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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted
pdf pictures of them on my web site: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than mine..). The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port. It Does happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?). Any guiding thoughts welcome! Thanks! Bill |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 23:55:09 -0400, "Bill" wrote:
I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted pdf pictures of them on my web site: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than mine..). The Unisaw is a RT (mirror image of mine) with a Biesemeyer fence. Can't tell how long because the fence is cut off in the picture. It doesn't look too old, but I'm not a Unisaw dating expert. The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port. No information on the jointer. It Does happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?). It should have one. The actual port may or may not be there, of course, but the part should be available. Any guiding thoughts welcome! If you can get the saw at the right price, go for it. Make sure all the pieces are there. Does it run? Rust? |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
wrote in message ... On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 23:55:09 -0400, "Bill" wrote: I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted pdf pictures of them on my web site: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than mine..). The Unisaw is a RT (mirror image of mine) with a Biesemeyer fence. Can't tell how long because the fence is cut off in the picture. It doesn't look too old, but I'm not a Unisaw dating expert. The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port. No information on the jointer. It Does happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?). It should have one. The actual port may or may not be there, of course, but the part should be available. Any guiding thoughts welcome! If you can get the saw at the right price, go for it. Make sure all the pieces are there. Does it run? Rust? Thank you for your feedback! I suspect the TS runs--and it probably got a share of use too based on the number of tools that are part of the estate. None of them look new. I'm not sure, but my guesstimate is that it could cost as much as $300 to have the TS moved (even though they wouldn't have to move it very far). Does your saw easily separate into 3 parts that could be moved by two people with a dolly and a U-Haul truck? Don't take the word "easily" too seriously...I just wonder what I'm up against. I may call a mover before I bid! : ) Since you were able to give me the model number, I'll try to learn more about the TS online--thanks! Bill |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"Bill" wrote in message ... I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted pdf pictures of them on my web site: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ It looks like the front rail of the saw, is not parallel with the edge of the top--it looks like the rail is slanting downward to the right. Does this suggest a problem? |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"Bill" wrote in message ... I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted pdf pictures of them on my web site: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ In case anyone likes old-looking tools, I added a DP. Is this 1950's vintage? It's not running on phase-3 power, is it? |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"Bill" wrote in message ... "Bill" wrote in message ... I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted pdf pictures of them on my web site: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ It looks like the front rail of the saw, is not parallel with the edge of the top--it looks like the rail is slanting downward to the right. Does this suggest a problem? Looks like a bad photo angle to me... the camera angle is introducing distortion. |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On 06/04/2010 10:55 PM, Bill wrote:
I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted pdf pictures of them on my web site: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than mine..). The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port. It Does happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?). Any guiding thoughts welcome! Thanks! Bill The jointer is the Delta 8" Professional model. It's basically this one: http://www.mikestools.com/37-380-del...l-jointer.aspx It's a pretty decent machine. Yes, it will have a 4" dust collection port, but of all the machines in a shop, jointers make probably the least amount of dust. I have that same model in the 6" width, and I got by for years by removing the dust port and simply placing a little trash can underneath the dust chute (which angles downwards away from the cutting area) and 90% of the shavings just fall right into it. -- What percentage of the driving populace do you suppose actually understands the rules of engagement at a four-way stop? To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
I would expect the auction site listing to include whether or not the
