On 5/7/2011 12:44 PM, Swingman wrote:

... or maybe ATT's mail server is screwing around with you?

PUHLEEESE: Not to be taken seriously ... it is a location joke.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 7 May 2011 11:55:08 -0500, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:



"Steve Turner" wrote in message ...

On 5/7/2011 9:37 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 5/7/2011 8:18 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

What's going on with more and more newsreaders all of a sudden? Reference
Leon's reply above to a previous post - no manner of differentiating his
reply from the previous post. It's not just Leon's posts, it's been
showing
up in more and more posts by different people.

I've had that problem with Leon's posts here for quite some time. The only
way
I can decipher his content from replies on certain messages is to read the
post
he's replying to again ... this has been going on for a year or more,
IIRC.

That said, it only happened when he was replying to some messages, not
all. I
chalked it up to Thunderbird?

To make matters even more confusing, Leon now has a new computer and is
apparently no longer using Outlook?

Go figure ...

Next time you're at his house, sneak into his computer and replace his
Windows
Live Mail with Thunderbird.

Better yet install Outlook Express. ;~) I am using giganews, I wonder if
that is why Outlook Express was showing the same problem.

If Outlook Express had been available for Win7, I'd still be using it.
That and Security Essentials are the only good programs ever put out
by Microsoft.

--
The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil
wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those
who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic
principles. -- Ayn Rand

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

What's going on with more and more newsreaders all of a sudden? Reference
Leon's reply above to a previous post - no manner of differentiating his
reply from the previous post. It's not just Leon's posts, it's been showing
up in more and more posts by different people. Do people not know how to
set their newsreader to insert something to differentiate their reply from
the previous comments (seems unlikely, since this is not a longstanding
problem), or has there been a recent release of one of the more popular
newsreaders?

Request to those experiencing this - please take a look at your reader
configuration, or at least insert something into your reply that clearly
differentiates your comments from previous comments. It is impossible to
sort through who said what in some of these replies.

It's certainly a Windows Live Mail problem, at least. I've been all over it
looking for settings and there's just about nothing. I'm using it now, and
have been since I put Windows 7 on this machine, more out of inertia than
anything else (I was using OE before). Occasionally I put the angle brackets
in manually as a courtesy, but not always.

I still read the mail on a few selected newsgroups such as this one, but
rarely post. I've gotten so tired of the near-constant flame wars, ****ing
contests, and off-topic wooly-minded political rants that I've just about
given up on Usenet.

The wreck isn't too bad about that stuff, and occasionally I'll find some
real jewels here, so if I'm going to post anywhere it's probably going to be
here. But I'll confess that I'm not terribly motivated to look for a better
newsgroup reader because it's such a small part of my life.

So sorry about the missing angle brackets in the quoted text above.

Best regards to all,
Tom Dacon

On Sat, 07 May 2011 12:54:02 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/7/2011 12:41 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
FrozenNorth wrote:

Outlook Express was a bad newsreader, Windows Live Mail is atrocious.
Expect to see more of it as people migrate to Win7, unless they
download and use another program for news.

I don't think OE was all that bad - it was far from perfect, but it largely
functioned as a newsreader. The biggest problem I ever saw in it was
Microsoft's attempt to change the world of usenet and force top posting, but
that was easily overcome with little effort on the part of the poster. I
have not seen Win7 yet, nor Windows Live Mail, but it does seem like it is a
real cluster...

I liked OE ... it was simple and did exactly what I wanted it to do,
nothing more.

Then true to MSFT's MO, they had to replace it with WM/WLM, the biggest,
most boated POS email client in existence, IMO.

When I got Vista with my laptop, I struggled with WLM for months and
finally and switched to ThunderBird.

I've gotten used to TB, but I still miss the simplicity of OE.

