I know this is OT for this group. But I also know there are several
here who are resourceful enough to have done something similar.

We own a 5000/6260 Watt generator that is used for temporary emergency
service during electrical outages. In our area (SE Kansas). Outages
related to thunderstorms and ice storms are fairly common. Outages
can last from a couple of hours to more than a day.

Being a lot Irish, I really don't want to spring for the full $600 -
$1,000+ plus for a full up transfer switch installation. A am also
opposed to the old Dryer Plug approach. Remembering to isolate the
house with main breakers might work now; but as our brains age it
looks like a good way to kill a lineman. Here are needs and a
proposed approach:

Main Needs a
1) Sump Pump main control circuit (basement)
2) Backup Sump Pump battery charger circuit (basement)
3) Furnace (central heat NOT air conditioning - basement)
4) Freezer (basement)
5) Refrigerator (main floor)

These five items are well within normal and surge capacity of the
generator so I should have some capacity to run a few lamps.

Planned Approach:

1) Install a standard four prong female generator connection box so
that 10/4 wire passes directly through the sill plate of the house.
This will be done outside, or just inside of the garage door. (In
either case the generator will, of course, be located well away from
the house).

2) The 10/4 wire, from the box, will enter the basement and be routed
down to about four feet above the floor via conduit.

3) At the bottom of the wire/conduit I will install a fourplex box and
split the circuit into two 120v circuits with a standard two-plug
receptacle on each. This will serve items 1) through 4) above via
direct connection or extension cords. The longest cord run will be
15-20'

This circuit will be "dumb" and will not be hooked to the main house
circuit.

When needed, we will move the generator outside of the garage and use
a standard 4-blade, 30 amp, 30' generator cord to connect the
generator to the dumb circuit which will serve basement needs. The
fridge and lights will be served by a couple of the four standard 120v
circuits on the generator.

Anyone else done something similar - or better? I do want to keep
cost down and keep it safe. But it is a solution that MIGHT get used
once every year or so.

Thanks
RonB

On Sat, 23 Apr 2011 12:27:08 -0700 (PDT), RonB
wrote:

I know this is OT for this group. But I also know there are several
here who are resourceful enough to have done something similar.

We own a 5000/6260 Watt generator that is used for temporary emergency
service during electrical outages. In our area (SE Kansas). Outages
related to thunderstorms and ice storms are fairly common. Outages
can last from a couple of hours to more than a day.

Being a lot Irish, I really don't want to spring for the full $600 -
$1,000+ plus for a full up transfer switch installation. A am also
opposed to the old Dryer Plug approach. Remembering to isolate the
house with main breakers might work now; but as our brains age it
looks like a good way to kill a lineman. Here are needs and a
proposed approach:

Main Needs a
1) Sump Pump main control circuit (basement)
2) Backup Sump Pump battery charger circuit (basement)
3) Furnace (central heat NOT air conditioning - basement)
4) Freezer (basement)
5) Refrigerator (main floor)

These five items are well within normal and surge capacity of the
generator so I should have some capacity to run a few lamps.

Planned Approach:

1) Install a standard four prong female generator connection box so
that 10/4 wire passes directly through the sill plate of the house.
This will be done outside, or just inside of the garage door. (In
either case the generator will, of course, be located well away from
the house).

2) The 10/4 wire, from the box, will enter the basement and be routed
down to about four feet above the floor via conduit.

3) At the bottom of the wire/conduit I will install a fourplex box and
split the circuit into two 120v circuits with a standard two-plug
receptacle on each. This will serve items 1) through 4) above via
direct connection or extension cords. The longest cord run will be
15-20'

This circuit will be "dumb" and will not be hooked to the main house
circuit.

When needed, we will move the generator outside of the garage and use
a standard 4-blade, 30 amp, 30' generator cord to connect the
generator to the dumb circuit which will serve basement needs. The
fridge and lights will be served by a couple of the four standard 120v
circuits on the generator.

Anyone else done something similar - or better? I do want to keep
cost down and keep it safe. But it is a solution that MIGHT get used
once every year or so.

