In article , dpb wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "CW"
wrote:
Would you be willing to pay $15.00 for an apple? How about $18.00 for a
pear? Those who claim that the problem is as simple as throwing out the
illegal either don't live in farm country or are not paying attention. Ever
picked apples? I have.

Yep. I've picked apples, too. Enough to know that the idea that using
American
labor to pick them would cause apples to cost fifteen bucks apiece is sheer
lunacy, a fictional number with no factual basis whatsoever, invented for no
purpose other than scaring people into believing the lie that our economy
would collapse without the cheap labor provided by illegal aliens.

Do the math. You claim an apple picker can easily make $20 an hour. Now let's

suppose that the picker's wage is only one-fifth of the retail price of an
apple. That means $100 retail worth of apples picked in an hour, or (at $15
per apple) one apple every nine minutes.

That's one damned lazy apple picker.

And one damned stupid grower, who's paying that lazy-ass picker three dollars
_per_apple_.

Problem is, you can't get "'Murricuns" to do the work at any price...

Problem is, that's a commonly-repeated myth, but it's still a myth. That just
isn't true.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Dec 1, 5:59 pm, "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)"
wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 13:40:35 -0800, "CW" wrote:
(BTW, it's our 26 wedding anniversary today)

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!!

#18 was last week for me.

I been married for 36 years....not all to the woman though...

"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" wrote in message

Daddy was a Senator, Chris has never had a real job, and now he hasn't
even been bothering to vote in the Senate, as he pursues a
Presidential campaign that doesn't even register in the primary polls.


Dodd is such a pompous ass that he told the Hartford Courant, "Though
I haven't done well in the polls, at least I'm enjoying myself." All
CT voters should be glad for that! G

Don't you be diss'n Teddy Kennedy's good friend. They're both working hard
for our government to save you from yourself.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:23:30 GMT, John Horner
wrote:

Brian Henderson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:44:13 GMT, John Horner
wrote:

There are very few modern Delta branded tools for which I'm willing to
pay a price premium, because it is almost all Chinese junk much like the
competition's. Why pay Delta prices for Grizzly quality?

There was a time 15-20 years ago when Delta was the top of the line
and brands like Jet were looked upon as crap. Now the situation has
reversed and you're getting the brands that were laughed at years ago
getting all the awards and traditionally respected brands losing out.

Indeed. This makes Delta/Porter-Cable's current attempt to reposition
itself as the brand of choice for "professional woodworkers" seem like
too-little, too late.

For a good laugh, check out the July 2007 press release:

http://www.deltaportercable.com/Abou...c-9f8f6a665324

These guys used to be the top of the food chain, but now are somewhere
in the middle.
As happened with Dewalt/Black&Decker talk about crap!!! I recently
bought a 45 YO Delta Unisaw and love it. Sold several other newer
Delta products at garage sale prices and was glad I didn't have to
haul them to the landfill.
The sad part is if you don't want to support China what are the
alternatives?? After they snubbed our navy even in "a port from storm"
which has never been done in the history of sailing ships will our
dip**** gov't limit imports....naw we are too STUPID to do
that!!!!!!!!!! It's the dollar folks, our gov't is selling us down the
tubes.

Yes! It's good to see there are some people that have given this some
thought. Most seem to be either "let them all in" or "throw them all out"
Neither works. The guest worker program would be the best of both. As you
say though, it would have to be implemented in the right manor otherwise, it
would turn into another "big business replacing Americans with cheap labor"
situation. Always a greedy basted trying to get over.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"CW" wrote in message
Would you be willing to pay $15.00 for an apple? How about $18.00 for a
pear? Those who claim that the problem is as simple as throwing out the
illegal either don't live in farm country or are not paying attention.

A well administered "guest worker" program, retroactive to include those
already here without granting citizenship and rewarding illegality, would
be
a most sensible solution ... along with elected officials with less
self-interest and enough sense to implement one. Countries in Europe have
been doing it for years, with less risk to sovereignty and greater benefit
to economy.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Come back when you've lived it. Then you will have something intelligent to
say. Go pick some fruit for a while.

If that's what it took, absolutely, but that's not even remotely close
to reality. Prices on produce would go up a few cents at best. What
you're presenting above is a complete and total lie and hopefully, you
just swallowed someone else's load of crap and are not purposely
spreading it yourself.

Thank you.

"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 13:40:35 -0800, "CW" wrote:

(BTW, it's our 26 wedding anniversary today)

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!!


