"RonB" wrote in message
...
Those that think that they are immune are typically the most likely to
get hurt. Until you realize that you do not have total control you
are kinda going in blind.

Absolutely correct! I made a stupid assumption that when you turn the
switch off the TS blade stops. Walked away, realized I had left a cutoff
sitting on the tabletop. Over-reached the blade and ^%#&$.

I kinda had the same situation. The saw had been turned off and I lost 1/2
my thumb. Accidents and lapse of judgment are can happen to anyone. I was
one of those silly people that thought that after 12 years of serious
woodworking that it could not happen to meeeee. Now after about 30 years I
realize more and more the possibilities.
And a guard would not have prevented my accident although I still do not use
one. Guards so not cover ever scenario.

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
...snipped...
He tried to get laws passed that would require his device on all saws.
The government told him to go to Hell.


If he had hired Jack Abramhoff all new saws would be using it now.
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:02:10 -0600, ()
wrote:


If he had hired Jack Abramhoff all new saws would be using it now.

If he'd hired Jack Abramhoff, all of the federal prison system
wooddorking shops would have one now.



Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

On Nov 26, 5:40 pm, "Leon" wrote:
[schnipfered]

And a guard would not have prevented my accident although I still do not use one.

You get better results by flicking the lever to "single shot" from
"automatic". Holds true when firing a machine gun. One shot on target,
as opposed to 30 misses.
What does that have to do with woodworking?
If every action is treated like THAT one will be the one that will hurt
you, then the utmost care in execution will be exercised. It's about
never letting your guard down. It is about eye-contact, when coming
close to a sawblade, or the asshole in the oncoming car who has his
blinker out but doesn't make the turn...eye-contact stops accidents. I
want to think about each movement. I do not want to become careless,
because some (SawStop)machine/guard is supposed to protect me. I want
to see the blade that can hurt me.

One accident that may have been prevented by the SawStop, will not
change the odds for an accident elsewhere in the shop. In fact, I think
that unit may build a false sense of safety which may be carried over
to the shaper (really should have a power feeder), drill press and
radial arm saw..or a jointer.. now there's nasty piece of gear. I DO
want a guard on that. (You don't sew a part-finger back on after a
jointer takes it off.)


r

"Robatoy" wrote in message
oups.com...


On Nov 26, 5:40 pm, "Leon" wrote:
[schnipfered]

And a guard would not have prevented my accident although I still do not
use one.

You get better results by flicking the lever to "single shot" from
"automatic". Holds true when firing a machine gun. One shot on target,
as opposed to 30 misses.
What does that have to do with woodworking?
If every action is treated like THAT one will be the one that will hurt
you, then the utmost care in execution will be exercised. It's about
never letting your guard down. It is about eye-contact, when coming
close to a sawblade, or the asshole in the oncoming car who has his
blinker out but doesn't make the turn...eye-contact stops accidents. I
want to think about each movement. I do not want to become careless,
because some (SawStop)machine/guard is supposed to protect me. I want
to see the blade that can hurt me.

Agreed. Unfortunately a guard can lead to the same false since of security.
I too prefer to see the blade. Being alert is key but after a long day
alertness can diminish.

On 26 Nov 2006 16:35:34 -0800, "Robatoy" wrote:



On Nov 26, 5:40 pm, "Leon" wrote:
[schnipfered]

And a guard would not have prevented my accident although I still do not use one.

You get better results by flicking the lever to "single shot" from
"automatic". Holds true when firing a machine gun. One shot on target,
as opposed to 30 misses.
What does that have to do with woodworking?
If every action is treated like THAT one will be the one that will hurt
you, then the utmost care in execution will be exercised. It's about
never letting your guard down. It is about eye-contact, when coming
close to a sawblade, or the asshole in the oncoming car who has his
blinker out but doesn't make the turn...eye-contact stops accidents. I
want to think about each movement. I do not want to become careless,
because some (SawStop)machine/guard is supposed to protect me. I want
to see the blade that can hurt me.

One accident that may have been prevented by the SawStop, will not
change the odds for an accident elsewhere in the shop. In fact, I think
that unit may build a false sense of safety which may be carried over
to the shaper (really should have a power feeder), drill press and
radial arm saw..or a jointer.. now there's nasty piece of gear. I DO
want a guard on that. (You don't sew a part-finger back on after a
jointer takes it off.)


r

Gotta Witness!

Absolutely Freakin' Amen, Robbie!

