Leon wrote:
"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
J. Clarke wrote:

It's in "Wood As An Engineering Material", Page 7-11. What they say
is:

"For low-density softwoods, such as the cedars and white pines, 40%
to 70% of the shank diameter; for Douglas-fir and Southern Pine, 60%
to 75%; and for dense hardwoods, such
as oaks, 65% to 85%. The smaller percentage in each range applies to
lag screws of the smaller diameters and the larger percentage to lag
screws of larger diameters."

Excellent reference, J. Thank you for posting that, it is very much
appreciated!

The lag bolt which snapped off had an average shank diameter of
0.182". Sixty percent of this value is 0.1092, while seventy five
percent of this value is 0.1365, which puts a pilot bit of 1/8"
right in the middle.

Jon


BUT Jon,,,,,, While it is a kewl reference that agrees with what you
were using as a pilot hole, how did that work out for you?

The information could be out dated for readily available fasteners
today. If might be a new publication using old data.

The numbers are based on maximizing holding power, not making a crap
fastener survive being driven. They state the assumptions, which are 35,000
PSI yield and 77,000 PSI UTS, slightly higher than required for a Grade 1
bolt.

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

It's in "Wood As An Engineering Material", Page 7-11. What they say
is:

"For low-density softwoods, such as the cedars and white pines, 40%
to 70% of the shank diameter; for Douglas-fir and Southern Pine, 60%
to 75%; and for dense hardwoods, such
as oaks, 65% to 85%. The smaller percentage in each range applies to
lag screws of the smaller diameters and the larger percentage to lag
screws of larger diameters."


I wonder if that material was written in modern years or 30 plus. I
see lag screw failures galore.

Are you saying that the properties of wood have changed so radically in the
last 30 years that lag screws hold differently in them now? Because the
recommendations are not about allowing you to use crap screws without
breaking them while driving, they are about sticking wood together so it
stays stuck.

In article ,
Nate Nagel wrote:

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

And their "bin" machine screws are Grade 2 not Grade 5... who uses
Grade 2 for anything?

Quite obviously, HD customers that don't know better. wry grin

In article ,
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message
...


WTF is a "proly"?

New to Usenet, huh?


No. Just being a pain in the neck. :-)



We'll be sure to let you know _if_ you succeed.

In article m,
Steve wrote:
On 2009-12-16 08:53:25 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
said:

Got an actual hardware store in your town?

And Ace and TruValue don't count.

That depends on the store. I've got a couple of _very_good_ hardware
stores that happen to be part of the ACE co-op nearby. And a first
class one that joined up with TruValue. They've got people that -know-
what they're talking about, _and_ carry a lot of stuff that is not
the Ace/TruValue house label.

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:43:56 -0600, Red Green
wrote:

krw wrote in
:

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:44:49 -0600, Red Green
wrote:

" wrote in
:

On Dec 16, 10:54*am, "CW" wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message

...
. Even the parking at HD is ill-thought out.
--

That varies from store to store. The one closest to me is quite
good as f
or
layout. What is a PIA is that parking spaces have been getting
smaller an
d
smaller.When you pull in to a parking spot, in a Subaru Impreza,
and have
to
be careful not to hit the car next to you with your door as you get
out, it's getting a bit tight. The spacing between rows is getting
smaller too
.
In my F250, I have to park out in "no mans land". I can see the day
when
it
will be impractical to park anything larger than a motorized
skateboard.

That also varies from store to store (they don't always own the
buildings or the land). When I lived in VT I rarely went into the
WallyWorld because the lot was crazy. HD shared the same lot but
that end wasn't as busy so was less of a human obstacle course.
Stores in NE OH had no such problems, nor do the ones here in AL.



HD shared the same lot

Sounds like Williston VT.

Is there another HD in VT? Didn't the Rutland HD close?

Would you like me to drive from NC to find out for you or do you want
Keithw to go from AL to check?

