Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat. I ground the ends of the blade to about
45 degrees and cleaned the ends with sandpaper. I put on plenty
of flux and wedged a small piece of silver solder in the scarf joint.
Both ends are held in a jig so nothing moves during the soldering.
The saw blade is 3/16 wide and .025 thick. I'm using oatey 53013
silver solder. I'm using a propane torch w/ pencil tip burner.
I've tried heating just till the solder melts & flows, and hotter, up to
the blade turning a cherry red. Nothing worked.
So what am I doing wrong? technique? Wrong solder?
Art

On 6/10/10 7:39 PM, Artemus wrote:
Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat. I ground the ends of the blade to about
45 degrees and cleaned the ends with sandpaper. I put on plenty
of flux and wedged a small piece of silver solder in the scarf joint.
Both ends are held in a jig so nothing moves during the soldering.
The saw blade is 3/16 wide and .025 thick. I'm using oatey 53013
silver solder. I'm using a propane torch w/ pencil tip burner.
I've tried heating just till the solder melts& flows, and hotter, up to
the blade turning a cherry red. Nothing worked.
So what am I doing wrong? technique? Wrong solder?
Art


I'm pretty sure they needed to be welded.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 6/10/2010 6:02 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/10/10 7:39 PM, Artemus wrote:
Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat.

(...)

So what am I doing wrong? technique? Wrong solder?
Art


I'm pretty sure they needed to be welded.


Never having done that, I feel qualified to advise that this
guy *has* done that:

http://homemetalshopclub.org/news/dec03/dec03.html

Scroll about 75% down the page.

[Spoiler] The scarf must be *very long*; cut at a shallow
angle. This guy advises a 1/2" long lap, not
0.025" long.

--Winston

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 17:39:31 -0700, "Artemus"
wrote:

Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat. I ground the ends of the blade to about
45 degrees and cleaned the ends with sandpaper. I put on plenty
of flux and wedged a small piece of silver solder in the scarf joint.
Both ends are held in a jig so nothing moves during the soldering.
The saw blade is 3/16 wide and .025 thick. I'm using oatey 53013
silver solder. I'm using a propane torch w/ pencil tip burner.
I've tried heating just till the solder melts & flows, and hotter, up to
the blade turning a cherry red. Nothing worked.
So what am I doing wrong? technique? Wrong solder?

I've only welded blades, not brazed them, but I'm going to guess the
blade is cooling fast enough to quench it, making it brittle. After
you've made the joint remove it from your jig, shine it up with
sandpaper, then heat it gently by waving your torch flame around 'til
the steel turns blue. You've tempered the steel enough that it should
no longer be brittle.

--
Ned Simmons

On 6/10/10 8:13 PM, Winston wrote:
On 6/10/2010 6:02 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/10/10 7:39 PM, Artemus wrote:
Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat.

(...)

So what am I doing wrong? technique? Wrong solder?
Art


I'm pretty sure they needed to be welded.


Never having done that, I feel qualified to advise that this
guy *has* done that:

http://homemetalshopclub.org/news/dec03/dec03.html

Scroll about 75% down the page.

[Spoiler] The scarf must be *very long*; cut at a shallow
angle. This guy advises a 1/2" long lap, not
0.025" long.

--Winston


Well, I'll be. Learn something new, every day.
In college, we learned to weld them.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Winston fired this volley in
:

Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat.


Winston! Winston... Winston...

50313 is a lead-free plumbing solder. It's NOT "silver solder" in the
sense of brazing alloys, even if it might contain some silver (which
Oatey does not state in the specs)

First of all, get some 'real' silver solder -- the stuff you buy in the
Forney section of an ACE hardware, or at a welding shop. Second, be
prepared to see the metal red before the solder will flow. The Oatey
53013 will flow at about 700F, which will barely make the blade smoke,
much less glow dull cherry red.

LLoyd

IIRC We always welded them and then did some annealing process to soften the
weld so it wasn't brittle by giving shots or current after the weld and
grind. Been a long time since then...LOL


"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
news I've only welded blades, not brazed them, but I'm going to guess the
blade is cooling fast enough to quench it, making it brittle. After
you've made the joint remove it from your jig, shine it up with
sandpaper, then heat it gently by waving your torch flame around 'til
the steel turns blue. You've tempered the steel enough that it should
no longer be brittle.

