A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

On Jul 23, 9:13*pm, krw wrote:
A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. *I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. *I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. *Is this normal? *I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. *I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. *My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. *It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? *I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. *I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

yes this is normal...and yes the machine makes a weird noisei

On Jul 23, 9:13*pm, krw wrote:
A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. *I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. *I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. *Is this normal?

Yes. I have a can of biscuits that is several months old. Some if the
biscuits will be tight and some loose. There will some variability in
moisture content from biscuit to biscuit. (this is what I have found).

After you add glue they will swell significantly.

*I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. *I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. *My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. *It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

YES! Use wax paper so the cauls don't stick.


2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? *

Don't know this one, I own a DeWalt.


I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. *I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:23:14 -0700 (PDT), mike from American Sycamore
wrote:

On Jul 23, 9:13*pm, krw wrote:
A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. *I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. *I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. *Is this normal? *I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. *I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. *My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. *It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? *I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. *I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

yes this is normal...and yes the machine makes a weird noisei

Thanks again. I guess my expectations were a bit high. Oh, well,
it's certainly an easy tool to use, if not precisely what I expected.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:13:22 -0500, krw wrote:


A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

The biscuits move pretty freely along their length. Across their
width, they're usually snug but not tight -- they slip in and out of
the slot easily and yeah, they might rattle around by a 64th, I guess.
But that all changes once you apply the glue. They swell up and after
a few seconds you'd have a hard time pulling them out if you wanted
to. (Experiment on a piece of scrap wood -- you'll see what I mean.)

Yeah, the PC is noisy and a bit rough sounding and now that you
mention it, a lot like my coffee grinder. Not to worry.

(And if you want a really interesting sound, remove the
dust-collection canister and hook up a shop vac hose to catch the
chips. It sounds like a fire siren!)


Reply-to address is real
John

In article , krw wrote:

A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Perfectly normal on both counts. The biscuits will be plenty tight once you
put a little glue on them -- as long as it's water-based glue. Using a
urethane glue (e.g. Gorilla Glue) kind of defeats the purpose... the biscuits
are compressed at the factory, and designed to swell when they get wet.

Warning: wait *at least* overnight before sanding, planing, or scraping any
boards that were biscuit-joined. The biscuits swell, the wood above them
swells, and if you sand/plane/scrape too soon, when the wood dries, you'll
have biscuit-shaped depressions in the surface.

In article ,
zzzzzzzzz says...

A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.


I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period. It requires firm
pressure to insert 95% of the bisquits into the slot (I get the odd one
that slides in easily) and I sometimes have to use pliers to remove them
after a trial fit-up. Once coated with pva, I have to use a very small
wooden mallet to centre bisquits if I haven't gotten them into the right
place with my thumb, they're that tight.

Hard to say if your bisquits are crap, or if the PC is sloppy/wobbly or
if the blade is no good. My jointer sounds like a router, not like a
coffee grinder ...

Just for reference: I keep the lamello bisquits in a plastic bucket with
the lid merely laid snugly on top, rather than pressed down (it's so
tight, it's a pain to try and open if I seal it) and in my extremely
humid climate I haven't had noticable problems with the bisquits
swelling through sucking moisture from the air. The box-full of bisquits
I am still using a.t.m. is about 5 years old.

-P.

I have a biscuit joiner that gets used maybe once a year. It's good for
alignment if +- 1/64 is close enough. For edging, such as you are doing, I
wouldn't use it. There are more accurate ways. I really don't find the
biscuit joiner to be much use.

"krw" wrote in message
...

A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

"krw" wrote in message
...

A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal?

Yes

I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight.

Absolutely not.



I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally.

Correct

It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.




2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder?

Probably not but they do.



I would have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like
the
PC.

These days PC is middle of the road. I have 2 PC plate joiners. If you
want "high end" look at Lamello. Lamello is about the only "high end" plate
joiner.

http://www.lamello.com/en/products/w...ng-system.html


I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Biscuits tend to be extremely inconsistent in thickness.

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:17:27 +1200, Peter Huebner
wrote:

In article ,
says...

A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.


I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period. It requires firm
pressure to insert 95% of the bisquits into the slot (I get the odd one
that slides in easily) and I sometimes have to use pliers to remove them
after a trial fit-up. Once coated with pva, I have to use a very small
wooden mallet to centre bisquits if I haven't gotten them into the right
place with my thumb, they're that tight.