I'm still trying to get it to handle junk mail decently. And now that
I've switched main email addresses, I'm trying to figure out how to
get it to display new mail under the Local Folders. Mozilla has no
support to speak of and the good people who reply to questions reply
only once, vaguely. sigh

--
The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil
wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those
who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic
principles. -- Ayn Rand

On Sat, 07 May 2011 12:54:02 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/7/2011 12:41 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
FrozenNorth wrote:

Outlook Express was a bad newsreader, Windows Live Mail is atrocious.
Expect to see more of it as people migrate to Win7, unless they
download and use another program for news.

I don't think OE was all that bad - it was far from perfect, but it largely
functioned as a newsreader. The biggest problem I ever saw in it was
Microsoft's attempt to change the world of usenet and force top posting, but
that was easily overcome with little effort on the part of the poster. I
have not seen Win7 yet, nor Windows Live Mail, but it does seem like it is a
real cluster...

I liked OE ... it was simple and did exactly what I wanted it to do,
nothing more.

Ditto, with "exactly" being a key word. I've truly liked only two
email programs I've tried in all these years. They were Eudora (paid
version 3) and OE.

--
The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil
wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those
who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic
principles. -- Ayn Rand

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

I've truly liked only two email programs I've tried in all these years.
They were Eudora (paid version 3) and OE.



Of course, Eudora is for mail, not news ...

I never liked OE. Eudora 7.1.0.9 is now free. It has drawbacks, mainly
for extended characters sets. For me it works fine. All my emails from 6
or so different email addresses go into the centralized inbox. Filtering
can automagically transfer to other email boxes, with sounds, notifications
and labels. There is junkmail capabilities (but I mainly use an older
version of Mailwasher for that). There are sigs and "stationery"
customizable for different "personalities".

See the newsgroup comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows for help, if needed.

For news I use Xnews. I started with the newshandling of the old Netscape
navigator. Xnews handles things similarly, but more powerfully. No fancy
html that can get you into trouble.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
I still read the mail on a few selected newsgroups such as this one, but
rarely post. I've gotten so tired of the near-constant flame wars, ****ing
contests, and off-topic wooly-minded political rants that I've just about
given up on Usenet.

Then, I suggest you have a look at the Festool Owners Group. It's run and
moderated by Festool, but it covers the entire gamut of woodworking
including many other woodworking tools and methods that have nothing to do
with Festool. There's no flame wars, swearing and very little of the
political or religious rants that frequent this newsgroup. As well, there's
nothing in the way of trolls or anything close to all around ****
disturbers. Despite this seemingly controlled atmosphere, moderation is very
rare other than maintenance issues. Have a look.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

Leon wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message ...

On 5/6/2011 8:53 AM, Leon wrote:


"Edward Hennessey" wrote in message
m...

Google, I don't see your posts unless others quote them.

Regards,

EH


That is something unique to you.

Hardly. Anyone using NewsProxy now that used it when newsgroups
were
actually popular probably has Google blocked. That was due to the
volume of crap that came from Google initiated by every wanna be
troll
in knee pants. Fortunately, that activity seems to have all but
disappeared.


Unique in that "he" will have to make the changes to be able to
correct the problem. I did not mean to say that only he has the
problem, just that the problem had to be corrected on his end.

What's going on with more and more newsreaders all of a sudden?
Reference
Leon's reply above to a previous post - no manner of differentiating
his
reply from the previous post. It's not just Leon's posts, it's been
showing
up in more and more posts by different people. Do people not know
how to
set their newsreader to insert something to differentiate their
reply from
the previous comments (seems unlikely, since this is not a
longstanding
problem), or has there been a recent release of one of the more
popular
newsreaders?

Request to those experiencing this - please take a look at your
reader
configuration, or at least insert something into your reply that
clearly
differentiates your comments from previous comments. It is
impossible to
sort through who said what in some of these replies.


This has been a situation starting with me using Windows Live Mail
on Win 7. I have not yet figured out how to keep it from stripping
off or adding the thingys.



As long as we are talking about newsreaders and OE,
does anyone know if OE allows you to put the "watch
eyeglasses" icon on a single post in a thread instead
of doing that to all thread posts when you only want
to watch one?

If this is possible, what is the maneuver?
If it is not possible in OE, is there a better newsreader
that has that capability?

