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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a
non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the middle.) I ordered a set of forstner bits from Lee Valley that came in today, and their chippers are about 10 - 12 degrees off of straight. My first thought was that, hey, maybe (probably!) LV knows a lot more about drilling angles than I do, and maybe somehow these will still drill a flat-bottomed hole. Not even close...the hole has the obvious brad point "divot," and then the bottom slopes downward towards the rim by about 10 - 12 degrees. Am I missing something here? Does anyone else have any experience with these bits? Not only that, but the 1/2" bit didn't have a smooth rim...there was a decent-sized divot on it. These bits are made in China, which I didn't know in advance or I certainly wouldn't have bought them. (Let's be fair...LV doesn't claim they're of US or Canadian origin.) Lee Valley is a great outfit...I've bought enough of their products to say that unequivocally. But can anyone enlighten me on why these bits are "shaped" like this? Are anyone else's forstners shaped like this? Thanks in advance. |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
Take them back. LV will either refund or replace them.
-- PDQ -- wrote in message oups.com... | I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a | non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the | middle.) | | I ordered a set of forstner bits from Lee Valley that came in today, | and their chippers are about 10 - 12 degrees off of straight. My first | thought was that, hey, maybe (probably!) LV knows a lot more about | drilling angles than I do, and maybe somehow these will still drill a | flat-bottomed hole. | | Not even close...the hole has the obvious brad point "divot," and then | the bottom slopes downward towards the rim by about 10 - 12 degrees. | | Am I missing something here? Does anyone else have any experience with | these bits? | | Not only that, but the 1/2" bit didn't have a smooth rim...there was a | decent-sized divot on it. | | These bits are made in China, which I didn't know in advance or I | certainly wouldn't have bought them. (Let's be fair...LV doesn't claim | they're of US or Canadian origin.) | | Lee Valley is a great outfit...I've bought enough of their products to | say that unequivocally. But can anyone enlighten me on why these bits | are "shaped" like this? Are anyone else's forstners shaped like this? | | Thanks in advance. | |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
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#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
I have some of their Forstner bits and get flat bottomed holes (except the
divot of course). I'd take them back and show them what's going on. Cheers, cc wrote in message oups.com... I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the middle.) I ordered a set of forstner bits from Lee Valley that came in today, and their chippers are about 10 - 12 degrees off of straight. My first thought was that, hey, maybe (probably!) LV knows a lot more about drilling angles than I do, and maybe somehow these will still drill a flat-bottomed hole. Not even close...the hole has the obvious brad point "divot," and then the bottom slopes downward towards the rim by about 10 - 12 degrees. Am I missing something here? Does anyone else have any experience with these bits? Not only that, but the 1/2" bit didn't have a smooth rim...there was a decent-sized divot on it. These bits are made in China, which I didn't know in advance or I certainly wouldn't have bought them. (Let's be fair...LV doesn't claim they're of US or Canadian origin.) Lee Valley is a great outfit...I've bought enough of their products to say that unequivocally. But can anyone enlighten me on why these bits are "shaped" like this? Are anyone else's forstners shaped like this? Thanks in advance. |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
wrote in message oups.com... I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the middle.) By forstner you do mean forstner and not the saw tooth bits, right. There are many look alike forstner bits that do not deliver the results of a true forstner bit. |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
On 16/11/2005 11:34 PM, Leon wrote:
By forstner you do mean forstner and not the saw tooth bits, right. There are many look alike forstner bits that do not deliver the results of a true forstner bit. Indeed. The LV description of their sawtooth bits seems to indicate that they *won't* drill a completely-flat-bottomed hole: "Both styles have slightly sloped chipping bevels so that bits ride a shallow cone of wood to keep them boring straight. Center brads can then be shorter, increasing bit versatility in thin material." http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,180,42240 |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
Doug Payne wrote: Indeed. The LV description of their sawtooth bits seems to indicate that they *won't* drill a completely-flat-bottomed hole: "Both styles have slightly sloped chipping bevels so that bits ride a shallow cone of wood to keep them boring straight. Center brads can then be shorter, increasing bit versatility in thin material." http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,180,42240 You're right, Doug...I didn't see that part. However, that may be because I was reading the other page on their forstner bits, where they specifically say, "The bit gives a cleanly cut, flat-bottomed hole ideal for plugging." http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,180,42240 Then even show a picture of a perfectly flat-bottomed hole as a feature. Regardless, I don't know who the hell would knowingly buy a forstner bit that drilled a volcano-bottomed hole into a board, so these will go back. This is the second time I've found an error in the specs/descriptions Lee Valley provides in their catalogue. On their low-angle block plane, they advertise the blade as being a 25-degree bevel. In reality, it's a 23-degree bevel with a 2-degree micro bevel. I found that out when I bought their MKII sharpening jig, only to find it didn't have a pre-set angle to sharpen their own blade. That certainly wasn't a big enough deal to warrant a return, but the volcano bits are going back. |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
wrote in message ups.com... You're right, Doug...I didn't see that part. However, that may be because I was reading the other page on their forstner bits, where they specifically say, "The bit gives a cleanly cut, flat-bottomed hole ideal for plugging." http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,180,42240 Then even show a picture of a perfectly flat-bottomed hole as a feature. Yeah, the page you linked to should perhaps say Forstner and Saw Toot bits rather than Forstner/Saw Tooth Bits. And the illustrations should differentiate between the two. Regardless, I don't know who the hell would knowingly buy a forstner bit that drilled a volcano-bottomed hole into a board, so these will go back. Some people don't care if the bottom is flat or not but would prefer the saw tooth design and the advantages that come with it. I literally drill thousands of 1-3/8" wide holes for Euro stile hinges. I am not too concerned with a flat bottom as the top of the hinge holds the hinge flat with the surface. I only need clean holes that are deep enough to accept the hinge. |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
Leon wrote:
Yeah, the page you linked to should perhaps say Forstner and Saw Toot bits ^^^ ^^^^ Eh, you're sawing much to vigorously if that's happening. er -- email not valid |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
wrote in message ups.com...
