I have what was sold as Honduran mahogany and it looks like it
to me. What is bothersome is that parts of my boards refuse to be
smooth..... I can sand (to 220, which is what I read is the max
useful for mahogany) or scrape as much as I want and still there are
these parts, typically an inch wide and between 6-12 inches long, that
remain fuzzy. They don't "tear out" so much as just look fuzzy. A few
months after finishing them with oil and shellac, those parts look as
if they have sucked up all the finish and some are beginning to
lighten up - a blond streak in brown hair, so to speak.

So, it this the behavior of some wood other than HM? Or is it
sapwood? Or is it my bad finishing technique? ?? ??

Thanx


=====
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
=====
{remove curly brackets for email}

I have used mahogany for many years and have experienced what you describe
very seldom and never is what is classified as "honduras"mahogany . For that
reason I never use anything but Honduras , that is the only way I can
guarantee quality . Seems to me you have been sold some inferior quality
stuff for honduras prices . You might ask the wood merchant top see his
purchase order, if it was offered to him as honduras then he needs to check
his sources ....mjh

--
mike hide



"Charles Bragg (no, dammit, not the painter)"
wrote in message
...
I have what was sold as Honduran mahogany and it looks like it
to me. What is bothersome is that parts of my boards refuse to be
smooth..... I can sand (to 220, which is what I read is the max
useful for mahogany) or scrape as much as I want and still there are
these parts, typically an inch wide and between 6-12 inches long, that
remain fuzzy. They don't "tear out" so much as just look fuzzy. A few
months after finishing them with oil and shellac, those parts look as
if they have sucked up all the finish and some are beginning to
lighten up - a blond streak in brown hair, so to speak.

So, it this the behavior of some wood other than HM? Or is it
sapwood? Or is it my bad finishing technique? ?? ??

Thanx


=====
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
=====
{remove curly brackets for email}

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:41:35 GMT,
(Charles Bragg (no, dammit,
not the painter)) wrote:

I have what was sold as Honduran mahogany and it looks like it
to me. What is bothersome is that parts of my boards refuse to be
smooth.....

True Honduran Mahogany gets as smooth as buttered silk, like slipping
into the best girlfriend that you ever had.

What you describe is more akin to what goes under the tradename
Philippine Mahogany, which is crankier than the worst wife that you
could ever imagine, twice as hairy, and not really a mahogany at all.

As per the analogy, they come from different places and have different
temperaments.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Actually what you have is African Mahogany and it is usually passed off as
Genuine Mahagony
It is a good wood but can be a bear to work with. You will also note it is
darker and can have some black streaks going through it.

Right now due to the Politcal Climate the supply of Honduras is going to Dry
up and Prices are about to sky
rocket if they haven't yet.

Phillipine Mahagony closer color to Honduras, it is a lot softer and is
generally known as cheap ****.

Good Luck,
George

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:41:35 GMT,
(Charles Bragg (no, dammit,
not the painter)) wrote:

I have what was sold as Honduran mahogany and it looks like it
to me. What is bothersome is that parts of my boards refuse to be
smooth.....

True Honduran Mahogany gets as smooth as buttered silk, like slipping
into the best girlfriend that you ever had.

What you describe is more akin to what goes under the tradename
Philippine Mahogany, which is crankier than the worst wife that you
could ever imagine, twice as hairy, and not really a mahogany at all.

As per the analogy, they come from different places and have different
temperaments.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:20:04 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
wrote:

Actually what you have is African Mahogany and it is usually passed off as
Genuine Mahagony



"That's a bold statement." (cf PulpFiction, Tarantino, 1994.)

How did you intuit that he was dealing with African Mahogany, as
opposed to Philipine Mahogany?


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...

like slipping into the best girlfriend that you ever had.

Hmm - I'll be unproductive for the next 15 minutes while I reminisce about
my own experiences here.

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:35:39 GMT, "mttt"
wrote:


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
.. .

like slipping into the best girlfriend that you ever had.

Hmm - I'll be unproductive for the next 15 minutes while I reminisce about
my own experiences here.