tools have single or 3 phase motors and some semblance of the working condition of the tools. As best I can tell, they are all single phase, but I can't be absolutely sure. If the auction site is well known, I would expect the bidding on the table saw to reach at least $600. $300 is wishful thinking. Even at $600 to $800, I think the deal would be reasonable, if the motor is single phase. I wouldn't bid more than half the price of a new saw. Though there may seem to be a discrepancy with the front rail alignment to the table top, that may be a product of the picture. The rail, itself, looks straight. If it is bent, it is bent at the location of the fence and it is hard to imagine how the rail would become bent at that location. I would expect the jointer to go for about $600, as well. My bidding guesstimates are based on my online auction bidding and observations experience for similar tools. I wouldn't expect that shop to have updated tools and still have a 1950s vintage drill press. That drill press is much more recent than 1950. Those are nice tools. It takes a hell of a lot of abuse to damage those quality of tools. I suspect they run and run well. I would suspect they are in good shape. If there is some "damage", it is likely to be minor. Sonny |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
This is what I do to the home made port added to my 1949 4" Homecraft /
Delta jointer. The chips collect nice in a bag / garbage can. Mike in Ohio snip It's a pretty decent machine. Yes, it will have a 4" dust collection port, but of all the machines in a shop, jointers make probably the least amount of dust. I have that same model in the 6" width, and I got by for years by removing the dust port and simply placing a little trash can underneath the dust chute (which angles downwards away from the cutting area) and 90% of the shavings just fall right into it. |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 02:10:01 -0400, "Bill"
wrote: Thank you for your feedback! I suspect the TS runs--and it probably got a share of use too based on the number of tools that are part of the estate. None of them look new. I'm not sure, but my guesstimate is that it could cost as much as $300 to have the TS moved (even though they wouldn't have to move it very far). Does your saw easily separate into 3 parts that could be moved by two people with a dolly and a U-Haul truck? Don't take the word "easily" too seriously...I just The saw is a late model right tilt Uni with what looks to be the commercial 52" Biesemeyer fence. It's a good saw and as others have mentioned, you might check to see if it's 3 phase. Moving it is not much of a problem if you have a helper. The top comes off with 4 bolts and you can leave the fence connected if you are careful and have help to move it. Removing the motor is a good idea. That takes the pressure off the trunnions when moving. After that, it can be wheeled around easily. Mike O. |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 23:55:09 -0400, "Bill"
wrote: I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted pdf pictures of them on my web site: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than mine..). The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port. It Does happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?). Any guiding thoughts welcome! Thanks! Bill I think it was Swingman but not sure used a tow truck with a tilt deck to move their saw. Seemed to me to be a pretty elegant solution. Still not cheap but an easy move with no dismantling required. Mike M |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 02:10:01 -0400, "Bill" wrote:
wrote in message .. . On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 23:55:09 -0400, "Bill" wrote: I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted pdf pictures of them on my web site: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than mine..). The Unisaw is a RT (mirror image of mine) with a Biesemeyer fence. Can't tell how long because the fence is cut off in the picture. It doesn't look too old, but I'm not a Unisaw dating expert. The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port. No information on the jointer. It Does happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?). It should have one. The actual port may or may not be there, of course, but the part should be available. Any guiding thoughts welcome! If you can get the saw at the right price, go for it. Make sure all the pieces are there. Does it run? Rust? Thank you for your feedback! I suspect the TS runs--and it probably got a share of use too based on the number of tools that are part of the estate. None of them look new. I'm not sure, but my guesstimate is that it could cost as much as $300 to have the TS moved (even though they wouldn't have to move it very far). Does your saw easily separate into 3 parts that could be moved by two people with a dolly and a U-Haul truck? Don't take the word "easily" too seriously...I just wonder what I'm up against. With two people and a dolly? *Easily*, whole. It weighs about 600lbs, but it's not awkward at all. You might want to bring a couple of 2x's to use as blocking to lift it so you can slide the dolly under. Getting it into a truck might be more difficult, but a trailer should be a piece of cake. I may call a mover before I bid! : ) Since you were able to give me the model number, I'll try to learn more about the TS online--thanks! That's a good plan. Don't get caught in a bidding war, though. |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 10:36:35 -0500, Mike O. wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 02:10:01 -0400, "Bill" wrote: Thank you for your feedback! I suspect the TS runs--and it probably got a share of use too based on the number of tools that are part of the estate. None of them look new. I'm not sure, but my guesstimate is that it could cost as much as $300 to have the TS moved (even though they wouldn't have to move it very far). Does your saw easily separate into 3 parts that could be moved by two people with a dolly and a U-Haul truck? Don't take the word "easily" too seriously...I just The saw is a late model right tilt Uni with what looks to be the commercial 52" Biesemeyer fence. It's a good saw and as others have mentioned, you might check to see if it's 3 phase. Moving it is not much of a problem if you have a helper. The top comes off with 4 bolts and you can leave the fence connected if you are careful and have help to move it. Removing the motor is a good idea. That takes the pressure off the trunnions when moving. After that, it can be wheeled around easily. Note that these things are shipped from the factory in one piece (top on, wings off) so, other than ease of moving, I don't see a reason to pull it apart. *DON'T LIFT IT BY THE TOP OR WINGS. |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 06:12:20 -0700 (PDT), Sonny wrote:
