Sun, Sep 14, 2003, 7:05pm (EDT-1) (Hoyt=A0Weathers)
asks:
snip Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to
this group? snip of bs

You mean you posted here without knowing that? Damn. There's
always that 10% that doesn't get the word.

JOAT
Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 15 Sep 2003. Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:03:42 -0500, Hoyt Weathers
wrote:

To Robin Lee:

I just looked on my front porch for the order package. It was just outside the door.
FedEx has a bad habit of leaving packages there with no notification to anyone in my
home. It is for certain that no person in my house signed for it. Who signed for the
package? I think FedEx falsified that matter. Since I now have the unopened package,
I will take it to FedEx and refuse delivery. It should then be returned to Lee Valley
for refund credit to my account.

Most shippers have a "Driver Release" policy. The shipper must
specify that a signature is required so this doesn't happen.

It's quite common in my 'hood.

Maybe you're going a bit overboard with this?

Barry

Mon, Sep 15, 2003, 2:52pm (EDT+4) (Leon)
says:
snip When I have this type of problem I Always consider what I could
have done wrong first and then find out what really happened. snip

I don't know that I have ever had this type of problem. I do order
stuff, usually something for one of my kids for one of their 4X4
projects (they have me call in the order, using my debit card, and pay
me - first - that's from experience LOL). At the time of the order, I
ask how long to get here. With the 4X4 stuff, 5-10 working days seems
about the norm. I tell the kid, and if it isn't here in however long
they said, I call back and check the status. Saves a lot of heartburn.

JOAT
Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 15 Sep 2003. Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

CW wrote:
Things happen. This may very well have been one problem out of thousands of
orders. Leon's approach would have been the thing to do.

The only thing I have found is that they want to charge obscene amounts,
unrelated to the size or value, to ship internationally. When I want
stuff, I ship it to my sister in FL, and she ships it to me. Still
cheaper than LV prices !

Steve

FWIW, I've never had a problem with Lee Valley and will continue to do
business with them. Based on what I've read here on the wreck, they are
extremely responsive to their customers, so I have no doubt that should
I ever have a problem, it will be resolved promptly.

I find it curious though... You post on the 14th that you have not
received the package and will refuse, yet Mr Lee notes the package was
signed for the morning of the 11th.

djb

--
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

Hoyt Weathers wrote:

Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived.

According to FedEx (see post from Rob Lee) the order was received
exactly one week after you made the telephone call. In a reply to
Leon, you go on about how you're telling the truth. Could you please
confirm that the FedEx report is mistaken? Otherwise, you should
apologize for lying and complaining about what was actually good
service (1 week delivery for a phone order).

Ken Muldrew

Yo, Hoyt.
Your original post says "two weeks ago". Actual order was made the 4th.
Not two weeks. The package was delivered to your location in one week.
In another post, you stated that Fed Ex had a habit of leaving packages in
that location, unsigned for. Why were you not on the lookout?
It sounds to me like the project was going kaplooey and the "urgency" of
receiving this order just fueled whatever frustration was going on.
Sounds to me like you got your panties in a knot and HAVE to be upset with
someone.....IMO you don't need to be upset with Lee Valley OR Fed Ex. They
did their jobs.
When I am waiting on an important delivery, I leave a note taped to the door
with instructions for the driver WAY in advance of expected delivery.
"leave on back porch, etc." And the I CHECK EVERY DAY....doh. It's really
not fair to downfault anyone when so many resources are at your
fingertips...tracking numbers, etc.
Perry
"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
You seem to have gotten in on this thread rather late Mr. Muldrew. It was
only this
morning that I *received* the package. This morning, I took the unopened
package to FedEx
Freight which is less than one mile from my home. That office arranged to
have FedEx
Ground pick up the package and deliver it to Lee Valley. Mr. Robin Lee has
been fully
informed of this transaction as it stands to this minute. There are other
pertinent
postings on this topic if you care to read them. The FedEx report is
indeed incorrect in
that no person signed for the delivery. Also, I did not tell a falsehood.

Ken Muldrew wrote:

Hoyt Weathers wrote:

Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying
to complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived.

According to FedEx (see post from Rob Lee) the order was received
exactly one week after you made the telephone call. In a reply to
Leon, you go on about how you're telling the truth. Could you please
confirm that the FedEx report is mistaken? Otherwise, you should
apologize for lying and complaining about what was actually good
service (1 week delivery for a phone order).

Ken Muldrew

Hoyt Weathers wrote:

The FedEx report is indeed incorrect in
that no person signed for the delivery.

