We are planning construction of a garden shed to store garden tractor,
yard tools, and "stuff" (and regain use of my garage shop). We are
considering Smart Siding, Hardi Panel and T-11 (T1-11). Like the
looks of T-11 but have been unable to find pressure treated siding
used on some factory built buildings.

The Hardi panel looks good but their installation instructions require
a moisture barrier. This is a utility building and the siding will
also serve as sheeting. No interior finish. Will the cement fiber
panel hold up to long term use without sheeting and moisture barrier?
I have used a product similar to Smart and the building looks good
after 25 years but there is concern with Hardi.

Any Experience?

RonB

On 10/4/10 3:31 PM, RonB wrote:
We are planning construction of a garden shed to store garden tractor,
yard tools, and "stuff" (and regain use of my garage shop). We are
considering Smart Siding, Hardi Panel and T-11 (T1-11). Like the
looks of T-11 but have been unable to find pressure treated siding
used on some factory built buildings.

The Hardi panel looks good but their installation instructions require
a moisture barrier. This is a utility building and the siding will
also serve as sheeting. No interior finish. Will the cement fiber
panel hold up to long term use without sheeting and moisture barrier?
I have used a product similar to Smart and the building looks good
after 25 years but there is concern with Hardi.

Any Experience?

RonB

I put that stuff on the shed I built, 10 years ago. I nailed in directly
to the 2x4 framing with nothing else on the inside or outside.
I never even painted the exterior.

It's the same today, physically and cosmetically, as the day I installed
it, except for some staining from mud and grass on the outside from
weed-eating and rain splash.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Oct 4, 4:31*pm, RonB wrote:
We are planning construction of a garden shed to store garden tractor,
yard tools, and "stuff" (and regain use of my garage shop). *We are
considering Smart Siding, Hardi Panel and T-11 (T1-11). *Like the
looks of T-11 but have been unable to find pressure treated siding
used on some factory built buildings.

The Hardi panel looks good but their installation instructions require
a moisture barrier. *This is a utility building and the siding will
also serve as sheeting. *No interior finish. *Will the cement fiber
panel hold up to long term use without sheeting and moisture barrier?
I have used a product similar to Smart and the building looks good
after 25 years but there is concern with Hardi.

Any Experience?

I would not use Hardi without sheathing. Never used SmartSide, though
that seems like a good product. Treated T-1-11 is available around
here, but I don't recall if it was a LP, GP or Weyerhauser product.
Call around and ask who stocks treated plywood siding. The
manufacturers are trying to brand their stuff to differentiate theirs
from others, so asking for T1-11, while technically correct, might be
confusing some of the younger guys.

R

On 10/4/10 4:00 PM, RicodJour wrote:
I would not use Hardi without sheathing.
R

Why? Unless the stuff has drastically changed in 10 years, you don't
need to be over sheathing for a shed.
The stuff on my shed is about the thickness and strength of 1/4 plywood,
probably a bit stronger and *definitely* much more stable than plywood
or OSB sheathing.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Oct 4, 5:16*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
On 10/4/10 4:00 PM, RicodJour wrote:

I would not use Hardi without sheathing.

Why? *Unless the stuff has drastically changed in 10 years, you don't
need to be over sheathing for a shed.

While the 2009 IRC does allow direct attachement, I rarely ignore the
manufacturer's instructions. Whether it's a house or a shed, if it
fails it ain't good.

The stuff on my shed is about the thickness and strength of 1/4 plywood,
probably a bit stronger and *definitely* much more stable than plywood
or OSB sheathing.

Shed walls generally take more abuse than a house's walls, stuff is
banged up against the walls, etc. Wind and other natural acts
(unnatural acts...?) don't differentiate between a residence and a
storage building. They're equal opportunity destroyers. That's not
necessarily a big problem, depending on where the shed is, and it can
be dealt with by installing let-in bracing (old school, but fast
enough and it looks really cool), or by using metal strapping on the
diagonal in the corners. Like this (bottom left corner):
http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...7403503389.jpg
But as Ron didn't mention where he is, it would be foolish to sell him
on an idea that might not work in his area.

You are speaking from a "But that's how I did it and it's fine!" view
point. I'm not arguing your personal experience, but standard
construction, and particularly the manufacturer's instructions,
probably shouldn't be ignored for little reason. I've seen more than
a few fiber cement installations that suffered from elephantiasis due
to inattention to detail. Frankly I'm surprised that your shed has
held up without paint (also no caulk?), as required by the
manufacturer, for so long. Perhaps you're one of the lucky ones, but
I tend to doubt if you hit 00 on the roulette wheel that you'd tell
everyone to bet 00 every time, right?

Ron also said he liked the looks of T1-11, so I'd think that should
count for something, no? Plywood siding goes up faster, is cheaper,
structurally stronger and looks just fine. So where's the problem?

R

Whichever siding you use, I would recommend installing a moisture
barrier. Two rolls of felt won't break you. Also, build it with
walls at least 10' high, i.e., for some attic space. Exterior
sheeting is 8', so put a 2' skirt at the bottom, with a drip edge
between the skirt and the higher full sheet/panel... see pic. If the
bottom ever rots or gets damaged, all you'll have to replace is the
bottom skirt section.... not have to mess with a full sheet/panel. If
applicable, cut the skirt upper and lower edges at 30°, as with the
lower edge of the upper full sheet. Screw the skirt onto the framing,
easier to remove, if need be. One of my garages has had untreated
T1-11 for 20 yrs.... still in good shape. Prior to installing the
skirt, I primed and painted the 30° cuts and about 10" (a paint roller
width) up the back side. 3/4" nap roller for the rough T1-11, hand
brush it smooth... goes faster than you think. Caulk the butting
edges of each sheet. Caulk the seams/joints of your drip edge/
sheeting.

The bottom edge of the skirt, cut at 30°, doesn't allow water wicking
across an otherwise flat bottom and up the back side. A 12"
galvanized strip, behind the skirt and slightly lower than the bottom
edge, will help keep out any moisture, also... but I'm not sure of
your foundation for warranting this gal. strip.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/4733385477/
.....Detailed pics can be readily gotten, if need be.

Sonny

On 10/4/10 5:04 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 4, 5:16 pm, wrote:
On 10/4/10 4:00 PM, RicodJour wrote:

I would not use Hardi without sheathing.

Why? Unless the stuff has drastically changed in 10 years, you don't
need to be over sheathing for a shed.

