"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 16:51:27 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Leon" wrote in message
...

.

Gotta agree with using a moisture barier to keep the contents dry. My
shed went through Hurricane Ike a bouple of years ago and not a drop of
water came in. I did however use the more expensive Tyvek sheathing
over
tar paper. I used the Tyvek over tar paper for two reasons, I did not
want to smell the tar smell inside the shed on a hot summer day and the
Tyvek is white not black, that helps the interior to be lighter inside
when the door is the only source of light.


Correction, I chose Tyvek over tar paper, I did not use Tyvek on top of
tar.
That did not come out clearly, Imagine...

The way you're saying it, the tar paper is next to the studs and the
building smells like tar. You meant to say tar paper over Tyvek,
right? The layers are studs, tyvek, tarpaper, siding, in order of
installation.


No, I meant to say that there was NO tar paper, I only used Tyvek. Given a
choice of which one to use I chose Tyvek over tar paper. The layers are
studs, Tyvek, then siding.

"Sonny" wrote in message
...
Leon: I did not want to smell the tar smell inside the shed on a hot
summer day...

I thought dust, spider webs and dirt dauber nests seals off that tar
smell from the work area....

Sonny

Interestingly in the last 6 or so years, no ovbious signs of bugs in the
store room.

On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 13:31:25 -0700 (PDT), RonB
wrote:

We are planning construction of a garden shed to store garden tractor,
yard tools, and "stuff" (and regain use of my garage shop). We are
considering Smart Siding, Hardi Panel and T-11 (T1-11). Like the
looks of T-11 but have been unable to find pressure treated siding
used on some factory built buildings.

The Hardi panel looks good but their installation instructions require
a moisture barrier. This is a utility building and the siding will
also serve as sheeting. No interior finish. Will the cement fiber
panel hold up to long term use without sheeting and moisture barrier?
I have used a product similar to Smart and the building looks good
after 25 years but there is concern with Hardi.

Any Experience?


No strength in tension if you mount Hardi panel with out backing it is
real easy to break. Would not do Hardi panel without plywood under it.
Your friend might just lean right on through it.

Mark

On 10/5/2010 11:24 PM, wrote:

Is that a KarlCo © original detail? If so, it's a keeper. I am going
to bookmark that one for future reference. Every once in a while we
replace wood siding on a heavy sun facing with Hardie, and that really
seems like the detail we need on a house.

The idea has been around for years. A similar method sometimes call a
"rain skin" has been used in more Northern climates for sometime and
this is basically and adaptation of that, but with venting into attics
equipped with ridge vents to move the air.

A very simple concept, and one that uses nature alone to provide the
benefit ... no moving parts or fuel costs.

You won't find much about skin vent construcion, or literature on it. It
is not something usually seen in the industry, therefore most have never
heard of it, and like all things unknown, will not embrace it unless
someone else does it first and leads the way

Architects are familiar with the principles behind it, and one of the
most notable architect/builders in this area has also been building this
way for years.

It makes a world of sense in certain climates if you think about it.
After all, the siding on a house is non structural in nature, can be
thought of as simply as skin protecting the structure from the elements,
so why not incorporate air flow, by use of a void space between the
siding and sheathing in that protection, allowing quick drying of any
moisture intrusion, something which is likely in hot, humid climates
that are subjected to periodic high winds and rain.

It doesn't take a rocket surgery mentality to realize the benefits, just
some thinking outside the normal. Most builders are deadly afraid to do
anything that is not traditional, or that adds cost.

In this case, the cost is minnimal ... the 1x4 stock being the only real
cost. Labor to do it is no more than what the normal siding/cornice crew
would charge, so you shouldn't see an increase in labor costs at all.
Your painter might charge a bit more for filling nail holes due to my
own penchant to not blind nailing, but I've never noticed a difference
in a painters overall bid because of that.

What's few hundred bucks for a correspondingly bigger bang for those bucks.

That said, it is money spent where the average home buyer can't see it
.... an anathema to 99% of builders.

Impressive. No kidding. I have been thinking that over for a couple
of hours. Impressive...

