"Wayne J." wrote in message
news:ZOuWh.113308$6m4.40025@pd7urf1no...

Leon has a point. When I worked at Delta, we had two common failurs in the
older unisaws, trunions and starters. The starters we used in Canada were
prone to failure on the contact points. The trunions coould just macigally
snap. We used to believe it was QC. The later generaion ones were better.
Still my favorite, but the SawStop is getting my attention. I still have
all 10 fingers, but I have had my share of scares.

Wayne


Thanks Wayne,

I really did not dream this stuff up. LOL.

"Leon" wrote in message

"Swingman" wrote in message



Next time specifically request "civil" opinions ... while you still may
not
get any, you will at least have a leg to stand on when whining.


;~)

Hey, ya gotta be TOUGH in this 'hood!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

"Wayne J." wrote in message
news:4YuWh.113318$6m4.29316@pd7urf1no...


Man, this is a tough crowd.

Ywah, it can be. Lots of us like to yank yank chains. ;~)

Please do stick around as we can use some input from the tool guys with
knowledge of the products.


Anyways, thanks everyone for your opinions. I am going to explore it,
along with Delta and a couple of others. SWMBO is getting real concerned
with my old saw, so maybe she will let me spring for a "safer" saw.

And now that I know that you are very familiar with the Unisaw, I can whole
heartedly recommend you continue to consider it. There should be no
surprises.
If you would consider the little less traditional TS's take a look at the
Laguna's also. They are in the PM66 and Saw Stop price range. Still the
SawStop should prevent serious injury.

Wayne J. wrote:

SWMBO is getting real concerned with my
old saw, so maybe she will let me spring for a "safer" saw.

So what is existing saw?

Lew

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Wayne J." wrote in message
news:4YuWh.113318$6m4.29316@pd7urf1no...


Man, this is a tough crowd.

Ywah, it can be. Lots of us like to yank yank chains. ;~)

Please do stick around as we can use some input from the tool guys with
knowledge of the products.


Anyways, thanks everyone for your opinions. I am going to explore it,
along with Delta and a couple of others. SWMBO is getting real concerned
with my old saw, so maybe she will let me spring for a "safer" saw.

And now that I know that you are very familiar with the Unisaw, I can
whole heartedly recommend you continue to consider it. There should be no
surprises.
If you would consider the little less traditional TS's take a look at the
Laguna's also. They are in the PM66 and Saw Stop price range. Still the
SawStop should prevent serious injury.
I will stick around, thanks Leon.

I am not familiar with Laguna here in Canada, I will have to go see them at
the next show.

I searched them on line and I like what I see so far.

They ship to Coguitlam BC at the end of each month for customer pick up.
That isn't a stretch to go and pick one up if I order it.

wayne

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
Wayne J. wrote:

SWMBO is getting real concerned with my old saw, so maybe she will let me
spring for a "safer" saw.

So what is existing saw?

Lew

I think he said an old Rockwell.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
Wayne J. wrote:

SWMBO is getting real concerned with my old saw, so maybe she will let me
spring for a "safer" saw.

So what is existing saw?

Lew

9" Rockwell 6201B (made in Guelph Ontario, circa 1975). Good saw. Came with
two extensions and round fence rails . The rails had the ability to be
placed so that the extensions were all on one side or one on each side of
the blade. Putting them all the way to the right gives you a 48" rip
setting. It was the only saw up here that did that other then the Unisaw
back then.

Problem is it only uses round rails, so I can't put a Beismeyer on it.
(crud).

It is powered by a 220VAC 1.5 HP Marathon motor off of a AB paddle starter.
The guts of the saw are identical to the 10" contractor saws. The cabinet,
handwheels and top were different.

Wayne

On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:11:21 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
.. .




Eight to ten years and farther back the Unisaw would have been a good
choice. Since then it simply is not what it usta be. Delta was having QC
problems with the saw.......

Not true. Quote your source. We've been through this before, twice.

Texas Tool Traders. They told me this when I was compairing a Unisaw to a
Jet. The Unisaw sat on the show room floor with a broken trunion. A Delta
rep e-mailed me direct concerning this issue in so much that Texas Tool
traders could not repair the saw because of a trunion BO status. The rep
assured me that he would look into resolving the matter.


Not doubting what you say, however, has nothing to do with "quality
problems" at Delta. Has a lot to do with "quality" problems with LTL
shippers.

The established process was for the distributor to file a freight
claim, return the unit, and receive another. All at Delta's cost.
Why this was not done in the case you describe is beyond me. Most
others just sent them back.





and their have been many reports of new Unisaws
arriving with broken trunions.

True, quite some time ago. Any damaged units were replaced under
warranty. Most discovered at the distributor, did not go to the
customer. Has nothing to do with the quality of a unit delivered in
good shape.

The broken trunion on the saw that I saw was about 6 years ago.

Frank normally I would agree. But, how is it that the brand saw that
arrives damaged is the Delta Unisaw? I read on this news group from a
respected poster that Delta later admitted that the trunions were being
improperly torqued. A DAGS should show you that comment if you are
interested.

I've tried to fiind it and asked you to verify. Last time you posted
for all to see that it was Charlie Self. If so, Charlie should
corroborate. Now a respected poster may have said it, but I've told
you many times it is simply not true, so the respected poster had to
have been misled. If you could lead me to the source, maybe we could
clear this up. Until then, I will continue to challenge your statement
whenever you post it. I will not challenge your opinion of Delta, nor
your choice of equipment, nor any recommendation you make to others,
as long as no statements are made that I know to be not factual or not
relevant today.

As one who lived through the entire ordeal of broken trunions from
start to finish, I probably know more than anyone else about the
issue.


Regardless, if a particular brand tool is having a problem with
transportation or manufacturing, that is a QC problem and it is that brands
problem until the problem is resolved.

You saw one six years ago. Problem was resolved shortly after that. I
wonder why whenever anyone says they might buy a Delta you bring it up
like it is a current problem. Look, you can have your opinion about
what you prefer as can anyone, but it is disingenuous to continue to
post about "quality problems" or "improper torque settings" over and
over when it is not true.

To be fair, there have been many reports of Grizzlys being delivered tipped
over and up side down. Oddly many reportedly had only superficial damage.

Perhaps Delta would not be in the shape it is in today had corporate greed
not entered into the equasion and continued to deliver a compeditive quality
product.

Granted, however, absolutely nothing to do with your statements above.

I really have nothing to gain one way or the other concerning the problems
Delta is having or has had. I own and have owned a few Delta tools and
strongly considered the Unisaw to be my first choice when buying 6 or 7
years ago but then I went to the local dealer and listened to his comments,
the reps comments, and the posts on this group, and then directly compared
the Unisaw to the Jet cabinet saw, well you get the picture.

Great, you evaluated and made an informed buying decision. That is
everyone's right.

I am not saying that the Unisaw is a bad choice, again I am only saying that
the Unisaw is not what it used to be and the QC has not been up to par with
the competition.