While the 2009 IRC does allow direct attachement, I rarely ignore the
manufacturer's instructions. Whether it's a house or a shed, if it
fails it ain't good.

The stuff on my shed is about the thickness and strength of 1/4 plywood,
probably a bit stronger and *definitely* much more stable than plywood
or OSB sheathing.

Shed walls generally take more abuse than a house's walls, stuff is
banged up against the walls, etc. Wind and other natural acts
(unnatural acts...?) don't differentiate between a residence and a
storage building. They're equal opportunity destroyers. That's not
necessarily a big problem, depending on where the shed is, and it can
be dealt with by installing let-in bracing (old school, but fast
enough and it looks really cool), or by using metal strapping on the
diagonal in the corners. Like this (bottom left corner):
http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...7403503389.jpg
But as Ron didn't mention where he is, it would be foolish to sell him
on an idea that might not work in his area.


I think you're trying way over engineer a shed.
Everything I've seen on their site speaks about residential
construction, not a storage shed.


You are speaking from a "But that's how I did it and it's fine!" view
point. I'm not arguing your personal experience, but standard
construction, and particularly the manufacturer's instructions,
probably shouldn't be ignored for little reason. I've seen more than
a few fiber cement installations that suffered from elephantiasis due
to inattention to detail. Frankly I'm surprised that your shed has
held up without paint (also no caulk?), as required by the
manufacturer, for so long. Perhaps you're one of the lucky ones, but
I tend to doubt if you hit 00 on the roulette wheel that you'd tell
everyone to bet 00 every time, right?


Again, why are you bringing up manufacturer's instructions that relate
to residential installations? Why would I want caulk on a shed? If water
runs off, that's enough to keep my stuff dry. In any shed, unless it has
HVAC, the temperature and humidity is the same on the inside as the
outside. I actually like some airflow in and out of a shed to keep it
from turning into a greenhouse in the summer. This can be accomplished
with open eaves.

I'm not lucky. Nor are the thousands of other people who put these up as
kits from 84 lumber.


Ron also said he liked the looks of T1-11, so I'd think that should
count for something, no?

The Hardi Panel I put up looks just like T1-11.


Plywood siding goes up faster, is cheaper,
structurally stronger and looks just fine. So where's the problem?

R

I never said there was a problem with plywood.
I said it wasn't necessary under the Hardiboard. If you're going to put
up plywood, just put up T1-11 and have it be structural. If you're going
to put up Hardi... for a shed... you don't need plywood, too.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Oct 4, 4:31*pm, RonB wrote:
We are planning construction of a garden shed to store garden tractor,
yard tools, and "stuff" (and regain use of my garage shop). *We are
considering Smart Siding, Hardi Panel and T-11 (T1-11). *Like the
looks of T-11 but have been unable to find pressure treated siding
used on some factory built buildings.

The Hardi panel looks good but their installation instructions require
a moisture barrier. *This is a utility building and the siding will
also serve as sheeting. *No interior finish. *Will the cement fiber
panel hold up to long term use without sheeting and moisture barrier?
I have used a product similar to Smart and the building looks good
after 25 years but there is concern with Hardi.

Any Experience?

RonB

According to the directions, sheathing is not required for Hardi
Panel. However they do stress using a moisture barrier. So at a
minimum, no sheathing but I would use a moisture barrier. Then if the
product does fail, then you would be able to make claim on the
warranty. If it were me, I would use sheathing just to give it more
rigidity, a moisture barrier, and caulk the seams as well. Though it
is up to you.

Allen

On 10/4/10 6:47 PM, allen476 wrote:
On Oct 4, 4:31 pm, wrote:
We are planning construction of a garden shed to store garden tractor,
yard tools, and "stuff" (and regain use of my garage shop). We are
considering Smart Siding, Hardi Panel and T-11 (T1-11). Like the
looks of T-11 but have been unable to find pressure treated siding
used on some factory built buildings.

The Hardi panel looks good but their installation instructions require
a moisture barrier. This is a utility building and the siding will
also serve as sheeting. No interior finish. Will the cement fiber
panel hold up to long term use without sheeting and moisture barrier?
I have used a product similar to Smart and the building looks good
after 25 years but there is concern with Hardi.

Any Experience?

RonB

According to the directions, sheathing is not required for Hardi
Panel. However they do stress using a moisture barrier. So at a
minimum, no sheathing but I would use a moisture barrier. Then if the
product does fail, then you would be able to make claim on the
warranty. If it were me, I would use sheathing just to give it more
rigidity, a moisture barrier, and caulk the seams as well. Though it
is up to you.

Allen

If you're worried about a warranty, I would call the company and make
sure they will honor it on a shed. I'm fairly certain the moisture
barrier has nothing to with protecting the cement board and everything
to do with the intended purpose of a moisture barrier on a residence,
regardless of the siding material used.

Unless you're going to be heating & cooling your lawn tractor and
shovels, there's no need for a moisture barrier. In fact (as I wrote in
another post) I would go so far as to have open eaves on the overhang
(if you have them) or some sort of venting on each end of the roof
peaks, to allow for some air flow to prevent a greenhouse effect.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

We are planning construction of a garden shed to store garden tractor,
yard tools, and "stuff" (and regain use of my garage shop). We are
considering Smart Siding, Hardi Panel and T-11 (T1-11). Like the
looks of T-11 but have been unable to find pressure treated siding
used on some factory built buildings.

The Hardi panel looks good but their installation instructions require
a moisture barrier. This is a utility building and the siding will
also serve as sheeting. No interior finish. Will the cement fiber
panel hold up to long term use without sheeting and moisture barrier?
I have used a product similar to Smart and the building looks good
after 25 years but there is concern with Hardi.

Any Experience?

RonB

If this shed will see the kind of abuse mine does I'd use sheathing... it
will prevent busting the siding if there are errant impacts from the inside.
From my experience with the siding, I think it would hold up to moderate
impacts from the outside because the studs would support it pretty well if
on 16" centers.

Since there is no insulation or heat or interior drywall the moisture
barrier could probably be ignored... there would be some risk of wind driven
rain penetration at joints but with the 1 1/4" lap leaks at the laps would
be minimal. It will dry...

John

On 10/4/10 7:36 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

If this shed will see the kind of abuse mine does I'd use sheathing...
it will prevent busting the siding if there are errant impacts from the
inside. From my experience with the siding, I think it would hold up to
moderate impacts from the outside because the studs would support it
pretty well if on 16" centers.