That was exactly my point in the previous threads about this weiner
wacking wonder. (Did they test them on Nathan's Kosher All Beef?)

There is a damned fine book by David Pye called, The Nature And Art Of
Workmanship, that delineates craftsman made products as being made
under the rubric of The Workmanship Of Risk, and production made
products as being made under that of, The Workmanship Of Certainty.

Pye was actually talking about the methods used in the small shop v.
those used in production, and their result in the arena of design, but
he may as well have been talking about the level of risk in one shop
v. another.

The only employee that I ever had get hurt did it on the jointer.

I'm personally scared to death by the shaper and use any contrivance
possible to keep my hands away from the cutterhead.

I can see SawStop being implemented through OSHA in production shops,
once the bugs have been ironed out.

Right now, you are asking a shop owner to carry replacement cartridges
for a unit that has not undergone adequate market testing, that costs
a substantial percentage of the original cost of the saw.

Take the airbag, please.

If you have an event that requires the deployment of the airbag(s),
the replacement cost is generally less than ten percent of the cost of
the vehicle. The level of false positives is less than 0.05%. This
is most often covered by insurance.

SawStop is more than double that, and market reports show that false
positives are in an unacceptable range. I am not aware of any
insurance program that covers the cost.

Maybe we should have freaking airbags on our saws that pop out of the
blade guard and knock our fingers away. It won't fry the saw and
you'll have a nice sack to store your oddments in.


Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Well, that one sure got some action!
And one guy has actually used one!
I had no idea about the false stops, which could be an issue at $200 or so
with a good blade.
I'm gonna try to find one on display.
Thanks,
Wilson


"Wilson" wrote in message
ink.net...
Does anyone have one?
How's it compare to Unisaws?
Wilson

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 02:01:11 GMT, "Wilson"
wrote:

Well, that one sure got some action!
And one guy has actually used one!
I had no idea about the false stops, which could be an issue at $200 or so
with a good blade.
I'm gonna try to find one on display.

If you did a search you might find that it's nowhere near $200 unless
your blades are titanium. The poster who said that was as misinformed
as the one on the 16th who said:

jtpr wrote:
$4000 for a table saw?!?!?! Holy cow, wish I had your budget...
--Who said it costs $4k?? Not even half that IIRC. Not much more
than a Delta: a pittance when you think about the potential downsides..

You're unlikely to be able to get one in your shop for less than $3K+.

But I've said too much...

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

That's it. Keep a room full of spares on hand for those times that the
machine misfires due to a yet unresolved design issue.

Naturally, you own a SawStop and are closely familiar with all those
unspoken and unresolved design issues. It's also obvious that you have
master's degrees in mechanics, electronics and have attended Mr. Gass'
business numerous times to evaluate said design issues.

If those things aren't true then the reverse must be true, that you have
no
experience with those unspoken design issues whatsoever and decided that
you'd elucidate us with some verbal diarrhea.



At times, you're entertaining. At other times, you make a complete ass of
yourself.

--

-Mike-

I had no idea about the false stops, which could be an issue at $200 or so
with a good blade.


Where are you guys finding "data" regarding false triggers ?? ?? ??
I've not been able to track down a single verified instance !! !! !!

BTW .. a replacement cartrige is $59.00 added to the cost of
repair/replacement of whatever blade you were using when the device
triggered. I triggered the device on two occasions where I worked ..
both were demonstrations and intentional .. we were using a 40 tooth
blade in the demo, and in each case, 3 teeth were embedded in the
cartridge. 3-4 replaced teeth on a good blade should run less than $15
at most sharpening shops. Even if you are talking about replacing a
Forrest blade .. I just ordered two from Amazon for $68.00 each. Now,
let's take an imaginary trip to the Emergence Room and start adding up
the $$$$$$$. FWIW .. in both instances, the blades were ATB grind,
and you could easily tell from the damage that ONLY ONE TOOTH ever
touched the hot dog.

I am also not aware of the "facts" surrounding the alleged attempt by
the inventor to get the government to make his device a mandate. I've
read several posts making some accusations of that, and feel that it is
probably at least partially true. What I don't undersatnd is, what
does a marketing blunder on his part have to do with keeping my fingers
on my hands ?? I've read some posts declaring "I'd probably buy one IF
he didn't try to blah, blah, blah" No matter WHAT HE DOES, I want to
KEEP MY FINGERS.

