I tightened up a 1/4" lag screw that I bought from Home Depot earlier this
evening. It was screwed into 1.5" fir after pre-drilling with a 1/8" pilot
hole.

After it bottomed out, I turned it just a little bit more, holding a 3/8"
ratchet handle close to the shaft, not out on the handle. I wasn't giving
it much torque, just making sure that it was secure, when it turned to
butter.

It was less torque tha I have used in the past to tighten drywall screws.

Here is the result:

http://i45.tinypic.com/35i981s.jpg

On the plus side, it was really easy to drill a little hole in the piece
that is still left in the wood (the hole is for the EZ out).

I'm actually glad that this came apart on me; at least I know to get some
halfway decent ones now before something failed with more catastrophic
results.

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Jon

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Jon

Even better, don't buy fasteners at Home Depot. If you want quality, go to
an industrial supply house or order from McFeelys.com

Ed Pawlowski wrote:


"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Jon

Even better, don't buy fasteners at Home Depot. If you want quality, go
to an industrial supply house or order from McFeelys.com
I called McFeelys and all Fasteners they sell are made in CHINA
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

On Dec 16, 1:21*am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
I tightened up a 1/4" lag screw that I bought from Home Depot earlier this
evening. *It was screwed into 1.5" fir after pre-drilling with a 1/8" pilot
hole.

After it bottomed out, I turned it just a little bit more, holding a 3/8"
ratchet handle close to the shaft, not out on the handle. *I wasn't giving
it much torque, just making sure that it was secure, when it turned to
butter.

It was less torque tha I have used in the past to tighten drywall screws.

Here is the result:

http://i45.tinypic.com/35i981s.jpg

On the plus side, it was really easy to drill a little hole in the piece
that is still left in the wood (the hole is for the EZ out).

I'm actually glad that this came apart on me; at least I know to get some
halfway decent ones now before something failed with more catastrophic
results.

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Jon

I'm pretty sure that all of the standard fasteners at HD are made of
quite soft metal. I have run into the same problem using lag screws
on deck framing. If they get a little warm from friction, the heads
twist right off. HD have some hardened bolts, but they are as
expensive as if you had bought them at Fastenal. I agree that HD is
not the place to buy fasteners - aside from the fact that HD charges
quite a lot for their fasteners.

Andrew wrote:
On Dec 16, 1:21 am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
I tightened up a 1/4" lag screw that I bought from Home Depot earlier this
evening. It was screwed into 1.5" fir after pre-drilling with a 1/8" pilot
hole.

After it bottomed out, I turned it just a little bit more, holding a 3/8"
ratchet handle close to the shaft, not out on the handle. I wasn't giving
it much torque, just making sure that it was secure, when it turned to
butter.

It was less torque tha I have used in the past to tighten drywall screws.

Here is the result:

http://i45.tinypic.com/35i981s.jpg

On the plus side, it was really easy to drill a little hole in the piece
that is still left in the wood (the hole is for the EZ out).

I'm actually glad that this came apart on me; at least I know to get some
halfway decent ones now before something failed with more catastrophic
results.

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Jon

I'm pretty sure that all of the standard fasteners at HD are made of
quite soft metal. I have run into the same problem using lag screws
on deck framing. If they get a little warm from friction, the heads
twist right off. HD have some hardened bolts, but they are as
expensive as if you had bought them at Fastenal. I agree that HD is
not the place to buy fasteners - aside from the fact that HD charges
quite a lot for their fasteners.

And their "bin" machine screws are Grade 2 not Grade 5... who uses
Grade 2 for anything?


nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

In article ,
Nate Nagel wrote:

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

And their "bin" machine screws are Grade 2 not Grade 5... who uses
Grade 2 for anything?

Quite obviously, HD customers that don't know better. wry grin

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 03:41:39 -0800, Andrew wrote:
I'm pretty sure that all of the standard fasteners at HD are made of
quite soft metal. I have run into the same problem using lag screws
on deck framing. If they get a little warm from friction, the heads
twist right off.

I've found it's worth checking them rather than blindly picking them up -
I've seen screws from different places that are listed as the same thing,
but sometimes they have narrower shafts and are prone to shearing.
Thankfully my local farm supply place seems to be consistently good...

In article ,
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

I tightened up a 1/4" lag screw that I bought from Home Depot earlier this
evening. It was screwed into 1.5" fir after pre-drilling with a 1/8" pilot
hole.