Maybe I got the super-uber-strength Hardiboard or something, but this
stuff is as strong as your typical 3 or 4 ply low grade 1/4" plywood. I
would put in up against 1/4" ply on a hammer test, any day.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 7:36 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

If this shed will see the kind of abuse mine does I'd use sheathing...
it will prevent busting the siding if there are errant impacts from the
inside. From my experience with the siding, I think it would hold up to
moderate impacts from the outside because the studs would support it
pretty well if on 16" centers.


Maybe I got the super-uber-strength Hardiboard or something, but this
stuff is as strong as your typical 3 or 4 ply low grade 1/4" plywood. I
would put in up against 1/4" ply on a hammer test, any day.

I don't disagree with that... it's the busting at the nails if pushed from
the inside to which I was referring... it doesn't bend well. ;~)

On 10/4/10 7:59 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 7:36 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

If this shed will see the kind of abuse mine does I'd use sheathing...
it will prevent busting the siding if there are errant impacts from the
inside. From my experience with the siding, I think it would hold up to
moderate impacts from the outside because the studs would support it
pretty well if on 16" centers.


Maybe I got the super-uber-strength Hardiboard or something, but this
stuff is as strong as your typical 3 or 4 ply low grade 1/4" plywood. I
would put in up against 1/4" ply on a hammer test, any day.

I don't disagree with that... it's the busting at the nails if pushed
from the inside to which I was referring... it doesn't bend well. ;~)

I haven't experienced that, although it makes me curious enough to do
some experimenting, next time I'm out there. I would think its rigidity
would help in that department, however. I do have plenty of heavy items
leaned up against it and the mower gets pushed against it fairly hard
every time I put her away.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 7:59 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 7:36 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

If this shed will see the kind of abuse mine does I'd use sheathing...
it will prevent busting the siding if there are errant impacts from the
inside. From my experience with the siding, I think it would hold up to
moderate impacts from the outside because the studs would support it
pretty well if on 16" centers.


Maybe I got the super-uber-strength Hardiboard or something, but this
stuff is as strong as your typical 3 or 4 ply low grade 1/4" plywood. I
would put in up against 1/4" ply on a hammer test, any day.

I don't disagree with that... it's the busting at the nails if pushed
from the inside to which I was referring... it doesn't bend well. ;~)

I haven't experienced that, although it makes me curious enough to do
some experimenting, next time I'm out there. I would think its rigidity
would help in that department, however. I do have plenty of heavy items
leaned up against it and the mower gets pushed against it fairly hard
every time I put her away.

The risk goes up if it's wide and blind nailed... I"ve got a lot of heavy
stuff in my shed, like digging bars, buckets of lead, etc. that would bust
the siding off with no problem if it fell against the siding...

On 10/4/10 8:29 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 7:59 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 7:36 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

If this shed will see the kind of abuse mine does I'd use sheathing...
it will prevent busting the siding if there are errant impacts from
the
inside. From my experience with the siding, I think it would hold
up to
moderate impacts from the outside because the studs would support it
pretty well if on 16" centers.


Maybe I got the super-uber-strength Hardiboard or something, but this
stuff is as strong as your typical 3 or 4 ply low grade 1/4" plywood. I
would put in up against 1/4" ply on a hammer test, any day.

I don't disagree with that... it's the busting at the nails if pushed
from the inside to which I was referring... it doesn't bend well. ;~)

I haven't experienced that, although it makes me curious enough to do
some experimenting, next time I'm out there. I would think its rigidity
would help in that department, however. I do have plenty of heavy items
leaned up against it and the mower gets pushed against it fairly hard
every time I put her away.

The risk goes up if it's wide and blind nailed... I"ve got a lot of
heavy stuff in my shed, like digging bars, buckets of lead, etc. that
would bust the siding off with no problem if it fell against the siding...


Makes for an interesting experiment, but I doubt 1/4" ply would fare any
better.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 8:29 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 7:59 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 7:36 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

If this shed will see the kind of abuse mine does I'd use
sheathing...
it will prevent busting the siding if there are errant impacts from
the
inside. From my experience with the siding, I think it would hold
up to
moderate impacts from the outside because the studs would support it
pretty well if on 16" centers.


Maybe I got the super-uber-strength Hardiboard or something, but this
stuff is as strong as your typical 3 or 4 ply low grade 1/4" plywood.
I
would put in up against 1/4" ply on a hammer test, any day.

I don't disagree with that... it's the busting at the nails if pushed
from the inside to which I was referring... it doesn't bend well. ;~)

I haven't experienced that, although it makes me curious enough to do
some experimenting, next time I'm out there. I would think its rigidity
would help in that department, however. I do have plenty of heavy items
leaned up against it and the mower gets pushed against it fairly hard
every time I put her away.

The risk goes up if it's wide and blind nailed... I"ve got a lot of
heavy stuff in my shed, like digging bars, buckets of lead, etc. that
would bust the siding off with no problem if it fell against the
siding...


Makes for an interesting experiment, but I doubt 1/4" ply would fare any
better.

I use 1/2" or 3/4" depending on where I'm using it...

On 10/4/10 9:00 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 8:29 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 7:59 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 7:36 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

If this shed will see the kind of abuse mine does I'd use
sheathing...
it will prevent busting the siding if there are errant impacts from
the
inside. From my experience with the siding, I think it would hold
up to
moderate impacts from the outside because the studs would support it
pretty well if on 16" centers.


Maybe I got the super-uber-strength Hardiboard or something, but this
stuff is as strong as your typical 3 or 4 ply low grade 1/4"
plywood. I
would put in up against 1/4" ply on a hammer test, any day.

I don't disagree with that... it's the busting at the nails if pushed
from the inside to which I was referring... it doesn't bend well. ;~)

I haven't experienced that, although it makes me curious enough to do
some experimenting, next time I'm out there. I would think its rigidity
would help in that department, however. I do have plenty of heavy items
leaned up against it and the mower gets pushed against it fairly hard
every time I put her away.

The risk goes up if it's wide and blind nailed... I"ve got a lot of
heavy stuff in my shed, like digging bars, buckets of lead, etc. that
would bust the siding off with no problem if it fell against the
siding...


Makes for an interesting experiment, but I doubt 1/4" ply would fare
any better.