Haven't tried the glue yet. It was apparent I was going to need to do
more alignment, so stopped.

Hard to say if your bisquits are crap, or if the PC is sloppy/wobbly or
if the blade is no good. My jointer sounds like a router, not like a
coffee grinder ...

Just for reference: I keep the lamello bisquits in a plastic bucket with
the lid merely laid snugly on top, rather than pressed down (it's so
tight, it's a pain to try and open if I seal it) and in my extremely
humid climate I haven't had noticable problems with the bisquits
swelling through sucking moisture from the air. The box-full of bisquits
I am still using a.t.m. is about 5 years old.

I just recently bought both PC (#10) and Bosch (#20) biscuits. All
are sloppy in the slots (I just cut for #20, but it's the same blade).
I'm sorta limited in what I can buy around here so I'll try some
Lamello next time I order toys.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:28:52 -0700, "CW"
wrote:

I have a biscuit joiner that gets used maybe once a year. It's good for
alignment if +- 1/64 is close enough. For edging, such as you are doing, I
wouldn't use it. There are more accurate ways. I really don't find the
biscuit joiner to be much use.

Seems to be two schools of thought; love 'em or hate 'em. Thought I'd
see which side I came down on. What type of joint would you use for
edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little less
after I rip everything down to final size.

snip

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:34:46 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

snip

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder?

Probably not but they do.



I would have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like
the
PC.

These days PC is middle of the road. I have 2 PC plate joiners. If you
want "high end" look at Lamello. Lamello is about the only "high end" plate
joiner.

http://www.lamello.com/en/products/w...ng-system.html


I'm a little familiar with it. The PC wasn't cheap (over $200) and I
am a disappointed in its operation. It really does sound like it has
bad bearings. My guess is it's a cheap worm gear in the right angle
drive.

I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Biscuits tend to be extremely inconsistent in thickness.

They all seem sloppy.

"krw" wrote:

What type of joint would you use for
edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little
less
after I rip everything down to final size.


Given a choice, I'd use tongue and groove.

Tongue in the wood, groove in the plywood, forget the biscuits except
at the corner miters in the wood.

YMMV

Lew

Peter Huebner wrote:
In article ,
zzzzzzzzz says...
A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.


I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period.

I have a PC with some slop in the biscuits. No play in the bearings,
sounds like an angle grinder (which is basically what it is).

I'm tempted to take the blades down to my sharpening guy and get them to
take a few thou off the sides.

Chris

"krw" wrote

I'm a little familiar with it. The PC wasn't cheap (over $200) and I
am a disappointed in its operation. It really does sound like it has
bad bearings. My guess is it's a cheap worm gear in the right angle
drive.

I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Biscuits tend to be extremely inconsistent in thickness.

They all seem sloppy.

I have a PC 557 type 2 I bought a few years ago It had an alignment
issue with the fence but I added Owen Lowe's shim and cured that
problem. The newer type 3's don't have the problem. Mine sounds
like my angle grinder and I assume it is due to the same square cut bevel
gears. Hypoid cut gears would be much quieter but cost much more.

Initially my slots were too wide and it was due to poor technique. A bit of
practice fixed that. I have found that the PC biscuits are quite consistent
in thickness. The ones at the Despot were pure crap ( I forgot the brand).
Rockler's are ok with just an occasional fat one. I haven't tried any others.
I store mine in some old Tupperware and haven't had a problem with them
swelling here in Oregon.
Art

On Jul 23, 11:18*pm, "Artemus" wrote:
"krw" *wrote



I'm a little familiar with it. *The PC wasn't cheap (over $200) and I
am a disappointed in its operation. *It really does sound like it has
bad bearings. *My guess is it's a cheap worm gear in the right angle
drive.

I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Biscuits tend to be extremely inconsistent in thickness.

They all seem sloppy.

I have a PC 557 type 2 I bought a few years ago *It had an alignment
issue with the fence but I added Owen Lowe's shim and cured that
problem. *The newer type 3's don't have the problem. *Mine sounds
like my angle grinder and I assume it is due to the same square cut bevel
gears. *Hypoid cut gears would be much quieter but cost much more.