After it bottomed out, I turned it just a little bit more, holding a 3/8"
ratchet handle close to the shaft, not out on the handle. I wasn't giving
it much torque, just making sure that it was secure, when it turned to
butter.

It was less torque tha I have used in the past to tighten drywall screws.

Here is the result:

http://i45.tinypic.com/35i981s.jpg

On the plus side, it was really easy to drill a little hole in the piece
that is still left in the wood (the hole is for the EZ out).

I'm actually glad that this came apart on me; at least I know to get some
halfway decent ones now before something failed with more catastrophic
results.

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Jon

Hardware comes in grades. Next time get grade 5 or better. But a 1/8"
pilot is too small for a 1/4" screw. The pilot should be the diameter of
the shank. Hold the screw and the drill up to the light together, with
the drill in front of the screw. Only the threads of the screw should be
unobscured by the drill.

On Dec 16, 9:23*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*"Jon Danniken" wrote:





I tightened up a 1/4" lag screw that I bought from Home Depot earlier this
evening. *It was screwed into 1.5" fir after pre-drilling with a 1/8" pilot
hole.

After it bottomed out, I turned it just a little bit more, holding a 3/8"
ratchet handle close to the shaft, not out on the handle. *I wasn't giving
it much torque, just making sure that it was secure, when it turned to
butter.

It was less torque tha I have used in the past to tighten drywall screws.

Here is the result:

http://i45.tinypic.com/35i981s.jpg

On the plus side, it was really easy to drill a little hole in the piece
that is still left in the wood (the hole is for the EZ out).

I'm actually glad that this came apart on me; at least I know to get some
halfway decent ones now before something failed with more catastrophic
results.

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Jon

Hardware comes in grades. Next time get grade 5 or better. But a 1/8"
pilot is too small for a 1/4" screw. The pilot should be the diameter of
the shank. Hold the screw and the drill up to the light together, with
the drill in front of the screw. Only the threads of the screw should be
unobscured by the drill.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

BTW: Using a drill gauge for sizing!
We use a card with various holes in it, originally designed we think
for sizing knitting needles?
But the holes are marked in metric on one side and on the other in
64ths, 32nds etc.
Very useful.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

I tightened up a 1/4" lag screw that I bought from Home Depot earlier
this
evening. It was screwed into 1.5" fir after pre-drilling with a 1/8"
pilot
hole.

After it bottomed out, I turned it just a little bit more, holding a 3/8"
ratchet handle close to the shaft, not out on the handle. I wasn't
giving
it much torque, just making sure that it was secure, when it turned to
butter.

It was less torque tha I have used in the past to tighten drywall screws.

Here is the result:

http://i45.tinypic.com/35i981s.jpg

On the plus side, it was really easy to drill a little hole in the piece
that is still left in the wood (the hole is for the EZ out).

I'm actually glad that this came apart on me; at least I know to get some
halfway decent ones now before something failed with more catastrophic
results.

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Jon

Hardware comes in grades. Next time get grade 5 or better. But a 1/8"
pilot is too small for a 1/4" screw. The pilot should be the diameter of
the shank.

And what diameter would that be, since lags are tapered? And if there were
such a diameter, you would mean "root diameter" or minor diameter -- right?

But that's ok.... I'm sure the concept of conventional vs climb cutting is
going to take another few weeks to properly gel in your brain -- all this
other stuff will come in due time. Heh, mebbe you can study with yer buddee
RicodJour.

Hold the screw and the drill up to the light together, with
the drill in front of the screw. Only the threads of the screw should be
unobscured by the drill.

Altho ahm no 'spert on wood, I doubt that the pilot hole should be exactly a
root diameter (if there were one) for wood. After all, yer not tapping the
wood like metal.
Mebbe there is a woodworker's equiv to Machinery's Handbook that has this
spec -- heh, mebbe even Machinery's handbook has it!

I'm sure there has to be some compression of the wood fibre, for adequate
strength, when drilling pilots. 1/8" actually sounds about right.
--
EA

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Snip


And what diameter would that be, since lags are tapered? And if there
were such a diameter, you would mean "root diameter" or minor diameter --
right?


I have never seen a tapered lag screw unless it was "very" short, and the
diameter you are looking for is the "body" diameter as described by
McFeeleys screw sizing chart.


Altho ahm no 'spert on wood, I doubt that the pilot hole should be exactly
a root diameter (if there were one) for wood. After all, yer not tapping
the wood like metal.
Mebbe there is a woodworker's equiv to Machinery's Handbook that has this
spec -- heh, mebbe even Machinery's handbook has it!