--
Ned Simmons

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 17:39:31 -0700, "Artemus"
wrote:

Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat. I ground the ends of the blade to about
45 degrees and cleaned the ends with sandpaper. I put on plenty
of flux and wedged a small piece of silver solder in the scarf joint.
Both ends are held in a jig so nothing moves during the soldering.
The saw blade is 3/16 wide and .025 thick. I'm using oatey 53013
silver solder. I'm using a propane torch w/ pencil tip burner.
I've tried heating just till the solder melts & flows, and hotter, up to
the blade turning a cherry red. Nothing worked.
So what am I doing wrong? technique? Wrong solder?

"Winston" wrote in message
...
On 6/10/2010 6:02 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/10/10 7:39 PM, Artemus wrote:
Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat.

(...)

So what am I doing wrong? technique? Wrong solder?
Art


I'm pretty sure they needed to be welded.


Never having done that, I feel qualified to advise that this
guy *has* done that:

http://homemetalshopclub.org/news/dec03/dec03.html

Scroll about 75% down the page.

[Spoiler] The scarf must be *very long*; cut at a shallow
angle. This guy advises a 1/2" long lap, not
0.025" long.

--Winston

Aha! Thanks Winston, that's a nice site. He's using 1/2" on a .035
blade so 3/8" on my .025 ought to be in the ballpark. Now to figure
out how to do it - the Dremels out for sure. I've give it a shot on the
grinder or beltsander.
Art

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
Winston fired this volley in
:

Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat.


Winston! Winston... Winston...

50313 is a lead-free plumbing solder. It's NOT "silver solder" in the
sense of brazing alloys, even if it might contain some silver (which
Oatey does not state in the specs)

First of all, get some 'real' silver solder -- the stuff you buy in the
Forney section of an ACE hardware, or at a welding shop. Second, be
prepared to see the metal red before the solder will flow. The Oatey
53013 will flow at about 700F, which will barely make the blade smoke,
much less glow dull cherry red.

LLoyd

It is soldering and not brazing that I'm trying to do so I don't *think* I
need the 'real' stuff. I'm attempting to do what these guys are doing without
buying their package.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...azing-Kit.aspx
As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.
Art

On 6/10/2010 6:53 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in
:

Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat.


Winston! Winston... Winston...

50313 is a lead-free plumbing solder. It's NOT "silver solder" in the
sense of brazing alloys, even if it might contain some silver (which
Oatey does not state in the specs)

First of all, get some 'real' silver solder -- the stuff you buy in the
Forney section of an ACE hardware, or at a welding shop. Second, be
prepared to see the metal red before the solder will flow. The Oatey
53013 will flow at about 700F, which will barely make the blade smoke,
much less glow dull cherry red.

Heh! I asked Ernie about reassembling my 10" chef's knife with
*Real* silver solder. He advised the use of the *barely* silver
solder rather than the real stuff because of possible temper loss.

Ergo, I figured that my Oatey 5% lead-free, cadmium-free would be
plenty good for bandsaw blades.

Now I'm confused.

Relurking.

--Winston

On Jun 10, 10:09*pm, "Artemus" wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in messagenews:Xns9D93DEAA4F54Blloydspmindspringcom@2 16.168.3.70...





Winston fired this volley in
:

Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat.

Winston! *Winston... Winston...

50313 is a lead-free plumbing solder. It's NOT "silver solder" in the
sense of brazing alloys, even if it might contain some silver (which
Oatey does not state in the specs)

First of all, get some 'real' silver solder -- the stuff you buy in the
Forney section of an ACE hardware, or at a welding shop. *Second, be
prepared to see the metal red before the solder will flow. *The Oatey
53013 will flow at about 700F, which will barely make the blade smoke,
much less glow dull cherry red.