#18 was last week for me.

I know the feeling. Good things just get better.
Have a good one.

"Glen" wrote in message
...
Dec. 19 will be twenty, and I'm more in love than the day I married her.

Glen

"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 13:40:35 -0800, "CW" wrote:

(BTW, it's our 26 wedding anniversary today)

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!!


#18 was last week for me.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:21:41 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
wrote:

On Nov 27, 11:41 am, Ralph wrote:


Try to stay on topic, John.

The topic being what. I thought this topic was about tools.

Your name is Ralph and the topic is Toyota oil filters.
Get with the program!
Then change the topic Who gives a damn about Toyota!

Horse****.

Problem is, that's a commonly-repeated myth, but it's still a myth. That
just
isn't true.


--

"Mark & Juanita" wrote

That hasn't exactly been working out too well for the Europeans either.
Suburbs around Paris have been in flames the past couple of weeks because
of some of those "guest workers". Britain is having similar problems.

The French couldn't administer a cluster f*ck, and the British let many of
those folks in starting about 40 years ago out of colonial guilt, not to
work.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:



"Mark & Juanita" wrote

That hasn't exactly been working out too well for the Europeans either.
Suburbs around Paris have been in flames the past couple of weeks because
of some of those "guest workers". Britain is having similar problems.

The French couldn't administer a cluster f*ck, and the British let many of
those folks in starting about 40 years ago out of colonial guilt, not to
work.


Not going to disagree with either of your assessments there. However, the
same problem is prevalent across Europe -- Spain, Denmark, Sweden, etc.
The thing that we do have going for us is that the immigrants we have
coming in at least share the same religious background, even if they don't
share the same language.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

CW wrote:
Would you be willing to pay $15.00 for an apple? How about $18.00 for a
pear? Those who claim that the problem is as simple as throwing out the
illegal either don't live in farm country or are not paying attention. Ever
picked apples? I have. You won't find enough Americans to get the crops in.
You couldn't pay most people enough to do the work. It is not because of low
pay. A (Mexican) apple picker can easily make $20.00 an hour. Mexican labor
is what keeps the fruit producers going.


So how did the farmers get their crops in, say, 40 years ago, before there was
the massive flood of illegals we have now?

Digger wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:23:30 GMT, John Horner
wrote:

Brian Henderson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:44:13 GMT, John Horner
wrote:

There are very few modern Delta branded tools for which I'm
willing to pay a price premium, because it is almost all Chinese
junk much like the competition's. Why pay Delta prices for
Grizzly quality?

There was a time 15-20 years ago when Delta was the top of the
line
and brands like Jet were looked upon as crap. Now the situation
has
reversed and you're getting the brands that were laughed at years
ago getting all the awards and traditionally respected brands
losing out.

Indeed. This makes Delta/Porter-Cable's current attempt to
reposition itself as the brand of choice for "professional
woodworkers" seem like too-little, too late.

For a good laugh, check out the July 2007 press release:

http://www.deltaportercable.com/Abou...c-9f8f6a665324

These guys used to be the top of the food chain, but now are
somewhere in the middle.
As happened with Dewalt/Black&Decker talk about crap!!! I recently
bought a 45 YO Delta Unisaw and love it. Sold several other newer
Delta products at garage sale prices and was glad I didn't have to
haul them to the landfill.
The sad part is if you don't want to support China what are the
alternatives?? After they snubbed our navy even in "a port from
storm"
which has never been done in the history of sailing ships

You might want to look into the reasons that Matthew Perry visited
Japan.

will our
dip**** gov't limit imports....naw we are too STUPID to do
that!!!!!!!!!! It's the dollar folks, our gov't is selling us down
the
tubes.

So how is keeping the prices of tools in the US higher than for the
rest of the world helping American industry to grow? If our prices
are the highest in the world we aren't going to be selling much on the
world market and face it, the US domestic market doesn't have a huge
amount of growth potential for durable goods.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 04:05:10 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

Don't you be diss'n Teddy Kennedy's good friend.

Good enough friend for the waitress sandwich...

ENOUGH!!!!!!!! BACK TO WOODWORKING FOR PETE'S SAKE.

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 06:59:09 -0600, (James Silcott)
wrote:

ENOUGH!!!!!!!! BACK TO WOODWORKING FOR PETE'S SAKE.