That (QC up to par with the competition) is your opinion and you have
a right to express it, just please don't use untruthful statements or
issues of another time that would not be relevant today to support
that opinion. I would appreciate that.



For a while Delta blamed the shipping
company.

For very good reason. Trunions were breaking from a specific tip over
which generally happened on shipping docks during LTL shipment.

Why were the other brand saws not being tipped over like the Deltas? Was
Delta being targeted?

Don't have a clue

This went on for a few years IIRC. Why was packageing not improved to
prevent this?

It was. Package was ISTA certified (do you know what that is?) both
before the problem started and was tested a number of additional
times as the pack was modified. It never failed a truck vibration,
inclined ramp, or straight drop test as requried to be ISTA certified.
That's what caused so much delay. We couldn't figure out what was
happening until we purposely started to try to destroy them. In
essence bacame an LTL shipper to see if we could simulate the problem.

QC does not stop at the factory door. Perhaps equipment
built to withstand a boat ride holds up better on the docks.

The company is responsible for the product until delivery is accepted
by the distributor and continues to be responsible for the product in
some manner for its life. The factory manufacturing quality is part
of that responsibility and had nothing to do with this problem.

On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 20:51:05 GMT, "Wayne J." wrote:


"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote in message

Eight to ten years and farther back the Unisaw would have been a good
choice. Since then it simply is not what it usta be.

According to Frank B., and everything I've seen myself backs him up, any
"UniSaw, pre 2003, and with the marathon motor", and you will be getting
what us old-timer's would expect when buying a "UniSaw".


Ok, I'll go with that, however the ones with the broken trunions were
older than the 2003 and later models.

Leon has a point. When I worked at Delta, we had two common failurs in the
older unisaws, trunions and starters. The starters we used in Canada were
prone to failure on the contact points. The trunions coould just macigally
snap. We used to believe it was QC. The later generaion ones were better.
Still my favorite, but the SawStop is getting my attention. I still have all
10 fingers, but I have had my share of scares.

Wayne



So Wayne, elaborate. When did you work for Delta, and in what
capacity. What starter are you talking about. Where did you get
your Unisaws. When you speak of later generation, what would you be
talking about in time frame.

Wayne J. wrote:


9" Rockwell 6201B (made in Guelph Ontario, circa 1975).

Been there, neat town.

Good saw. Came with
two extensions and round fence rails . The rails had the ability to be
placed so that the extensions were all on one side or one on each side of
the blade. Putting them all the way to the right gives you a 48" rip
setting. It was the only saw up here that did that other then the Unisaw
back then.

Problem is it only uses round rails, so I can't put a Beismeyer on it.
(crud).

It is powered by a 220VAC 1.5 HP Marathon motor off of a AB paddle starter.
The guts of the saw are identical to the 10" contractor saws. The cabinet,
handwheels and top were different.

Sounds like you have at least 90% of a new saw already in place.

Time to spend some creative time on the thinking chair.

Couple of questions?

What is req'd to convert to accept a 10" blade?

Would you consider a UniFence?

If so, what would it take to fit a UniFence extrusion on the front of
the saw?


Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
Wayne J. wrote:


9" Rockwell 6201B (made in Guelph Ontario, circa 1975).

Been there, neat town.

Good saw. Came with two extensions and round fence rails . The rails had
the ability to be placed so that the extensions were all on one side or
one on each side of the blade. Putting them all the way to the right
gives you a 48" rip setting. It was the only saw up here that did that
other then the Unisaw back then.

Problem is it only uses round rails, so I can't put a Beismeyer on it.
(crud).

It is powered by a 220VAC 1.5 HP Marathon motor off of a AB paddle
starter. The guts of the saw are identical to the 10" contractor saws.
The cabinet, handwheels and top were different.

Sounds like you have at least 90% of a new saw already in place.

Time to spend some creative time on the thinking chair.

Couple of questions?

What is req'd to convert to accept a 10" blade?

Would you consider a UniFence?

If so, what would it take to fit a UniFence extrusion on the front of the
saw?


Lew

I have chewed on that one for years. I think it may be as simple as mounting
the front rail using curved spaces that would fit in the groove that runs
along the front of the table top. As for a 10" blade, the is not enough
upwards clearance before it would hit the front or the back of the insert
hole. I thought about making a different insert, but again, same issue.

the 9: has been great for the past 10 years, before that I had a 34-450C
Unisaw with the 3 HP 220VAC (before they started adding all the other
numbers to the models). I sold it when we moved as I didn't think I would
need it anymore................silly silly silly............

My workshop would easily handle the saw as it is 12' x 20'. this way I can
rip or cross cut a full 4'x8' piece without any effort.

No, it will be a new say. I just need to sell it to the boss

wayne\

Yeah - Go over to rec.outdoors.rv.travel and post a message with header "gun
control". You don't need any words and your likely to goe 200 posts.

Not really - kidding.

(Kidding about actually doing it - not the # of posts) - It's like this
place. Good folks but salty.

RonB


Nasty? If you think anyone here is nasty, spend a few days over at
rec.outdoors.rv-travel. Salty bunch of *******s!

BTW, ignore Doug and ask away. Most folks over here are pretty easy to
get
along with. Apparently it's Doug's time of the month.

RonB


thanks Ron. The only other NG, I go to is RORT, so I am used to it.

wayne

"RonB" wrote in message
...
Might look at Grizzly 1023 series too. I don't know what shipping into
Canada costs but it is in a real similar class as the Unisaw and Jet
Cabinet saws.

RonB

"Wayne J." wrote in message
news:MCnWh.111476$DE1.21531@pd7urf2no...

"Han" wrote in message
...
"Wayne J." wrote in
news:q4nWh.111119$aG1.88833@pd7urf3no:

why can't a person just ask a question and not get a civil answer?

Like I have posted above, I have researched this and I am asking for
some genuine opinions. If you don't have one, then don't asnwer.

I am very sorry I cam back to this group.

thank you
wayne

The subject has been discussed to death.
What I got from all the opinions is that the Sawstop company would like
to
make their patented technology obligatory in the name of safety. They
could not persuade nor legislate that. So they decided to make their
own
machine. Apparently it is generally well made, does what it advertizes,
but is expensive. You do the cost-benefit analysis.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

thanks Han.

I am seeing that as it is about $2,000 higher then a Unisaw up here in
Canada. I think I may still go with the Unisaw or a Jet.

I am going to go talk to a friend at Lee Valley today, though.

thks
Wayne




Grizzly used to be available in Canada, but now they are not shippping to
Canada. The good news is they have an outlet just across the border in
Bellingham, Washington. That is very close. I will check out with Canadian
Border Services to see if they are restricted for some reason. Probably CSA
approval.

thks

the ususal two that get the most action a
"why can't I bring my concealed hand guns in to Canada?" and anything that
says one make of truck is better then another.

either is usually good for a few days.