LLoyd

It is soldering and not brazing that I'm trying to do so I don't *think* I
need the 'real' stuff. *I'm attempting to do what these guys are doing without
buying their package.http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...-Deluxe-Bandsa...
As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.
Art- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Lloyd is right. You're using a soft solder and it’ll never hold for
this job. The real silver solder that you need is a hard solder and
melts at a brazing temperature. Usually you use oxy-acetylene for
silver soldering. You just have the wrong tools to do this job
properly. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering

On 2010-06-11, Artemus wrote:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...azing-Kit.aspx
As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.

You can count on it. True silver solder is not gonna melt with that
joke kit. At the very least you will probably need propylene fuel, if
not oxy/acetylene. Quit clowning around and invest in a welder.

http://www.harborfreight.com/280-amp...lder-3663.html

nb

On 6/10/2010 7:58 PM, Artemus wrote:

(...)

Aha! Thanks Winston, that's a nice site. He's using 1/2" on a .035
blade so 3/8" on my .025 ought to be in the ballpark. Now to figure
out how to do it - the Dremels out for sure. I've give it a shot on the
grinder or beltsander.

As Lloyd and Ted mentioned, the higher silver content solder
(ca. 45-50%) is probably what you really want.

Beware though!

Compatible flux is critical. Match the flux to your solder
WRT temperature or be very frustrated! DAMHIKT

--Winston

You CAN silver solder band saw blades, very well, with a propane torch
and hard silver solder. Been there, done that with never a break. You
don't have to weld them.

CP

PS: I have only done it up to 1/2".

On 2010-06-11, Winston wrote:

Compatible flux is critical. Match the flux to your solder
WRT temperature or be very frustrated! DAMHIKT

This is the best flux for silver solder. You need the Stay-Silv
white. Note the temps. A propane torch should get you there. Still
better off with the welder. Good luck.

nb

Nearly all solder is silver, although some looks grey, and some old stuff
may have rust stains on it if it's been on a rusty steel spool.

If you can wind the solder around a finger for several turns without serious
discomfort, it's soft solder.
Soft solders that contain silver are more clearly referred to as
silver-bearing solder.

Hard silver solders are hard wire, stiffer than copper wire, more like
brazing rods in stiffness. Even mild steel wire isn't as stiff as hard
solders.

Brazing is the process for joining parts with hard silver solders. Brazing
steel is identically the same operation, and if you've brazed steel, you're
familiar with red-hot temperatures, flux flowing, etc.
Oxy-acetylene or MAPP gas (used with a MAPP torch) are both capable of
brazing bandsaw blades. Some say that MAPP won't work, but I've brazed and
silver soldered steel parts with much more mass than the lap joint of a
bandsaw blade, so I know MAPP brazes. Maybe some folks don't get the right
results because of the torch that the MAPP is used with.

Silver soldering bandsaw blades can also be performed with electrical
brazing fixtures. I found an old machine specifically designed to braze
bandsaw blades with hard silver solder. The machine doesn't force the ends
of the blade stock to fuse together the way a blade resistance welder does..
it just uses electrical current to generate heat in the blade stock joint so
the flux and hard solder make a secure scarfed joint.

Electric bandsaw blade welding is generally accomplished with squared ends
being butt welded together by resistance welding.

Electric bandsaw blade brazing is approached in the same way as (gas)
brazing of the scarfed joint.

--
WB
..........


"Artemus" wrote in message
...
Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat. I ground the ends of the blade to about
45 degrees and cleaned the ends with sandpaper. I put on plenty
of flux and wedged a small piece of silver solder in the scarf joint.
Both ends are held in a jig so nothing moves during the soldering.
The saw blade is 3/16 wide and .025 thick. I'm using oatey 53013
silver solder. I'm using a propane torch w/ pencil tip burner.
I've tried heating just till the solder melts & flows, and hotter, up to
the blade turning a cherry red. Nothing worked.
So what am I doing wrong? technique? Wrong solder?
Art

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:49:54 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:


Well, I'll be. Learn something new, every day.
In college, we learned to weld them.