Thanks
RonB

I would suggest a Gen-Tran 6 circuit switch. It wires into the main
switch box and has double throw switches to select mains or generator
for each circuit. You can't get the switching wrong.

For a 30 amp unit, expect to spend about $300. If you're OK doing
mains wiring, it's a simple installation. (I live in a county that
allows a homeowner to do their own constrction/electrical/etc work, it
just has to pass inspection.)

John

"RonB" wrote in message
...
I know this is OT for this group. But I also know there are several
here who are resourceful enough to have done something similar.

We own a 5000/6260 Watt generator that is used for temporary emergency
service during electrical outages. In our area (SE Kansas). Outages
related to thunderstorms and ice storms are fairly common. Outages
can last from a couple of hours to more than a day.

Being a lot Irish, I really don't want to spring for the full $600 -
$1,000+ plus for a full up transfer switch installation. A am also
opposed to the old Dryer Plug approach. Remembering to isolate the
house with main breakers might work now; but as our brains age it
looks like a good way to kill a lineman. Here are needs and a
proposed approach:

Main Needs a
1) Sump Pump main control circuit (basement)
2) Backup Sump Pump battery charger circuit (basement)
3) Furnace (central heat NOT air conditioning - basement)
4) Freezer (basement)
5) Refrigerator (main floor)

These five items are well within normal and surge capacity of the
generator so I should have some capacity to run a few lamps.

Planned Approach:

1) Install a standard four prong female generator connection box so
that 10/4 wire passes directly through the sill plate of the house.
This will be done outside, or just inside of the garage door. (In
either case the generator will, of course, be located well away from
the house).

2) The 10/4 wire, from the box, will enter the basement and be routed
down to about four feet above the floor via conduit.

3) At the bottom of the wire/conduit I will install a fourplex box and
split the circuit into two 120v circuits with a standard two-plug
receptacle on each. This will serve items 1) through 4) above via
direct connection or extension cords. The longest cord run will be
15-20'

This circuit will be "dumb" and will not be hooked to the main house
circuit.

When needed, we will move the generator outside of the garage and use
a standard 4-blade, 30 amp, 30' generator cord to connect the
generator to the dumb circuit which will serve basement needs. The
fridge and lights will be served by a couple of the four standard 120v
circuits on the generator.

Anyone else done something similar - or better? I do want to keep
cost down and keep it safe. But it is a solution that MIGHT get used
once every year or so.

Thanks
RonB

Thought I sent this before but it did not go through. 2nd try. I am putting
in a generator that will run on propane for fuel. Remote start. Will add
outlet next to existing outlets for refrigerator, freezer, and heating
system. Easy switch over. Just move the plugs from one outlet to another.
WW

So in essence you are putting a partial duplicate electrical system that
will only be fed from your aux. generator. No cross-connects at all.
Sounds reasonable to me. Of course I'm just a retired firefighter, not an
electrician.

I have a couple of systems. First is a small generator that will run a
couple of extension cords into the house for lighting purposes on a
temporary basis. Second is the Dryer Plug approach. I have placed a
"cockpit check list" in a place where I cannot lose it and I periodically
review it. When hooking up my larger generator to the dryer plug I refer to
the checklist and go item by item with second person (wife) verifying each
step. Electrical outages in my area of the country are quite rare and
seldom more than a few minutes. Flashlights and fresh batteries are located
in each bathroom, the kitchen, nightstands, and the garage.


"RonB" wrote in message
...
I know this is OT for this group. But I also know there are several
here who are resourceful enough to have done something similar.

We own a 5000/6260 Watt generator that is used for temporary emergency
service during electrical outages. In our area (SE Kansas). Outages
related to thunderstorms and ice storms are fairly common. Outages
can last from a couple of hours to more than a day.

Being a lot Irish, I really don't want to spring for the full $600 -
$1,000+ plus for a full up transfer switch installation. A am also
opposed to the old Dryer Plug approach. Remembering to isolate the
house with main breakers might work now; but as our brains age it
looks like a good way to kill a lineman. Here are needs and a
proposed approach:

Main Needs a
1) Sump Pump main control circuit (basement)
2) Backup Sump Pump battery charger circuit (basement)
3) Furnace (central heat NOT air conditioning - basement)
4) Freezer (basement)
5) Refrigerator (main floor)

These five items are well within normal and surge capacity of the
generator so I should have some capacity to run a few lamps.