"RonB" wrote in message
...
Yeah - Go over to rec.outdoors.rv.travel and post a message with header
"gun control". You don't need any words and your likely to goe 200 posts.

Not really - kidding.

(Kidding about actually doing it - not the # of posts) - It's like this
place. Good folks but salty.

RonB


Nasty? If you think anyone here is nasty, spend a few days over at
rec.outdoors.rv-travel. Salty bunch of *******s!

BTW, ignore Doug and ask away. Most folks over here are pretty easy to
get
along with. Apparently it's Doug's time of the month.

RonB


thanks Ron. The only other NG, I go to is RORT, so I am used to it.

wayne

Wayne J. wrote:

9" Rockwell 6201B (made in Guelph Ontario, circa 1975). Good saw. Came with
two extensions and round fence rails . The rails had the ability to be
placed so that the extensions were all on one side or one on each side of
the blade. Putting them all the way to the right gives you a 48" rip
setting. It was the only saw up here that did that other then the Unisaw
back then.

That's relatively new Wayne. Did you see my post about the Delta 1160 I
bought at an estate sale?

--
It's turtles, all the way down

Doug,

Deep breath in......

Your suggestions that people research before they ask a question here is
fundamentaly flawed.

What makes you the sole arbiter of where one commences a search? Why is
it correct that someone must search google before they use a newsgroup?
Newsgroups pre-date Google by a looong way. What makes it correct that you
can't come here until you have been there?????

Your position is based on YOUR view of the world, and which end of the
chicken the bloody egg came out of.

My view is that there is NOTHING wrong with someone asking in a
newsgroup a question that might have been asked a million times. Go to a
pub, lean against the local bar, and ask "Who is that statue out there in
memory of?" They don't all pipe in and say "Go to the Library mate - all the
answers you need are there, now **** off "

I was importing the mail for Australia on a 1200/300 push button dial up
link to California, long before the Internet became fashionable. (3:640/301,
820, 801, 802 and for a while 3:640/0 and /1. We had these same arguments
back then - why dont you read the archives blah blah blah. Well - the WORLD
is so big u see, that there are new people coming on board all the time -
was true then, and is more true now - there are people every day STARTING at
google, or STARTING on newsgroups, or STARTING with a text book. The
residents of Google-land, Newsgroup land, and or the Library should not be
pointing at some other source of the information and re-directing. If you
don't want to provide the answer - shut up and let some one else do so. (I
don't mean that to sound aggressive - it is not meant that way) There are
plenty of people who will give an answer to a question that has been asked
before, of someone else, by someone else at a different time. And If I have
seen it before - I move on. Is easy. IS certainly easier than all this
moaning of mine :-)


Your position is yours - I just object to you being so bloody minded
about it - thats my position :-)

Have good day.

O, btw, Does anybody have any info on explosions caused by ungrounded dust
collection systems?

Regards
Mike (in flameproof suit)
Brisbane Australia


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
In article q4nWh.111119$aG1.88833@pd7urf3no, "Wayne J."
wrote:
why can't a person just ask a question and not get a civil answer?

Why can't a person do a little research before asking a question that's
already been answered a hundred times?

SNIP

I am very sorry I cam back to this group.

You're probably not the only one.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

SNAP

SNIP

Next time specifically request "civil" opinions ... while you still may
not
get any, you will at least have a leg to stand on when whining.

--

SNIP

LOL!
:-)
Mike.

5
"Mike Richardson" wrote in message
Your suggestions that people research before they ask a question here is
fundamentaly flawed.

It may have been a flawed suggestion at one time, but considering the ease
with which one can get most information these days, it makes complete sense
to try to find the answer yourself first. Any experience at all on the
internet teaches most people that it's essentially lazy for one not to try
on their own first.

As well, it could be considered self-preservation. If the OP had posted
something like, "I did a Google search but didn't come up with any
information" then he'd have been much more well received. Of course, if he'd
tried that line with the fact that he'd Googled Sawstop and found nothing,
then he'd have been laughed out of town.

Upscale,

I must have mis-stated my point. My point is that this newsgroup IS a
valid first point of reference for the question. I do not believe it is
correct that you must first research ANOTHER source prior to asking here.

By that reasoning - when he searches on google he will first have to
have tried somewhere else???

I simply can't agree that this newsgroup isn't as good a place as any
other to start a search - it is after all a better gathering of expertise
and wisdom than any other "repository" - albeit some of us haven't taken
their supository some days...(yes - me included)

Please - do NOT confuse this point with my undoubted respect for the
skill, knowledge and general good nature of wreck participants - I GREATLY
value all contribution (even those that are wrong / opposite to mine...)

I think Google has masterminded some sort of cultural mindset
retraining - perhaps even using nefarious chemicals, to position itself as
the pre-eminant suppository. (repository?)

Personally - I find Google pops up as much bull**** as valuable
information - and who says it is tru/accurate anyway? Far better to go to
my local pub (newsgroup) and ask all the ****heads. Oops I mean
wood-dorkers...

Now as a long term reader - I know a lot of threads have been flogged
stupid, but the newbie doesn't - and has just as much right to make a
newsgroup his first reference point as he does the communist manifesto or
Google....

By denying them the right to address the denizens of the wreck unless it
is a NEW question, or RESEARCHED question, removes one of the major benefits
and purposes of the newsgroup to begin with....

My background just does NOT lend itself to thinking of the latecomer
(google) as the best source of reference. I was emailing and newsgrouping
back before zmodem, and it is just natural for me to feel that the better
facts, skill-set, resources are available in newsgroups. As another point
of view, some people when they fire up a pc, nerd-dom path, find newsgroups
PRIOR to search engine technology and so on. (Oh - and I conceed the point
thouroughly that some are just lazy - don't doubt that at all... - and that
can grind - as I am sure it does on Doug, CW, JT et al. It grinds on me
also...I try to clamp the mouth/fingers shut.)

I hope that better reflects my thoughts (yes at least 2 of em) on the
subject... (smiles)

Anyway - don't stop contributing - you are on my highlight list - not my
dissapear me list :-)

With the greatest of respect,

Mike
Brisbane Aus.
"Upscale" wrote in message
...
5
"Mike Richardson" wrote in message
Your suggestions that people research before they ask a question here is
fundamentaly flawed.

It may have been a flawed suggestion at one time, but considering the ease
with which one can get most information these days, it makes complete
sense
to try to find the answer yourself first. Any experience at all on the
internet teaches most people that it's essentially lazy for one not to try
on their own first.

As well, it could be considered self-preservation. If the OP had posted
something like, "I did a Google search but didn't come up with any
information" then he'd have been much more well received. Of course, if
he'd
tried that line with the fact that he'd Googled Sawstop and found nothing,
then he'd have been laughed out of town.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

Snip


I'm sure some will consider my opinion to be utter garbage, but if I or
someone else can't deal with that sentiment, then is not a place you want
to
be. Many might consider this discussion the making of a mountain out of a
molehill, but the bulk of the messages in any newsgroup is discussion like
this one.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox. It's someone else's turn.