I use 1/2" or 3/4" depending on where I'm using it...

I know 1/2" is standard, but I was using equivalent size for comparison.
I might even put up 1/4" Hardi against some of the horrible 7/16" 3 ply
I see at Home Depot and Lowes.

3/4" sheathing, imo, would be waaaaay overkill. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/4/10 9:00 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:


Makes for an interesting experiment, but I doubt 1/4" ply would fare
any better.

I use 1/2" or 3/4" depending on where I'm using it...

I know 1/2" is standard, but I was using equivalent size for comparison.
I might even put up 1/4" Hardi against some of the horrible 7/16" 3 ply
I see at Home Depot and Lowes.

3/4" sheathing, imo, would be waaaaay overkill. :-)

I've used 3/4 a few times... like when 1/4 fiber board is on other parts of
the house and when I need to nail into the sheathing for trim and such when
there are no studs in the vicinity. An example of the later is putting 4"
trim around windows and needing to nail the Hardie Plank siding to
something. 3/4 is also good in hurricane areas!

In article 24fb9f2c-34a1-4a2a-8610-000b24b2dbb9
@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com, says...

We are planning construction of a garden shed to store garden tractor,
yard tools, and "stuff" (and regain use of my garage shop). We are
considering Smart Siding, Hardi Panel and T-11 (T1-11). Like the
looks of T-11 but have been unable to find pressure treated siding
used on some factory built buildings.

Is the siding going to be in ground contact? If not you don't need
pressure treated. Paint all exposed surfaces (that's top, bottom,
edges, and outward-face) before you put it up, use proper Z-flashing
properly gapped along the top, and keep it painted and it should last
longer than you will.

The Hardi panel looks good but their installation instructions require
a moisture barrier. This is a utility building and the siding will
also serve as sheeting. No interior finish. Will the cement fiber
panel hold up to long term use without sheeting and moisture barrier?
I have used a product similar to Smart and the building looks good
after 25 years but there is concern with Hardi.

The moisture barrier is not there to protect the hardi-panel, it's there
to protect the structure behind it. Hardi-panel is much like concrete--
it can hold and pass a remarkable amount of water. Having structure in
contact with it with no moisture barrier can result in the edge of the
structure in contact with the hardi-panel being kept damp and rotting.
Since it's covered by the hardi-panel you won't be able to tell by
inspection that it's rotting and your first notice may be when the shed
falls down.

Note that you can combine hardi-plank and t1-11 to good effect--if the
shed sits on grade the lower edge of the t1-11 will be closer to the
ground than is desirable--keep it painted and it will be fine but you
have to keep on top of it. If instead you put a foot or so of hardi-
plank at the bottom with aluminum flashing behind it, then a z-flashing
and t1-11 above, you'll end up with a pretty durable installation that
doesn't need much maintenance.


Any Experience?

RonB

"RonB" wrote in message
...
We are planning construction of a garden shed to store garden tractor,
yard tools, and "stuff" (and regain use of my garage shop). We are
considering Smart Siding, Hardi Panel and T-11 (T1-11). Like the
looks of T-11 but have been unable to find pressure treated siding
used on some factory built buildings.

The Hardi panel looks good but their installation instructions require
a moisture barrier. This is a utility building and the siding will
also serve as sheeting. No interior finish. Will the cement fiber
panel hold up to long term use without sheeting and moisture barrier?
I have used a product similar to Smart and the building looks good
after 25 years but there is concern with Hardi.

Any Experience?

RonB

Absolutely will hold up. Like most cement or brick prioducts Hardi products
are porus and do not fit together tightly enough to prevent water from
blowing in through the bottom of the panels or joints. The moisture barrier
is to protect the contents not the siding.

I have used the Hardi "planks" on my home and on my shed. I strongly
suggest you do some cross bracing of the walls and not rely on the Hardi or
any product of similar nature to ad structural strength of your shed. Hardi
prioducts are a strong siding that lasts many years but if the wall wiggles
the fantener holes in the product will wollow out. Use this type siding to
keep the elements out and not to add strength to the structure.

"Sonny" wrote in message
...
Whichever siding you use, I would recommend installing a moisture
barrier. Two rolls of felt won't break you. Also, build it with
walls at least 10' high, i.e., for some attic space. Exterior
sheeting is 8', so put a 2' skirt at the bottom, with a drip edge
between the skirt and the higher full sheet/panel... see pic. If the
bottom ever rots or gets damaged, all you'll have to replace is the
bottom skirt section.... not have to mess with a full sheet/panel. If
applicable, cut the skirt upper and lower edges at 30°, as with the
lower edge of the upper full sheet. Screw the skirt onto the framing,
easier to remove, if need be. One of my garages has had untreated
T1-11 for 20 yrs.... still in good shape. Prior to installing the
skirt, I primed and painted the 30° cuts and about 10" (a paint roller
width) up the back side. 3/4" nap roller for the rough T1-11, hand
brush it smooth... goes faster than you think. Caulk the butting
edges of each sheet. Caulk the seams/joints of your drip edge/
sheeting.

The bottom edge of the skirt, cut at 30°, doesn't allow water wicking
across an otherwise flat bottom and up the back side. A 12"
galvanized strip, behind the skirt and slightly lower than the bottom
edge, will help keep out any moisture, also... but I'm not sure of
your foundation for warranting this gal. strip.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/4733385477/
.....Detailed pics can be readily gotten, if need be.

Gotta agree with using a moisture barier to keep the contents dry. My shed
went through Hurricane Ike a bouple of years ago and not a drop of water
came in. I did however use the more expensive Tyvek sheathing over tar
paper. I used the Tyvek over tar paper for two reasons, I did not want to
smell the tar smell inside the shed on a hot summer day and the Tyvek is
white not black, that helps the interior to be lighter inside when the door
is the only source of light.

On 10/05/2010 02:25 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article24fb9f2c-34a1-4a2a-8610-000b24b2dbb9
@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com, says...

We are planning construction of a garden shed to store garden tractor,
yard tools, and "stuff" (and regain use of my garage shop). We are
considering Smart Siding, Hardi Panel and T-11 (T1-11). Like the
looks of T-11 but have been unable to find pressure treated siding
used on some factory built buildings.

Is the siding going to be in ground contact? If not you don't need
pressure treated. Paint all exposed surfaces (that's top, bottom,
edges, and outward-face) before you put it up, use proper Z-flashing
properly gapped along the top, and keep it painted and it should last
longer than you will.