That seems to be the case. Also, they claimed to have delivered it on
the 11th; I believe you dispute this as well.

Also, I did not tell a falsehood.

I reproduce below a sentence that is deliberately misleading:

Hoyt Weathers wrote:

Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone.

Here you imply that you placed the order two weeks ago. Instead, you
waited 4 days from the time that you needed the two items before
finally placing the order on the 4th (which was 10 days prior to your
complaint, not two weeks). Unless you specify, and agree to pay for,
rapid delivery, a 10 day waiting period is well within the acceptable
range for mail order service. I think your public complaint was
unjustified.

Ken Muldrew

The real bummer part about all this is not only will Rob lose a sale through
no fault of his own, but now he'll grant a full refund on the original
purchase, including the freight and he'll eat it with a smile on his face. I
s'pose sooner or later it'll transpire to higher costs for Rob resulting in
a higher retail price. At the end of the day Hoyt doesn't get a new "toy"
for the shop and feels compelled to take time and gas out of his budget to
"deliver" the package back to Fed Ex, Rob gets to demonstrate their attitude
for customer service and all of us will shake our heads at the whole thing
at the same time we're aware that it could have happened to any of us yet
knowing the "good guys" took another one.....

sigh.....

Rob

http://www.robswoodworking.com



"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
You seem to have gotten in on this thread rather late Mr. Muldrew. It was
only this
morning that I *received* the package. This morning, I took the unopened
package to FedEx
Freight which is less than one mile from my home. That office arranged to
have FedEx
Ground pick up the package and deliver it to Lee Valley. Mr. Robin Lee has
been fully
informed of this transaction as it stands to this minute. There are other
pertinent
postings on this topic if you care to read them. The FedEx report is
indeed incorrect in
that no person signed for the delivery. Also, I did not tell a falsehood.

snipped

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:19:29 GMT, "Upscale"
wrote:

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...

No. You get your share of the blame for not checking thoroughly before
popping
off.

Yeah, we know Charlie, you're perfect and you're willing to admit it.


What's with the attitude?

FWIW I think Charlie is right and Hoyt acted inappropriately.

Businesses depend on their good reputation and the goodwill of their
customers. To trash a company without foundation is as wrong as it is
to damage the reputation of any person. When done on a public forum
and, more specifically, a public forum devoted to the discussion of
the area of business that the company is in, the offence is even
greater.

As to the alleged perfection of Mr. Self: If I were to look back over
the many years that Charlie has participated in this group, I would
find him to be perfectly within his rights to tell you to go to hell.

Charlie has always taken the time to help out Wreckers of all levels
of competence and to do so with wit and style. He is knowledgeable
and shares his knowledge willingly.

Looking back over your contributions for the nine months that you've
been hanging around here, I wonder if you could say the same about
yourself.



Regards, Tom
Tom Watson - Woodworker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.com...
In article , "mttt"
wrote:


The thing that really irritated me, though, was that I was home at the
time.
The guy didn't even bother to ring the doorbell.

Ok - you got me there... That's pretty damned lazy. Or maybe the delivery
person is one helluva' Introvert and just can't bring him/herself to ring
the bell.

"Ken Muldrew" wrote in message
...
Hoyt Weathers wrote:

The FedEx report is indeed incorrect in
that no person signed for the delivery.

That seems to be the case. Also, they claimed to have delivered it on
the 11th; I believe you dispute this as well.


Ken, want me to find you a dead horse and you can beat on it for a
while?

Big deep lung full of cold crisp Pennsylvania air this morning Tom g!

Rob

snipped
, I would
find him to be perfectly within his rights to tell you to go to hell.

Charlie has always taken the time to help out Wreckers of all levels
of competence and to do so with wit and style. He is knowledgeable
and shares his knowledge willingly.

Looking back over your contributions for the nine months that you've
been hanging around here, I wonder if you could say the same about
yourself.



Regards, Tom
Tom Watson - Woodworker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:38:03 GMT, "Rob Stokes"
wrote:

Big deep lung full of cold crisp Pennsylvania air this morning Tom g!

OKH#4-swoosh.


Regards, Tom
Tom Watson - Woodworker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

A lot of people have taken shots at you for this post.
I'm not sure exactly what the problem is so I'm asking
for more info. Tell me if this is correct: You placed
a phone order and assumed (i.e., didn't ask) the order
would arrive at a certain date. Order didn't arrive and
you no longer want it. You blame Lee Valley for the
late delivery. This is where I'm unclear. What did Lee
Valley do wrong?