YES .. $4,000 is a lot of money for a saw .. .. ..
YES .. $100 or more to replace blade & cartridge sounds like a big
investment .. .. ..
YES .. the SAWSTOP is an excellent saw and a wonderfully designed saw
even without the brake .. .. ..

oh yeah .. .. ..
YES .. it WILL cost you in excess of $40,000 to have an amputated finger
reattached, not to maention the paing, suffering, loss of work, loss of
use of the appendage, etc.

The more you study the dynamics of a kickback and it's associated
perils, the more sense the SAWSTOP makes. Used correctly, it will
almost eliminate the possibility of a kickback, and the blade brake WILL
protect you in the event you do something stupid and cause one anyway.

In article , "__ Bob __" wrote:

I had no idea about the false stops, which could be an issue at $200 or so
with a good blade.


Where are you guys finding "data" regarding false triggers ?? ?? ??
I've not been able to track down a single verified instance !! !! !!

Do a Google Groups search -- at least one person has posted here, reporting a
false trip of which he says he has first-hand knowledge.

[snip]

I am also not aware of the "facts" surrounding the alleged attempt by
the inventor to get the government to make his device a mandate. I've
read several posts making some accusations of that, and feel that it is
probably at least partially true.

It's *completely* true. Again, do a Google Groups search -- this was discussed
in great detail here about two years ago. SawStop *did* in fact petition the
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, requesting that their proprietary
technology become mandated, and there was a post here that referenced the CPSC
filing. This is not a wild unsubstantiated figment of someone's imagination.
It's a fact.

[snip]

The more you study the dynamics of a kickback and it's associated
perils, the more sense the SAWSTOP makes. Used correctly, it will
almost eliminate the possibility of a kickback, and the blade brake WILL
protect you in the event you do something stupid and cause one anyway.

How does the SawStop prevent *kickback* ?? The whole point of the device is to
prevent *amputations*.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

How does the SawStop prevent *kickback* ?? The whole point of the device
is to
prevent *amputations*.


Two words:
Riving Knife

Now That item should be mandatory

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "__ Bob __" wrote:

I had no idea about the false stops, which could be an issue at $200 or so
with a good blade.


Where are you guys finding "data" regarding false triggers ?? ?? ??
I've not been able to track down a single verified instance !! !! !!

Do a Google Groups search -- at least one person has posted here, reporting a
false trip of which he says he has first-hand knowledge.

[snip]

I am also not aware of the "facts" surrounding the alleged attempt by
the inventor to get the government to make his device a mandate. I've
read several posts making some accusations of that, and feel that it is
probably at least partially true.

It's *completely* true. Again, do a Google Groups search -- this was discussed
in great detail here about two years ago. SawStop *did* in fact petition the
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, requesting that their proprietary
technology become mandated, and there was a post here that referenced the CPSC
filing. This is not a wild unsubstantiated figment of someone's imagination.
It's a fact.

[snip]

The more you study the dynamics of a kickback and it's associated
perils, the more sense the SAWSTOP makes. Used correctly, it will
almost eliminate the possibility of a kickback, and the blade brake WILL
protect you in the event you do something stupid and cause one anyway.

How does the SawStop prevent *kickback* ?? The whole point of the device is to
prevent *amputations*.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

The riving knife adresses kickback. Does hand/blade contact result
from kickback?

Tom Watson wrote:

If you have an event that requires the deployment of the airbag(s),
the replacement cost is generally less than ten percent of the cost of
the vehicle.**The*level*of*false*positives*is*less*tha n*0.05%.**This
is most often covered by insurance.

SawStop is more than double that, and market reports show that false
positives*are*in*an*unacceptable*range.**I*am*not* aware*of*any

You're confusing me, Tom. If you're saying that the cost of a replacement
cartridge and a sawblade are over 20% of the cost of the Sawstop, you're
wrong. Last time I looked, cartridges cost $60 and sawblades shouldn't be
over $140. That's $200 out of a saw/blade cost of $3600 or more. or roughly
5.5% or less.

If you're implying that the Sawstop costs over 20% of a comparable saw without
the safety features, that's open to interpretation. Because of the load the
safety feature puts on the saw, many of the components are much heavier duty
than on other saws. You can attribute that to the safety in which case
you're right, or you can say you're getting much more saw than others, in
which case you're wrong.

BTW, if the offer hasn't ended, Sawstop will send you a new cartridge for free
if you return the fired one -they're collecting data. That could end at any
time, of course.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

Doug Miller wrote:

Do a Google Groups search -- at least one person has posted here, reporting a
false trip of which he says he has first-hand knowledge.



