Pat Barber wrote:
On 4/18/2012 7:55 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Tera bytes? Is anyone involved in this thread even thinking about
realistic needs? Come on - terabytes?

I was thinking as I read that...what the hell are people storing ?

Exactly what I was thinking. Back in the day, we made decions about what to
back up because it served no purpose to back up entire disk images when only
a small amount of data changed. It was not just about cost either - though
that certainly was a consideration.


I was also thinking that if I had a terabyte drive filled up, that I
reached the point of having a wee too much data/pictures/movies/music.

My thoughts exactly. But, I suppose when it's cheap - what the heck...



My newly minted son-in-law was telling us that he now had 80,000+
songs stored on various devices..... I wondered how the hell does he
find anything ?


80,000 songs!?!?!?!? I agree - how in the heck do you take advantage of
that?


He apparently loaded that up to the web in just a short
period of a week or so....

Ugh!



I support a couple of multi-national companies that don't have
anything approaching a terabyte.


Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a terabyte for a
good sized corporation, let alone any PC home applications.

It appears that we have veered off our old woodworking thing again.

No - it is assumed that all of the terabyte drives are housed in hand built,
dove tailed (or Domino'd) hardwood cases.

--

-Mike-

In article
Pat Barber writes:

And....what are you multi-terabyte folks using to backup all those
terabytes with ?


I gave up on traditional backups when drives got past about 20 gig.

Most of my important stuff is in a directory tree that I mirror to
several machines. Two of them sync every night and the others sync
when I remmeber to tell them. So that stuff is safe for any single
disk failure or a local event (fire, etc) since one of the machines
is in another state.

Other things get backed up from time to time and dumped on a RAID
file system. I probably should burn those and take them to work
(my offsite storage).

I don't do cloud. I'm not that trusting. No on else gets my data.


--
Drew Lawson | It's not enough to be alive
| when your future's been deferred

On 4/19/2012 10:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Pat Barber wrote:
On 4/18/2012 7:55 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Tera bytes? Is anyone involved in this thread even thinking about
realistic needs? Come on - terabytes?

I was thinking as I read that...what the hell are people storing ?

Exactly what I was thinking. Back in the day, we made decions about what to
back up because it served no purpose to back up entire disk images when only
a small amount of data changed. It was not just about cost either - though
that certainly was a consideration.

People have stuff! My dad still has the very first e-mail that he
received 15 years ago, and I swear they are all in his in box. LOL. He
HAS reached the end of the internet.

Way back when I recall having DOS back up programs that would load at
the a or c prompt. I trusted those but it took a load of floppies. I
no longer trust images as most every image program over the years has
had some kind of problem. So if my system crashes I am going to simply
reinstall the OS and my programs and have a fresh clean start. And then
copy my data files back in.

Currently I have a 128 GIG solid state primary c: drive that basically
has nothing but the OS and program files. I have a 1 terabyte data
drive With all my data that I want to keep, going back 25 years. I have
used "SEVEN" percent of the drive



I was also thinking that if I had a terabyte drive filled up, that I
reached the point of having a wee too much data/pictures/movies/music.

I think if you have a terabyte drive filled with data you just might
have a problem LOL.. Hoarder.




My thoughts exactly. But, I suppose when it's cheap - what the heck...



My newly minted son-in-law was telling us that he now had 80,000+
songs stored on various devices..... I wondered how the hell does he
find anything ?

I bet you that he does not know 1/4 of what he has on there.



80,000 songs!?!?!?!? I agree - how in the heck do you take advantage of
that?


Yeah that is only 166 days of continuous listening.

On 4/19/2012 10:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a terabyte for a
good sized corporation, let alone any PC home applications.

Even small businesses these days, particularly using media like videos
and multitrack recording for will run through a terabyte of data in
short order, and data that must be backed up with regard to version
control makes it even worse.

This was a huge, and expensive, problem ten years when I was still
participating in the operation of a commercial recording studio, and
today's requirements are even more demanding.

So no, in reality, you can't say that ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 4/19/2012 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:

Yeah that is only 166 days of continuous listening.


