Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted 30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real advantage
is that?

Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

Luigi

On 5/05/11 10:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted 30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real advantage
is that?

Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

I can vouch for granite, put it in over ten years ago and still love it.
Drop a hot pot or pan, no burned spots.
Baking is easy, and wipes up real quick, even kneading a dough on it.
Typically don't put anything down for chopping either, it still looks great.

Just a happy customer, although it may be extra expensive where you are.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On Thu, 5 May 2011 07:56:21 -0700 (PDT), Luigi Zanasi
wrote:

Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted 30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real advantage
is that?

Dig out that burned or chipped area and inlay a nice pattern to
replace it. In 40 years with Formica, I've never caused more than a
1/4" chip in a countertop, and I work with tools on them all the time.


Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Don't be too ready. HINT: Do you wear gloves in your home in the
winter?


Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

You and I have similar tastes in laminates and wood for chopping block
areas. I plan on building a rolling wooden cart instead of an insert.
I prefer laminate because it's inexpensive, durable, and attractive.
It's also much safer to work on and comfortable to lean against. It's
cheap enough to change every few years if you get a wild hare, too.
My 12' section was under $200 and I spent about $30 to build the other
two 2x2' sections myself, with baltic birch ply, laminate, and solvent
based contact cement. Wilsonart Western Suede color. I still like it 9
years later. http://goo.gl/xWW75


Stone can look cool, even beautiful, but I really dislike the stuff as
a countertop. I've been in people's houses who have solid surface and
tile, and I have hated being in those kitchens. They're physically
COLD. You can't lean your butt or hands on them without freezing them
off (unless it's August in moderate climes and the windows are open).
If you even let a -tiny- slip happen with glass casseroles, kiss them
goodbye. Don't EVEN bump your head on one after picking up a dropped
piece of paper. DAMHIKT.

The solid plastics aren't quite as bad, but laminate tops warm to the
touch in seconds. I truly love that.

My choice was easy: synergistic vs. antagonistic materials.

--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

"FrozenNorth" wrote in message
...
On 5/05/11 10:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I
am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to
figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations?
What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under
the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted
30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real
advantage
is that?

Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

I can vouch for granite, put it in over ten years ago and still love
it.
Drop a hot pot or pan, no burned spots.
Baking is easy, and wipes up real quick, even kneading a dough on
it.
Typically don't put anything down for chopping either, it still
looks great.

Just a happy customer, although it may be extra expensive where you
are.

--
Froz...


Luigi.

FN is right. Granite can be satisfying. But
there are many kinds of granite. Some of the
most beautiful have a lot of feldspar or
mica. Avoid those.

Ask about how often you have to re-seal any
stone you are thinking about against water
or other fluid penetration. Ask what that entails
in effort, time and cost. Also, many stones have
areas and cracks sealed or filled with colored
resin. Ask about that. Don't be surprised if
salesmen don't or can't respond. Examine the
polished surface by moving along a low, raking angle,
looking for changes in light reflectivity. Areas
of duller shine call for closer examination.

A very fine-grained sandstone would be one
lapidary material to consider.

Porcelain tile with epoxy grout gives you many
choices, durability and repairability. Heavy drops
and burning metal objects can be problems.

Corian is great. No re-sealing necessary. Don't
try to cut it. Don't put red-hot things on it.

I have a hardwood insert with a perpendicular,
split fence at the border facing toward the center
of the kitchen. The fence works to keep drawn
cuts from escaping on to the countertop and it
is a handle too.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On May 5, 10:56*am, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted 30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real advantage
is that?

Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

Soapstone and hard maple go together well, and have complementary
features. They don't have a lot of the less desirable qualities of
other stones, and the only upkeep (which is optional) is a periodic
wipe down with mineral oil, same as the butcher block maple. Easy
peasy, and you can work the stone yourself without 'real' stone tools.

http://www.soapstones.com/diy_soapstone.html

R

On Thu, 05 May 2011 07:56:21 -0700, Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Note the plural.

