My supply of self-harvested wood doesn't include walnut or maple, and
the small sawmill I used to frequent has been abandoned and is
currently being turned into McMansion land So...

Went to a local hardwood distributor yesterday to pick up a few board
feet of Walnut and Soft Maple. After picking out a 4/4 (13/16") 4" x
10' stick of S2S walnut and two 7' lengths of 4/4 4.5" and 6.25" S2S
soft maple, I wandered up to the checkout and was greeting by a madman
with a calculator who placed a charge of over $60 on my debit card.

WOW!

After looking over the invoice, I discovered that - in addition to the
$6.33/bd ft charge for the walnut and the $4.58/bd ft charge for the
soft maple, they have surcharges of 7% for Kiln Shrinkage and 11% for
Edge Ripping - even though the boards are rough edged. This is in
addition to the rounding-up of the board feet to nice, even increments
of one.

Is this now a universal practice? Or is this the result of living in
a wretched, overcrowded city full of corporate leeches. Heck, I might
as well go back to cabinet plywood, oak and poplar from the Borg. :-\

At these prices, it makes that Cherry tree I cut down last year and
ripped into very nice 12/4 slabs worth about $2000.
(They get $11.66/bd ft for 12/4 Cherry - edged with sapwood and pith.
A 3/4" x 4' x 8' sheet of plain sliced, veneer core cherry plywood
sells for $128.00.)

A kitchen wall cabinet with real wood frames must be worth about $400
each just in materials these days...

Another affirmation that I am in the wrong business - it's deep into
the woods with a Woodmizer for me...

What do _you_ pay locally for these examples of domestic hardwoods?


Greg G.

Greg G. wrote:

What do _you_ pay locally for these examples of domestic hardwoods?

About $6/bf for decent 12/4 cherry, and about $5.50 for 4/4 cherry.
Last time I bought walnut I think it was around $6 also. This is in
Phoenix, AZ. The lumber places I use are much more friendly about
measuring, too.

But where are you, Greg? So I know not to move there :-)

PQ

Prices are in line with my local dealer. This does not in my opinion
make them right.

I would have challenged the edge ripping charge if the boards were not
ripped to width. A bit late after leaving the store.

I've seen $10 bf for Cherry here in San Diego.

I started building some outdoor furniture out of all heart clear
redwood. A simple little bench is costing $350 in raw redwood lumber
alone.

I really believe we are being ripped on retail pricing. One could go
to a mass merchant and by a redwood bench with the same amount of
redwood for $99. It means that volume manufacturers are paying WAY
less than we that are buying retail.

Greg G. wrote:
My supply of self-harvested wood doesn't include walnut or maple, and
the small sawmill I used to frequent has been abandoned and is
currently being turned into McMansion land So...

Went to a local hardwood distributor yesterday to pick up a few board
feet of Walnut and Soft Maple. After picking out a 4/4 (13/16") 4" x
10' stick of S2S walnut and two 7' lengths of 4/4 4.5" and 6.25" S2S
soft maple, I wandered up to the checkout and was greeting by a madman
with a calculator who placed a charge of over $60 on my debit card.

WOW!

After looking over the invoice, I discovered that - in addition to the
$6.33/bd ft charge for the walnut and the $4.58/bd ft charge for the
soft maple, they have surcharges of 7% for Kiln Shrinkage and 11% for
Edge Ripping - even though the boards are rough edged. This is in
addition to the rounding-up of the board feet to nice, even increments
of one.

Is this now a universal practice? Or is this the result of living in
a wretched, overcrowded city full of corporate leeches. Heck, I might
as well go back to cabinet plywood, oak and poplar from the Borg. :-\

At these prices, it makes that Cherry tree I cut down last year and
ripped into very nice 12/4 slabs worth about $2000.
(They get $11.66/bd ft for 12/4 Cherry - edged with sapwood and pith.
A 3/4" x 4' x 8' sheet of plain sliced, veneer core cherry plywood
sells for $128.00.)

A kitchen wall cabinet with real wood frames must be worth about $400
each just in materials these days...

Another affirmation that I am in the wrong business - it's deep into
the woods with a Woodmizer for me...

What do _you_ pay locally for these examples of domestic hardwoods?


