:

Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First
impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS
when
the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things,
like
moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer.
Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two
interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar
XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I
could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be
returned
to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry


This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.

Paul

Which is unfortunately far behind as a consumer product...

What is your latest experience and with linux and what distribution
are you basing this on?

As a "user" rather than a "consumer", I have had a very good
experience with linux for the last 18 years.

Can you run SketchUp on it?

On 03/08/2013 09:27 PM, Richard wrote:
On 3/8/2013 9:51 PM, PHT wrote:
On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:10:54 -0800, Gramp's shop wrote:

Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First
impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when
the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like
moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer.
Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two
interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar
XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I
could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned
to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry


This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.

Paul

Which is unfortunately far behind as a consumer product...

What is your latest experience and with linux and what distribution are
you basing this on?

As a "user" rather than a "consumer", I have had a very good experience
with linux for the last 18 years.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

I have a friend that is the head IT engineer for a school system
here. We get together and test out bourbons and smoke cigars and
talk things over in general.

He assured me at our last outing that I needed to buy myself a copy of
Windows 7 and put it aside for later use. He snarled and bristled for
a half hour about all the things that were wrong with Win 8, and
assured me it was as bad as the change to Vista from XP, and probably
even worse.

According to his opinion, 8 was designed to be compatible with the
Windows Phone and its upcoming OS, not for desktops or laptops.

Yet another misfire from the good folks at Microsoft.

Robert

Bill ...

I bought a Lenovo with 4gb ram and a 500gb HD. $350 from Best Buy. No touch screen. Like the computer but (H)8 Windows 8.

Lrry

"PHT" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:10:54 -0800, Gramp's shop wrote:

Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First
impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when
the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like
moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer.
Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two
interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar
XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I
could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned
to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry


This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.
================================================== =================
Here that all the time. Go Linux. Go Mac. Compatibility is a problem. Stick
with Windows if you need to communicate with most of the world.

Gramp's shop wrote:
Bill ...

I bought a Lenovo with 4gb ram and a 500gb HD. $350 from Best Buy. No touch screen. Like the computer but (H)8 Windows 8.

Lrry
It sounds like you did real well! I was mainly looking for something to
attach to a big screen tv, so I have been looking at those with HD,
1080P (1920x1080)--matching the TV. Most (all?) of the candidates seem
to have "4000HD" (integrated) graphics. Has anyone tried streaming video
from web pages this way with success in the way of video quality? I
have a hunch it will be hit and miss. I doubt Roy Underhill's show is
recorded (at PBS) in HD, for instance, but I'm assuming a laptop as
described would give the best possible configuration. I'll be sure to
try to avoid Windows8until I hear kinder words said about it! I was
mildly enthusiastic aboutthe touchscreen concept, but now I think I'll
sit on thesideline and hear more what those on the front line have to
report.

Bill

On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 01:26:22 -0500, Bill
It sounds like you did real well! I was mainly looking for something to
attach to a big screen tv, so I have been looking at those with HD,
1080P (1920x1080)--matching the TV.

http://www.amazon.com/High-Quality-B...ds=hdmi+to+usb

Dave wrote:
On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 01:26:22 -0500, Bill
It sounds like you did real well! I was mainly looking for something to
attach to a big screen tv, so I have been looking at those with HD,
1080P (1920x1080)--matching the TV.
http://www.amazon.com/High-Quality-B...ds=hdmi+to+usb

Thank you. I have this one on my Amazon "wish list":
http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-H...I289UCEVO10GOX

Bill wrote:

Can you run SketchUp on it?

Yes.

As chance would have it I installed Sketchup 8 (free version) just
yesterday on my 64 bit laptop running Ubuntu 12.10. I can't say
that I put it through all its paces as of yet but I've yet to find
anything that is broken with it.

You do have to run it under Wine (a windows compatibility layer), so
performance probably takes a hit, but its OK for my simple needs.

A tiny bit of Linux knowledge is needed (how to do things in a terminal
window, for example) to install it.