I would expect the auction site listing to include whether or not the tools have single or 3 phase motors and some semblance of the working condition of the tools. As best I can tell, they are all single phase, but I can't be absolutely sure. If the auction site is well known, I would expect the bidding on the table saw to reach at least $600. $300 is wishful thinking. Even at $600 to $800, I think the deal would be reasonable, if the motor is single phase. I wouldn't bid more than half the price of a new saw. Just for a data point, I bought a new LT version of that saw for $1600 last year. $600 to $800 would be a good price, assuming it is in good condition (very little rust, nothing missing, 1PH, and working). Can you inspect it? As others have noted, if it's 3PH it'll be a problem for a home owner. If it's a 5HP it'll take some serious wiring, but certainly not impossible. Though there may seem to be a discrepancy with the front rail alignment to the table top, that may be a product of the picture. The rail, itself, looks straight. If it is bent, it is bent at the location of the fence and it is hard to imagine how the rail would become bent at that location. I would highly doubt that it's bent far enough to see in a picture. If you can see it, leave it. I would expect the jointer to go for about $600, as well. My bidding guesstimates are based on my online auction bidding and observations experience for similar tools. I wouldn't expect that shop to have updated tools and still have a 1950s vintage drill press. That drill press is much more recent than 1950. ?? Is it or not? You never know. The saw could have been replaced. It looks newer than '50s to me. Again, I'm not an expert. Those are nice tools. It takes a hell of a lot of abuse to damage those quality of tools. I suspect they run and run well. I would suspect they are in good shape. If there is some "damage", it is likely to be minor. Look for rust. It can be cleaned, but it'll reduce its value considerably, IMO. |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
Bill wrote:
.... It's not running on phase-3 power, is it? I'd agree w/ other poster that info ought to be available but this is obviously a home shop and the likelihood of there being 3-phase is quite low. While again it's not possible to be absolutely certain, I'd say the likelihood of those having come from anywhere except purchased new by the owner is minimal at the highest. 3-phase stuff generally will be found in industrial auctions where the gear came from production shop facilities where 3-phase is readily available, not from estate sales. There may be the one-off fella' you'll find who did buy old industrial gear and add a converter or modify it, but it's not the norm by any stretch. But, you'll certainly want to know definitively _before_ bidding altho the prices you can expect to see will be significantly less for 3-phase gear unless there's a pro in the audience... But, of course, then you have to factor in what the converter's going to run... -- |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On Jun 4, 11:55*pm, "Bill" wrote:
I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. *I posted pdf pictures of them on my web site: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than mine..). The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port. *It Does happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?). *Any guiding thoughts welcome! Thanks! Bill That is a lot of saw. I agree with dpb that the odds of it being 3- phase are slim. Going by the graphic on the Bies... I'd say no more than 15 years old which is nothing. Look for nasty(deep pitted) rust. It isn't a deal-breaker but should drop the price. The possibility of that front box beam of the fence being bent is almost impossible to imagine. That jointer is a perfect candidate for a spiral segmented insert cutter head. Great tool. That DP?....meh... |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"Robatoy" wrote in message ... On Jun 4, 11:55 pm, "Bill" wrote: I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted pdf pictures of them on my web site: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than mine..). The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port. It Does happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?). Any guiding thoughts welcome! Thanks! Bill That is a lot of saw. I agree with dpb that the odds of it being 3- phase are slim. Going by the graphic on the Bies... I'd say no more than 15 years old which is nothing. Look for nasty(deep pitted) rust. It isn't a deal-breaker but should drop the price. The possibility of that front box beam of the fence being bent is almost impossible to imagine. That jointer is a perfect candidate for a spiral segmented insert cutter head. Great tool. Thank you all for all of the comments and suggestions. From reading his obituary, it is clear that the original owner was really into his stuff, having a metal shop and a wood shop (and a car collection and an "old auto-parts related sign" collection, other memorabilia, etc...). He probably could have taught us a few good lessons. RIP. |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"Robatoy" wrote in message news:27da3acf-486b-43a6-a46f- That jointer is a perfect candidate for a spiral segmented insert cutter head. Great tool. http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/935 I thought you might enjoy this review (written by someone who made the substitution). Bill |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