One could always skip this thread... G

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , dpb wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "CW"
wrote:
Would you be willing to pay $15.00 for an apple? How about $18.00 for a
pear? Those who claim that the problem is as simple as throwing out the
illegal either don't live in farm country or are not paying attention. Ever
picked apples? I have.
Yep. I've picked apples, too. Enough to know that the idea that using
American
labor to pick them would cause apples to cost fifteen bucks apiece is sheer
lunacy, a fictional number with no factual basis whatsoever, invented for no
purpose other than scaring people into believing the lie that our economy
would collapse without the cheap labor provided by illegal aliens.

Do the math. You claim an apple picker can easily make $20 an hour. Now let's
suppose that the picker's wage is only one-fifth of the retail price of an
apple. That means $100 retail worth of apples picked in an hour, or (at $15
per apple) one apple every nine minutes.

That's one damned lazy apple picker.

And one damned stupid grower, who's paying that lazy-ass picker three dollars
_per_apple_.
Problem is, you can't get "'Murricuns" to do the work at any price...

Problem is, that's a commonly-repeated myth, but it's still a myth. That just
isn't true.

It's a myth only for those who are not in the position of trying to find
workers...

--

James Silcott wrote:
ENOUGH!!!!!!!! BACK TO WOODWORKING FOR PETE'S SAKE.

What do you think Chris and Ted were doing with the waitress?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Just Wondering wrote:
CW wrote:
Would you be willing to pay $15.00 for an apple? How about $18.00 for a
pear? Those who claim that the problem is as simple as throwing out the
illegal either don't live in farm country or are not paying attention.
Ever
picked apples? I have. You won't find enough Americans to get the
crops in.
You couldn't pay most people enough to do the work. It is not because
of low
pay. A (Mexican) apple picker can easily make $20.00 an hour. Mexican
labor
is what keeps the fruit producers going.

So how did the farmers get their crops in, say, 40 years ago, before
there was the massive flood of illegals we have now?

Combination -- mostly the itinerants were still around, just there
weren't the other 10-20 M of so besides in the case of the seasonal
picking and so on. Earlier ('30s and so on), there were the Okies and
similar of Steinbeck fame...

The difference now is the US demographics are far different and welfare
programs mean the unemployed don't starve so they don't/won't work at
all in large numbers...

--

In article , "CW" wrote:
Horse****.

Not nearly as much horse**** as your mythical fifteen-dollar apples. Like I
said... do the math.

Problem is, that's a commonly-repeated myth, but it's still a myth. That
just
isn't true.


--




--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , Just Wondering wrote:
CW wrote:
Would you be willing to pay $15.00 for an apple? How about $18.00 for a
pear? Those who claim that the problem is as simple as throwing out the
illegal either don't live in farm country or are not paying attention. Ever
picked apples? I have. You won't find enough Americans to get the crops in.
You couldn't pay most people enough to do the work. It is not because of low
pay. A (Mexican) apple picker can easily make $20.00 an hour. Mexican labor
is what keeps the fruit producers going.


So how did the farmers get their crops in, say, 40 years ago, before there was
the massive flood of illegals we have now?

They were picked by Americans, of course, and we all paid $15 apiece for our
apples at the grocery store. Don't you remember?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:20:18 -0800, "CW" wrote:

Come back when you've lived it. Then you will have something intelligent to
say. Go pick some fruit for a while.

Going out and picking fruit has no impact on the economics of it. Try
again.

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 00:17:24 -0700, Just Wondering
wrote:

So how did the farmers get their crops in, say, 40 years ago, before there was
the massive flood of illegals we have now?

The same is true of all the jobs that are largely done by illegals
today. We didn't just start having maids in hotels after the illegals
showed up, Americans did those jobs just fine then, they'll do them
just fine now.

Just Wondering wrote:

So how did the farmers get their crops in, say, 40 years ago, before
there was the massive flood of illegals we have now?

Child slave labor! In the case of strawberries, my mother sent myself
and two brothers and two sisters off very early each morning during the
season to pick berries. The berry growers had their own old school
buses that made a regular route through the neighborhoods to gather up
all their little and big workers - there were many adults who also
worked the fields. As I recall, we were paid 25 cents/flat. The
laundry costs may have been more than we made, but mom was probably very
happy to have all five of gone from dawn to dusk. And yes, it was back
breaking work for a ten year old, but that and mowing lawns (push reel
mower) was my summer income. I suspect that most folks over 50 had some
similar summer jobs as kids.

