Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The plans
(the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long working time
or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive, the PVA and yellow
are not expensive but the working time is not as long. Do I need to worry
about their water vulnerabilities? (Not that I'm gonna be working in a pool
or anything.) If I do need to go the epoxy route, where can I get it, and
which one?
Thanks,
Pete

"Pete Stolz" wrote in
:

Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The
plans (the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long
working time or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive,
the PVA and yellow are not expensive but the working time is not as
long. Do I need to worry about their water vulnerabilities? (Not
that I'm gonna be working in a pool or anything.) If I do need to go
the epoxy route, where can I get it, and which one?
Thanks,
Pete


You COULD use epoxy, but the extended working time doesn't really buy you
much, in comparison to the added costs and additional fuss. None of the
"build your own heritage bench" articles I've seen in the last 5 years used
anything other than PVA glues to laminate a benchtop...

I used Titebond Original and McFeeley's screws to do mine, but then, it was
layering good grade plywood into a 2.25" thick top, which I regularly
abuse. A reject firedoor from the oops pile at the doorbuilder makes a
pretty good benchtop, too.

If you're planning on regularly getting your benchtop wet, you may need to
take another road.

Patriarch

"Pete Stolz" wrote in message
...
Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The plans
(the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long working time
or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive, the PVA and yellow
are not expensive but the working time is not as long. Do I need to worry
about their water vulnerabilities? (Not that I'm gonna be working in a
pool or anything.) If I do need to go the epoxy route, where can I get
it, and which one?
Thanks,
Pete


IIRC DAP makes WeldWood. A powder glue that is extremely strong and has a
pretty long work time. Mix with water as needed and if it dries on your
fingers or clothes it will be there for a very long time.

"Pete Stolz" wrote in message
...
Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The plans
(the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long working time
or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive, the PVA and yellow
are not expensive but the working time is not as long. Do I need to worry
about their water vulnerabilities? (Not that I'm gonna be working in a
pool or anything.) If I do need to go the epoxy route, where can I get
it, and which one?
Thanks,
Pete


PVA, Just don't glue up more than you can get clamped in 10 minutes. Don't
skimp on glue or over-tighten the clamps.

Dave



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Pete Stolz wrote:
Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The plans
(the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long working time
or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive, the PVA and yellow
are not expensive but the working time is not as long. Do I need to worry
about their water vulnerabilities? (Not that I'm gonna be working in a pool
or anything.) If I do need to go the epoxy route, where can I get it, and
which one?

Spend a little time (with the wood, clamps, etc.) to rehearse every
detail of what you are going to do, and anticipate the problems that
will arise, then figure out a way to deal with them, and you will
probably be well under the time limit. Do the rehearsal right before
bedtime, and sleep on it.

er
--
email not valid

Speaking of clamps, the boards are 1" x 2" finished size and will be glued
so the edges make the surface of the top...you know what I mean. Anyway,
how far apart should I put the clamps?

zzzzzzzzzz



"Enoch Root" wrote in message
news:lYWdna4OI5Bq4L3ZnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@forethought. net...
Pete Stolz wrote:
Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The plans
(the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long working
time
or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive, the PVA and
yellow
are not expensive but the working time is not as long. Do I need to
worry
about their water vulnerabilities? (Not that I'm gonna be working in a
pool
or anything.) If I do need to go the epoxy route, where can I get it,
and
which one?

Spend a little time (with the wood, clamps, etc.) to rehearse every
detail of what you are going to do, and anticipate the problems that
will arise, then figure out a way to deal with them, and you will
probably be well under the time limit. Do the rehearsal right before
bedtime, and sleep on it.

er
--
email not valid

"Pete Stolz" wrote in message
...
Speaking of clamps, the boards are 1" x 2" finished size and will be glued
so the edges make the surface of the top...you know what I mean. Anyway,
how far apart should I put the clamps?

zzzzzzzzzz


Use as many clamps as you have. Minimum spacing would be 6". I would
suggest using cauls to hold the boards flat during glue up.

Dave



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Hi Dave,

Thanks for the help. I really enjoy working with wood, but I'm pretty much
a rookie with this stuff. What's a caul? If it'll keep the boards flat
I'll use 'em!
Pete

"Teamcasa" wrote in message
...

"Pete Stolz" wrote in message
...
Speaking of clamps, the boards are 1" x 2" finished size and will be
glued so the edges make the surface of the top...you know what I mean.
Anyway, how far apart should I put the clamps?

zzzzzzzzzz


Use as many clamps as you have. Minimum spacing would be 6". I would
suggest using cauls to hold the boards flat during glue up.