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

"Edward Hennessey" wrote in message
m...


"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

Leon wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message ...

On 5/6/2011 8:53 AM, Leon wrote:


"Edward Hennessey" wrote in message
m...

Google, I don't see your posts unless others quote them.

Regards,

EH


That is something unique to you.

Hardly. Anyone using NewsProxy now that used it when newsgroups were
actually popular probably has Google blocked. That was due to the
volume of crap that came from Google initiated by every wanna be troll
in knee pants. Fortunately, that activity seems to have all but
disappeared.


Unique in that "he" will have to make the changes to be able to
correct the problem. I did not mean to say that only he has the
problem, just that the problem had to be corrected on his end.

What's going on with more and more newsreaders all of a sudden? Reference
Leon's reply above to a previous post - no manner of differentiating his
reply from the previous post. It's not just Leon's posts, it's been
showing
up in more and more posts by different people. Do people not know how to
set their newsreader to insert something to differentiate their reply from
the previous comments (seems unlikely, since this is not a longstanding
problem), or has there been a recent release of one of the more popular
newsreaders?

Request to those experiencing this - please take a look at your reader
configuration, or at least insert something into your reply that clearly
differentiates your comments from previous comments. It is impossible to
sort through who said what in some of these replies.


This has been a situation starting with me using Windows Live Mail on Win
7. I have not yet figured out how to keep it from stripping off or adding
the thingys.



As long as we are talking about newsreaders and OE,
does anyone know if OE allows you to put the "watch
eyeglasses" icon on a single post in a thread instead
of doing that to all thread posts when you only want
to watch one?

If this is possible, what is the maneuver?
If it is not possible in OE, is there a better newsreader
that has that capability?

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

I am not sure how "watched" and the "flag" differ, I always used the "flag".
It will allow a single flag on "1 or more" posts in a thread.

In article , lid
says...

On 5/7/2011 11:55 AM, Leon wrote:


"Steve Turner" wrote in message ...

On 5/7/2011 9:37 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 5/7/2011 8:18 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

What's going on with more and more newsreaders all of a sudden? Reference
Leon's reply above to a previous post - no manner of differentiating his
reply from the previous post. It's not just Leon's posts, it's been showing
up in more and more posts by different people.

I've had that problem with Leon's posts here for quite some time. The only way
I can decipher his content from replies on certain messages is to read the post
he's replying to again ... this has been going on for a year or more, IIRC.

That said, it only happened when he was replying to some messages, not all. I
chalked it up to Thunderbird?

To make matters even more confusing, Leon now has a new computer and is
apparently no longer using Outlook?

Go figure ...

Next time you're at his house, sneak into his computer and replace his Windows
Live Mail with Thunderbird.

Better yet install Outlook Express. ;~) I am using giganews, I wonder if that
is why Outlook Express was showing the same problem.

"Better yet" ? Phew... Can't stand that thing...

How does one go about "installing" Outlook Express, anyway, other than
by installing a copy of XP or earlier in a virtual machine?

On 07 May 2011 19:10:28 GMT, Han wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

I've truly liked only two email programs I've tried in all these years.
They were Eudora (paid version 3) and OE.



Of course, Eudora is for mail, not news ...

Missed that first part, didja? g Yes, the original post was on
news, but once someone said "Thunderbird" (and I got past the old
thought about it being a really icky, cheap wine) I thought "email
program". OE was an email prog, too, but I guess both can do news.
You could design and code websites with Netscape, but that wasn't its
main purpose. shrug


I never liked OE. Eudora 7.1.0.9 is now free. It has drawbacks, mainly

Free versions were always cluttered with farkin' advertising crap. I
wouldn't have one of those programs on my computer, ever.


for extended characters sets. For me it works fine. All my emails from 6
or so different email addresses go into the centralized inbox. Filtering
can automagically transfer to other email boxes, with sounds, notifications
and labels. There is junkmail capabilities (but I mainly use an older
version of Mailwasher for that). There are sigs and "stationery"
customizable for different "personalities".

See the newsgroup comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows for help, if needed.