KeithW and krw are the same person. Well, as much as anyone at home
and work can be the same. ;-)

Store locator tab, nahhhhhh...

Too easy.

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:22:17 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"krw" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:24:15 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
ting.com...
On 2009-12-16 08:53:25 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
said:

Got an actual hardware store in your town?

And Ace and TruValue don't count.



Why not?

A few of them might count, but the only resemblance of an Ace or TV to
a real hardware store is purely unintentional.


That really depends on how they're run by the individual owners. The one I
use is pretty remarkable.

I've been in two that were quite good (both in the Poughkeepsie NY
area). All others have been pretty unremarkable.

Steve wrote:

And Ace and TruValue don't count.

What does a purchasing co-op have to do with the quality of an
individual store?

Lew

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Are you saying that the properties of wood have changed so radically in
the
last 30 years that lag screws hold differently in them now?

Well yes actually. Wood with wider growth rings as oppose to narrower more
compact gowth rings, which were more available many years back, may yield
different results today.

Because the
recommendations are not about allowing you to use crap screws without
breaking them while driving, they are about sticking wood together so it
stays stuck.

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:22:17 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"krw" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:24:15 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
sting.com...
On 2009-12-16 08:53:25 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
said:

Got an actual hardware store in your town?

And Ace and TruValue don't count.



Why not?

A few of them might count, but the only resemblance of an Ace or TV to
a real hardware store is purely unintentional.


That really depends on how they're run by the individual owners. The one I
use is pretty remarkable.

I've been in two that were quite good (both in the Poughkeepsie NY
area). All others have been pretty unremarkable.


A pretty high percentage of ALL small businesses fail, and it's not always
because of competition. Why should hardware stores be any different?

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:0009967d$0$2153
:


"Jon Danniken" wrote:

A quality lag bolt was purchased (stainless steel, US made) from a
fastener store.

The US has been out of the general fastener business for decades.

Had a couple of customers who were fastener manufacturers go belly up
while I was still back in Cleveland, a town that was, at one time, a
major fastener manufacturing center.

Most of the S/S comes in from India these days.

*******s!


Lew

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Are you saying that the properties of wood have changed so radically
in the
last 30 years that lag screws hold differently in them now?

Well yes actually. Wood with wider growth rings as oppose to
narrower more compact gowth rings, which were more available many
years back, may yield different results today.

Won't that be reflected in the density though?

Because the
recommendations are not about allowing you to use crap screws without
breaking them while driving, they are about sticking wood together
so it stays stuck.

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:01:34 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"krw" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:22:17 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:24:15 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
osting.com...
On 2009-12-16 08:53:25 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
said:

Got an actual hardware store in your town?

And Ace and TruValue don't count.



Why not?

A few of them might count, but the only resemblance of an Ace or TV to
a real hardware store is purely unintentional.


That really depends on how they're run by the individual owners. The one I
use is pretty remarkable.

I've been in two that were quite good (both in the Poughkeepsie NY
area). All others have been pretty unremarkable.


A pretty high percentage of ALL small businesses fail, and it's not always
because of competition. Why should hardware stores be any different?

Sure, but that's another issue. I was happy when HD came to town. It
made the local lumber yards (2) and Ace Hardware look like the pitiful
places they were (yes, a HD was nice in comparison). The three went
out of business shortly. Good riddance. AIUI two Lowes are opening
up in the area now. I much prefer Lowes, but shop at both.

"Red Green" wrote in message
Most of the S/S comes in from India these days.

*******s!


Lakshi Mittal controls 10% of the steel made in the world.
http://www.arcelormittal.com/

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Are you saying that the properties of wood have changed so radically
in the
last 30 years that lag screws hold differently in them now?

Well yes actually. Wood with wider growth rings as oppose to
narrower more compact gowth rings, which were more available many
years back, may yield different results today.

Won't that be reflected in the density though?


Oh no.... not at all.

