Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me. Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least, that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Woody

Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that is
disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
I don't think you will get much sympathy here.

In all fairness.... the order could have been misdirected after it left Lee
Valley, by whatever carrier. They may have done everything
right...sometimes stuff just happens. Did you call when you didn't get the
order in a reasonable time? Or did you wait and fume and get madder'n
madder? Maybe if you would have called and "hey, my order's not here", they
could have had the option to jet a duplicate out to you. Was this your
first order with them?
Invoices DO get lost. I personally try to not box myself in a corner so
that a delay in delivery won't upset the karma of everything. I always call
my customer and explain that there may be a problem, with delivery of
supplies or tools and they are always understanding.
I have always had excellent service from Lee Valley..
Perry
bentcajungirl
"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Woody

I would have to agree with Leon, I have placed orders over the phone, over
the web and shopped in person and never had a problem

--
David
1964 Karmann Ghia coupe
1998 Chev K1500
2000 Subaru Legacy GT
"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Woody

I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply told the truth
of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley because I needed my project
completed. Let the dust settle where it will. I will not retract one word of what I
said because it is true.

Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this group?

You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking for
sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a specific
order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had absolutely no
reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take a flying
leap!

Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from the far
left bleachers.

Hoyt Weathers

Leon wrote:

Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that is
disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
I don't think you will get much sympathy here.

snip
Hoyt Weathers wrote:
Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this group?
You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking for
sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a specific
order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more.
Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from the far left bleachers.
Leon wrote:
Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that is
disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
I don't think you will get much sympathy here.

Hey Leon any more room on the bleachers? I suspect that Perry and I
need a seat too. I get tracking numbers, and I've never had anything
but great service from LV.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net

"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived.

Have you called to confirm the order? There could be 100's of reasons why
you never received, none of them Lee Valley's fault! Until you confirm, I
would zip my lip!
Greg

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:30:23 GMT, wrote:

Hey Leon any more room on the bleachers? I suspect that Perry and I
need a seat too. I get tracking numbers, and I've never had anything
but great service from LV.

FWIW -- OP's tone was bit harsh for me as a general matter. And as for the
tone relative to LV, I have only a couple of experiences (both good) with
Lee Valley. Yet, consider the many posts here -- and I like this -- that
simply say things like, "I used finish X and it was good/bad", or "I tried
returning something to HF and here is what happened that ****ed me off."
Those are SOP here. I also noticed (I think) that OP did not say that he
would never buy again from LV, just that he would never order again by
phone. Obviously, YMMV -- and re LV obviously it has -- but I think OP had
a legit point to make, w/ his own style, and he did. Again, FWIW.

And, BTW, I get royally ****ed at a number of companies along the way, but
I never say "never again". If they have what I need, all things considered
-- even if I feel that they ripped me off the last time -- then I still
shop there if it suits my fancy. I just proceed a bit wiser (I hope) from
the past bad experiences. OTOH, I warn all my friends and if I can find
what I need elsewhere, then that is where I look first -- elsewhere. No
nose cutting and face spiting here.

as a matter of fact, Hoyt you won't find anyone more reasonable on the
Wreck than Leon. I suggest you take your bad attitude somewhere else,
as it isn't going to fly too far here. I can't comment on the merits of
Lee Valley as I haven't purchased from them yet, but I've read nothing
but good things about them. I wonder if your communication skills are
up to par?

dave

Hoyt Weathers wrote:

I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply told the truth
of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley because I needed my project
completed. Let the dust settle where it will. I will not retract one word of what I
said because it is true.

Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this group?

You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking for
sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a specific
order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had absolutely no
reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take a flying
leap!

Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from the far
left bleachers.

Hoyt Weathers

Leon wrote:


Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that is
disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
I don't think you will get much sympathy here.

It you _really_ want the "TRUTH", especially of what others see when you
decide to publicly play victim and whine, simply count the number of "i"s in
your original post.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/13/03


"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply told
the truth
of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley because I needed my
project
completed. Let the dust settle where it will. I will not retract one word
of what I
said because it is true.

Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this
group?

You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking
for
sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a
specific
order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had
absolutely no
reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take
a flying
leap!

Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from
the far
left bleachers.

Hoyt Weathers

Leon wrote:

Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that
is
disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
I don't think you will get much sympathy here.

Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order method
would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer needed
the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the project
in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and have
informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee Valley.
That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me. Someone
flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Assuming that you're not just trolling, I have to ask: did you ever
try calling them to check on the status of your order? If they did
indeed screw up (they're only human, after all) they would have had a
chance to fix up what was wrong and chances are they would have done
so.

Before I posted such a sweeping criticism of any company, I would at
least take that simple step.


On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:27:08 -0500, Hoyt Weathers
wrote:

Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me. Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least, that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Woody

-- jc
Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net

Im sure Lee Valley will really miss you...........

--
Knowledge speaks, wisdom listen.....
Jimi Hendrix
"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Woody

I love Lee Valley! They have always done me right. Great service; only
one that I know of shipping faster is Garrett-Wade.


On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:27:08 -0500, Hoyt Weathers
wrote:

Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me. Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least, that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Woody

"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...

Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this
group?

You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking
for
sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a
specific
order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had
absolutely no
reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take
a flying
leap!

I took your original statement as is, that Lee Valley Tools accidentally
screwed up an order. It's unfortunate, but it happens. However, it didn't
take very long for you to immerse yourself into an attacking stance when
someone questioned what you had to say. Already, you appear to be obsessing
over this which takes the light off of Lee Valley and focuses it on you.
Next time, try shooting yourself in the foot, it's easier and faster.

In article ,
Hoyt Weathers wrote:

I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply
told the truth of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley
because I needed my project completed. Let the dust settle where it
will. I will not retract one word of what I said because it is true.

Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this
group?

You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was
looking for sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the
particulars of a specific order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less
and nothing more. You had absolutely no reason to challenge my
posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take a flying leap!

Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static
from the far left bleachers.

I sure hope you have a strong crash helmet and good insurance. You're
going to need both when you fall off your high horse and that chip on
your shoulder hits someone nearby.

Nobody doubts your statement that you placed an order and have not
received it. What people have been trying to tell you is (1) none of us,
not even Lee Valley, is perfect and (2) if you had talked to the
management at Lee Valley as soon as possible, you would now be praising
Lee Valley instead of complaining. By the way, your assumption that on a
telephone order, Lee Valley would use the fastest possible shipping
method was a bad assumption. Most businesses have a regular shipping
method that is used unless the customer specifies otherwise. It was YOUR
responsibility to inquire about shipping when you placed your order.

However, the most important message that people are trying to get
through what seems to be an extraordinarily thick skull is that of ALL
the business entreprises that do mail orders, Lee Valley is near or at
the top of custormer service.

For example, a year or so ago, they had one of their house tools
redesigned because of a problem in the original design. Without any
obligation whatsoever, they shipped a replacement tool to EVERY buyer of
the original design for whom the had an address.

Just last week, someone in this group mentioned that they received a
"surprise" cheque in the mail from Lee Valley to refund them the
difference between that they had paid for a recent order and the new,
lower price that had just come into effect for that item. I know a few
places that do that IF you are aware of the change and ask for an
adjustment but I don't know of any others that send out cheques in such
cases.

By the way, since Lee Valley (and most other dealers) now process Web
orders just as quickly as phone orders (and since I don't have
exaggerated worries about placing an order on-line with a credit card),
I NEVER make phone orders anymore unless I need some special service or
information. With the web order, I get quick confirmation and a tracking
number.

Robin Lee, the President and General Manager of Lee Valley is the kind
of man who, in an emergency, would get in his personal car and hand
deliver you a tool if for some reason his people had screwed up your
order and you were nearby. Otherwise, if you had contacted him at the
earliest moment, he would have rushed your tool to you, probably at HIS
expense.

There are lots of merchants who deserve to be trashed and publicly
villified. Lee Valley is not one of them. That could change, of course,
but is not likely. People of real, proven integrity usually can be
counted on.

If as you say you plan never to order from them again, it is YOUR loss.
By the way, in other aspects of your life, are you the kind of person
who dump on other people whom you think have done you wrong without even
giving them the chance to defend themselves or to make amends? It is a
serious character flaw called "backbiting" (saying mean or malicious
things about someone who is not present).

If there ever is a next time (with Lee Valley or another supplier),
inform the supplier FIRST and then come tell us what you think about the
supplier. As a group, we're not much impressed with idle, gratuitous bad
mouthing of others.