And all depending upon the vulnerability of the electrical grid ...


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Leon wrote:


Currently I have a 128 GIG solid state primary c: drive that basically
has nothing but the OS and program files. I have a 1 terabyte data
drive With all my data that I want to keep, going back 25 years. I
have used "SEVEN" percent of the drive


Precisely! People have been talking about having terabytes of data when
what they mean is that they have a terbye drive. I want to see the member
in this forum who really has a terabyte of real date. It's cool to have big
things (just ask your wife...), but like so many other things, this stuff
can get out of hand. Sometimes technology and people who think they
understand it get out of sync with such fundamentals as Computer Science and
diciplines.

--

-Mike-

Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 10:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a
terabyte for a good sized corporation, let alone any PC home
applications.

Even small businesses these days, particularly using media like videos
and multitrack recording for will run through a terabyte of data in
short order, and data that must be backed up with regard to version
control makes it even worse.


Oh stop Swing. What are you speaking about when you say videos and
multitrack recording? Even in a recording environment, a terabyte is a lot
of data. But - even if there are specialized industries that do indeed
require that kind of storage, it's still very far from the topic at hand,
which is more about PC storage - for the most of us. Again - even very
significant corporations do not require this level of backup. The fact that
a particular niche may require it is the anomoly.


This was a huge, and expensive, problem ten years when I was still
participating in the operation of a commercial recording studio, and
today's requirements are even more demanding.

So no, in reality, you can't say that ...

I absolutely can. Read what I wrote. I did not address niche industries
like commercial recording. As I stated - good sized corporations and home
PC's do not require this level of backup capacity.

--

-Mike-

On 4/19/2012 12:38 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 10:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a
terabyte for a good sized corporation, let alone any PC home
applications.

Even small businesses these days, particularly using media like videos
and multitrack recording for will run through a terabyte of data in
short order, and data that must be backed up with regard to version
control makes it even worse.


Oh stop Swing. What are you speaking about when you say videos and
multitrack recording? Even in a recording environment, a terabyte is a lot
of data. But - even if there are specialized industries that do indeed
require that kind of storage, it's still very far from the topic at hand,
which is more about PC storage - for the most of us. Again - even very
significant corporations do not require this level of backup. The fact that
a particular niche may require it is the anomoly.


This was a huge, and expensive, problem ten years when I was still
participating in the operation of a commercial recording studio, and
today's requirements are even more demanding.

So no, in reality, you can't say that ...

I absolutely can. Read what I wrote. I did not address niche industries
like commercial recording. As I stated - good sized corporations and home
PC's do not require this level of backup capacity.

I provided some examples of less than "good sized corporations" that
easily do exceed your data storage requirements. If you don't think that
"good sized corporations" don't have "niche" departments in their
structure that engender EXACTLY these kind of data storage requirements,
it makes your statement even more apparent that you're living in the past.

Welcome to the 21st century, just five years ago:

Notably, TheInfoPro's Wave-9 Survey of companies showed about 70% of
corporate data is duplicates. TheInfoPro did not survey small companies
or small home offices, the ranks of which represent 700,000 companies
with revenue of $200 million or less. But Robert Stevenson, managing
director at TheInfoPro, estimated those small companies have from 500GB
to 1TB of data today, and that they are experiencing the same
exponential data growth as larger companies.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...in_three_years

And again, that was five years ago.

Cite some evidence to backup your "I absolutely can.". I still don't
think you can.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 4/19/2012 12:38 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 10:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a
terabyte for a good sized corporation, let alone any PC home
applications.

Even small businesses these days, particularly using media like videos
and multitrack recording for will run through a terabyte of data in
short order, and data that must be backed up with regard to version
control makes it even worse.


Oh stop Swing. What are you speaking about when you say videos and
multitrack recording? Even in a recording environment, a terabyte is a lot
of data.

You're living in the past, Mike. 100 hours of digital video storage,
which even the smallest video production studio will exceed for _one
project_ *excluding backup requirements*, requires 1.26 TB of storage.