Planned Approach:

1) Install a standard four prong female generator connection box so
that 10/4 wire passes directly through the sill plate of the house.
This will be done outside, or just inside of the garage door. (In
either case the generator will, of course, be located well away from
the house).

2) The 10/4 wire, from the box, will enter the basement and be routed
down to about four feet above the floor via conduit.

3) At the bottom of the wire/conduit I will install a fourplex box and
split the circuit into two 120v circuits with a standard two-plug
receptacle on each. This will serve items 1) through 4) above via
direct connection or extension cords. The longest cord run will be
15-20'

This circuit will be "dumb" and will not be hooked to the main house
circuit.

When needed, we will move the generator outside of the garage and use
a standard 4-blade, 30 amp, 30' generator cord to connect the
generator to the dumb circuit which will serve basement needs. The
fridge and lights will be served by a couple of the four standard 120v
circuits on the generator.

Anyone else done something similar - or better? I do want to keep
cost down and keep it safe. But it is a solution that MIGHT get used
once every year or so.

Thanks
RonB

"Anyone else done something similar - or better? *I do want to keep
cost down and keep it safe. *But it is a solution that MIGHT get used
once every year or so."

You either need a backup generator system or you don't.

If you need one, you don't need a jury-rigged system that could prove
dangerous - even life-threatening.

The transfer switch solution has been around for years. It was
designed to do just what you need - by professionals who, faced with
the same contingencies and requirements, came up with a safe, reliable
and simple to use solution "NEW GENTRAN 3028 8-CIRCUIT AMP TRANSFER
SWITCH 7500 WATTS $229" or similar.

When you're done, you will have a safe, simple system you can be proud
of and it will be a selling point should you decide to move - instead
of a liability.

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 19:51:42 -0700 (PDT), Hoosierpopi
wrote:

"Anyone else done something similar - or better? *I do want to keep
cost down and keep it safe. *But it is a solution that MIGHT get used
once every year or so."

You either need a backup generator system or you don't.

If you need one, you don't need a jury-rigged system that could prove
dangerous - even life-threatening.

The transfer switch solution has been around for years. It was
designed to do just what you need - by professionals who, faced with
the same contingencies and requirements, came up with a safe, reliable
and simple to use solution "NEW GENTRAN 3028 8-CIRCUIT AMP TRANSFER
SWITCH 7500 WATTS $229" or similar.

When you're done, you will have a safe, simple system you can be proud
of and it will be a selling point should you decide to move - instead
of a liability.


We typically have only a few minutes of power outage a year as most of
the wiring is underground, but high winds can bring down trees along
the aerial wiring section (about 3/4 mile) that goes from the
neighborhood entrance to the substation.

Last summer we had some 60-70mph winds that took down a number of
trees along the aerial route and power was out 16 hours. This was in
July, so I had the small generator (1850 watts) running to keep the
fridge and freezer cool.

My setup has a 4 circuit Gen-Tran switch (furnace, fridge, one wall of
the kitchen, one not yet used). If I need more power than the small
generator can handle (such as furnace + fridge + microwave oven) I
connect the 5000 watt generator.

John

Hoosierpopi wrote:
"Anyone else done something similar - or better? I do want to keep
cost down and keep it safe. But it is a solution that MIGHT get used
once every year or so."

You either need a backup generator system or you don't.

If you need one, you don't need a jury-rigged system that could prove
dangerous - even life-threatening.

To be fair, there is nothing dangerous or even life threatening in what the
OP provided. It may not be at all elegant, and may in fact be a royal pain
in the butt to use, but it is no more dangerous or even life threatening
than plugging in a refregerator at your house.


The transfer switch solution has been around for years. It was
designed to do just what you need - by professionals who, faced with
the same contingencies and requirements, came up with a safe, reliable
and simple to use solution "NEW GENTRAN 3028 8-CIRCUIT AMP TRANSFER
SWITCH 7500 WATTS $229" or similar.