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Are you saying that the properties of wood have changed so
radically in the
last 30 years that lag screws hold differently in them now?

Well yes actually. Wood with wider growth rings as oppose to
narrower more compact gowth rings, which were more available many
years back, may yield different results today.

Won't that be reflected in the density though?


Oh no.... not at all.

You're sure?

jaymelone the worthless SPAMMER wrote:
jaymelone had written this in response to
[ snip sucko spammers ]

Guys, just like you wouldn't buy a water heater from Home Depot, I
wouldn't recommend their hardware, either. The quality is
sub-standard and pricing is through the roof.

I'm opening a site online where you'll be able to find any fastener
in any material for any job. We'll also have some pretty cool
features to help you plan your projects and buy the right stuff, and
the right amount, too! We'll even help you contractors out there
engage with and grow your customer base. We have a lot in the works.

I'll write up a new post once the site is up and give you all the
address. I'd even appreciate a few of you helping me test the site
out. I'll definitely make it worth your while.


You're not only a SPAMMING shill for the SUCKO company, you're now going to
further SPAM this group with your own SPAM?

Do us all a favor and go play in the freeway.

Jon

"jaymelone" wrote in message
roups.com...
jaymelone had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...ew-412326-.htm
:
Guys, just like you wouldn't buy a water heater from Home Depot, I
wouldn't recommend their hardware, either. The quality is sub-standard and
pricing is through the roof.

I'm opening a site online where you'll be able to find any fastener in any
material for any job. We'll also have some pretty cool features to help
you plan your projects and buy the right stuff, and the right amount, too!
We'll even help you contractors out there engage with and grow your
customer base. We have a lot in the works.

I have an immediate need for 5 beryllium copper, 1" x 16"
allen head capscrews, 8tpi, with left hand,
double lead buttress threads, polished to a surface finish of
50nm and having a total indicated runout of .0002" and
some plastic wing nuts for same.

basilisk

Oh, bother. I had a couple gross of those. One of my
multiple wives cleaned out the space ship we use to hi to
Kolob, and had all that sent out with the trash. Good thing
she didn't throw out my flashlight.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"basilisk" wrote in message
...

I have an immediate need for 5 beryllium copper, 1" x 16"
allen head capscrews, 8tpi, with left hand,
double lead buttress threads, polished to a surface finish
of
50nm and having a total indicated runout of .0002" and
some plastic wing nuts for same.

basilisk

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Oh, bother. I had a couple gross of those. One of my
multiple wives cleaned out the space ship we use to hi to
Kolob, and had all that sent out with the trash. Good thing
she didn't throw out my flashlight.

I'll bet you would have made me a good deal,
story of my life.

basilisk
.


"basilisk" wrote in message
...

I have an immediate need for 5 beryllium copper, 1" x 16"
allen head capscrews, 8tpi, with left hand,
double lead buttress threads, polished to a surface finish
of
50nm and having a total indicated runout of .0002" and
some plastic wing nuts for same.

basilisk

FWIW, my neighbor asked me and another neighbor to hang her new
LCD TV set, using an arm bracket. Without going into detail, we
needed (4) 1/4" X 6" lags to get the job done really solid. I
sized the pilot hole myself, using the MK22 eyeball device in my
head, and by the way, the hole was drilled with a 5" long bit.

2 of the blasted things torqued off, meaning that we had to adjust
the height of the bracket to remount it. They are a POS and it'll
be a cold day in Hades before I use anything like that in a
project.


--
Nonny

ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.

"basilisk" wrote in message

I have an immediate need for 5 beryllium copper, 1" x 16"
allen head capscrews, 8tpi, with left hand,
double lead buttress threads, polished to a surface finish of
50nm and having a total indicated runout of .0002" and
some plastic wing nuts for same.


They are 79¢ at Home Depot, but I think the Lowes 35 mile up the road has
them for only 77¢ so take the trip to find out for sure before you buy and
waste money.

