George wrote:
"Chris Friesen" wrote

I can get that in Saskatchewan for $25CAD a month, $30 if I didn't already
get high-speed internet from them too.

How do they work the taxes? US folks have taxes to provide "essential
service" to the poor, excise, connection taxes and 9-1-1 assessments. Do
these internet-based outfits charge them, or do they fall under the "can't
tax the internet" legislation?

I think I may not have been clear--this is regular landline from the
local telco, not VOIP.

Chris

On 30 Nov 2005 12:59:33 -0800, wrote:

Greg G. wrote:

What do _you_ pay locally for these examples of domestic hardwoods?

About $6/bf for decent 12/4 cherry, and about $5.50 for 4/4 cherry.
Last time I bought walnut I think it was around $6 also. This is in
Phoenix, AZ. The lumber places I use are much more friendly about
measuring, too.

But where are you, Greg? So I know not to move there :-)

PQ

I started building a bandsaw mill because of the lumber prices, I
can't afford to make anything if I buy it at the store.

Plus, I have access to at least 200 acres of woods (as long as I
don't try to log it all) and I have some tree service friends that
call me when they get something I might want.

Here is my local supplier ,Suwannee lumber ,in Suwanee Ga . they are a
pleasure to deal with and their prices seem fair to me .Here is the web
site, see what you think in particular with regards to their selection

www.suwaneelumber.com.

mike hide said:

Here is my local supplier ,Suwannee lumber ,in Suwanee Ga . they are a
pleasure to deal with and their prices seem fair to me .Here is the web
site, see what you think in particular with regards to their selection

www.suwaneelumber.com.

I knew of them but haven't actually tried them, due to the distance.
But their prices look better - and I saw no surcharges. It's a pretty
good ride from here, however, I'd have to stock up to pay for the
trip. Now if I can get SWMBO to give up that useless dining room for
wood storage...

Thanks,


Greg G.

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
George wrote:
"Chris Friesen" wrote

I can get that in Saskatchewan for $25CAD a month, $30 if I didn't
already get high-speed internet from them too.

How do they work the taxes? US folks have taxes to provide "essential
service" to the poor, excise, connection taxes and 9-1-1 assessments. Do
these internet-based outfits charge them, or do they fall under the
"can't tax the internet" legislation?

I think I may not have been clear--this is regular landline from the local
telco, not VOIP.

Mine, too. Verizon is the local long distance carrier. Supposedly working on
DSL. When we returned some 18 months ago, they told my wife it would be six
months. Now, they don't respond that clearly.

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
George wrote:
"Chris Friesen" wrote

I can get that in Saskatchewan for $25CAD a month, $30 if I didn't
already get high-speed internet from them too.

How do they work the taxes? US folks have taxes to provide "essential
service" to the poor, excise, connection taxes and 9-1-1 assessments. Do
these internet-based outfits charge them, or do they fall under the
"can't tax the internet" legislation?

I think I may not have been clear--this is regular landline from the local
telco, not VOIP.

Ah, "bundle" of wireline services with DSL rather than using the bandwidth
on the DSL.

Lots of folks here have gone away from landline altogether. Cellular or
internet calling through cable is cheaper.

George said:


"Greg G." wrote in message
.. .
Greg G. said:

And while wood is definitely far cheaper here than in Clownifornia, I
live in the middle of a freaking hardwood forest - thousands of acres
of it - at least where the clear-cutters haven't gotten to yet....


NOBODY clear-cuts a hardwood forest with the expectation that it will be one
in the future. Clear-cutting is for softwood. where it makes sense because
the seedlings don't tolerate shading well.

No one ever claimed they wanted it to grow back. They strip it for
the hardwoods, and either leave it fallow, or build McMansions on it.
When they build here now, EVERY tree is removed. After all, don't
want those pesky song birds waking you up in the morning. And those
evil trees take up space that could be used for pavement or another
stinking, worthless house.

Like this:
http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/AerialAtlanta-2.jpg
The areas left with trees are where the locals wouldn't sell - yet.

http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/AerialAtlanta-5.jpg
There are over 20 houses in this one picture alone. This mess is
tucked in a slim alley between two older neighborhoods - that's why
there are still trees visible.

