"M Berger" wrote in message
...
Why is it a big deal? Thousands of companies try to get their
products approved and mandated by the government. Maybe someone
working on the campaign lost a limb and didn't want to see that
happen to others.

If the technology were mandated, think of how fast the price would
drop. That would benefit everybody.


I have heard that SawStop is even going to charge for their products and the
dealers will collect sales tax. Damn them. They are doing every thing so
legal. I bet they even have a patent on their technology. They don't fight
fair. Damn... ;~)

alan wrote:
cons.....although it has been stopped twice because of friction and metal
tape near blade while the lights where not aligned @ $300 to $500 each time


Hmm cartridge is 60 bucks plus new blade. Metal tape near blade??


or so they tell us. also blade guard is a bit flimsy and has caused the saw
to be tagged 3 times (shut down for repair).also for our cabinet shop, it is
used 80% to cut plywood, it doesn't have the power ,(maybe belts are
slipping

Umm I think someone needs to check the set up smallest motor is 3hp

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 09:27:01 -0600, M Berger wrote:

Why is it a big deal? Thousands of companies try to get their
products approved and mandated by the government.

"Approved" for Federal purchase is fine. "Mandated" for products not sold
to the government is not.

Maybe someone
working on the campaign lost a limb and didn't want to see that happen
to others.

If the technology were mandated, think of how fast the price would drop.
That would benefit everybody.

What makes you think the price would drop? If it was mandated and nobody
could circumvent Sawstop's patents then they could charge whatever they
wanted to for it.

Doug Miller wrote:

It's *completely* true. Again, do a Google Groups search -- this was
discussed in great detail here about two years ago. SawStop *did* in
fact petition the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, requesting
that their proprietary technology become mandated, and there was a post
here that referenced the CPSC filing. This is not a wild
unsubstantiated figment of someone's imagination. It's a fact.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:22:47 +0000, Leon wrote:

"M Berger" wrote in message
...
Even if they had no injuries prior, I'll bet they're saving
a significant amount on insurance.


And promoting customer Good Will.

I'm sorry, but how does using a Sawstop saw promote customer good will?
Most customers neither know nor care what kind of tools you use as long as
you can do the work.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 08:41:05 +0000, Brian Henderson wrote:

On 26 Nov 2006 16:35:34 -0800, "Robatoy" wrote:

One accident that may have been prevented by the SawStop, will not
change the odds for an accident elsewhere in the shop. In fact, I think
that unit may build a false sense of safety which may be carried over
to the shaper (really should have a power feeder), drill press and
radial arm saw..or a jointer.. now there's nasty piece of gear. I DO
want a guard on that. (You don't sew a part-finger back on after a
jointer takes it off.)

Oh yes, once that jointer gets through, your finger is going to be
thinly sliced and spread over a wide area. But what's next? Do they
start making JointerStop and DrillPressStop?

Actually, if I recall correctly their intention was to have one of their
stops on just about every power tool in the shop, not just the table saw.

Hey, why not go for
HammerStop so you don't hit your thumb?

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On 27 Nov 2006 17:30:16 GMT, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:22:47 +0000, Leon wrote:

"M Berger" wrote in message
...
Even if they had no injuries prior, I'll bet they're saving
a significant amount on insurance.


And promoting customer Good Will.

I'm sorry, but how does using a Sawstop saw promote customer good will?
Most customers neither know nor care what kind of tools you use as long as
you can do the work.


The subject business is Lee Valley, whose customers will be the ones
using the saws. Personally I'd rather this thread contained more fact
and less speculation, but at least that's the reason for what you see
above.


--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/

Leon wrote:
"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...



Oh yes, once that jointer gets through, your finger is going to be
thinly sliced and spread over a wide area. But what's next? Do they
start making JointerStop and DrillPressStop? Hey, why not go for
HammerStop so you don't hit your thumb?


No they are going straight to the IdiotStop. It will read your mind and
stop you from going near any machinery that you are overly confident about
using.

I will e-mail you my address, so you can send me a new keyboard.
You just couldn't wait till I finished with my coffee, huh?

r



I am envisioning one of those boxing gloves on the end of an
articulated accordion style expandable arm, like the ones which punch
out cartoon characters. Install it at the shop door. Upon entering, it
will ask a series of questions. The second it detects attitude, it
punches you in the face and slams the door shut. IdiotStop... I think
you've got something there. *still laughing*

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
Nothing more than that. Do you buy a second set of tires for your car in
anticipation of a tire failure?