Dave


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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Thanks for your help, guys! This stuff sure is fun, especially when you do
it right.
Pete

"Pete Stolz" wrote in message
...
Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The plans
(the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long working time
or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive, the PVA and yellow
are not expensive but the working time is not as long. Do I need to worry
about their water vulnerabilities? (Not that I'm gonna be working in a
pool or anything.) If I do need to go the epoxy route, where can I get
it, and which one?
Thanks,
Pete

Pete Stolz wrote:
"Teamcasa" wrote in message
...
"Pete Stolz" wrote in message
om...

Speaking of clamps, the boards are 1" x 2" finished size and will be
glued so the edges make the surface of the top...you know what I mean.
Anyway, how far apart should I put the clamps?

Use as many clamps as you have. Minimum spacing would be 6". I would
suggest using cauls to hold the boards flat during glue up.

Thanks for the help. I really enjoy working with wood, but I'm pretty
much
a rookie with this stuff. What's a caul? If it'll keep the boards flat
I'll use 'em!

A caul is a (pair of) boards, sometimes with a slight "belly" to them,
that you would use to clamp to the top and bottom of whatever you are
gluing to keep them lined up.

And if you have that many boards you are gluing together you either need
a very efficient roller (and technique) to put the glue on the boards,
or, like someone said, put them together in sections.

er
--
email not valid

Pete Stolz wrote:
Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The
plans (the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long
working time or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive,
the PVA and yellow are not expensive but the working time is not as
long.

My suggestion would be yellow glue. Specifically, TiteBond type 2. It
doesn't creep like PVA and is water resistant.

You would still have the problem of open time but that is easily solved
by not trying to glue the whole works up at once...just glue together as
many as comfortable. For example, glue together half a dozen; then glue
together another half a dozen; then another six; finally, glue together
the 3 sets of half a dozen. (Note that "half a dozen is not a
suggestion, just an example). Doing it this way also means a better
over all job because less clamp pressure will be needed for fewer pieces
should the edges be less than perfect. Additionally, the edges of the
glued up sets can be joined (if needed) before the sets are glued
together.
_______________

Do I need to worry about their water vulnerabilities?

No
___________

If I do need to go
the epoxy route, where can I get it, and which one?

Epoxy is handy so - for future reference - the #635 epoxy. It is handy
to also have some Cabosil available (same source). It is a very light,
fluffy and fine silica which is used to thicken epoxy. (Epoxy works
best if the joints are *NOT* perfect; if they are *too* less than
perfect, the Cabosil lets the epoxy fill the gaps.)
http://www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Titebond II is a cross-linking polyvinyl acetate - PVA - and does creep
unlike urethane glues (Gorilla).
http://www.titebond.com/IntroPageTB....ne=2?prodcat=1

"dadiOH" wrote in message
news:KedUf.11764$wD1.1902@trnddc02...
Pete Stolz wrote:
Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The
plans (the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long
working time or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive,
the PVA and yellow are not expensive but the working time is not as
long.

My suggestion would be yellow glue. Specifically, TiteBond type 2. It
doesn't creep like PVA and is water resistant.

You would still have the problem of open time but that is easily solved
by not trying to glue the whole works up at once...just glue together as
many as comfortable. For example, glue together half a dozen; then glue
together another half a dozen; then another six; finally, glue together
the 3 sets of half a dozen. (Note that "half a dozen is not a
suggestion, just an example). Doing it this way also means a better
over all job because less clamp pressure will be needed for fewer pieces
should the edges be less than perfect. Additionally, the edges of the
glued up sets can be joined (if needed) before the sets are glued
together.
_______________

Do I need to worry about their water vulnerabilities?

No
___________

If I do need to go
the epoxy route, where can I get it, and which one?

Epoxy is handy so - for future reference - the #635 epoxy. It is handy
to also have some Cabosil available (same source). It is a very light,
fluffy and fine silica which is used to thicken epoxy. (Epoxy works
best if the joints are *NOT* perfect; if they are *too* less than
perfect, the Cabosil lets the epoxy fill the gaps.)
http://www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Max Mahanke wrote:
Titebond II is a cross-linking polyvinyl acetate - PVA - and does
creep unlike urethane glues (Gorilla).

Dang!...those devils.

OK, switch to plain old TiteBond.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Hi Pete:

I would stay away from the PVA's, because as others have noted, they
creep over time. Epoxy is overkill, and as you found, expensive.
Also, the glue-up will be complex enough without worrying about mixing
a two-part adhesive. I have used polyurethane glue (Gorilla) for
years, and am quite happy with it. It's priced between the PVA and
epoxy. It is strong, can fill small gaps without significant loss of
strength, is waterproof, and simple (one-part). Squeez-out is easily
dealt with by allowing the glue to cure, and scraping away the
resulting foam. Wear gloves, though, or your fingers will be black for
weeks.

Regards,
John.

Pete Stolz wrote:
Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The
plans
(the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long working
time
or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive, the PVA and
yellow
are not expensive but the working time is not as long.
snip

When it comes to adhesives, after epoxy, everything else is down hill.