When you're done, you will have a safe, simple system you can be proud
of and it will be a selling point should you decide to move - instead
of a liability.

I agree that it would be a better selling point than the proposed
implementation of the OP, but again - I don't think that his system would
necessarily be a liability. It's really no different than a simple
generator in the back yard with the factory supplied extension cord. Not
convenient, but not a liability.

--

-Mike-

"Ralph Compton" wrote in message
m...
So in essence you are putting a partial duplicate electrical system that
will only be fed from your aux. generator. No cross-connects at all.
Sounds reasonable to me. Of course I'm just a retired firefighter, not an
electrician.

Reply to Ralph

When I was an Electric Utility worker. We also answered calls for partial
outages in homes. On one, the dining room would blow screw fuses. (very old
home about 1900) I removed the light fixture and found the incoming wires
all connected together. Customer had just had room painted and the painter
removed and reinstalled the fixture. When ever on a call to homes that had
screw fuses I always removed ALL fuses and checked for pennies under fuses
that defeated the operation of a fuse. BINGO this time it had a INDIAN HEAD
penny. Customer lucky they never had a short on that circuit. How long that
penny was there, who knows. WW

How often do you plug in a suicide cord?

The OP explained this but you didn't listen.

---------------------

"Morgans" wrote in message ...

You got to be kidding. You mean you can't plug an adapter into a plug,
connect a cord, turn off the main breaker, and start a generator, reliably?
You should not be trusted with a wood shop, if you can't. There are many
more ways to threaten your life using power tools.

Gang, don't listen to this load of horse crap, unless you have so much money
laying around that you want to waste it buying transfer systems you don't
need.

Also, everyone, it could be that we have been trolled. Hoosier _poopie_ is
a close, but better name for the poster.

---------------------
"Hoosierpopi" wrote
You either need a backup generator system or you don't.

If you need one, you don't need a jury-rigged system that could prove
dangerous - even life-threatening.

J. Clarke wrote:

If one forgets the main breaker the life one costs may not be one's
own.

This issue isn't danger to yourself, it's danger to the guy fixing the
power line that he expects to be cold.


You make a good point, but I would expect the power-line worker to take
extraordinary precautions when working on lines that may be hot.*

Look, he's up on a pole with the combined noise of 50 generators roaring at
him.

Hello! That's what we in the pet grooming business call "A Clue!"

-------------------
* Good idea/Invention time: How about a linesman's glove that has one of
those live circuit detectors? If about to put his (gloved) hand on a wire, a
light would flash and a teeny speaker would go "tweedle-tweedle-tweedle,
murder-kill-dead, tweedle-tweedle-tweedle..."

On 4/26/11 12:20 PM, HeyBub wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

If one forgets the main breaker the life one costs may not be one's
own.

This issue isn't danger to yourself, it's danger to the guy fixing the
power line that he expects to be cold.


You make a good point, but I would expect the power-line worker to take
extraordinary precautions when working on lines that may be hot.*

Look, he's up on a pole with the combined noise of 50 generators roaring at
him.

Hello! That's what we in the pet grooming business call "A Clue!"

-------------------
* Good idea/Invention time: How about a linesman's glove that has one of
those live circuit detectors? If about to put his (gloved) hand on a wire, a
light would flash and a teeny speaker would go "tweedle-tweedle-tweedle,
murder-kill-dead, tweedle-tweedle-tweedle..."


That might make sense, but sometimes they do work with live wires. Had
a floating neutral at my house several years ago, they came and fixed it
with live wires.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

"J. Clarke" wrote

If one forgets the main breaker the life one costs may not be one's own.

This issue isn't danger to yourself, it's danger to the guy fixing the
power line that he expects to be cold.

***********************
My WHOLE POINT is that it isn't hard to forget to turn off a main breaker
and connect a cord correctly and it isn't hard to do the whole thing safely.
It isn't.

It is a whole lot easier than running power tools around your fingers,
safely.