In article ,
"Nonny" wrote:

FWIW, my neighbor asked me and another neighbor to hang her new
LCD TV set, using an arm bracket. Without going into detail, we
needed (4) 1/4" X 6" lags to get the job done really solid. I
sized the pilot hole myself, using the MK22 eyeball device in my
head, and by the way, the hole was drilled with a 5" long bit.

2 of the blasted things torqued off, meaning that we had to adjust
the height of the bracket to remount it. They are a POS and it'll
be a cold day in Hades before I use anything like that in a
project.

Let's see, you used a 5" long drill for a 6" long bolt. (How much of the
drill was in the chuck, BTW?) And I don't see any mention of a larger
counterbore for the unthreaded portion. But I'm sure you saved face with
the neighbor by blaming the hardware.

The Lowes ones are grade 5, the HD ones are grade 2. After
all this long thread, I know you'll make the right choice.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
news
"basilisk" wrote in message

I have an immediate need for 5 beryllium copper, 1" x 16"
allen head capscrews, 8tpi, with left hand,
double lead buttress threads, polished to a surface finish
of
50nm and having a total indicated runout of .0002" and
some plastic wing nuts for same.


They are 79¢ at Home Depot, but I think the Lowes 35 mile up
the road has
them for only 77¢ so take the trip to find out for sure
before you buy and
waste money.

"basilisk" wrote in
:


"jaymelone" wrote in message
roups.com...
jaymelone had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...-4-Lag-Screw-4
12326-.htm
:
Guys, just like you wouldn't buy a water heater from Home Depot, I
wouldn't recommend their hardware, either. The quality is
sub-standard and pricing is through the roof.

I'm opening a site online where you'll be able to find any fastener
in any material for any job. We'll also have some pretty cool
features to help you plan your projects and buy the right stuff, and
the right amount, too! We'll even help you contractors out there
engage with and grow your customer base. We have a lot in the works.

I have an immediate need for 5 beryllium copper, 1" x 16"
allen head capscrews, 8tpi, with left hand,
double lead buttress threads, polished to a surface finish of
50nm and having a total indicated runout of .0002" and
some plastic wing nuts for same.

basilisk




You ain't gonna believe this but Harbor Freight has just such a thing.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2l9o3dh.jpg

In rec.woodworking Jon Danniken wrote:
snip

Try Ace Hardware. Much higher quality, and often cheaper.

-- Andy Barss

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Barss" wrote in message
...
In rec.woodworking Jon Danniken wrote:
snip

Try Ace Hardware. Much higher quality, and often cheaper.

-- Andy Barss

Ace has consistently had the highest prices for any item you can mention,
unless it's on the clearance rack, and then, it's just under what the
other stores sell it for every day. Surely you jest.

Those Ace Hardware stores are independently owned and operated. The prices,
selection and service varies widely from location to location.

I have two close to me. The one that has been there forever has an
extensive selection of fasteners, cheaper than big box stores and much
better quality. The one that opened recently has less selection, surly help
and more expensive prices.

Guess which one I go to.

A case in point. I needed some deck screws recently to do a fence repair.
The BORG only had the deck screws in those expensive little boxes. And they
did not have the sizes I needed either. And they were quite expensive as
well. I went to the Ace Hardware, got three different sizes of deck screws
from the bulk bins and paid for a pound of fasteners.

And their deck screws are tough little *******s too. I have used them for
several repairs. I probably saved at least $20 over Home Depot prices on
this job alone. And as been pointed out elsewhere recently, there is no
telling what kind of quality you get when paying the big bucks at the BORG.

"Andrew Barss" wrote in message
...
In rec.woodworking Jon Danniken wrote:
snip

Try Ace Hardware. Much higher quality, and often cheaper.

-- Andy Barss

Ace has consistently had the highest prices for any item you can mention,
unless it's on the clearance rack, and then, it's just under what the other
stores sell it for every day. Surely you jest.