Did a Google search .. still cannot find verification of a false-trigger
... ..
never said it didn't/couldn't happen .. just that I can't track it down.

It's *completely* true. Again, do a Google Groups search -- this was discussed
in great detail here about two years ago. SawStop *did* in fact petition the
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, requesting that their proprietary
technology become mandated, and there was a post here that referenced the CPSC
filing. This is not a wild unsubstantiated figment of someone's imagination.
It's a fact.

I did locate info. verifying that the owner did, in fact petition to
have "Sawstop-like" technology mandated on new saws made in the U.S. ..
... BUT .. .. ONLY after having met with officials from other tool
companies who resisted his technology ONLY in the interest of their own
bottom-line. Face it .. if Powermatic/Delta/Grizzly adopted this
technolgy, they would have one heck of a time selling off and supporting
their old stock. THEY don't care about you or your fingers .. .. they
care about corporate profits .. .. PLUS .. .. they are afraid of being
sued at some point in time for not having adopted a known safety
technology. According to my Google search, he was told by one major
tool representative that IF his device ever came to market, THEY could
easily go bankrupt. After going toe-to-toe with folks of that caliber,
I really don't blame him for pulling out all the stops and trying his
petition tactic. I don't really agree with that tactic but I do
understand it.

How does the SawStop prevent *kickback* ?? The whole point of the device is to
prevent *amputations*.

Riving-knife .. .. and a well-designed one at that .. .. BUT .. .. you
still have the option of removing it, hence my final comment about
ALMOST making kickbacks impossible, but saving your fingers if you
circumvent it.

I noticed you conveniently "snipped" all of the factual data that was of
a positive note .. .. ..

"__ Bob __" wrote in message
...

Where are you guys finding "data" regarding false triggers ?? ?? ??
I've not been able to track down a single verified instance !! !! !!

They have been reported in this group by owners of the saw.


The more you study the dynamics of a kickback and it's associated
perils, the more sense the SAWSTOP makes. Used correctly, it will
almost eliminate the possibility of a kickback, and the blade brake WILL
protect you in the event you do something stupid and cause one anyway.

So, the brake device fires when it detects a possible kickback situation?
That's news to me. Please explain how it does that and how it differentiates
a normal cut from a possible kickback situation.

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:
...snipped...
How does the SawStop prevent *kickback* ?? The whole point of the device is to
prevent *amputations*.
...snipped...

Besides its namesake feature, the whole saw is designed to increase
safety compared to more traditional saws. Probably the main
improvement is the riving knife (splitter) that rises and falls with
the blade, allowing it to say in place for most any cut. I'm not
enthused by the company's politics and think the sawstop brake thing is
overhyped and overdesigned, but IMHO the riving knife that falls with
the blade is a desireable feature for both safety and performance.

I'm no patent lawyer, and I don't know exactly what the sawstop
patents cover, but I dont see how anyone could patent the broad idea
of a safety device that stops a sawblade or any other type of moving
machinery. There's just too much prior art. I suppose there is some
merit in the sensor design part of the patent, but even so, I don't
see that as being something unique, it could be done another way.

Did you ever try to select a floor in an elevator with the touch-style
buttons by tapping them with a pencil?


--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

TSW632 wrote:


The riving knife adresses kickback. Does hand/blade contact result
from kickback?

In many instances, absolutely. If you're lucky, the blade will yank
the piece of stock out of your hand and throw it at you .. .. if not,
the blade will catch the piece of stock, lift it, and befin to rotate it
as the teeth get a good bite. Depending on your hand position at this
moment, you could come down on the blade with a finger/hand/or even a
wrist.

CW wrote:

The more you study the dynamics of a kickback and it's associated
perils, the more sense the SAWSTOP makes. Used correctly, it will
almost eliminate the possibility of a kickback, and the blade brake WILL
protect you in the event you do something stupid and cause one anyway.


So, the brake device fires when it detects a possible kickback situation?
That's news to me. Please explain how it does that and how it differentiates
a normal cut from a possible kickback situation.



WHERE did I ever make THAT statement ?? ?? ??

The riving knife prevents kickbacks .. the brake helps you stay intact
IF you fail to use it. Sheesh !! !! !!

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 23:18:27 -0500, __ Bob __ wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

Do a Google Groups search -- at least one person has posted here, reporting a
false trip of which he says he has first-hand knowledge.