You indicate epoxy is "REALLY expensive".

I submit that is a relative term.

Yes, epoxy will be probably 3-6 times more expensive than say TiteBond
II which as about $13-$14/gallon the last time I bought it, but that
cost is not necessarily the final determination.

What percentage of the cost of the total project, does the cost of the
epoxy represent?

My guess is less than 10% of the total project.

Use something that is 50% of the cost of the epoxy and your total
savings are only 5% of the project, but you finished project will have
it's value reduced by far more than 5%.

Glue the strips in groups of 3-4, the glue these groups together.

When everything is glued up, head to the commercial top shop and have
them sand it flat.

Enjoy.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Pete Stolz wrote:
Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The
plans
(the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long working
time
or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive, the PVA and
yellow
are not expensive but the working time is not as long.
snip

When it comes to adhesives, after epoxy, everything else is down hill.

You indicate epoxy is "REALLY expensive".

I submit that is a relative term.

Yes, epoxy will be probably 3-6 times more expensive than say TiteBond
II which as about $13-$14/gallon the last time I bought it, but that
cost is not necessarily the final determination.

What percentage of the cost of the total project, does the cost of the
epoxy represent?

My guess is less than 10% of the total project.

Use something that is 50% of the cost of the epoxy and your total
savings are only 5% of the project, but you finished project will have
it's value reduced by far more than 5%.

Glue the strips in groups of 3-4, the glue these groups together.

When everything is glued up, head to the commercial top shop and have
them sand it flat.

Enjoy.

Lew
I think plastic resin glue would be more than adequate for that job, Lew
and a lot cheaper and easier to clean up...

Dave

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Use something that is 50% of the cost of the epoxy and your total
savings are only 5% of the project, but you finished project will have
it's value reduced by far more than 5%.

What is that, Amdahl's Law for wooddorkers?

er
--
email not valid

Plain old TiteBond would work just fine for a workbench glue-up. So would
TiteBond II. I'd go for TiteBond Slow Set myself as it would give me 15
minutes for the 'oh craps!' that creep into glue-ups of that complexity.
Creep is only a problem in joints under tension such as a bent glue
lamination. Hell, a workbensh top is not under any tension. Me thinks we
sometimes put too fine a point on things. BTW, did you go to TieBonds
site? - a wealth of imformation.

"dadiOH" wrote in message
news:VPxUf.11$ah3.5@trnddc06...
Max Mahanke wrote:
Titebond II is a cross-linking polyvinyl acetate - PVA - and does
creep unlike urethane glues (Gorilla).

Dang!...those devils.

OK, switch to plain old TiteBond.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On 23-Mar-2006, David wrote:

I think plastic resin glue would be more than adequate for that job, Lew
and a lot cheaper and easier to clean up..

As in polyester resin? That would offgas styrene and would require a lot more
ventilation, VOC mask etc. I'd use good quality epoxy and know that there are
fewer nasty chemicals in the air as a result. You do have to protect your skin
as epoxies, when uncured, are toxic and can cause allergies.

Mike

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
Pete Stolz wrote:
Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The
plans
(the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long working
time
or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive, the PVA and
yellow
are not expensive but the working time is not as long.
snip

When it comes to adhesives, after epoxy, everything else is down hill.

With all due respect, I don't agree. Epoxy is the choice for loose joints.
Put too much clamping pressure on the wooktop glue-up and you squeeze out
the epoxy and starve the joint and the epoxy fails where plain old PVA or
Aliphatic Resin glue will do just fine. I love epoxy in loose mortise &
tenon joints, but for a panel glue-up, give me plain old water based glue
any time (aliphatic resin or PVA).

You indicate epoxy is "REALLY expensive".

I submit that is a relative term.

Yes, epoxy will be probably 3-6 times more expensive than say TiteBond
II which as about $13-$14/gallon the last time I bought it, but that
cost is not necessarily the final determination.

What percentage of the cost of the total project, does the cost of the
epoxy represent?

My guess is less than 10% of the total project.

Use something that is 50% of the cost of the epoxy and your total
savings are only 5% of the project, but you finished project will have
it's value reduced by far more than 5%.

Glue the strips in groups of 3-4, the glue these groups together.

When everything is glued up, head to the commercial top shop and have
them sand it flat.

Enjoy.

Lew

Max Mahanke wrote:

With all due respect, I don't agree.

If you disagree with the statement that epoxy is the best adhesive
available, then we will have to agree to disagree.

Epoxy is the choice for loose joints.

One of the benefits of filled epoxy is that it will fill gaps if
properly applied, but not one of it's limitations.

Put too much clamping pressure on the wooktop glue-up and you squeeze out
the epoxy and starve the joint and the epoxy fails where plain old PVA or
Aliphatic Resin glue will do just fine.