The Hardi panel looks good but their installation instructions require
a moisture barrier. This is a utility building and the siding will
also serve as sheeting. No interior finish. Will the cement fiber
panel hold up to long term use without sheeting and moisture barrier?
I have used a product similar to Smart and the building looks good
after 25 years but there is concern with Hardi.

The moisture barrier is not there to protect the hardi-panel, it's there
to protect the structure behind it. Hardi-panel is much like concrete--
it can hold and pass a remarkable amount of water. Having structure in
contact with it with no moisture barrier can result in the edge of the
structure in contact with the hardi-panel being kept damp and rotting.
Since it's covered by the hardi-panel you won't be able to tell by
inspection that it's rotting and your first notice may be when the shed
falls down.

Note that you can combine hardi-plank and t1-11 to good effect--if the
shed sits on grade the lower edge of the t1-11 will be closer to the
ground than is desirable--keep it painted and it will be fine but you
have to keep on top of it. If instead you put a foot or so of hardi-
plank at the bottom with aluminum flashing behind it, then a z-flashing
and t1-11 above, you'll end up with a pretty durable installation that
doesn't need much maintenance.


Any Experience?

RonB


Home Desperate has 4 x 8 Hardi panels - looks just like T111.

On Oct 5, 9:05*am, "Leon" wrote:
"Sonny" wrote in message

Whichever siding you use, I would recommend installing a moisture
barrier. *Two rolls of felt won't break you. *Also, build it with
walls at least 10' high, i.e., for some attic space. *Exterior
sheeting is 8', so put a 2' skirt at the bottom, with a drip edge
between the skirt and the higher full sheet/panel... see pic. *If the
bottom ever rots or gets damaged, all you'll have to replace is the
bottom skirt section.... not have to mess with a full sheet/panel. *If
applicable, cut the skirt upper and lower edges at 30°, as with the
lower edge of the upper full sheet. *Screw the skirt onto the framing,
easier to remove, if need be. *One of my garages has had untreated
T1-11 for 20 yrs.... still in good shape. *Prior to installing the
skirt, I primed and painted the 30° cuts and about 10" (a paint roller
width) up the back side. *3/4" nap roller for the rough T1-11, hand
brush it smooth... goes faster than you think. *Caulk the butting
edges of each sheet. *Caulk the seams/joints of your drip edge/
sheeting.

The bottom edge of the skirt, cut at 30°, doesn't allow water wicking
across an otherwise flat bottom and up the back side. *A 12"
galvanized strip, behind the skirt and slightly lower than the bottom
edge, will help keep out any moisture, also... but I'm not sure of
your foundation for warranting this gal. strip.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/4733385477/
....Detailed pics can be readily gotten, if need be.

Gotta agree with using a moisture barier to keep the contents dry. *My shed
went through Hurricane Ike a bouple of years ago and not a drop of water
came in. *I did however use the more expensive Tyvek sheathing over tar
paper. *I used the Tyvek over tar paper for two reasons, I did not want to
smell the tar smell inside the shed on a hot summer day and the Tyvek is
white not black, that helps the interior to be lighter inside when the door
is the only source of light.

Well, you certainly know what you're doing, Leon. Excellent advice.

R

On Oct 4, 6:47 pm, -MIKE- wrote:
On 10/4/10 5:04 PM, RicodJour wrote:

Shed walls generally take more abuse than a house's walls, stuff is
banged up against the walls, etc. Wind and other natural acts
(unnatural acts...?) don't differentiate between a residence and a
storage building. They're equal opportunity destroyers. That's not
necessarily a big problem, depending on where the shed is, and it can
be dealt with by installing let-in bracing (old school, but fast
enough and it looks really cool), or by using metal strapping on the
diagonal in the corners. Like this (bottom left corner):
http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...CODA2009061607...
But as Ron didn't mention where he is, it would be foolish to sell him
on an idea that might not work in his area.

I think you're trying way over engineer a shed.
Everything I've seen on their site speaks about residential
construction, not a storage shed.

As I mentioned, loads and the elements don't differentiate between a
shed and any other structure, so why do you? I don't build to minimum
anything. Life's too short to work with crappy tools, do crappy work
or build just-acceptable. Our opinions may vary on this.

You are speaking from a "But that's how I did it and it's fine!" view
point. I'm not arguing your personal experience, but standard
construction, and particularly the manufacturer's instructions,
probably shouldn't be ignored for little reason. I've seen more than
a few fiber cement installations that suffered from elephantiasis due
to inattention to detail. Frankly I'm surprised that your shed has
held up without paint (also no caulk?), as required by the
manufacturer, for so long. Perhaps you're one of the lucky ones, but
I tend to doubt if you hit 00 on the roulette wheel that you'd tell
everyone to bet 00 every time, right?

Again, why are you bringing up manufacturer's instructions that relate
to residential installations? Why would I want caulk on a shed? If water
runs off, that's enough to keep my stuff dry. In any shed, unless it has
HVAC, the temperature and humidity is the same on the inside as the
outside. I actually like some airflow in and out of a shed to keep it
from turning into a greenhouse in the summer. This can be accomplished
with open eaves.

Why would you want caulk on a shed? Hmm, I guess for the same reason
that you'd want paint on Hardi-anything.

I'm not lucky. Nor are the thousands of other people who put these up as
kits from 84 lumber.

Ah, that explains things. I don't build from kits...at least I
haven't since my Erector set days.

Ron also said he liked the looks of T1-11, so I'd think that should
count for something, no?

The Hardi Panel I put up looks just like T1-11.

Plywood siding goes up faster, is cheaper,
structurally stronger and looks just fine. So where's the problem?


I never said there was a problem with plywood.
I said it wasn't necessary under the Hardiboard. If you're going to put
up plywood, just put up T1-11 and have it be structural. If you're going
to put up Hardi... for a shed... you don't need plywood, too.

....in your opinion. This is the same opinion that leaves Hardi
unpainted. You said your shed was a store-bought kit. Were all of
the Hardipanel pieces pre-cut with sealed edges?

You're happy with what you built, as you should be, and that's fine
with me. My issue is that you're glossing over issues, and have cut
some corners, which makes some of your advice suspect.

R

Thanks for good comments so far.