For news I use Xnews. I started with the newshandling of the old Netscape
navigator. Xnews handles things similarly, but more powerfully. No fancy
html that can get you into trouble.

And I use Forte AGENT. My only complaint with it is that they still
haven't given me a way to filter responses to a given post as well as
the original poster.

--
The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil
wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those
who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic
principles. -- Ayn Rand

On Sat, 7 May 2011 12:58:39 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:


"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
m...

This has been a situation starting with me using Windows Live Mail
on Win 7. I have not yet figured out how to keep it from stripping
off or adding the thingys.

Send an email request to LiveMail support, Leon.


As long as we are talking about newsreaders and OE,
does anyone know if OE allows you to put the "watch
eyeglasses" icon on a single post in a thread instead
of doing that to all thread posts when you only want
to watch one?

If this is possible, what is the maneuver?
If it is not possible in OE, is there a better newsreader
that has that capability?

The eyeglass icon is used to "watch thread". I've never seen any
differentiation in a news prog which would apply to a single post
within a thread, Ed.

I've been happily using Agent since version 0.93. It does news and it
doesn't burp.

--
The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil
wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those
who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic
principles. -- Ayn Rand

On 5/07/11 6:36 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:


Free versions were always cluttered with farkin' advertising crap. I
wouldn't have one of those programs on my computer, ever.

What????
You ever heard of linux?
Firefox and Thunderbird are not ad encumbered, similar for Safari,
Chrome, Gimp, LibreOffice and many other open source programs.
--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

FrozenNorth wrote in news:iq4iev$vsl$1
@dont-email.me:

On 5/07/11 6:36 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:


Free versions were always cluttered with farkin' advertising crap. I
wouldn't have one of those programs on my computer, ever.

What????
You ever heard of linux?
Firefox and Thunderbird are not ad encumbered, similar for Safari,
Chrome, Gimp, LibreOffice and many other open source programs.

The ads on Eudora were not too obtrusive, I think. But, I think Eudora was
worth paying for. And now the paid version is free, and registration codes
are freely available on the web.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
does anyone know if OE allows you to put the "watch
eyeglasses" icon on a single post in a thread instead
of doing that to all thread posts when you only want
to watch one?

Depends on the version you have. In the version I have right now, you .left
click on any of the columns, such as subject, right click on the popup word
"columns" and then select watch/ignore. That column will then be added to
your categories. After that, you can individually select a particular
subject to watch or ignore.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 May 2011 12:58:39 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:


"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
om...

This has been a situation starting with me using Windows Live Mail
on Win 7. I have not yet figured out how to keep it from stripping
off or adding the thingys.

Send an email request to LiveMail support, Leon.


As long as we are talking about newsreaders and OE,
does anyone know if OE allows you to put the "watch
eyeglasses" icon on a single post in a thread instead
of doing that to all thread posts when you only want
to watch one?

If this is possible, what is the maneuver?
If it is not possible in OE, is there a better newsreader
that has that capability?

The eyeglass icon is used to "watch thread". I've never seen any
differentiation in a news prog which would apply to a single post
within a thread, Ed.


LJ:

The flag option--which was staring at me unchecked
this whole time--works to do that in OE. Verified it
by opening and closing the thread and doing the
same with OE. It persisted. That's a find.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey
I've been happily using Agent since version 0.93. It does news and
it
doesn't burp.

--
The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil
wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those
who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic
principles. -- Ayn Rand

On May 7, 6:52*pm, FrozenNorth
wrote:
On 5/07/11 6:36 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:



Free versions were always cluttered with farkin' advertising crap. I
wouldn't have one of those programs on my computer, ever.

* What????
You ever heard of linux?
Firefox and Thunderbird are not ad encumbered, similar for Safari,
Chrome, Gimp, LibreOffice and many other open source programs.
--
Froz...

The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

I happen to like Safari, both on my macs and PC's.

(Wrapped, ready to take to the courier, spending a lot of time doing
family stuff.)