| | Doug Payne wrote: | | Indeed. The LV description of their sawtooth bits seems to indicate that | they *won't* drill a completely-flat-bottomed hole: | | "Both styles have slightly sloped chipping bevels so that bits ride a | shallow cone of wood to keep them boring straight. Center brads can then | be shorter, increasing bit versatility in thin material." | | http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,180,42240 | | You're right, Doug...I didn't see that part. However, that may be | because I was reading the other page on their forstner bits, where they | specifically say, "The bit gives a cleanly cut, flat-bottomed hole | ideal for plugging." | | http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,180,42240 | | Then even show a picture of a perfectly flat-bottomed hole as a | feature. | | Regardless, I don't know who the hell would knowingly buy a forstner | bit that drilled a volcano-bottomed hole into a board, so these will go | back. | | This is the second time I've found an error in the specs/descriptions | Lee Valley provides in their catalogue. On their low-angle block | plane, they advertise the blade as being a 25-degree bevel. In | reality, it's a 23-degree bevel with a 2-degree micro bevel. I found | that out when I bought their MKII sharpening jig, only to find it | didn't have a pre-set angle to sharpen their own blade. That certainly | wasn't a big enough deal to warrant a return, but the volcano bits are | going back. | Is it possible that these pointy 'forstners' are for drilling dowel holes? g -- PDQ -- |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
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#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
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#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
Michael Daly wrote:
While the page is a tad confusing, that paragraph is discussing Forstner bits. The Saw-tooth bits are discussed in the paragraph that follows and does not say anything about a flat-bottomed hole. While the saw tooth section doesn't specifically mention flat-bottomed holes, the pictures are pretty clear that the chippers on both of them are almost flat. Chris |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
These are some excellent bits, high speed steel saw tooth forstners made in China by Oldham: http://www.toolsforless.com/cgi-bin/...pl?SKU=FBS1016 (best price) http://www.oldham-usa.com/Products/B...FBS1016pic.htm I drilled 12 mortises in douglas fir, sizes including 1" (bit size) x 4-1/4" and 2-2/5", 7 to 9 dips and no sharpening needed yet. These are hard steel, definitely flat cutters and no volcanos. -- Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/ |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
"AAvK" wrote in message news:Vk8ff.331$dv.174@fed1read02... These are some excellent bits, high speed steel saw tooth forstners made in China by Oldham: http://www.toolsforless.com/cgi-bin/...pl?SKU=FBS1016 (best price) http://www.oldham-usa.com/Products/B...FBS1016pic.htm I drilled 12 mortises in douglas fir, sizes including 1" (bit size) x 4-1/4" and 2-2/5", 7 to 9 dips and no sharpening needed yet. These are hard steel, definitely flat cutters and no volcanos. You might want to up your standards some what. I have a forstner bit set that I know that I have drilled over 1000 holes in Oak and MDF with a single 1-3/8" bit and it still cuts fine, with no resharpening. This is a 15+ year old set that I paid $79 from Trendlines, German steel. |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
Doug Payne wrote:
"Both styles have slightly sloped chipping bevels so that bits ride a shallow cone of wood to keep them boring straight." I just checked the bits I bought this past week. The bevels are indeed slightly sloped, but it's on the order of 1-2 degrees. Certainly not the 10-12 degrees originally mentioned. Chris |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
"Leon" wrote in message et...
| | wrote in message | oups.com... | I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a | non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the | middle.) | | | By forstner you do mean forstner and not the saw tooth bits, right. There | are many look alike forstner bits that do not deliver the results of a true | forstner bit. | | While I agree with your sentiments, I must say that I have both the 'true' forstner and a set of 'look-alike' saw tooth bits and I find both to be excellent for their intended purposes. The former go up to 1.5 inches and the latter go on up to 3 inches. I find the saw tooth ones much better in boring the big holes as they let the heat out and chew in better on the big holes. When one wants clean and flat holes, nothing beats a forstner and a drill press. -- PDQ -- |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
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What's up with LV forstner bits?
"PDQ" wrote in message .. . "Leon" wrote in message et... | | wrote in message | oups.com... | I thought the whole point of a forstner bit was that it would drill a | non-through hole with a flat bottom? (Except for the brad point in the | middle.) | | | By forstner you do mean forstner and not the saw tooth bits, right. There | are many look alike forstner bits that do not deliver the results of a true | forstner bit. | | While I agree with your sentiments, I must say that I have both the 'true' forstner and a set of 'look-alike' saw tooth bits and I find both to be excellent for their intended purposes. The former go up to 1.5 inches and the latter go on up to 3 inches. I find the saw tooth ones much better in boring the big holes as they let the heat out and chew in better on the big holes. When one wants clean and flat holes, nothing beats a forstner and a drill press. -- PDQ -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The taper on the outer surface is intended to reduce friction and thus heating, The chippers are deliberately sloped to assist in keeping the hole straight. Solid rim passes to saw tooth at 1" to reduce friction and heating because of the increased peripheral speed. If you are running them fast or using them a lot, go for the high speed ones. Holes will not be perfectly flat bottomed but are close enough for most purposes. John. |
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