Sorry, that didn't come out right.. Writing faster than I'm thinking.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

no, dammit, not the painter) said:

I have what was sold as Honduran mahogany

to me. What is bothersome is that parts of my boards ...
just look fuzzy.

So, it this the behavior of some wood other than HM? Or is
it sapwood? Or is it my bad finishing technique? ?? ??

There is a wood condition, I have forgotten the obvious name. Anyway,
there is nothing you can do, it will not go away, you can't sand,
scrape or plane it out.

I found this reference in Brazilian Mahogany:
http://www.timpan.co.nz/timbers/mahogany_swietenia.html

"Fairly easy to work. The presence of tension wood gives rise to
fuzzy surfaces and deeply interlocked grain causes some grain tearing
in quarter sawn surfaces."
--
McQualude

Phillipine Mahagony will not do what he described and African Mahagony is
notorious for just that.
I'm sitting on a few hundred feet of 8/4 African I bought about 5 years ago
and do not want to use it
for the exact same trouble he had with it, as I said it is a beautful
hardwood but a bear to work.

Anytime I call in for Mahogany and they say Genuine, I always ask, Hondourus
or African, It usually will be African, If it is Hondorus they will sate so
and it will always reflect in the Price also.

George


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:20:04 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
wrote:

Actually what you have is African Mahogany and it is usually passed off
as
Genuine Mahagony



"That's a bold statement." (cf PulpFiction, Tarantino, 1994.)

How did you intuit that he was dealing with African Mahogany, as
opposed to Philipine Mahogany?


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Charles Bragg (no, dammit, not the painter)
schreef
I have what was sold as Honduran mahogany and it looks like it
to me. What is bothersome is that parts of my boards refuse to be
smooth..... I can sand (to 220, which is what I read is the max
useful for mahogany) or scrape as much as I want and still there are
these parts, typically an inch wide and between 6-12 inches long, that
remain fuzzy. They don't "tear out" so much as just look fuzzy. A few
months after finishing them with oil and shellac, those parts look as
if they have sucked up all the finish and some are beginning to
lighten up - a blond streak in brown hair, so to speak.

So, it this the behavior of some wood other than HM? Or is it
sapwood? Or is it my bad finishing technique? ?? ??

+ + +
I can't say.
- as to if this is mahogany, who can tell from just a few words?
- there is a phenomenon called reaction wood, which will do weird things,
but I cannot say I ever heard this being a problem in mahogany. Crotch
pieces should have plenty of reaction wood and these obviously can be
finished just fine.
- it is not sapwood, since this would have a different color
- it should not be interlocked grain, since although this will cause tearout
it can sanded quite smooth (may take a long time in bad cases). Note that
scraping would not do it, since the streak would have to be scraped in the
opposite direction from the surrounding wood). If is interlocked grain then
sanding thoroughly and refinishing (or just refinishing) should solve it.

My guess would be badly interlocked grain, since this will locally behave
like end grain, but it is a guess only.
PvR

Well I'm not feeling to good now....

I just bought a bunch of African Mahogany fairly cheap. Most of it has
been planned and was real smooth so I thought I would chance it. Pay
your money, take your chances. I was aware of it's reputation however.
But you know how it is, I thought my experience would be different. Hope
springs eternal.

John

Charles Bragg (no, dammit, not the painter) wrote:

I have what was sold as Honduran mahogany and it looks like it
to me. What is bothersome is that parts of my boards refuse to be
smooth..... I can sand (to 220, which is what I read is the max
useful for mahogany) or scrape as much as I want and still there are
these parts, typically an inch wide and between 6-12 inches long, that
remain fuzzy. They don't "tear out" so much as just look fuzzy. A few
months after finishing them with oil and shellac, those parts look as
if they have sucked up all the finish and some are beginning to
lighten up - a blond streak in brown hair, so to speak.

So, it this the behavior of some wood other than HM? Or is it
sapwood? Or is it my bad finishing technique? ?? ??

Thanx


=====
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
=====
{remove curly brackets for email}

Well I'm not feeling to good now....

I just bought a bunch of African Mahogany fairly cheap. Most of it has
been planned and was real smooth so I thought I would chance it. Pay
your money, take your chances. I was aware of it's reputation however.
But you know how it is, I thought my experience would be different. Hope
springs eternal.