But - even if there are specialized industries that do indeed
require that kind of storage, it's still very far from the topic at hand,
which is more about PC storage -

Don't look now, Bubba, it was YOU who changed the "topic at hand" with
your "good sized corporation" remark.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

"Mike Marlow" writes:
Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 10:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a
terabyte for a good sized corporation, let alone any PC home
applications.

Even small businesses these days, particularly using media like videos
and multitrack recording for will run through a terabyte of data in
short order, and data that must be backed up with regard to version
control makes it even worse.


Oh stop Swing. What are you speaking about when you say videos and
multitrack recording? Even in a recording environment, a terabyte is a lot
of data. But - even if there are specialized industries that do indeed
require that kind of storage, it's still very far from the topic at hand,
which is more about PC storage - for the most of us. Again - even very
significant corporations do not require this level of backup. The fact that
a particular niche may require it is the anomoly.

If you have 700 CD's that's about 400 GB ripped as 16-bit stereo PCM (.wav).
If you have 1000 DVD's, that's about 4096 GB (4 TB). A single Blu-ray is 25 to 50 GB.

It's useful to have on a hard disk for media centers feeding stereos and
media players (now built into your TV).


scott

Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 12:38 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 10:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a
terabyte for a good sized corporation, let alone any PC home
applications.

Even small businesses these days, particularly using media like
videos and multitrack recording for will run through a terabyte of
data in short order, and data that must be backed up with regard to
version control makes it even worse.


Oh stop Swing. What are you speaking about when you say videos and
multitrack recording? Even in a recording environment, a terabyte
is a lot of data. But - even if there are specialized industries
that do indeed require that kind of storage, it's still very far
from the topic at hand, which is more about PC storage - for the
most of us. Again - even very significant corporations do not
require this level of backup. The fact that a particular niche may
require it is the anomoly.
This was a huge, and expensive, problem ten years when I was still
participating in the operation of a commercial recording studio, and
today's requirements are even more demanding.

So no, in reality, you can't say that ...

I absolutely can. Read what I wrote. I did not address niche
industries like commercial recording. As I stated - good sized
corporations and home PC's do not require this level of backup
capacity.

I provided some examples of less than "good sized corporations" that
easily do exceed your data storage requirements. If you don't think
that "good sized corporations" don't have "niche" departments in their
structure that engender EXACTLY these kind of data storage
requirements, it makes your statement even more apparent that you're
living in the past.

I never said - or even implied that large volumes of data are not archived.
I simply stated that good sized corporations do not require TB storage
capacity for a good backup scheme. Read up on backup strategies and then
you'll see what I am saying. Sure - there are exceptions to this
statement - I never claimed there were not.

Welcome to the 21st century, just five years ago:


I have made a career in this or similar industries. I'm plenty more than 5
years current.


Notably, TheInfoPro's Wave-9 Survey of companies showed about 70% of
corporate data is duplicates. TheInfoPro did not survey small
companies or small home offices, the ranks of which represent 700,000
companies with revenue of $200 million or less. But Robert Stevenson,
managing director at TheInfoPro, estimated those small companies have
from 500GB to 1TB of data today, and that they are experiencing the
same exponential data growth as larger companies.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...in_three_years

And again, that was five years ago.

Context Swing - context.


Cite some evidence to backup your "I absolutely can.". I still don't
think you can.

That's fine. I don't really have the energy right now for another internet
****ing context. Maybe tomorrow I will...

--

-Mike-

Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 12:38 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 10:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a
terabyte for a good sized corporation, let alone any PC home
applications.

Even small businesses these days, particularly using media like
videos and multitrack recording for will run through a terabyte of
data in short order, and data that must be backed up with regard to
version control makes it even worse.


Oh stop Swing. What are you speaking about when you say videos and
multitrack recording? Even in a recording environment, a terabyte
is a lot of data.

You're living in the past, Mike. 100 hours of digital video storage,
which even the smallest video production studio will exceed for _one
project_ *excluding backup requirements*, requires 1.26 TB of storage.

But - even if there are specialized industries that do indeed
require that kind of storage, it's still very far from the topic at
hand, which is more about PC storage -

Don't look now, Bubba, it was YOU who changed the "topic at hand" with
your "good sized corporation" remark.