wrote in message ... On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 06:12:20 -0700 (PDT), Sonny wrote: I would expect the auction site listing to include whether or not the tools have single or 3 phase motors and some semblance of the working condition of the tools. As best I can tell, they are all single phase, but I can't be absolutely sure. If the auction site is well known, I would expect the bidding on the table saw to reach at least $600. $300 is wishful thinking. Maybe I'll be the only bidder that morning? : ) Maybe I can get them to throw in a box of blades? : ) Thank you for helping me with the numbers. I'll provide an update with the selling prices in case anyone is curious. Bill |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 22:13:34 -0400, "Bill" wrote:
wrote in message .. . On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 06:12:20 -0700 (PDT), Sonny wrote: I would expect the auction site listing to include whether or not the tools have single or 3 phase motors and some semblance of the working condition of the tools. As best I can tell, they are all single phase, but I can't be absolutely sure. If the auction site is well known, I would expect the bidding on the table saw to reach at least $600. $300 is wishful thinking. Maybe I'll be the only bidder that morning? : ) Maybe I can get them to throw in a box of blades? : ) Thank you for helping me with the numbers. I'll provide an update with the selling prices in case anyone is curious. Sure. Win or lose. |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"Bill" wrote in message ... I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted pdf pictures of them on my web site: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I arranged a preview of the TS today at the auction site today. I could look past the repaired rust spots in the table, but the several deeper 1/4"-3/8" wide scrapes across the top of the table (caused by what I haven't a clue) left me feeling like I could do better. Someone pushing large pieces through the saw might not have their work affected, but I can already hear myself grumbling when my smaller work might get stuck in some of the those scrapes. I appreciate better now why "mirror finish" is a standard. The thing about estate auctions is that I get the impression I'm the 25+ person to have looked things over, and that most "interesting" things (like hand planes, for example), that weren't nailed down was already been picked up. There was still a "ton of" stuff. A whole drawer full (and I mean full!) of screwdrivers--hardly any sockets or wrenches. Few, if any, power hand tools or bits. Go figure. Bill |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
The thing about estate auctions is that I get the impression I'm the 25+ person to have looked things over, and that most "interesting" *things (like hand planes, for example), that weren't nailed down was already been picked up. *There was still a "ton of" stuff. Is this an auction or an estate garage sale? Your description, here, seems to indicate a garage sale type venue. Despite wide scrapes (?) in the table saw top, don't underestimate that saw. If the sale is, in fact, a garage sale, those scrapes are a bargaining advantage for you. A gouge, to me, is/may be different than a severe scrape, as for as affecting cutting results. What is the prospect of being able to reasonable repair those scrapes, for good reliable use, until you can better repair or replace the top? Your subsequent description still hasn't convinced me the saw is not worth $400, $500, $600. Sure, you can always do better, but when and at what greater cost (maybe)? At the same time, I don't doubt your ability to evaluate the tools, especially after an onsite inspection. The scrapes/gouges: Someone accidently gouged it with a router or "skilsaw" when using it as a work bench? If there is a burr(s) sticking up, file and/or sand it down, maybe? Sonny |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"Sonny" wrote in message ... I'll precede my comments with -- Is this an auction or an estate garage sale? Your description, here, seems to indicate a garage sale type venue. --It's an auction held by a company, but will be held at the site of the shop. Upon my request, they let me view the TS early. If they are wise they should remove everything from the shop before the auction starts and move it out to the yard/driveway. Your subsequent description still hasn't convinced me the saw is not worth $400, $500, $600. Sure, you can always do better, but when and at what greater cost (maybe)? --I do not doubt that the saw is worth $400-500. My plan was to buy the Grizzly G0690 (~$1200), so I'm not getting sticker shock. If you happen to have read another thread I started, then you may know have been arranging the details of the 240v wiring now. I think that your assessment that someone might have gouged it with a skilsaw is right on. In fact. they (more than) scratched it up completely--probably using it as a workbench as you mentioned. BTW, in view of the confined work area of this shop, that makes the most sense. You are insightful, Sonny! Anyway, the tabletop is unsightful. Having a new tabletop on the saw would change my outlook on it. I still have time to look into that possibility. I do not anticipate that this option is viable but I'm considering it now. At the same time, I don't doubt your ability to evaluate the tools, especially after an onsite inspection. --Don't give me too much credit, I'm a relative newbe buying my first and, most-likely, last TS. I