Come on, people. Some of you are sounding too much like the lawyers that
have make our society put warning stickers on drive shafts, and stuff like
warnings on burners saying that they are hot. DUH! ! !

-- Jim in NC

On 4/26/11 1:58 PM, Morgans wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote

If one forgets the main breaker the life one costs may not be one's own.

This issue isn't danger to yourself, it's danger to the guy fixing the
power line that he expects to be cold.

***********************
My WHOLE POINT is that it isn't hard to forget to turn off a main
breaker and connect a cord correctly and it isn't hard to do the whole
thing safely. It isn't.

It is a whole lot easier than running power tools around your fingers,
safely.

Come on, people. Some of you are sounding too much like the lawyers that
have make our society put warning stickers on drive shafts, and stuff
like warnings on burners saying that they are hot. DUH! ! !

As long as you *never* have an electrical inspection, sell the house and
have a home inspection, or live there till you die or go senile. (which
may happen on the same day).

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

In article , frozenNorth123
@gm.nospam.ail.com says...

On 4/26/11 12:20 PM, HeyBub wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

If one forgets the main breaker the life one costs may not be one's
own.

This issue isn't danger to yourself, it's danger to the guy fixing the
power line that he expects to be cold.


You make a good point, but I would expect the power-line worker to take
extraordinary precautions when working on lines that may be hot.*

Look, he's up on a pole with the combined noise of 50 generators roaring at
him.

Hello! That's what we in the pet grooming business call "A Clue!"

-------------------
* Good idea/Invention time: How about a linesman's glove that has one of
those live circuit detectors? If about to put his (gloved) hand on a wire, a
light would flash and a teeny speaker would go "tweedle-tweedle-tweedle,
murder-kill-dead, tweedle-tweedle-tweedle..."


That might make sense, but sometimes they do work with live wires. Had
a floating neutral at my house several years ago, they came and fixed it
with live wires.

Yep, they can and do work with live wires, but it helps if they know
that they're live.

In article ,
says...

"J. Clarke" wrote

If one forgets the main breaker the life one costs may not be one's own.

This issue isn't danger to yourself, it's danger to the guy fixing the
power line that he expects to be cold.

***********************
My WHOLE POINT is that it isn't hard to forget to turn off a main breaker
and connect a cord correctly and it isn't hard to do the whole thing safely.
It isn't.

It is a whole lot easier than running power tools around your fingers,
safely.

Come on, people. Some of you are sounding too much like the lawyers that
have make our society put warning stickers on drive shafts, and stuff like
warnings on burners saying that they are hot. DUH! ! !


There is one level of risk that I am willing to take with my own life
and another that I am willing to take with the life of a complete
stranger.

Yes, it's easy to flip the breaker. It's also easy to forget.

If it was just my life I'd flip the breaker. If it's someone else's I
want something more reliable than my memory.

In article , frozenNorth123
@gm.nospam.ail.com says...

On 4/26/11 1:58 PM, Morgans wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote

If one forgets the main breaker the life one costs may not be one's own.

This issue isn't danger to yourself, it's danger to the guy fixing the
power line that he expects to be cold.

***********************
My WHOLE POINT is that it isn't hard to forget to turn off a main
breaker and connect a cord correctly and it isn't hard to do the whole
thing safely. It isn't.

It is a whole lot easier than running power tools around your fingers,
safely.

Come on, people. Some of you are sounding too much like the lawyers that
have make our society put warning stickers on drive shafts, and stuff
like warnings on burners saying that they are hot. DUH! ! !

As long as you *never* have an electrical inspection, sell the house and
have a home inspection, or live there till you die or go senile. (which
may happen on the same day).

Actually an electrical inspection wouldn't show any problem with his
arrangement. He plugs the generator into a wall outlet. And unplugs it
when it's not needed. Nothing for an inspector to notice.

"Morgans" writes:
"J. Clarke" wrote

If one forgets the main breaker the life one costs may not be one's own.

This issue isn't danger to yourself, it's danger to the guy fixing the
power line that he expects to be cold.

***********************
My WHOLE POINT is that it isn't hard to forget to turn off a main breaker
and connect a cord correctly and it isn't hard to do the whole thing safely.
It isn't.