When developers originally moved into Atlanta, they built nice homes,
left the majority of the trees, and the houses actually had yards for
the kids.

But Ryland Homes and other such maggot's interpretation of
homebuilding is to strip everything - and I mean EVERYTHING.
The top soil, the trees, the rocks. All that is left is red clay.
Everything else is trucked off and sold.

When you buy a bag of potting soil at Home Depot, you don't get a well
mixed formula of perlite, vermiculite, peat moss and composted soil.
You get a bag of Georgia Forest Topsoil - even says so on the back of
the bags in very small print. It doesn't even matter what brand you
buy: Miracle Grow (crap), private brands (crap), Jungle (better),
Bayer (same crap) or Schultz (used to be a good mix, but now it's
produced locally and is crap as well.)

http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/AerialAtlanta-7.jpg
They just got started on this one...

They attempt to alter the rolling terrain to fit their crappy slab
homes, and then everyone surrounding this mess is left to deal with
the rainwater erosion problems they have created. It's horrible...
And these damned northern industrial city transplants just eat up...

They have turned a forested jewel into a cesspool of foul pollution.
Unmanaged growth and development, crooked local government officials
hungry for money and kickbacks, and locals who sell-off to get the
hell away from what this is turning into. It's not a pretty site...
Even been to Compton, CA? Welcome home!

Sorry about the rant, but I have to live here...
It's like someone raping your child - over and over - and you're
powerless to stop them.

FWIW,

Greg G.

welcome to southern kalifornia. that's what it looks like, la to san diego,
wall to wall.

"Greg G." wrote in message
...
George said:


"Greg G." wrote in message
. ..
Greg G. said:

And while wood is definitely far cheaper here than in Clownifornia, I
live in the middle of a freaking hardwood forest - thousands of acres
of it - at least where the clear-cutters haven't gotten to yet....


NOBODY clear-cuts a hardwood forest with the expectation that it will be
one
in the future. Clear-cutting is for softwood. where it makes sense
because
the seedlings don't tolerate shading well.

No one ever claimed they wanted it to grow back. They strip it for
the hardwoods, and either leave it fallow, or build McMansions on it.
When they build here now, EVERY tree is removed. After all, don't
want those pesky song birds waking you up in the morning. And those
evil trees take up space that could be used for pavement or another
stinking, worthless house.

Like this:
http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/AerialAtlanta-2.jpg
The areas left with trees are where the locals wouldn't sell - yet.

http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/AerialAtlanta-5.jpg
There are over 20 houses in this one picture alone. This mess is
tucked in a slim alley between two older neighborhoods - that's why
there are still trees visible.

When developers originally moved into Atlanta, they built nice homes,
left the majority of the trees, and the houses actually had yards for
the kids.

But Ryland Homes and other such maggot's interpretation of
homebuilding is to strip everything - and I mean EVERYTHING.
The top soil, the trees, the rocks. All that is left is red clay.
Everything else is trucked off and sold.

When you buy a bag of potting soil at Home Depot, you don't get a well
mixed formula of perlite, vermiculite, peat moss and composted soil.
You get a bag of Georgia Forest Topsoil - even says so on the back of
the bags in very small print. It doesn't even matter what brand you
buy: Miracle Grow (crap), private brands (crap), Jungle (better),
Bayer (same crap) or Schultz (used to be a good mix, but now it's
produced locally and is crap as well.)

http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/AerialAtlanta-7.jpg
They just got started on this one...

They attempt to alter the rolling terrain to fit their crappy slab
homes, and then everyone surrounding this mess is left to deal with
the rainwater erosion problems they have created. It's horrible...
And these damned northern industrial city transplants just eat up...

They have turned a forested jewel into a cesspool of foul pollution.
Unmanaged growth and development, crooked local government officials
hungry for money and kickbacks, and locals who sell-off to get the
hell away from what this is turning into. It's not a pretty site...
Even been to Compton, CA? Welcome home!

Sorry about the rant, but I have to live here...
It's like someone raping your child - over and over - and you're
powerless to stop them.

FWIW,

Greg G.