Since the average American moves frequently, and the average house is not
built to last for very long, I wouldn't worry too much about longevity.
I like the looks of stone (or brick?) but claims that it will last
forever don't do much for me. The cabinets holding it up will
disintegrate a long time before the stone does :-).

And then there's cost, which you don't mention. Hard to beat laminate
there and it lasts long enough for me.

But based *only* on looks I'd go for tile or face brick.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Thu, 5 May 2011 07:56:21 -0700 (PDT), Luigi Zanasi
wrote:

Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Perhaps soapstone, I have been lead to believe wood working tools can
be used to work it.

Mark

On 5/05/11 12:41 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 5/05/11 10:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I
am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to
figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations?
What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under
the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted
30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real
advantage
is that?

Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

I can vouch for granite, put it in over ten years ago and still love
it.
Drop a hot pot or pan, no burned spots.
Baking is easy, and wipes up real quick, even kneading a dough on
it.
Typically don't put anything down for chopping either, it still
looks great.

Just a happy customer, although it may be extra expensive where you
are.


FN is right. Granite can be satisfying. But
there are many kinds of granite. Some of the
most beautiful have a lot of feldspar or
mica. Avoid those.

Exactly, I went to a local place that had hundreds of slabs, they were
rough cut, but finished and polished on two sides. I picked the piece I
wanted after having a pro come out and measure my kitchen. Couple days
later got the call it was ready, with the edge profile I wanted etc. It
was a good experience for me, YMMV.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 5/5/2011 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
....
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:
....

Depends on how much budget is the controlling factor (as always)

If cost is a consideration, laminate is cheaper and for the general
purpose counterttop works fine.

For solid material, my personal recommendation is the solid manmades a
la Corian, etc. We used a less expensive one that hadn't heard of
before but available at local distributor at about half the cost of
Corian. After several years (going on 4 or 5 now???), it's just fine.

For specialty areas such as chopping surfaces, bread/dough areas, wood
is good; end block for chopping, not for rolling. As for the latter
other than maple, any of the common non-open grain are fine--cherry,
birch, etc., ...

Some like the granite for the purpose, no direct experience there; I'm
not that keen on the stone in general as require more maintenance and
are often susceptible to damage from things like lemon juice, etc., that
the manmades aren't so much. Plus, of course, they tend to be pricey so
we're back to that again...

All in all, it's a personal preference thing; I think the deal w/ stone
now is mostly just a current fad that "this, too, will pass" as for the
big popularity.

--

Luigi Zanasi wrote in news:fd9ba000-7728-41d9-
:

Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted 30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real advantage
is that?

Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

Luigi

We put in Silestone some 10-12 years ago. It has held up remarkably
well. No problems with hot pans. We (actually she) use it as a cutting
board as well. No problem for knives or counter. Other than wiping with
soap and water there is no maintenance. Bleach should be fine too. In
contrast to granite there is no sealing required.

I was informed that it was much more expensive than granite now, but
don't know whether that is indeed so. Come and see it whenever you're
near Newark, NJ grin.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 5/5/11 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
Others I missed?


We're considering polished concrete.
It can be tinted and have any aggregate you like.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 5/05/11 3:10 PM, Han wrote:
Luigi wrote in news:fd9ba000-7728-41d9-
:

Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted 30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real advantage
is that?

Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

Luigi

We put in Silestone some 10-12 years ago. It has held up remarkably
well. No problems with hot pans. We (actually she) use it as a cutting
board as well. No problem for knives or counter. Other than wiping with
soap and water there is no maintenance. Bleach should be fine too. In
contrast to granite there is no sealing required.

I was informed that it was much more expensive than granite now, but
don't know whether that is indeed so. Come and see it whenever you're
near Newark, NJgrin.

Granite depending upon type and colour may not need as much sealing as
you suggest, ours is a dark green/black it may be different with lighter
colours. Over ten years old, still look great, seal it once every three
years or so, one is due soon.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

-MIKE- wrote:
On 5/5/11 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
Others I missed?