Brian Henderson wrote:
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 00:17:24 -0700, Just Wondering
wrote:

So how did the farmers get their crops in, say, 40 years ago, before there was
the massive flood of illegals we have now?

The same is true of all the jobs that are largely done by illegals
today. We didn't just start having maids in hotels after the illegals
showed up, Americans did those jobs just fine then, they'll do them
just fine now.

Well, there were far different forces in play then than now -- early on,
of course, many of those jobs were indentured or other forms of working
off passage. That evolved into the various ethnic groups in sequence of
the various European groups -- Irish, Polish, Eye-Talian, etc., etc.,
etc., ... Each gradually was assimilated and tended to work themselves
up into the economic strata and no longer had to do such menial work for
the most part. For quite some time after emancipation there still was
little real opportunity for those and that tended to last for quite some
time (certainly until after WWII) before those barriers became low
enough that significant fractions could readily go elsewhere. Then,
come the 60s we had large numbers of boat people up until now...it's
larger now in absolute numbers because we're larger and also because the
demographics are changing in the US age distribution. I've also
previously pointed out the problems we have of what unemployed we have
being, for in large part unemployable or not being willing to be
employed as there are systems in place that make it far easier for them
to not be so...

The "send them all back" chant is good populist political rhetoric but
it doesn't solve the problem. The unfortunate thing is that neither
major political party has any interest in really seeing _any_ problem
"solved" as that would mean whichever was the leader would have
political advantage at their expense (real or imagined) which power is
the do-all/end-all at present. Unfortunate, but all too true...

--

It has every thing to do with understanding the situation. Go out and pick
for a day then come back. We'll wait.

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:20:18 -0800, "CW" wrote:

Come back when you've lived it. Then you will have something intelligent
to
say. Go pick some fruit for a while.

Going out and picking fruit has no impact on the economics of it. Try
again.

Brian Henderson wrote:

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 00:17:24 -0700, Just Wondering
wrote:

So how did the farmers get their crops in, say, 40 years ago, before there
was the massive flood of illegals we have now?

The same is true of all the jobs that are largely done by illegals
today. We didn't just start having maids in hotels after the illegals
showed up, Americans did those jobs just fine then, they'll do them
just fine now.

Americans did those jobs just fine back then because there were people who
needed jobs to live and took even low paying jobs until something better
came along.

One of the means to make sure that the laborers are available is to end
the dependency class mindset we have in this country. Sure, some jobs
aren't very appealing or inviting -- they aren't meant to be careers, they
are meant to be a stepping stone to the next job or pay for education. My
grandmother cleaned houses when she was young. I raised pigs when I was
going to college, others have waited tables, etc. Why in the world should
people think that the rest of the country owes them a living just because
the jobs available aren't glamour jobs? It might mean that people will
have to move to where the jobs are and leave behind family and friends; I'm
sorry but that is life in the world. All of the angst over how much the
military costs, or the failures of this technology program, etc we hear
daily. But do we ever hear anything about the wasted trillions of dollars
dumped into a system that makes it more profitable for someone to stay home
rather than take a low-paying job or that built houses for unemployed
people in Appalachia, but after the houses were built left the residents in
nice houses in an area where all the jobs were gone?


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:12:17 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:

Another poster child: Hillary Clinton. She moved to New York solely to
run for office and now claims that her qualification for office is that she
was married to the president and has been in the white house before
(paraphrasing). That, and it's "her turn".

I am NOT a Billary fan, but as I recall, she's had a few real jobs, hasn't she?
Now, as for her husband, THAT is a career politician..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , dpb wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "CW"

wrote:
Would you be willing to pay $15.00 for an apple? How about $18.00 for
a
pear? Those who claim that the problem is as simple as throwing out
the
illegal either don't live in farm country or are not paying
attention. Ever
picked apples? I have.
Yep. I've picked apples, too. Enough to know that the idea that using
American
labor to pick them would cause apples to cost fifteen bucks apiece is
sheer
lunacy, a fictional number with no factual basis whatsoever, invented
for no
purpose other than scaring people into believing the lie that our
economy
would collapse without the cheap labor provided by illegal aliens.

Do the math. You claim an apple picker can easily make $20 an hour.
Now let's
suppose that the picker's wage is only one-fifth of the retail price
of an
apple. That means $100 retail worth of apples picked in an hour, or
(at $15
per apple) one apple every nine minutes.