--
Regards,

Benoit Evans

"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.


This is sort of contradictory. You say it was screwed up and you told them
you are going to refuse the order. That means you have been in contact with
them about the order. So, was it shipped? If so, when? By what carrier?



In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Possible. What did they tell you when you called to complain? Surely you
did inquire about the particular order and they either told you they had it,
when it shipped, and how, OR, they did screw up and lose your order. Come
on now, tell us what they said. Was your credit card charged?

As for attitude adjustment, that is BS. Attitude has nothing to do with a
piece of paper falling behind the desk either in the order department or the
shipping department. I doubt very much that the order take decided to ****
can your order just for laughs.

Are you blaming LV for the delay when it has been sitting at the post office
for a week? Or the UPS guy could not find your house?

I have no doubt that you placed an order. I have no doubt that you did not
receive it. BUT, you also said you told them you were going to refuse it.
That means you are not telling the whole story. What did they say when you
called? You sure leave a lot of details out here for the jury to come to a
verdict.

Sorry Hoyt, but while you may be po'd at LV, the story is not complete. Not
one person reading this is going to change the way they do business on
account of it as our own experiences are so good. I've yet to find a
company that is as personable, honest, and offers such a superb guarantee of
satisfaction. They even refund shipping cost both ways. Does Home Depot
give you gas money when you make a return?

We want to know "the rest of the story".
Ed

I have been placing orders with Lee Valley by phone, by web and never had a
problem. They have been great. They even replace one of the item I order by
mistake ,(when I was at fault)
Lee Valley is always my top choice., in woodworking supply.

"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Woody

Hoyt,

A lot of people have taken you to task because you posted something against
LV. Personally, I think it's a good thing. No-one should be made to feel
intimidated to post their experiences, good or bad. Most of us who've dealt
with LV know this is likely to be an aberration and fixed fairly quickly,
the company is simply the best out there. Being the best, it doesn't
necessarily follow that they're perfect; as I am sure Robin Lee would agree.

A hallmark of a great company is not in never making a mistake, it lies in
how it handles the situation after the inevitable mistakes are made. LV are
a great company, give them a little time.

cheers,

Greg

PS I have ordered some items from here in Australia and received them in
good time and condition, better, in fact, than some local companies manage.

Things happen. This may very well have been one problem out of thousands of
orders. Leon's approach would have been the thing to do.
"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply told
the truth
of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley because I needed my
project
completed. Let the dust settle where it will. I will not retract one word
of what I
said because it is true.

Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this
group?

You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking
for
sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a
specific
order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had
absolutely no
reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take
a flying
leap!

Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from
the far
left bleachers.

Hoyt Weathers

Leon wrote:

Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that
is
disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
I don't think you will get much sympathy here.

Hoyt,

I'm quite willing to note you bad experience along with the many positive
experiences posted regarding Lee Valley. However, my perception of your
attitude, particularly in your response to Leon helps me assign a relevant
weighting factor to your experience.

You seem quite defensive; I did not notice anyone asking for a retraction.

Leon's post made no comment regarding the acceptability of your post, nor
did I think he was challenging your post. Just as you were informing the
group of your particular problem with Lee Valley, Leon was putting your
problem in context of the many positive posts about Lee Valley. His comment
about you being the first person that he has heard of with such a problem
could easily be a statement of fact and does not appear (to me) to be a
challenge to your post. Although you do not acknowledge Leon's comments as
useful, I think Leon did add two useful points to your post: (1) a greater
context of all Lee Valley experiences posted and (2) tips on how someone
could help themselves from experiencing the same problem you did.

As far as you looking for sympathy, I think it is reasonable for someone to
have reached that conclusion based on your original post. However, Leon's
comment about sympathy can also be taken as a simple statement of his
opinion and does not directly suggest that you were looking for sympathy.
In this context you could be accused of making a WIDE and faulty jump when
you suggested that Leon suggested you were looking for sympathy. :-)

In closing, I would suggest that you re-read the posts by Leon and yourself
and ask yourself how your posts came across and whether that it how you
meant for them to come across. I think that the last line of your original
post could apply equally well to you: "At the very least, that person needs
some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done."

Best Regards,
BadgerDog

P.S. Are you the Hoyt Weathers that was an engineer for NASA?