I made a simple freakin' statement. Too bad that had to be taken so damned
literally as to cause you to go off and find "proof" that it had flaws in
it. Oh well...

--

-Mike-

On 4/19/2012 12:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


Currently I have a 128 GIG solid state primary c: drive that basically
has nothing but the OS and program files. I have a 1 terabyte data
drive With all my data that I want to keep, going back 25 years. I
have used "SEVEN" percent of the drive


Precisely! People have been talking about having terabytes of data when
what they mean is that they have a terbye drive. I want to see the member
in this forum who really has a terabyte of real date. It's cool to have big
things (just ask your wife...), but like so many other things, this stuff
can get out of hand. Sometimes technology and people who think they
understand it get out of sync with such fundamentals as Computer Science and
diciplines.


Well I can see "today" how a terabyte is probably needed for a "pro"
photographer, musician, cinematographer, and perhaps a few others. But
for the most part I would imagine the average user will be well handled
with less than 1 terabyte drive, just for data.

That all changes once you start backing that all up and keeping several
versions of the data or versions of images.

For instance Windows 7 is doing routine back ups of my data in the back
ground. It is backing up to a 500 gig drive. That drive filled up in
the last year with multiple copies of my "stuff" I had to go in and
delete several of those back ups and if this what others are running
into they should probably do the same.

On 4/19/2012 2:07 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:


Cite some evidence to backup your "I absolutely can.". I still don't
think you can.

That's fine. I don't really have the energy right now for another internet
****ing context. Maybe tomorrow I will...

IOW, as long as you're ****ing on someone else it's OK? Good luck with that.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 4/19/2012 11:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

I don't plan on getting into a discussion about about how much
everybody is storing or needs to store, but for those of you
with TB dreams, you better hope the computer industry has a
major announcement pretty soon.

This will provide you with a little view of how things are now.

http://www.hitachigst.com/internal-drives/above-2tb/

This discussion, as many on this forum, seems to drift out into
oblivion on too many occasions.

If your current computer is over 30 minutes old, you don't have
all these data center capabilities I keep reading about here.

May the force be with you.


If you have 700 CD's that's about 400 GB ripped as 16-bit stereo PCM (.wav).
If you have 1000 DVD's, that's about 4096 GB (4 TB). A single Blu-ray is 25 to 50 GB.

It's useful to have on a hard disk for media centers feeding stereos and
media players (now built into your TV).


scott

On 4/19/2012 2:19 PM, Leon wrote:

Well I can see "today" how a terabyte is probably needed for a "pro"
photographer, musician, cinematographer, and perhaps a few others. But
for the most part I would imagine the average user will be well handled
with less than 1 terabyte drive, just for data.

Yeah, right! .. that's what Bill Gates supposedly said about 640KB.

Wait until you start saving that O' Brother Where Art Thou" sequel, and
Ashley Judd HD movies for future viewing. The trend in storing these
data intensive formats is away from the optical to hard drive and/or
cloud storage.

A Terabyte is, despite protestations to the contrary hereabouts,
shrinking in its expectations as we speak.

Just the upcoming TV paradigm revolution is going to make a TB seem like
floppy disk storage in very short order.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 2:07 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:


Cite some evidence to backup your "I absolutely can.". I still don't
think you can.

That's fine. I don't really have the energy right now for another
internet ****ing context. Maybe tomorrow I will...

IOW, as long as you're ****ing on someone else it's OK? Good luck
with that.

****ing on someone else? That does not even warrant a defensive reply.

--

-Mike-

On 4/19/2012 2:42 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 2:19 PM, Leon wrote:

Well I can see "today" how a terabyte is probably needed for a "pro"
photographer, musician, cinematographer, and perhaps a few others. But
for the most part I would imagine the average user will be well handled
with less than 1 terabyte drive, just for data.

Yeah, right! .. that's what Bill Gates supposedly said about 640KB.



