I posted a picture of the squirrelcage motor in my homemade "air filtration
system" with 18x24" filters. The motor has started to make a high pitched
squeeking noise, and the center circular pieces in the picture (bearings?)
are getting hot. Is there any way to lubricate, or salvage the motor, or
do I need to get a new (used?) motor? This thing has had many, many hours
on it, since I use it too to circulate the air in the basement. So I owe
it gratitude, but can afford another motor. OTOH, if it can be saved
somehow, that would be good. But I don't want it to catch fire!!!

Any advice is appreciated!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han wrote:
I posted a picture of the squirrelcage motor in my homemade "air
filtration system" with 18x24" filters. The motor has started to
make a high pitched squeeking noise, and the center circular pieces
in the picture (bearings?) are getting hot. Is there any way to
lubricate, or salvage the motor, or do I need to get a new (used?)
motor? This thing has had many, many hours on it, since I use it too
to circulate the air in the basement. So I owe it gratitude, but can
afford another motor. OTOH, if it can be saved somehow, that would
be good. But I don't want it to catch fire!!!

Any advice is appreciated!

Most likely the bearings Han. They are most likely replaceable for small
dollars. Pull the motor, remove the bearings and let your fingers do the
walking to find a local supplier. Take one down with you to get the right
replacement. You can try to lube them with a little oil, but chances are
that won't be a very long lived fix.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

Han wrote:
I posted a picture of the squirrelcage motor in my homemade "air
filtration system" with 18x24" filters. The motor has started to
make a high pitched squeeking noise, and the center circular pieces
in the picture (bearings?) are getting hot. Is there any way to
lubricate, or salvage the motor, or do I need to get a new (used?)
motor? This thing has had many, many hours on it, since I use it too
to circulate the air in the basement. So I owe it gratitude, but can
afford another motor. OTOH, if it can be saved somehow, that would
be good. But I don't want it to catch fire!!!

Any advice is appreciated!

Most likely the bearings Han. They are most likely replaceable for
small dollars. Pull the motor, remove the bearings and let your
fingers do the walking to find a local supplier. Take one down with
you to get the right replacement. You can try to lube them with a
little oil, but chances are that won't be a very long lived fix.

Thanks, Mike!!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

Han wrote:
I posted a picture of the squirrelcage motor in my homemade "air
filtration system" with 18x24" filters. The motor has started to
make a high pitched squeeking noise, and the center circular pieces
in the picture (bearings?) are getting hot. Is there any way to
lubricate, or salvage the motor, or do I need to get a new (used?)
motor? This thing has had many, many hours on it, since I use it
too to circulate the air in the basement. So I owe it gratitude,
but can afford another motor. OTOH, if it can be saved somehow,
that would be good. But I don't want it to catch fire!!!

Any advice is appreciated!

Most likely the bearings Han. They are most likely replaceable for
small dollars. Pull the motor, remove the bearings and let your
fingers do the walking to find a local supplier. Take one down with
you to get the right replacement. You can try to lube them with a
little oil, but chances are that won't be a very long lived fix.

Thanks, Mike!!

No problem Han. This is a very common fix. Having looked at your picture
over on the binaries group, it will be an easy job. Just remove the nuts
from the end cap screws (they are long screws that go the length of the
motor), and carefully pull it apart. The bearings should knock out with a
dowel or the likes, from the inside. Likewise, insert the new ones from the
outside, just being careful to seat them as squarely as you can before
beating them in. It'll all be good for probably under $20 - even in NJ!

--

-Mike-

"Han" wrote

I posted a picture of the squirrelcage motor in my homemade "air
filtration
system" with 18x24" filters. The motor has started to make a high
pitched
squeeking noise, and the center circular pieces in the picture
(bearings?)
are getting hot. Is there any way to lubricate, or salvage the
motor, or
do I need to get a new (used?) motor? This thing has had many, many
hours
on it, since I use it too to circulate the air in the basement. So
I owe
it gratitude, but can afford another motor. OTOH, if it can be
saved
somehow, that would be good. But I don't want it to catch fire!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------
Get an aerosol can of light grade oil (3-N-1, sewing machine, etc)
along with the plastic straw that serves as an extension.

See if you can feed the straw in past the motor housing(s) so you can
squirt some oil on the bearing(s).

Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't, it's a crap shoot.

If not, get a new motor from WW Grainger.

Lew

Han wrote:
I posted a picture of the squirrelcage motor in my homemade "air filtration
system" with 18x24" filters. The motor has started to make a high pitched
squeeking noise, and the center circular pieces in the picture (bearings?)
are getting hot. Is there any way to lubricate, or salvage the motor, or
do I need to get a new (used?) motor? This thing has had many, many hours
on it, since I use it too to circulate the air in the basement. So I owe
it gratitude, but can afford another motor. OTOH, if it can be saved
somehow, that would be good. But I don't want it to catch fire!!!

Any advice is appreciated!

I got mine from a local AC company. You might get a replacement
motor (used) very cheap this way. If you are ever down in Georgia I
have a spare unit you can have.

--
G.W. Ross

Any wire cut to length will be too short.

Lew Hodgett wrote:


If not, get a new motor from WW Grainger.


A new motor is a lot more expensive than new bearings Lew. Especially from
Grainger.

--

-Mike-

On 9/26/2012 4:28 PM, Han wrote:
I posted a picture of the squirrelcage motor in my homemade "air filtration
system" with 18x24" filters. The motor has started to make a high pitched
squeeking noise, and the center circular pieces in the picture (bearings?)
are getting hot. Is there any way to lubricate, or salvage the motor, or
do I need to get a new (used?) motor? This thing has had many, many hours
on it, since I use it too to circulate the air in the basement. So I owe
it gratitude, but can afford another motor. OTOH, if it can be saved
somehow, that would be good. But I don't want it to catch fire!!!