On Sat, 07 May 2011 18:52:04 -0400, FrozenNorth wrote:

On 5/07/11 6:36 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:


Free versions were always cluttered with farkin' advertising crap. I
wouldn't have one of those programs on my computer, ever.

What????
You ever heard of linux?
Firefox and Thunderbird are not ad encumbered, similar for Safari,
Chrome, Gimp, LibreOffice and many other open source programs.

Yep,

using pan as Newsreader, when trapped on a windows machine
I use 40tude dialog, it has a bit of a learning curve but
worth it to get away from oe and/or livemail.

basilisk



--
A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse

On Sat, 07 May 2011 18:52:04 -0400, FrozenNorth
wrote:

On 5/07/11 6:36 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:


Free versions were always cluttered with farkin' advertising crap. I
wouldn't have one of those programs on my computer, ever.

What????
You ever heard of linux?
Firefox and Thunderbird are not ad encumbered, similar for Safari,
Chrome, Gimp, LibreOffice and many other open source programs.

We were talking about free versions of Eudora, Froz. You snipped this
line by Han from my reply:
I never liked OE. Eudora 7.1.0.9 is now free.

--
The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil
wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those
who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic
principles. -- Ayn Rand

On Sat, 7 May 2011 16:47:11 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 7 May 2011 12:58:39 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:


"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
news:eOCdnWYKeZOX5FjQnZ2dnUVZ5qWdnZ2d@giganews. com...

This has been a situation starting with me using Windows Live Mail
on Win 7. I have not yet figured out how to keep it from stripping
off or adding the thingys.

Send an email request to LiveMail support, Leon.


As long as we are talking about newsreaders and OE,
does anyone know if OE allows you to put the "watch
eyeglasses" icon on a single post in a thread instead
of doing that to all thread posts when you only want
to watch one?

If this is possible, what is the maneuver?
If it is not possible in OE, is there a better newsreader
that has that capability?

The eyeglass icon is used to "watch thread". I've never seen any
differentiation in a news prog which would apply to a single post
within a thread, Ed.


LJ:

The flag option--which was staring at me unchecked
this whole time--works to do that in OE. Verified it
by opening and closing the thread and doing the
same with OE. It persisted. That's a find.

What was your purpose in flagging them, Ed? I thought you were trying
to watch those sub-threads. Flagging is just marking, similar to the
Keep command in Agent.

--
The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil
wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those
who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic
principles. -- Ayn Rand

"Upscale" wrote in message
...


"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
I still read the mail on a few selected newsgroups such as this one, but
rarely post. I've gotten so tired of the near-constant flame wars, ****ing
contests, and off-topic wooly-minded political rants that I've just about
given up on Usenet.

Then, I suggest you have a look at the Festool Owners Group. It's run and
moderated by Festool, but it covers the entire gamut of woodworking
including many other woodworking tools and methods that have nothing to do
with Festool. There's no flame wars, swearing and very little of the
political or religious rants that frequent this newsgroup. As well, there's
nothing in the way of trolls or anything close to all around ****
disturbers. Despite this seemingly controlled atmosphere, moderation is very
rare other than maintenance issues. Have a look.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/

Thanks, Upscale. I'm a bit of a Festool guy myself in a minor way, with one
or two of them in my kit - the smaller sheet goods saw and a 5" random
orbital sander with the littlest vacuum, and I wish the budget would allow
me to add a few more of them.

Good tip. See you there.

Tom

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 May 2011 16:47:11 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 7 May 2011 12:58:39 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:


"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
news:eOCdnWYKeZOX5FjQnZ2dnUVZ5qWdnZ2d@giganews .com...

This has been a situation starting with me using Windows Live
Mail
on Win 7. I have not yet figured out how to keep it from
stripping
off or adding the thingys.

Send an email request to LiveMail support, Leon.


As long as we are talking about newsreaders and OE,
does anyone know if OE allows you to put the "watch
eyeglasses" icon on a single post in a thread instead
of doing that to all thread posts when you only want
to watch one?

If this is possible, what is the maneuver?
If it is not possible in OE, is there a better newsreader
that has that capability?