John

Charles Bragg (no, dammit, not the painter) wrote:

I have what was sold as Honduran mahogany and it looks like it
to me. What is bothersome is that parts of my boards refuse to be
smooth..... I can sand (to 220, which is what I read is the max
useful for mahogany) or scrape as much as I want and still there are
these parts, typically an inch wide and between 6-12 inches long, that
remain fuzzy. They don't "tear out" so much as just look fuzzy. A few
months after finishing them with oil and shellac, those parts look as
if they have sucked up all the finish and some are beginning to
lighten up - a blond streak in brown hair, so to speak.

So, it this the behavior of some wood other than HM? Or is it
sapwood? Or is it my bad finishing technique? ?? ??

Thanx


=====
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
=====
{remove curly brackets for email}

And when the wife reads this you will probably add "different people" :]

--
mike hide



"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:41:35 GMT,
(Charles Bragg (no, dammit,
not the painter)) wrote:

I have what was sold as Honduran mahogany and it looks like it
to me. What is bothersome is that parts of my boards refuse to be
smooth.....

True Honduran Mahogany gets as smooth as buttered silk, like slipping
into the best girlfriend that you ever had.

What you describe is more akin to what goes under the tradename
Philippine Mahogany, which is crankier than the worst wife that you
could ever imagine, twice as hairy, and not really a mahogany at all.

As per the analogy, they come from different places and have different
temperaments.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

No doubt to the embargo on Honduras Mahogany . I read the other day that
trees are being cut in the Amazon basin at a greater rate than ever before .
Now when they clear land [generally worthless for grazing cattle and the
reason it is clearcut] instead of bringing the Mahogany to market [ because
of the embargo ] they will just burn it with the rest of the cut timber. The
only people who are happy no doubt are primarily the American treehuggersand
their lobby.
--
mike hide



"George M. Kazaka" wrote in message
...
Actually what you have is African Mahogany and it is usually passed off as
Genuine Mahagony
It is a good wood but can be a bear to work with. You will also note it is
darker and can have some black streaks going through it.

Right now due to the Politcal Climate the supply of Honduras is going to
Dry
up and Prices are about to sky
rocket if they haven't yet.

Phillipine Mahagony closer color to Honduras, it is a lot softer and is
generally known as cheap ****.

Good Luck,
George

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:41:35 GMT,
(Charles Bragg (no, dammit,
not the painter)) wrote:

I have what was sold as Honduran mahogany and it looks like it
to me. What is bothersome is that parts of my boards refuse to be
smooth.....

True Honduran Mahogany gets as smooth as buttered silk, like slipping
into the best girlfriend that you ever had.

What you describe is more akin to what goes under the tradename
Philippine Mahogany, which is crankier than the worst wife that you
could ever imagine, twice as hairy, and not really a mahogany at all.

As per the analogy, they come from different places and have different
temperaments.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Home Depot was selling some crap wood under the name "Aspen" that does this
same thing. You can sand the hell out of it, and it stays fuzzy. I took a
load of it back for a refund - after I'd cut it to size and started sanding.
Told then it was unusable, even painted. They took it back.

I've been buying "genuine mahogany" from a company that claims it comes from
managed forests in South America. It's great wood, works easy, finishes
great and it's cheaper than poplar or oak, if you're willing to buy it by
the bundle.

Bob


"Charles Bragg (no, dammit, not the painter)"
wrote in message
...
I have what was sold as Honduran mahogany and it looks like it
to me. What is bothersome is that parts of my boards refuse to be
smooth..... I can sand (to 220, which is what I read is the max
useful for mahogany) or scrape as much as I want and still there are
these parts, typically an inch wide and between 6-12 inches long, that
remain fuzzy. They don't "tear out" so much as just look fuzzy. A few
months after finishing them with oil and shellac, those parts look as
if they have sucked up all the finish and some are beginning to
lighten up - a blond streak in brown hair, so to speak.

So, it this the behavior of some wood other than HM? Or is it
sapwood? Or is it my bad finishing technique? ?? ??

Thanx


=====
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
=====
{remove curly brackets for email}

Tom,

Thank you for the very vivid articulation of Honduras Mahogany. I laughed
for minutes.

Bob

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:41:35 GMT,
(Charles Bragg (no, dammit,
not the painter)) wrote:

I have what was sold as Honduran mahogany and it looks like it
to me. What is bothersome is that parts of my boards refuse to be
smooth.....

True Honduran Mahogany gets as smooth as buttered silk, like slipping
into the best girlfriend that you ever had.

What you describe is more akin to what goes under the tradename
Philippine Mahogany, which is crankier than the worst wife that you
could ever imagine, twice as hairy, and not really a mahogany at all.

As per the analogy, they come from different places and have different
temperaments.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:20:04 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
wrote:

Actually what you have is African Mahogany and it is usually passed off as
Genuine Mahagony
It is a good wood but can be a bear to work with. You will also note it is
darker and can have some black streaks going through it.

Thanks to all who replied - I think George has the best
description of what I have. I did get a lot of tear-out while planing
but put it up to my technique. I didn't say the 'fuzzy' sections were
darker (black streaks?), but they are. The weird part is that now one
of my pieces has been around for a few months, those parts are still
darker *except* for small areas where they are turning very light -
even gray - as though they had slurped up the finish and were drying
out. The only remaining questions is - does African Mahogany have the
same kind of wormholes in it that I read about for the real stuff?
FWW's recent article on Finishing Mahogany showed worm holes just like
the ones in my suspect wood.
I bought this wood by mail from a dealer recommended by
several on the wreck. Not all the wood has this problem. The 8/4 HM I
bought locally has had no problems - but it cost me three times the
mail order price. Looks like I got half lucky with mail order.


=====
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
=====
{remove curly brackets for email}

Hey Charles,
If you got African I can buy that all day at about 3.50 per Bd Ft,
Whereas Honduras is about 5.50 and if it 8/4 It will cost more.

Mahogany is a lot like cherry in so much It will darken with age and it does
not take to long,
I use what is called a water white acrylic lacquer that has absolutely no
color to it when i open a 5 gallon can I can see the bottom of the can and
see whatever color the can actually is.
I have been doing work for a mens Clothing store for several years now and
it has been all Mahogany and Birdseye Maple with a Clear topcoat.
Everytime I bring them something new they ask me why I didn't stain it the
same color, It is not much but noticable and I generally tell them to wait a
while.

I have a hunch the extra */4 I have in the shop is going to end-up either in
a paint job or being as how it is 8/4 it will make for a nice workbench, Nah
to much work two saw horses and a sheet of ply work just fine.

Send Me a viable e-mail address and I'll send a few pics
Good Luck, George


"Charles Bragg (no, dammit, not the painter)"
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:20:04 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
wrote:

Actually what you have is African Mahogany and it is usually passed off
as
Genuine Mahagony
It is a good wood but can be a bear to work with. You will also note it
is
darker and can have some black streaks going through it.

Thanks to all who replied - I think George has the best
description of what I have. I did get a lot of tear-out while planing
but put it up to my technique. I didn't say the 'fuzzy' sections were
darker (black streaks?), but they are. The weird part is that now one
of my pieces has been around for a few months, those parts are still
darker *except* for small areas where they are turning very light -
even gray - as though they had slurped up the finish and were drying
out. The only remaining questions is - does African Mahogany have the
same kind of wormholes in it that I read about for the real stuff?
FWW's recent article on Finishing Mahogany showed worm holes just like
the ones in my suspect wood.
I bought this wood by mail from a dealer recommended by
several on the wreck. Not all the wood has this problem. The 8/4 HM I
bought locally has had no problems - but it cost me three times the
mail order price. Looks like I got half lucky with mail order.


=====
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
=====
{remove curly brackets for email}

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:00:27 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
wrote:

Phillipine Mahagony will not do what he described and African Mahagony is
notorious for just that.


I would have to disagree. I have worked with most of the woods that
are tradenamed as mahogany, including Red Lauan (Shorea negrosensis)
and White Lauan (Pentacme "various") which are often sold to the
unsuspecting as Honduran Mahogany (Swietenia "various").