Any advice is appreciated!


'
Suggest double checking that the fan is attached securely. Items that
do not have a firm grip can make lots of different noises.

In article , Mike Marlow
wrote:

Lew Hodgett wrote:


If not, get a new motor from WW Grainger.


A new motor is a lot more expensive than new bearings Lew. Especially from
Grainger.

A used furnace fan can be had cheap or free... The one in my shop is 12
years out of a 30 YO furnace, and still runs fine. It was free.

--
I used to like fishing because I thought it had some larger significance. Now I
like fishing because it¹s the one thing I can think of that probably doesn¹t. *
John Gierach

Lew Hodgett wrote:


If not, get a new motor from WW Grainger.
==================================
"Mike Marlow" wrote:

A new motor is a lot more expensive than new bearings Lew.
Especially from Grainger.
======================================
If price is controlling issue, **** can the whole shebang and buy
a 20" box fan at end of season price of about $10 from a big box
store and get a beer.

Lew

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 9/26/2012 4:28 PM, Han wrote:
I posted a picture of the squirrelcage motor in my homemade "air
filtration system" with 18x24" filters. The motor has started to
make a high pitched squeeking noise, and the center circular pieces
in the picture (bearings?) are getting hot. Is there any way to
lubricate, or salvage the motor, or do I need to get a new (used?)
motor? This thing has had many, many hours on it, since I use it too
to circulate the air in the basement. So I owe it gratitude, but can
afford another motor. OTOH, if it can be saved somehow, that would
be good. But I don't want it to catch fire!!!

Any advice is appreciated!


'
Suggest double checking that the fan is attached securely. Items that
do not have a firm grip can make lots of different noises.

Thanks, Leon and all others! I will do this tomorrow.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:


If not, get a new motor from WW Grainger.
==================================
"Mike Marlow" wrote:

A new motor is a lot more expensive than new bearings Lew.
Especially from Grainger.
======================================
If price is controlling issue, **** can the whole shebang and buy
a 20" box fan at end of season price of about $10 from a big box
store and get a beer.


No one said it was the controlling issue. It's just a factor. Don't see
why you don't consider replacing bearings to be a suitable address of the
problem. They are meant to be replaced, after all...

--

-Mike-

Lew Hodgett wrote:

If price is controlling issue, **** can the whole shebang and buy
a 20" box fan at end of season price of about $10 from a big box
store and get a beer.


"Mike Marlow" wrote:
==========================

No one said it was the controlling issue. It's just a factor.
Don't see why you don't consider replacing bearings to be a suitable
address of the problem. They are meant to be replaced, after all...
---------------------------------------------
If they are sleeve bearings, NBD.

If they are ball bearings, you really need an arbor press to avoid
brinelling
the bearings during installation.

$10 for a box fan is a far more simple solution.

Lew

Take it to a motor repair shop. They have the presses, bearings and do
this professionally.

-----
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
eb.com...



Lew Hodgett wrote:

If price is controlling issue, **** can the whole shebang and buy
a 20" box fan at end of season price of about $10 from a big box
store and get a beer.


"Mike Marlow" wrote:
==========================

No one said it was the controlling issue. It's just a factor. Don't
see why you don't consider replacing bearings to be a suitable
address of the problem. They are meant to be replaced, after all...
---------------------------------------------
If they are sleeve bearings, NBD.

If they are ball bearings, you really need an arbor press to avoid
brinelling
the bearings during installation.

$10 for a box fan is a far more simple solution.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

If price is controlling issue, **** can the whole shebang and buy
a 20" box fan at end of season price of about $10 from a big box
store and get a beer.


"Mike Marlow" wrote:
==========================

No one said it was the controlling issue. It's just a factor.
Don't see why you don't consider replacing bearings to be a suitable
address of the problem. They are meant to be replaced, after all...
---------------------------------------------
If they are sleeve bearings, NBD.

If they are ball bearings, you really need an arbor press to avoid
brinelling
the bearings during installation.

$10 for a box fan is a far more simple solution.


Can you really get anything from Grainger for $10? As for the bearings -
they are very easy to press in with a hammer with no problems. Many of us
have done that kind of thing for decades, with no problems. I'm not talking
about simply mashing them in - but it is not rocket science to seat a
bearing.

--

-Mike-

On 9/26/2012 8:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:


If not, get a new motor from WW Grainger.
==================================
"Mike Marlow" wrote:

A new motor is a lot more expensive than new bearings Lew.
Especially from Grainger.
======================================
If price is controlling issue, **** can the whole shebang and buy
a 20" box fan at end of season price of about $10 from a big box
store and get a beer.


No one said it was the controlling issue. It's just a factor. Don't see
why you don't consider replacing bearings to be a suitable address of the
problem. They are meant to be replaced, after all...


Not only that, there's the satisfaction that comes from, Hey! I fixed it.

m II wrote:
Take it to a motor repair shop. They have the presses, bearings and do
this professionally.


That is indeed an option, but too many bearings have been seated manually
for this to be necessary. It's not rocket science to seat a bearing. Maybe
some of the people that post here should have actually have done some of the
work they talk about before they talk...

--

-Mike-

Max wrote in
b.com:

On 9/26/2012 8:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:


If not, get a new motor from WW Grainger.
==================================
"Mike Marlow" wrote:

A new motor is a lot more expensive than new bearings Lew.
Especially from Grainger.
======================================
If price is controlling issue, **** can the whole shebang and buy
a 20" box fan at end of season price of about $10 from a big box
store and get a beer.