For what it's worth, I was also successful in getting emachineshop to run
as well as Google Earth.



--
Frank Stutzman

On 3/8/2013 10:10 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer. Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry



Visit:

alt.comp.os.windows-8

for the inevitable questions about this strange and wonderful O_0 new M$
offering. They are clearly catering to the can't be bothered to orally
communicate (or even look where they are going) smart phone crowd.

There are a number of add-ons to make it act like Win7, but if you came
from XP, woe to you! Abandon all hope as you are now a neophyte all over
again. If you choose door #1 and go for one of the add-ons you may also
need to visit:

alt.windows7.general

Good luck and have fun!

John

This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.

Paul

Which is unfortunately far behind as a consumer product...

What is your latest experience and with linux and what distribution are
you basing this on?

As a "user" rather than a "consumer", I have had a very good experience
with linux for the last 18 years.


I use Opensuse. I have been using Suse for something like 20 years. I have
have never had problems that I have seen about Windows. Linux does
have a program that will run Windows programs.

Paul

Gramp's shop wrote:

Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First
impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when
the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like
moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer.
Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two
interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar XP
version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I
could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned
to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry


Which is one of the primary reasons I run Linux (PCLinuxOS to be exact).
The other reason is the simple fact that it is totally free AND I can check
ou the OS before I install it.

Deb

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 23:21:04 -0500, Bill
wrote:



I appreciate your sharing your experience as I have been looking at
laptops. Windows7 is superior to the new one, huh? Does yours have a
touch screen?

Bill

The only reason to buy W8 is if you have a touch screen. Right now
your best bet is to find a unit sitting on the shelf with W7. I got
an email from Acer yesterday and they still have a couple to sell in
their clearance page.

On 3/9/2013 12:05 AM, CW wrote:


"PHT" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:10:54 -0800, Gramp's shop wrote:

Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First
impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when
the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like
moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer.
Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two
interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar
XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I
could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned
to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry


This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.
================================================== =================
Here that all the time. Go Linux. Go Mac. Compatibility is a problem.
Stick with Windows if you need to communicate with most of the world.


The good, the bad, and some ugly...
http://www.winehq.org/docs/wineusr-g...nfig-wine-main

I think it has come a long way, but still required considerable
knowledge and patience to install and run.

Maybe some day?

PHT wrote:

This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.

Not for everyone .... AAMOF, no longer even for one of the most famous
famous Linux users, proponents, and programmers alive, Miguel de Icaza.

LMAO when I read this last week:

http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2013/Mar-05.html


--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)

Bill wrote:
Gramp's shop wrote:
Bill ...

I bought a Lenovo with 4gb ram and a 500gb HD. $350 from Best Buy. No
touch screen. Like the computer but (H)8 Windows 8.

Lrry
It sounds like you did real well! I was mainly looking for something to
attach to a big screen tv, so I have been looking at those with HD, 1080P
(1920x1080)--matching the TV. Most (all?) of the candidates seem to have
"4000HD" (integrated) graphics. Has anyone tried streaming video from web
pages this way with success in the way of video quality? I have a hunch
it will be hit and miss. I doubt Roy Underhill's show is recorded (at
PBS) in HD, for instance, but I'm assuming a laptop as described would
give the best possible configuration. I'll be sure to try to avoid
Windows8until I hear kinder words said about it! I was mildly
enthusiastic aboutthe touchscreen concept, but now I think I'll sit on
thesideline and hear more what those on the front line have to report.

Bill

Don't believe all the naysayers about the underlying OS itself, as
technically it is one of MSFT's best operating systems yet, very resource
efficient, fast and relatively more secure than any MSFT consumer OS to
date (notice the word "relatively", no such thing as a totally secure OS,
just one that hasn't been targeted).

It is the GUI that throws everyone, and that can be infuriating because it
is such a drastic sea change and humans simply don't like change. I'm not a
big fan of the Win8 GUI myself, but having run it on a seven year old
laptop since it came out I find myself getting used to it, and appreciating
most parts of it.