It really DOESN'T MATTER what your whole point is. Pretty much
every single utility in the united states of america wlil require a
transfer switch (and an inspection by the utility and
potentially the local building inspector) prior to an emergency
generator being connected to the grid. You **** up, and besides the
possibility of killing someone, you'll lose everything you have in court
to the victim(s).

And in an emergency, it is quite easy to forget to pop the main breaker.

I would highly recommend that "Jim in NC"'s advice here be ignored.

scott

J. Clarke wrote:


There is one level of risk that I am willing to take with my own life
and another that I am willing to take with the life of a complete
stranger.

Yes, it's easy to flip the breaker. It's also easy to forget.

If it was just my life I'd flip the breaker. If it's someone else's I
want something more reliable than my memory.

Suppose you DID electrocute somebody else. Chances are it's not somone you
know.

So the next time you're standing in a line to see a movie, ask yourself "Am
I better off now than I was before the storm?"

In article ,
says...

J. Clarke wrote:


There is one level of risk that I am willing to take with my own life
and another that I am willing to take with the life of a complete
stranger.

Yes, it's easy to flip the breaker. It's also easy to forget.

If it was just my life I'd flip the breaker. If it's someone else's I
want something more reliable than my memory.

Suppose you DID electrocute somebody else. Chances are it's not somone you
know.

I'm sorry, but I'm not cool with negligently killing strangers who are
trying to help me.

So the next time you're standing in a line to see a movie, ask yourself "Am
I better off now than I was before the storm?"

Hey, kill a lineman and it might be a long time before you get to stand
in line to see a movie.

Josepi wrote:

How often do you plug in a suicide cord?

The OP explained this but you didn't listen.


I don't think so... No mention of a suicide cord.

--

-Mike-

J. Clarke wrote:


If you need one, you don't need a jury-rigged system that could prove
dangerous - even life-threatening.


John - go back and review the thread. The OP was talking about a parallel
system, not one that ties into the main panel in any way.
--

-Mike-

FrozenNorth wrote:


As long as you *never* have an electrical inspection, sell the house
and have a home inspection, or live there till you die or go senile.
(which may happen on the same day).

Huh? There was nothing in the OP's idea that would fail an electrical
inspection. Or a home inspection (which is only a courtesy inspection and
carries no legal weight).

--

-Mike-

Scott Lurndal wrote:


It really DOESN'T MATTER what your whole point is. Pretty much
every single utility in the united states of america wlil require a
transfer switch (and an inspection by the utility and
potentially the local building inspector) prior to an emergency
generator being connected to the grid. You **** up, and besides the
possibility of killing someone, you'll lose everything you have in
court to the victim(s).

And in an emergency, it is quite easy to forget to pop the main
breaker.

I would highly recommend that "Jim in NC"'s advice here be ignored.


Well, then National Grid, as well as the municipal governments in the
backwoods New York state must be an exception to the "every single utility
in the united states of america", because no such inspection requirements
exist.

--

-Mike-

On Apr 23, 2:27*pm, RonB wrote:
I know this is OT for this group. *But I also know there are several
here who are resourceful enough to have done something similar.

We own a 5000/6260 Watt generator that is used for temporary emergency
service during electrical outages. *In our area (SE Kansas). *Outages
related to thunderstorms and ice storms are fairly common. *Outages
can last from a couple of hours to more than a day.....................

Followup:

I haven't ruled out a transfer switch. However, I was looking for an
lower cost, easier solution than installing one. I can wire the built
in plug I described myself. I normally don't do panel boxes!!!. The
main reason I wanted to use a through-the-wall version was to reduce
the extension cord maze when an outage does occur. The way our house
is laid out I would have to route cords from the generator, through
the garage door, into the house to a staircase, and then nearly the
length of the house to the end of the basement where all of the
equipment described in my post exists. I do have a close-by basement
window but it has a bubble installed over it. I have done the
"driving-rain loosening of the bubble and opening the window" trick a
couple of times but the solution I came up with gets rid of that.
With my plug configuration I could plug a simple octopus gen-cord to
the basement outlet and hit all basement items with short cords.