The eyeglass icon is used to "watch thread". I've never seen any
differentiation in a news prog which would apply to a single post
within a thread, Ed.


LJ:

The flag option--which was staring at me unchecked
this whole time--works to do that in OE. Verified it
by opening and closing the thread and doing the
same with OE. It persisted. That's a find.

What was your purpose in flagging them, Ed? I thought you were
trying
to watch those sub-threads. Flagging is just marking, similar to the
Keep command in Agent.

LJ:

Agent is unexperienced. But flags look good
for marking a post for extraction or signalizing
one that deserves a reply when later becomes
available or where there is some thinking or
research to be done before that.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


--
The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil
wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those
who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic
principles. -- Ayn Rand

"Mike Marlow" wrote
I don't think OE was all that bad - it was far from perfect, but it
largely functioned as a newsreader. The biggest problem I ever saw in it
was Microsoft's attempt to change the world of usenet and force top
posting, but that was easily overcome with little effort on the part of
the poster. I have not seen Win7 yet, nor Windows Live Mail, but it does
seem like it is a real cluster...

Win7 is great. XP has been solid, but W7 is easier to use on the desktop.

The 2010 version of Live Mail is just fine, but the 2011 version sucks big
time. I was able to roll back to the older version. If I bought a new
computer, I'd find another news reader to use.

On Sat, 7 May 2011 19:50:40 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 7 May 2011 16:47:11 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:
LJ:

The flag option--which was staring at me unchecked
this whole time--works to do that in OE. Verified it
by opening and closing the thread and doing the
same with OE. It persisted. That's a find.

What was your purpose in flagging them, Ed? I thought you were
trying
to watch those sub-threads. Flagging is just marking, similar to the
Keep command in Agent.

LJ:

Agent is unexperienced.

You mean you're not experienced with Agent? It's a very good, mature
program.


But flags look good
for marking a post for extraction or signalizing
one that deserves a reply when later becomes
available or where there is some thinking or
research to be done before that.

Yeah, whatever works for you. I keep (K) the posts I want to hold
onto, and when I get the next set of posts, the others are purged.
With only unread messages showing, the rest are safely stashed in the
database for later viewing and reference.

--
If the American people ever allow private banks to control
the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by
deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up
around them will deprive the people of all property until
their children wake up homeless on the continent their
Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions
are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies...
The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
-- misattributed to Thomas Jefferson

It is typically a time proven troll and a whine against MS products by the
OCD crowd.

Also some of the deficiencies of these readers are the source for the
top-posting troll seen from the troll crowd

--------------------
"dadiOH" wrote in message ...
Right. I've never understood why so many knock it so badly. Perhaps
*because* of its simplicity and they seek complexity to read a gajillion
groups?

MS seems to be into "hiding" things are that are not used frequently. I like
it but it makes a steep learning curve.
Yes the 2011 version is a bitch at first but it is all there if you figure
out how to right click some magic symbol you have never paid attention to
before.

-------------------
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
Win7 is great. XP has been solid, but W7 is easier to use on the desktop.

The 2010 version of Live Mail is just fine, but the 2011 version sucks big
time. I was able to roll back to the older version. If I bought a new
computer, I'd find another news reader to use.

---------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote
I don't think OE was all that bad - it was far from perfect, but it
largely functioned as a newsreader. The biggest problem I ever saw in it
was Microsoft's attempt to change the world of usenet and force top
posting, but that was easily overcome with little effort on the part of
the poster. I have not seen Win7 yet, nor Windows Live Mail, but it does
seem like it is a real cluster...

"Josepi" wrote in message
MS seems to be into "hiding" things are that are not used frequently. I
like it but it makes a steep learning curve.

Not a steep learning curve. Trolls like you simply don't have the
intelligence that would make it easy to learn.

Luigi Zanasi wrote:

: Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
: Solid surface a la Corian or others?
: Paperstone?
: Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
: wood if not maple?
: Stone (granite, marble)?
: Others I missed?