Did a Google search .. still cannot find verification of a false-trigger
.. ..
never said it didn't/couldn't happen .. just that I can't track it down.

It's *completely* true. Again, do a Google Groups search -- this was discussed
in great detail here about two years ago. SawStop *did* in fact petition the
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, requesting that their proprietary
technology become mandated, and there was a post here that referenced the CPSC
filing. This is not a wild unsubstantiated figment of someone's imagination.
It's a fact.

I did locate info. verifying that the owner did, in fact petition to
have "Sawstop-like" technology mandated on new saws made in the U.S. ..
.. BUT .. .. ONLY after having met with officials from other tool
companies who resisted his technology ONLY in the interest of their own
bottom-line.

Uh, that's _his_ spin.

Face it .. if Powermatic/Delta/Grizzly adopted this
technolgy, they would have one heck of a time selling off and supporting
their old stock. THEY don't care about you or your fingers .. .. they
care about corporate profits .. .. PLUS .. .. they are afraid of being
sued at some point in time for not having adopted a known safety
technology.

If they were afraid of that then they would have adopted it as
soon as it became available.

According to my Google search, he was told by one major
tool representative that IF his device ever came to market, THEY could
easily go bankrupt.

And who is reporting this?

After going toe-to-toe with folks of that caliber,
I really don't blame him for pulling out all the stops and trying his
petition tactic. I don't really agree with that tactic but I do
understand it.

Oh, it's understandable but it's not forgiveable.

How does the SawStop prevent *kickback* ?? The whole point of the
device is to prevent *amputations*.

Riving-knife .. .. and a well-designed one at that .. .. BUT .. .. you
still have the option of removing it, hence my final comment about
ALMOST making kickbacks impossible, but saving your fingers if you
circumvent it.

I noticed you conveniently "snipped" all of the factual data that was of
a positive note .. .. ..

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Only if you are leaning/reaching over the blade which only a DUMASS would
do.

"__ Bob __" wrote in message
...
TSW632 wrote:


The riving knife adresses kickback. Does hand/blade contact result
from kickback?

In many instances, absolutely. If you're lucky, the blade will yank
the piece of stock out of your hand and throw it at you .. .. if not,
the blade will catch the piece of stock, lift it, and befin to rotate it
as the teeth get a good bite. Depending on your hand position at this
moment, you could come down on the blade with a finger/hand/or even a
wrist.

I quoted your statement. Try reading. Here it is again.


"__ Bob __" wrote in message
...
CW wrote:

The more you study the dynamics of a kickback and it's associated
perils, the more sense the SAWSTOP makes. Used correctly, it will
almost eliminate the possibility of a kickback, and the blade brake WILL
protect you in the event you do something stupid and cause one anyway.



WHERE did I ever make THAT statement ?? ?? ??

Robatoy wrote:

On Nov 26, 5:40 pm, "Leon" wrote:

want a guard on that. (You don't sew a part-finger back on after a
jointer takes it off.)


r

It's also tough to reattach the pink spray you get when you reach past a
grinder.

DAMHIKT

Bill

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message news

That's it. Keep a room full of spares on hand for those times that
the
machine misfires due to a yet unresolved design issue.

At times, you're entertaining. At other times, you make a complete ass of
yourself.

Hey, you're the one making statements about "unresolved design issues"
without any factual evidence to back it up. With the verbal diarrhea you're
spouting, it suggests that you're the real ass.

Realistically, there isn't any type of perfect machinery on this planet. If
you'd said something like that then I'd agree with you fully, but that's not
what you said is it? You just opened your mouth and spouted your unspoken
suggestion that there was something that needs to be fixed with the SawStop.
And, that leads me to say it again. You're full of crap.

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 15:41:58 -0600, "RonB" wrote:

Absolutely correct! I made a stupid assumption that when you turn the
switch off the TS blade stops. Walked away, realized I had left a cutoff
sitting on the tabletop. Over-reached the blade and ^%#&$.

Then you made a poor assumption and an unsafe decision to leave the
cutoff there. That's something that is completely within your control
though and thinking safety first might have told you that there was a
kickback possibility and you should move the cutoff completely away
from the blade, moving or not.

That's why some of us aren't worried about a tablesaw chasing us down
and causing us bodily harm, we consider the possibilities carefully
and don't take any chances to begin with.