We're considering polished concrete.
It can be tinted and have any aggregate you like.

i did my own countertops for a patio bar. dead easy to do. the hard part is
flipping and installing by yourself. i used tempered glass chunks for my
aggregate. you can also have inserts of almost anything: i used cut slices
of minerals, but i've seen machine parts, shells, and other common things.

On 5/5/2011 2:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 5/5/11 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
Others I missed?


We're considering polished concrete.
It can be tinted and have any aggregate you like.


With granite, stone, concrete etc., I would check the floor joists to
make sure they can handle to load.

Just a thought.

Jim

On 5/05/11 3:49 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:


On 5/5/2011 2:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 5/5/11 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
Others I missed?


We're considering polished concrete.
It can be tinted and have any aggregate you like.


With granite, stone, concrete etc., I would check the floor joists to
make sure they can handle to load.

Just a thought.

Cancel the thought, you have a house of cards if that is an issue.


--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 5/5/2011 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted 30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real advantage
is that?

Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

Luigi

tell me about this "swing for the sketch-up library" thing.

thanks


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On May 5, 1:33 pm, FrozenNorth
wrote:

Exactly, I went to a local place that had hundreds of slabs, they were
rough cut, but finished and polished on two sides. I picked the piece I
wanted after having a pro come out and measure my kitchen. Couple days
later got the call it was ready, with the edge profile I wanted etc. It
was a good experience for me, YMMV.

The slabs were polished on both sides? That's really odd. It would
bump up the price of the slab appreciably and one side is hidden.
I've only seen slabs polished on one side. Why would they go to all
of that extra work when one side is never going to be seen?

R

On 5/05/11 5:03 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On May 5, 1:33 pm,
wrote:

Exactly, I went to a local place that had hundreds of slabs, they were
rough cut, but finished and polished on two sides. I picked the piece I
wanted after having a pro come out and measure my kitchen. Couple days
later got the call it was ready, with the edge profile I wanted etc. It
was a good experience for me, YMMV.

The slabs were polished on both sides? That's really odd. It would
bump up the price of the slab appreciably and one side is hidden.
I've only seen slabs polished on one side. Why would they go to all
of that extra work when one side is never going to be seen?

Not sure, now you mention it, but I got to pick the show side. :-)
There was a minor difference.
--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On May 5, 4:03*pm, FrozenNorth
wrote:
On 5/05/11 3:49 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
On 5/5/2011 2:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 5/5/11 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Others I missed?

We're considering polished concrete.
It can be tinted and have any aggregate you like.

With granite, stone, concrete etc., I would check the floor joists to
make sure they can handle to load.

Just a thought.

Cancel the thought, you have a house of cards if that is an issue.

Structural failure isn't a real concern, but increased load =
increased bounce, and that can be annoying. If the weight is added
around the perimeter of the room it's rarely if ever an issue. A
large cabinet island with a stone or concrete top in the middle of the
room can make things bouncy. Rattling dishes yell 'cheap
construction' whether that's the case or not.

It is good practice to double check the situation with the floor
joists. Yahoo plumbers might have taken a 3" notch out of the bottom
of some joists instead of drilling a two inch hole. I've seen similar
things too many times.

R

"FrozenNorth" wrote in message
I've only seen slabs polished on one side. Why would they go to all
of that extra work when one side is never going to be seen?

Not sure, now you mention it, but I got to pick the show side. :-)
There was a minor difference.

Maybe the piece was originally destined for a setting where both sides would
be visible when in use? Or perhaps, they polished one side and then decided
the pattern on the other side was more interesting. Who knows?

On 5/05/11 5:22 PM, Upscale wrote:
wrote in message
I've only seen slabs polished on one side. Why would they go to all
of that extra work when one side is never going to be seen?

Not sure, now you mention it, but I got to pick the show side. :-)
There was a minor difference.

Maybe the piece was originally destined for a setting where both sides would
be visible when in use? Or perhaps, they polished one side and then decided
the pattern on the other side was more interesting. Who knows?

It was a while back, so I can't say for sure they all were polished both
sides, this particular piece was.
--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 5/05/11 5:18 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On May 5, 4:03 pm,
wrote:
On 5/05/11 3:49 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
On 5/5/2011 2:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 5/5/11 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Others I missed?