Every place that I've ever had blades made welded em..
You'd think that solder would be way too soft..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Jun 10, 6:39*pm, "Artemus" wrote:
Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat. *I ground the ends of the blade to about
45 degrees and cleaned the ends with sandpaper. *I put on plenty
of flux and wedged a small piece of silver solder in the scarf joint.
Both ends are held in a jig so nothing moves during the soldering.
The saw blade is 3/16 wide and .025 thick. *I'm using oatey 53013
silver solder. *I'm using a propane torch w/ pencil tip burner.
I've tried heating just till the solder melts & flows, and hotter, up to
the blade turning a cherry red. *Nothing worked.
So what am I doing wrong? *technique? * Wrong solder?
Art

Yep, wrong stuff, as the other posters have said. If you google up
"bandsaw blade brazing jig", you'll get a ton of hits, including how-
to videos. Won't go into the usual rant about calling silver brazing
silver soldering, you've found out the difference. If you want the
right stuff at the welding supply, you ask for "silver brazing
filler", or you'll end up with mostly tin soft solder. The next
question will be what alloy and there you'll have to see what they
have, literally hundreds of alloys and trade names out there, what
I've got available here isn't going to be what anyone else will have
around. You'll need the line sheet for what they carry and decide
what you need from the properties listed.

Used to be HF had a cheap kit including a jig, apparently no longer.
A jig can be made out of a length of aluminum angle and a couple of
bulldog clips. Whack a gap in the center of the piece on one side for
joint clearance, put the untouched side in the vise and use the
bulldog clips to hold the blade ends in position in the gap. You can
scarf the ends by flipping one, placing them on top of each other even-
up and grinding both at the same time. Angles match that way and any
fore-and-aft angular mis-match is compensated for if you grind things
straight. You've got to have things spotless, including the silver
braze itself, degrease with acetone, MEK or the brake cleaner of
choice. For this sort of work, you need almost foil thickness for the
filler, hammer what you get down really thin, sandwich a sliver
between the ends. It was supplied that way in the kits. Flux has to
match, too. The blades are pretty thin, so unless you use some really
high-temp braze, a turbo torch should work. See what the line sheet
says for the alloy, it'll have melting points on it, and choose one
that's lower temp. Air-acetylene or oxy-acetylene will be faster,
probably won't do the job any better and definitely will cost more.
If you really want to go fancy, you could use some stop-off or anti-
flux to keep your after-action filing and cleanup down to a reasonable
amount. I've used it on gun work to keep the filler from wicking all
over a part, won't do a job without it now.

Have read of hammering out a silver dime, using solid borax for a flux
and a kerosene blowtorch for doing the job in a really old book, so
they've been brazing ends together a looong time. A lot longer than
there have been dedicated pushbutton electric welding machines to do
the job.

Stan

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:58:09 -0700, "Artemus" wrote:

Just thought I'd throw this in:
I wouldn't even attempt to weld/solder a NEW blade, much less a broken one..
WHY did it break? Old? Bound up? Bad weld?
If any of the above, I wouldn't reuse the blade anyway..
I buy good blades for less than $15 each (105") and if it's dull, bent or
whatever, it gets recycled.. Not worth the few bucks I might save to take a
chance on a bad joint popping loose and ruining the work or a body part, IMHO..


"Winston" wrote in message
...
On 6/10/2010 6:02 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/10/10 7:39 PM, Artemus wrote:
Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat.

(...)

So what am I doing wrong? technique? Wrong solder?
Art


I'm pretty sure they needed to be welded.


Never having done that, I feel qualified to advise that this
guy *has* done that:

http://homemetalshopclub.org/news/dec03/dec03.html

Scroll about 75% down the page.

[Spoiler] The scarf must be *very long*; cut at a shallow
angle. This guy advises a 1/2" long lap, not
0.025" long.

--Winston

Aha! Thanks Winston, that's a nice site. He's using 1/2" on a .035
blade so 3/8" on my .025 ought to be in the ballpark. Now to figure
out how to do it - the Dremels out for sure. I've give it a shot on the
grinder or beltsander.
Art



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Winston fired this volley in
:

Heh! I asked Ernie about reassembling my 10" chef's knife with
*Real* silver solder. He advised the use of the *barely* silver
solder rather than the real stuff because of possible temper loss.

Ergo, I figured that my Oatey 5% lead-free, cadmium-free would be
plenty good for bandsaw blades.

Now I'm confused.