Actually you do want the pilot hole the same size as the body diameter.




I'm sure there has to be some compression of the wood fibre, for adequate
strength, when drilling pilots. 1/8" actually sounds about right.

You only want the threads cutting into the wood, 1/8" is too small.

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:03:04 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


Mebbe there is a woodworker's equiv to Machinery's Handbook that has this
spec -- heh, mebbe even Machinery's handbook has it!


The 27th Edition lists the root diameter of a 1/4" lag bolt as .173".

The next natural drill size is .187, or 3/16".



Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:03:04 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


Mebbe there is a woodworker's equiv to Machinery's Handbook that has this
spec -- heh, mebbe even Machinery's handbook has it!


The 27th Edition lists the root diameter of a 1/4" lag bolt as .173".

I measured a 1/4", just one, and its root measured .186-.187 top to bottom.
I don't imagine lags are a precision item, tho.

And one of the links someone posted gives the pilot as 3/16 in softwood,
7/32 in hard!
It also mentioned grease or vegeteable oil as a lube, but cautioned against
soap.

1/4 lags are fragile, tho. I'd use 5/16 on anything semi-substantial.
--
EA


The next natural drill size is .187, or 3/16".



Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

On 12/16/2009 01:13 PM, Tom Watson wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:03:04 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


Mebbe there is a woodworker's equiv to Machinery's Handbook that has this
spec -- heh, mebbe even Machinery's handbook has it!


The 27th Edition lists the root diameter of a 1/4" lag bolt as .173".

The next natural drill size is .187, or 3/16".

For optimum strength in solid wood you actually want to drill the pilot
hole smaller than the root diameter. Specifically between 0.7 and 0.9
times the root diameter, depending on the density of the wood in
question--softwood gets a smaller hole.

Chris

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:25:08 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

On 12/16/2009 01:13 PM, Tom Watson wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:03:04 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


Mebbe there is a woodworker's equiv to Machinery's Handbook that has this
spec -- heh, mebbe even Machinery's handbook has it!


The 27th Edition lists the root diameter of a 1/4" lag bolt as .173".

The next natural drill size is .187, or 3/16".

For optimum strength in solid wood you actually want to drill the pilot
hole smaller than the root diameter. Specifically between 0.7 and 0.9
times the root diameter, depending on the density of the wood in
question--softwood gets a smaller hole.

Chris


Where does that come from?


Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"Tom Watson" wrote:

The 27th Edition lists the root diameter of a 1/4" lag bolt as
.173".

The next natural drill size is .187, or 3/16".

SFWIW, I use 75% of fastener size for the pilot hole size rounded to
nearest standard size drill which can be either fractional, letter, or
number size.

YMMV

Lew

Smitty Two wrote:
But a 1/8"
pilot is too small for a 1/4" screw. The pilot should be the diameter
of the shank. Hold the screw and the drill up to the light together,
with the drill in front of the screw. Only the threads of the screw
should be unobscured by the drill.

No, an 1/8" is actually too small for a 1/4" (size 14) screw:

http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tab...pilotholes.htm

Jon

In article ,
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
But a 1/8"
pilot is too small for a 1/4" screw. The pilot should be the diameter
of the shank. Hold the screw and the drill up to the light together,
with the drill in front of the screw. Only the threads of the screw
should be unobscured by the drill.

No, an 1/8" is actually too small for a 1/4" (size 14) screw:

http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tab...pilotholes.htm

Jon

I thought I said that. I guess I haven't had enough coffee yet. BTW,
that table is for tapered wood screws. I didn't think lag screws were
tapered.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
But a 1/8"
pilot is too small for a 1/4" screw. The pilot should be the diameter
of the shank. Hold the screw and the drill up to the light together,
with the drill in front of the screw. Only the threads of the screw
should be unobscured by the drill.

No, an 1/8" is actually too small for a 1/4" (size 14) screw:

http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tab...pilotholes.htm

Jon

I thought I said that. I guess I haven't had enough coffee yet. BTW,
that table is for tapered wood screws. I didn't think lag screws were
tapered.

You are right -- they are not tapered. Heh, you just may grasp climb
cutting sooner than I predicted!

The root diameter on a 1/4" lag is almost exactly 3/16.
A 1/8" pilot would cause about 1/32" (.032) compression, "on the radius" --
which, if too much, is a whole lot better than *no pilot*, which is what
proly 95% of people do.