Dennis Vogel

"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

Yeah, but like most of us, you'll settle. If you don't believe that, look
straight down after you pass 60.

Charlie Self


Ah Charlie, you got your order of lookin at things mixed up... That is CRS
syndrome. If you recall, you are supposed to look at a pretty girl first
and then look straight down...;~)

Correct me if I'm wrong, Hoyt but YOU did write the following, did you not?



snip

" The order has never arrived. I no longer needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee
Valley in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley.

That method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to
me. Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then
the telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Woody"

so, to paraphrase you, they are "untrustworthy", "someone flubbed up
royally...", "that person needs some serious attitude adjustments..."

NOW you say that you never claimed Lee Valley did anything wrong!! and
that you never blamed Lee Valley for the late delivery. Have I suddenly
been struck by the inability to understand plain English? Seems to me
you laid the blame solely at the feet of Lee Valley for the "late" delivery.

Just accept your mistakes rather than try to weasel out of what you
originally said. Leave that to the politicians.

dave



Hoyt Weathers wrote:

Mr. Vogel, you are partly correct. I did place the order by telephone. I did assume
it would arrive in due course which I have learned to expect from previous shipments
to me from Lee Valley. Since the order did not arrive by the time I needed the two
items, I used other tools in my shop to complete the project. Ergo, the ordered items
were no longer needed. I never claimed Lee Valley did anything wrong. I did state
that I was extremely disappointed with Lee Valley. That is water over the dam, so to
speak. I never blamed Lee Valley for the late delivery. My original posting was what
I thought, at that time, to be wrong and stated the facts as I then thought them to
be. Just this morning did I find the shipment from Lee Valley on my front porch. At
most, I will go out of my front doors onto that front porch perhaps every other
month. Rob Lee and I have had several exchanges of e-mails. I feel in my heart that
Rob Lee and I are on the same wavelength in this matter.

Mr. Vogel, if I have not answered your questions, please reply in kind.

Hoyt Weathers

"Dennis " wrote:


A lot of people have taken shots at you for this post.
I'm not sure exactly what the problem is so I'm asking
for more info. Tell me if this is correct: You placed
a phone order and assumed (i.e., didn't ask) the order
would arrive at a certain date. Order didn't arrive and
you no longer want it. You blame Lee Valley for the
late delivery. This is where I'm unclear. What did Lee
Valley do wrong?

Dennis Vogel

"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...

Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to

complete on

schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order

method would be

the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer

needed the

items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the

project in order

to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and

have informed

Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other

communication

of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley

in this

situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee

Valley. That

method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.

Someone flubbed

up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the

telephone

order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,

that person

needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
m...

snip. Have I suddenly
been struck by the inability to understand plain English?

No, nothing sudden about it. You don't seem to have had that ability
since you started posting here.

In reply to the posting by Sam Krenov, I will reply to Mr. Muldrew. Mr. Muldrew, I do
not dispute the date FedEx records show to be the delivery date. It was found by me
only this morning, the 15th of September. I think the actual delivery was when I
picked up the package from the floor of my front porch. From a technical and legal
point of view, I never officially accepted delivery. I took it, unopened, to my local
FedEx Freight office this morning and they now have custody of it. I have told Rob
Lee this in much more detail than is stated here.

Hoyt Weathers

Sam Krenov wrote:

"Ken Muldrew" wrote in message
...
Hoyt Weathers wrote:

The FedEx report is indeed incorrect in
that no person signed for the delivery.

That seems to be the case. Also, they claimed to have delivered it on
the 11th; I believe you dispute this as well.

Ken, want me to find you a dead horse and you can beat on it for a
while?

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...

Yeah, but like most of us, you'll settle. If you don't believe that, look
straight down after you pass 60.

You mean it gets worse when I hit 60?

I have NO trouble understanding you.

Plonk

dave

Sam Krenov wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
m...


snip. Have I suddenly
been struck by the inability to understand plain English?


No, nothing sudden about it. You don't seem to have had that ability
since you started posting here.

I'm thinking somebody is needing an upping of their meds.

UA100, off to continue debunking the lumber car...

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:03:42 -0500, Hoyt Weathers
wrote:

To Robin Lee:
I just looked on my front porch for the order package. It was just outside the door.

I apologize to Lee Valley and to all on this board for the whoop la I caused over
this matter. The blame goes to FedEx alone.

I love apologies that don't apologise for anything.