Plumbing solder is a "soft solder". It's designed to melt at low
temperatures, is brittle when frozen, and is NOT designed to be
structural in any sense -- it's job is to seal a joint well against
leakage when sweated properly.

Your knife repair would have been better served by making the repair with
a good hard solder, then re-hardening and re-tempering the blade.

LLoyd

fired this volley in news:45566318-1852-4a1d-8b86-
:

If you really want to go fancy, you could use some stop-off or anti-
flux to keep your after-action filing and cleanup down to a reasonable
amount. I've used it on gun work to keep the filler from wicking all
over a part, won't do a job without it now.


"Smoking out" the part with an un-oxygenated acetylene flame, avoiding or
cleaning only the work zone is a quick way to mask your work, and it works
fine.

LLoyd

On 6/11/2010 2:36 AM, mac davis wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:58:09 -0700, wrote:

Just thought I'd throw this in:
I wouldn't even attempt to weld/solder a NEW blade, much less a broken one..
WHY did it break? Old? Bound up? Bad weld?
If any of the above, I wouldn't reuse the blade anyway..
I buy good blades for less than $15 each (105") and if it's dull, bent or
whatever, it gets recycled.. Not worth the few bucks I might save to take a
chance on a bad joint popping loose and ruining the work or a body part, IMHO..

Perhaps he cut it deliberately in order to make an inside cut-this is
commonplace in metalworking and many band saws intended for that purpose
have a blade welder attached.

wrote in message
...
On 6/10/2010 6:02 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/10/10 7:39 PM, Artemus wrote:
Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat.

(...)

So what am I doing wrong? technique? Wrong solder?
Art


I'm pretty sure they needed to be welded.


Never having done that, I feel qualified to advise that this
guy *has* done that:

http://homemetalshopclub.org/news/dec03/dec03.html

Scroll about 75% down the page.

[Spoiler] The scarf must be *very long*; cut at a shallow
angle. This guy advises a 1/2" long lap, not
0.025" long.

--Winston

Aha! Thanks Winston, that's a nice site. He's using 1/2" on a .035
blade so 3/8" on my .025 ought to be in the ballpark. Now to figure
out how to do it - the Dremels out for sure. I've give it a shot on the
grinder or beltsander.
Art



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Use a TIG welder


"Artemus" wrote in message
...
Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat. I ground the ends of the blade to about
45 degrees and cleaned the ends with sandpaper. I put on plenty
of flux and wedged a small piece of silver solder in the scarf joint.
Both ends are held in a jig so nothing moves during the soldering.
The saw blade is 3/16 wide and .025 thick. I'm using oatey 53013
silver solder. I'm using a propane torch w/ pencil tip burner.
I've tried heating just till the solder melts & flows, and hotter, up to
the blade turning a cherry red. Nothing worked.
So what am I doing wrong? technique? Wrong solder?
Art

On 6/11/2010 4:25 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in
:

Heh! I asked Ernie about reassembling my 10" chef's knife with
*Real* silver solder. He advised the use of the *barely* silver
solder rather than the real stuff because of possible temper loss.

Ergo, I figured that my Oatey 5% lead-free, cadmium-free would be
plenty good for bandsaw blades.

Now I'm confused.

Plumbing solder is a "soft solder". It's designed to melt at low
temperatures, is brittle when frozen, and is NOT designed to be
structural in any sense -- it's job is to seal a joint well against
leakage when sweated properly.

Your knife repair would have been better served by making the repair with
a good hard solder, then re-hardening and re-tempering the blade.

Yup. That makes sense. Thanks!

--Winston

"Artemus" wrote in message
...

It is soldering and not brazing that I'm trying to do so I don't *think* I
need the 'real' stuff. I'm attempting to do what these guys are doing
without
buying their package.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...azing-Kit.aspx
As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.
Art



what's wrong with drilling a hole in each end and running a rivet through
it?





;~)

"Leon" fired this volley in
:

what's wrong with drilling a hole in each end and running a rivet
through it?


MY bandsaws have guide rollers. mebby yours don't...

LLoyd

Thump! Thump!.. Oh Sh&t!! It just tore a great big hole in my metal piece
when the rivet went by again.