I didn't mention our location and that is a factor. We are in the SE
corner of Kansas, very close to the Ozarks. High humidity is a
concern. Termites too, but will treat for them.

I built a slightly smaller shed 20-25 years ago, using Masonite,
vertical-look sheeting; and was concerned about interior impacts.
That material is probably much less impact resistant than Smart
panels. I installed a 2X4 "bumper strip" around the interior at about
tractor, wheelbarrow, tiller height. Some of the rest was protected
by shelving. Will do the same here.

I took a look at a demo video on LP's web site last night that kinda
got my attention regarding impact resistance of Smart panels vs
concrete fiber:

http://www.youtube.com/LPBuildingPro...11/ta8Ymn_sExk

Kinda helped me decide about un-backed cement board. Some of LP's
other info and videos have me leaning toward Smart Panel. The
treatments they used during manufacture do provide a good deal of
termite and rot resistance. However, it is clear they are concerned
with moisture intrusion beyond the outer facing. T-11 is also a good
product but in the rural area where we are located, I might have to
drive more than 100 miles to get pressure treated material; and then I
am still looking at a 3-5 year cleaning and re-staining cycle.
Heading in to retirement and that might get tedious in 10 or 15
years.

Thanks again for input and more is appreciated.

RonB

On 10/5/10 9:09 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 4, 6:47 pm, wrote:
On 10/4/10 5:04 PM, RicodJour wrote:

Shed walls generally take more abuse than a house's walls, stuff is
banged up against the walls, etc. Wind and other natural acts
(unnatural acts...?) don't differentiate between a residence and a
storage building. They're equal opportunity destroyers. That's not
necessarily a big problem, depending on where the shed is, and it can
be dealt with by installing let-in bracing (old school, but fast
enough and it looks really cool), or by using metal strapping on the
diagonal in the corners. Like this (bottom left corner):
http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...CODA2009061607...
But as Ron didn't mention where he is, it would be foolish to sell him
on an idea that might not work in his area.

I think you're trying way over engineer a shed.
Everything I've seen on their site speaks about residential
construction, not a storage shed.

As I mentioned, loads and the elements don't differentiate between a
shed and any other structure, so why do you? I don't build to minimum
anything. Life's too short to work with crappy tools, do crappy work
or build just-acceptable. Our opinions may vary on this.


Who said anything about crappy work?
Are you insulating your shed? Are you putting drywall up in the inside?
Why not, if "loads and the elements don't differentiate between a shed
and any other structure?"


You are speaking from a "But that's how I did it and it's fine!" view
point. I'm not arguing your personal experience, but standard
construction, and particularly the manufacturer's instructions,
probably shouldn't be ignored for little reason. I've seen more than
a few fiber cement installations that suffered from elephantiasis due
to inattention to detail. Frankly I'm surprised that your shed has
held up without paint (also no caulk?), as required by the
manufacturer, for so long. Perhaps you're one of the lucky ones, but
I tend to doubt if you hit 00 on the roulette wheel that you'd tell
everyone to bet 00 every time, right?

Again, why are you bringing up manufacturer's instructions that relate
to residential installations? Why would I want caulk on a shed? If water
runs off, that's enough to keep my stuff dry. In any shed, unless it has
HVAC, the temperature and humidity is the same on the inside as the
outside. I actually like some airflow in and out of a shed to keep it
from turning into a greenhouse in the summer. This can be accomplished
with open eaves.

Why would you want caulk on a shed? Hmm, I guess for the same reason
that you'd want paint on Hardi-anything.

I'm not lucky. Nor are the thousands of other people who put these up as
kits from 84 lumber.

Ah, that explains things. I don't build from kits...at least I
haven't since my Erector set days.


Ohhh, we're taking the arrogant approach, are we? If you must know,
after designing and building my own home and moving to another, having a
truckload of crap to store, I was a bit stressed out and wanted the
fastest, dumbest manner in which to get my $h!t stored so I could get to
the rest of why we moved in the first place.

The other house additions I've designed and built for friends weren't
done from kits either, if that helps you come down from that pedestal.


Ron also said he liked the looks of T1-11, so I'd think that should
count for something, no?

The Hardi Panel I put up looks just like T1-11.

Plywood siding goes up faster, is cheaper,
structurally stronger and looks just fine. So where's the problem?


I never said there was a problem with plywood.
I said it wasn't necessary under the Hardiboard. If you're going to put
up plywood, just put up T1-11 and have it be structural. If you're going
to put up Hardi... for a shed... you don't need plywood, too.

...in your opinion. This is the same opinion that leaves Hardi
unpainted. You said your shed was a store-bought kit. Were all of
the Hardipanel pieces pre-cut with sealed edges?

You're happy with what you built, as you should be, and that's fine
with me. My issue is that you're glossing over issues, and have cut
some corners, which makes some of your advice suspect.

R

All I'm saying is I have a shed out there with hardipanel as the only
structural sheathing and it's as solid as the day I put it up, 10yrs ago.
Mileage may vary, but if a guy just wants to keep rain of his mower and
shovels,
he can save a lot of time and money by not building it like a house.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 10/5/10 11:13 AM, RonB wrote:
I took a look at a demo video on LP's web site last night that kinda
got my attention regarding impact resistance of Smart panels vs
concrete fiber:

http://www.youtube.com/LPBuildingPro...11/ta8Ymn_sExk

RonB

excellent demonstration.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In article 858a6e31-4747-4f8d-af23-6c33c5c54219
@x7g2000yqg.googlegroups.com, says...

Thanks for good comments so far.

I didn't mention our location and that is a factor. We are in the SE
corner of Kansas, very close to the Ozarks. High humidity is a
concern. Termites too, but will treat for them.

I built a slightly smaller shed 20-25 years ago, using Masonite,
vertical-look sheeting; and was concerned about interior impacts.
That material is probably much less impact resistant than Smart
panels. I installed a 2X4 "bumper strip" around the interior at about
tractor, wheelbarrow, tiller height. Some of the rest was protected
by shelving. Will do the same here.

I took a look at a demo video on LP's web site last night that kinda
got my attention regarding impact resistance of Smart panels vs
concrete fiber:

http://www.youtube.com/LPBuildingPro...11/ta8Ymn_sExk

Kinda helped me decide about un-backed cement board. Some of LP's
other info and videos have me leaning toward Smart Panel. The
treatments they used during manufacture do provide a good deal of
termite and rot resistance. However, it is clear they are concerned
with moisture intrusion beyond the outer facing. T-11 is also a good
product but in the rural area where we are located, I might have to
drive more than 100 miles to get pressure treated material; and then I
am still looking at a 3-5 year cleaning and re-staining cycle.
Heading in to retirement and that might get tedious in 10 or 15
years.