Not a second set, just a spare tire on hand like most people. Consider that
a flat tire effectively disables your car for anything approaching proper
driving, then one can directly compare it to the SawStop. It makes perfect
sense, especially for a business to have a spare cartridge on hand. Not
cartridges as in tires, but at least one cartridge as in a single spare
tire.

Consider the $3,000 cost for this saw and that many people will have bought
it primarily for its safety features. 2% of that amount for a spare
cartridge to maintain production sounds completely reasonable to me.

"Rob Lee" wrote in message

We do keep a spare cartridge on hand though

Are most of your SawStops in the same location or are they various
locations? Would I be correct in assuming that every location with a SawStop
has at least one cartridge on hand?

.maybe the likelihood of misfire goes up if you don't?

Murphy's Law?

In article cntah.17228$uj6.15866@edtnps89, "ks" wrote:
How does the SawStop prevent *kickback* ?? The whole point of the device
is to
prevent *amputations*.


Two words:
Riving Knife

That's not part of the SawStop technology, though, nor is it in any way unique
to that brand.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "__ Bob __" wrote:
CW wrote:

The more you study the dynamics of a kickback and it's associated
perils, the more sense the SAWSTOP makes. Used correctly, it will
almost eliminate the possibility of a kickback, and the blade brake WILL
protect you in the event you do something stupid and cause one anyway.


So, the brake device fires when it detects a possible kickback situation?
That's news to me. Please explain how it does that and how it differentiates
a normal cut from a possible kickback situation.



WHERE did I ever make THAT statement ?? ?? ??

He quoted your statement above -- duh. That's what I was taking issue with,
too -- your claim that the blade brake will protect you in the event of a
kickback.

The riving knife prevents kickbacks .. the brake helps you stay intact
IF you fail to use it. Sheesh !! !! !!

And what does that have to do with the blade brake?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article cntah.17228$uj6.15866@edtnps89, "ks" wrote:

How does the SawStop prevent *kickback* ?? The whole point of the device
is to prevent *amputations*.

Two words:
Riving Knife

That's not part of the SawStop technology, though, nor is it in any way unique
to that brand.

True. But it's relatively rare in american saws. The PM2000 and Laguna
saws are the only other ones I know of.

Chris

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaomG4adRvHY

Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

In article , J. Clarke
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:22:47 +0000, Leon wrote:

"M Berger" wrote in message
...
Even if they had no injuries prior, I'll bet they're saving
a significant amount on insurance.


And promoting customer Good Will.

I'm sorry, but how does using a Sawstop saw promote customer good will?
Most customers neither know nor care what kind of tools you use as long as
you can do the work.

Lee Valley offers seminars for customers in their workshops.

In article ,
Chuck Taylor wrote:

snip

Personally I'd rather this thread contained more fact
and less speculation



More fact! Less speculation! Are you trying to kill usenet?

PDX David :-)

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
Nothing more than that. Do you buy a second set of tires for your car
in
anticipation of a tire failure?

Not a second set, just a spare tire on hand like most people. Consider
that
a flat tire effectively disables your car for anything approaching proper
driving, then one can directly compare it to the SawStop. It makes perfect
sense, especially for a business to have a spare cartridge on hand. Not
cartridges as in tires, but at least one cartridge as in a single spare
tire.

Consider the $3,000 cost for this saw and that many people will have
bought
it primarily for its safety features. 2% of that amount for a spare
cartridge to maintain production sounds completely reasonable to me.



I need to bring a center back to my point. I sort of wandered off with the
set of tires thing. My only point is that *if* there is a problem with
misfires, which is the impression that I have come away from this thread
with, then it should not be incumbent upon the relatively few consumers to
shoulder the cost of spare inventory as the manufacturer works out the
kinks. Inventory in this scenario would be an ongoing purchase requirement,
if I understand the issue correctly.

--

-Mike-

Tom Watson wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaomG4adRvHY



They suggested the Oregon inventor was using a safety issue to profiteer.


No WAY! He's a lawyer fighting for the common man.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 04:34:06 -0500, "Upscale"
wrote:

How is it that you're so perfect and have never ever hurt yourself? Can I
have some of that dope you're smoking? I'd like to feel omnipotent too.

