On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:53:19 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Winston fired this volley in
:

Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat.


Winston! Winston... Winston...

50313 is a lead-free plumbing solder. It's NOT "silver solder" in the
sense of brazing alloys, even if it might contain some silver (which
Oatey does not state in the specs)

First of all, get some 'real' silver solder -- the stuff you buy in the
Forney section of an ACE hardware, or at a welding shop. Second, be
prepared to see the metal red before the solder will flow. The Oatey
53013 will flow at about 700F, which will barely make the blade smoke,
much less glow dull cherry red.

LLoyd

If he sends me an address..Ill send him a bit of actuall Silver solder

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:09:29 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

what's wrong with drilling a hole in each end and running a rivet through
it?
;~)

**** disturber.

Didn't know you had it in you.

You must be missing about 1/2 my posts. LOL

Artemus wrote:
Obviously I'm doing something wrong here as my joints are brittle
and don't hold worth squat. I ground the ends of the blade to about
45 degrees and cleaned the ends with sandpaper. I put on plenty
of flux and wedged a small piece of silver solder in the scarf joint.
Both ends are held in a jig so nothing moves during the soldering.
The saw blade is 3/16 wide and .025 thick. I'm using oatey 53013
silver solder. I'm using a propane torch w/ pencil tip burner.
I've tried heating just till the solder melts & flows, and hotter, up to
the blade turning a cherry red. Nothing worked.
So what am I doing wrong? technique? Wrong solder?
Art



Looks like I'll be using some of the advice on this thread in the near
future to repair a blade and shorten a new one. One blade broke today so
I went to put a brand new Lenox Diemaster 2 blade on the 4x6 and
tightened it up and the adjuster went solid, on checking the blade is
too long and the upper wheel hits the casting, bummer!. I've used dozens
of the Lenox blades and not had this problem before, no blade welder so
silver soldering will be the answer.

On 6/12/2010 12:08 PM, David Billington wrote:

(...)

Looks like I'll be using some of the advice on this thread in the near
future to repair a blade and shorten a new one.

I'm interested in your results.

Please share.

Thanks!

-- Winston

I have purchased boxes of a half dozen alloys of silver solder.
Some are vary hard and require a hotter flame, others flexible
and a lower flame.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 6/11/2010 9:12 PM, wrote:
On Jun 11, 9:17 pm, "Michael wrote:

As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.

No, they are not. Are they being serious? That little torch is a joke. I
have a couple and they will not heat anything unless it is very small. I
would not be surprised if the solder joint as demonstrated were rather poor.
The saw blade is going to conduct the heat away from the joint faster than
that torch will heat it even if you *can* keep it lit :-) Note that the
picture of the final result in the video was not seen well, if at all.


Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I have silver brazed ( often called silver soldering ) numerous things
using small propane torches. Propane is hot enough. It is no problem
to silver braze bandsaw blades using silver braze. I have done it.
Silver brazing larger objects takes some thought. Insulating fire
bricks ( IFB ) are useful. You can take some IFB's and build a little
corner that keeps the heat from being conducted away. Silver braze
flows at dull red heat.


Dan

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
.. .

"Artemus" wrote in message
...
snip---

It is soldering and not brazing that I'm trying to do so I don't *think*
I
need the 'real' stuff. I'm attempting to do what these guys are doing
without
buying their package.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...azing-Kit.aspx
As they use a butane torch I doubt they really are brazing.
Art

That's your mistake. You don't "think" you need the 'real' stuff.

You do.

Lead free solder has no tensile strength to speak of. It doesn't come
close to resembling silver solder, even if it *is* silver bearing solder.

Get the 'real' stuff and enjoy success, although you must have a greater
lap area if you don't want to experience joint failure.


Amen to that!

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On 2010-06-13, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

Some are vary hard and require a hotter flame, others flexible
and a lower flame.

Silver soldering is sometimes referred to as hard soldering.

It's become more confusing because old style rosin core electronics
soldering is going leadless and slowly replacing the lead in lead/tin
solder with a percentage of silver. When I used to hard solder large
stainless steel vacuum components to copper and brass fittings, we
called it hard soldering and it was the "hard" high silver content
solder that came in long thin rods like brazing rods and required
oxy/ecetylene to bring up to useful temps. Of course I'm talking
heavy metal mass, not thin saw blades. Bernzomatic torches may be
enough for thin saw blades. The key is the flux. That Sta-Silv
flux is the best. Very forgiving of wide range of temps, even
severe overheating.

nb

On 6/12/2010 8:43 PM, notbob wrote:

(...)
Bernzomatic torches may be enough for thin saw blades.
The key is the flux. That Sta-Silv flux is the best.

The black 'high temperature' stuff rather than the white stuff, yes?

--Winston

On 2010-06-13, Winston wrote:

The black 'high temperature' stuff rather than the white stuff, yes?

The black is primarily for stainless steel, but we used both
interchangably. If I were buying only one for general use, I'd go
with the black.

The stuff is water soluble, so it will eventually dry out and become
crusted over in the container, even completely dry out. Even new jars
sometimes have a crystaline crust on the top. Not to worry. Just add
water and remix. Its normal consistancy is a paste, about right to
put on with a simple acid brush or small spatula knife. Don't be
afraid to lay it on thick. Better too much than too little.

When the joint is hot enough (dull red), the flux will bubble and boil
and then become like warm honey, flowing everywhere and filling and
whetting the joint. Add the solder to the edge of the joint and let
it flow into the joint. If it doesn't flow into the joint, it isn't
hot enough or you used too little flux. Try and use only as much
solder as needed. Too much and it will flow out the bottom and drip
and you will end up having to grind down the blade so it will fit in
the guides.

Water will clean up the post solder flux crust. A good stainless
steel brush, the fine ones that look like a tooth brush or a small
wheel is good to dress it all up.

nb

On 6/13/2010 7:44 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2010-06-13, wrote:

The black 'high temperature' stuff rather than the white stuff, yes?

The black is primarily for stainless steel, but we used both
interchangably. If I were buying only one for general use, I'd go
with the black.

The stuff is water soluble, so it will eventually dry out and become
crusted over in the container, even completely dry out. Even new jars
sometimes have a crystaline crust on the top. Not to worry. Just add
water and remix. Its normal consistancy is a paste, about right to
put on with a simple acid brush or small spatula knife. Don't be
afraid to lay it on thick. Better too much than too little.

When the joint is hot enough (dull red), the flux will bubble and boil
and then become like warm honey, flowing everywhere and filling and
whetting the joint. Add the solder to the edge of the joint and let
it flow into the joint. If it doesn't flow into the joint, it isn't
hot enough or you used too little flux. Try and use only as much
solder as needed. Too much and it will flow out the bottom and drip
and you will end up having to grind down the blade so it will fit in
the guides.

Water will clean up the post solder flux crust. A good stainless
steel brush, the fine ones that look like a tooth brush or a small
wheel is good to dress it all up.


Excellent. Thanks!

--Winston