That would be like putting a volt through the middle of a handsaw blade.


"Leon" wrote in message
...
what's wrong with drilling a hole in each end and running a rivet through
it?



"Artemus" wrote in message
...

It is soldering and not brazing that I'm trying to do so I don't *think* I
need the 'real' stuff. I'm attempting to do what these guys are doing
without
buying their package.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...azing-Kit.aspx
As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.
Art






;~)

On 6/11/10 3:04 PM, Josepi wrote:
Thump! Thump!.. Oh Sh&t!! It just tore a great big hole in my metal piece
when the rivet went by again.

That would be like putting a volt through the middle of a handsaw blade.


wrote in message
...
what's wrong with drilling a hole in each end and running a rivet through
it?



And a big, woooosh over both of you.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:09:29 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

what's wrong with drilling a hole in each end and running a rivet through
it?
;~)

**** disturber.

Didn't know you had it in you.

-MIKE- wrote:

On 6/11/10 3:04 PM, Josepi wrote:
Thump! Thump!.. Oh Sh&t!! It just tore a great big hole in my metal piece
when the rivet went by again.

That would be like putting a volt through the middle of a handsaw blade.


wrote in message
...
what's wrong with drilling a hole in each end and running a rivet through
it?


And a big, woooosh over both of you.


Flying rivets are too small to woooosh. ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 03:58:45 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2010-06-11, Artemus wrote:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...azing-Kit.aspx
As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.

You can count on it. True silver solder is not gonna melt with that
joke kit. At the very least you will probably need propylene fuel, if
not oxy/acetylene. Quit clowning around and invest in a welder.

http://www.harborfreight.com/280-amp...lder-3663.html

nb


I've just read the manual for that welder...

You chaps are allowed to play with guns, why don't you do something useful
with them and reduce the number of lawyers infesting your country :-|


Mark Rand
RTFM

Mark Rand wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 03:58:45 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2010-06-11, Artemus wrote:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...azing-Kit.aspx
As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.

You can count on it. True silver solder is not gonna melt with that
joke kit. At the very least you will probably need propylene fuel,
if not oxy/acetylene. Quit clowning around and invest in a welder.

http://www.harborfreight.com/280-amp...lder-3663.html

nb


I've just read the manual for that welder...

You chaps are allowed to play with guns, why don't you do something
useful with them and reduce the number of lawyers infesting your
country :-|


They breed.

The number of women in law school greatly exceeds the number of men.

It's terrible.

"Artemus" wrote in message
...

It is soldering and not brazing that I'm trying to do so I don't *think* I
need the 'real' stuff. I'm attempting to do what these guys are doing
without
buying their package.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...azing-Kit.aspx
As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.

No, they are not. Are they being serious? That little torch is a joke. I
have a couple and they will not heat anything unless it is very small. I
would not be surprised if the solder joint as demonstrated were rather poor.
The saw blade is going to conduct the heat away from the joint faster than
that torch will heat it even if you *can* keep it lit :-) Note that the
picture of the final result in the video was not seen well, if at all.

OTOH I wonder if using one of these pastes would be an option. I like the
concept of precise application to the joint:

http://www.riogrande.com/MemberArea/...440=Base+Metal

Has anyone used them?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

As usual you guys are right on target. The miserable scarf joint
I had was the biggest problem. I hand ground a new one about
1/4"(a sloppy job) and (using the same Oatey solder) soldered up
a real blob, but it held. Next I built a jig to hold both ends at the
same time, and after fiddling with adjusting it, I got some real nice
matching 5/16" scarfs. Pounding the solder wire to a thin sheet,
careful application of the flux to just the scarf faces and the propane
torch got me a reasonably nice looking splice. It held my weight
without failing and bent at a 1/2" radius with no failure. The cross
section area of the blade is .025 x .125 and I weigh 180 lbs so I
calculate that's 57,600 PSI tension - well over the 15,000 PSI in
actual use.

The blade is too short to go back on the saw but it gives me plenty
of material to practice my technique on. They always seem break
at the factory weld so I don't think I need to worry about a tired blade
as someone pointed out. I'll keep the 50% Ag stuff in mind should I
have problems with the wider blades.
Thanks to all who responded.
Art

On Jun 11, 9:17*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:

As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.