On 26 Nov 2006 16:35:34 -0800, "Robatoy" wrote:

One accident that may have been prevented by the SawStop, will not
change the odds for an accident elsewhere in the shop. In fact, I think
that unit may build a false sense of safety which may be carried over
to the shaper (really should have a power feeder), drill press and
radial arm saw..or a jointer.. now there's nasty piece of gear. I DO
want a guard on that. (You don't sew a part-finger back on after a
jointer takes it off.)

Oh yes, once that jointer gets through, your finger is going to be
thinly sliced and spread over a wide area. But what's next? Do they
start making JointerStop and DrillPressStop? Hey, why not go for
HammerStop so you don't hit your thumb?

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 01:18:05 -0500, Bill in Detroit
wrote:

It's also tough to reattach the pink spray you get when you reach past a
grinder.

Hey, new product! GrinderStop!

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 05:12:05 GMT, "CW" wrote:

Only if you are leaning/reaching over the blade which only a DUMASS would
do.

Without a blade guard, which takes even a bigger dumbass.

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message

That's why some of us aren't worried about a tablesaw chasing us down
and causing us bodily harm, we consider the possibilities carefully
and don't take any chances to begin with.

How is it that you're so perfect and have never ever hurt yourself? Can I
have some of that dope you're smoking? I'd like to feel omnipotent too.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message news

That's it. Keep a room full of spares on hand for those times that
the
machine misfires due to a yet unresolved design issue.

At times, you're entertaining. At other times, you make a complete ass
of
yourself.

Hey, you're the one making statements about "unresolved design issues"
without any factual evidence to back it up. With the verbal diarrhea
you're
spouting, it suggests that you're the real ass.

Realistically, there isn't any type of perfect machinery on this planet.
If
you'd said something like that then I'd agree with you fully, but that's
not
what you said is it? You just opened your mouth and spouted your unspoken
suggestion that there was something that needs to be fixed with the
SawStop.
And, that leads me to say it again. You're full of crap.



Didn't one or a couple of earlier posters who own the saw post about
misfires?

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

Didn't one or a couple of earlier posters who own the saw post about
misfires?

Yes, you're correct, which is why I mentioned that there isn't any type of
perfect machinery on this planet. Nothing is absolutely perfect. That
doesn't for one second suggest that the SawStop is a faulty product. All it
means is that there's always going to be an exception to one working
flawlessly under all conditions. As someone mentioned earlier, SawStop (for
the time being anyway) is accepting the first fired cartridge from people
and replacing it no charge. Apparently, they're using this process to
investigate and evaluate the effectiveness of their saw out in the general
public. Any company of merit is always looking to improve their product.
That doesn't mean it's defective.

If you're really interested in information on the SawStop in actual use and
the amount of activations, I'd suggest you query Robin Lee of Lee Valley
Tools. Most if not all of the saws within Lee Valley Tools have been
replaced with SawStops. I think LV has in excess of a dozen saws. I don't
know if he will respond, but Robin should be able to give you an honest
evaluation of LV's experience with activations, faulty or otherwise.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

Didn't one or a couple of earlier posters who own the saw post about
misfires?

Yes, you're correct, which is why I mentioned that there isn't any type of
perfect machinery on this planet. Nothing is absolutely perfect. That
doesn't for one second suggest that the SawStop is a faulty product. All
it
means is that there's always going to be an exception to one working
flawlessly under all conditions. As someone mentioned earlier, SawStop
(for
the time being anyway) is accepting the first fired cartridge from people
and replacing it no charge. Apparently, they're using this process to
investigate and evaluate the effectiveness of their saw out in the general
public. Any company of merit is always looking to improve their product.
That doesn't mean it's defective.

The original posts certainly did imply (to my eye) that these were true
misfires. That's a design issue that has yet to be worked out, if that's
the case. No need to be an applogist for Sawstop - it's just a matter of
fact. Like all new products, things have to be worked out sometimes. My
response was to your comment that the owner should invest in an inventory of
spare items to protect against downtime incurred by something that really
was not supposed to happen - a misfire. That's an appologist position. My
comment was that it should not be the responsibility of the owner to
inventory parts in anticipation of the thing firing when it should not.
Nothing more than that. Do you buy a second set of tires for your car in
anticipation of a tire failure?


If you're really interested in information on the SawStop in actual use
and
the amount of activations, I'd suggest you query Robin Lee of Lee Valley
Tools. Most if not all of the saws within Lee Valley Tools have been
replaced with SawStops. I think LV has in excess of a dozen saws. I don't
know if he will respond, but Robin should be able to give you an honest
evaluation of LV's experience with activations, faulty or otherwise.