We're considering polished concrete.
It can be tinted and have any aggregate you like.

With granite, stone, concrete etc., I would check the floor joists to
make sure they can handle to load.

Just a thought.

Cancel the thought, you have a house of cards if that is an issue.

Structural failure isn't a real concern, but increased load =
increased bounce, and that can be annoying. If the weight is added
around the perimeter of the room it's rarely if ever an issue. A
large cabinet island with a stone or concrete top in the middle of the
room can make things bouncy. Rattling dishes yell 'cheap
construction' whether that's the case or not.

It is good practice to double check the situation with the floor
joists. Yahoo plumbers might have taken a 3" notch out of the bottom
of some joists instead of drilling a two inch hole. I've seen similar
things too many times.

Point taken, in my case it was a perimeter installation in a galley
style kitchen.
I have a basement, and full access to inspect the joists below as that
is the laundry/furnace area, house was built 60 years ago, nice solid
wood joists.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

"FrozenNorth" wrote in message
It was a while back, so I can't say for sure they all were polished both
sides, this particular piece was.

That reminds me of a home improvement show I viewed some months ago. The
home owner picked out of piece of granite for his kitchen and sent it off to
be cut and polished. When it was delivered, he realized he'd told the
granite company to polish the wrong side. Since the piece of granite he had
picked out was cut with a shortened 45 degree bend in it, the polished side
up had the bend going 180 degrees in the wrong direction. The home owner
lucked out though. Someone else like the faulty piece enough that they
bought it for just a little less then retail cost.

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
...

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Stone/granite is obviously front runner these days. Laminate totally
adequate if vulnerable to moisture when the core is chipboard. Wood though
is the best if you are comfortable with it and you wouldn't be here if you
weren't.

A real butchers Block is end grain so that the butcher can wallop it with a
chopper every day without chunks falling out of it. No domestic worktop has
to take that treatment so it is only for show and looks in the home. They do
look nice, but beware shrinkage, expansion, fixing method, and gaps opening
up at the edges.

Beech was always the preferred wood for food preparation items like boards,
table tops, spoons rolling pins. AFAICT that is because it has no taste or
smell, it has no unhygenic open pores so can be scraped and scrubbed clean,
it is resistant to splitting, It isn't high in tannins, it is inexpensive
for a utilitarian purpose and available in big widths. It's disadvantage is
that it has a high degree ov movement in service from variation in moisture
content. A lot of old tables and butchers blocks needed washing down with
water daily to prevent shrinkage.

Maple has a lot of the same qualities as beech but is a prettier wood with
less movement. That makes it preferable.

For wet areas teak or Iroko is the thing. They are so stable that with the
right adhesives, careful strong fixing and judicious use of gaps filled with
silicone you can make a surface which is totally impervious to water, a
complete leak proof wet area. Cool. Looks fine oiled or greyed.

HTH
Tim W

BTW I liked grey slate too. It's cheaper than granite, very soft but wears
and scratches in a pleasing way over the years.

On May 5, 3:05*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 5/5/2011 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:





Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted 30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real advantage
is that?

Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

Luigi

tell me about this "swing for the sketch-up library" thing.

thanks


That's Swingman's (our resident sketch-p expert) sketch-up library I
should have said "3d-warehouse"at

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehou...3981&scoring=m

Luigi

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
...
Note the plural. For someon who is into wooddorking and cooking, I am
somewhat ashame to say that I have a 30-year old completely
inefficient kitchen that is now falling apart. I am designing a new
one (thanks Swing for the sketch-up library) and am trying to figure
out what to use for counter tops.

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?

Right now I'm inclined towards high pressure laminate with maybe a
wood section, or a separate bread/pastaboard that could slip under the
counter like my father did many years ago. The Arborite has lasted 30
years in my kitchen with only a couple of ugly spots. I realize the
solid surface stuff can be repaired, but how much of a real advantage
is that?