If a $50 drill can use them, I'd think a $200+ slot cutter could. :-
( The only thing I see of value on the PC slot cutter is the fence.
The rest is crap. I suppose the fence is the important part, but...

Initially my slots were too wide and it was due to poor technique. *A bit of
practice fixed that. *I have found that the PC biscuits are quite consistent
in thickness. *The ones at the Despot were pure crap ( I forgot the brand).
Rockler's are ok with just an occasional fat one. *I haven't tried any others.
I store mine in some old Tupperware and haven't had a problem with them
swelling here in Oregon.

Can you elaborate what about your technique caused the slots to be too
wide? I don't see much that would effect the slot width. I'm in
Eastern Alabama so humidity (in the garage) is certainly an issue.
The PC and Bosch biscuits came in a plastic "bottle" with a screw top,
so should be good that way.

Now if you really want to be wowed and have a high end tool that produces
superior results and much much much stronger joints consider,

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/d...em-574258.html

Since purchacing this tool 2 years ago I have not seen either of my PC
joiners.

What they said above regarding biscuit thickness. I even think the
ones in the bottles in my garage expand and contract with seasons and
humidity.

I have a Dewalt and it is a little noisy. Remember that your machine
is a not-so-distant cousin to an angle grinder. It has a gears in the
end that change direction of rotation and speed. A little noisy by
design.

RonB

On Jul 23, 6:13*pm, krw wrote:
A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. *I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

You don't need biscuits for edging. Just glue & clamping with a strip
of masking tape every 3-4 inches has worked really well for me. & it
is more accurate than biscuits.

Don't get me wrong, I love my biscuit joiner for 90 degree joints,
especially in sheet goods.

Luigi

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:17:27 +1200, Peter Huebner
wrote:

In article ,
says...

A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.


I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period. It requires firm
pressure to insert 95% of the bisquits into the slot (I get the odd one
that slides in easily) and I sometimes have to use pliers to remove them
after a trial fit-up. Once coated with pva, I have to use a very small
wooden mallet to centre bisquits if I haven't gotten them into the right
place with my thumb, they're that tight.

Haven't tried the glue yet. It was apparent I was going to need to do
more alignment, so stopped.

Hard to say if your bisquits are crap, or if the PC is sloppy/wobbly or
if the blade is no good. My jointer sounds like a router, not like a
coffee grinder ...

Just for reference: I keep the lamello bisquits in a plastic bucket with
the lid merely laid snugly on top, rather than pressed down (it's so
tight, it's a pain to try and open if I seal it) and in my extremely
humid climate I haven't had noticable problems with the bisquits
swelling through sucking moisture from the air. The box-full of bisquits
I am still using a.t.m. is about 5 years old.

I just recently bought both PC (#10) and Bosch (#20) biscuits. All
are sloppy in the slots (I just cut for #20, but it's the same blade).
I'm sorta limited in what I can buy around here so I'll try some
Lamello next time I order toys.

I have a PC joiner and use (mostly) Bosch biscuits. (because they're the
most available here).
The biscuits fit snug but not so tight that they can't be removed before
gluing.
There is plenty of room for lateral adjustment; I think that was an
intentional design.

Max

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:28:52 -0700, "CW"
wrote:

I have a biscuit joiner that gets used maybe once a year. It's good for
alignment if +- 1/64 is close enough. For edging, such as you are doing, I
wouldn't use it. There are more accurate ways. I really don't find the
biscuit joiner to be much use.

Seems to be two schools of thought; love 'em or hate 'em. Thought I'd
see which side I came down on. What type of joint would you use for
edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little less
after I rip everything down to final size.

snip

I've done quite a bit of edge joining for making table tops, that sort of
thing, and never had a problem with biscuits but I can't recall ever joining
anything less than 3/4" thick. For an edge along side plywood I just glue
the edge in place. No biscuits, no tongue and groove) No problems.

Max

Doug Miller wrote:

Perfectly normal on both counts. The biscuits will be plenty tight once you
put a little glue on them -- as long as it's water-based glue. Using a
urethane glue (e.g. Gorilla Glue) kind of defeats the purpose... the biscuits
are compressed at the factory, and designed to swell when they get wet.

What happens when the water evaporates?

Warning: wait *at least* overnight before sanding, planing, or scraping any
boards that were biscuit-joined. The biscuits swell, the wood above them
swells, and if you sand/plane/scrape too soon, when the wood dries, you'll
have biscuit-shaped depressions in the surface.