Greg G.

Greg, I can't say what most people pay just what I'd charge if you
were a walk-in customer at my business. $11 on the walnut and $13.30 on
the soft maple. Jana

On 30 Nov 2005 13:27:07 -0800, wrote:

$6.33/bd ft charge for the walnut and the $4.58/bd ft charge for the
soft maple, they have surcharges of 7% for Kiln Shrinkage and 11% for
Edge Ripping - even though the boards are rough edged. This is in
addition to the rounding-up of the board feet to nice, even increments
of one.

Greg, I can't say what most people pay just what I'd charge if you
were a walk-in customer at my business. $11 on the walnut and $13.30 on
the soft maple. Jana

Holy crap. You're not serious?

I'm guessing that part of the equasion is knowing where to look. For
example, here in Phoenix you can definitely find $8-$10/bf cherry - at
the usual suspects like Rockler, Woodcraft. And there are also
specialty shops like Woodwoker's Source that have an outstanding
selection but high-ish prices (when they're not having a sale,
anyways). But if you look you can also find less expensive places like
Spellmans, which is more of a contractor warehouse but will sell to the
general public, and Timber which is a medium-sized family owned shop in
Mesa. Both of those places have nice hardwoods that are favorably
priced compared to the others - and often the difference is 60%-100%
between them and the big guys, for the same species and cut.

Not knowing what the situation is in other markets, I'm sure it's
easier to find high prices than good ones - but maybe there are local
woodworking clubs or other resources that can point you towards better
deals?

PQ

I'm just getting into woodworking, but as it happens, I called a place
in Memphis today to inquire about wood prices. I'm not sure about some
of the terms you guys are using to describe the wood size (or
quality?), but I can get 13/16" cherry in random widths with one
straight side in lengths of 10-12 feet for $3/bd ft. They have birch
for something like $2.65/bd ft.

They also had other hardwoods, but I didn't inquire about the prices.
How does that compare to the discussion?

Greg G. wrote:
My supply of self-harvested wood doesn't include walnut or maple, and
the small sawmill I used to frequent has been abandoned and is
currently being turned into McMansion land So...

Went to a local hardwood distributor yesterday to pick up a few board
feet of Walnut and Soft Maple. After picking out a 4/4 (13/16") 4" x
10' stick of S2S walnut and two 7' lengths of 4/4 4.5" and 6.25" S2S
soft maple, I wandered up to the checkout and was greeting by a madman
with a calculator who placed a charge of over $60 on my debit card.

WOW!

After looking over the invoice, I discovered that - in addition to the
$6.33/bd ft charge for the walnut and the $4.58/bd ft charge for the
soft maple, they have surcharges of 7% for Kiln Shrinkage and 11% for
Edge Ripping - even though the boards are rough edged. This is in
addition to the rounding-up of the board feet to nice, even increments
of one.

Is this now a universal practice? Or is this the result of living in
a wretched, overcrowded city full of corporate leeches. Heck, I might
as well go back to cabinet plywood, oak and poplar from the Borg. :-\

At these prices, it makes that Cherry tree I cut down last year and
ripped into very nice 12/4 slabs worth about $2000.
(They get $11.66/bd ft for 12/4 Cherry - edged with sapwood and pith.
A 3/4" x 4' x 8' sheet of plain sliced, veneer core cherry plywood
sells for $128.00.)

A kitchen wall cabinet with real wood frames must be worth about $400
each just in materials these days...

Another affirmation that I am in the wrong business - it's deep into
the woods with a Woodmizer for me...

What do _you_ pay locally for these examples of domestic hardwoods?


Greg G.


Greg:

Your assessment is one with which I concur. What the market will bear.


Check out:
http://centurymill.com/domestic.html


Multiply by .85 to get USD from Kanuckistani Pesos.



--
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those
who have not got it.” George Bernard Shaw

wrote:
I'm just getting into woodworking, but as it happens, I called a place
in Memphis today to inquire about wood prices. I'm not sure about some
of the terms you guys are using to describe the wood size (or
quality?), but I can get 13/16" cherry in random widths with one
straight side in lengths of 10-12 feet for $3/bd ft. They have birch
for something like $2.65/bd ft.