Ah, but you see thats why the Wreck/ng's are simultaneously frustrating and
marvellous. For some its "Mark Conversation as Read" for some it's "Ignore
Conversation" and for some it is "Take bait and chew down hard". Me - I am
guilty of em all....

Ups, I have no issue with you having a different opinion to me - I am just
upset that you didn't answer my original question about grounding dust
collection systems...

Huh? Wassat? The yellow one? Oh damn I took two blue ones. Grumble

Mike
Brisbane Aus.

"Mike Richardson" wrote in message

Ups, I have no issue with you having a different opinion to me - I am just
upset that you didn't answer my original question about grounding dust
collection systems...

You can easily find that information on the Prodigy or CompuServe discussion
groups. Works best if you have a fast 1200 baud modem.

"Mike Richardson" wrote in message

I think Google has masterminded some sort of cultural mindset
retraining - perhaps even using nefarious chemicals, to position itself as
the pre-eminant suppository. (repository?)

I guess we're just going to have to disagree then. As far as Google goes,
there's plenty of other online sources to get information, it doesn't have
to be Google at all. It's just that since most (many) consider it the
pre-eminent online search engine, it's the first name that pops into my mind
when I consider finding many types of information. I'm reasonably sure,
(much to your chagrin), that "google" has or will remain a fully recognized
word meaning the equivalent of "search engine" long after Google the company
has retired into the annals of history.

However, I digress in my argument. I'm old enough to have plenty of
experience in the time before internet when the quickest way to find
information was to ask someone. If that didn't work and you wanted to invest
the time, you went to find test on the subject. These methods are no longer
the quickest way to an answer. For simple questions, an online search is
easily the fastest method. Placing the question in a newsgroup means that
person has to wait for someone to respond. It's not nearly as fast and the
answer is much more subject to being "coloured" by the personality of the
respondent.

I can only assume that someone who couldn't be bothered to put in a small
amount of time to get a quick answer feels that it's easier to use up
someone else's time to than use their own. These days, that just doesn't cut
it. I know that many feel as I do, that if you want information, then be
prepared to make at least a token effort to find the answer by yourself
first. At the very least, come forearmed with a little information you've
sourced out so you can contribute something on the subject or at least ask
intelligent questions as you mine the users here for information.

I'm sure some will consider my opinion to be utter garbage, but if I or
someone else can't deal with that sentiment, then is not a place you want to
be. Many might consider this discussion the making of a mountain out of a
molehill, but the bulk of the messages in any newsgroup is discussion like
this one.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox. It's someone else's turn.

Snickle
With ymodem I spose
For dem bigger packets

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
et...

"Mike Richardson" wrote in message

Ups, I have no issue with you having a different opinion to me - I am
just upset that you didn't answer my original question about grounding
dust collection systems...

You can easily find that information on the Prodigy or CompuServe
discussion groups. Works best if you have a fast 1200 baud modem.

"Mike Richardson" wrote in message

Ups, I have no issue with you having a different opinion to me - I am just
upset that you didn't answer my original question about grounding dust
collection systems...

Would that I could, but considering my non-existent experience with dust
collection systems, I'll have to defer to others.

An alternative is Shop Fox. They are the retail outlet version of Grizzly.
Pretty much the same machines with different looks.

RonB

"Wayne J." wrote in message
news:nYzWh.113820$6m4.105988@pd7urf1no...

"RonB" wrote in message
...
Might look at Grizzly 1023 series too. I don't know what shipping into
Canada costs but it is in a real similar class as the Unisaw and Jet
Cabinet saws.

RonB

"Wayne J." wrote in message
news:MCnWh.111476$DE1.21531@pd7urf2no...

"Han" wrote in message
...
"Wayne J." wrote in
news:q4nWh.111119$aG1.88833@pd7urf3no:

why can't a person just ask a question and not get a civil answer?

Like I have posted above, I have researched this and I am asking for
some genuine opinions. If you don't have one, then don't asnwer.

I am very sorry I cam back to this group.

thank you
wayne

The subject has been discussed to death.
What I got from all the opinions is that the Sawstop company would like
to
make their patented technology obligatory in the name of safety. They
could not persuade nor legislate that. So they decided to make their
own
machine. Apparently it is generally well made, does what it
advertizes,
but is expensive. You do the cost-benefit analysis.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

thanks Han.

I am seeing that as it is about $2,000 higher then a Unisaw up here in
Canada. I think I may still go with the Unisaw or a Jet.

I am going to go talk to a friend at Lee Valley today, though.

thks
Wayne




Grizzly used to be available in Canada, but now they are not shippping to
Canada. The good news is they have an outlet just across the border in
Bellingham, Washington. That is very close. I will check out with Canadian
Border Services to see if they are restricted for some reason. Probably
CSA approval.

thks

BTW - We have been to the Grizzly Springfield store. If you haven't been to
their outlet, by all means do. It is the ultimate big-boys candy store.

RonB

An alternative is Shop Fox. They are the retail outlet version of
Grizzly. Pretty much the same machines with different looks.

RonB

"Wayne J." wrote in message
news:nYzWh.113820$6m4.105988@pd7urf1no...

"RonB" wrote in message
...
Might look at Grizzly 1023 series too. I don't know what shipping into
Canada costs but it is in a real similar class as the Unisaw and Jet
Cabinet saws.

RonB

"Wayne J." wrote in message
news:MCnWh.111476$DE1.21531@pd7urf2no...

"Han" wrote in message
...
"Wayne J." wrote in
news:q4nWh.111119$aG1.88833@pd7urf3no:

why can't a person just ask a question and not get a civil answer?

Like I have posted above, I have researched this and I am asking for
some genuine opinions. If you don't have one, then don't asnwer.

I am very sorry I cam back to this group.

thank you
wayne

The subject has been discussed to death.
What I got from all the opinions is that the Sawstop company would
like to
make their patented technology obligatory in the name of safety. They
could not persuade nor legislate that. So they decided to make their
own
machine. Apparently it is generally well made, does what it
advertizes,
but is expensive. You do the cost-benefit analysis.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

thanks Han.

I am seeing that as it is about $2,000 higher then a Unisaw up here in
Canada. I think I may still go with the Unisaw or a Jet.

I am going to go talk to a friend at Lee Valley today, though.

thks
Wayne




Grizzly used to be available in Canada, but now they are not shippping to
Canada. The good news is they have an outlet just across the border in
Bellingham, Washington. That is very close. I will check out with
Canadian Border Services to see if they are restricted for some reason.
Probably CSA approval.

thks

My view is that there is NOTHING wrong with someone asking in a
newsgroup..........

Amen. Actually, I though that was why we hang out in theses places.

To help and to learn.

RonB

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...

Texas Tool Traders. They told me this when I was compairing a Unisaw to a
Jet. The Unisaw sat on the show room floor with a broken trunion. A
Delta
rep e-mailed me direct concerning this issue in so much that Texas Tool
traders could not repair the saw because of a trunion BO status. The rep
assured me that he would look into resolving the matter.


