I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a
non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the
middle.)

I ordered a set of forstner bits from Lee Valley that came in today,
and their chippers are about 10 - 12 degrees off of straight. My first
thought was that, hey, maybe (probably!) LV knows a lot more about
drilling angles than I do, and maybe somehow these will still drill a
flat-bottomed hole.

Not even close...the hole has the obvious brad point "divot," and then
the bottom slopes downward towards the rim by about 10 - 12 degrees.

Am I missing something here? Does anyone else have any experience with
these bits?

Not only that, but the 1/2" bit didn't have a smooth rim...there was a
decent-sized divot on it.

These bits are made in China, which I didn't know in advance or I
certainly wouldn't have bought them. (Let's be fair...LV doesn't claim
they're of US or Canadian origin.)

Lee Valley is a great outfit...I've bought enough of their products to
say that unequivocally. But can anyone enlighten me on why these bits
are "shaped" like this? Are anyone else's forstners shaped like this?

Thanks in advance.

Take them back. LV will either refund or replace them.

--
PDQ

--
wrote in message oups.com...
| I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a
| non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the
| middle.)
|
| I ordered a set of forstner bits from Lee Valley that came in today,
| and their chippers are about 10 - 12 degrees off of straight. My first
| thought was that, hey, maybe (probably!) LV knows a lot more about
| drilling angles than I do, and maybe somehow these will still drill a
| flat-bottomed hole.
|
| Not even close...the hole has the obvious brad point "divot," and then
| the bottom slopes downward towards the rim by about 10 - 12 degrees.
|
| Am I missing something here? Does anyone else have any experience with
| these bits?
|
| Not only that, but the 1/2" bit didn't have a smooth rim...there was a
| decent-sized divot on it.
|
| These bits are made in China, which I didn't know in advance or I
| certainly wouldn't have bought them. (Let's be fair...LV doesn't claim
| they're of US or Canadian origin.)
|
| Lee Valley is a great outfit...I've bought enough of their products to
| say that unequivocally. But can anyone enlighten me on why these bits
| are "shaped" like this? Are anyone else's forstners shaped like this?
|
| Thanks in advance.
|

wrote:
I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a
non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the
middle.)

Am I missing something here? Does anyone else have any experience with
these bits?

Not only that, but the 1/2" bit didn't have a smooth rim...there was a
decent-sized divot on it.

Coincidentally, I just bought a set of these and they were fine. Flat
bottom holes, smooth rims.

I'd take yours back and get them replaced.

Chris

I have some of their Forstner bits and get flat bottomed holes (except the
divot of course). I'd take them back and show them what's going on.
Cheers,
cc

wrote in message
oups.com...
I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a
non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the
middle.)

I ordered a set of forstner bits from Lee Valley that came in today,
and their chippers are about 10 - 12 degrees off of straight. My first
thought was that, hey, maybe (probably!) LV knows a lot more about
drilling angles than I do, and maybe somehow these will still drill a
flat-bottomed hole.

Not even close...the hole has the obvious brad point "divot," and then
the bottom slopes downward towards the rim by about 10 - 12 degrees.

Am I missing something here? Does anyone else have any experience with
these bits?

Not only that, but the 1/2" bit didn't have a smooth rim...there was a
decent-sized divot on it.

These bits are made in China, which I didn't know in advance or I
certainly wouldn't have bought them. (Let's be fair...LV doesn't claim
they're of US or Canadian origin.)

Lee Valley is a great outfit...I've bought enough of their products to
say that unequivocally. But can anyone enlighten me on why these bits
are "shaped" like this? Are anyone else's forstners shaped like this?

Thanks in advance.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a
non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the
middle.)


By forstner you do mean forstner and not the saw tooth bits, right. There
are many look alike forstner bits that do not deliver the results of a true
forstner bit.

On 16/11/2005 11:34 PM, Leon wrote:

By forstner you do mean forstner and not the saw tooth bits, right. There
are many look alike forstner bits that do not deliver the results of a true
forstner bit.

Indeed. The LV description of their sawtooth bits seems to indicate that
they *won't* drill a completely-flat-bottomed hole:

"Both styles have slightly sloped chipping bevels so that bits ride a
shallow cone of wood to keep them boring straight. Center brads can then
be shorter, increasing bit versatility in thin material."

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,180,42240

Doug Payne wrote:

Indeed. The LV description of their sawtooth bits seems to indicate that
they *won't* drill a completely-flat-bottomed hole:

"Both styles have slightly sloped chipping bevels so that bits ride a
shallow cone of wood to keep them boring straight. Center brads can then
be shorter, increasing bit versatility in thin material."

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,180,42240

You're right, Doug...I didn't see that part. However, that may be
because I was reading the other page on their forstner bits, where they
specifically say, "The bit gives a cleanly cut, flat-bottomed hole
ideal for plugging."

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,180,42240

Then even show a picture of a perfectly flat-bottomed hole as a
feature.

Regardless, I don't know who the hell would knowingly buy a forstner
bit that drilled a volcano-bottomed hole into a board, so these will go
back.