"Greg G." wrote in message
...
mike hide said:

Here is my local supplier ,Suwannee lumber ,in Suwanee Ga . they are a
pleasure to deal with and their prices seem fair to me .Here is the web
site, see what you think in particular with regards to their selection

www.suwaneelumber.com.

I knew of them but haven't actually tried them, due to the distance.
But their prices look better - and I saw no surcharges. It's a pretty
good ride from here, however, I'd have to stock up to pay for the
trip. Now if I can get SWMBO to give up that useless dining room for
wood storage...

Thanks,


Greg

Yes a long ride for me also, I live in Atlanta guess abot 20 miles round
trip .One other thing they have a shed with a good quantity of odds of all
kinds for knock down prices. So if you need the odd piece of oak etc it is a
good deal .last time I was up there I found some nice pieces of Hickory
[which I thought was oak ].....mjh

Charles Spitzer said:

welcome to southern kalifornia. that's what it looks like, la to san diego,
wall to wall.

I know - don't remind me. g We fly out there several times a year.
Little did I realize the first time I went to LA, back in the early
eighties, that it would follow me home just a few years later...

The in-laws live in Santa Barbara and sisters live in LA and in the
Sierras, NE of San Francisco. One writes hiking books about the
waterfalls and trails of California. One raises hybrid Orchids. One
raises kids. I've been up and down the entire state - albeit mostly
along the coast. Nice weather, but way too many people in an
artificially sustained environment. To many scam artists and price
fixing monopolies as well. Looked at your water or power bill lately?
g Rolling blackouts, my ass - more like engineered scare tactics
vying for price increases. I'm just fearful that we're heading in the
same direction...

JMHO,

Greg G.


"Greg G." wrote in message

They have turned a forested jewel into a cesspool of foul pollution.
Unmanaged growth and development, crooked local government officials
hungry for money and kickbacks, and locals who sell-off to get the
hell away from what this is turning into. It's not a pretty site...
Even been to Compton, CA? Welcome home!

Sorry about the rant, but I have to live here...
It's like someone raping your child - over and over - and you're
powerless to stop them.

FWIW,

Greg G.



Greg G.

Canada is looking pretty good right now... As is western PA.


Actually I'm in western PA where I recently found a rather small father/son
run sawmill, just north of Pittsburgh.

On my last trip up I picked up about 35-40 bf for about $80.
It was a mixed lot of 4/4 & 7/4 cherry, 4/4 WOak, 4/4 sycamore
and a 3x3x72 piece of soft maple

All rough

Add $10 for gas and still less than $3/ bf

FWIW, even the local Rocklers' sells S3S ROak for $3.50 - $4.00

Ron

On 12/1/2005 10:05 AM Duke of Burl mumbled something about the following:
Do they have the 911 thing worked out yet?


Yes they do. You have to fill out a form giving your location for it to
work (since you can have a phone number from anywhere in the US, not
just your local calling area).

--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

On 12/1/2005 10:05 AM Duke of Burl mumbled something about the following:
Do they have the 911 thing worked out yet?


If you're thinking of switching, I'll send you a reference.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

On 12/1/2005 3:55 PM Greg G. mumbled something about the following:
George said:


"Greg G." wrote in message
. ..

Greg G. said:

And while wood is definitely far cheaper here than in Clownifornia, I
live in the middle of a freaking hardwood forest - thousands of acres
of it - at least where the clear-cutters haven't gotten to yet....


NOBODY clear-cuts a hardwood forest with the expectation that it will be one
in the future. Clear-cutting is for softwood. where it makes sense because
the seedlings don't tolerate shading well.


No one ever claimed they wanted it to grow back. They strip it for
the hardwoods, and either leave it fallow, or build McMansions on it.
When they build here now, EVERY tree is removed. After all, don't
want those pesky song birds waking you up in the morning. And those
evil trees take up space that could be used for pavement or another
stinking, worthless house.

Like this:
http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/AerialAtlanta-2.jpg
The areas left with trees are where the locals wouldn't sell - yet.

http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/AerialAtlanta-5.jpg
There are over 20 houses in this one picture alone. This mess is
tucked in a slim alley between two older neighborhoods - that's why
there are still trees visible.

When developers originally moved into Atlanta, they built nice homes,
left the majority of the trees, and the houses actually had yards for
the kids.