And exactly why I qualified that with "today", "pro" and a few others.
I am well aware that there will be exceptions but "today" I can't see
more than 85% of the general public needing more, "today". The future
is a whole different ball game.





Wait until you start saving that O' Brother Where Art Thou" sequel, and
Ashley Judd HD movies for future viewing. The trend in storing these
data intensive formats is away from the optical to hard drive and/or
cloud storage.

A Terabyte is, despite protestations to the contrary hereabouts,
shrinking in its expectations as we speak.

Just the upcoming TV paradigm revolution is going to make a TB seem like
floppy disk storage in very short order.


And wait till when Hologram TV comes to life. ;~)

Pat Barber writes:
On 4/19/2012 11:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:


If you have 700 CD's that's about 400 GB ripped as 16-bit stereo PCM (.wav).
If you have 1000 DVD's, that's about 4096 GB (4 TB). A single Blu-ray is 25 to 50 GB.

It's useful to have on a hard disk for media centers feeding stereos and
media players (now built into your TV).


scott


I don't plan on getting into a discussion about about how much
everybody is storing or needs to store, but for those of you
with TB dreams, you better hope the computer industry has a
major announcement pretty soon.

This will provide you with a little view of how things are now.

http://www.hitachigst.com/internal-drives/above-2tb/

This discussion, as many on this forum, seems to drift out into
oblivion on too many occasions.

If your current computer is over 30 minutes old, you don't have
all these data center capabilities I keep reading about here.

May the force be with you.


[top posting fixed]

I run linux. No problem with 2TB. That's a microsoft problem.

scott

In article
"Mike Marlow" writes:
Leon wrote:


Currently I have a 128 GIG solid state primary c: drive that basically
has nothing but the OS and program files. I have a 1 terabyte data
drive With all my data that I want to keep, going back 25 years. I
have used "SEVEN" percent of the drive


Precisely! People have been talking about having terabytes of data when
what they mean is that they have a terbye drive. I want to see the member
in this forum who really has a terabyte of real date.

It wouldn't surprise me, though. My main system has about 420GB of data.

It's cool to have big
things (just ask your wife...), but like so many other things, this stuff
can get out of hand. Sometimes technology and people who think they
understand it get out of sync with such fundamentals as Computer Science and
diciplines.

Oh, the programming stuff only takes up megabytes. But people can
fill a lot of space with audio/image/video data. If I did video
editing, I would probably want (at least) a terabyte array.


--
Drew Lawson | "But the senator, while insisting he was not
| intoxicated, could not explain his nudity."

In article
Swingman writes:

A Terabyte is, despite protestations to the contrary hereabouts,
shrinking in its expectations as we speak.

Just the upcoming TV paradigm revolution is going to make a TB seem like
floppy disk storage in very short order.

I am still on analog cable service. When I switch on the digital,
I'll be adding terabyte expansion drives to my TiVos. From what
I've heard, I will find that a bit small.


--
|Drew Lawson | Mrs. Tweedy! |
| | The chickens are revolting! |

A graphic nicely illustrating the spiraling growth in data storage needs
currently in motion:

http://www.rackspace.com/blog/infogr...a-storage-101/

Many are obviously not aware of these hugely growing requirements ...
the advent of mobile devices, the shift toward laptop computing, iPads
and other tablets, etc., have caused radical changes in both need and
methods of storage that aren't apparent until you embrace the technology
on either end, as a business catering to the consumer, or the consumer
storing what's is going to be served to him.

Therein lies the inarguable shift toward "cloud computing/storage", like
it or not.

This is going to impact _you_ sooner then later ... unless, of course,
the Mayan's were right.


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

lid (Drew Lawson) wrote in news:jmpu5m$kta$2
@raid.furrfu.com:


I am still on analog cable service. When I switch on the digital,
I'll be adding terabyte expansion drives to my TiVos. From what
I've heard, I will find that a bit small.


I put a TB drive in my DVR around November. It's full now and starting to
delete things to make room. For some DVRs, that point is actually
considered "steady state" and not a problem.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Pat Barber wrote in
:

On 4/19/2012 11:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

I don't plan on getting into a discussion about about how much
everybody is storing or needs to store, but for those of you
with TB dreams, you better hope the computer industry has a
major announcement pretty soon.