Short story - because you are human you will NOT like it at first because
of the GUI, but you will like the benefits of the underlying technical
aspects, so try it for an extended period and see if the angst doesn't
become more tempered than not ... and do keep in mind it is a first
iteration, and you do have the option to use the classic desktop.

And yes, it does run Sketchup, handily.

As far as your media center:

Get a Raspberry Pi for $40 and load up xbmc:

http://lifehacker.com/5929913/build-...5-raspberry-pi

--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)

On 3/9/2013 8:29 AM, Swingman wrote:
Bill wrote:
Gramp's shop wrote:
Bill ...

I bought a Lenovo with 4gb ram and a 500gb HD. $350 from Best Buy. No
touch screen. Like the computer but (H)8 Windows 8.

Lrry
It sounds like you did real well! I was mainly looking for something to
attach to a big screen tv, so I have been looking at those with HD, 1080P
(1920x1080)--matching the TV. Most (all?) of the candidates seem to have
"4000HD" (integrated) graphics. Has anyone tried streaming video from web
pages this way with success in the way of video quality? I have a hunch
it will be hit and miss. I doubt Roy Underhill's show is recorded (at
PBS) in HD, for instance, but I'm assuming a laptop as described would
give the best possible configuration. I'll be sure to try to avoid
Windows8until I hear kinder words said about it! I was mildly
enthusiastic aboutthe touchscreen concept, but now I think I'll sit on
thesideline and hear more what those on the front line have to report.

Bill

Don't believe all the naysayers about the underlying OS itself, as
technically it is one of MSFT's best operating systems yet, very resource
efficient, fast and relatively more secure than any MSFT consumer OS to
date (notice the word "relatively", no such thing as a totally secure OS,
just one that hasn't been targeted).

It is the GUI that throws everyone, and that can be infuriating because it
is such a drastic sea change and humans simply don't like change. I'm not a
big fan of the Win8 GUI myself, but having run it on a seven year old
laptop since it came out I find myself getting used to it, and appreciating
most parts of it.

Short story - because you are human you will NOT like it at first because
of the GUI, but you will like the benefits of the underlying technical
aspects, so try it for an extended period and see if the angst doesn't
become more tempered than not ... and do keep in mind it is a first
iteration, and you do have the option to use the classic desktop.

And yes, it does run Sketchup, handily.

As far as your media center:

Get a Raspberry Pi for $40 and load up xbmc:

http://lifehacker.com/5929913/build-...5-raspberry-pi



My objection is to the touch interface. On anything of any size, the
motion of the hands and fingers on the touch screen will create a whole
new set of syndroms. The act of hold your arms outward for any lenght
of time is going to create stress in the upper arm shoulder areas. To
move the to the exteme for the point imaging use 70" screen with a touch
screen.

"Any size" is any thing that one would use for spreadsheets, accounting,
word processing, or presentation programs. Serious user will not be
running these programs on a 4X6 screen.

For those people alread with movement problems, the extra arm movement
will be impossible.

Personnally my screen has not icons. All of my programs are accessed
from the tool bar at the bottom of the screen.

The screen is for my photographs that I use as wall paper. I don't like
the idea of having the screen covered with large icons that prevent
seeing the background.

On 3/9/2013 7:43 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 3/9/2013 8:29 AM, Swingman wrote:
Bill wrote:
Gramp's shop wrote:
Bill ...

I bought a Lenovo with 4gb ram and a 500gb HD. $350 from Best Buy. No
touch screen. Like the computer but (H)8 Windows 8.

Lrry
It sounds like you did real well! I was mainly looking for something to
attach to a big screen tv, so I have been looking at those with HD,
1080P
(1920x1080)--matching the TV. Most (all?) of the candidates seem to have
"4000HD" (integrated) graphics. Has anyone tried streaming video from
web
pages this way with success in the way of video quality? I have a hunch
it will be hit and miss. I doubt Roy Underhill's show is recorded (at
PBS) in HD, for instance, but I'm assuming a laptop as described would
give the best possible configuration. I'll be sure to try to avoid
Windows8until I hear kinder words said about it! I was mildly
enthusiastic aboutthe touchscreen concept, but now I think I'll sit on
thesideline and hear more what those on the front line have to
report.

Bill

Don't believe all the naysayers about the underlying OS itself, as
technically it is one of MSFT's best operating systems yet, very resource
efficient, fast and relatively more secure than any MSFT consumer OS to
date (notice the word "relatively", no such thing as a totally secure OS,
just one that hasn't been targeted).

It is the GUI that throws everyone, and that can be infuriating
because it
is such a drastic sea change and humans simply don't like change. I'm
not a
big fan of the Win8 GUI myself, but having run it on a seven year old
laptop since it came out I find myself getting used to it, and
appreciating
most parts of it.

Short story - because you are human you will NOT like it at first because
of the GUI, but you will like the benefits of the underlying technical
aspects, so try it for an extended period and see if the angst doesn't
become more tempered than not ... and do keep in mind it is a first
iteration, and you do have the option to use the classic desktop.

And yes, it does run Sketchup, handily.

As far as your media center:

Get a Raspberry Pi for $40 and load up xbmc:

http://lifehacker.com/5929913/build-...5-raspberry-pi




My objection is to the touch interface. On anything of any size, the
motion of the hands and fingers on the touch screen will create a whole
new set of syndroms. The act of hold your arms outward for any lenght
of time is going to create stress in the upper arm shoulder areas. To
move the to the exteme for the point imaging use 70" screen with a touch
screen.

That is not the way things are headed, and a good argument can be made
that the necessity to "hold your arms outward" is fast becoming a thing
of the past, AND _particularly because of the advent of technology very
similar to the Win8 GUI!_

"Any size" is any thing that one would use for spreadsheets, accounting,
word processing, or presentation programs. Serious user will not be
running these programs on a 4X6 screen.

For those people alread with movement problems, the extra arm movement
will be impossible.

Personnally my screen has not icons. All of my programs are accessed
from the tool bar at the bottom of the screen.

The screen is for my photographs that I use as wall paper. I don't like
the idea of having the screen covered with large icons that prevent
seeing the background.

You are with most folks ... and I actually agree with you to a large
extent with regard to the Win8 GUI.

But, lets look forward to the future big picture, particularly in the
context of historical human behavior/interaction with "content"
presented by advances in technology (the quill pen, paper, the Gutenburg
press, computers, et al).

Until the last 30 years, most of human reading and writing as been done
on a horizontal surface, with a book or paper on a desk top.

It has only been in the last 50 years that the switch to a predominant
vertical display has been present in human interaction with
technological advances in the display of content ... basically since the
advent of the computer, movie screens, etc.

There is no doubt that the vertical display (computer monitor) excels in
the area of "presentation" of content, but not necessarily in the world
of "design" and other similar workplace tasks, particularly with regard
to "collaboration"in those areas.

Fast forward to the current cutting edge of technology where there have
been many studies relating to the benefits of horizontal displays
(displays built into the desktop itself), particularly in enterprise
situations where collaboration is most often a necessity.

Now, take a look again at Win8 and tell me where MSFT is betting the
future of computing is headed (the traditional PC, as we have known it
for 30 years, is fading fast, witness declining sales and prices),
particularly with regard to a more traditional human form of computer
interaction.

Enter tablets, mobile devices, and _horizontal displays in the
workplace environment_.

IOW, it all depends on how you look at it. LOL

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ahci/2012/137686/

What's ironic is that the one's screaming the loudest about the Win8
glimpse of the future, the Enterprise (their IT departments, mostly),
will most likely be the biggest beneficiaries over time.

Human's just don't like their damn cheese being moved ... G

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 03/08/2013 10:19 PM, Bill wrote:
Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 03/08/2013 09:27 PM, Richard wrote:
On 3/8/2013 9:51 PM, PHT wrote:



This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.

Paul

Which is unfortunately far behind as a consumer product...

What is your latest experience and with linux and what distribution
are you basing this on?

As a "user" rather than a "consumer", I have had a very good
experience with linux for the last 18 years.

Can you run SketchUp on it?


One way to have the best of both Windows and Linux is to install vmware
player on windows and install linux as a virtual machine. This works
well with the large amounts of RAM and drive space on newer machines and
linux as a vm will perform almost as well as running natively. You can
do the same in reverse by running linux natively with windows as a a vm.



--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

Gramp's shop wrote:
Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First
impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS
when the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple
things, like moving a file from one folder to another, require one to
use Explorer. Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop.
There are two interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda
mimics the familiar XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of
junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that
I could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be
returned to my employer come retirement date (May 3).


The "junk" is not from Microsoft. It was installed by the laptop
manufacturer to make a few bucks. Fortunately, it's easy to get rid of.

Download and run "PC Decrapifier," and handy program that will walk you
through removing unwanted stuff.

Available he
http://pcdecrapifier.com/

For crap not on Decrapifier's list, you should also have in your toolkit
"Revo Uninstaller."

On 3/8/2013 8:10 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer. Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry

About a year ago I started thinking it was time to replace my old laptop
(Windows XP). I kept hearing negatives about the upcoming Win 8
(programming for 42 years gives me access to all sorts of goodie info),
so back in September I picked up an HP laptop with Win 7 on it. I feel
for those who are now having to deal with Win 8.

Matt

On 3/8/2013 9:10 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer. Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry



You might consider this program to make the transition easier and more
like home.

http://stardock.com/products/start8/

On 3/9/2013 7:43 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 3/9/2013 8:29 AM, Swingman wrote:
Bill wrote:
Gramp's shop wrote:
Bill ...

I bought a Lenovo with 4gb ram and a 500gb HD. $350 from Best Buy. No
touch screen. Like the computer but (H)8 Windows 8.

Lrry
It sounds like you did real well! I was mainly looking for something to
attach to a big screen tv, so I have been looking at those with HD,
1080P
(1920x1080)--matching the TV. Most (all?) of the candidates seem to have
"4000HD" (integrated) graphics. Has anyone tried streaming video from
web
pages this way with success in the way of video quality? I have a hunch
it will be hit and miss. I doubt Roy Underhill's show is recorded (at
PBS) in HD, for instance, but I'm assuming a laptop as described would
give the best possible configuration. I'll be sure to try to avoid
Windows8until I hear kinder words said about it! I was mildly
enthusiastic aboutthe touchscreen concept, but now I think I'll sit on
thesideline and hear more what those on the front line have to
report.

Bill

Don't believe all the naysayers about the underlying OS itself, as
technically it is one of MSFT's best operating systems yet, very resource
efficient, fast and relatively more secure than any MSFT consumer OS to
date (notice the word "relatively", no such thing as a totally secure OS,
just one that hasn't been targeted).

It is the GUI that throws everyone, and that can be infuriating
because it
is such a drastic sea change and humans simply don't like change. I'm
not a
big fan of the Win8 GUI myself, but having run it on a seven year old
laptop since it came out I find myself getting used to it, and
appreciating
most parts of it.

Short story - because you are human you will NOT like it at first because
of the GUI, but you will like the benefits of the underlying technical
aspects, so try it for an extended period and see if the angst doesn't
become more tempered than not ... and do keep in mind it is a first
iteration, and you do have the option to use the classic desktop.

And yes, it does run Sketchup, handily.

As far as your media center:

Get a Raspberry Pi for $40 and load up xbmc:

http://lifehacker.com/5929913/build-...5-raspberry-pi




My objection is to the touch interface. On anything of any size, the
motion of the hands and fingers on the touch screen will create a whole
new set of syndroms. The act of hold your arms outward for any lenght
of time is going to create stress in the upper arm shoulder areas. To
move the to the exteme for the point imaging use 70" screen with a touch
screen.


I had not even thought of that. My big objection has always been the
finger prints on the screen, something that is a constant situation with
my iPad and iPhone.

In article ,
PHT wrote:
On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:10:54 -0800, Gramp's shop wrote:

Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First
impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when
the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like
moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer.
Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two
interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar
XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I
could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned
to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry


This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.

Paul


Phooey on the new Gnome shell, Unity, and the other alleged "improvements"
to linux desktops, too.
--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

On 03/09/2013 11:02 AM, Larry W wrote:
In article ,
PHT wrote:
On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:10:54 -0800, Gramp's shop wrote:

Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First
impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when
the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like
moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer.
Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two
interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar
XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I
could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned
to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry


This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.

Paul


Phooey on the new Gnome shell, Unity, and the other alleged "improvements"
to linux desktops, too.


If you don't like those desktops, take a look through this:

http://www.nixtutor.com/ubuntu/20-ubuntu-derivatives-you-should-know-about/


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 3/8/2013 10:10 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First impression: they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when the A-team was out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like moving a file from one folder to another, require one to use Explorer. Even "my computer" no longer resides on the desktop. There are two interfaces -- the tiles version and one that kinda mimics the familiar XP version. The former is loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I could spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned to my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry

An office mate just returned his new Win 8 laptop, and paid more to get
a Win 7 machine. He said it was the worst piece of Garbage he has seen
for a laptop. It is really geared for tablets, but I am hearing from
others it's not as good as the IPAD.

As far as Win7 I was lucky enough to buy my laptop before win8 came out.
It's ok, some nice features. I miss the shortcuts of hitting start and
typing a letter and firing off my program, now it brings up a search of
all programs that start with that letter. The problem is it requires you
to mouse rather than hit return.
Many of the keyboard shortcuts are gone. Idiots at work.

--
Jeff

On 3/9/2013 7:29 AM, Swingman wrote:
wrote:

This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.

Not for everyone .... AAMOF, no longer even for one of the most famous
famous Linux users, proponents, and programmers alive, Miguel de Icaza.

LMAO when I read this last week:

http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2013/Mar-05.html


Oh man! But yes, that's exactly how I feel about it too.

On 3/9/2013 12:41 PM, woodchucker wrote:

Idiots at work.

We've purposely raised a generation of them and now they're doing the
designing and development ... you reap what you sow.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 03:51:21 +0000, PHT wrote:

This sounds like a very good time to dump the windows OS and install
Linux. A far better OS.

Windows 8 is aimed at the hand-held market, not the desktop. MS has
apparently decided that's a dying market. Ubuntu, the most popular Linux
distribution, has decided to go the same way. That may also include Mint
and Kubuntu, which are Ubuntu derivatives, but I don't have that info.

I'm still running Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (April 2010 Long Term Support) and
will for a while. But I've already started looking for an alternative.
I may even skip Linux entirely and go with BSD (Berkeley Unix) - or maybe
back to Slackware which is what I started Linux with long ago.

It's also possible to run Ubuntu (or any other release) with one of many
window managers, each of which has a different look and feel. But that
may be more than a newbie is willing to handle.

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 22:05:23 -0800, CW wrote:

Compatibility is a problem. Stick
with Windows if you need to communicate with most of the world.

And on what do you base that? I have no problem with email, news groups,
Web sites, Office documents, spreadsheets, databases, or presentations.

I could see your problem if you're mainly a CAD user. While several free
CAD programs are available for Linux, none of them, IMNSHO, are as good
as TurboCad. I drop into Windows XP for that. But if I wasn't so lazy,
I'd install WINE (Windows emulator) and run TurboCad in Linux

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

Matt wrote in
eb.com:

About a year ago I started thinking it was time to replace my old
laptop (Windows XP). I kept hearing negatives about the upcoming Win
8 (programming for 42 years gives me access to all sorts of goodie
info), so back in September I picked up an HP laptop with Win 7 on it.
I feel for those who are now having to deal with Win 8.

Matt


I haven't played with Windows 8 much, so the jury's still out as far as
I'm concerned. However, I'm not liking what I see. Windows 7 got most
of the Desktop UI right, and actually set the bar very high for the next
version of Windows. (I'd like to go into the office of the guy who turned
autosort on all the time and start rearranging his stuff automatically.
Grab the pencil right out of his hand, too.)

What I don't understand is Windows RT. They put that on the cheap
version of the Surface tablet and waited almost 4 months to release the
full version. What good is Windows if you can't run Windows programs?

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

" wrote:
I have a friend that is the head IT engineer for a school system
here. We get together and test out bourbons and smoke cigars and
talk things over in general.

He assured me at our last outing that I needed to buy myself a copy of
Windows 7 and put it aside for later use. He snarled and bristled for
a half hour about all the things that were wrong with Win 8, and
assured me it was as bad as the change to Vista from XP, and probably
even worse.

According to his opinion, 8 was designed to be compatible with the
Windows Phone and its upcoming OS, not for desktops or laptops.

Yet another misfire from the good folks at Microsoft.

Gotta disagree on this one ... IT folks are the most change resistant bunch
on the planet, bar none, and have to be dragged kicking and screaming to
anything new that upsets their current technical infrastructure.

I'm willing to bet with anyone that the next decade sees more "Win8 type"
UI in Enterprise computing than most can currently imagine. Might not be a
MSFT OS, but it will certainly be a similar iteration GUI, and it will not
be readily accepted by IT, just as tablets and iPhones were not welcomed by
IT just three years ago.

But, and it's a big but ... We gotta go through the FUD cycle first, just
as was done with Vista's UAC component, which caused most of the teeth
gnashing.

--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)

Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

What I don't understand is Windows RT. They put that on the cheap
version of the Surface tablet and waited almost 4 months to release the
full version. What good is Windows if you can't run Windows programs?

No one understands that ... that was a stupid move on Ballmer's part, and
you can't fix stupid.

--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)

"Gramp's shop" wrote in message
...

Brought home a new laptop today with Windows 8 installed. First impression:
they let a few nutjobs take over the design of this OS when the A-team was
out to lunch. Nothing is intuitive. Simple things, like moving a file from
one folder to another, require one to use Explorer. Even "my computer" no
longer resides on the desktop. There are two interfaces -- the tiles
version and one that kinda mimics the familiar XP version. The former is
loaded with a lot of junk.

It's going to take me hours to get this machine set up -- hours that I could
spend more enjoyably in the shop.

BTW, this is being written on my old machine, which needs to be returned to
my employer come retirement date (May 3).

Larry


After considerable work, and the addition of a couple third-party utilities,
I've got my Windows 8 system running so that it's almost indistinguishable
from the Windows 7 system that preceded it. As a software developer, I find
the Win8 UI completely useless. It's not unusual for me to be flipping among
six or eight different applications that are all running at the same time
and spread across two monitors. Win8's one-application-at-a-time
orientation, with nothing but full-screen windows and maybe a sliver of
another at the side of the screen, just doesn't work for me.

The key to the conversion was a start menu replacement called Start8 from
Stardock (http://www.stardock.com/), for a big $4.99. I restored my sidebar
gadget environment with another called 8GadgetPack
(http://8gadgetpack.bplaced.net/). The Start8 software has many options that
let you avoid the Windows 8 UI experience, including booting directly into
the desktop. There are other start menu replacements available, perhaps even
for free, but Stardock's been in this business a long time, and Start8 is a
smooth piece of software.

There's a variety of other tweaks that completed the setup. Google or Bing
for Windows 8 tweaks or Windows 8 tips and you'll see a bunch of things you
can do to avoid the parts of Windows 8 that you don't like.

Yeah, I know, it's a lot of work that you shouldn't have to do - that was
the point of your post - but it can be done and the result is at least as
good as the OS you were running before.

Tom