Whoa. STOP. Stain is not the way to low maintenance and there is
absoutely nothing about T1-11 that makes stain preferable to paint on
it. You can't stain hardipanel and you can't stain smart panel, so why
would you want to stain T1-11?

Leon wrote the following:
"RonB" wrote in message
...
We are planning construction of a garden shed to store garden tractor,
yard tools, and "stuff" (and regain use of my garage shop). We are
considering Smart Siding, Hardi Panel and T-11 (T1-11). Like the
looks of T-11 but have been unable to find pressure treated siding
used on some factory built buildings.

The Hardi panel looks good but their installation instructions require
a moisture barrier. This is a utility building and the siding will
also serve as sheeting. No interior finish. Will the cement fiber
panel hold up to long term use without sheeting and moisture barrier?
I have used a product similar to Smart and the building looks good
after 25 years but there is concern with Hardi.

Any Experience?

RonB

Absolutely will hold up. Like most cement or brick prioducts Hardi products
are porus and do not fit together tightly enough to prevent water from
blowing in through the bottom of the panels or joints. The moisture barrier
is to protect the contents not the siding.

Perhaps the moisture barrier is also to prevent water wicking through
the hardie board into the wood studs?


I have used the Hardi "planks" on my home and on my shed. I strongly
suggest you do some cross bracing of the walls and not rely on the Hardi or
any product of similar nature to ad structural strength of your shed. Hardi
prioducts are a strong siding that lasts many years but if the wall wiggles
the fantener holes in the product will wollow out. Use this type siding to
keep the elements out and not to add strength to the structure.




--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Oct 5, 4:25 am, "J. Clarke" wrote:

The moisture barrier is not there to protect the hardi-panel, it's there
to protect the structure behind it. Hardi-panel is much like concrete--
it can hold and pass a remarkable amount of water. Having structure in
contact with it with no moisture barrier can result in the edge of the
structure in contact with the hardi-panel being kept damp and rotting.

Bingo. And that is 75% of the reason you have a moisture barrier.
Having attended more than one cementitious product installation
instructional seminar they all agree to that. That is also why they
STRONGLY recommend a suitable paint over the siding.

With our weather extremes, I am gunshy about installing Hardie on long
unbroken runs. Tough to beat on areas that are just a couple of
pieces (or less) wide, but long runs don't seem to be a good fit with
our weather. I have mitigated the problem of the product expanding
and contracting somewhat by using good quality paint to prime the
backside before installation on the longer runs. Shorter runs still
receive nothing.

I have gone to houses that we clad with cement planking a few years
ago, and in long runs (say 40 - 50' across a house) that stuff moves
like crazy even after a factory rep certified our proper installation
(at the request of the client).

Which leads to the second reason for a "moisture barrier". Slip
sheathing. When you nail off the siding directly onto the wood
(sheathing or studs) it creates enough friction that when the siding
moves it will tear up the connection points. (See Leon's post on the
wallowed out holes further down). The barrier allows the cement
siding to "slip" a bit around the fasteners since it is not directly
nailed to hard contact the wood. Since movement can/will cause
spalling and thus loose siding, why take any kind of chance? I
can't. I have to warrant my product.

That is why on a shed or an open shop we just use 15# or 30# felt.
Works great, and cheap, too.

Robert

On 10/5/2010 1:03 PM, wrote:

Bingo. And that is 75% of the reason you have a moisture barrier.
Having attended more than one cementitious product installation
instructional seminar they all agree to that. That is also why they
STRONGLY recommend a suitable paint over the siding.

With our weather extremes, I am gunshy about installing Hardie on long
unbroken runs. Tough to beat on areas that are just a couple of
pieces (or less) wide, but long runs don't seem to be a good fit with
our weather. I have mitigated the problem of the product expanding
and contracting somewhat by using good quality paint to prime the
backside before installation on the longer runs. Shorter runs still
receive nothing.

I have gone to houses that we clad with cement planking a few years
ago, and in long runs (say 40 - 50' across a house) that stuff moves
like crazy even after a factory rep certified our proper installation
(at the request of the client).

Which leads to the second reason for a "moisture barrier". Slip
sheathing. When you nail off the siding directly onto the wood
(sheathing or studs) it creates enough friction that when the siding
moves it will tear up the connection points. (See Leon's post on the
wallowed out holes further down). The barrier allows the cement
siding to "slip" a bit around the fasteners since it is not directly
nailed to hard contact the wood. Since movement can/will cause
spalling and thus loose siding, why take any kind of chance? I
can't. I have to warrant my product.

That is why on a shed or an open shop we just use 15# or 30# felt.
Works great, and cheap, too.

30# please ...

Your above is why I use "vent skin" construction on a house finished
with siding products, particularly in our "hot, humid climate" building
zone.

By layer, as follows: sheathing; 30# felt (or tyvek); vertical 1x4's @
16" OC installed thru/to soffit/attic floor; siding nailed to 1x4's.

(Note: I don't like to blind nail cement board using this method and
would rather putty nail holes prior to painting.)

The resultant 3/4" gap between the sheathing and siding from first
course all the way into atic (with a 9" screen folded over 1x4's at the
bottom to keep out insects"), PLUS ridge vent(s), will insure a
continuous flow of air moving up the sides of the structure and out the
roof vent.

Any moisture that does penetrate the siding will be mitigated by said
air flow, which keeps thing dry over the long haul.

An excellent construction method where high wind and rain is expected.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 10/5/2010 8:05 AM, Leon wrote:

Gotta agree with using a moisture barier to keep the contents dry.

I thought this conversation sounded familiar, googled and the below came up.

http://www.diyprojects.info/bb/ftopic599.html

dejavu all over again ... from six years ago. And what got us working
together on kitchens.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Leon" wrote in message
...

..

Gotta agree with using a moisture barier to keep the contents dry. My
shed went through Hurricane Ike a bouple of years ago and not a drop of
water came in. I did however use the more expensive Tyvek sheathing over
tar paper. I used the Tyvek over tar paper for two reasons, I did not
want to smell the tar smell inside the shed on a hot summer day and the
Tyvek is white not black, that helps the interior to be lighter inside
when the door is the only source of light.