This is the second time I've found an error in the specs/descriptions
Lee Valley provides in their catalogue. On their low-angle block
plane, they advertise the blade as being a 25-degree bevel. In
reality, it's a 23-degree bevel with a 2-degree micro bevel. I found
that out when I bought their MKII sharpening jig, only to find it
didn't have a pre-set angle to sharpen their own blade. That certainly
wasn't a big enough deal to warrant a return, but the volcano bits are
going back.

wrote in message
ups.com...
You're right, Doug...I didn't see that part. However, that may be
because I was reading the other page on their forstner bits, where they
specifically say, "The bit gives a cleanly cut, flat-bottomed hole
ideal for plugging."

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,180,42240

Then even show a picture of a perfectly flat-bottomed hole as a
feature.

Yeah, the page you linked to should perhaps say Forstner and Saw Toot bits
rather than Forstner/Saw Tooth Bits.
And the illustrations should differentiate between the two.


Regardless, I don't know who the hell would knowingly buy a forstner
bit that drilled a volcano-bottomed hole into a board, so these will go
back.

Some people don't care if the bottom is flat or not but would prefer the saw
tooth design and the advantages that come with it. I literally drill
thousands of 1-3/8" wide holes for Euro stile hinges. I am not too
concerned with a flat bottom as the top of the hinge holds the hinge flat
with the surface. I only need clean holes that are deep enough to accept
the hinge.

"Leon" wrote in message et...
|
| wrote in message
| oups.com...
| I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a
| non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the
| middle.)
|
|
| By forstner you do mean forstner and not the saw tooth bits, right. There
| are many look alike forstner bits that do not deliver the results of a true
| forstner bit.
|
|

While I agree with your sentiments, I must say that I have both the 'true' forstner and a set of 'look-alike' saw tooth bits and I find both to be excellent for their intended purposes.

The former go up to 1.5 inches and the latter go on up to 3 inches. I find the saw tooth ones much better in boring the big holes as they let the heat out and chew in better on the big holes.

When one wants clean and flat holes, nothing beats a forstner and a drill press.

--
PDQ

--

wrote in message ups.com...
|
| Doug Payne wrote:
|
| Indeed. The LV description of their sawtooth bits seems to indicate that
| they *won't* drill a completely-flat-bottomed hole:
|
| "Both styles have slightly sloped chipping bevels so that bits ride a
| shallow cone of wood to keep them boring straight. Center brads can then
| be shorter, increasing bit versatility in thin material."
|
| http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,180,42240
|
| You're right, Doug...I didn't see that part. However, that may be
| because I was reading the other page on their forstner bits, where they
| specifically say, "The bit gives a cleanly cut, flat-bottomed hole
| ideal for plugging."
|
| http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,180,42240
|
| Then even show a picture of a perfectly flat-bottomed hole as a
| feature.
|
| Regardless, I don't know who the hell would knowingly buy a forstner
| bit that drilled a volcano-bottomed hole into a board, so these will go
| back.
|
| This is the second time I've found an error in the specs/descriptions
| Lee Valley provides in their catalogue. On their low-angle block
| plane, they advertise the blade as being a 25-degree bevel. In
| reality, it's a 23-degree bevel with a 2-degree micro bevel. I found
| that out when I bought their MKII sharpening jig, only to find it
| didn't have a pre-set angle to sharpen their own blade. That certainly
| wasn't a big enough deal to warrant a return, but the volcano bits are
| going back.
|

Is it possible that these pointy 'forstners' are for drilling dowel holes? g
--
PDQ

--

Doug Payne wrote:

"Both styles have slightly sloped chipping bevels so that bits ride a
shallow cone of wood to keep them boring straight."

I just checked the bits I bought this past week.

The bevels are indeed slightly sloped, but it's on the order of 1-2
degrees. Certainly not the 10-12 degrees originally mentioned.

Chris

wrote:

This is the second time I've found an error in the specs/descriptions
Lee Valley provides in their catalogue. On their low-angle block
plane, they advertise the blade as being a 25-degree bevel. In
reality, it's a 23-degree bevel with a 2-degree micro bevel.

I noticed this as well on the blade for the low-angle jack. The same is
true for the higher-angle blade.

I was actually pleased as it made sharpening easier. I found a setting
between the original blade bevel and the "nominal" bevel, and used that
for my initial bevel. Since the original bevel is shallower, it means I
don't have to remove as much metal.

Chris

On 17-Nov-2005, wrote:

You're right, Doug...I didn't see that part. However, that may be
because I was reading the other page on their forstner bits, where they
specifically say, "The bit gives a cleanly cut, flat-bottomed hole
ideal for plugging."

While the page is a tad confusing, that paragraph is discussing
Forstner bits. The Saw-tooth bits are discussed in the paragraph
that follows and does not say anything about a flat-bottomed hole.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:

While the page is a tad confusing, that paragraph is discussing
Forstner bits. The Saw-tooth bits are discussed in the paragraph
that follows and does not say anything about a flat-bottomed hole.

While the saw tooth section doesn't specifically mention flat-bottomed
holes, the pictures are pretty clear that the chippers on both of them
are almost flat.