I'm a big fan of laminate. In our new kitchen we're using gray laminate countertops from Ikea.
Look great, really easy to keep clean, totally non-absorbent, etc.
I'll be building a rolling cart with a butcherblock top, at some point.

-- Andy Barss

Edward Hennessey wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 5/05/11 10:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I
am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to
figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations?
What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under
the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted
30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real
advantage
is that?

Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

I can vouch for granite, put it in over ten years ago and still love
it.
Drop a hot pot or pan, no burned spots.
Baking is easy, and wipes up real quick, even kneading a dough on
it.
Typically don't put anything down for chopping either, it still
looks great.

Just a happy customer, although it may be extra expensive where you
are.

--
Froz...


Luigi.

FN is right. Granite can be satisfying. But
there are many kinds of granite. Some of the
most beautiful have a lot of feldspar or
mica. Avoid those.

Ask about how often you have to re-seal any
stone you are thinking about against water
or other fluid penetration. Ask what that entails
in effort, time and cost. Also, many stones have
areas and cracks sealed or filled with colored
resin. Ask about that. Don't be surprised if
salesmen don't or can't respond. Examine the
polished surface by moving along a low, raking angle,
looking for changes in light reflectivity. Areas
of duller shine call for closer examination.

A very fine-grained sandstone would be one
lapidary material to consider.

Porcelain tile with epoxy grout gives you many
choices, durability and repairability. Heavy drops
and burning metal objects can be problems.

Corian is great. No re-sealing necessary. Don't
try to cut it. Don't put red-hot things on it.

I have a hardwood insert with a perpendicular,
split fence at the border facing toward the center
of the kitchen. The fence works to keep drawn
cuts from escaping on to the countertop and it
is a handle too.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


dark granite.

Many granites are grained and have fissures. They are not glassy.
So if you get one - make sure the top is like glass. No indents.
Even if glassed over with a sealer - food will grow bad stuff there.

The best is the man made quartz. It is a strong and can be beautiful
to pure white.

We have a center of the kitchen table - rolling - small slab of granite
on it - pink granite. It has pores all over it. It is sealed but
there are still holes everywhere.

We protect it from direct food. Sad, we would have preferred a glassy
top. Such is life.

Martin

On 5/10/2011 12:26 AM, F Murtz wrote:
Edward Hennessey wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 5/05/11 10:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I
am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to
figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations?
What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under
the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted
30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real
advantage
is that?

Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

I can vouch for granite, put it in over ten years ago and still love
it.
Drop a hot pot or pan, no burned spots.
Baking is easy, and wipes up real quick, even kneading a dough on
it.
Typically don't put anything down for chopping either, it still
looks great.

Just a happy customer, although it may be extra expensive where you
are.

--
Froz...


Luigi.

FN is right. Granite can be satisfying. But
there are many kinds of granite. Some of the
most beautiful have a lot of feldspar or
mica. Avoid those.

Ask about how often you have to re-seal any
stone you are thinking about against water
or other fluid penetration. Ask what that entails
in effort, time and cost. Also, many stones have
areas and cracks sealed or filled with colored
resin. Ask about that. Don't be surprised if
salesmen don't or can't respond. Examine the
polished surface by moving along a low, raking angle,
looking for changes in light reflectivity. Areas
of duller shine call for closer examination.

A very fine-grained sandstone would be one
lapidary material to consider.

Porcelain tile with epoxy grout gives you many
choices, durability and repairability. Heavy drops
and burning metal objects can be problems.

Corian is great. No re-sealing necessary. Don't
try to cut it. Don't put red-hot things on it.

I have a hardwood insert with a perpendicular,
split fence at the border facing toward the center
of the kitchen. The fence works to keep drawn
cuts from escaping on to the countertop and it
is a handle too.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


dark granite.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...


"Josepi" wrote in message
MS seems to be into "hiding" things are that are not used frequently. I
like it but it makes a steep learning curve.

Not a steep learning curve. Trolls like you simply don't have the
intelligence that would make it easy to learn.


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&77

Always an asshole in every nym you use. Killfilter the jerk and let's get on
with it.

What are ya'? French or just stupid?


mike

mike