Not doubting what you say, however, has nothing to do with "quality
problems" at Delta. Has a lot to do with "quality" problems with LTL
shippers.

You can color the pig any color you like Frank but in the end, all the
customer saw was QC problems. It does not matter who you point the finger
at, the customer is the one that has to be convienced. Having been in the
service business all my life, out side vendors and contractors that help to
bring your goods and services to market are as much YOUR responsibility as
any aspect of manufacturing the product. You can only blame other sources
for so long before you have to find another reason for problems. The
shipper is an easy fix, change shippers. Got a contract with that company,
you are not going to loose in a contract dispute if the shipper id damaging
goods more than the industry average. If Delta did not recognise these
facts it explains why the company has been sold, traded, and or merged so
many times in recent years.



The established process was for the distributor to file a freight
claim, return the unit, and receive another. All at Delta's cost.
Why this was not done in the case you describe is beyond me. Most
others just sent them back.

And from a business stand point that is a big problem also. I have never
heard of a shipper having to absorb freight costs because the freight
company damages its goods unless of course Delta was prepaired to eat X
amount of freight costs to get a better rate. That too obviousely back
fired. Delta should have been reimbursed or not charged for every damaged
delivery providing the receiver noted the damage at time of receipt. If
there were no obvious signs of damage, that was another warning sign missed,
improper packaging.



The broken trunion on the saw that I saw was about 6 years ago.

Frank normally I would agree. But, how is it that the brand saw that
arrives damaged is the Delta Unisaw? I read on this news group from a
respected poster that Delta later admitted that the trunions were being
improperly torqued. A DAGS should show you that comment if you are
interested.

I've tried to fiind it and asked you to verify. Last time you posted
for all to see that it was Charlie Self. If so, Charlie should
corroborate.

If you cannnot verify, I probably cannot either.

Now a respected poster may have said it, but I've told
you many times it is simply not true, so the respected poster had to
have been misled.

Charlie is still the person I am thinking about concerning the comment.

If you could lead me to the source, maybe we could
clear this up. Until then, I will continue to challenge your statement
whenever you post it.

Not a problem Frank, I respect your point of view and have nothing personal
invested in this discussion. If I were in your shoes I would probably
defend Delt a little more strongly.


I will not challenge your opinion of Delta, nor
your choice of equipment, nor any recommendation you make to others,
as long as no statements are made that I know to be not factual or not
relevant today.

This probably boils down to symantics. I am restating personal observations
and comments made by others at stores, this news groups and by a Delta rep.
You are stating Delta's observations and again Delta has seen much better
days. They certainly have not "oficially" admitted to letting a problem go
for so long and where they are today may be a direct result of this kind of
thinking and or reaction to a problem. Eventually the customers hear "Wolf"
too many times. I have seen this happen in the automotive industry to a
well respected and old car company, Oldsmobile. Like you, I had strong ties
to Oldsmobile and the service end of that business. Their arrogance
eventually sunk the ship. I cannot tell you how many times Oldsmobile
pointed fingers in the wrong direction.


As one who lived through the entire ordeal of broken trunions from
start to finish, I probably know more than anyone else about the
issue.


Regardless, if a particular brand tool is having a problem with
transportation or manufacturing, that is a QC problem and it is that
brands
problem until the problem is resolved.

You saw one six years ago. Problem was resolved shortly after that.

I had read of numerous cases prior to actually seeing one.

I wonder why whenever anyone says they might buy a Delta you bring it up
like it is a current problem.

Believe me, there are stores out there with old stock. Texas Tool Traders
had a broken Unisaw in their inventory for several months. Some of their
stock has been there for years.


Look, you can have your opinion about
what you prefer as can anyone, but it is disingenuous to continue to
post about "quality problems" or "improper torque settings" over and
over when it is not true.

While at the moment Delta may be running like a well oiled machine.... that
has not been the case in the past.
What has changed to guarantee a positive change?


Snip


I am not saying that the Unisaw is a bad choice, again I am only saying
that
the Unisaw is not what it used to be and the QC has not been up to par
with
the competition.

That (QC up to par with the competition) is your opinion and you have
a right to express it, just please don't use untruthful statements or
issues of another time that would not be relevant today to support
that opinion. I would appreciate that.

Well, I am not making any of this up and have no reason to do so. Now,
Wayne J. is also admitting that trunions would "Magically" snap when he
worked for Delta . They used to believe it was QC. No mention of blaming a
shipping company. Here is nnother reference of some one other than me that
has also heard that Delta believed it to be a QC problem.
Now I'll give you that Wayne J. for all we know may not be a real person or
know beans about Delta although he claims to have worked at Delta and until
I made the Delta QC comment was considering the Unisaw as a preferred
replacement until he saw the SawStop. He made no comment about the QC issue
up front but has admitted knowledge about the trunion failures and still is
considering the Unisaw. this all falls in place with what I have read and
been told.

His comment,

When I worked at Delta, we had two common failurs in the
older unisaws, trunions and starters. The starters we used in Canada were
prone to failure on the contact points. The trunions coould just macigally
snap. We used to believe it was QC. The later generaion ones were better.
Still my favorite, but the SawStop is getting my attention. I still have all
10 fingers, but I have had my share of scares.

So now, you have the same proof that I am not making this up and that I
along with others have just reason to make the comments about QC at Delta.
That is as good as I can do for you right now.




For a while Delta blamed the shipping
company.

For very good reason. Trunions were breaking from a specific tip over
which generally happened on shipping docks during LTL shipment.

Why were the other brand saws not being tipped over like the Deltas? Was
Delta being targeted?

Don't have a clue

I don't think they were being targeted but you have to admit, the evidence
does not look good for Delta. Now if you can provide an answer as to why
Delta Unisaws did not fair as well as other brands through the shipping
process I'll bet it will include something about QC whether it be in the
manufacturing or packaging of the product.




This went on for a few years IIRC. Why was packageing not improved to
prevent this?

It was. Package was ISTA certified (do you know what that is?) both
before the problem started and was tested a number of additional
times as the pack was modified. It never failed a truck vibration,
inclined ramp, or straight drop test as requried to be ISTA certified.
That's what caused so much delay. We couldn't figure out what was
happening until we purposely started to try to destroy them. In
essence bacame an LTL shipper to see if we could simulate the problem.

And what does that indicate? Packaging problems? Is that not a QC problem
that affected the product and the views of the customer?



QC does not stop at the factory door. Perhaps equipment
built to withstand a boat ride holds up better on the docks.

The company is responsible for the product until delivery is accepted
by the distributor and continues to be responsible for the product in
some manner for its life. The factory manufacturing quality is part
of that responsibility and had nothing to do with this problem.

In the real business world Frank, that is crap. The "company" is
responsible, period. The company makes all the choices from design to
delivery to the customer. If they make bad choices that is still their
problem. If they make good choices they benefit from that also. The
customer does not care one bit whose fault it is that the product arrives
broken. The real looser is Delta because of that way of thinking.