"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply told
the truth
of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley because I needed my
project
completed. Let the dust settle where it will. I will not retract one word
of what I
said because it is true.

Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this
group?

You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking
for
sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a
specific
order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had
absolutely no
reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take
a flying
leap!

Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from
the far
left bleachers.

Hoyt Weathers

Leon wrote:

Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that
is
disappointed in any way with Lee Valley...
Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and
gotten a tracking number, but that is just me.
I don't think you will get much sympathy here.

Hoyt -

Sorry you had a problem with your order...I've located it on our system, and
it shows:

Order placed Sept 4th
Order shipped Sept 5th
Order delivered Sept 11th - "signed for at front door 10:38AM" according to
FedEx

Normally, when an order is placed by phone, we give the shipping information
(when we will ship, and about how long it will take) - there is not usually
any further contact than that...

Certainly, we'll take the parcel back, and refund your money, including
original shipping, and return postage.


Sincerely -

Rob Lee
President
Lee Valley Tools Ltd.



"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Woody

To Robin Lee:

I just looked on my front porch for the order package. It was just outside the door.
FedEx has a bad habit of leaving packages there with no notification to anyone in my
home. It is for certain that no person in my house signed for it. Who signed for the
package? I think FedEx falsified that matter. Since I now have the unopened package,
I will take it to FedEx and refuse delivery. It should then be returned to Lee Valley
for refund credit to my account.

I apologize to Lee Valley and to all on this board for the whoop la I caused over
this matter. The blame goes to FedEx alone.

Sincerely,
Hoyt Weathers


Robin Lee wrote:

Hoyt -

Sorry you had a problem with your order...I've located it on our system, and
it shows:

Order placed Sept 4th
Order shipped Sept 5th
Order delivered Sept 11th - "signed for at front door 10:38AM" according to
FedEx

Normally, when an order is placed by phone, we give the shipping information
(when we will ship, and about how long it will take) - there is not usually
any further contact than that...

Certainly, we'll take the parcel back, and refund your money, including
original shipping, and return postage.

Sincerely -

Rob Lee
President
Lee Valley Tools Ltd.

"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and
have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Woody

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:21:50 GMT, "Groggy"
pixelated:

Hoyt,

A lot of people have taken you to task because you posted something against
LV. Personally, I think it's a good thing.

It's a good thing that they took him to task or it's a good thing that
he posted his gripe? 6 demerits and a "Bailiff..." for lack of
clarity, sir.

See how grammar counts, even here on the lowly Wreck, boys and girls?


-
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.
---
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...

No. You get your share of the blame for not checking thoroughly before
popping
off.

Yeah, we know Charlie, you're perfect and you're willing to admit it.

Upscale responds:


It's takes a big person to apologize publicly this way. I think all should
consider the matter closed at this point.


I would, except that he apologized and then said it was all FedEx's fault.

Sheest.

Charlie Self

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful."
Samuel Johnson

In article , wrote:
To Robin Lee:

I just looked on my front porch for the order package. It was just outside the
door. FedEx has a bad habit of leaving packages there with no notification to anyone
in my home. It is for certain that no person in my house signed for it. Who signed
for the package? I think FedEx falsified that matter. Since I now have the unopened
package, I will take it to FedEx and refuse delivery. It should then be returned to Lee
Valley for refund credit to my account.

I apologize to Lee Valley and to all on this board for the whoop la I caused
over this matter. The blame goes to FedEx alone.

Hoyt -- good to see your apology. Many folks aren't big enough to do that.

And you're right, FedEx *does* falsify delivery signatures, at least some of
the time. I had an example recently; a package worth several hundred dollars
was left in the driveway. The tracking information shows that it was signed
for by "F. Rontdoor" !!

http://tinyurl.com/nepl

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Hoyt:

If as you say FedEx has a "habit" of leaving packages outside of your door,
it seems that you should develop the habit of checking there before leveling
a complaint as you have here. My 2 cents.

Paul


"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
To Robin Lee:

I just looked on my front porch for the order package. It was just outside
the door.
FedEx has a bad habit of leaving packages there with no notification to
anyone in my
home. It is for certain that no person in my house signed for it. Who
signed for the
package? I think FedEx falsified that matter. Since I now have the
unopened package,
I will take it to FedEx and refuse delivery. It should then be returned to
Lee Valley
for refund credit to my account.