Proly the pilot size would depend on the wood and on the grain orientation,
as well.
But as I think about it, and look at a lag bolt, mebbe a pilot closer to
3/16 than 1/8 IS appropriate, esp. for long lag bolts. Mebbe 11/64.
--
EA

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
But a 1/8"
pilot is too small for a 1/4" screw. The pilot should be the
diameter of the shank. Hold the screw and the drill up to the light
together, with the drill in front of the screw. Only the threads of
the screw should be unobscured by the drill.

No, an 1/8" is actually too small for a 1/4" (size 14) screw:

http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tab...pilotholes.htm

Jon

I thought I said that. I guess I haven't had enough coffee yet. BTW,
that table is for tapered wood screws. I didn't think lag screws were
tapered.

Bah, it was I who needed more coffee. What I meant to say was that 1/8" is
actually too *large* for a 1/4" (size 14) screw.

Of course, that is for a wood screw, which I do realize now uses a slightly
smaller hole than does a lag screw.

Jon

On 12/16/2009 4:23 AM Smitty Two spake thus:

In article ,
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

I tightened up a 1/4" lag screw that I bought from Home Depot
earlier this evening. It was screwed into 1.5" fir after
pre-drilling with a 1/8" pilot hole.

After it bottomed out, I turned it just a little bit more, holding
a 3/8" ratchet handle close to the shaft, not out on the handle. I
wasn't giving it much torque, just making sure that it was secure,
when it turned to butter.

It was less torque tha I have used in the past to tighten drywall
screws.

Hardware comes in grades. Next time get grade 5 or better. But a 1/8"
pilot is too small for a 1/4" screw. The pilot should be the diameter of
the shank.

Yes, I was going to say that the OP drilled far too small a pilot hole,
then blamed the breakage on them goldurn cheap Chinese lag bolts.

"They" recommend a 3/16" pilot hole in softwood, and 7/32" in hardwood
(and fir is pretty hard wood for softwood).

See: http://www.renovation-headquarters.c...pilot-hole.htm


--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.

- harvested from Usenet

Yes, I was going to say that the OP drilled far too small a pilot hole,
then blamed the breakage on them goldurn cheap Chinese lag bolts.

A quality lag bolt would have split the wood.

On 2009-12-17, Steve B wrote:


Yes, I was going to say that the OP drilled far too small a pilot hole,
then blamed the breakage on them goldurn cheap Chinese lag bolts.

A quality lag bolt would have split the wood.

Heh....

Now that's a great debate. Wood vs metal. On its surface it seems
simple, but....

Gentlemen, take your mark!

nb

Steve B wrote:
Yes, I was going to say that the OP drilled far too small a pilot
hole, then blamed the breakage on them goldurn cheap Chinese lag
bolts.

A quality lag bolt would have split the wood.

A quality lag bolt was purchased (stainless steel, US made) from a fastener
store. The lag bolt was tightened up securely, but the wood is not split

Got any other "theories" Steve?

Jon

"Jon Danniken" wrote:

A quality lag bolt was purchased (stainless steel, US made) from a
fastener store.

The US has been out of the general fastener business for decades.

Had a couple of customers who were fastener manufacturers go belly up
while I was still back in Cleveland, a town that was, at one time, a
major fastener manufacturing center.

Most of the S/S comes in from India these days.

Lew

Jon Danniken wrote:
I tightened up a 1/4" lag screw that I bought from Home Depot earlier this
evening. It was screwed into 1.5" fir after pre-drilling with a 1/8" pilot
hole.

After it bottomed out, I turned it just a little bit more, holding a 3/8"
ratchet handle close to the shaft, not out on the handle. I wasn't giving
it much torque, just making sure that it was secure, when it turned to
butter.

It was less torque tha I have used in the past to tighten drywall screws.

Here is the result:

http://i45.tinypic.com/35i981s.jpg

On the plus side, it was really easy to drill a little hole in the piece
that is still left in the wood (the hole is for the EZ out).

I'm actually glad that this came apart on me; at least I know to get some
halfway decent ones now before something failed with more catastrophic
results.

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Jon



Around here, Tractor Supply has pretty good fasteners, including grade 8
if your function calls for that. Farmers don't like to do the same
repair job twice, I guess.
--
aem sends...

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

Around here, Tractor Supply has pretty good fasteners, including grade 8
if your function calls for that. Farmers don't like to do the same repair
job twice, I guess.
--
aem sends...