You can come up with all the reason as to why, the fact remains that Delta
had QC problems as far as it's customers was concerned and bottom line that
is the only important person that Delta needs to please.
Personally I don't buy the shipping excuse because it was mostly a Delta
issue.

With all due respect Frank, thank you for the opportunity to hash this out
once again. ;~) I still have the utmost respect of your openions and will
continue to value your comments. Stick to your guns, Delta needed more
people like you.

"Mike Richardson" wrote in message
...
Doug,

Deep breath in......

Your suggestions that people research before they ask a question here
is
fundamentaly flawed.

What makes you the sole arbiter of where one commences a search? Why
is
it correct that someone must search google before they use a newsgroup?
Newsgroups pre-date Google by a looong way. What makes it correct that
you
can't come here until you have been there?????

Your position is based on YOUR view of the world, and which end of the
chicken the bloody egg came out of.

My view is that there is NOTHING wrong with someone asking in a
newsgroup a question that might have been asked a million times. Go to a
pub, lean against the local bar, and ask "Who is that statue out there in
memory of?" They don't all pipe in and say "Go to the Library mate - all
the
answers you need are there, now **** off "


Well there is a refreshing different point of view that makes a lot of
sense.

"RonB" wrote in message
...

My view is that there is NOTHING wrong with someone asking in a
newsgroup..........

Amen. Actually, I though that was why we hang out in theses places.

To help and to learn.

RonB


Precicely.

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:18:29 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
.. .

Texas Tool Traders. They told me this when I was compairing a Unisaw to a
Jet. The Unisaw sat on the show room floor with a broken trunion. A
Delta
rep e-mailed me direct concerning this issue in so much that Texas Tool
traders could not repair the saw because of a trunion BO status. The rep
assured me that he would look into resolving the matter.


Not doubting what you say, however, has nothing to do with "quality
problems" at Delta. Has a lot to do with "quality" problems with LTL
shippers.

You can color the pig any color you like Frank but in the end, all the
customer saw was QC problems. It does not matter who you point the finger
at, the customer is the one that has to be convienced. Having been in the
service business all my life, out side vendors and contractors that help to
bring your goods and services to market are as much YOUR responsibility as
any aspect of manufacturing the product. You can only blame other sources
for so long before you have to find another reason for problems. The
shipper is an easy fix, change shippers. Got a contract with that company,
you are not going to loose in a contract dispute if the shipper id damaging
goods more than the industry average. If Delta did not recognise these
facts it explains why the company has been sold, traded, and or merged so
many times in recent years.



The established process was for the distributor to file a freight
claim, return the unit, and receive another. All at Delta's cost.
Why this was not done in the case you describe is beyond me. Most
others just sent them back.

And from a business stand point that is a big problem also. I have never
heard of a shipper having to absorb freight costs because the freight
company damages its goods unless of course Delta was prepaired to eat X
amount of freight costs to get a better rate. That too obviousely back
fired. Delta should have been reimbursed or not charged for every damaged
delivery providing the receiver noted the damage at time of receipt. If
there were no obvious signs of damage, that was another warning sign missed,
improper packaging.



The broken trunion on the saw that I saw was about 6 years ago.

Frank normally I would agree. But, how is it that the brand saw that
arrives damaged is the Delta Unisaw? I read on this news group from a
respected poster that Delta later admitted that the trunions were being
improperly torqued. A DAGS should show you that comment if you are
interested.

I've tried to fiind it and asked you to verify. Last time you posted
for all to see that it was Charlie Self. If so, Charlie should
corroborate.

If you cannnot verify, I probably cannot either.

Now a respected poster may have said it, but I've told
you many times it is simply not true, so the respected poster had to
have been misled.

Charlie is still the person I am thinking about concerning the comment.

If you could lead me to the source, maybe we could
clear this up. Until then, I will continue to challenge your statement
whenever you post it.

Not a problem Frank, I respect your point of view and have nothing personal
invested in this discussion. If I were in your shoes I would probably
defend Delt a little more strongly.


I will not challenge your opinion of Delta, nor
your choice of equipment, nor any recommendation you make to others,
as long as no statements are made that I know to be not factual or not
relevant today.

This probably boils down to symantics. I am restating personal observations
and comments made by others at stores, this news groups and by a Delta rep.
You are stating Delta's observations and again Delta has seen much better
days. They certainly have not "oficially" admitted to letting a problem go
for so long and where they are today may be a direct result of this kind of
thinking and or reaction to a problem. Eventually the customers hear "Wolf"
too many times. I have seen this happen in the automotive industry to a
well respected and old car company, Oldsmobile. Like you, I had strong ties
to Oldsmobile and the service end of that business. Their arrogance
eventually sunk the ship. I cannot tell you how many times Oldsmobile
pointed fingers in the wrong direction.


As one who lived through the entire ordeal of broken trunions from
start to finish, I probably know more than anyone else about the
issue.


Regardless, if a particular brand tool is having a problem with
transportation or manufacturing, that is a QC problem and it is that
brands
problem until the problem is resolved.

You saw one six years ago. Problem was resolved shortly after that.

I had read of numerous cases prior to actually seeing one.

I wonder why whenever anyone says they might buy a Delta you bring it up
like it is a current problem.

Believe me, there are stores out there with old stock. Texas Tool Traders
had a broken Unisaw in their inventory for several months. Some of their
stock has been there for years.


Look, you can have your opinion about
what you prefer as can anyone, but it is disingenuous to continue to
post about "quality problems" or "improper torque settings" over and
over when it is not true.

While at the moment Delta may be running like a well oiled machine.... that
has not been the case in the past.
What has changed to guarantee a positive change?


Snip


I am not saying that the Unisaw is a bad choice, again I am only saying
that
the Unisaw is not what it used to be and the QC has not been up to par
with
the competition.

That (QC up to par with the competition) is your opinion and you have
a right to express it, just please don't use untruthful statements or
issues of another time that would not be relevant today to support
that opinion. I would appreciate that.

Well, I am not making any of this up and have no reason to do so. Now,
Wayne J. is also admitting that trunions would "Magically" snap when he
worked for Delta . They used to believe it was QC. No mention of blaming a
shipping company. Here is nnother reference of some one other than me that
has also heard that Delta believed it to be a QC problem.
Now I'll give you that Wayne J. for all we know may not be a real person or
know beans about Delta although he claims to have worked at Delta and until
I made the Delta QC comment was considering the Unisaw as a preferred
replacement until he saw the SawStop. He made no comment about the QC issue
up front but has admitted knowledge about the trunion failures and still is
considering the Unisaw. this all falls in place with what I have read and
been told.

His comment,

When I worked at Delta, we had two common failurs in the
older unisaws, trunions and starters. The starters we used in Canada were
prone to failure on the contact points. The trunions coould just macigally
snap. We used to believe it was QC. The later generaion ones were better.
Still my favorite, but the SawStop is getting my attention. I still have all
10 fingers, but I have had my share of scares.