You know, it's sad that some people are so flawed that they take
offense to others who actually know how to be careful. Sorry Upscale,
not everyone is a clumsy dip**** like you.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:44:43 -0500, "Upscale"
wrote:

Not a second set, just a spare tire on hand like most people. Consider that
a flat tire effectively disables your car for anything approaching proper
driving, then one can directly compare it to the SawStop. It makes perfect
sense, especially for a business to have a spare cartridge on hand. Not
cartridges as in tires, but at least one cartridge as in a single spare
tire.

That would work unless you have multiple faulty trips of the
cartridge, just like I did a couple years ago with tires. I blew *3*
brand new tires in a week, all on different wheels, because the batch
was apparently faulty. They replaced them all, free of charge, plus
reimbursed me for the towing costs.

These things do happen in the real world, you know.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:25:13 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

I guess you have your TS chained sown so that it will not chase you down
and cause you bodily harm.

It barks at me from time to time, but it's generally well behaved.

In article , Brian Henderson wrote:

That would work unless you have multiple faulty trips of the
cartridge, just like I did a couple years ago with tires. I blew *3*
brand new tires in a week, all on different wheels, because the batch
was apparently faulty. They replaced them all, free of charge, plus
reimbursed me for the towing costs.

These things do happen in the real world, you know.

Yes, they do, and you're not the only one to have that particular misfortune.
When I was about ten years old, we had a family vacation get off to a very bad
start due to an apparently bad batch of tires that Dad had bought the week
before. (Seemed like a good idea at the time, of course -- two-week trip
coming up, tires are getting old, looks like a good time for new ones, right?)
We had a tread separation and blowout... stopped and changed the tire, and
continued down the highway, hoping to find a dealer in the next city who would
replace the bad tire under warranty. Got about three miles down the road, and
BANG! there went another one. No spare this time, of course. :-( Thank
goodness for AAA.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Yes, Robin Lee being one of them.

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Didn't one or a couple of earlier posters who own the saw post about
misfires?

--

-Mike-

"Leon" wrote in
news

I have heard that SawStop is even going to charge for their products
and the dealers will collect sales tax. Damn them. They are doing
every thing so legal. I bet they even have a patent on their
technology. They don't fight fair. Damn... ;~)



After all is said and done; how do you like your Sawstop? Have you had any
false triggers etc.? Does it perform (in your opinion) as a $3K saw should?
Thanks,
Hank

Tom Watson wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaomG4adRvHY

Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
Interesting. 55,000 injuries (reported) per year yet the CPSC is clearly
playing regulatory politics.

That would change in an afternoon if the head of that organization could
be coaxed into standing on the infeed side of a table saw for a couple
of hours.

Even once the regulatory wheels begin to turn it will take YEARS before
saw manufacturers would have to comply with tighter standards. Research.
Public debate. Draft Standards. Phase-In. Then, eventually, POSSIBLE
enforcement.

Ten years of toe dragging will add up to another half-million or so
(reported) injuries. And who knows how many unreported ones where the
victim couldn't afford medical care so no record was ever made of the
injury.

And that woman doesn't even want to begin the toe-dragging part?

Bill



--
Life is like playing a violin in public and learning the instrument as
one goes on.
Samuel Butler (1835 - 1902)

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message

You know, it's sad that some people are so flawed that they take
offense to others who actually know how to be careful. Sorry Upscale,
not everyone is a clumsy dip**** like you.

You misunderstand. I'm not taking offence at you knowing how to be careful.
I'm ridiculing you for thinking that it's impossible for you to have an
accident of some type and getting hurt. It means that it will happen to you,
sooner than later.

Normally, I wouldn't like to see anyone hurt, but in your case when it
happens to you, it will be most appropriate. And when it comes to perfection
and never making an error, the only perfection you seem to have obtained is
that of being the perfect asshole.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:26:25 -0500, Tom Watson
wrote:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaomG4adRvHY

Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/


An excellent read.
Hopefully this will quell the baseless ranting of a few.

Tom Watson wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaomG4adRvHY

Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
Posting early with no caffeine yet, be gentle.