Some of the guys responding here and on a separate forum didn't fully
read my OP. Having just bought a generator during the past year
doesn't put me in the market for a $4,000 to $12,000 whole-house or
automatic start system. I also am not that concerned about property
value impact and codes. We just built the retirement home and, bad
things notwithstanding, selling the house is our kid's issue. I
cannot imagine the wiring I described reducing value anyway. We also
live in a very small community with no inspections. We hired an
electrician who previously lived in the KC area and does all of his
work to KC/Olathe standards which made me comfortable. If I had not
been in the "building a house during a housing crisis and watching
retirement accounts dwindle mode :^)" I probably would have put the
switch in then. But didn't.

I also pretty plainly said I WAS NOT back-feeding so i WOULD NOT
electrocute the guy on the pole. Won't do that. I know linemen check
during storm repairs, but a cousin nearly got knocked out of a lift-
bucket by a guy who started back feeding while he was working on a
line. Their tools are insulated when they are dry, not soaked.

Thanks for input. I am going to check with the electrician on cost of
a transfer switch installation. That is looking more like the
preferred option.

Ron

People that understand line work in English speaking North America
understand the definitions.

There is no "I wonder if it is alive?"

There is only two definitions ie."alive" and "dead".

When it is equipotentially grounded and all known feeds are locked out and
tagged under a documented safetyl ogging system it is "dead"
Any other condition is "alive"

The "fry a lineman" is just BS from those having no knowledge of electrical
lines practices.

-----------------------


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...
Yep, they can and do work with live wires, but it helps if they know
that they're live.

The person you are fighting in court may be your son while your
granddaughter is dying over the next few months from a charred internal
organ.

Do it properly for a few more dollars

---------------------


"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
.. .
You **** up, and besides the
possibility of killing someone, you'll lose everything you have in court
to the victim(s).

And in an emergency, it is quite easy to forget to pop the main breaker.

I would highly recommend that "Jim in NC"'s advice here be ignored.

scott

Who was the lineman? We could get him fired for stupidity or breaking the
law.

--------------------
"RonB" wrote in message
...

I also pretty plainly said I WAS NOT back-feeding so i WOULD NOT
electrocute the guy on the pole. Won't do that. I know linemen check
during storm repairs, but a cousin nearly got knocked out of a lift-
bucket by a guy who started back feeding while he was working on a
line. Their tools are insulated when they are dry, not soaked.

Thanks for input. I am going to check with the electrician on cost of
a transfer switch installation. That is looking more like the
preferred option.

Ron

On Apr 27, 1:15*pm, "Josepi" wrote:
Who was the lineman? We could get him fired for stupidity or breaking the
law.


This happened 20-30 years ago and its a moot point now. The cousin
died of cancer about a year ago. He ended up his career as the head
honcho over a lot of our state's electrical utility crews; and always
carried a hard-spot in his heart regarding back-feeding. "%$#^%%
*******s."

Thus my position on not backfeeding.

RonB

Josepi wrote:
Until, as the OP noted, he makes a mistake one day and something
happens.
Then we see a "Criminal" that violated civil laws and we hate to see
an old senior in jail.

The one we really hate is his electrocuted grandchild with the
suicide cord plug in her hand.


Pure bull****. Stop spouting things as if they were fact, just to sound
authorotative. Let go of the suicide cord thing too - he explained that he
was not looking at that type of connection. But - letting go of that would
leave you little to ramble on about...

--

-Mike-

Josepi wrote:
The person you are fighting in court may be your son while your
granddaughter is dying over the next few months from a charred
internal organ.

Do it properly for a few more dollars


Perhaps you should advise all of your loved ones not to plug in devices in
their homes.

--

-Mike-

Definitely not a good thing to do (backfeed) but the lineman should have
been fired 20 years ago according to our legal system in effect.

Some manager would spend time in jail for that possibly. They don't take no
BS anymore. Our public is tired of paying for public health care for people
that don't follow rules. They find other fields like plumbing or ditch
digging.