Correction, I chose Tyvek over tar paper, I did not use Tyvek on top of tar.
That did not come out clearly, Imagine...

"willshak" wrote in message
...

Perhaps the moisture barrier is also to prevent water wicking through the
hardie board into the wood studs?


That AND the hole that the fastener is not a tight one, Hardi does not seal
up tight against the fastener like wood will. If the fasteners are exposed
and not "perfectly" seated water can come through the hardi at the fastener.

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
eb.com...


Home Desperate has 4 x 8 Hardi panels - looks just like T111.

And weighs a Briazillion pounds. ;~)

Leon: I did not want to smell the tar smell inside the shed on a hot
summer day...

I thought dust, spider webs and dirt dauber nests seals off that tar
smell from the work area....

Sonny

On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 16:51:27 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Leon" wrote in message
...

.

Gotta agree with using a moisture barier to keep the contents dry. My
shed went through Hurricane Ike a bouple of years ago and not a drop of
water came in. I did however use the more expensive Tyvek sheathing over
tar paper. I used the Tyvek over tar paper for two reasons, I did not
want to smell the tar smell inside the shed on a hot summer day and the
Tyvek is white not black, that helps the interior to be lighter inside
when the door is the only source of light.


Correction, I chose Tyvek over tar paper, I did not use Tyvek on top of tar.
That did not come out clearly, Imagine...

The way you're saying it, the tar paper is next to the studs and the
building smells like tar. You meant to say tar paper over Tyvek,
right? The layers are studs, tyvek, tarpaper, siding, in order of
installation.

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 16:33:10 -0700 (PDT), Sonny
wrote:

Leon: I did not want to smell the tar smell inside the shed on a hot
summer day...

I thought dust, spider webs and dirt dauber nests seals off that tar
smell from the work area....

So do insulation and finished inside walls. They also make the place a
lot nicer place to visit in the middle of summer or dead of winter.

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

On Oct 5, 2:28*pm, Swingman wrote:

OK... me first.

On Oct 5, 1:03 pm, "
wrote:

That is why on a shed or an open shop we just use 15# or 30# felt.
Works great, and cheap, too.

Robert

Your above is why I use "vent skin" construction on a house finished
with siding products, particularly in our "hot, humid climate" building
zone.

I said shed or an open shop, you said house. On a house, I use the
paper/Tyvek combo.

I was trying to keep in context in my post.

Naww..... just messin' with you.

By layer, as follows: sheathing; 30# felt (or tyvek); vertical 1x4's @
16" OC installed thru/to soffit/attic floor; siding nailed to 1x4's.

A reluctant SNIP of really good stuff...

An excellent construction method where high wind and rain is expected.

Excellent, indeed. That really sounds like the stuff, there. I have
heard of similar installation processes, but *never* that detailed or
well thought out.

Is that a KarlCo © original detail? If so, it's a keeper. I am going
to bookmark that one for future reference. Every once in a while we
replace wood siding on a heavy sun facing with Hardie, and that really
seems like the detail we need on a house.

Impressive. No kidding. I have been thinking that over for a couple
of hours. Impressive...

As one of my colleagues likes to say, "I think I'll put that one in my
pocket and take it with me."

Have you gotten any feedback from the clients where you have followed
this detail about siding movement or heat transfer?

My BIGGEST problem is movement, mainly shrinkage. We have used that
crap recommended by Hardie call "Big Stretch", and that was the worst
latex elastomeric crap I have ever used. Made it two seasons on the
sun side of the house without tearing. I never have any bulging
joints (I only buy from a yard that properly stores the planking) but
I always have some shrinkage. I push them up tight, and they still
shrink as much about 1/8" during the droughts, but close back up when
the rainy season starts. (You know, also known as winter around
here.)

Priming the backside has mitigated that a bit, but certainly not
eliminated it.

Any thoughts on that, whilst on this topic?

Robert

On Oct 5, 3:28*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 10/5/2010 1:03 PM, wrote:



Bingo. *And that is 75% of the reason you have a moisture barrier.
Having attended more than one cementitious product installation
instructional seminar they all agree to that. *That is also why they
STRONGLY recommend a suitable paint over the siding.

With our weather extremes, I am gunshy about installing Hardie on long
unbroken runs. *Tough to beat on areas that are just a couple of
pieces (or less) wide, but long runs don't seem to be a good fit with
our weather. *I have mitigated the problem of the product expanding
and contracting somewhat by using good quality paint to prime the
backside before installation on the longer runs. *Shorter runs still
receive nothing.

I have gone to houses that we clad with cement planking a few years
ago, and in long runs (say 40 - 50' across a house) that stuff moves
like crazy even after a factory rep certified our proper installation
(at the request of the client).

Which leads to the second reason for a "moisture barrier". *Slip
sheathing. *When you nail off the siding directly onto the wood
(sheathing or studs) it creates enough friction that when the siding
moves it will tear up the connection points. * (See Leon's post on the
wallowed out holes further down). *The barrier allows the cement
siding to "slip" a bit around the fasteners since it is not directly
nailed to hard contact the wood. *Since movement can/will cause
spalling and thus loose siding, why take any kind of chance? *I
can't. *I have to warrant my product.

That is why on a shed or an open shop we just use 15# or 30# felt.
Works great, and cheap, too.

30# please ...

Your above is why I use "vent skin" construction on a house finished
with siding products, particularly in our "hot, humid climate" building
zone.

By layer, as follows: sheathing; 30# felt (or tyvek); vertical 1x4's @
16" OC installed thru/to soffit/attic floor; siding nailed to 1x4's.

(Note: I don't like to blind nail cement board using this method and
would rather putty nail holes prior to painting.)

It sounds like you routinely set the nails below the surface and then
putty. Am I reading that wrong?

The resultant 3/4" gap between the sheathing and siding from first
course all the way into atic (with a 9" screen folded over 1x4's at the
bottom to keep out insects"), PLUS ridge vent(s), will insure a
continuous flow of air moving up the sides of the structure and out the
roof vent.

A common variation around here is to have the vented rain screen vent
at the top of the wall and the air does not enter the attic space.
There's a move to unvented with spray foam insulation, which prevents
any air at all from getting into the attic. A similar folded screen
'cap' is at the top of the wall vent screen, and it is hidden by
horizontal trim running under the soffit.

R