removed the throat plate insert to see what kind of splitter, if any, might be present. There was piece of plastic perhaps 1" by 2", with a large vee on the end in there. The saw is a Delta Unisaw Platinum Edition. Can anyone describe how that mechanism "works"? This saw had a "dust bag" connected at the bottom (I presume a DC attached there may not be quite as effective as on some more modern saws). --So for another $600 (twice the price), I could get a saw with a riving knife, having a top with a mirrror finish, probably better dust collection, simpler delivery to my house, and a warrantee. The Delta saw did sound great (I haven't heard a Grizzly). The Delta TS did not appear to have a fine adjustment mechanism on it's Beisemeyer fence (surely it's an older model ~15 years). --Your post was helpful. As always, thank you for helping me think!! Bill |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"Sonny" wrote in message ... What is the prospect of being able to reasonable repair those scrapes, for good reliable use, until you can better repair or replace the top? I checked on the replacement cost of the top--$639.95 (S&H, extra). If this was a contest my guess would have been Really close. That's why I think I have to pass. But I may go watch the auction just in case... Bill |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
I didn't realize a new top was so expensive. Mike's Tools lists for
$579.... plus whatever S&H to your area. Consider this option, maybe: Since you'll go watch the bidding and even with a defected top, set a limit of (say) $200, bid up to that amount and no more. Don't respond to (accept) the auctioneer's opening asking amount, especially if it's unreasonable high. If someone does accept the opening asking amount, then just play it by ear. That initial bidder is most likely an impulse buyer. By not responding to the auctioneer's opening asking amount, he'll be forced to lower the starting asking amount. If no bidders respond immediately to the auctioneer's initial asking, a bidder may announce (offer) his own starting bid, usually much lower than the auctioneer's initial asking. You don't have to accept the auctioneer's initial asking amount. He simply wants to start as high as he can. The idea is for the smart bidder to control the bidding, not the auctioneer. Don't exceed your spending limit. Don't get excited and become an impulse buyer. Prior to the saw bidding, observe bidding on other items. This will give a idea of what kind of crowd is bidding, i.e., knowledgeable bidders or impulse buyers, and how much money they are willing to spend (is their spending/bidding reasonable to the value of items or are they spending too much for items). Take note of a bidder who flashes his money or talks money, prior to bidding... don't get into a bidding war with this type of impulse buyer/braggart. Again, set your spending limit and don't exceed that limit. Sonny Sonny |
#26
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"Sonny" wrote in message ... I didn't realize a new top was so expensive. Mike's Tools lists for $579.... plus whatever S&H to your area. Consider this option, maybe: Since you'll go watch the bidding and even with a defected top, set a limit of (say) $200, bid up to that amount and no more. Don't respond to (accept) the auctioneer's opening asking amount, especially if it's unreasonable high. Thank you. Your suggestion is darn close to what I had in mind. I confess that I'm not the best auction bidder. Sometimes I forget and feel like I'm in some sort of competition--which it is, but of course you know that the goal is not to win the competition at any cost! I've won a few I should have let go of... You proffered good advice! Bill |
#27
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"dadiOH" wrote in message news:aILPn.34518$U64.16377@hurricane... It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new one. For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be fully functional. Very true. I should have run some pieces of wood across the top to see how much the added friction affected them. I still have a chance. Thank you for your interest. Bill |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"Bill" writes:
"dadiOH" wrote in message news:VmOPn.13794$aO4.543@hurricane... Bill wrote: "dadiOH" wrote in message news:aILPn.34518$U64.16377@hurricane... It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new one. For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be fully functional. Very true. I should have run some pieces of wood across the top to see how much the added friction affected them. I still have a chance. Thank you for your interest. Bill Gouges, scratches, missing chunks would *decrease* friction, not increase it. I don't believe I agree that an abundance of scratches would *decrease* friction at all. To the touch, they create a rougher surface, not a smooother one. A FILE provides a self-evident contradiction. If I take a face jointed board and place it on my very flat tablesaw, it can be difficult to move because it creates, for want of a better word, a vacuum which tends to hold the board in place. Gouges in the surface, so long as they did not protrude _above_ the surface, would relieve that vacuum allowing the workpiece to move more easily, not to mention the reduced surface to surface contact region which would also work to reduce friction. scott |
#29
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Considering Used Tools