Note that these are just my initial thoughts and am quite open to
being convinced otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

Luigi


IMHO it's tile hands down. Easy to install, if you get a chip (I dropped a
cast iron skillet once) it's easy to replace just that tile.
Variety of colors, very durable (my countertops are 25 years old and still
look good)
I've heard complaints from some about the grout looking bad but I sealed
mine and it's a dark grout besides. Still looks good.
I can e-mail photos if you're interested.

Max

On May 5, 10:56*am, Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?

Not all laminates are created equal..in fact, far from it.
Assuming they have a colour/pattern you like, Wilsonart AEON series is
unbeatable for performance. Awesome stuff.
http://www.wilsonartcontract.com/Laminate/AEON/

Solid surface a la Corian or others?

No visible seams, refinish-able, any kind of edge treatment you could
wish for.
Doesn't like high heat, scratches which will be visible on darker
colours, but still refinish-able.


Paperstone?

Stupid money for a very scratchable product. The answer to the
question nobody asked.

Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What wood if not maple?

Buy it from a pro...like John Boos. Expensive but pretty. DO avoid
bamboo!

Stone (granite, marble)?

Definitely not marble. Too soft and porous. Awesome colours though.
Granite is all over the place. It can be soft, like a sponge, hard as
a hooker's heart, can be stunning to look at. No warranty, seams are
germ-traps. Buyer beware as there is a lot of sub-standard granite
around. The good ones are always expensive... always.

Others I missed?

Quartz, like Silestone, Hanstone, Ceasar Stone, DuPont Zodiaq,
Cambria.
Bar none my favourite in terms of colours, durability, seams can be
very inconspicuous. Most carry a 10 year warranty and some even 15
yrs. Excellent stuff. Expensive.
..
..
..
BUT... cold to the touch, something that bugs me as much as it does C-
Less. THAT is why I have Corian at my house. It is a lot warmer and I
got it for free. *smirk*
If I had to do that over again, in this house?
A custom top (sheets can be 5x12ft approx $ 200.00) Wilsonart AEON
General Purpose thickness laminated on waterproof MDF with a wood or
Corian edge. Cheap, lightweight and if you use water based contact
adhesive... and yes there are good ones out there, you're pretty green
to boot.

You do give up the undermounted sink.

On May 5, 6:43*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On May 5, 10:56*am, Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?

Not all laminates are created equal..in fact, far from it.
Assuming they have a colour/pattern you like, Wilsonart AEON series is
unbeatable for performance. Awesome stuff.http://www.wilsonartcontract.com/Laminate/AEON/

Solid surface a la Corian or others?

*No visible seams, refinish-able, any kind of edge treatment you could
wish for.
Doesn't like high heat, scratches which will be visible on darker
colours, but still refinish-able.

Paperstone?

Stupid money for a very scratchable product. The answer to the
question nobody asked.

Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What wood if not maple?

Buy it from a pro...like John Boos. Expensive but pretty. DO avoid
bamboo!

Stone (granite, marble)?

Definitely not marble. Too soft and porous. Awesome colours though.
Granite is all over the place. It can be soft, like a sponge, hard as
a hooker's heart, can be stunning to look at. No warranty, seams are
germ-traps. Buyer beware as there is a lot of sub-standard granite
around. The good ones are always expensive... always.

Others I missed?

Quartz, like Silestone, Hanstone, Ceasar Stone, DuPont Zodiaq,
Cambria.
Bar none my favourite in terms of colours, durability, seams can be
very inconspicuous. Most carry a 10 year warranty and some even 15
yrs. Excellent stuff. Expensive.
.
.
.
BUT... cold to the touch, something that bugs me as much as it does C-
Less. THAT is why I have Corian at my house. It is a lot warmer and I
got it for free. *smirk*
If I had to do that over again, in this house?
A custom top (sheets can be 5x12ft approx $ 200.00) Wilsonart AEON
General Purpose thickness laminated on waterproof MDF with a wood or
Corian edge. Cheap, lightweight and if you use water based contact
adhesive... and yes there are good ones out there, you're pretty green
to boot.

You do give up the undermounted sink.

3M makes an excellent waterbased contact cement,
but this stuff is getting rave reviews.
http://tinyurl.com/438pgq8

"Upscale" wrote in message
...