I apologize to Lee Valley and to all on this board for the whoop la I
caused over
this matter. The blame goes to FedEx alone.

Sincerely,
Hoyt Weathers


Robin Lee wrote:

Hoyt -

Sorry you had a problem with your order...I've located it on our system,
and
it shows:

Order placed Sept 4th
Order shipped Sept 5th
Order delivered Sept 11th - "signed for at front door 10:38AM" according
to
FedEx

Normally, when an order is placed by phone, we give the shipping
information
(when we will ship, and about how long it will take) - there is not
usually
any further contact than that...

Certainly, we'll take the parcel back, and refund your money, including
original shipping, and return postage.

Sincerely -

Rob Lee
President
Lee Valley Tools Ltd.

"Hoyt Weathers" wrote in message
...
Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying
to
complete on
schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order
method would be
the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer
needed the
items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the
project in order
to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive
and
have informed
Lee Valley of my decision to do so.

I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other
communication
of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee
Valley
in this
situation and have told them so.

In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee
Valley. That
method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me.
Someone flubbed
up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then
the
telephone
order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very
least,
that person
needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.

Woody

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Upscale responds:
It's takes a big person to apologize publicly this way. I think all
should
consider the matter closed at this point.

I would, except that he apologized and then said it was all FedEx's fault.

As I said Charlie. You're perfect. It's categorically *impossible* for you
to make a mistake like that or of any type. Must be nice (and damned boring)
to be you, being perfect *all* the time. Can I come and worship at your feet
and learn how to be bored like you too? Please? Pretty please?

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:21:50 GMT, "Groggy"
pixelated:

Hoyt,

A lot of people have taken you to task because you posted something
against
LV. Personally, I think it's a good thing.

It's a good thing that they took him to task or it's a good thing that
he posted his gripe? 6 demerits and a "Bailiff..." for lack of
clarity, sir.

See how grammar counts, even here on the lowly Wreck, boys and girls?


Did you read the rest of the message? It's quite clear if you continue
reading.

See how common sense counts, even here on the lowly Wreck, boys and
girls?

Well good for you to acknowledge what really happened here Hoyt. I
suspected that we would never hear from you again after your first post.
BUT, since you were totally aware that FedEX has a bad habit of leaving
packages just outside your door with no notification to anyone, whose fault
was it that some one did not check to see if this had happened again? When
I have this type of problem I Always consider what I could have done wrong
first and then find out what really happened.

Anyway, perhaps your future posts will be better received and enjoyed by the
group.

Hoyt Weathers wrote:
I just looked on my front porch for the order package. It was just outside the door.
FedEx has a bad habit of leaving packages there with no notification to anyone in my
home.

I get stuff from FedEx and UPS all the time like that. I consider it
a good thing that they leave it because it saves me the hassle of
having to go to their depot to pick it up. Just tell the shipper to
request "signature required" service and they won't leave stuff
unattended anymore.

The blame goes to FedEx alone.

You're still looking for somebody to blame. Get a life.

Upscale blathers:


I would, except that he apologized and then said it was all FedEx's fault.

As I said Charlie. You're perfect. It's categorically *impossible* for you
to make a mistake like that or of any type. Must be nice (and damned boring)
to be you, being perfect *all* the time. Can I come and worship at your feet
and learn how to be bored like you too? Please? Pretty please?

I don't recall stating a thing about either perfection or being bored, two
categories I've never even aspired to.

But, then, I don't use a handle like "Upscale" to hide my real name while
attempting, and failing, sarcasm.


Charlie Self

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful."
Samuel Johnson

Leon responds:

Well good for you to acknowledge what really happened here Hoyt. I
suspected that we would never hear from you again after your first post.
BUT, since you were totally aware that FedEX has a bad habit of leaving
packages just outside your door with no notification to anyone, whose fault
was it that some one did not check to see if this had happened again? When
I have this type of problem I Always consider what I could have done wrong
first and then find out what really happened.


Watch your butt, Leon. Ol' Upscale is going to let you know you are perfectly
bored.

Charlie Self

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful."
Samuel Johnson

Charlie Self wrote:



Watch your butt, Leon. Ol' Upscale is going to let you know you are
perfectly bored.

Charlie Self


I drilled a hole once that I thought was perfectly bored. Now all I want
is the perfect board.

In article , "mttt" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
y.com...
In article , wrote:
To Robin Lee:

And you're right, FedEx *does* falsify delivery signatures, at least some
of
the time. I had an example recently; a package worth several hundred
dollars
was left in the driveway. The tracking information shows that it was
signed
for by "F. Rontdoor" !!

Yeah - but I'm admittedly very hypocritical on this. When I'm not home and
want the package, I want them to just leave it. My neighborhood is good,
nothing every gets ripped off.

So I'm 80% OK with "F.Rontdoor" signing for me...

I hope they don't do this with "signature required" shipments.

The thing that really irritated me, though, was that I was home at the time.
The guy didn't even bother to ring the doorbell.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

We live a short half block from a middle school, formerly Jr High, and
get prescription meds via USPS left on the doorstep with NO ringing of
the doorbell. USPS doesn't want to initiate a standing order to ring
the doorbell that is all of 15" from mail slot. I've thanked those
that have the initiative to do this out of respect (or whatever)
trying to encourage the courtesy practice. UPS packages have been
left behind a plant near the door or under the mat but USPS stuff is
merely dropped ON the mat.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:15:21 GMT, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I learned that particular lesson the hard way, too. I
called UPS and they said the box had been left on my back
porch 2 days before. After scrounging around for 5 minutes,
I found a small box hidden between the 2 trash cans. I now
look on all porches before calling the delivery people or
source company and I blush less because of it.

"Leon" wrote in message
gy.com...
Well good for you to acknowledge what really happened here Hoyt. I
suspected that we would never hear from you again after your first post.
BUT, since you were totally aware that FedEX has a bad habit of leaving
packages just outside your door with no notification to anyone, whose
fault
was it that some one did not check to see if this had happened again?
When
I have this type of problem I Always consider what I could have done wrong
first and then find out what really happened.

This is an easy problem to solve. FedEx had a database for each delivery
point they have used. In my case, the driver can look at his board and see
where the package is to be left if no one is home. They have not missed yet
since this started about a year ago. Call them or tell the drive next time
you get a delivery. Then all you have to do is check that spot every day if
you are expecting a delivery.
Ed

On 15 Sep 2003 14:11:25 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Do not ever depend on a delivery company to do exactly as you expect:

I've ordered a lot of things from tool companies, including Lee
Valley. I very much doubt if I'm the only one who has had at least
four times as much trouble from the shipper as I've ever had from the
supplier.


OTOH - I'm getting a bit sick of Axminster's hit-rate for mis-picking
from the warehouse.

Andy Dingley notes:

Do not ever depend on a delivery company to do exactly as you expect:

I've ordered a lot of things from tool companies, including Lee
Valley. I very much doubt if I'm the only one who has had at least
four times as much trouble from the shipper as I've ever had from the
supplier.


OTOH - I'm getting a bit sick of Axminster's hit-rate for mis-picking
from the warehouse.

Don't know how it works on your side of the pond, but I've been very, very
fortunate here. My deliveries from every company I've used that sells
woodworking supplies have been on time, and usually contain everything in a
single package. that includes Lee Valley, Woodworker's Supply, Rockler, Cherry
Tree, Woodcraft, and several others to whom I offer an apology for leaving them
out. And I don't believe it's because they know I write about woodworking,
because orders go through an entirely different set-up, where it would be
unusual for any name recognition to occur.

I've seen several of these order groups, and customer service groups, in
action, and the dedication of the staffers in the top companies is incredible.
These are far from the highest paid employees in any of the companies, often
probably nearer the lowest (along with some of the pickers and packers in the
warehouses), but on the whole they are the hardest working, the most cheerful
and often the most competent.

Their bosses may or may not appreciate their efforts, but they certainly
should.

Charlie Self

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful."
Samuel Johnson

Joe Shmoe responds:

Watch your butt, Leon. Ol' Upscale is going to let you know you are
perfectly bored.

Charlie Self


I drilled a hole once that I thought was perfectly bored. Now all I want
is the perfect board.

Yeah, but like most of us, you'll settle. If you don't believe that, look
straight down after you pass 60.

Charlie Self

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful."
Samuel Johnson