I'm not interested. I think the saw looks to be a pretty good design from a
number of perspectives and I think the stop mechanism will probably be
de-bugged quickly enough, and will eventually be a pretty good machine. I
think the cost is too high, but that's a very subjective statement. Again -
my original comment to you was not addressing the saw, it was addressing
your assertion that if the saw is still prone to mis-fires, then the owner
should stock parts. My contention is that the manufacturer should assume
the position of standing behind those mis-fire issues. Let them supply
parts in anticipation of a mis-fire until they get the bugs worked out.

--

-Mike-

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

snip
If you're really interested in information on the SawStop in actual use
and
the amount of activations, I'd suggest you query Robin Lee of Lee Valley
Tools. Most if not all of the saws within Lee Valley Tools have been
replaced with SawStops. I think LV has in excess of a dozen saws. I don't
know if he will respond, but Robin should be able to give you an honest
evaluation of LV's experience with activations, faulty or otherwise.


Good saw, well made.

Have had no misfires, or injuries, and planning to keep it that way.

We do keep a spare cartridge on hand though...maybe the likelihood of
misfire goes up if you don't?

We do not use dado sets anymore - so no experience there....

Cheers -

Rob

"Rob Lee" wrote in message
...
Good saw, well made.

Have had no misfires, or injuries, and planning to keep it that way.

We do keep a spare cartridge on hand though...maybe the likelihood of
misfire goes up if you don't?

We do not use dado sets anymore - so no experience there....

Cheers -

Rob



If I may ask prior to your adoption of sawstops what was your Tablesaw
injury rate? Any rough approximation would suffice.....

Incidentally recently(a week or so) the Mrs. asked me what I wanted for my
birthday and I presented her with a Lee Valley wish list.....she obliged and
in less than a week the order showed up upon my doorstep....complete, nice
stuff, well packed and timely....thanks Rod

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...



Oh yes, once that jointer gets through, your finger is going to be
thinly sliced and spread over a wide area. But what's next? Do they
start making JointerStop and DrillPressStop? Hey, why not go for
HammerStop so you don't hit your thumb?


No they are going straight to the IdiotStop. It will read your mind and
stop you from going near any machinery that you are overly confident about
using.

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...


Then you made a poor assumption and an unsafe decision to leave the
cutoff there. That's something that is completely within your control
though and thinking safety first might have told you that there was a
kickback possibility and you should move the cutoff completely away
from the blade, moving or not.

Hell he made an unsafe decision to not have some one else cut the wood for
him. He should have called you, I guess.


That's why some of us aren't worried about a tablesaw chasing us down
and causing us bodily harm, we consider the possibilities carefully
and don't take any chances to begin with.

I guess you have your TS chained sown so that it will not chase you down
and cause you bodily harm.

Even if they had no injuries prior, I'll bet they're saving
a significant amount on insurance.

Rod & Betty Jo wrote:

If I may ask prior to your adoption of sawstops what was your Tablesaw
injury rate? Any rough approximation would suffice.....

So your philosophy is NO safety features until they're
available for EVERYTHING?

Sawstop is undoubtedly working on making the technology
work with other machine tools too.

Robatoy wrote:
One accident that may have been prevented by the SawStop, will not
change the odds for an accident elsewhere in the shop. In fact, I think
that unit may build a false sense of safety which may be carried over
to the shaper (really should have a power feeder), drill press and
radial arm saw..or a jointer.. now there's nasty piece of gear. I DO
want a guard on that. (You don't sew a part-finger back on after a
jointer takes it off.)

"M Berger" wrote in message
...
Even if they had no injuries prior, I'll bet they're saving
a significant amount on insurance.


And promoting customer Good Will.

Why is it a big deal? Thousands of companies try to get their
products approved and mandated by the government. Maybe someone
working on the campaign lost a limb and didn't want to see that
happen to others.

If the technology were mandated, think of how fast the price would
drop. That would benefit everybody.

Doug Miller wrote:

It's *completely* true. Again, do a Google Groups search -- this was discussed
in great detail here about two years ago. SawStop *did* in fact petition the
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, requesting that their proprietary
technology become mandated, and there was a post here that referenced the CPSC
filing. This is not a wild unsubstantiated figment of someone's imagination.
It's a fact.