.... The home owner picked out of piece of granite for his kitchen and
sent it off to be cut and polished. When it was delivered, he realized
he'd told the granite company to polish the wrong side. ....


I used to work in the kitchen trade. a business aquaintance told me how they
had supplied a very expensive upmarket kitchen which had a big oldfashioned
white china double sink under granite worktops. The customer had chosen a
pair of taps she liked so they had the granite drilled before installation,
the granite installers came and fixed it all down, the plumber came to fix
and connect the taps and the sink, the tilers, the electrician, the
snagging, the cleaning etc then handover day, client arrives, designer
salesman is showing off how everything works and realises that the hot tap
runs into the left hand bowl and the cold tap runs into the right hand bowl.
Nobody had thought to say no to the client's choice of taps on the grounds
that they needed a mixer. Red faces and a lot of rectifying.

Tim W

On 5/5/2011 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

Rob nailed it ...

As far as using more than one material, that can really take it out of
the realm of ordinary. An example is an ultra modern kitchen we're just
finishing up that has two colors of 3/4" Caesar Stone, 2 1/4" John Boos
end grain maple butcher block, and a laminate back splash.

https://picasaweb.google.com/karlcai...75169640816674

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On May 5, 7:31*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 5/5/2011 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

Rob nailed it ...

As far as using more than one material, that can really take it out of
the realm of ordinary. An example is an ultra modern kitchen we're just
finishing up that has two colors of 3/4" Caesar Stone, 2 1/4" John Boos
end grain maple butcher block, and a laminate back splash.

https://picasaweb.google.com/karlcai...henShopPicture...


Dear Penthouse:

I never thought something like this would ever happen to me, but every
time I look at Swing's kitchen pictures, I get a woody when I get to
the shot of the gas range. Should I consult my therapist?

"Robatoy" wrote

Dear Penthouse:

I never thought something like this would ever happen to me, but every
time I look at Swing's kitchen pictures, I get a woody when I get to
the shot of the gas range. Should I consult my therapist?

What does she look like? And does she share your fetish with avant garde
kitchens?

Swingman wrote in
:

On 5/5/2011 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

Rob nailed it ...

As far as using more than one material, that can really take it out of
the realm of ordinary. An example is an ultra modern kitchen we're
just finishing up that has two colors of 3/4" Caesar Stone, 2 1/4"
John Boos end grain maple butcher block, and a laminate back splash.

https://picasaweb.google.com/karlcai...nShopPictures?
authkey=Gv1sRgCIaJgYOqgKvOVw#5603375169640816674

Awesome, Karl!
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Thu, 5 May 2011 15:43:39 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On May 5, 10:56*am, Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?

Not all laminates are created equal..in fact, far from it.
Assuming they have a colour/pattern you like, Wilsonart AEON series is
unbeatable for performance. Awesome stuff.
http://www.wilsonartcontract.com/Laminate/AEON/


Glad to hear that. My daughter just had Wilsonart AEON High
Definition countertops installed last Saturday.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 5/5/2011 9:56 AM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Note the plural. Maybe there is one best overall material, but I am
not necessarily averse to using more than one.

Rob nailed it ...

As far as using more than one material, that can really take it out
of the realm of ordinary. An example is an ultra modern kitchen
we're just finishing up that has two colors of 3/4" Caesar Stone, 2
1/4" John Boos end grain maple butcher block, and a laminate back
splash.

https://picasaweb.google.com/karlcai...75169640816674

KC:

I'll confess: you did super.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On May 5, 6:43*pm, Robatoy wrote:

If I had to do that over again, in this house?
A custom top (sheets can be 5x12ft approx $ 200.00) Wilsonart AEON
General Purpose thickness laminated on waterproof MDF with a wood or
Corian edge.

Why Corian instead of AEON for the edge?

R

On May 5, 5:35*pm, FrozenNorth
wrote:
On 5/05/11 5:22 PM, Upscale wrote: *wrote in message
I've only seen slabs polished on one side. *Why would they go to all
of that extra work when one side is never going to be seen?