A little difficult to blame the tool if it is improperly applied.

I love epoxy in loose mortise &
tenon joints, but for a panel glue-up, give me plain old water based glue
any time (aliphatic resin or PVA).

Do you need epoxy for probably 80% of all wood working applications?

Heavens NO, but if you need epoxy, there is no substitute except when
working with white oak, then it is rescorcinol time.

My comments were aimed at addressing the epoxy cost issue.

The plans for the project called for epoxy.

Yes, epoxy is more expensive than other adhesives; however, as a
percentage of the total cost of the project, it gets lot in the wash.

My point is that if you want to try to save money on a project, look to
other areas other than the adhesive used.

Lew

Hi Lew,
That is good logic. Since the plans call for epoxy first, then PVA or
yellow as alternatives with shorter working times, and because some of the
guys suggested it, I went with the Titebond II. It was in the plan and I
saved a bit of cashola. And because I'm using the Titebond, I'm gluing up
smaller sections. I figgered I could run them through a planer to flatten
them out and then assemble 'em. I like your idea to take it to a commercial
top shop for them to sand it flat though. Now, do you mean a counter top
place, or something else? Like I said in an earlier post, I'm a rookie at
this stuff...having fun, but wanting to do it right.
Thanks,
Pete

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
Pete Stolz wrote:
Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The
plans
(the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long working
time
or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive, the PVA and
yellow
are not expensive but the working time is not as long.
snip

When it comes to adhesives, after epoxy, everything else is down hill.

You indicate epoxy is "REALLY expensive".

I submit that is a relative term.

Yes, epoxy will be probably 3-6 times more expensive than say TiteBond II
which as about $13-$14/gallon the last time I bought it, but that cost is
not necessarily the final determination.

What percentage of the cost of the total project, does the cost of the
epoxy represent?

My guess is less than 10% of the total project.

Use something that is 50% of the cost of the epoxy and your total savings
are only 5% of the project, but you finished project will have it's value
reduced by far more than 5%.

Glue the strips in groups of 3-4, the glue these groups together.

When everything is glued up, head to the commercial top shop and have them
sand it flat.

Enjoy.

Lew

Pete Stolz wrote:
Hi Lew,
I like your idea to take it to a commercial
top shop for them to sand it flat though. Now, do you mean a counter
top
place, or something else? Like I said in an earlier post, I'm a
rookie at
this stuff...having fun, but wanting to do it right.

A commercial drum sanding shop. Need sombody with a 48", 3 belt machine.

A couple of passes and there done.

Try to work a deal where they run you piece thru when they are doing
another job.

Will take longer but cost less.

Enjoy.

Lew

Great thanks. I'll give that a shot.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
Pete Stolz wrote:
Hi Lew,
I like your idea to take it to a commercial
top shop for them to sand it flat though. Now, do you mean a counter
top
place, or something else? Like I said in an earlier post, I'm a
rookie at
this stuff...having fun, but wanting to do it right.

A commercial drum sanding shop. Need sombody with a 48", 3 belt machine.

A couple of passes and there done.

Try to work a deal where they run you piece thru when they are doing
another job.

Will take longer but cost less.

Enjoy.

Lew

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:02:59 GMT, "Pete Stolz"
wrote:

Hi, I'm making a maple workbench top and I need to glue it up. The plans
(the Veritas Modern Bench) call for epoxy because of the long working time
or PVA or yellow glue. The epoxy was REALLY expensive, the PVA and yellow
are not expensive but the working time is not as long. Do I need to worry
about their water vulnerabilities? (Not that I'm gonna be working in a pool
or anything.) If I do need to go the epoxy route, where can I get it, and
which one?
Thanks,
Pete




David Marks would use "A long setting plastic resin glue."

Urea Formaldehyde (sp) glue. I've been looking for a local supplier
in KY with no luck.

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:42:25 GMT, Modat22 wrote:
Urea Formaldehyde (sp) glue. I've been looking for a local supplier in KY
with no luck.

I got Unibond 800 from Vacupress, http://www.vacupress.com

--
Art

Art Greenberg wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:42:25 GMT, Modat22 wrote:

Urea Formaldehyde (sp) glue. I've been looking for a local supplier in KY
with no luck.


I got Unibond 800 from Vacupress, http://www.vacupress.com

Is there an advantage in using that instead of plastic resin?

dave

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:06:24 -0800, David wrote:
Art Greenberg wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:42:25 GMT, Modat22 wrote:

Urea Formaldehyde (sp) glue. I've been looking for a local supplier in KY
with no luck.


I got Unibond 800 from Vacupress, http://www.vacupress.com

Is there an advantage in using that instead of plastic resin?

I believe that UF glue is a plastic resin glue.

--
Art