That's one damned lazy apple picker.

And one damned stupid grower, who's paying that lazy-ass picker three
dollars
_per_apple_.
Problem is, you can't get "'Murricuns" to do the work at any price...

Problem is, that's a commonly-repeated myth, but it's still a myth. That
just
isn't true.

It's a myth only for those who are not in the position of trying to find
workers...

--

Doug Miller's only contribution to this group is to argue. He does nothing
else. He does not seem to care if he is right or wrong as long as he is
arguing. He has joined the rest of the idiots in my bozo bin.

On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:03:12 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
wrote:

On Dec 1, 5:59 pm, "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)"
wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 13:40:35 -0800, "CW" wrote:
(BTW, it's our 26 wedding anniversary today)

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!!

#18 was last week for me.

I been married for 36 years....not all to the woman though...

I'm coming up on 30 years...
5, 19 and 6... :-[]


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...
Swingman wrote:



"Mark & Juanita" wrote

That hasn't exactly been working out too well for the Europeans
either.
Suburbs around Paris have been in flames the past couple of weeks
because
of some of those "guest workers". Britain is having similar problems.

The French couldn't administer a cluster f*ck, and the British let many
of
those folks in starting about 40 years ago out of colonial guilt, not to
work.


Not going to disagree with either of your assessments there. However,
the
same problem is prevalent across Europe -- Spain, Denmark, Sweden, etc.
The thing that we do have going for us is that the immigrants we have
coming in at least share the same religious background, even if they don't
share the same language.



Muslim? Buddhist?

On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:20:59 GMT, (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article , "CW" wrote:
Would you be willing to pay $15.00 for an apple? How about $18.00 for a
pear? Those who claim that the problem is as simple as throwing out the
illegal either don't live in farm country or are not paying attention. Ever
picked apples? I have.

Yep. I've picked apples, too. Enough to know that the idea that using American
labor to pick them would cause apples to cost fifteen bucks apiece is sheer
lunacy, a fictional number with no factual basis whatsoever, invented for no
purpose other than scaring people into believing the lie that our economy
would collapse without the cheap labor provided by illegal aliens.

Do the math. You claim an apple picker can easily make $20 an hour. Now let's
suppose that the picker's wage is only one-fifth of the retail price of an
apple. That means $100 retail worth of apples picked in an hour, or (at $15
per apple) one apple every nine minutes.

That's one damned lazy apple picker.

And one damned stupid grower, who's paying that lazy-ass picker three dollars
_per_apple_.

I notice that the man said a "good picker" can make $20 an hour..

In my experience, the pay is ZERO $ an hour and you get paid based on how many
boxes you fill..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 00:17:24 -0700, Just Wondering wrote:

CW wrote:
Would you be willing to pay $15.00 for an apple? How about $18.00 for a
pear? Those who claim that the problem is as simple as throwing out the
illegal either don't live in farm country or are not paying attention. Ever
picked apples? I have. You won't find enough Americans to get the crops in.
You couldn't pay most people enough to do the work. It is not because of low
pay. A (Mexican) apple picker can easily make $20.00 an hour. Mexican labor
is what keeps the fruit producers going.


So how did the farmers get their crops in, say, 40 years ago, before there was
the massive flood of illegals we have now?

I think that there were 2 factors... One was that you had more family farms
then, and the whole family worked.. as opposed to now when most kids are looking
for ways to get into careers other than farming..
Also, I'm not sure when the "bracero" (SP) program started, but that was a big
push of foreign pickers every season..

I'd also guess that borders were a lot looser and folks worked wherever the work
was..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 05:09:51 -0500, "J. Clarke" wrote:


So how is keeping the prices of tools in the US higher than for the
rest of the world helping American industry to grow? If our prices
are the highest in the world we aren't going to be selling much on the
world market and face it, the US domestic market doesn't have a huge
amount of growth potential for durable goods.

I believe in a global economy...
Can't find a factory job making tools? Get a job selling, repairing,
advertising, or using them..
I remember folks used to give me **** for driving a Japanese truck instead of
"buying American"..
I use to tell them that besides the fact that Ford is a major player in Madza, I
bought the truck from an American dealership... I'd also assume that it was
worked on, transported, resold, etc. by American companies with American
employees...

