I just finished my first woodworking project. This is from a guy who
never made so much as a birdhouse before. It is a tray with the handle
cut in the sides. My wife saw one like it at Pottery Barn and wanted to
buy it for $40. I told her I could build something that simple. SO,
$70 or so dollars later I finished it. It might not look quite as good
but I suspect it will hold up longer and the sentimental value is worth
something.

The wood cutting part was fairly straight forward but cutting the
handles in the sides with rounded ends was a real.... pain. I learned a
lot in the process but it still would be a pain to try it again.

I sanded the wood (pine) down to 220 grit, but now that it's done, I see
that I should have sanded more. Then I used a couple of coats of
mahoganny stain. I then applied a sanding sealer. Probably didn't need
it with Pine but that's what the instructions on the lacquer can said.
(I suspect profit motives may have been involved). After spraying the
sealer, I did a quick once over with 220 grit sandpaper. I then sprayed
about five coats of lacquer. I used 4F pumice followed by 2F pumice and
then followed up with rottenstone. I finished it with a carnuba wax. I
feel pretty confident about the process and materials, but if anyone has
any thoughts or warnings about my method, please fill me in.

If I had it to do again, I probably would have used Polyurethane for
durability but I had heard a bad thing or two about it. Since then I've
come to recognize that it had it's strengths and weaknesses like every
finish out there.

I learned that a brush is okay for getting dust out of the corners until
the metal part around the bristles brushes against your wood and leaves
an ugly divit.

I also learned that you can't read enough about finishes, though it
looks like the best teacher will be experience.

A couple of thing are still bugging me. I still haven't figured out how
to properly sand inside corners (after staining). I guess using a q-tip
to remove excess stain in the corners might have helped and reduced the
need for sanding. It also bugs me that there are a few spots on the
wood that are near white. I didn't use a wood filler so I'm guessing
the lumber company (?) did... Any suggestions on how to fix this in the
future?

The important thing is that I enjoyed the process and learned a lot.
I'm starting on a multi-room martin bird house now. It doesn't require
much in the way of finishing....

Richard A.

Good one.

Try holding the rod a little higher just as you flick the bait out there.
And use better bait. Maybe a fly (try a fly-tying newsgroup).

Sheesh.


"Richard A." wrote in message
news:wHkEd.17602$ph.2097@okepread01...
I just finished my first woodworking project. This is from a guy who never
made so much as a birdhouse before. It is a tray with the handle cut in
the sides. My wife saw one like it at Pottery Barn and wanted to buy it
for $40. I told her I could build something that simple. SO, $70 or so
dollars later I finished it. It might not look quite as good but I suspect
it will hold up longer and the sentimental value is worth something.

The wood cutting part was fairly straight forward but cutting the handles
in the sides with rounded ends was a real.... pain. I learned a lot in
the process but it still would be a pain to try it again.

I sanded the wood (pine) down to 220 grit, but now that it's done, I see
that I should have sanded more. Then I used a couple of coats of
mahoganny stain. I then applied a sanding sealer. Probably didn't need
it with Pine but that's what the instructions on the lacquer can said. (I
suspect profit motives may have been involved). After spraying the
sealer, I did a quick once over with 220 grit sandpaper. I then sprayed
about five coats of lacquer. I used 4F pumice followed by 2F pumice and
then followed up with rottenstone. I finished it with a carnuba wax. I
feel pretty confident about the process and materials, but if anyone has
any thoughts or warnings about my method, please fill me in.

If I had it to do again, I probably would have used Polyurethane for
durability but I had heard a bad thing or two about it. Since then I've
come to recognize that it had it's strengths and weaknesses like every
finish out there.

I learned that a brush is okay for getting dust out of the corners until
the metal part around the bristles brushes against your wood and leaves an
ugly divit.

I also learned that you can't read enough about finishes, though it looks
like the best teacher will be experience.

A couple of thing are still bugging me. I still haven't figured out how
to properly sand inside corners (after staining). I guess using a q-tip
to remove excess stain in the corners might have helped and reduced the
need for sanding. It also bugs me that there are a few spots on the wood
that are near white. I didn't use a wood filler so I'm guessing the
lumber company (?) did... Any suggestions on how to fix this in the
future?

