Hi, folks,

Using lots of advice I've found on this group, I set about adjusting
my Grizzly contractor tablesaw to correct its extreme blade heel
problem--the back of the blade was over to the left at least 1/4 inch
more than the front of the blade!

I loosened the two back trunnion bolts and whacked, to no avail.

I loosened one of the front ones--still no better.

I have now loosened all four.

The whole assemble is will move around, but it seems to be moving
AROUND a point at the front of the blade. In other words, I can push
the back of the blade (via the trunnions below) and move the assembly
and the blade back and forth--but it's basically pivoting at the front
of the blade.

Just moving the back doesn't make enough of a correction. I need to
move the front one way and the back the other, but the front doesn't
seem to want to move.

Can anyone offer any advice? Thanks!

DS

"VeryLargeCorp" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi, folks,

Using lots of advice I've found on this group, I set about adjusting
my Grizzly contractor tablesaw to correct its extreme blade heel
problem--the back of the blade was over to the left at least 1/4 inch
more than the front of the blade!

I loosened the two back trunnion bolts and whacked, to no avail.

I loosened one of the front ones--still no better.

I have now loosened all four.

The whole assemble is will move around, but it seems to be moving
AROUND a point at the front of the blade. In other words, I can push
the back of the blade (via the trunnions below) and move the assembly
and the blade back and forth--but it's basically pivoting at the front
of the blade.

Just moving the back doesn't make enough of a correction. I need to
move the front one way and the back the other, but the front doesn't
seem to want to move.

Can anyone offer any advice? Thanks!

DS

This sound seems to show that the front trunnion is frozen in place.

You could try freeing the bolts by the use of a very long cheater.
Sometimes bolts can be freed by heating them with a torch, but you might set
the whole place on fire if there is any sawdust around. Sometimes, an
impact wrench will loosen an otherwise stuck bolt.

Otherwise, you might succeed in getting the bolts out by turning the saw
over (to keep things from falling down when you get the bolts loose enough).

Jim

On 25 Apr 2007 16:12:54 -0700, VeryLargeCorp wrote:

Hi, folks,

Using lots of advice I've found on this group, I set about adjusting
my Grizzly contractor tablesaw to correct its extreme blade heel
problem--the back of the blade was over to the left at least 1/4 inch
more than the front of the blade!

I loosened the two back trunnion bolts and whacked, to no avail.

I loosened one of the front ones--still no better.

I have now loosened all four.

The whole assemble is will move around, but it seems to be moving
AROUND a point at the front of the blade. In other words, I can push
the back of the blade (via the trunnions below) and move the assembly
and the blade back and forth--but it's basically pivoting at the front
of the blade.

Just moving the back doesn't make enough of a correction. I need to
move the front one way and the back the other, but the front doesn't
seem to want to move.

Can anyone offer any advice? Thanks!

DS


Are you sure you got all the bolts? On my new saw, I noticed it had 3
bolts in each trunnion compared to the two on my previous saw.

I had the exact same problem with my Grizzly G0444Z saw as you, being 1/4"
off and burning the wood when ripping. I previously posted it in this NG.
I had a lot of trouble moving the trunnion. One person on this NG said that
he put a large clamp on the back trunnion and brought it in by tightening
the clamp. I did this too and was able to bring the blade in. I put a dial
guage on the blade and the best I could acheive was it being 2,000th of and
inch out. I was informed that was good enough. I been toying with the idea
of taking the back trunnion off and elongating the 2 holes so that I could
get it dead on. I may call Grizzly and see what they say.
One thing you should look at is making sure that your fence is not out of
alignment too. Some say the fence should be an 1/8th off in the back and
others say it should be dead on. I put mine dead on.
Take a look at this site http://www.in-lineindustries.com/saw_pals.html
Ive been thinking of getting this item.

Again,
How are you checking for alignment? If you are checking for alignment
parallel with the miter slot, make sure you use the SAME spot on the blade
for the front and back measurement. Mark the blade with a sharpie and take
a measurement in the front then spin the
blade positioning the sharpie spot in the back and remeasure.

What are you using to make these measurements?

--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com

On Apr 25, 7:12 pm, VeryLargeCorp wrote:
Hi, folks,

Using lots of advice I've found on this group, I set about adjusting
my Grizzly contractor tablesaw to correct its extreme blade heel
problem--the back of the blade was over to the left at least 1/4 inch
more than the front of the blade!

I loosened the two back trunnion bolts and whacked, to no avail.

I loosened one of the front ones--still no better.

I have now loosened all four.