So, now I drive a Dodge truck that was made in the USA...
Of course, it was assembled in Mexico and Dodge is owned by a German company,
but it's "Made in USA"


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

CW wrote:


"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...
Swingman wrote:



"Mark & Juanita" wrote

That hasn't exactly been working out too well for the Europeans
either.
Suburbs around Paris have been in flames the past couple of weeks
because
of some of those "guest workers". Britain is having similar problems.

The French couldn't administer a cluster f*ck, and the British let many
of
those folks in starting about 40 years ago out of colonial guilt, not
to work.


Not going to disagree with either of your assessments there. However,
the
same problem is prevalent across Europe -- Spain, Denmark, Sweden, etc.
The thing that we do have going for us is that the immigrants we have
coming in at least share the same religious background, even if they
don't share the same language.



Muslim? Buddhist?

Get back to me with the stats on the number of muslims and buddhists
coming into the country to pick crops (legally or illegally). Then we can
discuss your snipe.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

mac davis wrote:

On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:12:17 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Another poster child: Hillary Clinton. She moved to New York solely to
run for office and now claims that her qualification for office is that
she was married to the president and has been in the white house before
(paraphrasing). That, and it's "her turn".

I am NOT a Billary fan, but as I recall, she's had a few real jobs, hasn't
she? Now, as for her husband, THAT is a career politician..



About the only one that you could count would be her stint at the Rose Law
firm and there is some question that even that was more of a tie-in to Bill
to curry favor while he was governor of Arkansas (White Water, cattle
futures, etc).

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

mac davis wrote:

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 00:17:24 -0700, Just Wondering
wrote:

CW wrote:
Would you be willing to pay $15.00 for an apple? How about $18.00 for a
pear? Those who claim that the problem is as simple as throwing out the
illegal either don't live in farm country or are not paying attention.
Ever picked apples? I have. You won't find enough Americans to get the
crops in. You couldn't pay most people enough to do the work. It is not
because of low
pay. A (Mexican) apple picker can easily make $20.00 an hour. Mexican
labor is what keeps the fruit producers going.


So how did the farmers get their crops in, say, 40 years ago, before there
was the massive flood of illegals we have now?

I think that there were 2 factors... One was that you had more family
farms then, and the whole family worked.. as opposed to now when most kids
are looking for ways to get into careers other than farming..

Even back in the 40's when my mother was home on the farm, the whole
family worked, but my granddad did hire migrant workers at the peaks of the
season (chopping cotton and picking cotton). There were people who
followed the harvest or other crop seasons from Texas on north throughout
the year. From what I understand however, they were all American citizens
or here legally.


Also, I'm not sure when the "bracero" (SP) program started, but that was a
big push of foreign pickers every season..

I'd also guess that borders were a lot looser and folks worked wherever
the work was..


Even back then there were issues with illegals; I know my granddad would
never knowingly hire anyone who was illegal. But back then,there were
citizens who would also do the work



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

mac davis wrote:
....

Of course, it was assembled in Mexico and Dodge is owned by a German company,
....

"was" is the correct tense (at the moment, anyway, who knows what's next)...

--

In article , "CW" wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , dpb wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "CW"

wrote:
Would you be willing to pay $15.00 for an apple? How about $18.00 for
a
pear? Those who claim that the problem is as simple as throwing out
the
illegal either don't live in farm country or are not paying
attention. Ever
picked apples? I have.
Yep. I've picked apples, too. Enough to know that the idea that using
American
labor to pick them would cause apples to cost fifteen bucks apiece is
sheer
lunacy, a fictional number with no factual basis whatsoever, invented
for no
purpose other than scaring people into believing the lie that our
economy
would collapse without the cheap labor provided by illegal aliens.

Do the math. You claim an apple picker can easily make $20 an hour.
Now let's
suppose that the picker's wage is only one-fifth of the retail price
of an
apple. That means $100 retail worth of apples picked in an hour, or
(at $15
per apple) one apple every nine minutes.

That's one damned lazy apple picker.

And one damned stupid grower, who's paying that lazy-ass picker three
dollars
_per_apple_.
Problem is, you can't get "'Murricuns" to do the work at any price...

Problem is, that's a commonly-repeated myth, but it's still a myth. That
just
isn't true.

It's a myth only for those who are not in the position of trying to find
workers...

--

Doug Miller's only contribution to this group is to argue. He does nothing
else. He does not seem to care if he is right or wrong as long as he is
arguing. He has joined the rest of the idiots in my bozo bin.

Can't take it, when somebody points out you've been posting nonsense, eh?
Crybaby.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.