"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message ... If I take a face jointed board and place it on my very flat tablesaw, it can be difficult to move because it creates, for want of a better word, a vacuum which tends to hold the board in place. Gouges in the surface, so long as they did not protrude _above_ the surface, would relieve that vacuum allowing the workpiece to move more easily, not to mention the reduced surface to surface contact region which would also work to reduce friction. scott We are talking about scratches, not like the indentations of a corrugated hand plane. Think of the corners at the top of a scratch more like a scraper (and pieces of wood do not tend to be perfectly flat either, especilly near the ends). A little wax may help in the best or the worst case. I've written everything I know about this. Best, Bill |
#30
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 22:07:06 -0400, "Josepi" wrote:
This is also a common misconception about wide tires. (then they have to put studs in them to lessen the surface area) Wide tires increase the lateral friction, useful for cornering. For a given air pressure, pick your dimension of interest and the other falls out. |
#31
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
More surface area decreases traction. A needle has a lot of weight per area
and doesn't slip. A polished surface has more surface area and slides much better. However in tires this article and a few more makes a liar out of me and you. They claim the contact surface area does not change the friction. hmmmmm.... http://www.worsleyschool.net/science...dfriction.html wrote in message news Wide tires increase the lateral friction, useful for cornering. For a given air pressure, pick your dimension of interest and the other falls out. On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 22:07:06 -0400, "Josepi" wrote: This is also a common misconception about wide tires. (then they have to put studs in them to lessen the surface area) |
#32
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"Bill" wrote in
: I arranged a preview of the TS today at the auction site today. I could look past the repaired rust spots in the table, but the several deeper 1/4"-3/8" wide scrapes across the top of the table (caused by what I haven't a clue) left me feeling like I could do better. Someone pushing large pieces through the saw might not have their work affected, but I can already hear myself grumbling when my smaller work might get stuck in some of the those scrapes. I appreciate better now why "mirror finish" is a standard. *snip* Bill If the scratches aren't very deep, perhaps you could have a local company mill the top. That would restore your flat top, at the risk of a couple pounds of iron. I've got no idea how much it would cost, it may be only marginally cheaper than replacing it. Puckdropper -- Never teach your apprentice everything you know. |
#33
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On Jun 9, 10:45*pm, "Bill" wrote:
"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message ... If I take a face jointed board and place it on my very flat tablesaw, it can be difficult to move because it creates, for want of a better word, a vacuum which tends to hold the board in place. * Gouges in the surface, so long as they did not protrude _above_ the surface, would relieve that vacuum allowing the workpiece to move more easily, not to mention the reduced surface to surface contact region which would also work to reduce friction. scott We are talking about scratches, not like the indentations of a corrugated hand plane. Think of the corners at the top of a scratch more like a scraper (and pieces of wood do not tend to be perfectly flat either, especilly near the ends). A little wax may help in the best or the worst case. *I've written everything I know about this. Best, Bill My gut tells me to top your bid a $400.00. Live with the scratches because milling the tops and wings(need to be done at the same time, really) is way more work and expense than what that saw deserves. |
#34
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
My gut tells me to top your bid a $400.00.
It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new one. For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be fully functional. dadiOH I agree with both above. I still think the saw is worth at least $600 (*single phase motor). Despite the poor quality of the picture, the saw's top (or any other aspect) doesn't look bad. The scrapes or gouges can't be that bad, or there be that many, as to make the saw disfunctional, even with small pieces of wood. The scrapes or gouges have to be by accident... no woodworker would repeatedly or seriously damage their Unisaw and unless the saw was sabotaged, it has to still be in good or very reasonable shape (gouging the top is not the way to sabotage a saw, if one had a mind to). I can't imagine those scrapes or gouges are so serious that some minor filing of burrs (if applicable), or the like, can't render the top into some very good shape for normal use. Just because it may look unsightly, doesn't make it useless or problematic. The pictures just don't indicate the need for major repair, in order for the saw to function totally, and the onsite inspection report isn't convincing that the top has horrible damage, needing major repair. If the top was warped, then that would be serious. Sonny |
#35
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On Jun 9, 11:20*pm, "Josepi" wrote:
More surface area decreases traction. A needle has a lot of weight per area and doesn't slip. A polished surface has more surface area and slides much better. Wrong. However in tires this article and a few more makes a liar out of me and you. They claim the contact surface area does not change the friction. hmmmmm.....http://www.worsleyschool.net/science...dfriction.html No, it makes a liar out of you. Wide tires have exactly the same surface area as narrow tires (hint: tire pressure). The *profile* of the area changes. |
#36
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
No time to read the article in the link?