Yeah, grade 8 in a lag screw is probabably not going to exist. You will not
see a farmer using a lag screw to repair a tractor, I hope. LOL

In article , aemeijers wrote:

Around here, Tractor Supply has pretty good fasteners, including grade 8
if your function calls for that. Farmers don't like to do the same
repair job twice, I guess.

Of course not. It's like any other business: having machinery down costs
money. At harvest time, a down machine can cost _a lot_ of money.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , aemeijers
wrote:

Around here, Tractor Supply has pretty good fasteners, including grade 8
if your function calls for that. Farmers don't like to do the same
repair job twice, I guess.

Of course not. It's like any other business: having machinery down costs
money. At harvest time, a down machine can cost _a lot_ of money.

And there are liability issue concernes. A good mechanic will use grade 8
or better so that when he is preplacing a bolt it is at least as strong as
the original. I was stocking grade 8, 30 years ago for automotive repairs
at an Olds dealership.

Leon wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , aemeijers
wrote:

Around here, Tractor Supply has pretty good fasteners, including
grade 8 if your function calls for that. Farmers don't like to do
the same repair job twice, I guess.

Of course not. It's like any other business: having machinery down
costs money. At harvest time, a down machine can cost _a lot_ of
money.

And there are liability issue concernes. A good mechanic will use
grade 8 or better so that when he is preplacing a bolt it is at least
as strong as the original. I was stocking grade 8, 30 years ago for
automotive repairs at an Olds dealership.

Be careful using Grade 8. They're strong but they're also brittle. Don't
use them for applications where there are likely to be shock loads.

J. Clarke wrote:

Leon wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , aemeijers
wrote:

Around here, Tractor Supply has pretty good fasteners, including
grade 8 if your function calls for that. Farmers don't like to do
the same repair job twice, I guess.

Of course not. It's like any other business: having machinery down
costs money. At harvest time, a down machine can cost _a lot_ of
money.

And there are liability issue concernes. A good mechanic will use
grade 8 or better so that when he is preplacing a bolt it is at least
as strong as the original. I was stocking grade 8, 30 years ago for
automotive repairs at an Olds dealership.

Be careful using Grade 8. They're strong but they're also brittle. Don't
use them for applications where there are likely to be shock loads.
You mean like Cylinder Heads?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:40:24 -0500, aemeijers
wrote:

Around here, Tractor Supply has pretty good fasteners, including grade 8
if your function calls for that. Farmers don't like to do the same
repair job twice, I guess.
--

Same here, and TS sells their hardware by the pound. It's always
where I go first. I just bought a boatload of grade 2 & 5 carriage
bolts, nuts, washers, etc. for around $8 ($1.99/lb). The grade 8
are a little more expensive if you need them, but not unreasonable.

I was at Lowes later for something else, so just did a quick double
check to see how far off they were. Grade 1 bolts alone were nearly
$15.

8 (1/2 x4) = $8.80 ($1.10 each).
4 (1/2 x6) = $6.00 ($1.50 each).

The irony is that I'm using a plan I found at Lowes.

"JustTom" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:40:24 -0500, aemeijers
wrote:

Around here, Tractor Supply has pretty good fasteners, including grade 8
if your function calls for that. Farmers don't like to do the same
repair job twice, I guess.
--

Same here, and TS sells their hardware by the pound. It's always
where I go first. I just bought a boatload of grade 2 & 5 carriage
bolts, nuts, washers, etc. for around $8 ($1.99/lb). The grade 8
are a little more expensive if you need them, but not unreasonable.

I was at Lowes later for something else, so just did a quick double
check to see how far off they were. Grade 1 bolts alone were nearly
$15.

8 (1/2 x4) = $8.80 ($1.10 each).
4 (1/2 x6) = $6.00 ($1.50 each).

The irony is that I'm using a plan I found at Lowes.

Indeed, the mark of a good hardware store is where you CAN by stuff by the
pound.
--
EA

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
I tightened up a 1/4" lag screw that I bought from Home Depot earlier this
evening. It was screwed into 1.5" fir after pre-drilling with a 1/8" pilot
hole.

After it bottomed out, I turned it just a little bit more, holding a 3/8"
ratchet handle close to the shaft, not out on the handle. I wasn't giving
it much torque, just making sure that it was secure, when it turned to
butter.

It was less torque tha I have used in the past to tighten drywall screws.

Here is the result:

http://i45.tinypic.com/35i981s.jpg

On the plus side, it was really easy to drill a little hole in the piece
that is still left in the wood (the hole is for the EZ out).