Interesting, she says the saw stops in 3/1000 of a second yet their main
page http://sawstop.com/ only promises 5/1000 of a second. Minor but
not out of line for a reporter listed as 'a regulatory columnist '
rather than a woodworking writer. The overview page does mention 3 -
5/1000 so she's going with the 'better' number:-) Maybe she's done other
technical articles but I didn't see an immediate link to her past work.
Searching by her last name shows an interesting array of articles over
the past few months.
I didn't notice her mentioning hot Sawstop tried to force legislation
that would make their method the only one allowed, which is what started
the 'Buzz Saw of Opposition'. We'd all (well, mostly all so don't jump
down my throat for this) appreciate keeping all 10 fingers, but aren't
interested in the government 'helping' us by forcing it down our throat.
I for one would like to know how effective it would be just to drop the
blade below the table without the braking device that destructively
stops the blade. The additional mass that would have to be added to let
the saw survive that without requiring realignment, (it doesn't require
realignment does it?) would be a plus.
They don't mention it and neither does the writer but I seem to recall
someone here mentioning a show where the demonstrator took a full swing
at the running blade with a large salami and received only a minor cut
in the salami.
Joe

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:52:23 -0800, Jane & David
wrote:

In article ,
Chuck Taylor wrote:

snip

Personally I'd rather this thread contained more fact
and less speculation



More fact! Less speculation! Are you trying to kill usenet?


Well, not any more, now that you've let the pushstick out of the bag.
Sheesh. Thanks a lot, pal.


:-)



--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/

"Upscale" wrote in message
...


You misunderstand. I'm not taking offence at you knowing how to be
careful.
I'm ridiculing you for thinking that it's impossible for you to have an
accident of some type and getting hurt. It means that it will happen to
you,
sooner than later.

This is the aspect of these conversations that makes them so annoying. You
are flat out wrong with this assertion. The field of woodworking is
populated with more people who successfully made it through lifetimes of
using tools without the dreaded injuries that you so adamantly promise.
Safety is necessary - no one yet has suggested otherwise, but not every
device out there is absolutely necessary to ensure against an inevitable
incident. Sorry - contend all that you want but historical numbers are just
simply against you. It is when you make ludicrous assertions like this that
you do set yourself up for critical comment. Neither Brian nor anyone else
has ever once suggested that it is impossible for them to have an accident
of some type. This type of hyperbole does nothing to further your argument.


Normally, I wouldn't like to see anyone hurt, but in your case when it
happens to you, it will be most appropriate. And when it comes to
perfection
and never making an error, the only perfection you seem to have obtained
is
that of being the perfect asshole.



There you go again...

--

-Mike-

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 02:11:49 -0500, Bill in Detroit wrote:

Tom Watson wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaomG4adRvHY

Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
Interesting. 55,000 injuries (reported) per year yet the CPSC is clearly
playing regulatory politics.

That would change in an afternoon if the head of that organization could
be coaxed into standing on the infeed side of a table saw for a couple
of hours.

Yeah, she might change from "toe-dragging" to "cold day in Hell".

In any case, worksite safety is OSHA's turf, not CPSC.

Even once the regulatory wheels begin to turn it will take YEARS before
saw manufacturers would have to comply with tighter standards. Research.
Public debate. Draft Standards. Phase-In. Then, eventually, POSSIBLE
enforcement.

Ten years of toe dragging will add up to another half-million or so
(reported) injuries.

Most of which are minor, and many of which Sawstop would have done nothing
to prevent (banged head on table while crouched under wing of saw, dropped
saw on foot, got splinter in eye, etc--read the incident reports, don't
just accept that they were all incidents of somebody cutting his finger
off).

And who knows how many unreported ones where the
victim couldn't afford medical care so no record was ever made of the
injury.

And that woman doesn't even want to begin the toe-dragging part?

Good for her.

Personally I don't want to live in a world where the only table saws
available are monsters that take a crew or a forklift to move them and
cost several thousand dollars. The Sawstop saw is a heavy machine and it
took two iterations before they brought it to market--perhaps you should
ask yourself why--was it because they wanted to sell something equivalent
to a Unisaw or was it that the first time around the cheaper, lighter saw
self-destructed the third time the cartridge fired?

Has Sawstop _ever_ demonstrated it on a 400 buck jobsite saw? If not
perhaps you should ask why.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 02:11:49 -0500, Bill in Detroit
wrote:

Tom Watson wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaomG4adRvHY

Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
Interesting. 55,000 injuries (reported) per year yet the CPSC is clearly
playing regulatory politics.