"I'm sorry you got upset when I screwed your wife. But, dude, like,
you should work on your anger management skills."

M--

Scratch Ankle Wood wrote:



You mean it gets worse when I hit 60?


It's called a dickdoo. Your stomach sticks out further then your dick do.

(apologies to the sensitive groupies)

In article , Doug
Miller wrote:

And you're right, FedEx *does* falsify delivery signatures, at least some of
the time. I had an example recently; a package worth several hundred dollars
was left in the driveway. The tracking information shows that it was signed
for by "F. Rontdoor" !!

http://tinyurl.com/nepl

Gun collectors (I am one) deal with this all the time. Firearms and
ammunition are normally shipped "adult signature required", but the
only times I've ever actually encountered a delivery critter were when
I was at my computer desk 12 feet from the front door. I'd hear the
doorbell ring, get up, and barely see them before they reached the end
of the sidewalk. They're *fast*!.

You should hear the horror stories on the collector mailing lists:
valuable firearms delivered without signature, left outside in the
weather on the back deck, reported "stolen in transit" to the BATF,
only to be discovered as a rusty mess some weeks later. Or (worse),
propped up against the front door in full view of the street. I've
opened the front door for my kids' friends dropping over after school,
only to discover 1,400 rounds of 8mm rifle ammunition "hidden" under
the welcome mat (it's rather like hiding a bus under your living room
rug).

Like lots of people, we only use the front door for guests and pizza
delivery. But when I order something, I check it every single day,
while also tracking it online.

Kevin

Oh what the heck, I might as well get my shot in here too.

So either you have a veeeeery large front porch and the package was
lost for days and days, or... oh wait a minute, I see now that you
don't go out that door. So, you expect FedEx to "go over the hill and
thru the woods" and deliver to some special place from where you make
your egress at your house, sans instructions from you - either to Lee
Valley upon placement of order or by a note taped to door, or ??? You
think FedEx reads your mind, or that they deliver to special places at
everyone's house?

Then....

As you wait with baited breath for your urgent delivery, you don't
once think that it may be sitting on your FRONT porch. And, then you
let out a rant, bitching about LeeValley, which goes overboard on
customer service (try this same episode with another vendor). Here's
an idea - back up and say, "geeze, I'm sorry, I f&^^k'd up and didn't
THINK!

(Now,(for example) if you have some interesting set up where you have
an alley behind your house and everyone routinely makes deliveries
back there, I take back a _part_ of my rant at you)

Renata

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:42:56 -0500, Hoyt Weathers
wrote:

Mr. Vogel, you are partly correct. I did place the order by telephone. I did assume
it would arrive in due course which I have learned to expect from previous shipments
to me from Lee Valley. Since the order did not arrive by the time I needed the two
items, I used other tools in my shop to complete the project. Ergo, the ordered items
were no longer needed. I never claimed Lee Valley did anything wrong. I did state
that I was extremely disappointed with Lee Valley. That is water over the dam, so to
speak. I never blamed Lee Valley for the late delivery. My original posting was what
I thought, at that time, to be wrong and stated the facts as I then thought them to
be. Just this morning did I find the shipment from Lee Valley on my front porch. At
most, I will go out of my front doors onto that front porch perhaps every other
month. Rob Lee and I have had several exchanges of e-mails. I feel in my heart that
Rob Lee and I are on the same wavelength in this matter.

Mr. Vogel, if I have not answered your questions, please reply in kind.

Hoyt Weathers

"Dennis " wrote:

A lot of people have taken shots at you for this post.
I'm not sure exactly what the problem is so I'm asking
for more info. Tell me if this is correct: You placed
a phone order and assumed (i.e., didn't ask) the order
would arrive at a certain date. Order didn't arrive and
you no longer want it. You blame Lee Valley for the
late delivery. This is where I'm unclear. What did Lee
Valley do wrong?

Dennis Vogel

"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
In reply to the posting by Sam Krenov, I will reply to Mr. Muldrew. Mr.
Muldrew, I do
not dispute the date FedEx records show to be the delivery date. It was
found by me
only this morning, the 15th of September. I think the actual delivery was
when I
picked up the package from the floor of my front porch.

I was thinking that maybe you just needed a cool down period to regain
composure and reasonable thinking.. but Geeeesss I would expect that
explanation of delivery time from my 10 year old son but now that he is 16
even he knows that that crap for an excuse does not fly.

I suspect Hoyt, that you find it hard to accept responsibility.