They also had other hardwoods, but I didn't inquire about the prices.
How does that compare to the discussion?

What you got was fairly common in the SE, at least as far as pricing
goes, maybe a bit on the low side. Compared to what the others are
paying, you're in fat city. There are a lot of great features about
this area (though Memphis is a ways from here), and the sizable
hardwood forests are one major feature for woodworkers. That is also
one of the reasons much furniture making is centered around northern NC
and into South central VA.

Unfortunately, wood is neither as cheap nor as accessible around here
as it was just five years ago, but it still far cheaper than places
like Mesa where a lot of transport, and a couple extra levels of
handling, are needed.

This sounds like retail pricing to me, although it ain't bad for
retail. I'm not too familiar with Walnut pricing but Soft Maple is
often on sale for less than $3 a foot in S2S around here in CA and I
pay less than $4 for hard maple. 4/4 Cherry fluxuates from $5-$7 in
S2S. I alwasy get charged for the straight edging but it's just bundled
into the bf price at like 10 or 15 cents a foot, can't recall exactly.
They always round up the bf but around here shrinkage is left as a
personal issue.

So is this local harwood distrubuter a retail establishment or do they
server the cabinet trade? I'd try to find out who the cabinet makers
are buying from and get your stock from them. You can't always select
your stock but if they have a Will Call you can typically buy pretty
small quantities and avoid any deliver charge. All the guys around here
have no minimum and will sell to anyone at good prices.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On 30 Nov 2005 13:27:07 -0800,
wrote:

$6.33/bd ft charge for the walnut and the $4.58/bd ft charge for the
soft maple, they have surcharges of 7% for Kiln Shrinkage and 11% for
Edge Ripping - even though the boards are rough edged. This is in
addition to the rounding-up of the board feet to nice, even increments
of one.

Greg, I can't say what most people pay just what I'd charge if you
were a walk-in customer at my business. $11 on the walnut and $13.30 on
the soft maple. Jana

Holy crap. You're not serious?

Certainly, but she figured the BF, and gave a total.

Most places calculate and charge for fractional BF. First ripoff
Edge ripping 11%. never heard of that either. Ripoff #2
An if there's significant sapwood, cracked ends or otherwise unuseable
parts, they subtract some BF
Kiln shrinkage. Never heard of "shrinkage", not that kind anyway...
ripoff #3

Anyway the base $/BF seem OK, but all those "extras"

Mitch

Hi Dave, Yes, I'm serious. Jana

Mitch, I agree with #1 and #2. As for #3....you may know it as net
tally vs gross tally if you're used to buying larger lots. I don't
charge it (well, I adjust it into my bd ft price because it's less
confusing to the customer) but every other retail lumber company does
it that way. Most wholesale companies charge you for the footage and
deduct the percentage off the scale. Jana

Greg G. said:

My supply of self-harvested wood doesn't include walnut or maple, and
the small sawmill I used to frequent has been abandoned and is
currently being turned into McMansion land So...
snip
What do _you_ pay locally for these examples of domestic hardwoods?

Thanks Guys, for the feedback.

Well, since there were so many responses to my question, I'm gonna
respond to them all right here.

I'm near Atlanta, GA. SE US. Although development has been rabid for
the last 30 years, the last five years have brought absolutely
horrific changes into my area - and not _one_ for the better. Most of
the indigenous population has fled - running, not walking.

Used to get poplar for ~$1.72, Cherry for ~$3.65 and clear Walnut for
~$4.60. No surcharges - us dumb rednecks wouldn't stand for that for
a second. We'd have that guy lynched and on a rail to NYC. g
Kiln Shrinkage - get fracking serious.

Reminds me of freaking New Jersey, where if you call from Mullica Hill
to Cherry Hill (less than 15 miles and in-state) for 55 minutes,
you'll get a bill for $250. And you don't have to dial one, either.
I can make a call to south Florida far cheaper...

Anyway, all the local mills have moved away, and the closest are now
in Augusta, Alabama and Tennessee. Subsequently, the prices have
apparently risen to whatever the market will bear - plus a bit more.