I read "an estimated" not reported. I discounted the article and
stopped reading at that point. Did I not read far enough?

Estimated? By whom?

Frank
That would change in an afternoon if the head of that organization could
be coaxed into standing on the infeed side of a table saw for a couple
of hours.

Even once the regulatory wheels begin to turn it will take YEARS before
saw manufacturers would have to comply with tighter standards. Research.
Public debate. Draft Standards. Phase-In. Then, eventually, POSSIBLE
enforcement.

Ten years of toe dragging will add up to another half-million or so
(reported) injuries. And who knows how many unreported ones where the
victim couldn't afford medical care so no record was ever made of the
injury.

And that woman doesn't even want to begin the toe-dragging part?

Bill

"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote in message

snip


If I may ask prior to your adoption of sawstops what was your Tablesaw
injury rate? Any rough approximation would suffice.....

Incidentally recently(a week or so) the Mrs. asked me what I wanted for my
birthday and I presented her with a Lee Valley wish list.....she obliged
and in less than a week the order showed up upon my doorstep....complete,
nice stuff, well packed and timely....thanks Rod


Hi Rod -

Only one, that I know of...no lost work, but took two fingertips. This was a
guy with decades of experience too...

Bigger issue for us is having people remove guards. No matter what your
policy is, or how you train people, get caught with a missing guard, and
it's very uncool...

The issue for us is really that we're large enough (say 1000 people) and
have 13 - 14 saws in use that an accident starts to be likely....

The only accident rate I'm interested in is zero.

Cheers -

Rob

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Rob Lee" wrote in message

We do keep a spare cartridge on hand though

Are most of your SawStops in the same location or are they various
locations? Would I be correct in assuming that every location with a
SawStop
has at least one cartridge on hand?

.maybe the likelihood of misfire goes up if you don't?

Murphy's Law?

Hi -

They're pretty much in every store (or will be) - we started replacing them
at the rate of 1 per month, and will continue until we've replaced them all.
I think every address has a spare cartridge, not necessarily every saw...

Cheers -

Rob

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

This is the aspect of these conversations that makes them so annoying.
You
are flat out wrong with this assertion. The field of woodworking is
populated with more people who successfully made it through lifetimes of
using tools without the dreaded injuries that you so adamantly promise.

And you misunderstand completely what I'm saying. Brian is contending that
he can't have any type of accident because he's too careful. Sorry, but life
just doesn't work that way. Sure, someone being careful will definitely
minimize the chances of something untoward happening. But, accidents do
happen, even to the most careful person. Why do you think they're called
accidents? It's unintentional, but it does happen. It's sheer arrogance (and
essentially a really stupid statement) to say otherwise.

that of being the perfect asshole.
There you go again...

Hey, he calls me a dip****, I feel perfectly entitled to respond in kind.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:51:47 -0500, "Rob Lee"
wrote:


"Upscale" wrote in message
. ..

snip
If you're really interested in information on the SawStop in actual use
and
the amount of activations, I'd suggest you query Robin Lee of Lee Valley
Tools. Most if not all of the saws within Lee Valley Tools have been
replaced with SawStops. I think LV has in excess of a dozen saws. I don't
know if he will respond, but Robin should be able to give you an honest
evaluation of LV's experience with activations, faulty or otherwise.


Good saw, well made.

Have had no misfires, or injuries, and planning to keep it that way.

We do keep a spare cartridge on hand though...maybe the likelihood of
misfire goes up if you don't?

We do not use dado sets anymore - so no experience there....

Cheers -

Rob

Being a commercial user with a number of units at different locations,
I assume that you did some sort of internal evaluation of the
probability of this company staying in business for a reasonably long
period of time to provide parts and service. However, it seems to me
that absent some sort of significant penetration into the other saw
manufacturers, either voluntarily or by gov't force, (or via a
merger/buyout) that Sawstop will find it difficult to stay in
business. I don't know of any other tool manufacturer that can stay in
business selling only a single (very high end) model of tablesaw and
no other tools of any sort. The fact that the saw is in a price range
that can't possibly generate a mass market (as mass markets are
defined in a current consumer oriented world) can't help the old cash
flow out either. I kind of see the current saw as a means of proving
the technology both to other saw manufactureres and to government
regulators more than as an actual going concern business product - but
hey, I am not anywhere near in the market for a $3,000 saw that
wouldn't fit in my shop and I know thjat even if mandated it can't be
retrofitted to my Shopsmith, so I really have no dog in this fight.