The important thing is that I enjoyed the process and learned a lot. I'm
starting on a multi-room martin bird house now. It doesn't require much
in the way of finishing....

Richard A.

J.B. Bobbitt wrote:
Good one.

Try holding the rod a little higher just as you flick the bait out there.
And use better bait. Maybe a fly (try a fly-tying newsgroup).


Oh, I don't know. If it was a real troll, the wood almost certainly
would have been cherry and it would have still been stained. And some
kind of worry about the wood being 0.001" out of X would have been involved.

Richard A. wrote:
I just finished my first woodworking project. This is from a guy who
never made so much as a birdhouse before. It is a tray with the handle
cut in the sides. My wife saw one like it at Pottery Barn and wanted to
buy it for $40. I told her I could build something that simple. SO,
$70 or so dollars later I finished it. It might not look quite as good
but I suspect it will hold up longer and the sentimental value is worth
something.

The wood cutting part was fairly straight forward but cutting the
handles in the sides with rounded ends was a real.... pain. I learned a
lot in the process but it still would be a pain to try it again.

I sanded the wood (pine) down to 220 grit, but now that it's done, I see
that I should have sanded more. Then I used a couple of coats of
mahoganny stain. I then applied a sanding sealer. Probably didn't need
it with Pine but that's what the instructions on the lacquer can said.
(I suspect profit motives may have been involved). After spraying the
sealer, I did a quick once over with 220 grit sandpaper. I then sprayed
about five coats of lacquer. I used 4F pumice followed by 2F pumice and
then followed up with rottenstone. I finished it with a carnuba wax. I
feel pretty confident about the process and materials, but if anyone has
any thoughts or warnings about my method, please fill me in.

If I had it to do again, I probably would have used Polyurethane for
durability but I had heard a bad thing or two about it. Since then I've
come to recognize that it had it's strengths and weaknesses like every
finish out there.

I learned that a brush is okay for getting dust out of the corners until
the metal part around the bristles brushes against your wood and leaves
an ugly divit.

I also learned that you can't read enough about finishes, though it
looks like the best teacher will be experience.

A couple of thing are still bugging me. I still haven't figured out how
to properly sand inside corners (after staining). I guess using a q-tip
to remove excess stain in the corners might have helped and reduced the
need for sanding. It also bugs me that there are a few spots on the
wood that are near white. I didn't use a wood filler so I'm guessing
the lumber company (?) did... Any suggestions on how to fix this in the
future?

The important thing is that I enjoyed the process and learned a lot. I'm
starting on a multi-room martin bird house now. It doesn't require much
in the way of finishing....

Richard A.


Pine is ugly to stain and finish. It blotches. get used to it. yuk!
Wrecked a few projects myself with pine. :-) You can find some "test"
jewel boxes on my site made of pine. Only stained one. I can learn fast
when the lesson is painful enough.

Sanding inside corners sucks. Don't put anything together until every
piece fits perfectly and everything is sanded. We all learn that.
Staining them properly sucks worse. Maybe somebody can tell us both how
to do that. :-)

So far you are batting a 100.

I recommend the Minwax pre-stain conditioner if you _must_ use pine --
and then stain it. Works for me.

I have given up on stain (for pine) and now just use sealer/conditioner
-- whatever is handy -- then wipe-on clear poly. I'm sure you can
stain pine -- I can't though. LOL

Did make green dye work once on pine - that wasn't too bad.
http://woodwork.pmccl.com/Business/p...tsoutdoor.html

These were test items to learn about finishes -- tortured them -- then
refinished them.

Have fun with the bird house. People probably thought that you were
serious to that point. They forget that bird need houses too. grin

Do not paint or stain Cherry then post an admission in this group. They
will hunt you down and... Never mind! Just be warned. LOL


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
http://woodwork.pmccl.com

Richard and Will,

I'm mostly a "Home Center Amateur Woodworker" myself, so take my advice
accordingly...