Which makes me even hotter when I see these damned carpetbagger home
builders come in and clear-cut the trees, scrape the topsoil away, bag
it all up and sell it back to the same idiots who bought their poorly
constructed homes. Just because they are _used_ to paying $400,000
for a 3BR house up North, these idiots have forced the prices here way
beyond reason. Needless to say, the poor dumbasses who sold the
property to the developers for pennies on the dollar are now appalled
at how poorly they negotiated their own deals. They probably could
have made more from selling the timber.

The distributor in question is not a Rockler or Woodcraft, but a
larger, multi-state hardwood dealer who sells to commercial interests.
And yet, I see similar prices AT Rockler - sometimes even less...

And while wood is definitely far cheaper here than in Clownifornia, I
live in the middle of a freaking hardwood forest - thousands of acres
of it - at least where the clear-cutters haven't gotten to yet....

As for the shop that sells walnut for $11 and soft maple for $13.30,
I'm with Dave on this on. Cripes, let me know what state you're in so
I can black it out on my map - I _sure_ don't want to move there!

Canada is looking pretty good right now... As is western PA.

I DO know that the next time I see a tree laying in the woods, fallen
from a storm, I'm going to cut that *ucker up and haul it home!
After I cut down all the trees in our yard, of course. g

FWIW,

Greg G.

Redwood is that much now??? Geez, I salvaged a bunch of 50 year old 4x8x8
redwood beams out of a home remodel last winter. Probably 350 or so bdft.
Sounds like they are worth about $5000 now! Walnut, oak, cherry, maple,
hickory etc, shorts are $2.00 bdft here, 8' legnts run about $4 bdft. My
local lumber mill is a small hole in the wall, the
owner/operator/sawyer/salesman is great to deal with, and has many hardwoods
in stock for very reasonable prices. Plus, he can tell me where the tree
was that he cut into that lumber, which is usually in my county. You gotta
bring your mucking boots though, this place ain't no retail store! --dave


"Jerry" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've seen $10 bf for Cherry here in San Diego.

I started building some outdoor furniture out of all heart clear
redwood. A simple little bench is costing $350 in raw redwood lumber
alone.

I really believe we are being ripped on retail pricing. One could go
to a mass merchant and by a redwood bench with the same amount of
redwood for $99. It means that volume manufacturers are paying WAY
less than we that are buying retail.

Greg, My quote was a total, not by the bd ft. Jana

wrote in message
oups.com...
Greg, My quote was a total, not by the bd ft. Jana

So 3.3bf of walnut is $11? Well, that's completely different.

said:

Greg, My quote was a total, not by the bd ft. Jana

Oops! Sorry about that. Totally different situation.
Tell me where you live so I CAN move there.
I just figured you were in Cental/Southern CA.

Greg G.

HI Greg, Not a problem. I tend to think people should know what I'm
thinking when I'm writing. NE Iowa. Jana

Greg G. wrote:
: Greg G. said:

: Reminds me of freaking New Jersey, where if you call from Mullica Hill
: to Cherry Hill (less than 15 miles and in-state) for 55 minutes,
: you'll get a bill for $250.


That's roughly $4.50 per minute. I can call central Mongolia for
less than that! You need to switch phone carriers.

I'm in southern AZ, and can call anywhere in the US or Canada for
under 5 cents a minute.


-- Andy Barss

Greg wrote in
:


What do _you_ pay locally for these examples of domestic hardwoods?


Greg G.

Here in central NC, I'm usually able to pick up walnut 4/4 S2S for about $5
per BF and soft maple for $4.

-G

Andrew Barss said:

Greg G. wrote:
: Greg G. said:

: Reminds me of freaking New Jersey, where if you call from Mullica Hill
: to Cherry Hill (less than 15 miles and in-state) for 55 minutes,
: you'll get a bill for $250.


That's roughly $4.50 per minute. I can call central Mongolia for
less than that! You need to switch phone carriers.

I'm in southern AZ, and can call anywhere in the US or Canada for
under 5 cents a minute.

Oh, believe me - I don't live in New Jersey - the Garden State.
I spent a year there in 2000. The greenish-blue well water and vast
multitudes of scam-artists, and deer ticks had me racing back to the
Southern Appalachians. g

As for the phones - I believe one company held a monopoly on the land
lines there... We're talking calls _within_ the state, out of state
was different - the Feds get involved...


Greg G.

On 11/30/2005 6:25 PM Greg G. mumbled something about the following:
Greg G. said:


My supply of self-harvested wood doesn't include walnut or maple, and
the small sawmill I used to frequent has been abandoned and is
currently being turned into McMansion land So...

snip

What do _you_ pay locally for these examples of domestic hardwoods?


Thanks Guys, for the feedback.

Well, since there were so many responses to my question, I'm gonna
respond to them all right here.

I'm near Atlanta, GA. SE US. Although development has been rabid for
the last 30 years, the last five years have brought absolutely
horrific changes into my area - and not _one_ for the better. Most of
the indigenous population has fled - running, not walking.

Used to get poplar for ~$1.72, Cherry for ~$3.65 and clear Walnut for
~$4.60. No surcharges - us dumb rednecks wouldn't stand for that for
a second. We'd have that guy lynched and on a rail to NYC. g
Kiln Shrinkage - get fracking serious.

Reminds me of freaking New Jersey, where if you call from Mullica Hill
to Cherry Hill (less than 15 miles and in-state) for 55 minutes,
you'll get a bill for $250. And you don't have to dial one, either.
I can make a call to south Florida far cheaper...

Anyway, all the local mills have moved away, and the closest are now
in Augusta, Alabama and Tennessee. Subsequently, the prices have
apparently risen to whatever the market will bear - plus a bit more.

Which makes me even hotter when I see these damned carpetbagger home
builders come in and clear-cut the trees, scrape the topsoil away, bag
it all up and sell it back to the same idiots who bought their poorly
constructed homes. Just because they are _used_ to paying $400,000
for a 3BR house up North, these idiots have forced the prices here way
beyond reason. Needless to say, the poor dumbasses who sold the
property to the developers for pennies on the dollar are now appalled
at how poorly they negotiated their own deals. They probably could
have made more from selling the timber.

The distributor in question is not a Rockler or Woodcraft, but a
larger, multi-state hardwood dealer who sells to commercial interests.
And yet, I see similar prices AT Rockler - sometimes even less...

And while wood is definitely far cheaper here than in Clownifornia, I
live in the middle of a freaking hardwood forest - thousands of acres
of it - at least where the clear-cutters haven't gotten to yet....

As for the shop that sells walnut for $11 and soft maple for $13.30,
I'm with Dave on this on. Cripes, let me know what state you're in so
I can black it out on my map - I _sure_ don't want to move there!

Canada is looking pretty good right now... As is western PA.

I DO know that the next time I see a tree laying in the woods, fallen
from a storm, I'm going to cut that *ucker up and haul it home!
After I cut down all the trees in our yard, of course. g

FWIW,

Greg G.


Greg,
What area of Atlanta? I'm about 40 mile ENE towards Athens and I
haven't seen those prices anywhere near here.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

wrote in message

Hi Dave, Yes, I'm serious. Jana


Where are you located? Right now in CT I can get 4/4 walnut for $6 to $7
USD and none of the charges the OP described. Includes planing to thickness
too.

I understand where you are coming from Greg. Seems like every time I
turn around the lumber industry has found a way to squeak a bit more
out of us. Plywood dimensions keep getting thinner and thinner ( I
recently bought some 1/2" shop grade that was barely above 3/8). And my
local hardwood supplier charges a "straight Lining" charge of 10% on
all domestic lumber they carry. Claiming its S3S lumber. Can't figure
out why they just don't add it into the marked price. It artifically
makes the price on the rack look cheaper...marketing tactic I guess.
Even then I have to joint it every time and usually end up removing
more than 1/8" to get it true.
I just got some 5/4 mahogany (s2s) and it was less than an inch thick.
And the veneer on hardwood plywood is so thin these days that I reject
a sheet even if it's got a "shipping" mark on it. I know if I try and
clean it up by sanding the black mark off I risk burning right through
it. And have you bought dimensional construction lumber lately? I see
why more and more housing is using steel studs. Wood studs are
expensive and crappy. Remember the reason a 2x4 stud is 3 1/2 by 1 1/2
is because the mill cut off the bad parts. Now days it would be a tooth
pick.
Mark

Mark said:

I understand where you are coming from Greg. Seems like every time I
turn around the lumber industry has found a way to squeak a bit more
out of us. Plywood dimensions keep getting thinner and thinner ( I
recently bought some 1/2" shop grade that was barely above 3/8). And my
local hardwood supplier charges a "straight Lining" charge of 10% on
all domestic lumber they carry. Claiming its S3S lumber. Can't figure
out why they just don't add it into the marked price. It artifically
makes the price on the rack look cheaper...marketing tactic I guess.
Even then I have to joint it every time and usually end up removing
more than 1/8" to get it true.
I just got some 5/4 mahogany (s2s) and it was less than an inch thick.
And the veneer on hardwood plywood is so thin these days that I reject
a sheet even if it's got a "shipping" mark on it. I know if I try and
clean it up by sanding the black mark off I risk burning right through
it. And have you bought dimensional construction lumber lately? I see
why more and more housing is using steel studs. Wood studs are
expensive and crappy. Remember the reason a 2x4 stud is 3 1/2 by 1 1/2
is because the mill cut off the bad parts. Now days it would be a tooth
pick.
Mark

Yeah, the sad thing is, I looked at every piece of 'cabinet' plywood
in the place, there was a lot of it, and every sheet of 3/4" was 5
rough plys and the veneer was paper thin. Best looking stuff in there
was some Baltic birch in odd sizes. I think it was 15 ply - Imported.

I'm going to have to find a better shop - preferably down a long dirt
road in the middle of nowhere - owned by a guy who has been there 40
years, and who built and maintains his own equipment.

I actually went there looking for totally rough lumber.
Honest to God 4/4 stuff. You end up having to surface it anyway, and
their equipment alignment generally leaves much to be desired.
A board edged at 87 degrees is wasted wood - not to mention that wave
in the middle. And I _will_ take a dial caliper with me next time...

My first home was constructed of 2x4s that actually measured
1 5/8" x 3 5/8" - imagine that...


Greg G.

Odinn said:

Greg G. said:

My supply of self-harvested wood doesn't include walnut or maple, and
the small sawmill I used to frequent has been abandoned and is
currently being turned into McMansion land So...

snip

What do _you_ pay locally for these examples of domestic hardwoods?

Greg,
What area of Atlanta? I'm about 40 mile ENE towards Athens and I
haven't seen those prices anywhere near here.

I'm on the west side, 12 miles out from Buckhead.
Know of a good place?


Greg G.

Andrew Barss wrote:
Greg G. wrote:
: Greg G. said:

: Reminds me of freaking New Jersey, where if you call from Mullica Hill
: to Cherry Hill (less than 15 miles and in-state) for 55 minutes,
: you'll get a bill for $250.


That's roughly $4.50 per minute. I can call central Mongolia for
less than that! You need to switch phone carriers.

I'm in southern AZ, and can call anywhere in the US or Canada for
under 5 cents a minute.

We have a Verizon set up for $59 a month that allows unlimited calling
within the U.S. and Canada. No time limits, not set times, zip, nada,
zilch. It sounds a bit high at first, but even at nickel a word, you
can run up some major charges when your wife calls her parents or
siblinigs and yaks for a couple, three hours, three or four times a
week (among the joys of aging parents is keeping track of their well
being from several hundred miles away).

On 12/1/2005 5:40 AM Charlie Self mumbled something about the following:
Andrew Barss wrote:

Greg G. wrote:
: Greg G. said:

: Reminds me of freaking New Jersey, where if you call from Mullica Hill
: to Cherry Hill (less than 15 miles and in-state) for 55 minutes,
: you'll get a bill for $250.


That's roughly $4.50 per minute. I can call central Mongolia for
less than that! You need to switch phone carriers.

I'm in southern AZ, and can call anywhere in the US or Canada for
under 5 cents a minute.


We have a Verizon set up for $59 a month that allows unlimited calling
within the U.S. and Canada. No time limits, not set times, zip, nada,
zilch. It sounds a bit high at first, but even at nickel a word, you
can run up some major charges when your wife calls her parents or
siblinigs and yaks for a couple, three hours, three or four times a
week (among the joys of aging parents is keeping track of their well
being from several hundred miles away).


I switched to VoIP (Sunrocket) over my high speed cable. $200 a year
(that's like $16.67 a month), unlimited calling US and Canada. There is
the issue of having no phone if the internet is out, but I have a cell
phone for those few times when that happens.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

On 12/1/2005 12:48 AM Greg G. mumbled something about the following:
Odinn said:


Greg G. said:


My supply of self-harvested wood doesn't include walnut or maple, and
the small sawmill I used to frequent has been abandoned and is
currently being turned into McMansion land So...

snip

What do _you_ pay locally for these examples of domestic hardwoods?

Greg,
What area of Atlanta? I'm about 40 mile ENE towards Athens and I
haven't seen those prices anywhere near here.


I'm on the west side, 12 miles out from Buckhead.
Know of a good place?


Greg G.

Georgia Hardwoods in Buford
Atlanta Wood Products - South Cobb Dr and River Rd
Peachstate Lumber in Kennesaw
Suwanee Lumber Co. in Suwanee


You might want to check out http://www.woodworkersguildofga.com and look
at the forum. Occassionally someone is selling lumber.

If you don't mind air dried rough lumber, check out
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-bobtailcritter
He's located north of Buford.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

"Greg G." wrote in message
...
Greg G. said:

And while wood is definitely far cheaper here than in Clownifornia, I
live in the middle of a freaking hardwood forest - thousands of acres
of it - at least where the clear-cutters haven't gotten to yet....


NOBODY clear-cuts a hardwood forest with the expectation that it will be one
in the future. Clear-cutting is for softwood. where it makes sense because
the seedlings don't tolerate shading well.

I really doubt that it's much different down there either from a sivaculture
or tax standpoint

"Odinn" wrote in message
...



I switched to VoIP (Sunrocket) over my high speed cable. $200 a year
(that's like $16.67 a month), unlimited calling US and Canada. There is
the issue of having no phone if the internet is out, but I have a cell
phone for those few times when that happens.


Are you sure there is unlimited calling? I got a solicitation through the
mail and there was a 100 minute limit for long distance.

"Leon" wrote in message
om...


Are you sure there is unlimited calling? I got a solicitation through the
mail and there was a 100 minute limit for long distance.


Woops I am wrong. Unlimited calling it is.

Do they have the 911 thing worked out yet?

Charlie Self wrote:

We have a Verizon set up for $59 a month that allows unlimited calling
within the U.S. and Canada. No time limits, not set times, zip, nada,
zilch.

I can get that in Saskatchewan for $25CAD a month, $30 if I didn't
already get high-speed internet from them too.

It's amazing how long-distance prices are dropping.

Chris

Duke of Burl wrote:
Do they have the 911 thing worked out yet?


Sort of. Some, like ViaTalk, do. I use them, they're OK.

-jav

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
Charlie Self wrote:

We have a Verizon set up for $59 a month that allows unlimited calling
within the U.S. and Canada. No time limits, not set times, zip, nada,
zilch.

I can get that in Saskatchewan for $25CAD a month, $30 if I didn't already
get high-speed internet from them too.

It's amazing how long-distance prices are dropping.

Chris

On my 21st birthday, I called home (Westchester County, in New York) from
Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii. Cost of a 20 minute call was about $115. A long damned
time ago, and at that time I was making, if memory serves, about $124 a
month, net. Lance corporal, USMC. Big boost the next year, going to E4 and
over 3. Up to $170 a month.

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
Charlie Self wrote:

We have a Verizon set up for $59 a month that allows unlimited calling
within the U.S. and Canada. No time limits, not set times, zip, nada,
zilch.

I can get that in Saskatchewan for $25CAD a month, $30 if I didn't already
get high-speed internet from them too.

It's amazing how long-distance prices are dropping.


Yep, when it was one talk per copper pair there was more demand than supply.
Economics 101.

How do they work the taxes? US folks have taxes to provide "essential
service" to the poor, excise, connection taxes and 9-1-1 assessments. Do
these internet-based outfits charge them, or do they fall under the "can't
tax the internet" legislation?