These two, in particular, will do exactly as described, depending on
the cut.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Charles Bragg (no, dammit, not the painter)
schreef

The only remaining questions is - does African Mahogany have the
same kind of wormholes in it that I read about for the real stuff?
FWW's recent article on Finishing Mahogany showed worm holes just like
the ones in my suspect wood.

+ + +
What wormholes are these? Mahogany should not have any.
PvR

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:16:00 +0200, "P van Rijckevorsel"
wrote:
The only remaining questions is - does African Mahogany have the
same kind of wormholes in it that I read about for the real stuff?
FWW's recent article on Finishing Mahogany showed worm holes just like
the ones in my suspect wood.

+ + +
What wormholes are these? Mahogany should not have any.

Why not? But seriously, if FWW says it can (and shows
pictures) and I have them too, then.......


=====
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
=====
{remove curly brackets for email}

Worms, with the exception of the south american variety [about the size of
your finger and which I ma told the natives like to eat alive] for the most
part do not like Mahogany . As a matter of fact the discovery of Mahogany by
the west almost eliminated the use of walnut for that very reason, it's
resistance to woodworm infestations .

I have seen mahogany veneered pine absolutely riddled with wood worm on pine
side with just a few holes showing in the veneered side .

--
mike hide



"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message
...
Charles Bragg (no, dammit, not the painter)
schreef

The only remaining questions is - does African Mahogany have the
same kind of wormholes in it that I read about for the real stuff?
FWW's recent article on Finishing Mahogany showed worm holes just like
the ones in my suspect wood.

+ + +
What wormholes are these? Mahogany should not have any.
PvR

+ + +
What wormholes are these? Mahogany should not have any.

Charles Bragg (no, dammit, not the painter)
schreef
Why not? But seriously, if FWW says it can (and shows
pictures) and I have them too, then.......

+ + +
Lots of reasons why not.
I am afraid I don't read FWW so I did not see the pictures.
Lots of different kinds of wormholes. Big ones, small ones, straight ones,
crooked ones, in what pattern?

FWW focuses on woodworking, not on woods
When it comes to wood I am not taking their word for it.
PvR

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:57:35 +0200, "P van Rijckevorsel"
wrote:
Lots of reasons why not.
I am afraid I don't read FWW so I did not see the pictures.
Lots of different kinds of wormholes. Big ones, small ones, straight ones,
crooked ones, in what pattern?

Mine and theirs are about 1/4 inch across and occur (to my
eyes) singly without any pattern. I have a 1x12x60 board with four
holes.


FWW focuses on woodworking, not on woods
When it comes to wood I am not taking their word for it.

It was an article by Jeff Jewitt, "Finishing Mahogany" in the
August 2003 issue. There is a sidebar entitled "Filling the inevitable
worm holes." A quote: "In most extrawide mahogany boards, you'll often
find large worm holes near the edge."
I like the natural look so I don't fill them. Jeff uses - gasp
- Bondo.


=====
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
=====
{remove curly brackets for email}

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:03:22 GMT, "Mike Hide"
wrote:

Worms, with the exception of the south american variety [about the size of
your finger and which I ma told the natives like to eat alive] for the most
part do not like Mahogany . As a matter of fact the discovery of Mahogany by
the west almost eliminated the use of walnut for that very reason, it's
resistance to woodworm infestations .

Well now, you have steered the ID of this wood back to the
South American (S. macrophylla) kind. If it were African, I hear you
saying it would not be likely to have worm holes.


=====
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
=====
{remove curly brackets for email}

Charles Bragg (no, dammit, not the painter)
schreef
Mine and theirs are about 1/4 inch across and occur (to my
eyes) singly without any pattern. I have a 1x12x60 board with four
holes.

FWW focuses on woodworking, not on woods
When it comes to wood I am not taking their word for it.

It was an article by Jeff Jewitt, "Finishing Mahogany" in the
August 2003 issue. There is a sidebar entitled "Filling the inevitable
worm holes." A quote: "In most extrawide mahogany boards, you'll often
find large worm holes near the edge."

I like the natural look so I don't fill them. Jeff uses - gasp
- Bondo.

+ + +
OK, that sounds like something that may happen even in mahogany.
Have had no personal experience with these
PvR