From a technical and legal
point of view, I never officially accepted delivery. I took it, unopened,
to my local
FedEx Freight office this morning and they now have custody of it.

Yeah, use that analogy to explain to the judge why you did not show up for a
jury summons. It is your responsibility to look out for yourself and be
mature enough to take the initiative to do so.

Leon writes:

Yeah, but like most of us, you'll settle. If you don't believe that, look
straight down after you pass 60.

Charlie Self


Ah Charlie, you got your order of lookin at things mixed up... That is CRS
syndrome. If you recall, you are supposed to look at a pretty girl first
and then look straight down...;~)

Wimmen got zip to do with it. Unless I lean forward, I can't even see my damned
toes!

Charlie Self

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful."
Samuel Johnson

"Charlie Self" wrote in message


Ah Charlie, you got your order of lookin at things mixed up... That is
CRS
syndrome. If you recall, you are supposed to look at a pretty girl first
and then look straight down...;~)

Wimmen got zip to do with it. Unless I lean forward, I can't even see my
damned
toes!


OOOoooohhhhh... ;~)
Not quite, but pushing 50, I now understand... I suspect that I will better
understand as the years go by. I can still see my toes but it is getting
harder to touch them...

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

This has been the kind of weather day Ma Nature intended when she cranked
things up millenia ago. Plenty of good, clear air, even in WV!


Unfortunately WV may be getting the good, clean air rammed down its throat
later this week if that storm comes near...Good Luck with that..

Kevin Craig wrote:

snipped

You should hear the horror stories on the collector mailing lists:
valuable firearms delivered without signature, left outside in the
weather on the back deck, reported "stolen in transit" to the BATF,
only to be discovered as a rusty mess some weeks later. Or (worse),
propped up against the front door in full view of the street. I've
opened the front door for my kids' friends dropping over after school,
only to discover 1,400 rounds of 8mm rifle ammunition "hidden" under
the welcome mat (it's rather like hiding a bus under your living room
rug).

I guess my delivery guy is more conscientious than yours. I had an order for
approx. $2,000 worth of computer parts delivered while it was raining. He didn't
want to leave it on the front porch or exposed to the rain. Several days later,
after "not receiving" the order, I called and was informed it had been delivered
to the back deck. After not being able to find the package, I opened the lid on
my gas grill. There was the package. I'm glad I wasn't in the mood for a steak
between the time the package was delivered and me finding it.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Hell, I'LL take the blame if this thread will die!

(I know...I'm contributing to it's longevity. Don't get nitpicky...)

dave

Unisaw A100 wrote:

The blame goes to FedEx alone.










Thank God we have someone to blame.

In article , Bay Area Dave wrote:
Hell, I'LL take the blame if this thread will die!

Good enough -- we all agree it's all your fault.

My last post on the subject. ;-)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Renata notes:


(Now,(for example) if you have some interesting set up where you have
an alley behind your house and everyone routinely makes deliveries
back there, I take back a _part_ of my rant at you)

Ah, hell. I've got an alley alongside my house, but it's narrow (funny thing
about alleys), and none of the delivery people are interested in going there
and into my tiny, fenced back yard. So it's front porch for deliveries 99% of
the time, regardless of requests. So, I look.

Probably as well they don't go into the alley: the kids down the other end blow
through here on and in a wide variety of clapped out vehicles, blast across the
street and into the extension of the alley on that side. If they ever got
whacked by a delivery truck, it would bring on a real spate of "child on
bicycle is hit by vehicle" as we had a week or so ago. Turned out a 17 year old
ignored a stop sign and ran into the side of a passing car, so the TV and
newspaper dolts tried to make it the driver's fault. I don't think many of the
kids on our alley are 17 yet, though. Some may make it.

Charlie Self

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful."
Samuel Johnson

Leon notes:


Wimmen got zip to do with it. Unless I lean forward, I can't even see my
damned
toes!


OOOoooohhhhh... ;~)
Not quite, but pushing 50, I now understand... I suspect that I will better
understand as the years go by. I can still see my toes but it is getting
harder to touch them...

Oh, I can touch mine. I just squat down and reach around. Then my wife helps me
up.

I never really gained much weight until I quit smoking something like 15 years
ago. Whoo, did I make up for last years then.

Charlie Self

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful."
Samuel Johnson

The advantages of living in a small village. The UPS and FedEx drivers
flag me down if I'm passing them on the road and they have a package.
If not they just put it in the house (never need to lock the doors) and
when a package shows up at the Post Office they call to let me know it's
there.