Dave Hall

"Dave Hall" wrote in message

Being a commercial user with a number of units at different locations,
I assume that you did some sort of internal evaluation of the
probability of this company staying in business for a reasonably long
period of time to provide parts and service.

Are you a commercial user with injury insurance? If so, what are you going
to do if your insurance company refuses to insure you unless you buy one? Or
at the very least, what will you do if your premiums are greatly increased
unless you buy one?

Aside from the moral aspects of using a SawStop which goes a long way to
preventing the loss of fingers, I believe Lee Valley adopted SawStops mainly
for insurance reasons. If it costs a business money *not* to use a SawStop,
then there's only two solutions and that's either to buy or go into a
different line of business.

This is not an attack of any sort, just an observation with limited choices
for choosing a business direction.

I think it was Joe Gorman who stated:

Tom Watson wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaomG4adRvHY

Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
Posting early with no caffeine yet, be gentle.

Interesting, she says the saw stops in 3/1000 of a second yet their main
page http://sawstop.com/ only promises 5/1000 of a second. Minor but

MEGO . . . .

-D
--
"What do *you* care what other people think?" --Arline Feynman

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 03:59:41 -0500, "Upscale"
wrote:

You misunderstand. I'm not taking offence at you knowing how to be careful.
I'm ridiculing you for thinking that it's impossible for you to have an
accident of some type and getting hurt. It means that it will happen to you,
sooner than later.

I never said it was impossible. Anything is possible. I'm saying
that I'm careful enough that I don't have to worry about being
seriously injured because I think ahead and don't make risky moves.
It's funny, just about all the old woodworkers I know who have been
doing this all their lives and still have never been seriously injured
would laugh at you. Sure, it'll happen to them sooner or later, I
guess it just means much, much, much, much later in their case.

In article , Brian Henderson wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 03:59:41 -0500, "Upscale"
wrote:

You misunderstand. I'm not taking offence at you knowing how to be careful.
I'm ridiculing you for thinking that it's impossible for you to have an
accident of some type and getting hurt. It means that it will happen to you,
sooner than later.

I never said it was impossible.

Then what did you mean when you wrote " In fact, I can pretty much guarantee
I'd never trip the SS, at least not the way it's supposed to be tripped." ?

Anything is possible. I'm saying
that I'm careful enough that I don't have to worry about being
seriously injured because I think ahead and don't make risky moves.

You may be right. I hope you are. But have you considered the consequences if
you are not?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:30:05 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

This is the aspect of these conversations that makes them so annoying. You
are flat out wrong with this assertion. The field of woodworking is
populated with more people who successfully made it through lifetimes of
using tools without the dreaded injuries that you so adamantly promise.

Exactly. The overwhelming majority of woodworkers make it through
life without losing a limb. Do we get scraped up, bang our fingers
with hammers, get cut, bruised and bandaged? Of course, most of us
do, but most of us never cut anything off of ourselves accidentally,
especially those of us who actually know how to be careful, know what
our tools can do and know how to take precautions to dramatically
lessen the possibility of personal injury.

Safety is necessary - no one yet has suggested otherwise, but not every
device out there is absolutely necessary to ensure against an inevitable
incident. Sorry - contend all that you want but historical numbers are just
simply against you. It is when you make ludicrous assertions like this that
you do set yourself up for critical comment. Neither Brian nor anyone else
has ever once suggested that it is impossible for them to have an accident
of some type. This type of hyperbole does nothing to further your argument.

Some people want everyone else to take care of them, they're afraid of
having personal responsibility for their own health, safety and
wellbeing. Unfortunately, these people usually are the ones who want
to mandate that everyone else do what they want as well. SawStop, as
a company, is one of those groups and their apologists largely are as
well. I've never said that the saw isn't well made, but for what I'd
ever need, it's just not worth the pricetag and their faulty stopping
technology just isn't necessary in my shop. I'll go on for another 40
years of woodworking without serious injury, without having some nanny
company tell me I have to pay them to take care of me.