Steve

In rec.woodworking Steve B wrote:

: "Andrew Barss" wrote in message
: ...
: In rec.woodworking Jon Danniken wrote:
: snip
:
: Try Ace Hardware. Much higher quality, and often cheaper.
:
: -- Andy Barss

: Ace has consistently had the highest prices for any item you can mention,
: unless it's on the clearance rack, and then, it's just under what the other
: stores sell it for every day. Surely you jest.

They're independently owned and managed, and may be different where you
are. Here (Southern AZ), I have one a couple miles away which has a
pretty deep stock of decent hardware (grade 5 included), along with a
billion things you'd never find at HD or Lowe's (cotter pins, motor shaft
keys, brushes for electric motors,...). if I need something really
obscure, there's one about 6 miles away which is enormous, and
has pretty much anything I've ever needed that isn't made of a strange
metal.

Both have nice, quite knowledgable staff.

And the prices are, for all the items I have compared anyway, cheaper than
HD for better stuff. No kidding.

-- Andy Barss

Andrew Barss wrote:

In rec.woodworking Steve B wrote:

: "Andrew Barss" wrote in message
: ...
: In rec.woodworking Jon Danniken wrote:
: snip
:
: Try Ace Hardware. Much higher quality, and often cheaper.
:
: -- Andy Barss

: Ace has consistently had the highest prices for any item you can
: mention, unless it's on the clearance rack, and then, it's just under
: what the other
: stores sell it for every day. Surely you jest.

They're independently owned and managed, and may be different where you
are. Here (Southern AZ), I have one a couple miles away which has a
pretty deep stock of decent hardware (grade 5 included), along with a
billion things you'd never find at HD or Lowe's (cotter pins, motor shaft
keys, brushes for electric motors,...). if I need something really
obscure, there's one about 6 miles away which is enormous, and
has pretty much anything I've ever needed that isn't made of a strange
metal.

Is that the one on Grant Road?

Where is the other one? There's one up here off Cortaro Road, but it is
one of the newer, more "boutique" types, not a lot of obscure stuff.



--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

I miss the TIN Barn that moved out.
It had a fantastic nut and bolt selection. a set of trays
that was 5' x 80'. You want what? - down there after stainless and before xxxx.

Martin

Lee Michaels wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message
...
"Andrew Barss" wrote in message
...
In rec.woodworking Jon Danniken wrote:
snip

Try Ace Hardware. Much higher quality, and often cheaper.

-- Andy Barss
Ace has consistently had the highest prices for any item you can mention,
unless it's on the clearance rack, and then, it's just under what the
other stores sell it for every day. Surely you jest.

Those Ace Hardware stores are independently owned and operated. The prices,
selection and service varies widely from location to location.

I have two close to me. The one that has been there forever has an
extensive selection of fasteners, cheaper than big box stores and much
better quality. The one that opened recently has less selection, surly help
and more expensive prices.

Guess which one I go to.

A case in point. I needed some deck screws recently to do a fence repair.
The BORG only had the deck screws in those expensive little boxes. And they
did not have the sizes I needed either. And they were quite expensive as
well. I went to the Ace Hardware, got three different sizes of deck screws
from the bulk bins and paid for a pound of fasteners.

And their deck screws are tough little *******s too. I have used them for
several repairs. I probably saved at least $20 over Home Depot prices on
this job alone. And as been pointed out elsewhere recently, there is no
telling what kind of quality you get when paying the big bucks at the BORG.

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:21:45 -0800, Jon Danniken wrote:
I tightened up a 1/4" lag screw that I bought from Home Depot earlier this
evening. It was screwed into 1.5" fir after pre-drilling with a 1/8" pilot
hole.

After it bottomed out, I turned it just a little bit more, holding a 3/8"
ratchet handle close to the shaft, not out on the handle. I wasn't giving
it much torque, just making sure that it was secure, when it turned to
butter.

1/4"? What's that for, a doll house?