But Ryland Homes and other such maggot's interpretation of
homebuilding is to strip everything - and I mean EVERYTHING.
The top soil, the trees, the rocks. All that is left is red clay.
Everything else is trucked off and sold.

When you buy a bag of potting soil at Home Depot, you don't get a well
mixed formula of perlite, vermiculite, peat moss and composted soil.
You get a bag of Georgia Forest Topsoil - even says so on the back of
the bags in very small print. It doesn't even matter what brand you
buy: Miracle Grow (crap), private brands (crap), Jungle (better),
Bayer (same crap) or Schultz (used to be a good mix, but now it's
produced locally and is crap as well.)

http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/AerialAtlanta-7.jpg
They just got started on this one...

They attempt to alter the rolling terrain to fit their crappy slab
homes, and then everyone surrounding this mess is left to deal with
the rainwater erosion problems they have created. It's horrible...
And these damned northern industrial city transplants just eat up...

They have turned a forested jewel into a cesspool of foul pollution.
Unmanaged growth and development, crooked local government officials
hungry for money and kickbacks, and locals who sell-off to get the
hell away from what this is turning into. It's not a pretty site...
Even been to Compton, CA? Welcome home!

Sorry about the rant, but I have to live here...
It's like someone raping your child - over and over - and you're
powerless to stop them.

FWIW,

Greg G.


Greg,
You need to move out of metro. I live 40 miles from 285, my closest
neighbor is 150 ft away through the woods and I can't see his house, and
if I was to drive to his house, it's damn near a 1/4 mile drive (the
neighbor on the other side would be almost a mile drive door to door).

--
Odinn - thinking it's almost time to move to the country.

On 12/1/2005 1:42 PM mike hide mumbled something about the following:
Here is my local supplier ,Suwannee lumber ,in Suwanee Ga . they are a
pleasure to deal with and their prices seem fair to me .Here is the web
site, see what you think in particular with regards to their selection

www.suwaneelumber.com.



I need to head up there soon and pick up a couple sheets of 1/4" birch
ply for some kitchen cabinet finishing (store bought cabinets that I
just need to finish up the ends).

--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

On 12/1/2005 5:30 PM mike hide mumbled something about the following:
"Greg G." wrote in message
...

mike hide said:


Here is my local supplier ,Suwannee lumber ,in Suwanee Ga . they are a
pleasure to deal with and their prices seem fair to me .Here is the web
site, see what you think in particular with regards to their selection

www.suwaneelumber.com.

I knew of them but haven't actually tried them, due to the distance.
But their prices look better - and I saw no surcharges. It's a pretty
good ride from here, however, I'd have to stock up to pay for the
trip. Now if I can get SWMBO to give up that useless dining room for
wood storage...

Thanks,


Greg


Yes a long ride for me also, I live in Atlanta guess abot 20 miles round
trip .One other thing they have a shed with a good quantity of odds of all
kinds for knock down prices. So if you need the odd piece of oak etc it is a
good deal .last time I was up there I found some nice pieces of Hickory
[which I thought was oak ].....mjh



Closer for you than for me. 60 mile round trip (I used to work just a
couple miles from them on Satellite), but then again, the closest Lowe's
to me is almost 40 miles round trip.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

Odinn said:

On 12/1/2005 3:55 PM Greg G. mumbled something about the following:

Sorry about the rant, but I have to live here...

Greg,
You need to move out of metro. I live 40 miles from 285, my closest
neighbor is 150 ft away through the woods and I can't see his house, and
if I was to drive to his house, it's damn near a 1/4 mile drive (the
neighbor on the other side would be almost a mile drive door to door).

What town are you nearest to?

I don't disagree - but I also need to have to have certain vital
services - like High Speed Internet - for income. We do programming
and system support work from home. I doubt I'll be making enough at
woodworking to cover our expenses. g

I actually drove to Cartersville for 2 years, subcontracting a job
there, 50 miles out of Atlanta, and no sooner than I got there, the
developers began clearing out the farmlands...

Of course, the proximity of the Interstate doesn't help in that
regard... We even looked around northern Alabama, outside of
Huntsville as a possible solution.