I'm actually glad that this came apart on me; at least I know to get some
halfway decent ones now before something failed with more catastrophic
results.

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

I've had the very same thing happen to me in non-HD hardware, about 20 years
ago, using a ratchet, with an anchor in masonry, with a bit more torque than
for drywall, but still surprising. Could have been a crappy quality as
well, but it sure spooked me on lag bolts.

Stainless is an option, as well.

As others have commented, HD is no bargain, and stuff that appears like a
bargain is usually so low in quality as to be near useless, like their
low-priced ply, etc.
Others have mentioned that reputable companies sposedly have "HD versions",
like Bosch, etc. No doubt true for bulk items.

HD, Staples, and all rest are boils on the asses of their respective areas,
rotting our social fabric, and grinning examples of anti-trust-type
violations.

Heh, yet I go to HD at least 1x/month.... well, cuz their Hitler-esque plan
worked!
Wait 'til they start closing their stores, so's you gotta travel 50 miles,
on top of it all.
--
EA





Jon

On 12/16/2009 03:21, Jon Danniken wrote:


Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Jon


Without having them tested how would you know? You are pretty much
guaranteed that the fasteners you can buy there are the lowest quality
they you can possibly buy.

You can get much better quality (and actually pay less) at industrial
supply houses.

"George" wrote in message
...
On 12/16/2009 03:21, Jon Danniken wrote:


Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Jon


Without having them tested how would you know? You are pretty much
guaranteed that the fasteners you can buy there are the lowest quality
they you can possibly buy.

Which is the mantra of all predatory organizations.
Even the parking at HD is ill-thought out.
--
EA



You can get much better quality (and actually pay less) at industrial
supply houses.

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
..
Even the parking at HD is ill-thought out.
--
That varies from store to store. The one closest to me is quite good as for
layout. What is a PIA is that parking spaces have been getting smaller and
smaller.When you pull in to a parking spot, in a Subaru Impreza, and have to
be careful not to hit the car next to you with your door as you get out,
it's getting a bit tight. The spacing between rows is getting smaller too.
In my F250, I have to park out in "no mans land". I can see the day when it
will be impractical to park anything larger than a motorized skateboard.

On Dec 16, 10:54*am, "CW" wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message

...
. Even the parking at HD is ill-thought out.
--

That varies from store to store. The one closest to me is quite good as for
layout. What is a PIA is that parking spaces have been getting smaller and
smaller.When you pull in to a parking spot, in a Subaru Impreza, and have to
be careful not to hit the car next to you with your door as you get out,
it's getting a bit tight. The spacing between rows is getting smaller too..
In my F250, I have to park out in "no mans land". I can see the day when it
will be impractical to park anything larger than a motorized skateboard.

That also varies from store to store (they don't always own the
buildings or the land). When I lived in VT I rarely went into the
WallyWorld because the lot was crazy. HD shared the same lot but that
end wasn't as busy so was less of a human obstacle course. Stores in
NE OH had no such problems, nor do the ones here in AL.

" wrote in
:

On Dec 16, 10:54*am, "CW" wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message

...
. Even the parking at HD is ill-thought out.
--

That varies from store to store. The one closest to me is quite good
as f
or
layout. What is a PIA is that parking spaces have been getting
smaller an
d
smaller.When you pull in to a parking spot, in a Subaru Impreza, and
have
to
be careful not to hit the car next to you with your door as you get
out, it's getting a bit tight. The spacing between rows is getting
smaller too
.
In my F250, I have to park out in "no mans land". I can see the day
when
it
will be impractical to park anything larger than a motorized
skateboard.

That also varies from store to store (they don't always own the
buildings or the land). When I lived in VT I rarely went into the
WallyWorld because the lot was crazy. HD shared the same lot but that
end wasn't as busy so was less of a human obstacle course. Stores in
NE OH had no such problems, nor do the ones here in AL.



HD shared the same lot

Sounds like Williston VT.

"CW" wrote in message
m...

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
.
Even the parking at HD is ill-thought out.
--
That varies from store to store. The one closest to me is quite good as
for layout. What is a PIA is that parking spaces have been getting smaller
and smaller.When you pull in to a parking spot, in a Subaru Impreza, and
have to be careful not to hit the car next to you with your door as you
get out, it's getting a bit tight. The spacing between rows is getting
smaller too. In my F250, I have to park out in "no mans land". I can see
the day when it will be impractical to park anything larger than a
motorized skateboard.

And why not angle parking, straight in parking does not save any more space
as you need wider lanes.