No one said it was the controlling issue. It's just a factor. Don't
see why you don't consider replacing bearings to be a suitable
address of the problem. They are meant to be replaced, after all...


Not only that, there's the satisfaction that comes from, Hey! I fixed
it.

OP here ...
That is indeed the thing, satisfaction of fixing a problem.

NOTE: I had found a "plan" for an aircleaner on the web, just a box with
a squirrelcage fan in it and a way to hold furnace-type filters in place
(2 filters 18x24" on each side of the box). I bought the motor off ebay
in 2004. It was surprisingly big ...

I have run the motor at times consinuously for days or weeks. I got my
money's worth.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han wrote:
Max wrote in

Not only that, there's the satisfaction that comes from, Hey! I fixed
it.

OP here ...
That is indeed the thing, satisfaction of fixing a problem.


Go for it Han. There is indeed, great satisfaction in fixing things. Not
to mention that there is absolutely no reason to throw away so much of what
gets thrown away today. A sad statement all by itself. As for taking
things to a shop - sometimes that is indeed the right approach so I won't
speak ill of that idea, but there is so much more that each of us are
capable of, if we will simply put our hand to it. We cannot let the spirit
of being independent and being capable of doing for ourselves die.

--

-Mike-

In article , Mike Marlow
wrote:

Han wrote:
Max wrote in

Not only that, there's the satisfaction that comes from, Hey! I fixed
it.

OP here ...
That is indeed the thing, satisfaction of fixing a problem.


Go for it Han. There is indeed, great satisfaction in fixing things. Not
to mention that there is absolutely no reason to throw away so much of what
gets thrown away today. A sad statement all by itself. As for taking
things to a shop - sometimes that is indeed the right approach so I won't
speak ill of that idea, but there is so much more that each of us are
capable of, if we will simply put our hand to it. We cannot let the spirit
of being independent and being capable of doing for ourselves die.

Hear, hear!

From
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_b...was-framed.htm
l

Curiosity was framed
Avoid it at your peril. The cat's not even sick. (HT to C. J. Cherryh)
If you don't know how it works, find out.
If you're not sure if it will work, try it. If it doesn't make sense,
play with it until it does.
If it's not broken, break it.
If it might not be true, find out.
And most of all, if someone says it is none of your business, prove
them wrong.

djb

--
I used to like fishing because I thought it had some larger significance. Now I
like fishing because it¹s the one thing I can think of that probably doesn¹t. *
John Gierach

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

If price is controlling issue, **** can the whole shebang and buy
a 20" box fan at end of season price of about $10 from a big box
store and get a beer.


"Mike Marlow" wrote:
==========================

No one said it was the controlling issue. It's just a factor.
Don't see why you don't consider replacing bearings to be a suitable
address of the problem. They are meant to be replaced, after all...
---------------------------------------------
If they are sleeve bearings, NBD.

If they are ball bearings, you really need an arbor press to avoid
brinelling
the bearings during installation.

$10 for a box fan is a far more simple solution.


Can you really get anything from Grainger for $10? As for the bearings -
they are very easy to press in with a hammer with no problems. Many of us
have done that kind of thing for decades, with no problems. I'm not
talking about simply mashing them in - but it is not rocket science to
seat a bearing.

--

-Mike-



But, if a hammer seems too crude, you can make a cheap press at the hardware
store.
Buy two short ones of these, one that's a little larger than the outer
flange of the bearing, one that maches the outer flange:
http://www.wdtrade.com/tradeimage/1036/361217.jpg
Buy a piece of this that is the largest size that will fit through the
bearing:
http://www.oltonwelding.com/images/MVC-5162X.JPG
Buy a couple of nuts and washers that fit the all-thread.
To remove the old bearing, fit the big nipple over the bearing, slide the
all-thread through, put on nuts and washers, tighten nuts.
To install the new bearing, put the big nipple against the hole that the
bearing will go in, slide the all-thread through, slide the bearing and the
small nipple on, put on nuts and washers, tighten nuts. Get a satisfied
feeling when the bearing seats.
Kerry

"Han" wrote in message ...

I posted a picture of the squirrelcage motor in my homemade "air filtration
system" with 18x24" filters. The motor has started to make a high pitched
squeeking noise, and the center circular pieces in the picture (bearings?)
are getting hot. Is there any way to lubricate, or salvage the motor, or
do I need to get a new (used?) motor? This thing has had many, many hours
on it, since I use it too to circulate the air in the basement. So I owe
it gratitude, but can afford another motor. OTOH, if it can be saved
somehow, that would be good. But I don't want it to catch fire!!!

Any advice is appreciated!

--
Han,

I've never seen a bad bearing in these small motors cause a fire, but I
suppose it is possible. The usual risk from hot bearings is thermal
breakdown of insulators within the motor windings and wires, possible
causing a electrical hazard.

If the bearings races or ball are pitted (not that you can see them without
destroying the the bearing set), replacing the bearings is a very good
solution for that type of motor. They will be ball bearing sets, not
sleeve bearings. When you get the replacements try to get the "ZZ" type
which have both sides sealed, as your device is apparently used in a dusty
environment.

Sometimes you get lucky and the bearings stay on the rotor which makes them
easier to remove using a bearing puller. A bearing press is handy for
reinstallation but I've also used a heavy drill press (off) with makeshift
jig. Brinelling is a risk when approaching these with a hammer, especially
if the fit is tight.

Light machine oil was suggested for a temporary fix, and it indeed can
prolong the life of the bearings considerably if they've simply dried out,
if you can get the oil into the bearing set casing. However, there is a
popular canned spray that should be avoided, marketed as a "lubricant" and
is often touted as the fix-all for everything. However, around sealed,
greased bearings, the stuff is a nightmare since it is a powerful degreaser,
which liquifies the packed grease. It's name begins with WD - don't fall for
the hype.

Check for loose mounting as suggested since the cage is fairly lightweight
and would squeak if given the chance.

(The opinions and suggestion expressed above are my own and do not reflect
current enginieering or electrical standards in any way.)
Scott in Dunedin, FL

Han wrote in
:

Max wrote in
b.com:

Not only that, there's the satisfaction that comes from, Hey! I fixed
it.

OP here ...
That is indeed the thing, satisfaction of fixing a problem.

NOTE: I had found a "plan" for an aircleaner on the web, just a box
with a squirrelcage fan in it and a way to hold furnace-type filters
in place (2 filters 18x24" on each side of the box). I bought the
motor off ebay in 2004. It was surprisingly big ...

I have run the motor at times consinuously for days or weeks. I got
my money's worth.


I've been known to replace things, then go about attempting to fix the
original. This lets me work at my own pace and be quite a bit more
daring than I would if I needed the item. Sometimes it works, other
times I wind up doing a post-mortem.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"anon" wrote in
ng.com:

Han,

I've never seen a bad bearing in these small motors cause a fire, but
I suppose it is possible. The usual risk from hot bearings is thermal
breakdown of insulators within the motor windings and wires, possible
causing a electrical hazard.

If the bearings races or ball are pitted (not that you can see them
without destroying the the bearing set), replacing the bearings is a
very good solution for that type of motor. They will be ball bearing
sets, not sleeve bearings. When you get the replacements try to get
the "ZZ" type which have both sides sealed, as your device is
apparently used in a dusty environment.

Sometimes you get lucky and the bearings stay on the rotor which makes
them easier to remove using a bearing puller. A bearing press is
handy for reinstallation but I've also used a heavy drill press (off)
with makeshift jig. Brinelling is a risk when approaching these with
a hammer, especially if the fit is tight.

Light machine oil was suggested for a temporary fix, and it indeed can
prolong the life of the bearings considerably if they've simply dried
out, if you can get the oil into the bearing set casing. However,
there is a popular canned spray that should be avoided, marketed as a
"lubricant" and is often touted as the fix-all for everything.
However, around sealed, greased bearings, the stuff is a nightmare
since it is a powerful degreaser, which liquifies the packed grease.
It's name begins with WD - don't fall for the hype.

Check for loose mounting as suggested since the cage is fairly
lightweight and would squeak if given the chance.

(The opinions and suggestion expressed above are my own and do not
reflect current enginieering or electrical standards in any way.)
Scott in Dunedin, FL

This is very close to a post-mortem, as predicted by Puckdropper.

I took things apart. This is a 7.7 Amp motor for 1050 rpm. It was
rather solidly mounted, so that wasn't the problem.

It was an interesting experience. There was 1 loose long bolt that
attached a grounding wire between outer housing and motor itself. If
there ever was a nut on the other side it is now lost. I can't get the
bearing covers (?) off unless I go out and buy something. So I am going
to ask a plumber friend whether he might know of a squirrelcage fan and
motor that is looking for a new home. Otherwise, I may just go and get
another one on eBay.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in news:5064a47a$0$22900
:

Han wrote in
:

Max wrote in
b.com:

Not only that, there's the satisfaction that comes from, Hey! I fixed
it.

OP here ...
That is indeed the thing, satisfaction of fixing a problem.

NOTE: I had found a "plan" for an aircleaner on the web, just a box
with a squirrelcage fan in it and a way to hold furnace-type filters
in place (2 filters 18x24" on each side of the box). I bought the
motor off ebay in 2004. It was surprisingly big ...

I have run the motor at times consinuously for days or weeks. I got
my money's worth.


I've been known to replace things, then go about attempting to fix the
original. This lets me work at my own pace and be quite a bit more
daring than I would if I needed the item. Sometimes it works, other
times I wind up doing a post-mortem.

Puckdropper

This is close to a postmortem. I took things apart until I had the motor
free from its brackets and housing. Now I have no idea of how to get at
the bearings, other than by going out and getting some gadget to pull the
bearings off. More useless details in my answer to anon.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han wrote in
:


This is close to a postmortem. I took things apart until I had the
motor free from its brackets and housing. Now I have no idea of how
to get at the bearings, other than by going out and getting some
gadget to pull the bearings off. More useless details in my answer to
anon.


They do make bearing pullers, but you may not need to buy one. Some of
the auto parts stores (like Autozone) will "lend" you a tool. It might
be worth stopping in and asking.

Last time I took a motor apart, the bearings were firmly attached to the
shaft and while there was a housing at either end, it didn't take much
effort to free the bearings from them. (After the bolts that held the
motor together snapped off, I didn't bother trying to pull the bearings.
It was quickly turning in to a project that's more trouble than it's
worth.)

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"Han" wrote in message ...

"anon" wrote in
ng.com:

Han,

I've never seen a bad bearing in these small motors cause a fire, but
I suppose it is possible. The usual risk from hot bearings is thermal
breakdown of insulators within the motor windings and wires, possible
causing a electrical hazard.

If the bearings races or ball are pitted (not that you can see them
without destroying the the bearing set), replacing the bearings is a
very good solution for that type of motor. They will be ball bearing
sets, not sleeve bearings. When you get the replacements try to get
the "ZZ" type which have both sides sealed, as your device is
apparently used in a dusty environment.

Sometimes you get lucky and the bearings stay on the rotor which makes
them easier to remove using a bearing puller. A bearing press is
handy for reinstallation but I've also used a heavy drill press (off)
with makeshift jig. Brinelling is a risk when approaching these with
a hammer, especially if the fit is tight.

Light machine oil was suggested for a temporary fix, and it indeed can
prolong the life of the bearings considerably if they've simply dried
out, if you can get the oil into the bearing set casing. However,
there is a popular canned spray that should be avoided, marketed as a
"lubricant" and is often touted as the fix-all for everything.
However, around sealed, greased bearings, the stuff is a nightmare
since it is a powerful degreaser, which liquifies the packed grease.
It's name begins with WD - don't fall for the hype.

Check for loose mounting as suggested since the cage is fairly
lightweight and would squeak if given the chance.

(The opinions and suggestion expressed above are my own and do not
reflect current enginieering or electrical standards in any way.)
Scott in Dunedin, FL

This is very close to a post-mortem, as predicted by Puckdropper.

I took things apart. This is a 7.7 Amp motor for 1050 rpm. It was
rather solidly mounted, so that wasn't the problem.

It was an interesting experience. There was 1 loose long bolt that
attached a grounding wire between outer housing and motor itself. If
there ever was a nut on the other side it is now lost. I can't get the
bearing covers (?) off unless I go out and buy something. So I am going
to ask a plumber friend whether he might know of a squirrelcage fan and
motor that is looking for a new home. Otherwise, I may just go and get
another one on eBay.

-
Han,

It sounds as if the bearings are tightly pressed onto the rotor and into the
end caps, preventing you from separating the motor. A seated bearing set
will only move if pressure is applied evenly and straight along shaft
direction. Prying with one screwdriver is futile; you would need at least
two large screwdrivers applied at the same time directly across from each
other, torquing in opposite directions. Even this is doubtful to work on
the tough nuts to crack.

Sometimes I'll use the weight of the stator to my advantage, being very
careful to protect the shaft, and raise the motor assy and strike (gently at
first) the shaft end of the rotor (traveling in a straight line with the
shaft) onto the (carpetted) bench until the weight of the stator drives the
front end cap off of the bearing (or the front bearing off the shaft).
Unfortunately removing the rear end cap is more difficult without the mass
of the stator to help and the end caps tend to be a brittle cast metal that
dont like repeated banging.

Regarding the nutless screw, if one of the adjoining screws were at all
loose, one of the end caps could have skewed slightly, binding the bearing
up, creating increased friction, higher heat, etc.. If the motor could be
hand turned, find a nut to fit the bolt, tighten it all up making sure the
end caps seat tightly and evenly into the stator frame. Having all of the
screws tight may make the difference.

(The opinions and suggestion expressed above are my own and do not
reflect current enginieering or electrical standards in any way.)

Scott in Dunedin FL

"anon" wrote in
ng.com:

"Han" wrote in message
...

"anon" wrote in
ng.com:

Han,

I've never seen a bad bearing in these small motors cause a fire, but
I suppose it is possible. The usual risk from hot bearings is
thermal breakdown of insulators within the motor windings and wires,
possible causing a electrical hazard.

If the bearings races or ball are pitted (not that you can see them
without destroying the the bearing set), replacing the bearings is a
very good solution for that type of motor. They will be ball
bearing sets, not sleeve bearings. When you get the replacements try
to get the "ZZ" type which have both sides sealed, as your device is
apparently used in a dusty environment.

Sometimes you get lucky and the bearings stay on the rotor which
makes them easier to remove using a bearing puller. A bearing press
is handy for reinstallation but I've also used a heavy drill press
(off) with makeshift jig. Brinelling is a risk when approaching
these with a hammer, especially if the fit is tight.

Light machine oil was suggested for a temporary fix, and it indeed
can prolong the life of the bearings considerably if they've simply
dried out, if you can get the oil into the bearing set casing.
However, there is a popular canned spray that should be avoided,
marketed as a "lubricant" and is often touted as the fix-all for
everything. However, around sealed, greased bearings, the stuff is a
nightmare since it is a powerful degreaser, which liquifies the
packed grease. It's name begins with WD - don't fall for the hype.

Check for loose mounting as suggested since the cage is fairly
lightweight and would squeak if given the chance.

(The opinions and suggestion expressed above are my own and do not
reflect current enginieering or electrical standards in any way.)
Scott in Dunedin, FL

This is very close to a post-mortem, as predicted by Puckdropper.

I took things apart. This is a 7.7 Amp motor for 1050 rpm. It was
rather solidly mounted, so that wasn't the problem.

It was an interesting experience. There was 1 loose long bolt that
attached a grounding wire between outer housing and motor itself. If
there ever was a nut on the other side it is now lost. I can't get
the bearing covers (?) off unless I go out and buy something. So I am
going to ask a plumber friend whether he might know of a squirrelcage
fan and motor that is looking for a new home. Otherwise, I may just
go and get another one on eBay.

-
Han,

It sounds as if the bearings are tightly pressed onto the rotor and
into the end caps, preventing you from separating the motor. A seated
bearing set will only move if pressure is applied evenly and straight
along shaft direction. Prying with one screwdriver is futile; you
would need at least two large screwdrivers applied at the same time
directly across from each other, torquing in opposite directions.
Even this is doubtful to work on the tough nuts to crack.

Sometimes I'll use the weight of the stator to my advantage, being
very careful to protect the shaft, and raise the motor assy and strike
(gently at first) the shaft end of the rotor (traveling in a straight
line with the shaft) onto the (carpetted) bench until the weight of
the stator drives the front end cap off of the bearing (or the front
bearing off the shaft). Unfortunately removing the rear end cap is
more difficult without the mass of the stator to help and the end caps
tend to be a brittle cast metal that dont like repeated banging.

Regarding the nutless screw, if one of the adjoining screws were at
all loose, one of the end caps could have skewed slightly, binding the
bearing up, creating increased friction, higher heat, etc.. If the
motor could be hand turned, find a nut to fit the bolt, tighten it all
up making sure the end caps seat tightly and evenly into the stator
frame. Having all of the screws tight may make the difference.

(The opinions and suggestion expressed above are my own and do not
reflect current enginieering or electrical standards in any way.)

Scott in Dunedin FL

Thanks, Scott, but I have indeed given up on this thing. Chalk one up
for experience and in favor of the disposable society. I wonder what the
town's recycling division is going to do with it ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 23:19:26 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

m II wrote:
Take it to a motor repair shop. They have the presses, bearings and do
this professionally.


That is indeed an option, but too many bearings have been seated manually
for this to be necessary. It's not rocket science to seat a bearing. Maybe
some of the people that post here should have actually have done some of the
work they talk about before they talk...

I've installed many a bearing tapping it on with the right size
socket. I'm with you on this.

Mike M

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 19:29:57 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:



Lew Hodgett wrote:

If price is controlling issue, **** can the whole shebang and buy
a 20" box fan at end of season price of about $10 from a big box
store and get a beer.


"Mike Marlow" wrote:
==========================

No one said it was the controlling issue. It's just a factor.
Don't see why you don't consider replacing bearings to be a suitable
address of the problem. They are meant to be replaced, after all...
---------------------------------------------
If they are sleeve bearings, NBD.

If they are ball bearings, you really need an arbor press to avoid
brinelling
the bearings during installation.

Man, it's obvious you have not dome many repairs! You knock ball
bearings in by driving them on the OUTER race. Usually using a
suitably sized socket and a medium hammer. Care is required, of coarse
- but the chance of contributing to brunelling of the bearing are
excedingly remote. Bearing drivers are made and available at a
reasonable price for purists and tool junkies - and are the standard
recommended method of "driving" most automotive ball and roller
bearings, from alternators to transmissions.

$10 for a box fan is a far more simple solution.

Lew

On 27 Sep 2012 21:28:25 GMT, Han wrote:

"anon" wrote in
ing.com:

"Han" wrote in message
...

"anon" wrote in
ng.com:

Han,

I've never seen a bad bearing in these small motors cause a fire, but
I suppose it is possible. The usual risk from hot bearings is
thermal breakdown of insulators within the motor windings and wires,
possible causing a electrical hazard.

If the bearings races or ball are pitted (not that you can see them
without destroying the the bearing set), replacing the bearings is a
very good solution for that type of motor. They will be ball
bearing sets, not sleeve bearings. When you get the replacements try
to get the "ZZ" type which have both sides sealed, as your device is
apparently used in a dusty environment.

Sometimes you get lucky and the bearings stay on the rotor which
makes them easier to remove using a bearing puller. A bearing press
is handy for reinstallation but I've also used a heavy drill press
(off) with makeshift jig. Brinelling is a risk when approaching
these with a hammer, especially if the fit is tight.

Light machine oil was suggested for a temporary fix, and it indeed
can prolong the life of the bearings considerably if they've simply
dried out, if you can get the oil into the bearing set casing.
However, there is a popular canned spray that should be avoided,
marketed as a "lubricant" and is often touted as the fix-all for
everything. However, around sealed, greased bearings, the stuff is a
nightmare since it is a powerful degreaser, which liquifies the
packed grease. It's name begins with WD - don't fall for the hype.

Check for loose mounting as suggested since the cage is fairly
lightweight and would squeak if given the chance.

(The opinions and suggestion expressed above are my own and do not
reflect current enginieering or electrical standards in any way.)
Scott in Dunedin, FL

This is very close to a post-mortem, as predicted by Puckdropper.

I took things apart. This is a 7.7 Amp motor for 1050 rpm. It was
rather solidly mounted, so that wasn't the problem.

It was an interesting experience. There was 1 loose long bolt that
attached a grounding wire between outer housing and motor itself. If
there ever was a nut on the other side it is now lost. I can't get
the bearing covers (?) off unless I go out and buy something. So I am
going to ask a plumber friend whether he might know of a squirrelcage
fan and motor that is looking for a new home. Otherwise, I may just
go and get another one on eBay.

-
Han,

It sounds as if the bearings are tightly pressed onto the rotor and
into the end caps, preventing you from separating the motor. A seated
bearing set will only move if pressure is applied evenly and straight
along shaft direction. Prying with one screwdriver is futile; you
would need at least two large screwdrivers applied at the same time
directly across from each other, torquing in opposite directions.
Even this is doubtful to work on the tough nuts to crack.

Sometimes I'll use the weight of the stator to my advantage, being
very careful to protect the shaft, and raise the motor assy and strike
(gently at first) the shaft end of the rotor (traveling in a straight
line with the shaft) onto the (carpetted) bench until the weight of
the stator drives the front end cap off of the bearing (or the front
bearing off the shaft). Unfortunately removing the rear end cap is
more difficult without the mass of the stator to help and the end caps
tend to be a brittle cast metal that dont like repeated banging.

Regarding the nutless screw, if one of the adjoining screws were at
all loose, one of the end caps could have skewed slightly, binding the
bearing up, creating increased friction, higher heat, etc.. If the
motor could be hand turned, find a nut to fit the bolt, tighten it all
up making sure the end caps seat tightly and evenly into the stator
frame. Having all of the screws tight may make the difference.

(The opinions and suggestion expressed above are my own and do not
reflect current enginieering or electrical standards in any way.)

Scott in Dunedin FL

Thanks, Scott, but I have indeed given up on this thing. Chalk one up
for experience and in favor of the disposable society. I wonder what the
town's recycling division is going to do with it ...

I received an entire furnace gratis for the asking. Some day, I'll
use the included squirrel-cage fan to blow/filter the shop air.
To save the HVAC companies trouble, they often give the old units
away, even when they're complete and working.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 17:16:25 -0700, Mike M
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 23:19:26 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

m II wrote:
Take it to a motor repair shop. They have the presses, bearings and do
this professionally.


That is indeed an option, but too many bearings have been seated manually
for this to be necessary. It's not rocket science to seat a bearing. Maybe
some of the people that post here should have actually have done some of the
work they talk about before they talk...

I've installed many a bearing tapping it on with the right size
socket. I'm with you on this.

Ditto. 1/2" drive sockets usually had large enough orifices to handle
small shafts, and an old collapsible steering shaft tube worked to
hammer the socket down over the shaft, for armature-mounted bearings
and such.

I also cut old bearing races with my die cutter and a cutoff disc so I
could use it to tap in the new races. Tap the old one out, cut a slot
with the cutter, cool, and wire-brush the edges off. I think I have a
dozen of those in various sizes in my old mechanic's toolbox.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

wrote:


Man, it's obvious you have not dome many repairs! You knock ball
bearings in by driving them on the OUTER race. Usually using a
suitably sized socket and a medium hammer. Care is required, of
coarse
- but the chance of contributing to brunelling of the bearing are
excedingly remote. Bearing drivers are made and available at a
reasonable price for purists and tool junkies - and are the standard
recommended method of "driving" most automotive ball and roller
bearings, from alternators to transmissions.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Try running that past a bearing manufacturing application engineer
and see if you can get one to salute it.

Guarantee it will never happen.

The above is total bull ****.

There was a time in my life that one of my major tasks was to oversee
the design and installation of all ball bearings for an electrical
rotating
equipment manufacturer.

We shipped thousands units equipped with ball bearings every month.

Trust me, none of my bearing suppliers would have put holy water on
what you are suggesting.

Lew

In article , mikemcig-
says...

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 23:19:26 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

m II wrote:
Take it to a motor repair shop. They have the presses, bearings and do
this professionally.


That is indeed an option, but too many bearings have been seated manually
for this to be necessary. It's not rocket science to seat a bearing. Maybe
some of the people that post here should have actually have done some of the
work they talk about before they talk...

I've installed many a bearing tapping it on with the right size
socket. I'm with you on this.

How well that works depends on the design of the bearing and how much
force is needed to seat it. If the socke fits the inner race on a
bearing that seats on the shaft or the outer on one that seats on the
bore it should be fine. What you want to avoid doing is transferring
the impact load via the balls or rollers.

"Han" wrote in message ...

"anon" wrote in
ng.com:

"Han" wrote in message
...

"anon" wrote in
ng.com:

Han,

I've never seen a bad bearing in these small motors cause a fire, but
I suppose it is possible. The usual risk from hot bearings is
thermal breakdown of insulators within the motor windings and wires,
possible causing a electrical hazard.

If the bearings races or ball are pitted (not that you can see them
without destroying the the bearing set), replacing the bearings is a
very good solution for that type of motor. They will be ball
bearing sets, not sleeve bearings. When you get the replacements try
to get the "ZZ" type which have both sides sealed, as your device is
apparently used in a dusty environment.

Sometimes you get lucky and the bearings stay on the rotor which
makes them easier to remove using a bearing puller. A bearing press
is handy for reinstallation but I've also used a heavy drill press
(off) with makeshift jig. Brinelling is a risk when approaching
these with a hammer, especially if the fit is tight.

Light machine oil was suggested for a temporary fix, and it indeed
can prolong the life of the bearings considerably if they've simply
dried out, if you can get the oil into the bearing set casing.
However, there is a popular canned spray that should be avoided,
marketed as a "lubricant" and is often touted as the fix-all for
everything. However, around sealed, greased bearings, the stuff is a
nightmare since it is a powerful degreaser, which liquifies the
packed grease. It's name begins with WD - don't fall for the hype.

Check for loose mounting as suggested since the cage is fairly
lightweight and would squeak if given the chance.

(The opinions and suggestion expressed above are my own and do not
reflect current enginieering or electrical standards in any way.)
Scott in Dunedin, FL

This is very close to a post-mortem, as predicted by Puckdropper.

I took things apart. This is a 7.7 Amp motor for 1050 rpm. It was
rather solidly mounted, so that wasn't the problem.

It was an interesting experience. There was 1 loose long bolt that
attached a grounding wire between outer housing and motor itself. If
there ever was a nut on the other side it is now lost. I can't get
the bearing covers (?) off unless I go out and buy something. So I am
going to ask a plumber friend whether he might know of a squirrelcage
fan and motor that is looking for a new home. Otherwise, I may just
go and get another one on eBay.

-
Han,

It sounds as if the bearings are tightly pressed onto the rotor and
into the end caps, preventing you from separating the motor. A seated
bearing set will only move if pressure is applied evenly and straight
along shaft direction. Prying with one screwdriver is futile; you
would need at least two large screwdrivers applied at the same time
directly across from each other, torquing in opposite directions.
Even this is doubtful to work on the tough nuts to crack.