The whole assemble is will move around, but it seems to be moving
AROUND a point at the front of the blade. In other words, I can push
the back of the blade (via the trunnions below) and move the assembly
and the blade back and forth--but it's basically pivoting at the front
of the blade.

Just moving the back doesn't make enough of a correction. I need to
move the front one way and the back the other, but the front doesn't
seem to want to move.

Can anyone offer any advice? Thanks!

DS

Had a similar problem with my Jet CTS so you are not alone. Make sure
you loosen up the tilt wheel from the case that could keep the front
from moving.

So, when you "put a clamp on the back trunnion," what exactly did you
clamp TO?

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only who has had this problem. I've
talked to the folks at Grizzly and they've tried to be helpful, but
they're giving me the basic troubleshooting tips that are in the
manual, and don't seem to apply when the amount off is SO much.

(I have ordered a set of PALs--thanks for the tip.)

Thanks!
ds

Thanks for the suggestions. Because the difference from front to back
is so extreme (more than 1/4 inch), I haven't been very precise in my
measurements. I'm trying to just get it in the ballpark before
bothering with precision.

But to answer your question, I'm measuring with a stick clamped to the
miter bar. The stick has a screw in the end. Not the ultimate in
precision, I know, but good enough to get a least kinda close, I would
hope.

ds

RayV, you may have hit the nail on the head! I was just starting to
wonder if I needed to loosen something to allow the movement I need. I
think that may be the issue. I'll try it out and report back.

ds

I had a similar problem with at Powermatic Artisan saw; I never was able to
get it aligned properly. I sold it and bought a General (Canadian) cabinet
saw....what a nice piece of machinery.
Dave

"VeryLargeCorp" wrote in message
oups.com...
So, when you "put a clamp on the back trunnion," what exactly did you
clamp TO?

I took a pipe clamp and put one end on the end of the trunnion and the other
end on the on the side of the saw cabinet and tightened it .



I'm glad to hear I'm not the only who has had this problem. I've
talked to the folks at Grizzly and they've tried to be helpful, but
they're giving me the basic troubleshooting tips that are in the
manual, and don't seem to apply when the amount off is SO much.

(I have ordered a set of PALs--thanks for the tip.)

Thanks!
ds

"VeryLargeCorp" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the suggestions. Because the difference from front to back
is so extreme (more than 1/4 inch), I haven't been very precise in my
measurements. I'm trying to just get it in the ballpark before
bothering with precision.

But to answer your question, I'm measuring with a stick clamped to the
miter bar. The stick has a screw in the end. Not the ultimate in
precision, I know, but good enough to get a least kinda close, I would
hope.

ds


If you really serious about getting your table saw aligned. Give this a
try:

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TS_aligner.htm

Disclaimer: No affiliation. Just a satisfied customer.

--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com

Stoutman wrote:

If you really serious about getting your table saw aligned. Give this a
try:

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TS_aligner.htm

Disclaimer: No affiliation. Just a satisfied customer.

I don't think his problen is being able to measure how far off it is ..
... he can't move it enough to get it in proper alignment .. .. how will
a TS-Aligner help him with that ??

In my opinion, you have to have two things to align
any contractor saw:

(1) TS-Aligner ttp://www.ts-aligner.com/
(2) http://www.in-lineindustries.com/saw_pals.html

Without these two devices, you are in for a very long
day or night.......

You also need the instructions I gave you in a earlier
message from the B&D site.



VeryLargeCorp wrote:

Hi, folks,

Using lots of advice I've found on this group, I set about adjusting
my Grizzly contractor tablesaw to correct its extreme blade heel
problem--the back of the blade was over to the left at least 1/4 inch
more than the front of the blade!

Is this a new saw? If so, return it, it's defective. That is assuming
you didn't forget to loosen a bolt or two!!
I don't like the idea of using clamps to get a casting to line up.
Whats actually moving when you use the clamps? Is something bending?
Maybe this is why we hear of broken trunions?
Be careful with it. I've seen cast iron pieces snap, when tightened
down, and not aligned properly.

On 25 Apr 2007 16:12:54 -0700, VeryLargeCorp wrote:

Hi, folks,

snipped

DS


When you get through knocking it about, don't forget to check at full
45 to make sure you don't have interference with something. You don't
want to find that out when you crank over to make a bevel cut. In
particular, there is a rather small zone that clears the insert. The
blade to slot dimension has a small tolerance.

Frank

On Apr 26, 12:10 pm, sailor wrote:
Is this a new saw? If so, return it, it's defective. That is assuming
you didn't forget to loosen a bolt or two!!