I dunno, the more I read about these things, the less I see a use for
them? Someone in this thread said to use cauls, along with the
biscuits? I don't need biscuits if I use cauls, and I don't need them
for strength on long grain joints. Mortise and tenon joints are used on
edge grain to long grain joints. On face frames like on kitchen
cabinets or bathroom vanity, I usually run a dado in the face frame and
a lip on the cabinet side, so I guess I could use biscuits there? Could
it be these things are over rated, or a tool in search of a use?

--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com

"Jack Stein" wrote in message
...
the biscuits
are compressed at the factory, and designed to swell when they get wet.

What happens when the water evaporates?

They were mechanically compressed. When they get wet, they expand to the
point they used to be in. They will stay that way.

Could it be these things are over rated,

Highly. I rarely find a use for mine.

"CW" wrote:

Could it be these things are over rated,

Highly. I rarely find a use for mine.

You would truly appreciate an episode of AmericamWoodShop where are
boy Scott used biscuits rather than basic joinery to build a computer
table.

Along with cutting pieces on the T/S with the blade inclined toward
the fence and a few more choice moves, but well you get the idea.

Lew

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:51:05 -0600, "Max"
wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:17:27 +1200, Peter Huebner
wrote:

In article ,
says...

A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.


I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period. It requires firm
pressure to insert 95% of the bisquits into the slot (I get the odd one
that slides in easily) and I sometimes have to use pliers to remove them
after a trial fit-up. Once coated with pva, I have to use a very small
wooden mallet to centre bisquits if I haven't gotten them into the right
place with my thumb, they're that tight.

Haven't tried the glue yet. It was apparent I was going to need to do
more alignment, so stopped.

Hard to say if your bisquits are crap, or if the PC is sloppy/wobbly or
if the blade is no good. My jointer sounds like a router, not like a
coffee grinder ...

Just for reference: I keep the lamello bisquits in a plastic bucket with
the lid merely laid snugly on top, rather than pressed down (it's so
tight, it's a pain to try and open if I seal it) and in my extremely
humid climate I haven't had noticable problems with the bisquits
swelling through sucking moisture from the air. The box-full of bisquits
I am still using a.t.m. is about 5 years old.

I just recently bought both PC (#10) and Bosch (#20) biscuits. All
are sloppy in the slots (I just cut for #20, but it's the same blade).
I'm sorta limited in what I can buy around here so I'll try some
Lamello next time I order toys.

I have a PC joiner and use (mostly) Bosch biscuits. (because they're the
most available here).
The biscuits fit snug but not so tight that they can't be removed before
gluing.
There is plenty of room for lateral adjustment; I think that was an
intentional design.

"Latteral" was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant that the
edge alignment is off by as much as 1/64" either way. That is, the
biscuit rattles from top to bottom (board laying flat) in the slot
about 1/64". Side to side the slop is at least 1/8", maybe 1/4".

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:59:55 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"krw" wrote:

What type of joint would you use for
edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little
less
after I rip everything down to final size.


Given a choice, I'd use tongue and groove.

Tongue in the wood, groove in the plywood, forget the biscuits except
at the corner miters in the wood.

I may do that next time. I'll have to play with T&G techniques. How
would you cut them? Using a shaper is cheating. ;-)

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:58:30 -0600, "Max"
wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:28:52 -0700, "CW"
wrote:

I have a biscuit joiner that gets used maybe once a year. It's good for
alignment if +- 1/64 is close enough. For edging, such as you are doing, I
wouldn't use it. There are more accurate ways. I really don't find the
biscuit joiner to be much use.

Seems to be two schools of thought; love 'em or hate 'em. Thought I'd
see which side I came down on. What type of joint would you use for
edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little less
after I rip everything down to final size.

snip

I've done quite a bit of edge joining for making table tops, that sort of
thing, and never had a problem with biscuits but I can't recall ever joining
anything less than 3/4" thick. For an edge along side plywood I just glue
the edge in place. No biscuits, no tongue and groove) No problems.

I was hoping I could use the biscuits for alignment. That's not
happening so I might just as well skip them. BTW, the plywood and
edging is 3/4" (nominal 23/32").