Same with Florida. Moved there in '90, and moved to 4 different
cities before I gave up and moved back here.

It like a plague, and I'm the carrier. :-\ I'm getting to the
point that when I see Caterpillar yellow, I drop into a
pseudo-epileptic fit. I've lived in cities, and don't like it.

No single species should have such exclusive and overwhelming
dominance over any area. It just ain't healthy, I tell ya...

And before I forget, thanks for the link to the Bobtail Critter
Sawmill. This is about what I'm looking for...


Greg G.

On 12/2/2005 12:49 AM Greg G. mumbled something about the following:
Odinn said:


On 12/1/2005 3:55 PM Greg G. mumbled something about the following:


Sorry about the rant, but I have to live here...

Greg,
You need to move out of metro. I live 40 miles from 285, my closest
neighbor is 150 ft away through the woods and I can't see his house, and
if I was to drive to his house, it's damn near a 1/4 mile drive (the
neighbor on the other side would be almost a mile drive door to door).


What town are you nearest to?

3.5 miles from a little town called Bethlehem (pop 320).

I don't disagree - but I also need to have to have certain vital
services - like High Speed Internet - for income. We do programming
and system support work from home. I doubt I'll be making enough at
woodworking to cover our expenses. g

I have high speed internet via cable. I'm in the computer industry as
well (Sr. Unix Architect used to be a Software Engineer - don't you just
love the names they use to glorify programmer and sysadmin positions)
and require it (I had satellite for a while, which barely managed).

I actually drove to Cartersville for 2 years, subcontracting a job
there, 50 miles out of Atlanta, and no sooner than I got there, the
developers began clearing out the farmlands...

Of course, the proximity of the Interstate doesn't help in that
regard... We even looked around northern Alabama, outside of
Huntsville as a possible solution.

Same with Florida. Moved there in '90, and moved to 4 different
cities before I gave up and moved back here.

It like a plague, and I'm the carrier. :-\ I'm getting to the
point that when I see Caterpillar yellow, I drop into a
pseudo-epileptic fit. I've lived in cities, and don't like it.

No single species should have such exclusive and overwhelming
dominance over any area. It just ain't healthy, I tell ya...

And before I forget, thanks for the link to the Bobtail Critter
Sawmill. This is about what I'm looking for...

Okay, don't move out here, it's already getting too crowded. We had a
traffic jam on my road yesterday (I was behind 2 cars doing 43 in a 45
mph zone) and I don't need it worse.

--
Odinn - seriously thinking of moving to the country before it gets too
crowded.

On my 21st birthday, I called home (Westchester County, in New York) from
Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii. Cost of a 20 minute call was about $115. A long damned
time ago, and at that time I was making, if memory serves, about $124 a
month, net. Lance corporal, USMC. Big boost the next year, going to E4 and
over 3. Up to $170 a month.

Charlie you are younger then me.... I still remember my first check
from the US Army... $18.46 cents...NET ...and 16 bucks of that was
traveling pay from Ft Bragg to Walter Reed... That check I really
should have not cashed ..I should have had it framed and hung it on my
wall...

Prices are relative,,, My home cost less then $25,000 when I
purchased it in 1965 ...When my dad died a few years ago I discovered
he paid either $1160 or $1610 for my entire 1st year in college when I
was going thru his things... even laughed at his comment that I better
cut my beer consumption because he was going broke "supporting" me...

My first job in High School was at a burger joint... we sold them fro
15 cents each..or 7 for a dollar... My 1951 V8 Hot Rod drank gas that
cost me 19 cents a gallon... and ran on "May Pop" brand tires ..like
one just may pop... at any time...I think I averaged 2-3 flat tires a
week...

Now back to the original posters comments... I have no idea if I can
afford to continue buying wood... Before I retired I stock piled a
lifetime supply of Walnut, Cherry and Poplar...(what A laugh...I must
have died a few years ago because it only took about 5 years before I
had to float a loan to buy a small supply to make my Daughters dinning
room set...(Table & Hutch,...no darn chairs...) ..

Fricken scary ...what EVERYTHING costs now...

My "Real Estate" Taxes per year today .. are greater then what I paid
in 1965 for my mortgage (P&I and taxes)... My first "new" car was a
1965 Corvette 396 BB purchased in 1966 for $4,700 ..today just the
knock off wheels for that car are worth that much...

Honestly as much as I bitch about what I have to pay for lumber I
really feel sorry for my grandchildren and what they have to pay for a
little, but nice, townhouse with a 200 sq foot back yard.....even the
dog can not get any exercise in that small yard...

Ok..
Off my soap box...

The one check I will not have to write will be to the Funeral Home...
what a good though that is... Maybe I should run out and buy some pine
for a "box" today.... who knows what the wife will have to pay per Bf
of that crap in a few years...

Bob G...

"Bob G." wrote in message
...

On my 21st birthday, I called home (Westchester County, in New York) from
Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii. Cost of a 20 minute call was about $115. A long
damned
time ago, and at that time I was making, if memory serves, about $124 a
month, net. Lance corporal, USMC. Big boost the next year, going to E4 and
over 3. Up to $170 a month.

Charlie you are younger then me.... I still remember my first check
from the US Army... $18.46 cents...NET ...and 16 bucks of that was
traveling pay from Ft Bragg to Walter Reed... That check I really
should have not cashed ..I should have had it framed and hung it on my
wall...

Hell, I had to be younger than somebody! That was in 1959, for anyone who
cares.


Prices are relative,,, My home cost less then $25,000 when I
purchased it in 1965 ...When my dad died a few years ago I discovered
he paid either $1160 or $1610 for my entire 1st year in college when I
was going thru his things... even laughed at his comment that I better
cut my beer consumption because he was going broke "supporting" me...

My first semester's tuition at Albany State (now the great and pretentious
University at Albany)
was 200 bucks, IIRC. and $400 for a semester in the dorms, with meals. One
semester and I went out, against the rules, and got my own apartment. It was
that or
kill a college kid.

My first job in High School was at a burger joint... we sold them fro
15 cents each..or 7 for a dollar... My 1951 V8 Hot Rod drank gas that
cost me 19 cents a gallon... and ran on "May Pop" brand tires ..like
one just may pop... at any time...I think I averaged 2-3 flat tires a
week...

Now back to the original posters comments... I have no idea if I can
afford to continue buying wood... Before I retired I stock piled a
lifetime supply of Walnut, Cherry and Poplar...(what A laugh...I must
have died a few years ago because it only took about 5 years before I
had to float a loan to buy a small supply to make my Daughters dinning
room set...(Table & Hutch,...no darn chairs...) ..

Fricken scary ...what EVERYTHING costs now...

My "Real Estate" Taxes per year today .. are greater then what I paid
in 1965 for my mortgage (P&I and taxes)... My first "new" car was a
1965 Corvette 396 BB purchased in 1966 for $4,700 ..today just the
knock off wheels for that car are worth that much...

My niece, her husband and daughter came down from LI a few weeks ago, and we
talked of
cabbages, kings, RE taxes and things. First, they are paying approximately
three times the
assessed value of my home for a similar sized place (though nicer) on Long
Island. They are also
paying approximately 16 times what I am paying in RE and school taxes. Their
tax bill is on the
order of $167 per MONTH more than I pay for a year. I was born and raised in
Westchester County, so
high RE taxes come as no surprise, but that's asinine.

Honestly as much as I bitch about what I have to pay for lumber I
really feel sorry for my grandchildren and what they have to pay for a
little, but nice, townhouse with a 200 sq foot back yard.....even the
dog can not get any exercise in that small yard...

Ok..
Off my soap box...

Our grandchildren, with minor exceptions, will scrape by. Our great
grandchildren will not. We--and this is
all inclusive--have gobbled their resources and their money. It has nothing
to do with SS, but with our allowing
idiot politicians over the past 65 years to **** away money at a rate that
would scare anyone with half a brain. We
make jokes about cost overruns and pork, and nothing EVER gets done about
it. The national debt mounts, and
we slither along--and that's how the kids will probably view us. As a bunch
of thieving snakes.

My soapbox.

The one check I will not have to write will be to the Funeral Home...
what a good though that is... Maybe I should run out and buy some pine
for a "box" today.... who knows what the wife will have to pay per Bf
of that crap in a few years...


Yeah, well...if they waste a box on me, I'll come back and haunt 'em.

"Bob G." wrote in message
...
I still remember my first check
from the US Army... $18.46 cents...NET ...and 16 bucks of that was
traveling pay from Ft Bragg to Walter Reed... That check I really
should have not cashed ..I should have had it framed and hung it on my
wall...


Remember the jump when I sewed on E-3. I was then making $ 22 per
fortnightly payday. Felt so good about it that I went out and got
married....

My first job in High School was at a burger joint... we sold them fro
15 cents each..or 7 for a dollar... My 1951 V8 Hot Rod drank gas that
cost me 19 cents a gallon... and ran on "May Pop" brand tires ..like
one just may pop... at any time...I think I averaged 2-3 flat tires a
week...


Stockboy at 0.50 / hour, but you could get a gallon for between 11 and 17
cents, _and_ a set of glasses for a fill up. The MGA cost me 1500 at three
years old.

Now back to the original posters comments... I have no idea if I can
afford to continue buying wood... Before I retired I stock piled a
lifetime supply of Walnut, Cherry and Poplar...(what A laugh...I must
have died a few years ago because it only took about 5 years before I
had to float a loan to buy a small supply to make my Daughters dinning
room set...(Table & Hutch,...no darn chairs...) ..


My daughter married a guy whose family had a few forties of timber, so when
we made the cabinets for his NASCAR memorabilia, he supplied his own black
ash. Same for all the replacement oak moldings - red oak from the "camp."
The bed will be in cherry, but I'll have to supply anything over 4/4,
because that's all they have in the barn.

Since I mostly turn firewood, my flat stock should hold out a few more
years.

In article ,
Bob G. wrote:

Fricken scary ...what EVERYTHING costs now...

Here's a website calculator I get a kick out of plugging numbers into:
http://www.minneapolisfed.org/Research/data/us/calc/
It's a Fed Resv Bank calculator for what the dollar amount in some year
would equal in another year.

That $4700 Corvette would be just shy of $30,000 today. But then
consider how much more by way of amenities and safety the C-5 or C-6 has
over that '65.

Some things are pretty much as they should be with respect to inflation.
Other things like houses and cars don't translate as easily since
there're other factors that contribute to today's prices above the cost
of building a similar one today.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

"Fly-by-Night CC" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Bob G. wrote:

Fricken scary ...what EVERYTHING costs now...

Here's a website calculator I get a kick out of plugging numbers into:
http://www.minneapolisfed.org/Research/data/us/calc/
It's a Fed Resv Bank calculator for what the dollar amount in some year
would equal in another year.

That $4700 Corvette would be just shy of $30,000 today. But then
consider how much more by way of amenities and safety the C-5 or C-6 has
over that '65.

Some things are pretty much as they should be with respect to inflation.
Other things like houses and cars don't translate as easily since
there're other factors that contribute to today's prices above the cost
of building a similar one today.
--

Yes. Average size of post WWII house: under 1000 SF. Average size of Iraq
era house, about 2800 SF. Just one thing. Of course, those Levittown houses,
starting out just over 900 SF, IMS, are now larger and selling for something
more like $350,000 than their original under 5K prices.

"Fly-by-Night CC" wrote in message

That $4700 Corvette would be just shy of $30,000 today. But then
consider how much more by way of amenities and safety the C-5 or C-6 has
over that '65.

Few years ago I was in a mall and they had a display of vintage Corvettes.
One had the original price list that was about $4200. I thought to myself,
"why didn't I have one back then as they were fairly cheap?" Then I did
some simple math and realized back they it was about a year's wages..

In article ,
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

Few years ago I was in a mall and they had a display of vintage Corvettes.
One had the original price list that was about $4200. I thought to myself,
"why didn't I have one back then as they were fairly cheap?" Then I did
some simple math and realized back they it was about a year's wages..

Right. They were for those with disposable income then as they are
today. Many of these cars were the second car in a family. Quite common
today to have at least two cars (two are practically expected!) but in
'65 not so much - evidence of spare cash for those who did have the
Corvettes and Jags.

Also consider how many toys and additional expenses we have today that
we "just couldn't live without" compared to 40 years ago: the
aforementioned 2 cars in the family; cable TV; cell phones; computers;
internet access; and expensive convenience foods (above and beyond the
Swanson TV dinners) just to name a few.

Take a look at our shop tools compared with what our fathers had! My dad
was a chemical engineer and made a middle class living but I remember
him asking for a Stanley #7 for Christmas in the very early '70s to work
on the woodwork for the house he was building us. Today most of us would
go out and buy our own as the need arises. He had a used 4" jointer, a
used radical alarm saw, a router and a belt sander. Everything else was
done by hand or he sought out a local mill to do bulk surfacing. He
would be amazed at the upper-end shop tools I have out there.

In other words, yes things cost more than they did in the good old days
but perhaps it's in part an indicator of how much extra cash (whether
in-hand or available through borrowing) is floating around - i.e. charge
what the market will bear. This is especially evident with the housing
"bubble".
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

tyvek the conquerer said:

You southern girls really can get worked up can't you?
The party is ****ing over!!
I am Tyvec the Conquerer!!
I rule the minds of your idiot children with my commercials. I prepare
your moron teenagers to be cannon fodder with my violent films. I rule
what's left of your minds with CNN and my fake voting machine.
North America is a workcamp. You will die as slaves and then we will
begin the 1000 year reign of our Master Race of Corporate Investors!
Resistance is Futile! You will be assimilated. Give me your TOPSOIL!
Now button up your bib overalls, countryboy.
Bwaaaahahahaha,....ha!!

As for the southern girls comment - Here, let me bend you over my
hitchin' post while my kinfolks make you squeal like a pig... g

As for Tyvec the Conqueror - although I can appreciate your warped
sense of humor, you probably haven't managed to conquer your
embarrassing habit of whacking off in the public restroom after seeing
a spinner at the mall, much less dominate the earth.

As for the bib overalls, Dude - I grew up in the Big City and have
never owned a pair. I spend my winters at the beaches of Florida and
California, and my leisure hours replacing defective semiconductors in
military electronic equipment on contract. I write x86 assembly code
in my sleep, and fly a Lear Jet above the clouds while your sorry butt
is humping burgers down at the corner BK.

As for the rest of it - you're pretty close to being factual there,
except that China is the workcamp, the US is the new realm of the
blind and downtrodden.

I'll give you a 7.5 on the troll meter. And I'm keeping the topsoil.

LMAO!


Greg G.

tyvek said:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 03:28:12 -0500, Greg G. wrote:

As for the southern girls comment - Here, let me bend you over my
hitchin' post while my kinfolks make you squeal like a pig... g

Isn't it "kinfolk"? Oh wait, I get it. I still say that's the best
movie Burt what's-his-name ever did. Perhaps even better than the
Bandit series?

Kinfolks is acceptable... for a colloquialism.
But never was a Burt fan, thanks.

As for Tyvec the Conqueror - although I can appreciate your warped
sense of humor, you probably haven't managed to conquer your
embarrassing habit of whacking off in the public restroom after seeing
a spinner at the mall, much less dominate the earth.

Well, I am a little wrapped up in myself- agghhhhh!!
p.s. Is it true the girls are maturing earlier and exhibiting a
general tendency towards smaller breast size?

I really wouldn't know. I prefer more seasoned women. Besides,
they put old guys like me in jail for hanging around the schoolyard.

As for the rest of it - you're pretty close to being factual there,
except that China is the workcamp, the US is the new realm of the
blind and downtrodden.

Yep, the only people who have anything are the fortune 500 gang, gov
employees and,.. um, military contractors. For the rest of us it's
crumbs,.. crumbs from the rich mans table.

I hear ya.
I was in the same situation until I shot some video of a prominent
Texas politician in a .. um.. compromising position at a park near the
Corpus Christy Navel Air Station.

Now it's Iranian Beluga Caviar and Dom - all the way.

That's all I know, see you in church.

You spend WAY too much time swapping configuration properties in
Agent. But what I'd really like to know is which one of you smart-ass
wreckers this _really_ is... Tyvek the Conqueror has never made a
post to Usenet before yesterday, and I have a sneaking suspicion that
you are actually... hmm... 220grit. :-p



Greg G.