It's new--still under warranty. The Grizzly folks actually offered to
start a return procedure, at least for the main table with the
trunnion mechanism. That's such a hassle, I'm just trying everything I
can before doing a return.

DS

On Apr 26, 2:01 pm, Pat Barber wrote:
In my opinion, you have to have two things to align
any contractor saw:

(1) TS-Aligner ttp://www.ts-aligner.com/
(2)http://www.in-lineindustries.com/saw_pals.html

My Delta CS cuts better than most PM66s, thanks to the PALS
upgrade, so well I've forgetten they're there. Aligned the blade
with a homemade sled-style dial gauge carriage.

Only prob was the inside corner fillets on the PALS brackets required
a
bit of filing to get the washers to sit dead flat.

Without these two devices, you are in for a very long
day or night.......

You also need the instructions I gave you in a earlier
message from the B&D site.

VeryLargeCorp wrote:
Hi, folks,

Using lots of advice I've found on this group, I set about adjusting
my Grizzly contractor tablesaw to correct its extreme blade heel
problem--the back of the blade was over to the left at least 1/4 inch
more than the front of the blade!

VeryLargeCorp wrote:

On Apr 26, 12:10 pm, sailor wrote:
Is this a new saw? If so, return it, it's defective. That is assuming
you didn't forget to loosen a bolt or two!!

It's new--still under warranty. The Grizzly folks actually offered to
start a return procedure, at least for the main table with the
trunnion mechanism. That's such a hassle, I'm just trying everything I
can before doing a return.


I missed the beginning of this thread, but if it's a contractor saw check to
be sure the error is the same at 90 and at 45. If not, the two bars
connecting the front and back trunnions are not parallel.


--
It's turtles, all the way down

"__ Bob __" wrote in message
...
Stoutman wrote:

If you really serious about getting your table saw aligned. Give this a
try:

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TS_aligner.htm

Disclaimer: No affiliation. Just a satisfied customer.

I don't think his problen is being able to measure how far off it is .. ..
he can't move it enough to get it in proper alignment .. .. how will a
TS-Aligner help him with that ??

Once he is able to move it, how is he going to align it? (the stick on a
miter gauge technique gets you close; the TS-Aligner gets you there all the
way!).


--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com

"__ Bob __" wrote in message
...
Stoutman wrote:

If you really serious about getting your table saw aligned. Give this a
try:

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TS_aligner.htm

Disclaimer: No affiliation. Just a satisfied customer.

I don't think his problen is being able to measure how far off it is .. ..
he can't move it enough to get it in proper alignment .. .. how will a
TS-Aligner help him with that ??

One more thing. What do you mean by "proper alignment"? I am a little
skeptical that his saw was that out of wack before he started screwing with
it.

How close to "proper alignment" can you get with the stick on a miter gauge
technique? 0.1" 0.01??? As little as 0.005" in error can adversely
effect the quality of your cuts.

Was he using the same spot on the blade for the front and back measurements?
If he wasn't, he is introducing even more error onto his "stick on a miter
gauge" alignment method technique.


--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com

When you first posted, you said that this just happened. It was suggested
then that you check to be sure that nothing is broken or loose. Have you
checked? Alignment problems like this don't just happen.

"VeryLargeCorp" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the suggestions. Because the difference from front to back
is so extreme (more than 1/4 inch), I haven't been very precise in my
measurements. I'm trying to just get it in the ballpark before
bothering with precision.

But to answer your question, I'm measuring with a stick clamped to the
miter bar. The stick has a screw in the end. Not the ultimate in
precision, I know, but good enough to get a least kinda close, I would
hope.

ds

Stoutman wrote:


Was he using the same spot on the blade for the front and back measurements?
If he wasn't, he is introducing even more error onto his "stick on a miter
gauge" alignment method technique.


Damn, Sam .. .. when you're talking about .250"+ discrepency, I wouldn't
be too concerned with WHAT tooth he used .. UNLESS his blade is warped
by that amount .. get real here. For what he's trying to accomplish
here, a high-dollar alignment tool would be a waste of time and money.
The ONLY thing a TS-Aligner would do is to more accurately inform him
of the degree of his problem.
Hell, I have one or two test indicators whose total travel is probably
less than .250", but they are extremely accurate within their range.
Maybe that's what he needs .. an indicator that reads in ten-thousandths
of an inch .. .. that'll make his error appear 10 times greater .. ..
AND it will be super-accurate !! !! !!


sheesh !!!