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:44:43 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

Now if you really want to be wowed and have a high end tool that produces
superior results and much much much stronger joints consider,

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/d...em-574258.html

Since purchacing this tool 2 years ago I have not seen either of my PC
joiners.

If I spent $800 on a tool that I could lift I'd better like it a lot
because I'd be sleeping with it.

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:23:36 -0700 (PDT), Luigi Zanasi
wrote:

On Jul 23, 6:13*pm, krw wrote:
A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. *I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

You don't need biscuits for edging. Just glue & clamping with a strip
of masking tape every 3-4 inches has worked really well for me. & it
is more accurate than biscuits.

Masking tape? What does that do?

Don't get me wrong, I love my biscuit joiner for 90 degree joints,
especially in sheet goods.

"krw" wrote:

I may do that next time. I'll have to play with T&G techniques.
How
would you cut them? Using a shaper is cheating. ;-)

If you ever get a chane to watch NYW, Norn does it with his table saw
epuipped with a dado and a sacrifical fence.

That would appear to be about the most simple and straight forward way
to do the job.

Have fun.

Lew

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:51:05 -0600, "Max"
wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:17:27 +1200, Peter Huebner
wrote:

In article ,
says...

A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.

2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.


I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period. It requires firm
pressure to insert 95% of the bisquits into the slot (I get the odd one
that slides in easily) and I sometimes have to use pliers to remove them
after a trial fit-up. Once coated with pva, I have to use a very small
wooden mallet to centre bisquits if I haven't gotten them into the right
place with my thumb, they're that tight.

Haven't tried the glue yet. It was apparent I was going to need to do
more alignment, so stopped.

Hard to say if your bisquits are crap, or if the PC is sloppy/wobbly or
if the blade is no good. My jointer sounds like a router, not like a
coffee grinder ...

Just for reference: I keep the lamello bisquits in a plastic bucket with
the lid merely laid snugly on top, rather than pressed down (it's so
tight, it's a pain to try and open if I seal it) and in my extremely
humid climate I haven't had noticable problems with the bisquits
swelling through sucking moisture from the air. The box-full of bisquits
I am still using a.t.m. is about 5 years old.

I just recently bought both PC (#10) and Bosch (#20) biscuits. All
are sloppy in the slots (I just cut for #20, but it's the same blade).
I'm sorta limited in what I can buy around here so I'll try some
Lamello next time I order toys.

I have a PC joiner and use (mostly) Bosch biscuits. (because they're the
most available here).
The biscuits fit snug but not so tight that they can't be removed before
gluing.
There is plenty of room for lateral adjustment; I think that was an
intentional design.

"Latteral" was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant that the
edge alignment is off by as much as 1/64" either way. That is, the
biscuit rattles from top to bottom (board laying flat) in the slot
about 1/64". Side to side the slop is at least 1/8", maybe 1/4".

There must be something wrong with the blade or the arbor (shaft). The blade
on mine cuts a slot just the right "thickness" to fit the thickness of the
biscuit. Do you have a caliper (or even better a micrometer) Measure the
thickness of the teeth on the blade. With the joiner setting on a smooth,
flat surface, measure the distance between the blade and the surface.
Rotate the blade (with the cord unplugged, heh, heh)
and measure again. If there's a difference, it's the arbor, (shaft).
The joiner has to be tight against the work and held tight so there's no
chance for it to move up.
Plunge *once* and back out. If you leave the blade in the slot more than a
couple seconds it will make the slot larger.
My son has the same PC joiner that I have and he has no problems either.

Max

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:59:55 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"krw" wrote:

What type of joint would you use for
edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little
less
after I rip everything down to final size.


Given a choice, I'd use tongue and groove.

Tongue in the wood, groove in the plywood, forget the biscuits except
at the corner miters in the wood.

I may do that next time. I'll have to play with T&G techniques. How
would you cut them? Using a shaper is cheating. ;-)

I have matching router bits. One cuts the tongue and the other cuts the
groove.
You have set the height just right but it works just fine.

Max

Max wrote:

There must be something wrong with the blade or the arbor (shaft). The
blade on mine cuts a slot just the right "thickness" to fit the
thickness of the biscuit. Do you have a caliper (or even better a
micrometer) Measure the thickness of the teeth on the blade. With the
joiner setting on a smooth, flat surface, measure the distance between
the blade and the surface. Rotate the blade (with the cord unplugged,
heh, heh)
and measure again. If there's a difference, it's the arbor, (shaft).
The joiner has to be tight against the work and held tight so there's no
chance for it to move up.
Plunge *once* and back out. If you leave the blade in the slot more than
a couple seconds it will make the slot larger.
My son has the same PC joiner that I have and he has no problems either.