However, we recently built a whole house full of cabinets, shelves, and end
tables using off-the-shelf #2 pine from the local home centers. I made the
carcasses out of 3/4" birch plywood, but the face frames, doors, and drawer
fronts are all pine. So, I guess I have a little experience with pine
now...

I don't know if this is the best way of doing things, but this is the
process I used:

1. Sand parts with 150 grit paper. If it's really rough I'll use 100 grit
first, but that's usually not needed for wood I get from the home centers.
Using the coarser paper seems to leave more sander swirls that take more
time to get out. So, I just stick with the 150 paper when I can.

2. Assemble the project. If I have to sand the corners after assembly for
some reason (glue in the corners maybe?), the best method I have found is
to fold a piece of sandpaper in half so I have a nice sharp edge. Then I
sand by hand along the corner, following the grain. It's slow and
difficult, but it works if I really need to do it.

3. Clean off all saw dust using a brush attachment on a shop vac. This
seems to work as well as a tack cloth for me, and does a better job of
cleaning out corners and small crevices.

4. Wipe on a coat of Minwax "Wood Preconditioner". This doesn't need to be
fancy. I just fold up a paper towel, dip it in the conditioner, and wipe it
on the wood. I haven't seen that the application technique makes any
difference with the conditioner. This makes the stain a bit lighter
colored, but it stains a LOT more evenly.

5. Apply a Minwax Gel stain (we used "Windsor Oak" color) using a "stain
applicator" pad. Essentially this is just a sponge with some kind of cloth
covering. I have found these work really well for applying the stain
evenly. And, being flexible and somewhat absorbant, you can really push
them into the corners to apply the stain and clean up the excess. By the
way, cheap latex gloves help prevent stained fingers...

6. Apply a coat of Olympic Satin Oil Based polyurethane. Let dry overnight.

7. Lightly sand finish with 220 grit paper. I use a sanding block to sand
evenly by hand. It mostly just knocks off the bumps and ridges and goes
really quick. But, it also roughens the 1st coat so the 2nd coat will
stick. Just don't overdo it and sand through the poly to the stain!

8. Shop-vac the dust again.

9. Apply a second coat of the poly. Let dry overnight.

If I'm looking for a really nice finish, I'll repeat steps 7-9 again. But,
for most of our purposes the two coats produced a look we wanted.

If I want a really nice finish, I'll use a foam "brush" to apply the poly.
It seems to leave a smoother surface than a standard brush. However, it's
hard to do the inside corners with a foam brush!

I'm sure most of the "real" woodworkers here would laugh at my techniques,
but we've been real happy with the results.


We also had nine interior pine doors that needed finishing. I was concerned
about staining all those nooks and crannies in the raised panel doors, and
didn't really have the time to go through my usual process. So I used this
technique for the pine doors:

1. Sand with 150 grit sanding "pad". These worked great for getting in all
the tight spots that would have been difficult otherwise.

2. Brush on a coat of Zinser Orange Shellac, right out of the can. Let dry
4 hours.

3. Sand with 180 grit sanding pad. Shop vac dust.

4. For the second coat, I thinned the orange shellac 50/50 with denatured
alcohol. I found this left the finish slightly lighter in color and the
door wasn't as glossy as an undiluted second coat.

I wouldn't necessarily choose the color of the shellac, but it was quick
and produced results we are happy with.

Anthony

Richard A. wrote:
Paul Kierstead wrote:

J.B. Bobbitt wrote:

Good one.

Try holding the rod a little higher just as you flick the bait out
there. And use better bait. Maybe a fly (try a fly-tying newsgroup).




Oh, I don't know. If it was a real troll, the wood almost certainly
would have been cherry and it would have still been stained. And some
kind of worry about the wood being 0.001" out of X would have been
involved.



Okay, I'll be the first to admit I'm a serious newbie at woodworking. I
honestly wasn't trying to bait anybody.

I read quite a bit before starting since I don't know any woodworkers
personally. I also took a finishing class at Woodcraft. I've also
lurked around this group for a while. I also followed the directions on
the can, which probably isn't the smartest thing to do since they are
trying to sell products.

I was just trying to do this project in a non-newbie fashion. If I did
or said something silly, please let me know so I won't repeat it.