As one of my colleagues likes to say, "I think I'll put that one in my
pocket and take it with me."

Have you gotten any feedback from the clients where you have followed
this detail about siding movement or heat transfer?

Going on over ten years and no known problems thus far. I did my own
home this way, FIRST. You gotta eat your own dog food.

My BIGGEST problem is movement, mainly shrinkage. We have used that
crap recommended by Hardie call "Big Stretch", and that was the worst
latex elastomeric crap I have ever used. Made it two seasons on the
sun side of the house without tearing. I never have any bulging
joints (I only buy from a yard that properly stores the planking) but
I always have some shrinkage. I push them up tight, and they still
shrink as much about 1/8" during the droughts, but close back up when
the rainy season starts. (You know, also known as winter around
here.)

Priming the backside has mitigated that a bit, but certainly not
eliminated it.

I've never seen abnormal movement with nailing Hardi siding to 1x4's @
16" OC ... AAMOF, probably less ... although I have no statistical
evidence to back it up, visually there have been no issues that I'm
aware of.

That said, this works very well in the "hot, humid" building zone along
the Gulf Coast, and I have absolutely no experience using it in drier
building zones.

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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Oct 7, 8:28*am, Swingman wrote:

* SNIP *

THANKS for the great instruction and the time to type it out, Karl. I
really like that detail. A lot.

Robert

On Oct 7, 8:28 am, Swingman wrote:

Going on over ten years and no known problems thus far. I did my own
home this way, FIRST. You gotta eat your own dog food.

WOOF!

I like it! Somehow, I would expect nothing less from you. The more I
think about this detail the more I like it.

SNIP

That said, this works very well in the "hot, humid" building zone along
the Gulf Coast, and I have absolutely no experience using it in drier
building zones.

I went to a couple of free seminars years ago that Southwest Research
put on for our builder's association that concerned airflow and its
relation to cooling and heating a house.

They were very keen on air movement, regardless of the climate, unless
of course looking at extremes. (For example, the same insulative
processes wouldn't be used in Anchorage as Arizona).\

It was the same idea that got me onto ridge vent on houses almost 20
years ago. Yours truly was one (if not the first) to start putting
ridge venting on houses.

The sold me by showing me a video from an independent lab of two
small, one room buildings of about 250 sq ft. with conventional
turbines (2) on one and continuous ridge vent installed on the other.

They set of a mil spec pink smoke bomb in the attic to test the air
flow.

The attic space (eyeballed about a 5/12) was timed to see how long it
took the smoke to be completely exchanged with clean, fresh air from
outside.

The turbine roof took over two hours! The roof with the ridge vent
took just a little over twenty minutes to clear the smoke. The amount
of heat that was whisked away was incredible. I was so impressed that
I contacted Owens Corning and they sent me copies of the VHS tape that
I saw and I used them as sales tools.

I certainly don't see how a continuous air flow powered by mother
nature's heat would work any differently on your siding detail than on
a roof/attic detail. It is the same exact principle, so I would
expect the same results. Good results.

Thanks for taking the time to type all that out, and the good
explanation that came with it.

*thumbsup*

Robert

On Oct 8, 2:07*pm, "
wrote:

I certainly don't see how a continuous air flow powered by mother
nature's heat would work any differently on your siding detail than on
a roof/attic detail. *It is the same exact principle, so I would
expect the same results. *Good results.

An attic always has more heat gain, even if shaded by trees, than
siding on the North side of the building, so the temperature
differential and the chimney effect is greatly reduced.

The eave/ridge vents are there to remove heat, and to some degree,
moisture. Rain screen design is meant to reduce moisture, and has an
added benefit of reducing heat gain, but heat gain is not always a bad
thing - at least not in all climates. I want all the heat gain I can
get in winter.

R

On 10/8/2010 1:54 AM, wrote:
On Oct 7, 8:28 am, wrote:

* SNIP *

THANKS for the great instruction and the time to type it out, Karl. I
really like that detail. A lot.

You're most welcome, Robert ... just a minuscule installment payback on
the spraying advice!


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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)