Not sure, now you mention it, but I got to pick the show side. *:-)
There was a minor difference.

Maybe the piece was originally destined for a setting where both sides would
be visible when in use? Or perhaps, they polished one side and then decided
the pattern on the other side was more interesting. Who knows?

It was a while back, so I can't say for sure they all were polished both
sides, this particular piece was.

Fair enough. The only application that comes to mind for a two-sided
polished slab in a typical countertop thickness stone would be
something like a toilet partition. I remember reading about a
Georgian quarry that supplied the institutional-standard toilet
partitions for a large part of the country back in the 30's and 40's.
I have no idea what makes a particular quarry's stone better for
partitions, but I could understand a place like that might be in the
habit of polishing both sides as standard.

R

So what would you use in an ideal kithcen:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?
Solid surface a la Corian or others?
Paperstone?
Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What
wood if not maple?
Stone (granite, marble)?
Others I missed?


Concrete. They do it all the time on the DIY channel.

-Zz

On May 5, 9:37*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 5, 6:43*pm, Robatoy wrote:



If I had to do that over again, in this house?
A custom top (sheets can be 5x12ft approx $ 200.00) Wilsonart AEON
General Purpose thickness laminated on waterproof MDF with a wood or
Corian edge.

Why Corian instead of AEON for the edge?

R

Decorative reason? Also, you can bend Corian around corner and create
a radius. If you do that with HPL, you have to have a sharp edge. With
wood or Corian you can follow a radius around a radius.
Also refinish-able and more durable.... and super cool looking if you
hit the right colours.

On Thu, 5 May 2011 15:55:02 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On May 5, 6:43Â*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On May 5, 10:56Â*am, Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Arborite/Formical/High pressure laminate?

Not all laminates are created equal..in fact, far from it.
Assuming they have a colour/pattern you like, Wilsonart AEON series is
unbeatable for performance. Awesome stuff.http://www.wilsonartcontract.com/Laminate/AEON/

Solid surface a la Corian or others?

Â*No visible seams, refinish-able, any kind of edge treatment you could
wish for.
Doesn't like high heat, scratches which will be visible on darker
colours, but still refinish-able.

Paperstone?

Stupid money for a very scratchable product. The answer to the
question nobody asked.

Wood - vertical "real" butcher block or horizontal laminations? What wood if not maple?

Buy it from a pro...like John Boos. Expensive but pretty. DO avoid
bamboo!

Stone (granite, marble)?

Definitely not marble. Too soft and porous. Awesome colours though.
Granite is all over the place. It can be soft, like a sponge, hard as
a hooker's heart, can be stunning to look at. No warranty, seams are
germ-traps. Buyer beware as there is a lot of sub-standard granite
around. The good ones are always expensive... always.

Others I missed?

Quartz, like Silestone, Hanstone, Ceasar Stone, DuPont Zodiaq,
Cambria.
Bar none my favourite in terms of colours, durability, seams can be
very inconspicuous. Most carry a 10 year warranty and some even 15
yrs. Excellent stuff. Expensive.
.
.
.
BUT... cold to the touch, something that bugs me as much as it does C-
Less. THAT is why I have Corian at my house. It is a lot warmer and I
got it for free. *smirk*
If I had to do that over again, in this house?
A custom top (sheets can be 5x12ft approx $ 200.00) Wilsonart AEON
General Purpose thickness laminated on waterproof MDF with a wood or
Corian edge. Cheap, lightweight and if you use water based contact
adhesive... and yes there are good ones out there, you're pretty green
to boot.

You do give up the undermounted sink.

3M makes an excellent waterbased contact cement,
but this stuff is getting rave reviews.
http://tinyurl.com/438pgq8

I had bad luck with the one can of green DAP waterborne contact
cement. Their red solvent-based stuff is fantastic. I like to be green
when possible, but when the eco stuff is twice as pricy and doesn't
work as well, I'm unhappy. The green DAP is almost as expensive as
the 3M. I'll see if it's any good, to confirm the rave reviews you
tout, the next time I laminate.

--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill