I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and
plastics for several projects, and it seems that the only plausible
way to make these cuts consistent and accurate is to use a gang saw.

Unless there are readily available "kits" for something like this, can
anyone direct me to a "how to" on making these?(I'll need to make 30
cuts/grooves at a time).

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7 wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking:

I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and
plastics for several projects, and it seems that the only plausible
way to make these cuts consistent and accurate is to use a gang saw.

Unless there are readily available "kits" for something like this, can
anyone direct me to a "how to" on making these?(I'll need to make 30
cuts/grooves at a time).

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


How wide will the material be, how widely spaced will be the cuts, and how
narrow the kerfs?

On Feb 7, 2:12*am, "RAM³" wrote:
Searcher7 wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking:

I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and
plastics for several projects, and it seems that the only plausible
way to make these cuts consistent and accurate is to use a gang saw.

Unless there are readily available "kits" for something like this, can
anyone direct me to a "how to" on making these?(I'll need to make 30
cuts/grooves at a time).

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

How wide will the material be, how widely spaced will be the cuts, and how
narrow the kerfs?

As for the metal strips, I'd like to get close to the .156" width of
some PCB traces I'll be working with.(I can clip them to whatever
length I'll need).

And the grooves in wood/plastic are to be wide enough to accommodate
those strips, and have the same .156" spacing between the grooves.

So that is two different gang saws I'll need.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:34:47 -0800, Searcher7 wrote:

I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and plastics
for several projects, and it seems that the only plausible way to make
these cuts consistent and accurate is to use a gang saw.

Unless there are readily available "kits" for something like this, can
anyone direct me to a "how to" on making these?(I'll need to make 30
cuts/grooves at a time).

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Darren:

This sounds like a manufacturing setup. Production setup. There will be
lots and lots of things that this text-only newsgroup will be unable to
communicate. Your cuts / grooves are going to be too close together and
you might introduce minor flex on the gang saw shaft due to cutting
resistance of 30 cutters on a single shaft, IMHO. What level of
tolerances must your setup hold to?

Plus you are going to have to insure the stock material does not shift
while cutting; either lock the material down and move the cutters and
shaft, or setup some sort movable bed that holds the stock. Either way
it could get expensive. Really expensive. (Unless you have your own
machine shop of course.)

Have you considered a laser cutting/engraving ?

sawmillcreek.org (note the dot org) is a forum that has a sub-section on
laser engravers and CNC cutting. For about $20,000 you can get a good
wood / plastics laser cutting / engraving CNC rig. (Please, let that
forum suggest you what rigs, add-ons, makers, and costs.) You can have a
setup that will be *A LOT SLOWER* than a dedicated gang saw workstation,
but you will end up with the accuracy, repeatability, and consistency you
seem to be looking for. Maybe not ISO 9000 quality control consistency
at the $20,000 investment level, but close enough.

All said and done, maybe even a cheaper overall investment for your
enterprise.

Best of luck, and I hope others have other advise.

Phil

On Feb 7, 7:24 am, Searcher7 wrote:

Unless there are readily available "kits" for something like this, can
anyone direct me to a "how to" on making these?(I'll need to make 30
cuts/grooves at a time).



So that is two different gang saws I'll need.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Small horizontal mill with two arbors?

Dan

Phil Again wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:34:47 -0800, Searcher7 wrote:

I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and plastics
for several projects, and it seems that the only plausible way to make
these cuts consistent and accurate is to use a gang saw.

Unless there are readily available "kits" for something like this, can
anyone direct me to a "how to" on making these?(I'll need to make 30
cuts/grooves at a time).

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Darren:

This sounds like a manufacturing setup. Production setup. There will be
lots and lots of things that this text-only newsgroup will be unable to
communicate. Your cuts / grooves are going to be too close together and
you might introduce minor flex on the gang saw shaft due to cutting
resistance of 30 cutters on a single shaft, IMHO. What level of
tolerances must your setup hold to?

Plus you are going to have to insure the stock material does not shift
while cutting; either lock the material down and move the cutters and
shaft, or setup some sort movable bed that holds the stock. Either way
it could get expensive. Really expensive. (Unless you have your own
machine shop of course.)

Have you considered a laser cutting/engraving ?

sawmillcreek.org (note the dot org) is a forum that has a sub-section on
laser engravers and CNC cutting. For about $20,000 you can get a good
wood / plastics laser cutting / engraving CNC rig. (Please, let that
forum suggest you what rigs, add-ons, makers, and costs.) You can have a
setup that will be *A LOT SLOWER* than a dedicated gang saw workstation,
but you will end up with the accuracy, repeatability, and consistency you
seem to be looking for. Maybe not ISO 9000 quality control consistency
at the $20,000 investment level, but close enough.

All said and done, maybe even a cheaper overall investment for your
enterprise.

Best of luck, and I hope others have other advise.

Phil

A multi gang saw with a few 10 saw spindles may be more cost effective.

On Feb 7, 7:19*am, Phil Again wrote:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:34:47 -0800, Searcher7 wrote:
I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and plastics
for several projects, and it seems that the only plausible way to make
these cuts consistent and accurate is to use a gang saw.

Unless there are readily available "kits" for something like this, can
anyone direct me to a "how to" on making these?(I'll need to make 30
cuts/grooves at a time).

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Darren:

This sounds like a manufacturing setup. *Production setup. There will be
lots and lots of things that this text-only newsgroup will be unable to *
communicate. *Your cuts / grooves are going to be too close together and
you might introduce minor flex on the gang saw shaft due to cutting
resistance of 30 cutters on a single shaft, IMHO. *What level of
tolerances must your setup hold to?

Plus you are going to have to insure the stock material does not shift
while cutting; either lock the material down and move the cutters and
shaft, or setup some sort movable bed that holds the stock. *Either way
it could get expensive. Really expensive. *(Unless you have your own
machine shop of course.)

Have you considered a laser cutting/engraving ? *

sawmillcreek.org (note the dot org) is a forum that has a sub-section on
laser engravers and CNC cutting. *For about $20,000 you can get a good
wood / plastics laser cutting / engraving CNC rig. *(Please, let that
forum suggest you what rigs, add-ons, makers, and costs.) *You can have a
setup that will be *A LOT SLOWER* than a dedicated gang saw workstation,
but you will end up with the accuracy, repeatability, and consistency you
seem to be looking for. *Maybe not ISO 9000 quality control consistency
at the $20,000 investment level, but close enough. *

All said and done, maybe even a cheaper overall investment for your
enterprise.

Best of luck, and I hope others have other advise.

Phil

I don't know the specifics of the set up you are talking about, but
$20,000 is way out of the question!

For the cutting gang saw I figured I'd have to build a jig of some
sort. The metal("Beryllium Copper" or Phosphor
Bronze) to be cut into these strips will be anywhere between .005"
and .015" thick.(Whatever I can find cheaply).

I thought I'd make a channel that would be the same width as whatever
the standard width metal coil I'd slide under the gang saw. The idea
would be to score the metal enough so that I can easily break off the
strips. I'm assuming the saw would rotate against the direction of the
work, and that multiple passes may be necessary.

As long as the grooving saw can make grooves in the material(wood or
plastic) those strips would fit in, visual accuracy is really what
this comes down to.

It'll be tedious work, but I guess I'd have to progressively grind
down the thickness of the metal bushings between each saw until I get
to the proper spacing needed.

If I can buy enough of these saws and find a way to fit them together
in a group as large as 30, I guess the biggest issue would then be
sharpening them when needed. I have a mini lathe. (And a mini mill
that needs to be fixed).

I figure a gang saw like this would be an easier option than some sort
of indexing jig with stops where I'd have to make passes for every
parallel cut. But correct me if I'm wrong. (I doubt that would be as
accurate).

Anyway, I was hoping to get a handle on the materials I'd need to
build something like this. And I'm still open to ideas

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7 wrote:
....
I figure a gang saw like this would be an easier option than some sort
of indexing jig with stops where I'd have to make passes for every
parallel cut. But correct me if I'm wrong. (I doubt that would be as
accurate).
....

I'd be playing w/ small cutters like the Dremel saw blades, etc.,
determining what you need to cut the material manually.

Something on that order is small enough to go on a shaft although 30x
2x0.156" -- ~10" so it'll have to be a good quality hard tool steel
spindle to not be excessively flexible at any reasonable diameter.

--

On Feb 7, 12:42*pm, dpb wrote:
Searcher7 wrote:

... I figure a gang saw like this would be an easier option than some sort
of indexing jig with stops where I'd have to make passes for every
parallel cut. But correct me if I'm wrong. (I doubt that would be as
accurate).

...

I'd be playing w/ small cutters like the Dremel saw blades, etc.,
determining what you need to cut the material manually.

Something on that order is small enough to go on a shaft although 30x
2x0.156" -- ~10" so it'll have to be a good quality hard tool steel
spindle to not be excessively flexible at any reasonable diameter.

--

On Feb 7, 12:42*pm, dpb wrote:
Searcher7 wrote:

... I figure a gang saw like this would be an easier option than some sort
of indexing jig with stops where I'd have to make passes for every
parallel cut. But correct me if I'm wrong. (I doubt that would be as
accurate).

...

I'd be playing w/ small cutters like the Dremel saw blades, etc.,
determining what you need to cut the material manually.

Something on that order is small enough to go on a shaft although 30x
2x0.156" -- ~10" so it'll have to be a good quality hard tool steel
spindle to not be excessively flexible at any reasonable diameter.

--

Actually, to groove 30 slots that are .156", with the same distance
between each groove, would result in 30 grooves in about 4-3/4" of
material. And to cut 30 .156 strips would probably require a gang saw
that would be about 2-1/2" across.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On Feb 6, 11:24*pm, Searcher7 wrote:

I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and
plastics

As for the metal strips, I'd like to get close to the .156" width of
some PCB traces

Two ways to get metal strips this thickness, a shear (just a
flat plate and a guillotine blade), with limited length of
strip (I've seen 5 foot wide throats, though). Or, a rotary
device (not sure what the name is), consisting of a top roller
with small/large/small...diameters opposed to
a bottom roller with large/small/large... diameters, both rollers
geared to rotate together.

As for slotting metal and plastic, you will need controlled-diameter
saw blades of known widths: horizontal mill saw blades of
this type are available from machinery suppliers, and that, rather
than woodwork-type saw blades, will be your best source
of standardized parts to build your production machine.

On Feb 7, 2:18*pm, Searcher7 wrote:
On Feb 7, 12:42*pm, dpb wrote:



Searcher7 wrote:

... I figure a gang saw like this would be an easier option than some sort
of indexing jig with stops where I'd have to make passes for every
parallel cut. But correct me if I'm wrong. (I doubt that would be as
accurate).

...

I'd be playing w/ small cutters like the Dremel saw blades, etc.,
determining what you need to cut the material manually.

Something on that order is small enough to go on a shaft although 30x
2x0.156" -- ~10" so it'll have to be a good quality hard tool steel
spindle to not be excessively flexible at any reasonable diameter.

--

Actually, to groove 30 slots that are .156", with the same distance
between each groove, would result in 30 grooves in about 4-3/4" of
material. And to cut 30 .156 strips would probably require a gang saw
that would be about 2-1/2" across.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

That's almost the kind of thing one would do with a specially ground
set of shaper knives. IOW, think vertical?
Most power feeders will work just fine on their side. $ 1500 - $ 2K
for the kit? Set of carbide cutters, made like a comb..$2-300.00 for a
set of 3? Adaptable finger-jointing technology?

On Feb 7, 2:49*pm, whit3rd wrote:
On Feb 6, 11:24*pm, Searcher7 wrote:

I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and
plastics
As for the metal strips, I'd like to get close to the .156" width of
some PCB traces

Two ways to get metal strips this thickness, a shear (just a
flat plate and a guillotine blade), with limited length of
strip (I've seen 5 foot wide throats, though). *Or, a rotary
device (not sure what the name is), consisting of a top roller
with small/large/small...diameters opposed to
a bottom roller with large/small/large... diameters, both rollers
geared to rotate together.

You lost me. This is about width, not thickness. I need to get
accurate and consistent results, which cannot be done with the tools
you are referring to. Upon visual inspection, each strip must be the
same width. With your way there is no way to be accurate throughout
the length of the cut, or from one strip to the next. And your strips
would also be deformed at the edges along their length.

As for slotting metal and plastic, you will *need controlled-diameter
saw blades of known widths: horizontal mill saw blades of
this type are available from machinery suppliers, and that, rather
than woodwork-type saw blades, will be your best source
of standardized parts to build your production machine.

I'm not attempting to slot metal. Just wood and possibly plastic.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On Feb 7, 3:08*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Feb 7, 2:18*pm, Searcher7 wrote:



On Feb 7, 12:42*pm, dpb wrote:

Searcher7 wrote:

... I figure a gang saw like this would be an easier option than some sort
of indexing jig with stops where I'd have to make passes for every
parallel cut. But correct me if I'm wrong. (I doubt that would be as
accurate).

...

I'd be playing w/ small cutters like the Dremel saw blades, etc.,
determining what you need to cut the material manually.

Something on that order is small enough to go on a shaft although 30x
2x0.156" -- ~10" so it'll have to be a good quality hard tool steel
spindle to not be excessively flexible at any reasonable diameter.

--

Actually, to groove 30 slots that are .156", with the same distance
between each groove, would result in 30 grooves in about 4-3/4" of
material. And to cut 30 .156 strips would probably require a gang saw
that would be about 2-1/2" across.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

That's almost the kind of thing one would do with a specially ground
set of shaper knives. IOW, think vertical?
Most power feeders will work just fine on their side. $ 1500 - $ 2K
for the kit? Set of carbide cutters, made like a comb..$2-300.00 for a
set of 3? Adaptable finger-jointing technology?

You mean "adjustable" finger-jointing?

I'm not trying to make this an expensive project. :-)

For something with "stationary" blades as opposed to rotating cutters
(saws) as the cutting tools, I'd have to design something that would
be hand powered.(ie: Crank).

These of course would be a lot easier to sharpen when needed.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

In article
,
Searcher7 wrote:

On Feb 7, 2:12*am, "RAM³" wrote:
Searcher7 wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking:

I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and
plastics for several projects, and it seems that the only plausible
way to make these cuts consistent and accurate is to use a gang saw.

Unless there are readily available "kits" for something like this, can
anyone direct me to a "how to" on making these?(I'll need to make 30
cuts/grooves at a time).

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

How wide will the material be, how widely spaced will be the cuts, and how
narrow the kerfs?

As for the metal strips, I'd like to get close to the .156" width of
some PCB traces I'll be working with.(I can clip them to whatever
length I'll need).

This sounds like a job for a rolling mill from a jewelry maker. One
starts with wire and rolls it flat. Widely used for silver wire, which
has the same consistency as copper. Also widely available used, in a
wide variety of makes and models, manual and powered.

Joe Gwinn


And the grooves in wood/plastic are to be wide enough to accommodate
those strips, and have the same .156" spacing between the grooves.

So that is two different gang saws I'll need.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

"Searcher7" wrote in message
news:ee61059d-33ab-40c5-8f75-

You lost me. This is about width, not thickness. I need to get
accurate and consistent results, which cannot be done with the tools
you are referring to. Upon visual inspection, each strip must be the
same width. With your way there is no way to be accurate throughout
the length of the cut, or from one strip to the next. And your strips
would also be deformed at the edges along their length.

As for slotting metal and plastic, you will need controlled-diameter
saw blades of known widths: horizontal mill saw blades of
this type are available from machinery suppliers, and that, rather
than woodwork-type saw blades, will be your best source
of standardized parts to build your production machine.

I'm not attempting to slot metal. Just wood and possibly plastic.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7 wrote:
On Feb 7, 2:49 pm, whit3rd wrote:
On Feb 6, 11:24 pm, Searcher7 wrote:

I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and
plastics
As for the metal strips, I'd like to get close to the .156" width of
some PCB traces

Two ways to get metal strips this thickness, a shear (just a
flat plate and a guillotine blade), with limited length of
strip (I've seen 5 foot wide throats, though). Or, a rotary
device (not sure what the name is), consisting of a top roller
with small/large/small...diameters opposed to
a bottom roller with large/small/large... diameters, both rollers
geared to rotate together.

You lost me. This is about width, not thickness. I need to get
accurate and consistent results, which cannot be done with the tools
you are referring to. Upon visual inspection, each strip must be the
same width. With your way there is no way to be accurate throughout
the length of the cut, or from one strip to the next. And your strips
would also be deformed at the edges along their length.

As for slotting metal and plastic, you will need controlled-diameter
saw blades of known widths: horizontal mill saw blades of
this type are available from machinery suppliers, and that, rather
than woodwork-type saw blades, will be your best source
of standardized parts to build your production machine.

I'm not attempting to slot metal. Just wood and possibly plastic.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Actually , what he described is known in the cabinet trades as a slitter .
We use 'em to cut plastic laminates , but no reason they couldn't be used
for metal too . With tight control over the thickness of the discs , no
reason you couldn't get what you're after with ZERO WASTE . Like a rotary
scissor ... as far as the slotting operation , I have no ideas ... perhaps a
router ?
--
Snag
every answer
leads to another
question

Searcher7 wrote:
....
Actually, to groove 30 slots that are .156", with the same distance
between each groove, would result in 30 grooves in about 4-3/4" of
material.

30 x 0.156 (5/32") -- ~15/16*5 is the width of the grooves alone--it
would take twice that to have 30 slots plus the same distance between them.

--

Several people have tried to tell you cut the thin stuff with a
rolling shear or a tool like a Kett shear. A slitter would also
give you long controlled cuts. I don't know what PCB traces are,
so it leaves me a bit in the dark. Here is one that will cut 5/32
strips 4 at a time, depending on your material:
http://www.earthguild.com/products/rug/stripcut.htm
if your blades are set up really well, the same saw set up could
cut the groove and the inlays, but it will waste a lot of your PCB
trace material.

The gang saw part sounds strange, but one idea that comes to mind
would be to use woodworking slot cutter router bit blades. There
is one listed at 5/32 = .15625.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...s/bt_slot.html

I think most any other idea would require custom made blades to
get the width slot you seek. The next problem would be the
spacers, but standard washers come to mind to start. The shaft
and the driving motor are another matter. The proper size drill
rod sized to the slot cutter's bore might make an arbor. It would
need a stop collar and I would think you could cut threads for a
nut to pressure the blades. A pillow block at each end or even
the shaft mounted in hard wood blocks for experimenting might
work. As others have said, at some point there will be too much
flex in the shaft. Might be driven by pulley and small motor or
even run directly by router or drill. Just a few thoughts to get
you started. I assume you are talking about some shallow grooves.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Searcher7" wrote in message
...
I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and
plastics for several projects, and it seems that the only
plausible
way to make these cuts consistent and accurate is to use a gang
saw.

Unless there are readily available "kits" for something like
this, can
anyone direct me to a "how to" on making these?(I'll need to
make 30
cuts/grooves at a time).

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

"Searcher7" wrote in message
...
On Feb 7, 2:49 pm, whit3rd wrote:
On Feb 6, 11:24 pm, Searcher7 wrote:

I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and
plastics
As for the metal strips, I'd like to get close to the .156" width of
some PCB traces

Two ways to get metal strips this thickness, a shear (just a
flat plate and a guillotine blade), with limited length of
strip (I've seen 5 foot wide throats, though). Or, a rotary
device (not sure what the name is), consisting of a top roller
with small/large/small...diameters opposed to
a bottom roller with large/small/large... diameters, both rollers
geared to rotate together.

You lost me. This is about width, not thickness. I need to get
accurate and consistent results, which cannot be done with the tools
you are referring to. Upon visual inspection, each strip must be the
same width. With your way there is no way to be accurate throughout
the length of the cut, or from one strip to the next. And your strips
would also be deformed at the edges along their length.

As for slotting metal and plastic, you will need controlled-diameter
saw blades of known widths: horizontal mill saw blades of
this type are available from machinery suppliers, and that, rather
than woodwork-type saw blades, will be your best source
of standardized parts to build your production machine.

I'm not attempting to slot metal. Just wood and possibly plastic.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

A guillotine paper cutter. Since it cuts thin paper nicely, it should also
cut thin sheet metal nicely.

"Searcher7" wrote in message
...
On Feb 7, 2:49 pm, whit3rd wrote:
On Feb 6, 11:24 pm, Searcher7 wrote:

I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and
plastics
As for the metal strips, I'd like to get close to the .156" width of
some PCB traces

Two ways to get metal strips this thickness, a shear (just a
flat plate and a guillotine blade), with limited length of
strip (I've seen 5 foot wide throats, though). Or, a rotary
device (not sure what the name is), consisting of a top roller
with small/large/small...diameters opposed to
a bottom roller with large/small/large... diameters, both rollers
geared to rotate together.

You lost me. This is about width, not thickness. I need to get
accurate and consistent results, which cannot be done with the tools
you are referring to. Upon visual inspection, each strip must be the
same width. With your way there is no way to be accurate throughout
the length of the cut, or from one strip to the next. And your strips
would also be deformed at the edges along their length.

Either of these tools is fully capable of what you want though I think you
are over complicating this. You did not specify the material type or
thickness, nor did you specify the length or depth of the wooden part. This
calls for some assumptions on my part. Since you spoke of circuit board
traces, I'm assuming that you are going to use copper, probably less that
..010 thick. This can be bought in rolls in any width you want. As for the
wood, it can be grooved on the router table quite accurately and quickly.

On 2009-02-07, Searcher7 wrote:

[ ... ]

I've been staying out of your threads for a while, because I was
working on getting carpel tunnel syndrome just from the typing to *you*.

But -- I feel that I *have* to speak up here.

For the cutting gang saw I figured I'd have to build a jig of some
sort. The metal("Beryllium Copper" or Phosphor
Bronze) to be cut into these strips will be anywhere between .005"
and .015" thick.(Whatever I can find cheaply).

*Don't* even consider using BeCu (Beryllium Copper) in your
apartment (which is where you were working last I knew), or even in a
normal shop without specialized air and coolant control.

BeCu can result in serious lung damage -- starting about ten
years or so after you work with it. Slitting saws would produce fine
particles which could become airborne. Even the zero-loss techniques
generate a bit of this. The Phosphor Bronze, however, is quite safe to
work with.

I thought I'd make a channel that would be the same width as whatever
the standard width metal coil I'd slide under the gang saw. The idea
would be to score the metal enough so that I can easily break off the
strips. I'm assuming the saw would rotate against the direction of the
work, and that multiple passes may be necessary.

What is the minimum length which you need? With the slitting
saws (special milling cutters with spacers on an arbor), the best way
that I can think of is double sided tape holding it to a sacrificial
metal plate, and a stack of milling cutters on an arbor with spacers to
put them the right distance apart. You can't work with things as thin
as you want to use without some kind of control such as that from double
sided tape. The maximum length will be determined by the travel of the
horizontal mill's table. (And I personally don't think that you can get
even a small one upstairs to your apartment. The small Nichols
production mill which I have weighs about 1100 pounds, and needs three
phase power.

However -- an earlier suggestion which you just tossed away
would really be the better way to do it.

Two shafts containing alternate small and large diameter disks
of hardened steel. The upper shaft will have the large disc where the
lower shaft has the small one and vice versa. The thickness of the
disks is the width which you wish for the metal strips. The two are
geared to rotate opposite directions, so they pull in on one side, and
press out on the other. This acts as a large number of scissors,
cutting the thin metal into many strips at once. I can tell you about
one on a small scale made to trim Kroy labels down to a desired width
from wider tape which is feed through the printing machine.

The one I have is rather old, so I don't know whether the model
number is still valid, but go to a quality graphic arts supply store and
look for a "Kroy Tape Trimmer" part number "1335000". It was made to
work with older Kroy machines, but I use it with an electronic label
maker from Kory.

As long as the grooving saw can make grooves in the material(wood or
plastic) those strips would fit in, visual accuracy is really what
this comes down to.

This suggests that you design the strips to match the width of
standard milling cutters (the wheels which stack on arbors, not end
mills for a vertical mill). The cutters are expensive, and you'll have
to buy a number of them to stack on the arbor. The cutters are
available in a number of standard thicknesses, and better to get those
than to try to modify some to get a non-standard dimension.

It'll be tedious work, but I guess I'd have to progressively grind
down the thickness of the metal bushings between each saw until I get
to the proper spacing needed.

They are available (for milling arbors) in a number of
thicknesses, including made of shim stock. Determine the needed
spacing, and find out what the minimum number of sheets of standard shim
stock thicknesses will be to build up the thickness you need. There are
punches to cut the OD and the ID with the keyway from shim stock of
reasonable thicknesses.

If I can buy enough of these saws and find a way to fit them together
in a group as large as 30, I guess the biggest issue would then be
sharpening them when needed. I have a mini lathe. (And a mini mill
that needs to be fixed).

What material are you planning to cut? If glass epoxy, you'll
need carbide to avoid needing to re-sharpen ever pass or two. Many
other plastics will last for a long time.

And since these cutters all need to be the same diameter for it
to work properly, don't expect to be able to sharpen them and keep such
consistency -- unless you also invest in a tool and cutter grinder, and
work on all of the cutters in a single batch.

Go to some web site like MSC and look for the prices of the
milling cutters and slitting saws. I forget what the width you wanted
is, but a 3/16" (0.1875") wide cutter costs $49.41 *each*, and 5/32"
(0.1563") cost $98.21 *each*.

The thinner slitting saws appear to be mostly carbide these
days, and go for well over $200.00 each.

I figure a gang saw like this would be an easier option than some sort
of indexing jig with stops where I'd have to make passes for every
parallel cut. But correct me if I'm wrong. (I doubt that would be as
accurate).

It is not going to work well with material as thin as you plan,
unless you double-sided tape to a sacrificial plate for each run.

Anyway, I was hoping to get a handle on the materials I'd need to
build something like this. And I'm still open to ideas

I'm dropping back out of the thread now.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Feb 7, 10:56*am, Searcher7 wrote:
On Feb 7, 7:19*am, Phil Again wrote:





On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:34:47 -0800, Searcher7 wrote:
I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and plastics
for several projects, and it seems that the only plausible way to make
these cuts consistent and accurate is to use a gang saw.

Unless there are readily available "kits" for something like this, can
anyone direct me to a "how to" on making these?(I'll need to make 30
cuts/grooves at a time).

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Darren:

This sounds like a manufacturing setup. *Production setup. There will be
lots and lots of things that this text-only newsgroup will be unable to *
communicate. *Your cuts / grooves are going to be too close together and
you might introduce minor flex on the gang saw shaft due to cutting
resistance of 30 cutters on a single shaft, IMHO. *What level of
tolerances must your setup hold to?

Plus you are going to have to insure the stock material does not shift
while cutting; either lock the material down and move the cutters and
shaft, or setup some sort movable bed that holds the stock. *Either way
it could get expensive. Really expensive. *(Unless you have your own
machine shop of course.)

Have you considered a laser cutting/engraving ? *

sawmillcreek.org (note the dot org) is a forum that has a sub-section on
laser engravers and CNC cutting. *For about $20,000 you can get a good
wood / plastics laser cutting / engraving CNC rig. *(Please, let that
forum suggest you what rigs, add-ons, makers, and costs.) *You can have a
setup that will be *A LOT SLOWER* than a dedicated gang saw workstation,
but you will end up with the accuracy, repeatability, and consistency you
seem to be looking for. *Maybe not ISO 9000 quality control consistency
at the $20,000 investment level, but close enough. *

All said and done, maybe even a cheaper overall investment for your
enterprise.

Best of luck, and I hope others have other advise.

Phil

I don't know the specifics of the set up you are talking about, but
$20,000 is way out of the question!

For the cutting gang saw I figured I'd have to build a jig of some
sort. The metal("Beryllium Copper" or Phosphor
Bronze) to be cut into these strips will be anywhere between .005"
and .015" thick.(Whatever I can find cheaply).

I thought I'd make a channel that would be the same width as whatever
the standard width metal coil I'd slide under the gang saw. The idea
would be to score the metal enough so that I can easily break off the
strips. I'm assuming the saw would rotate against the direction of the
work, and that multiple passes may be necessary.

As long as the grooving saw can make grooves in the material(wood or
plastic) those strips would fit in, visual accuracy is really what
this comes down to.

It'll be tedious work, but I guess I'd have to progressively grind
down the thickness of the metal bushings between each saw until I get
to the proper spacing needed.

If I can buy enough of these saws and find a way to fit them together
in a group as large as 30, I guess the biggest issue would then be
sharpening them when needed. I have a mini lathe. (And a mini mill
that needs to be fixed).

I figure a gang saw like this would be an easier option than some sort
of indexing jig with stops where I'd have to make passes for every
parallel cut. But correct me if I'm wrong. (I doubt that would be as
accurate).

Anyway, I was hoping to get a handle on the materials I'd need to
build something like this. And I'm still open to ideas

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You can purchase flat, square or shaped (profile) wire that has been
drawn or formed for you (in many materials):
http://www.radcliffwire.com/capabilities.asp
http://www.unitedwirecompany.com/flatwire/index.htm
If you can properly fixture the wires, you might be able to hot press
the wires in a thermoplastic or pot them using an epoxy compound.

On Feb 7, 11:56*am, Searcher7 wrote:

While you obviously have a clear understanding of your finished work -
we do not share that advantage.

Instead of asking how to create a gang saw, it migh prove more helpful
to first try and share details of your objectives.

It is possible to create an "indexing jig (INCRA comes to mind) that
might allow for thirty repeated cuts.

But I would like to know the result you are trying to achieve e.g. a
1/4" thick sheet of plastic five inches square with 30 evenly-spaced
grooves each 1/64" deep and 1/64" wide centered on the material ETC.
ETC. How many peices you need to produce would also help

As to the metal strips, the length, width and thickness would help.

I have seen strips of brass, copper steel and aluminum at Ace and
(well-stocked) Hobby stores. It might well be true that teh company
that makes this material could supply you with a roll of material of
the desired width and thickness leaving you with only the grooving
task.

If, I understand our goal/objective the grooves are but deep enough to
accommodate a thin sliver of metal (inlaid!?), I have seen small
cutter wheels (2 - 2.5" dia) that could be mounted on a keyed shaft in
such a way as to allow you a "ganged" saw without the "flexing" issues
suggested in anther's reply. And, a combination of indexing and fewer
(15?) cutting wheels that could allow you room to add a support arbor
in the center of the "gang" to reduce the potential of "flexing" still
further.

While the $20,000 laser cutting setup is simply out of the question,
that forum might allow you to "meet" someone with that (or and even
"better" system willing to fabricate your part at a most reasonable
price - espeacially good option if its a "one off" or only a few are
needed.

Good luck

Look at http://www.woodmastertools.com The planer\molder\sander is
also a gang saw.

I have an 18" unit with 7hp motor. I have run up to 7 blades cutting
pine and you don't even hear a difference in the motor sound when it
is cutting. You will likely need to make a custom attachment if you
need to get the blades closer than about 1 1\4". The blades slide on a
shaft and have a collar that is about 5/8" each side of the blade but
I have made custom attachments and just used thrust washers between
blades and you can get them as close as you want.

You can find these units used some times on craigs or eBay.


On Feb 6, 10:34*pm, Searcher7 wrote:
I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and
plastics for several projects, and it seems that the only plausible
way to make these cuts consistent and accurate is to use a gang saw.

Unless there are readily available "kits" for something like this, can
anyone direct me to a "how to" on making these?(I'll need to make 30
cuts/grooves at a time).

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 23:24:45 -0800, Searcher7 wrote:
On Feb 7, 2:12Â*am, "RAM³" wrote:
Searcher7 wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking:

I need to cut soft metals into strips and also groove wood and
plastics for several projects, and it seems that the only plausible
way to make these cuts consistent and accurate is to use a gang saw.
....
How wide will the material be, how widely spaced will be the cuts, and
how narrow the kerfs?

As for the metal strips, I'd like to get close to the .156" width of
some PCB traces I'll be working with.(I can clip them to whatever length
I'll need).

And the grooves in wood/plastic are to be wide enough to accommodate
those strips, and have the same .156" spacing between the grooves.
....
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

You might get better help if you briefly say what the desired end-result
is. Are you trying to make a selector switch, a cross-switch, a
motherboard? For reasons such as low cost, reliable connections, and
being able to swap boards quickly, the usual approach is to make a PCB
(see eg http://www.olimex.com/pcb/index.html or http://www.4pcb.com/
http://www.pcbexpress.com/) and populate it with edge connectors like
http://www.jammaboards.com/store/56-...or/prod_9.html .
Also you can cut a connector like that parallel to the midline to get
a piece with 28 exposed contacts on .156" centers, or if saw is quite
thin, two pieces.

--
jiw

On Feb 7, 6:34*pm, dpb wrote:
Searcher7wrote:

...

Actually, to groove 30 slots that are .156", with the same distance
between each groove, would result in 30 grooves in about 4-3/4" of
material.

30 x 0.156 (5/32") -- ~15/16*5 is the width of the grooves alone--it
would take twice that to have 30 slots plus the same distance between them.

--

Ok, I did some checking and apparently ".156 on center." means the
trace in combination with a space is .156.

Therefore .078" is the actual size that my metal strips will have to
be.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On Feb 7, 10:42*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * I've been staying out of your threads for a while, because I was
working on getting carpel tunnel syndrome just from the typing to *you*.

* * * * But -- I feel that I *have* to speak up here.

Sorry about that. I've read several books and most of the usuble
information I still know I got from you in those past thread, along
with many others I've seen you post in.

For the cutting gang saw I figured I'd have to build a jig of some
sort. The metal("Beryllium Copper" or Phosphor
Bronze) to be cut into these strips will be anywhere between .005"
and .015" thick.(Whatever I can find cheaply).

* * * * *Don't* even consider using BeCu (Beryllium Copper) in your
apartment (which is where you were working last I knew), or even in a
normal shop without specialized air and coolant control.

* * * * BeCu can result in serious lung damage -- starting about ten
years or so after you work with it. *Slitting saws would produce fine
particles which could become airborne. *Even the zero-loss techniques
generate a bit of this. *The Phosphor Bronze, however, is quite safe to
work with.

Thanks there was some disagreement in another thread when I mentioned
this and was told that "Beryllium Oxide" was the culprit. But I bought
some Easi-Air 7255 High Efficiency filters just in case. Nevertheless,
Phosphor-Bronze is what I'll stick to. Thanks again

I thought I'd make a channel that would be the same width as whatever
the standard width metal coil I'd slide under the gang saw. The idea
would be to score the metal enough so that I can easily break off the
strips. I'm assuming the saw would rotate against the direction of the
work, and that multiple passes may be necessary.

* * * * What is the minimum length which you need?

Perhaps 3/4", but cutting the strips to length is the easy part. I
just have to turn the sheep or coil stock into strips first.

I copied your thoughts to go over again, but will try again to answer
everyone in one shot all the way down at the very bottom...


*With the slitting
saws (special milling cutters with spacers on an arbor), the best way
that I can think of is double sided tape holding it to a sacrificial
metal plate, and a stack of milling cutters on an arbor with spacers to
put them the right distance apart. *You can't work with things as thin
as you want to use without some kind of control such as that from double
sided tape. *The maximum length will be determined by the travel of the
horizontal mill's table. *(And I personally don't think that you can get
even a small one upstairs to your apartment. *The small Nichols
production mill which I have weighs about 1100 pounds, and needs three
phase power.

* * * * However -- an earlier suggestion which you just tossed away
would really be the better way to do it.

* * * * Two shafts containing alternate small and large diameter disks
of hardened steel. *The upper shaft will have the large disc where the
lower shaft has the small one and vice versa. *The thickness of the
disks is the width which you wish for the metal strips. *The two are
geared to rotate opposite directions, so they pull in on one side, and
press out on the other. *This acts as a large number of scissors,
cutting the thin metal into many strips at once. *I can tell you about
one on a small scale made to trim Kroy labels down to a desired width
from wider tape which is feed through *the printing machine.

* * * * The one I have is rather old, so I don't know whether the model
number is still valid, but go to a quality graphic arts supply store and
look for a "Kroy Tape Trimmer" part number "1335000". *It was made to
work with older Kroy machines, but I use it with an electronic label
maker from Kory.

As long as the grooving saw can make grooves in the material(wood or
plastic) those strips would fit in, visual accuracy is really what
this comes down to.

* * * * This suggests that you design the strips to match the width of
standard milling cutters (the wheels which stack on arbors, not end
mills for a vertical mill). *The cutters are expensive, and you'll have
to buy a number of them to stack on the arbor. *The cutters are
available in a number of standard thicknesses, and better to get those
than to try to modify some to get a non-standard dimension.

It'll be tedious work, but I guess I'd have to progressively grind
down the thickness of the metal bushings between each saw until I get
to the proper spacing needed.

* * * * They are available (for milling arbors) in a number of
thicknesses, including made of shim stock. *Determine the needed
spacing, and find out what the minimum number of sheets of standard shim
stock thicknesses will be to build up the thickness you need. *There are
punches to cut the OD and the ID with the keyway from shim stock of
reasonable thicknesses.

If I can buy enough of these saws and find a way to fit them together
in a group as large as 30, I guess the biggest issue would then be
sharpening them when needed. I have a mini lathe. (And a mini mill
that needs to be fixed).

* * * * What material are you planning to cut? *If glass epoxy, you'll
need carbide to avoid needing to re-sharpen ever pass or two. *Many
other plastics will last for a long time.

* * * * And since these cutters all need to be the same diameter for it
to work properly, don't expect to be able to sharpen them and keep such
consistency -- unless you also invest in a tool and cutter grinder, and
work on all of the cutters in a single batch.

* * * * Go to some web site like MSC and look for the prices of the
milling cutters and slitting saws. *I forget what the width you wanted
is, but a 3/16" (0.1875") wide cutter costs $49.41 *each*, and 5/32"
(0.1563") cost $98.21 *each*.

* * * * The thinner slitting saws appear to be mostly carbide these
days, and go for well over $200.00 each.

I figure a gang saw like this would be an easier option than some sort
of indexing jig with stops where I'd have to make passes for every
parallel cut. But correct me if I'm wrong. (I doubt that would be as
accurate).

* * * * It is not going to work well with material as thin as you plan,
unless you double-sided tape to a sacrificial plate for each run.

Anyway, I was hoping to get a handle on the materials I'd need to
build something like this. And I'm still open to ideas

* * * * I'm dropping back out of the thread now.

* * * * Good Luck,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---



Ok, there are 28 traces on each side of this fingerboard which is
plugged into a JAMMA connector: http://arcadecontrols.com/BBBB/splicer.jpg

I will need phosphor-bronze strips in the same width because I will be
soldering them to the traces on fingerboards like that shown. The
other end of these phosphor-bronze strips will run over a wood or
nylon housing similar to the black JAMMA housing pictured, but it will
not be hollow. Instead it will just have a slit that the fingerboard
will fit into. So I'm effectively separating the proximity of the
traces on both side of the fingerboard and wrapping them around the
housing that holds the fingerboard.

The (wood/nylon)housing's thickness will be 3/8" of an inch and the
phosphor-bronze strips will wrap around it just short of meeting at
the other side.

The grooves I mentioned will be on that housing to keep the phosphor-
bronze strips in place. I'll probably then cover the housing in
something like Plasti-coat to secure the strips in the housing
grooves.

*** Now imagine two of these housings coming together to complete a
connection.

So upwards of thirty saws with .078" wide kerfs (with .078 spaces
between them) would be needed to make the grooves in the (wood/nylon)
housing. And something that performs basically like a paper shredder
would be needed to make the strips, except that *scoring* the metal
would be easier to do. That way all I'd need to do is break off the
strips and easily cut them to whatever length I needed.

Again, rows of stationary blades as opposed to saws may be the better
way to go. The stock (as opposed to the cutting tool) would then be
stationary and held in some sort of holder/jig with metal sides. The
cutters could then be raked over the stock, perhaps multiple times in
order to score the phosphor-bronze enough for me to break off with a
little effort.

Well, I hope that was clearer.

Thanks a everyone.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7 wrote:
....
Ok, I did some checking and apparently ".156 on center." means the
trace in combination with a space is .156.
....

Yes, that's a different measurement entirely.

--

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:47:20 +0000 (GMT), Stuart
wrote:

In article ,
DoN. Nichols wrote:

*Don't* even consider using BeCu (Beryllium Copper) in your
apartment (which is where you were working last I knew), or even in a
normal shop without specialized air and coolant control.

Glad someone pointed it to save me the trouble.

Anything containing Be is hazardous. If you cut your finger, easy with
thin newly cut strip, you require specialist treatment from your doctor
and it can take months to heal.

Even disposing of the waste was a PITA. It had to go back to the supplier
and special transport documentation was required.

So when USAF drops dumb bombs they are polluting (safety clips are
Beryllium Copper) I find that slightly amusing. But then again full
metal jacket ain't clean either.

Mark