I'll rest on all other issues, not going to rehash, let those that are
interested make up their own minds. On the issue of Wayne J.'s
experience with Delta, I'll defer until he authenticates. Despite its
market penetration, Delta is a small company, I would probably know
him if we worked during the same time frame. If his tenure was
earlier than mine, his opinion (as an employee) on this matter would
not be relevant. I hope he responds, would be good to have another
Delta ex as a poster, particularly with Canadian experience.

However, when responding to a recommendation request, if you degrade
Delta by either offering information that is not true (trunnion
torque setting problems) or issues that are not currently relevant,
then I will respond accordingly, that is with the truth. Nothing
personal, just want the air to stay clear of clutter.

During my career with Delta, I was the Quality Manager for a time
prior to becoming the head of domestic manufacturing operations. I
and those who both preceded me and came after me in the Quality
position deserve to have the truth, good or bad and there is plenty of
both to go around, on a public forum. I'll not mention the Quality
Manager by name who was in office during the trunnion breakage time
frame, but will say that no one was more concerned or worked harder to
diagnose the cause, and respond with corrective action.

Frank




So now, you have the same proof that I am not making this up and that I
along with others have just reason to make the comments about QC at Delta.
That is as good as I can do for you right now.




For a while Delta blamed the shipping
company.

For very good reason. Trunions were breaking from a specific tip over
which generally happened on shipping docks during LTL shipment.

Why were the other brand saws not being tipped over like the Deltas? Was
Delta being targeted?

Don't have a clue

I don't think they were being targeted but you have to admit, the evidence
does not look good for Delta. Now if you can provide an answer as to why
Delta Unisaws did not fair as well as other brands through the shipping
process I'll bet it will include something about QC whether it be in the
manufacturing or packaging of the product.




This went on for a few years IIRC. Why was packageing not improved to
prevent this?

It was. Package was ISTA certified (do you know what that is?) both
before the problem started and was tested a number of additional
times as the pack was modified. It never failed a truck vibration,
inclined ramp, or straight drop test as requried to be ISTA certified.
That's what caused so much delay. We couldn't figure out what was
happening until we purposely started to try to destroy them. In
essence bacame an LTL shipper to see if we could simulate the problem.

And what does that indicate? Packaging problems? Is that not a QC problem
that affected the product and the views of the customer?



QC does not stop at the factory door. Perhaps equipment
built to withstand a boat ride holds up better on the docks.

The company is responsible for the product until delivery is accepted
by the distributor and continues to be responsible for the product in
some manner for its life. The factory manufacturing quality is part
of that responsibility and had nothing to do with this problem.

In the real business world Frank, that is crap. The "company" is
responsible, period. The company makes all the choices from design to
delivery to the customer. If they make bad choices that is still their
problem. If they make good choices they benefit from that also. The
customer does not care one bit whose fault it is that the product arrives
broken. The real looser is Delta because of that way of thinking.

You can come up with all the reason as to why, the fact remains that Delta
had QC problems as far as it's customers was concerned and bottom line that
is the only important person that Delta needs to please.
Personally I don't buy the shipping excuse because it was mostly a Delta
issue.

With all due respect Frank, thank you for the opportunity to hash this out
once again. ;~) I still have the utmost respect of your openions and will
continue to value your comments. Stick to your guns, Delta needed more
people like you.

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message

Not doubting what you say, however, has nothing to do with "quality
problems" at Delta. Has a lot to do with "quality" problems with LTL
shippers.


It has nothing to do with LTL shippers, but everything to do with inadequate
packaging or poor design. When you have damage getting a product to the
customer, you must change one or both.

I had a customer that tried to solve a very expensive breakage problem with
a $25 package when what they really needed was a 5¢ screw to hold a power
supply. This sort of thing happens all the time. Once the problem is
recognized, just fix it in the most simple manner.

In article ,
says...
Doug,

Deep breath in......

Your suggestions that people research before they ask a question here is
fundamentaly flawed.

What makes you the sole arbiter of where one commences a search?

What makes you think that I'm attempting to set myself up as "the sole
arbiter of where one commences a search"? Get a grip, Mike, all I did
was suggest that since the SawStop has already been discussed here
numerous times, he should check Google Groups to see what's already been
said.

Why is
it correct that someone must search google before they use a newsgroup?
Newsgroups pre-date Google by a looong way. What makes it correct that you
can't come here until you have been there?????

Again -- if he wants opinions on the SawStop, the easiest way of finding
them is to look at the opinions that have already been expressed.

Your position is based on YOUR view of the world, and which end of the
chicken the bloody egg came out of.

My view is that there is NOTHING wrong with someone asking in a
newsgroup a question that might have been asked a million times. Go to a
pub, lean against the local bar, and ask "Who is that statue out there in
memory of?" They don't all pipe in and say "Go to the Library mate - all the
answers you need are there, now **** off "

And where did I tell him anything even remotely like "all the answers
you need are there, now **** off"??

Relax, have a cold beer, and calm down.

In article ,
says...
I can only assume that someone who couldn't be bothered to put in a small
amount of time to get a quick answer feels that it's easier to use up
someone else's time to than use their own.

Exactly.

On Apr 21, 4:00 pm, "Wayne J." wrote:
"Wayne J." wrote in message

Man, this is a tough crowd.

Anyways, thanks everyone for your opinions. I am going to explore it, along
with Delta and a couple of others. SWMBO is getting real concerned with my
old saw, so maybe she will let me spring for a "safer" saw.

Wayne

Not a tough crowd at all. Sometimes it just seems to be a lot of
bitchy, whining housewives. They will write on an one about how
someone wastes their time, how it annoys them, and how stupid and
inconsiderate some people can be. It would have been easier (although
nowhere near as much fun) to simply write a valid response addressing
the question.

OR BETER YET, IGNORE THE QUESTIONS ALTOGETHER. That maybe a little
more neanderthal man than renaissance, so that could be the problem
here.

Example: SO says, "you know what happened today? One of the girls
asked me this question today that I have answered a million times. I
swear to God if she asks me one more time I will ****ing scream!"

Neaderthal response (me): Uh - huh.

That't it. Sad, huh?

Renaissance man: OMG... I can't believe she asked that again! You
would think that as many times as we have gone over that she would
have picked it up, of no other way than osmosis! That is so
stupid.... she is so stupid.... OMG.... doesn't she realize how much
time she wastes when she does that? Why in my case, being the kind
of self reliant person I am, I never ask any questions on a whim!
Never... in fact (just add another 20 minutes of pointless bitching
here, the relelvance and value understood only between renaissance men
and typical women).

This is a public forum, a like all kinds of other breaches of accepted
protocol some see or experience in public, no need to freak out. Do
what most do best - turn around and walk away.

To me, the question has to be asked: Why is ignoring a post you find
distasteful so difficult?