Max

Not all biscuits are created equal. They're supposed to be 5/32" thick.
Quite a few brands aren't. Check the biscuit thickness first.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Jul 24, 5:07*pm, krw wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:23:36 -0700 (PDT), Luigi Zanasi

wrote:
On Jul 23, 6:13*pm, krw wrote:
A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. *I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:

You don't need biscuits for edging. Just glue & clamping with a strip
of masking tape every 3-4 inches has worked really well for me. & it
is more accurate than biscuits.

Masking tape? *What does that do?

Think of a 3/4" by 3/4" edging. I glue it to the edge of the plywood.
I use masking tape to hold it in place until the glue dries instead of
clamps or biscuits (or brads if you're a genuine Normite).

I put an 8" or so strip of masking tape on one side of the plywood
(perpendicular to the edge), pull it tight and stick it around the
edging to the other side of the plywood. This is my clamp. Like I
said, a strip every six inches, and Bob's your uncle.

Luigi

wrote in message

Can you elaborate what about your technique caused the slots to be too
wide? I don't see much that would effect the slot width. I'm in
Eastern Alabama so humidity (in the garage) is certainly an issue.
The PC and Bosch biscuits came in a plastic "bottle" with a screw top,
so should be good that way.


I had the most problems when cutting the face of ply next to the edge
to make case goods. There is only 3/4" of edge for the fence to catch and
the cutter face didn't have much more. Anyway, I let the tail of the joiner
droop as I was plunging and I ended up with wide slots.
Some other things that can cause a wide slot:
Sawdust under the fence that compresses during plunging.
Multiple plunging. Plunge ONCE, quickly.
A gummed up cutter blade.

I hope these help.
Art

"krw" wrote

I was hoping I could use the biscuits for alignment. That's not
happening so I might just as well skip them. BTW, the plywood and
edging is 3/4" (nominal 23/32").

Instead of using the front handle of the 557, hold your hand against the
top of the fence to secure it down on the ply. If you're still getting too
much slop and the edging ends up lower than the face veneer, add a layer
of masking tape to the bottom of the fence for cutting the ply. Remove it
prior to cutting the edging. This will raise the edging by the thickness of the
tape. Be sure to index the 557 from the faces of both pieces.
Art

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"CW" wrote:

Could it be these things are over rated,
Highly. I rarely find a use for mine.

You would truly appreciate an episode of AmericamWoodShop where are
boy Scott used biscuits rather than basic joinery to build a computer
table.

Along with cutting pieces on the T/S with the blade inclined toward
the fence and a few more choice moves, but well you get the idea.

I just watched him build a corner cabinet, and all the shelves were
screwed in with pocket screws. In fact, he put the entire cabinet
together with pocket screws I think. I have nothing against pocket
screws, or plate joinery, but really, there is always a time and a
place. Scott does a lot of things *I* consider bad form. The other day
he was cutting tapers on a leg using the band saw... This is something
normally done on the table saw... Stuff like this make the show worth
watching.

--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:44:43 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


If I spent $800 on a tool that I could lift I'd better like it a lot
because I'd be sleeping with it.

Different strokes!

krw wrote:

"Latteral" was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant that the
edge alignment is off by as much as 1/64" either way. That is, the
biscuit rattles from top to bottom (board laying flat) in the slot
about 1/64".

I think this would be fine by me. I don't recall every joining two
boards that needed no sanding. 1/128th on each side would make me happy.

Side to side the slop is at least 1/8", maybe 1/4".

I don't believe this matters. I saw our buddy Norm build an exterior
door and he used floating tenons and there was 1/4" at least on each
side. He said it didn't matter as far as strength was concerned. I
believe him.

--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com

"krw" wrote in message
...
I was hoping I could use the biscuits for alignment. That's not
happening so I might just as well skip them. BTW, the plywood and
edging is 3/4" (nominal 23/32").

They were made to do just that job, and does it rather well. Surely you have
some scraps left over to test it on first? Just 10 minutes of shop time will
allay or confirm your doubts.