Staining Pine.

But we all do that at least once. :-) -- I confessed to the offense too.
I think it gets a sentence of 20 years reading only Troll posts - but
only if you are caught in the act. An admission of guilt does _not_
count. Pictures are required to document the offense so hope you do not
woodwork in the nude or in drag.

It isn't easy -- but you did fine. Just don't do it again -- ok? LOL

All kidding aside. Sounds to me like you are doing just fine.



Thanks,
Richard



--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

HerHusband wrote:

Richard and Will,

I'm mostly a "Home Center Amateur Woodworker" myself, so take my advice
accordingly...

However, we recently built a whole house full of cabinets, shelves, and end
tables using off-the-shelf #2 pine from the local home centers. I made the
carcasses out of 3/4" birch plywood, but the face frames, doors, and drawer
fronts are all pine. So, I guess I have a little experience with pine
now...

I don't know if this is the best way of doing things, but this is the
process I used:

1. Sand parts with 150 grit paper. If it's really rough I'll use 100 grit
first, but that's usually not needed for wood I get from the home centers.
Using the coarser paper seems to leave more sander swirls that take more
time to get out. So, I just stick with the 150 paper when I can.

2. Assemble the project. If I have to sand the corners after assembly for
some reason (glue in the corners maybe?), the best method I have found is
to fold a piece of sandpaper in half so I have a nice sharp edge. Then I
sand by hand along the corner, following the grain. It's slow and
difficult, but it works if I really need to do it.

3. Clean off all saw dust using a brush attachment on a shop vac. This
seems to work as well as a tack cloth for me, and does a better job of
cleaning out corners and small crevices.

4. Wipe on a coat of Minwax "Wood Preconditioner". This doesn't need to be
fancy. I just fold up a paper towel, dip it in the conditioner, and wipe it
on the wood. I haven't seen that the application technique makes any
difference with the conditioner. This makes the stain a bit lighter
colored, but it stains a LOT more evenly.

5. Apply a Minwax Gel stain (we used "Windsor Oak" color) using a "stain
applicator" pad. Essentially this is just a sponge with some kind of cloth
covering. I have found these work really well for applying the stain
evenly. And, being flexible and somewhat absorbant, you can really push
them into the corners to apply the stain and clean up the excess. By the
way, cheap latex gloves help prevent stained fingers...

6. Apply a coat of Olympic Satin Oil Based polyurethane. Let dry overnight.

7. Lightly sand finish with 220 grit paper. I use a sanding block to sand
evenly by hand. It mostly just knocks off the bumps and ridges and goes
really quick. But, it also roughens the 1st coat so the 2nd coat will
stick. Just don't overdo it and sand through the poly to the stain!

8. Shop-vac the dust again.

9. Apply a second coat of the poly. Let dry overnight.

If I'm looking for a really nice finish, I'll repeat steps 7-9 again. But,
for most of our purposes the two coats produced a look we wanted.

If I want a really nice finish, I'll use a foam "brush" to apply the poly.
It seems to leave a smoother surface than a standard brush. However, it's
hard to do the inside corners with a foam brush!

I'm sure most of the "real" woodworkers here would laugh at my techniques,
but we've been real happy with the results.


We also had nine interior pine doors that needed finishing. I was concerned
about staining all those nooks and crannies in the raised panel doors, and
didn't really have the time to go through my usual process. So I used this
technique for the pine doors:

1. Sand with 150 grit sanding "pad". These worked great for getting in all
the tight spots that would have been difficult otherwise.

2. Brush on a coat of Zinser Orange Shellac, right out of the can. Let dry
4 hours.

3. Sand with 180 grit sanding pad. Shop vac dust.

4. For the second coat, I thinned the orange shellac 50/50 with denatured
alcohol. I found this left the finish slightly lighter in color and the
door wasn't as glossy as an undiluted second coat.

I wouldn't necessarily choose the color of the shellac, but it was quick
and produced results we are happy with.

Anthony

All us Jummywood aficionados salute you sir. Seriously, pine and doug
fir don't get enough appreciation in the wooddorking world. Good advice.
mahalo,
jo4hn