Damn, Sam .. .. when you're talking about .250"+ discrepency, I wouldn't
be too concerned with WHAT tooth he used .. UNLESS his blade is warped by
that amount .. get real here.

Blade warp or highs and lows add to ANY error measurement, regardless of
what tool he used.

For what he's trying to accomplish here,

He is trying to align his blade parallel (trunnion adjustment) with his
miter gage slot. Why wouldn't you want to align it properly? Stick on a
miter gage isn't the proper way of doing this. I really question the error
he initially reported because of the method he acquired it.

a high-dollar alignment tool would be a waste of time and money.

This tool is far from "high-dollar". Geesh. How much did he spend on his
TS? Blade?

The ONLY thing a TS-Aligner would do is to more accurately inform him of
the degree of his problem.

You hit the nail right on the head.

Hell, I have one or two test indicators whose total travel is probably
less than .250", but they are extremely accurate within their range. Maybe
that's what he needs .. an indicator that reads in ten-thousandths of an
inch .. .. that'll make his error appear 10 times greater .. ..

NO!! It won't make his error appear 10 times greater. It will make his
error reading more accurate.

AND it will be super-accurate !! !! !!

Yes. Why not?


sheesh !!!

Geesh!

Blade warp or highs and lows add to ANY error measurement, regardless of
what tool he used.

UNLESS you take your measurements from the same spot on the blade.

Using that technique, I can get it within .002, guaranteed. Likely closer.
Indicator is faster though.

"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...

How close to "proper alignment" can you get with the stick on a miter
gauge
technique? 0.1" 0.01??? As little as 0.005" in error can adversely
effect the quality of your cuts.

On Apr 26, 6:09 pm, "__ Bob __" wrote:
Stoutman wrote:
Was he using the same spot on the blade for the front and back measurements?
If he wasn't, he is introducing even more error onto his "stick on a miter
gauge" alignment method technique.

Damn, Sam .. .. when you're talking about .250"+ discrepency, I wouldn't
be too concerned with WHAT tooth he used .. UNLESS his blade is warped
by that amount .. get real here. For what he's trying to accomplish
here, a high-dollar alignment tool would be a waste of time and money.
The ONLY thing a TS-Aligner would do is to more accurately inform him
of the degree of his problem.
Hell, I have one or two test indicators whose total travel is probably
less than .250", but they are extremely accurate within their range.
Maybe that's what he needs .. an indicator that reads in ten-thousandths
of an inch .. .. that'll make his error appear 10 times greater .. ..
AND it will be super-accurate !! !! !!

sheesh !!!

Agreed, to a point. All you really need to align the blade to the slot
is a consistent reference point (provided by the screw on the stick on
the gauge) and a set of feeler gauges. Tom

On Apr 26, 6:29 pm, tom wrote:
On Apr 26, 6:09 pm, "__ Bob __" wrote:





Stoutman wrote:
Was he using the same spot on the blade for the front and back measurements?
If he wasn't, he is introducing even more error onto his "stick on a miter
gauge" alignment method technique.

Damn, Sam .. .. when you're talking about .250"+ discrepency, I wouldn't
be too concerned with WHAT tooth he used .. UNLESS his blade is warped
by that amount .. get real here. For what he's trying to accomplish
here, a high-dollar alignment tool would be a waste of time and money.
The ONLY thing a TS-Aligner would do is to more accurately inform him
of the degree of his problem.
Hell, I have one or two test indicators whose total travel is probably
less than .250", but they are extremely accurate within their range.
Maybe that's what he needs .. an indicator that reads in ten-thousandths
of an inch .. .. that'll make his error appear 10 times greater .. ..
AND it will be super-accurate !! !! !!

sheesh !!!

Agreed, to a point. All you really need to align the blade to the slot
is a consistent reference point (provided by the screw on the stick on
the gauge) and a set of feeler gauges. Tom- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry to the TSaligner clan... Tom

Using that technique, I can get it within .002, guaranteed. Likely closer.
Indicator is faster though.

Feeler gauge?? Won't the feeler gauge flex the blade over as you slip it
between? I push on my blade (CMT combo blade) a smidge and I see my
indicator swing like mad (even though the flex is not visible to the eye).



"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...

How close to "proper alignment" can you get with the stick on a miter
gauge
technique? 0.1" 0.01??? As little as 0.005" in error can adversely
effect the quality of your cuts.

Sorry to the TSaligner clan... Tom

Shhh! There is no clan.

On Apr 26, 6:36 pm, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:
Sorry to the TSaligner clan... Tom

Shhh! There is no clan.