Chris

These are some excellent bits, high speed steel saw tooth forstners made in
China by Oldham:
http://www.toolsforless.com/cgi-bin/...pl?SKU=FBS1016 (best price)
http://www.oldham-usa.com/Products/B...FBS1016pic.htm

I drilled 12 mortises in douglas fir, sizes including 1" (bit size) x 4-1/4" and 2-2/5",
7 to 9 dips and no sharpening needed yet. These are hard steel, definitely flat cutters
and no volcanos.

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

"PDQ" wrote in message
.. .
"Leon" wrote in message
et...
|
| wrote in message
| oups.com...
| I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a
| non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the
| middle.)
|
|
| By forstner you do mean forstner and not the saw tooth bits, right. There
| are many look alike forstner bits that do not deliver the results of a
true
| forstner bit.
|
|

While I agree with your sentiments, I must say that I have both the 'true'
forstner and a set of 'look-alike' saw tooth bits and I find both to be
excellent for their intended purposes.

The former go up to 1.5 inches and the latter go on up to 3 inches. I find
the saw tooth ones much better in boring the big holes as they let the heat
out and chew in better on the big holes.

When one wants clean and flat holes, nothing beats a forstner and a drill
press.

--
PDQ

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The taper on the outer surface is intended to reduce friction and thus
heating, The chippers are deliberately sloped to assist in keeping the hole
straight. Solid rim passes to saw tooth at 1" to reduce friction and
heating because of the increased peripheral speed. If you are running them
fast or using them a lot, go for the high speed ones. Holes will not be
perfectly flat bottomed but are close enough for most purposes.

John.

"AAvK" wrote in message
news:Vk8ff.331$dv.174@fed1read02...

These are some excellent bits, high speed steel saw tooth forstners made
in
China by Oldham:
http://www.toolsforless.com/cgi-bin/...pl?SKU=FBS1016 (best price)
http://www.oldham-usa.com/Products/B...FBS1016pic.htm

I drilled 12 mortises in douglas fir, sizes including 1" (bit size) x
4-1/4" and 2-2/5",
7 to 9 dips and no sharpening needed yet. These are hard steel, definitely
flat cutters
and no volcanos.

You might want to up your standards some what. I have a forstner bit set
that I know that I have drilled over 1000 holes in Oak and MDF with a
single 1-3/8" bit and it still cuts fine, with no resharpening. This is a
15+ year old set that I paid $79 from Trendlines, German steel.

You might want to up your standards some what. I have a forstner bit set
that I know that I have drilled over 1000 holes in Oak and MDF with a single 1-3/8" bit and it still cuts fine, with no
resharpening. This is a 15+ year old set that I paid $79 from Trendlines, German steel.

Hey, that's cool! glad you got the right deal. My point is realistic as a test
and approval, however, and why pay that much for the LV bits if they are
Chinese, if the Oldhams are as well, Chinese? You got a spare 40 bucks,
pick up the set I recommend and test the **** out of them, OK? They are
still hard HSS for the money, and just as Chinese.

Besides all that I realize the quality for price you express, and what you
understand to be my shortcoming in understanding, but I am a new learner.
See the sig?

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

Leon wrote:

You might want to up your standards some what. I have a forstner bit set
that I know that I have drilled over 1000 holes in Oak and MDF with a
single 1-3/8" bit and it still cuts fine, with no resharpening. This is a
15+ year old set that I paid $79 from Trendlines, German steel.

Leon,
I can't seem to find anything on Trendlines...are they still in
business?

Leon,
I can't seem to find anything on Trendlines...are they still in
business?


I did the research... "no" they're not. http://www.trend-lines.com/ was their site.
I called all three 'phone numbers and they have all been recycled too.

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

"AAvK" wrote in message

Hey, that's cool! glad you got the right deal. My point is realistic as a
test
and approval, however, and why pay that much for the LV bits if they are
Chinese, if the Oldhams are as well, Chinese? You got a spare 40 bucks,
pick up the set I recommend and test the **** out of them, OK? They are
still hard HSS for the money, and just as Chinese.

I'd accept your argument on the condition that the company selling you the
Chinese bits backed up the warranty of what they sell as well as LV does.
Having that in mind is why LV usually gets my business.

On 18 Nov 2005 07:31:05 -0800, wrote:


Leon wrote:

You might want to up your standards some what. I have a forstner bit set
that I know that I have drilled over 1000 holes in Oak and MDF with a
single 1-3/8" bit and it still cuts fine, with no resharpening. This is a
15+ year old set that I paid $79 from Trendlines, German steel.

Leon,
I can't seem to find anything on Trendlines...are they still in
business?


hmm... didn't they morph into woodworker's source?

I'd accept your argument on the condition that the company selling you the
Chinese bits backed up the warranty of what they sell as well as LV does.
Having that in mind is why LV usually gets my business.


Yeah... Oldham gives a lifetime warrentee or guarentee, something goes wrong
you send it in to them for a replacement. They have a free phone# to find out.

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

Leon wrote:

Yeah, the page you linked to should perhaps say Forstner and Saw Toot bits
^^^ ^^^^

Eh, you're sawing much to vigorously if that's happening.

er
--
email not valid