This is not the excuse not to have a throw over switch. I take it you will
remove your system before you die or become senile or sell your house or...
or.....

Like I barked before...who cares about your life? (except for the bills we
have to pay to repair your burned arm or support you in a coma for the next
10 years or your wife's medication from the nervous breakdown) but you may
care about your great granddaughter's burnt arm or the mental retardation
from the brain damage your kids watch and will live with for so many years.

Stop being so cheap and inconsiderate.
-----------------

"RonB" wrote in message
...
This happened 20-30 years ago and its a moot point now. The cousin
died of cancer about a year ago. He ended up his career as the head
honcho over a lot of our state's electrical utility crews; and always
carried a hard-spot in his heart regarding back-feeding. "%$#^%%
*******s."

Thus my position on not backfeeding.

RonB

On Apr 27, 3:37*pm, "Josepi" wrote:
Definitely not a good thing to do (backfeed) but the lineman should have
been fired 20 years ago according to our legal system in effect.

Some manager would spend time in jail for that possibly. They don't take no
BS anymore. Our public is tired of paying for public health care for people
that don't follow rules. They find other fields like plumbing or ditch
digging.



Well...............

I guess I don't understand a bit if this. A lineman gets fired for
getting zapped on an illegally back fed circuit. And his boss goes to
jail?

"Josepi" wrote in message ...

Who was the lineman? We could get him fired for stupidity or breaking the
law.



Correct me if I am wrong here but should not the lineman ALWAYS assume the
line is energized since electricity does not come from a single source?

On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:25:03 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Josepi wrote:
The person you are fighting in court may be your son while your
granddaughter is dying over the next few months from a charred
internal organ.

Do it properly for a few more dollars


Perhaps you should advise all of your loved ones not to plug in devices in
their homes.

Mike, PDFTFT. Add a filter or ten.

(Please Don't Feed The F*cking Troll)

--
Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come
alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs
is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
Mike, PDFTFT. Add a filter or ten.

(Please Don't Feed The F*cking Troll)

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Still using that immature "Look at me" acronym **** here with your multiple
names, here?

You got to be kidding. *You mean you can't plug an adapter into a plug, connect a cord, turn off the main breaker, and start a generator, reliably?

My test would be the "I'm out of town and have to tell the wife or
daughter how to switch the system over test."

From my experience with our home network, printer and modem issues,
it's always easier if I follow the manual when I set things up so she
can have that reference and I'm not face with trying to recall the
neat jury-rig I came up with a couple years ago after reading a
suggestion on a blog (where I lurk

Over my lifetime I've often heard and tried always to follow the sage
advice, "do it the right way the first time" and found it has served
me well while my "shortcuts" have a high correlation with my
"accidents" and "re-dos."

"Hoosierpoopie" is an interesting play. But Hoosierpopi was derived
from "Who is your Popi," a question often posed to my grandchildren
when I fix something for them that they really like. No need to resort
to ad hominid attacks. You either agree with the advice or not. And to
your point, of course I can perform the steps outlined reliably. I
simply choose to flip the appropriate switch and start the generator
without leaving the house.

"George Watson and a few Mike's" attempted in message
...

I didn't read it.

On Apr 28, 7:25*pm, sage wrote:
Make a choice here fella either take your
wailing wall somewhere else or get set
to deal with abuse reports to your provider.
Discussion on dealing with you will not
happen. Shape up or ship out.

Huh? As the OP, I am now lost!

RonB

"George Watson, m II and a few other Mikes here" attempted in message
...
Make a choice here fella either take your
wailing wall somewhere else or get set
to deal with abuse reports to your provider.
Discussion on dealing with you will not
happen. Shape up or ship out.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


sent from

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Asia Pacific Network Information Centre
APNIC
PO Box 2131
Milton
QLD
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Send complaints to his ISP with full header info to

And mine
so they have all the text.


Thanx for your co-operation cleaning up these sad and lonely terrorists

Sorry, I have a group wrecking troll on my tail since year 2001.

Once found he will face some consequences. It's will be corrected, so I am
informed.

-------------------

"RonB" wrote in message
...

Huh? As the OP, I am now lost!

RonB