Sometimes I'll use the weight of the stator to my advantage, being
very careful to protect the shaft, and raise the motor assy and strike
(gently at first) the shaft end of the rotor (traveling in a straight
line with the shaft) onto the (carpetted) bench until the weight of
the stator drives the front end cap off of the bearing (or the front
bearing off the shaft). Unfortunately removing the rear end cap is
more difficult without the mass of the stator to help and the end caps
tend to be a brittle cast metal that don€„¢t like repeated banging.

Regarding the nutless screw, if one of the adjoining screws were at
all loose, one of the end caps could have skewed slightly, binding the
bearing up, creating increased friction, higher heat, etc.. If the
motor could be hand turned, find a nut to fit the bolt, tighten it all
up making sure the end caps seat tightly and evenly into the stator
frame. Having all of the screws tight may make the difference.

(The opinions and suggestion expressed above are my own and do not
reflect current enginieering or electrical standards in any way.)

Scott in Dunedin FL

Thanks, Scott, but I have indeed given up on this thing. Chalk one up
for experience and in favor of the disposable society. I wonder what the
town's recycling division is going to do with it ...

-
Aye, the ease of disassembly usually offers a taste of the reassembly.
Good luck then,
Scott in Dunedin FL

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
b.com...


wrote:


Man, it's obvious you have not dome many repairs! You knock ball
bearings in by driving them on the OUTER race. Usually using a
suitably sized socket and a medium hammer. Care is required, of coarse
- but the chance of contributing to brunelling of the bearing are
excedingly remote. Bearing drivers are made and available at a
reasonable price for purists and tool junkies - and are the standard
recommended method of "driving" most automotive ball and roller
bearings, from alternators to transmissions.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Try running that past a bearing manufacturing application engineer
and see if you can get one to salute it.

Guarantee it will never happen.

The above is total bull ****.

There was a time in my life that one of my major tasks was to oversee
the design and installation of all ball bearings for an electrical
rotating
equipment manufacturer.

We shipped thousands units equipped with ball bearings every month.

Trust me, none of my bearing suppliers would have put holy water on
what you are suggesting.

Lew
-
Indeed, the "proper" way to install a bearing set is to use steady, even
pressure. Bearing manufacturers are quite clear on that. In practice
though, repair facilities often do not have the fancy custom bearing presses
available to the manufacturer.

Most bearing replacements can be accomplished using a little hammer finesse
with little consequence. Once you encounter a little resistance though, the
finesse turns to force, and you end up with divots in the bearing race.
Usually not too severe, but if your work must pass vibration and decibel
standards, you invest in a press.

You can make a mortise with a sharp screwdriver, but a mortising bit in a
drill press works better. "...right tool for the job..."
my 2 bits,
Scott in Dunedin FL

In article m, Lew
Hodgett wrote:

wrote:


Man, it's obvious you have not dome many repairs! You knock ball
bearings in by driving them on the OUTER race. Usually using a
suitably sized socket and a medium hammer. Care is required, of
coarse
- but the chance of contributing to brunelling of the bearing are
excedingly remote. Bearing drivers are made and available at a
reasonable price for purists and tool junkies - and are the standard
recommended method of "driving" most automotive ball and roller
bearings, from alternators to transmissions.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Try running that past a bearing manufacturing application engineer
and see if you can get one to salute it.

Guarantee it will never happen.

The above is total bull ****.

There was a time in my life that one of my major tasks was to oversee
the design and installation of all ball bearings for an electrical
rotating
equipment manufacturer.

We shipped thousands units equipped with ball bearings every month.

Trust me, none of my bearing suppliers would have put holy water on
what you are suggesting.

Yeah, and Adobe says never to open a document across a network with its
software.

Doesn't mean it can't be done quite successfully.

Application engineer != Real world use

--
I used to like fishing because I thought it had some larger significance. Now I
like fishing because it¹s the one thing I can think of that probably doesn¹t. *
John Gierach

In article 280920120948179934%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca,
says...

In article m, Lew
Hodgett wrote:

wrote:


Man, it's obvious you have not dome many repairs! You knock ball
bearings in by driving them on the OUTER race. Usually using a
suitably sized socket and a medium hammer. Care is required, of
coarse
- but the chance of contributing to brunelling of the bearing are
excedingly remote. Bearing drivers are made and available at a
reasonable price for purists and tool junkies - and are the standard
recommended method of "driving" most automotive ball and roller
bearings, from alternators to transmissions.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Try running that past a bearing manufacturing application engineer
and see if you can get one to salute it.

Guarantee it will never happen.

The above is total bull ****.

There was a time in my life that one of my major tasks was to oversee
the design and installation of all ball bearings for an electrical
rotating
equipment manufacturer.

We shipped thousands units equipped with ball bearings every month.

Trust me, none of my bearing suppliers would have put holy water on
what you are suggesting.

Yeah, and Adobe says never to open a document across a network with its
software.

Doesn't mean it can't be done quite successfully.

Application engineer != Real world use

The real issue isn't that you won't get away with it. Most of the time
you will, and you'll tell yourself that you'll remember that if it's
something mission critical that lives or very expensive property depend
on you'll remember to do it the right way. The trouble is that you'll
have the bad habit by that time and won't remember.

J. Clarke wrote:

The real issue isn't that you won't get away with it. Most of the
time you will, and you'll tell yourself that you'll remember that if
it's something mission critical that lives or very expensive property
depend on you'll remember to do it the right way. The trouble is
that you'll have the bad habit by that time and won't remember.

Come on now - surely you don't think people are really that robotic now - do
you? That's just foolish.

--

-Mike-