wrote in message ... No, it makes a liar out of you. Wide tires have exactly the same surface area as narrow tires (hint: tire pressure). The *profile* of the area changes. On Jun 9, 11:20 pm, "Josepi" wrote: More surface area decreases traction. A needle has a lot of weight per area and doesn't slip. A polished surface has more surface area and slides much better. Wrong. However in tires this article and a few more makes a liar out of me and you. They claim the contact surface area does not change the friction. hmmmmm....http://www.worsleyschool.net/science...dfriction.html |
#37
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
"Sonny" wrote in message ... My gut tells me to top your bid a $400.00. It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new one. For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be fully functional. dadiOH I agree with both above. I still think the saw is worth at least $600 (*single phase motor). The scratches looked better today (perhaps someone worked on them a bit before the auction today) but I would access the overall condition of the saw as good to very good, surely not excellent or like new. I figured that for $500 and the hardship of figuring out how to get it home, that it would have been worth it. This was not an issue as the saw sold for $850 (+ 10% buyer's premium +8% sales tax). Incidently the Jet (bench) drill press, with a cabinet support underneath, went for $110 (+ 10% buyer's premium +8% sales tax) and the Delta 8" jointer went for $225 (+ 10% buyer's premium +8% sales tax). I was tempted to bid on the jointer, but I couldn't justify the amount of space that it would take up at this point. I read its owner's manual online last night, and learned a few things. Lots of stuff at the auction was going real cheap, there was so much of it...boxes and boxes of nails, screws, fasteners, wrenches, sockets, taps--stuff lots of people have, but Mr. West had the resources to store large quanitites of stuff and he evidently took advantage of it. Towards the end, $5 would get you more nails and screws and fasteners than you could carry. For me the question wasn't "Is this a good deal?", it was "Is it worth trying to find a place to store it?" (as virtually all of you surely understand better than I do)! There were lots (dozens) of old automotive-related antique signs--very few went for less than $100 and several larger ones went for as much as $850 (remember the red winged horse--the Marathon logo?). When I saw antique "wall" thermometers going for $135 to $300 and the "rusty ol' signs" going for $700-800, my hopes of getting a good deal on the TS diminished. A fancy antique gas pump went for $1500 (museum quality) and 2 tire pressure machines (the ones where you set the desired pressure with a crank) went for over $500 each! Those didn't impress me much--and from the way the wife of one of the buyer's rolled her eyes, they didn't impress her that much either). Not a decent hand plane in sight. Well, there's the price update I promised. I saved you 5 hours in the hot sun (lovely day though)! Bill |
#38
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On 6/10/2010 6:27 PM, Bill wrote:
and the Delta 8" jointer went for $225 (+ 10% buyer's premium +8% sales tax Damn! That was a smokin' good deal for that jointer... -- "Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
#39
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
Damn! *That was a smokin' good deal for that jointer... Sure was. Thanks for the update, Bill, and better luck next time. BTW, what state are you located in, if you don't mind my asking. Sonny |
#40
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Considering Used Tools
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:23:17 -0400, "Josepi" wrote:
No time to read the article in the link? No time to think? wrote in message ... No, it makes a liar out of you. Wide tires have exactly the same surface area as narrow tires (hint: tire pressure). The *profile* of the area changes. On Jun 9, 11:20 pm, "Josepi" wrote: More surface area decreases traction. A needle has a lot of weight per area and doesn't slip. A polished surface has more surface area and slides much better. Wrong. However in tires this article and a few more makes a liar out of me and you. They claim the contact surface area does not change the friction. hmmmmm....http://www.worsleyschool.net/science...dfriction.html |
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