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hehee, well it does require a "feel" for the drag created by the
feeler gauge... Tom

I don't use a feeler gage.
"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...

Using that technique, I can get it within .002, guaranteed. Likely
closer.
Indicator is faster though.

Feeler gauge?? Won't the feeler gauge flex the blade over as you slip it
between? I push on my blade (CMT combo blade) a smidge and I see my
indicator swing like mad (even though the flex is not visible to the eye).



"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...

How close to "proper alignment" can you get with the stick on a miter
gauge
technique? 0.1" 0.01??? As little as 0.005" in error can adversely
effect the quality of your cuts.

"CW" wrote in message
nk.net...
When you first posted, you said that this just happened. It was suggested
then that you check to be sure that nothing is broken or loose. Have you
checked? Alignment problems like this don't just happen.

"VeryLargeCorp" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the suggestions. Because the difference from front to back
is so extreme (more than 1/4 inch), I haven't been very precise in my
measurements. I'm trying to just get it in the ballpark before
bothering with precision.

But to answer your question, I'm measuring with a stick clamped to the
miter bar. The stick has a screw in the end. Not the ultimate in
precision, I know, but good enough to get a least kinda close, I would
hope.

ds

I use both my square to measure from the miter track and dial guage to check
the sawblade for trueness.
I got my dial gauge and magnetic mount from Harbor Freight both for $16 on
sale. It works just great. It was made in China, but so what , the TS
Aligner was probably made there too. I also mounted my gauge on a piece of
hard wood that fits in the miter gauge track and by doing this I was able to
slide the gauge forward and backward.

Boy, reading this thread, sure makes me happy to own a cabinet saw!

I use both my square to measure from the miter track and dial guage to
check the sawblade for trueness.
I got my dial gauge and magnetic mount from Harbor Freight both for $16 on
sale. It works just great. It was made in China, but so what , the TS
Aligner was probably made there too.

Nope. Made in the good ol' USA by Edward Bennett.


I also mounted my gauge on a piece of hard wood that fits in the miter
gauge track and by doing this I was able to slide the gauge forward and
backward.

Stoutman wrote:

Feeler gauge?? Won't the feeler gauge flex the blade over as you slip it
between?


Not if you learn how to use one .. .. .. a rare skill in this day of
digital-mania !! The skill of "feeling" the drag on a feeler gauge is
the secret to it's use. BTW, that's how the "feeler gauge" got it's
name .. .. .. you FEEL the drag.

Except for the gage, which is made in China. The TSA is a fine piece of work
though and if I was to buy a device such as this, it would be the one.

"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...

Nope. Made in the good ol' USA by Edward Bennett.

On Apr 26, 7:18 pm, "__ Bob __" wrote:
Stoutman wrote:
Feeler gauge?? Won't the feeler gauge flex the blade over as you slip it
between?

Not if you learn how to use one .. .. .. a rare skill in this day of
digital-mania !! The skill of "feeling" the drag on a feeler gauge is
the secret to it's use. BTW, that's how the "feeler gauge" got it's
name .. .. .. you FEEL the drag.

Ahh, rare skills, indeed. Tom

When I first got my tablesaw I checked and set the alignment only
by setting a combination square body up against the miter slot and
extending the blade til it just kissed the frontmost tooth of the blade.
Turn the blade til that same tooth is at the rear, then move the combination
square back, adjust until the blade makes same degree of contact with
same tooth at the rear. A little time consuming perhaps but effective. IIRC
I read of this method in Kelly Mehler's Tablesaw book. After I got
a dial indicator and rechecked the saw it was within a few thousandths.

--
Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On Apr 25, 7:12 pm, VeryLargeCorp wrote:
Hi, folks,

Using lots of advice I've found on this group, I set about adjusting
my Grizzly contractor tablesaw to correct its extreme blade heel
problem--the back of the blade was over to the left at least 1/4 inch
more than the front of the blade!

I loosened the two back trunnion bolts and whacked, to no avail.

I loosened one of the front ones--still no better.

I have now loosened all four.

The whole assemble is will move around, but it seems to be moving
AROUND a point at the front of the blade. In other words, I can push
the back of the blade (via the trunnions below) and move the assembly
and the blade back and forth--but it's basically pivoting at the front
of the blade.

Just moving the back doesn't make enough of a correction. I need to
move the front one way and the back the other, but the front doesn't
seem to want to move.

Can anyone offer any advice? Thanks!

DS

Just got this offer via email
http://www.ptreeusa.com/edirect_042707.htm

can't speak to the quality just passing it along.