And...I'm only a day away from Lee Valley!!!!!

Phil

Trent© wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:54:18 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:


In article , "mttt" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
igy.com...

In article , wrote:

To Robin Lee:


And you're right, FedEx *does* falsify delivery signatures, at least some

of

the time. I had an example recently; a package worth several hundred

dollars

was left in the driveway. The tracking information shows that it was

signed

for by "F. Rontdoor" !!

Yeah - but I'm admittedly very hypocritical on this. When I'm not home and
want the package, I want them to just leave it. My neighborhood is good,
nothing every gets ripped off.

So I'm 80% OK with "F.Rontdoor" signing for me...


I hope they don't do this with "signature required" shipments.

The thing that really irritated me, though, was that I was home at the time.
The guy didn't even bother to ring the doorbell.


The world is changing...get used to it!

You got the PACKAGE, didn't ya? Maybe he didn't have time to talk
about the wife and kids.

My mail gets delivered every day...and sometimes includes important
stuff. The mailperson never rings the doorbell.

USPS delivers by putting the package on the porch near the mail box.
They also never ring the bell.

FedEx just drops the package off...unless the sender requires a
signature.

Same with UPS. But the UPS driver always toots his horn as he drives
up to my place. He knows that if I'm in, I'll come out and sign for
him.

The purpose of package delivery is package delivery. If its
workin'...its workin'.


Hope ya'll have a nice week...

Trent


Proud member of the Roy Rogers fan club!

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
Oh, I can touch mine. I just squat down and reach around. Then my wife
helps me
up.


ROTFLMAO...


I never really gained much weight until I quit smoking something like 15
years
ago. Whoo, did I make up for last years then.


Untill I was age 23 + 8 months...give or take a week I absolutely never
weighed more than 132 lbs. I'm 6' tall and I was shall we say SKINNY, but
quite strong in my upper body. I worked in a tire store in the early 70's
doing a lot of manual labor. Then I took a nice job and the manual labor
cut back dramatically. Before I was 24 I weighed 165 lbs.. and since
then,... well you know.. ;~)

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

You should know that you have to check outside your
door for packages in strange places whenever you are
expecting a package to be left, Hoyt.

Gotta agree with this one. I know when I order stuff
from LV I look every day. Hell, two or three times a
day. I get antsy and can't wait for my goodies to arrive.
To me it seems strange to not look and pace and pace
and look waiting for my toys to arrive. Oh well. I guess
it's just me. ;-)

Dennis Vogel

Wow. Coulda fooled me. I read nothing but contempt
for Lee Valley's phone order system, order handling
and shipment notification. Glad you cleared it up, though.

Dennis Vogel

"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Mr. Vogel, you are partly correct. I did place the order by telephone. I
did assume
it would arrive in due course which I have learned to expect from previous
shipments
to me from Lee Valley. Since the order did not arrive by the time I needed
the two
items, I used other tools in my shop to complete the project. Ergo, the
ordered items
were no longer needed. I never claimed Lee Valley did anything wrong. I
did state
that I was extremely disappointed with Lee Valley. That is water over the
dam, so to
speak. I never blamed Lee Valley for the late delivery. My original
posting was what
I thought, at that time, to be wrong and stated the facts as I then
thought them to
be. Just this morning did I find the shipment from Lee Valley on my front
porch. At
most, I will go out of my front doors onto that front porch perhaps every
other
month. Rob Lee and I have had several exchanges of e-mails. I feel in my
heart that
Rob Lee and I are on the same wavelength in this matter.

Mr. Vogel, if I have not answered your questions, please reply in kind.

Hoyt Weathers

"Dennis " wrote:

A lot of people have taken shots at you for this post.
I'm not sure exactly what the problem is so I'm asking
for more info. Tell me if this is correct: You placed
a phone order and assumed (i.e., didn't ask) the order
would arrive at a certain date. Order didn't arrive and
you no longer want it. You blame Lee Valley for the
late delivery. This is where I'm unclear. What did Lee
Valley do wrong?

Dennis Vogel

"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying
to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive
and
have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee
Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then
the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very
least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Michael Baglio wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:03:42 -0500, Hoyt Weathers
wrote:
Get a post office box. You will not have any doubts about where your
package is! After UPS and FEDEX both hung medicine packages on my
rural mail box that is a quarter mile from house, I gave up. I guess
the red flag signed for them. I wonder how much the theives got for a
three months supply of codeine pain pills. Bill