This will provide you with a little view of how things are now.

http://www.hitachigst.com/internal-drives/above-2tb/

This discussion, as many on this forum, seems to drift out into
oblivion on too many occasions.

If your current computer is over 30 minutes old, you don't have
all these data center capabilities I keep reading about here.

May the force be with you.


Oh. That again. Remember when it was around 512 MB to 1 GB?

If you're running a 64-bit Windows OS, it's not a problem. Windows has
been 64-bit capable since XP came out around the turn of the century.
(I'm not sure if 2000 had a 64-bit version or not.)

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 4/19/2012 5:23 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
lid (Drew Lawson) wrote in news:jmpu5m$kta$2
@raid.furrfu.com:


I am still on analog cable service. When I switch on the digital,
I'll be adding terabyte expansion drives to my TiVos. From what
I've heard, I will find that a bit small.


I put a TB drive in my DVR around November. It's full now and starting to
delete things to make room. For some DVRs, that point is actually
considered "steady state" and not a problem.

Just discovered a couple of nights ago that ALL my recorded woodworking
videos, which somehow went from "do not erase", to "OK erase to make
room", are now in the great bit bucket in the sky.

The dangers of the boomerang generation moving back "home" and starting
their own recording schemes, as if they were paying the bills.


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 04/19/2012 08:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:


Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a terabyte for a
good sized corporation, let alone any PC home applications.


Ackshooly, when you start saving all your hi def pics and videos of
grandkids, the gigabytes just roll by, then when you start downloading
movies, well...

I stuck a couple of 2TB drives in my linux print/scan/file/backup server
using software RAID1.

Backuppc http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/

running on the server auto backups the three PC's in the house - my
linux desktop, the OverLords Win 7 and the winXP/linux dual boot laptop.
It's all compressed/incremental/etc. I also buzz off backuppc
archives on rewritable dvds once a month and give them to my son for
offsite storage.

The world changed on data size when GUIs showed up on PCs and graphics
and audio went rampant. Actual company databases pale in size compared
to all this graphics and audio stuff. Also the reason why operating
systems and memory sizes are off the charts.

On 4/19/2012 7:20 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:

and audio went rampant. Actual company databases pale in size compared
to all this graphics and audio stuff.

I recall recently reading somewhere that Microsoft's SAP database alone
was in the neighborhood of 6TB ... and that may be an old recollection?

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 4/19/2012 10:18 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:

I don't do cloud. I'm not that trusting. No on else gets my data.

My data is not important enough to matter ... yet.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 4/19/2012 3:56 PM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In articleqsKdneyOAO099w3SnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@giganews. com
writes:

A Terabyte is, despite protestations to the contrary hereabouts,
shrinking in its expectations as we speak.

Just the upcoming TV paradigm revolution is going to make a TB seem like
floppy disk storage in very short order.

I am still on analog cable service. When I switch on the digital,
I'll be adding terabyte expansion drives to my TiVos. From what
I've heard, I will find that a bit small.



Good goley How many Tivo recordings to you want to keep??? My 120 gig
DVR records 60 hours IIRC in HD.

On 4/19/2012 5:30 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 5:23 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
lid (Drew Lawson) wrote in news:jmpu5m$kta$2
@raid.furrfu.com:


I am still on analog cable service. When I switch on the digital,
I'll be adding terabyte expansion drives to my TiVos. From what
I've heard, I will find that a bit small.


I put a TB drive in my DVR around November. It's full now and starting to
delete things to make room. For some DVRs, that point is actually
considered "steady state" and not a problem.

Just discovered a couple of nights ago that ALL my recorded woodworking
videos, which somehow went from "do not erase", to "OK erase to make
room", are now in the great bit bucket in the sky.

The dangers of the boomerang generation moving back "home" and starting
their own recording schemes, as if they were paying the bills.



And you did not back them up???? LOL Storing stuff on a DVR is no saver
than on a computer.

On 4/19/2012 7:50 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 10:18 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:

I don't do cloud. I'm not that trusting. No on else gets my data.