No, they are not. Are they being serious? That little torch is a joke. I
have a couple and they will not heat anything unless it is very small. I
would not be surprised if the solder joint as demonstrated were rather poor.
The saw blade is going to conduct the heat away from the joint faster than
that torch will heat it even if you *can* keep it lit :-) Note that the
picture of the final result in the video was not seen well, if at all.


Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I have silver brazed ( often called silver soldering ) numerous things
using small propane torches. Propane is hot enough. It is no problem
to silver braze bandsaw blades using silver braze. I have done it.
Silver brazing larger objects takes some thought. Insulating fire
bricks ( IFB ) are useful. You can take some IFB's and build a little
corner that keeps the heat from being conducted away. Silver braze
flows at dull red heat.


Dan

On Jun 11, 9:45*pm, "Artemus" wrote:
As usual you guys are right on target. *The miserable scarf joint
I had was the biggest problem. *I hand ground a new one about
1/4"(a sloppy job) and (using the same Oatey solder) soldered up
a real blob, but it held. *

Thanks to all who responded.
Art

One tip on grinding the scarf joint. Take the bandsaw blade and twist
it so that the sides that need to be ground are both on the same side
and next to eachother. Then grind both ends simultaneously. Helps to
get the same angle on both ends.

Dan

On 6/11/2010 6:45 PM, Artemus wrote:
As usual you guys are right on target. The miserable scarf joint
I had was the biggest problem. I hand ground a new one about
1/4"(a sloppy job) and (using the same Oatey solder) soldered up
a real blob, but it held. Next I built a jig to hold both ends at the
same time, and after fiddling with adjusting it, I got some real nice
matching 5/16" scarfs. Pounding the solder wire to a thin sheet,
careful application of the flux to just the scarf faces and the propane
torch got me a reasonably nice looking splice. It held my weight
without failing and bent at a 1/2" radius with no failure. The cross
section area of the blade is .025 x .125 and I weigh 180 lbs so I
calculate that's 57,600 PSI tension - well over the 15,000 PSI in
actual use.

The blade is too short to go back on the saw but it gives me plenty
of material to practice my technique on. They always seem break
at the factory weld so I don't think I need to worry about a tired blade
as someone pointed out. I'll keep the 50% Ag stuff in mind should I
have problems with the wider blades.
Thanks to all who responded.

Please keep us posted.

There is a lot of tribal knowledge advising against use of
'soft solder' for band saw blade welding. I am interested
to know your experiences with longevity of the joint.

Thanks!

--Winston

Mark Rand wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 03:58:45 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2010-06-11, Artemus wrote:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...azing-Kit.aspx
As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.

You can count on it. True silver solder is not gonna melt with that
joke kit. At the very least you will probably need propylene fuel, if
not oxy/acetylene. Quit clowning around and invest in a welder.

http://www.harborfreight.com/280-amp...lder-3663.html

nb

I've just read the manual for that welder...

You chaps are allowed to play with guns, why don't you do something useful
with them and reduce the number of lawyers infesting your country :-|


Typical British attitude. Encourage others to do what you don't have
the stomach for.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Comrade technomaNge wrote:

On 06/11/2010 02:09 PM, Leon wrote:



what's wrong with drilling a hole in each end and running a rivet through
it?


Excellent idea. Where on the lawyers should we drill?
I'm guessing heart area, plenty of room where the heart
should be.


Forget their skull. Too thick for a rivet. Maybe a 'blind' rivet?
;-)

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Artemus" wrote in message
...
snip---

It is soldering and not brazing that I'm trying to do so I don't *think* I
need the 'real' stuff. I'm attempting to do what these guys are doing
without
buying their package.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...azing-Kit.aspx
As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.
Art

That's your mistake. You don't "think" you need the 'real' stuff.

You do.

Lead free solder has no tensile strength to speak of. It doesn't come
close to resembling silver solder, even if it *is* silver bearing solder.

Get the 'real' stuff and enjoy success, although you must have a greater lap
area if you don't want to experience joint failure.

Harold