I understand that many feel that even though a public forum, it should
be run the way THEY want it, the RIGHT way, although some masquerade
as it simply being an attempt to show consideration for all. That
kind of pointless badgering and meaness makes some of the more petty
folks feel important. And maybe even like their opinion counts
somewhere if they see it in writing.

I say post away with all questions big and small, important and dumb,
and hope that one day people will learn which ones to respond to after
reading. The helpful guys will do one of two things: provide some
advice, or put the OP in the right direction by giving them some hints
on where to find pertinent information.

Now the others in a way are more entertaining to me. They respond with
the classic "why when I did that I did this or that, or looked here or
there" and obviously are quite proud of themselves for figuring that
out. But sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes it comes off as
"hey, I'm so GD stoopid I figured out how to do it, so surely you
can do the same".

Fun group.

Get on with some more ass kickin'.

Robert

Doug,

Mate, I am relaxed. I went to some length to mention a number of times
my respect for the group and posters - and I did not intend at all that you
take my blathering as a personal attack. It was an attack of the concept.
I unreservedly apologise if it came across otherwise.

Mike

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,
says...
Doug,

Deep breath in......

Your suggestions that people research before they ask a question here
is
fundamentaly flawed.

What makes you the sole arbiter of where one commences a search?

What makes you think that I'm attempting to set myself up as "the sole
arbiter of where one commences a search"? Get a grip, Mike, all I did
was suggest that since the SawStop has already been discussed here
numerous times, he should check Google Groups to see what's already been
said.

Why is
it correct that someone must search google before they use a newsgroup?
Newsgroups pre-date Google by a looong way. What makes it correct that
you
can't come here until you have been there?????

Again -- if he wants opinions on the SawStop, the easiest way of finding
them is to look at the opinions that have already been expressed.

Your position is based on YOUR view of the world, and which end of
the
chicken the bloody egg came out of.

My view is that there is NOTHING wrong with someone asking in a
newsgroup a question that might have been asked a million times. Go to a
pub, lean against the local bar, and ask "Who is that statue out there in
memory of?" They don't all pipe in and say "Go to the Library mate - all
the
answers you need are there, now **** off "

And where did I tell him anything even remotely like "all the answers
you need are there, now **** off"??

Relax, have a cold beer, and calm down.

In article , "Mike Richardson" wrote:
Doug,

Mate, I am relaxed. I went to some length to mention a number of times
my respect for the group and posters - and I did not intend at all that you
take my blathering as a personal attack. It was an attack of the concept.
I unreservedly apologise if it came across otherwise.

Mike

Thanks, Mike, no prob. If you're ever in the States, and passing through
Indianapolis, look me up.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
...
Wayne J. wrote:

9" Rockwell 6201B (made in Guelph Ontario, circa 1975). Good saw. Came
with
two extensions and round fence rails . The rails had the ability to be
placed so that the extensions were all on one side or one on each side of
the blade. Putting them all the way to the right gives you a 48" rip
setting. It was the only saw up here that did that other then the Unisaw
back then.

That's relatively new Wayne. Did you see my post about the Delta 1160 I
bought at an estate sale?

--
It's turtles, all the way down

Nope, probably while I was gone. I don't know if I have ever seen one. I am
thinking hard, but that rally hurts. I am going to go look through my old
manuals.

A lot of US saws were never sold in Canada as we had our own foundry in
Guelph. Our models were usually the same.

I am doing a search on the web for some pictures to jog my memory.

I love the old tools. It is nice to rebuild one and show it off later.

wayne

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 21, 4:00 pm, "Wayne J." wrote:
"Wayne J." wrote in message

Man, this is a tough crowd.

Anyways, thanks everyone for your opinions. I am going to explore it,
along
with Delta and a couple of others. SWMBO is getting real concerned with
my
old saw, so maybe she will let me spring for a "safer" saw.

Wayne

Not a tough crowd at all. Sometimes it just seems to be a lot of
bitchy, whining housewives. They will write on an one about how
someone wastes their time, how it annoys them, and how stupid and
inconsiderate some people can be. It would have been easier (although
nowhere near as much fun) to simply write a valid response addressing
the question.

OR BETER YET, IGNORE THE QUESTIONS ALTOGETHER. That maybe a little
more neanderthal man than renaissance, so that could be the problem
here.

Example: SO says, "you know what happened today? One of the girls
asked me this question today that I have answered a million times. I
swear to God if she asks me one more time I will ****ing scream!"

Neaderthal response (me): Uh - huh.

That't it. Sad, huh?

Renaissance man: OMG... I can't believe she asked that again! You
would think that as many times as we have gone over that she would
have picked it up, of no other way than osmosis! That is so
stupid.... she is so stupid.... OMG.... doesn't she realize how much
time she wastes when she does that? Why in my case, being the kind
of self reliant person I am, I never ask any questions on a whim!
Never... in fact (just add another 20 minutes of pointless bitching
here, the relelvance and value understood only between renaissance men
and typical women).

This is a public forum, a like all kinds of other breaches of accepted
protocol some see or experience in public, no need to freak out. Do
what most do best - turn around and walk away.

To me, the question has to be asked: Why is ignoring a post you find
distasteful so difficult?

I understand that many feel that even though a public forum, it should
be run the way THEY want it, the RIGHT way, although some masquerade
as it simply being an attempt to show consideration for all. That
kind of pointless badgering and meaness makes some of the more petty
folks feel important. And maybe even like their opinion counts
somewhere if they see it in writing.

I say post away with all questions big and small, important and dumb,
and hope that one day people will learn which ones to respond to after
reading. The helpful guys will do one of two things: provide some
advice, or put the OP in the right direction by giving them some hints
on where to find pertinent information.

Now the others in a way are more entertaining to me. They respond with
the classic "why when I did that I did this or that, or looked here or
there" and obviously are quite proud of themselves for figuring that
out. But sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes it comes off as
"hey, I'm so GD stoopid I figured out how to do it, so surely you
can do the same".

Fun group.

Get on with some more ass kickin'.

Robert

Thanks. Good davice . I wish I could have thought of that answer.

take care
wayne

On Apr 21, 7:29 am, Han wrote:
"Wayne J." wrote innews:q4nWh.111119$aG1.88833@pd7urf3no:

why can't a person just ask a question and not get a civil answer?

Like I have posted above, I have researched this and I am asking for
some genuine opinions. If you don't have one, then don't asnwer.

I am very sorry I cam back to this group.

thank you
wayne

The subject has been discussed to death.
What I got from all the opinions is that the Sawstop company would like to
make their patented technology obligatory in the name of safety. They
could not persuade nor legislate that. So they decided to make their own
machine. Apparently it is generally well made, does what it advertizes,
but is expensive. You do the cost-benefit analysis.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Apparently it is generally well made, does what it advertizes,
but is expensive. You do the cost-benefit analysis.


Depends....what does a hand cost these days?

People are always willing to pay more for safety features AFTER the
accident.

TMT