My data is not important enough to matter ... yet.


That is how I see it. There are a lot of more interesting targets out
there.

Drew Lawson wrote:


It wouldn't surprise me, though. My main system has about 420GB of
data.

Oh, the programming stuff only takes up megabytes. But people can
fill a lot of space with audio/image/video data. If I did video
editing, I would probably want (at least) a terabyte array.

Your comments and the comments of a few others did reveal something. I had
not considered such things as DVR's and the likes earlier. Or any other
media related storage for that matter. A good backup strategy however,
would still benefit those environments and reduce the amount of backup
required, since one only needs to back up dynamic data on a regular
schedule, and not all of the static data.

--

-Mike-

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 04/19/2012 08:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:


Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a
terabyte for a good sized corporation, let alone any PC home
applications.

Ackshooly, when you start saving all your hi def pics and videos of
grandkids, the gigabytes just roll by, then when you start downloading
movies, well...

I stuck a couple of 2TB drives in my linux print/scan/file/backup
server using software RAID1.

Yesbut, you don't need to repeatedly backup all of that data. A good backup
strategy only backs up changed data. Though, as I said in a previous reply,
at the price of storage, it's probably moot.



--

-Mike-

On 04/19/2012 06:27 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 04/19/2012 08:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:


Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a
terabyte for a good sized corporation, let alone any PC home
applications.

Ackshooly, when you start saving all your hi def pics and videos of
grandkids, the gigabytes just roll by, then when you start downloading
movies, well...

I stuck a couple of 2TB drives in my linux print/scan/file/backup
server using software RAID1.

Yesbut, you don't need to repeatedly backup all of that data. A good backup
strategy only backs up changed data. Though, as I said in a previous reply,
at the price of storage, it's probably moot.



That's why I mentioned "incremental". The backuppc server app keeps one
full every week and incrementals every day until the next week, so at
most you have two fulls and six incrementals depending on the day in the
cycle. And I also mentioned compression which in my case seems to
reduce the load to between 1/2 and 1/3 of real size. Of course, you can
configure whatever schedule you'd like and whatever compression ratio
you can afford the time for.

On 04/19/2012 07:31 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 04/19/2012 06:27 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 04/19/2012 08:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:


Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a
terabyte for a good sized corporation, let alone any PC home
applications.

Ackshooly, when you start saving all your hi def pics and videos of
grandkids, the gigabytes just roll by, then when you start downloading
movies, well...

I stuck a couple of 2TB drives in my linux print/scan/file/backup
server using software RAID1.

Yesbut, you don't need to repeatedly backup all of that data. A good
backup
strategy only backs up changed data. Though, as I said in a previous
reply,
at the price of storage, it's probably moot.



That's why I mentioned "incremental". The backuppc server app keeps one
full every week and incrementals every day until the next week, so at
most you have two fulls and six incrementals depending on the day in the
cycle. And I also mentioned compression which in my case seems to reduce
the load to between 1/2 and 1/3 of real size. Of course, you can
configure whatever schedule you'd like and whatever compression ratio
you can afford the time for.

....and also, the backuppc app does a hash on the files and if it finds
dups, it increments the count but doesn't have to save the dup. when
the count goes to zero, so does the file when considering all the fulls
and increments.

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:30:55 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 4/19/2012 5:23 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
lid (Drew Lawson) wrote in news:jmpu5m$kta$2
@raid.furrfu.com:


I am still on analog cable service. When I switch on the digital,
I'll be adding terabyte expansion drives to my TiVos. From what
I've heard, I will find that a bit small.


I put a TB drive in my DVR around November. It's full now and starting to
delete things to make room. For some DVRs, that point is actually
considered "steady state" and not a problem.

Just discovered a couple of nights ago that ALL my recorded woodworking
videos, which somehow went from "do not erase", to "OK erase to make
room", are now in the great bit bucket in the sky.

The dangers of the boomerang generation moving back "home" and starting
their own recording schemes, as if they were paying the bills.

Egad! Are you going to let the hogs take care of what's left of the
culprit? Have you master-passworded every electronics item in your
home and office yet?

--
That's the thing about needs. Sometimes, when you get them met,
you don't need them anymore. -- Michael Patrick King

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 04/19/2012 06:27 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 04/19/2012 08:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:


Thank you! A good backup strategy will never come close to a
terabyte for a good sized corporation, let alone any PC home
applications.

Ackshooly, when you start saving all your hi def pics and videos of
grandkids, the gigabytes just roll by, then when you start
downloading movies, well...

I stuck a couple of 2TB drives in my linux print/scan/file/backup
server using software RAID1.

Yesbut, you don't need to repeatedly backup all of that data. A
good backup strategy only backs up changed data. Though, as I said
in a previous reply, at the price of storage, it's probably moot.



That's why I mentioned "incremental". The backuppc server app keeps
one full every week and incrementals every day until the next week,
so at most you have two fulls and six incrementals depending on the
day in the cycle. And I also mentioned compression which in my case
seems to reduce the load to between 1/2 and 1/3 of real size. Of
course, you can configure whatever schedule you'd like and whatever
compression ratio you can afford the time for.

Sorry - misunderstood what you were saying. Somehow, when I saw this (
It's all compressed/incremental/etc. ), my mind interpreted that to be a
directory structure. Go figure...

--

-Mike-

On 4/19/2012 8:22 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Drew Lawson wrote:


It wouldn't surprise me, though. My main system has about 420GB of
data.

Oh, the programming stuff only takes up megabytes. But people can
fill a lot of space with audio/image/video data. If I did video
editing, I would probably want (at least) a terabyte array.

Your comments and the comments of a few others did reveal something. I had
not considered such things as DVR's and the likes earlier. Or any other
media related storage for that matter. A good backup strategy however,
would still benefit those environments and reduce the amount of backup
required, since one only needs to back up dynamic data on a regular
schedule, and not all of the static data.

"Incremental backups" have been standard backup strategy since before
xcopy was introduced.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 8:22 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Drew Lawson wrote:


It wouldn't surprise me, though. My main system has about 420GB of
data.

Oh, the programming stuff only takes up megabytes. But people can
fill a lot of space with audio/image/video data. If I did video
editing, I would probably want (at least) a terabyte array.

Your comments and the comments of a few others did reveal something.
I had not considered such things as DVR's and the likes earlier. Or
any other media related storage for that matter. A good backup
strategy however, would still benefit those environments and reduce
the amount of backup required, since one only needs to back up
dynamic data on a regular schedule, and not all of the static data.

"Incremental backups" have been standard backup strategy since before
xcopy was introduced.

Correct - but people here have been talking about backing up a (near)
terabyte of data, which has also been explained to be fairly static data.
Implied - no incremental backup strategy.

--

-Mike-

On 4/19/2012 10:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 4/19/2012 8:22 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Drew Lawson wrote:


It wouldn't surprise me, though. My main system has about 420GB of
data.

Oh, the programming stuff only takes up megabytes. But people can
fill a lot of space with audio/image/video data. If I did video
editing, I would probably want (at least) a terabyte array.

Your comments and the comments of a few others did reveal something.
I had not considered such things as DVR's and the likes earlier. Or
any other media related storage for that matter. A good backup
strategy however, would still benefit those environments and reduce
the amount of backup required, since one only needs to back up
dynamic data on a regular schedule, and not all of the static data.

"Incremental backups" have been standard backup strategy since before
xcopy was introduced.

Correct - but people here have been talking about backing up a (near)
terabyte of data, which has also been explained to be fairly static data.
Implied - no incremental backup strategy.

IIRC, I started the unfortunate rabbit trail discussion with this remark
yesterday, specifically stating the incremental strategy:

On 4/18/2012 12:04 PM, Swingman wrote:

Two different uses, two totally different concepts ... I had no
concern with, and no unrealistic expectations of, how long it takes
for an initial upload to Carbonite, because it was configured to be
done over a two week period as a background task with low priority.

All subsequent file changes and additions are incremental background
tasks done without noticeably impacting my use.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop