"Lil' Dave" wrote in message
link.net...
"Don" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Lil' Dave" wrote
"Nehmo" wrote
How should this house be built and what should it have?

Don't live there, don't build there. You're an idiot if you do.

Then there's 1/2 a million idiots living rather well here in the target
zone
of Lee County, Florida.
You can look at history and become smarter for it, or you can go on
USENET
and blindly swing pointed sticks.



Cows have that too, its called herd instinct. Today's typical mindset,
impression that it qualifiies since the herd is doing it, doesn't involve
much higher thinking. Moo.

I can't argue with that.
I'll make sure I never own more than 1 cow at a time. ;-)

snip
Would one of those transparent plastic tent/ water purifiers that they say
to use if you're adrift at sea work on nasty flood waters? Or is it just
for getting the salt out of sea water? Anyoone know?

They work by evaporating water, which is volatile, and then condensing it on
the cool surface. Depends on the other contents, like salt, not being
volatile. For the nasty mix along the gulf coast, part of the problem is
petroleum components, which are also volatile. So it might actually produce
a product water with a higher concentration of some of the impurities.
Depends on vapor pressure, condensation temperature, etc.

Steve

Don wrote:
"EagleMtn" wrote

I dobt that a concrete wall will stop a backhoe.


Built properly, a concrete wall can stop just about anything.
Think: Hoover Dam.

Think shaped charge. :-)

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote
Don wrote:
"EagleMtn" wrote

I dobt that a concrete wall will stop a backhoe.

Built properly, a concrete wall can stop just about anything.
Think: Hoover Dam.

Think shaped charge. :-)

Think collateral damage.
Rather than try to get in the heavily reinforced front door, just chainsaw a
hole through the wall.

On 10-Sep-2005, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

How long will it take a backhoe to get through it?

In the case of the HA, their primary goal was to slow down,
not necessarily stop the cops. The large concrete blocks
in front of the concrete wall keep a backhoe at a significant
distance too. All in all, the design looks like a typical
US embassy or consulate.

Mike

Don wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote

Don wrote:

"EagleMtn" wrote


I dobt that a concrete wall will stop a backhoe.

Built properly, a concrete wall can stop just about anything.
Think: Hoover Dam.

Think shaped charge. :-)


Think collateral damage.
Rather than try to get in the heavily reinforced front door, just chainsaw a
hole through the wall.

I was talking about the dam. I'm not sure a chainsaw would be that
effective... :-)

Matt

hole through the wall.

I was talking about the dam. I'm not sure a chainsaw would be that
effective... :-)

Matt


Depends on how much time you have, and where you start using it.

As the cop was armed, and was approaching the cameraman with a threatening
tone, he deserved to be shot right in the face.
Wouldn't his wife and kids like that?

Why would a grown man (the cop) act that way?


The excuse is that the presence of a camera encourages people play TO
the camera, and thus makes them harder to control than otherwise.

The REASON is because cops are control freaks.

Put a composting toilet on the second floor.

And add a rooftop vegetable garden.
And a cistern to catch rain water.
Life could be sustained indefinitely.

Only if you've got a really big freaking roof.
What you really want is to replace the attic and
roof with a greenhouse, so as to control pests
and weather. But the people/sqft ratio is
really low, until you start investing in some
serious intensive gardening equipment.

--Goedjn

"Matt Whiting" wrote
Don wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote
Don wrote:
"EagleMtn" wrote
I dobt that a concrete wall will stop a backhoe.

Built properly, a concrete wall can stop just about anything.
Think: Hoover Dam.

Think shaped charge. :-)

Think collateral damage.
Rather than try to get in the heavily reinforced front door, just
chainsaw a hole through the wall.

I was talking about the dam. I'm not sure a chainsaw would be that
effective... :-)

Just went looking for it and couldn't find it, but, a couple weeks ago my
brother sent me a link for a chainsaw that cuts concrete.
It might not do much regarding Hoover, but I'd still like to have one in my
stable.

The answer will be a storm-proof safe room built on top of this
concrete structure. It will probably be the size of a large bathroom
and made of steel or concrete for protection against flying debris or
tree falls. It should be capable of being buttoned down and float
upright like a boat should it be dislodged. At that level of storm
intensity there is no longer any consideration of living in it to
guard your property. All you want is to survive the perfect storm and
get the hell out, a stay of less than 48 hours.

Disagreement: If you're going to this length, you should use a more
reasonable figure for time-to-rescue of 7 days. 72 hours
is the figure used for people who are trying to do the best
they can with what's available. 72 hours is what you should
keep in the trunk of your car.

Don wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote
Don wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote
Don wrote:
"EagleMtn" wrote
I dobt that a concrete wall will stop a backhoe.

Built properly, a concrete wall can stop just about anything.
Think: Hoover Dam.

Think shaped charge. :-)

Think collateral damage.
Rather than try to get in the heavily reinforced front door, just
chainsaw a hole through the wall.

I was talking about the dam. I'm not sure a chainsaw would be that
effective... :-)

Just went looking for it and couldn't find it, but, a couple weeks ago my
brother sent me a link for a chainsaw that cuts concrete.
It might not do much regarding Hoover, but I'd still like to have one in my
stable.

While I've never heard of a concrete chainsaw, they *do* make portable
concrete circular saws.

Notan

Just went looking for it and couldn't find it, but, a couple weeks ago my
brother sent me a link for a chainsaw that cuts concrete.
It might not do much regarding Hoover, but I'd still like to have one in my
stable.

While I've never heard of a concrete chainsaw, they *do* make portable
concrete circular saws.

Notan


http://www.jimslimstools.com/Cat_ICS..._Chainsaw.aspx

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:12:50 -0400, "Chris" wrote:


"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"Notan" wrote in message

Underground would prevent *all* wind damage, but the house
would have to be 110% waterproof/watertight, and have some
type of above-ground ventilation system.

House built into the side of a mountain that is above sea level. ~
preferably in a lesser earthquake zone.



Versus the mountains that are below sea-level????????????????????


Looks like all of the major concrete buildings in downtown N.O.
"survived" Katrina noting the obvious problems with windows being
blown out and the roof of the Superdome falling apart.

The dumb decicions would be the placement of critical facilities at
the ground (flooding level), for locating emergency generators,
electrical rooms, HVAC, etc. It would seem that if these were
located at higher floors to begin with, coupled with larger emergency
water tanks and fuel supplies, and perhaps a 2 week pre-placed food
supply, that these buildings would make nice shelters against future
hurricanes (even cat. 5).

Elsewhere in the city, critical cellular and municipal communications
towers should have been hardened for maximum strength and have all
generators and ground facilities elevated above the flooding level.

Beachcomber

"Notan" wrote in message
...
Don wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote
Don wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote
Don wrote:
"EagleMtn" wrote
I dobt that a concrete wall will stop a backhoe.

Built properly, a concrete wall can stop just about anything.
Think: Hoover Dam.

Think shaped charge. :-)

Think collateral damage.
Rather than try to get in the heavily reinforced front door, just
chainsaw a hole through the wall.

I was talking about the dam. I'm not sure a chainsaw would be that
effective... :-)

Just went looking for it and couldn't find it, but, a couple weeks ago my
brother sent me a link for a chainsaw that cuts concrete.
It might not do much regarding Hoover, but I'd still like to have one in
my
stable.

While I've never heard of a concrete chainsaw, they *do* make portable
concrete circular saws.

Yeah, my brother has one of those, we used it for score cutting my driveway,
and I have blades for cutting concrete/masonry for my saws.
You have to wear goggles and an aspirator, lots of smoke.
http://www.jimslimstools.com/detail.aspx?ID=1734
http://www.cessco.us/concrete_chainsaws.html

s wrote:

Just went looking for it and couldn't find it, but, a couple weeks ago my
brother sent me a link for a chainsaw that cuts concrete.
It might not do much regarding Hoover, but I'd still like to have one in my
stable.

While I've never heard of a concrete chainsaw, they *do* make portable
concrete circular saws.

Notan

http://www.jimslimstools.com/Cat_ICS..._Chainsaw.aspx

OK, *now* I've heard of a concrete chainsaw!

Notan

"Goedjn" wrote in message =
...
|=20
|
| The answer will be a storm-proof safe room built on top of this
| concrete structure. It will probably be the size of a large bathroom
| and made of steel or concrete for protection against flying debris or
| tree falls. It should be capable of being buttoned down and float
| upright like a boat should it be dislodged. At that level of storm
| intensity there is no longer any consideration of living in it to
| guard your property. All you want is to survive the perfect storm =
and
| get the hell out, a stay of less than 48 hours.
|=20
| Disagreement: If you're going to this length, you should use a more
| reasonable figure for time-to-rescue of 7 days. 72 hours
| is the figure used for people who are trying to do the best=20
| they can with what's available. 72 hours is what you should
| keep in the trunk of your car.
|=20
|=20
|=20

Seems to me Noah planned for a longer stay.
Also seems his structure was a bit bigger too.

BG


--=20
PDQ

--

"PDQ" wrote in message
...
"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

Seems to me Noah planned for a longer stay.
Also seems his structure was a bit bigger too.

You were there?

That *might* keep out the thug looters in Nawlins.

"Lee DeRaud" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:08:19 -0400, "Upscale"
wrote:

"Notan" wrote in message

Underground would prevent *all* wind damage, but the house
would have to be 110% waterproof/watertight, and have some
type of above-ground ventilation system.

House built into the side of a mountain that is above sea level. ~
preferably in a lesser earthquake zone.

Here's a turn-key design, courtesy of Uncle Sam:
https://www.cheyennemountain.af.mil/thedesign.htm

Lee

Notan wrote:

s wrote:

Just went looking for it and couldn't find it, but, a couple weeks ago my
brother sent me a link for a chainsaw that cuts concrete.
It might not do much regarding Hoover, but I'd still like to have one in my
stable.

While I've never heard of a concrete chainsaw, they *do* make portable
concrete circular saws.

Notan

http://www.jimslimstools.com/Cat_ICS..._Chainsaw.aspx


OK, *now* I've heard of a concrete chainsaw!

It didn't look to be made of concrete to me.

Matt

--
"CW" wrote in message =
ink.net...
|=20
| "PDQ" wrote in message
| ...
| "Goedjn" wrote in message
| ...
|=20
| Seems to me Noah planned for a longer stay.
| Also seems his structure was a bit bigger too.
|=20
| You were there?
|=20
|=20

There are days when I feel as if I were.

Mostly, I have to go by what I read.

--=20
PDQ

--

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:18:18 GMT, "CW" wrote:


"PDQ" wrote in message
. ..
"Goedjn" wrote in message
.. .

Seems to me Noah planned for a longer stay.
Also seems his structure was a bit bigger too.

You were there?


I think he read about it somewhere. I believe that story is in a book
that's an anthology of sorts.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:27:49 -0400, "PDQ" wrote:

--
"CW" wrote in message ink.net...
|
| "PDQ" wrote in message
| ...
| "Goedjn" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Seems to me Noah planned for a longer stay.
| Also seems his structure was a bit bigger too.
|
| You were there?
|
|

There are days when I feel as if I were.

Mostly, I have to go by what I read.

--
PDQ


well, here... read this:
http://www.venganza.org/

You know because my girlfirend lives in Monroe, LA she deserves nothing
less than a 15,000 square foor mansion. See my new post asking about
the Richardsonian Romanesque style house since my dream is to build her
(&me) a huge tornado proof mansion if I ever become rich enough. But
all of your ideas are good though.

Bottom line is 30 days! Katrina shows areas still under flood waters, well
after a week. The object is NOT rescue! I maintain 6 months food and water
in my food cellar. This will allow me to ride out the worst and be able to
relocate to safer area if need be and still maintain a solid homefront!


"Goedjn" wrote in message
...


The answer will be a storm-proof safe room built on top of this
concrete structure. It will probably be the size of a large bathroom
and made of steel or concrete for protection against flying debris or
tree falls. It should be capable of being buttoned down and float
upright like a boat should it be dislodged. At that level of storm
intensity there is no longer any consideration of living in it to
guard your property. All you want is to survive the perfect storm and
get the hell out, a stay of less than 48 hours.

Disagreement: If you're going to this length, you should use a more
reasonable figure for time-to-rescue of 7 days. 72 hours
is the figure used for people who are trying to do the best
they can with what's available. 72 hours is what you should
keep in the trunk of your car.

"HMFIC-1369" wrote
Bottom line is 30 days! Katrina shows areas still under flood waters, well
after a week. The object is NOT rescue! I maintain 6 months food and water
in my food cellar.

How much space does 6 months worth of food and water occupy?

Don wrote:

"HMFIC-1369" wrote
Bottom line is 30 days! Katrina shows areas still under flood waters, well
after a week. The object is NOT rescue! I maintain 6 months food and water
in my food cellar.

How much space does 6 months worth of food and water occupy?

More significantly, how does one prevent the flooding of the cellar or
the complete destruction of the entire dwelling given a Cat 5 or Fujita
5 storm?

Don wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote
Don wrote:
"HMFIC-1369" wrote
Bottom line is 30 days! Katrina shows areas still under flood waters,
well
after a week. The object is NOT rescue! I maintain 6 months food and
water
in my food cellar.

How much space does 6 months worth of food and water occupy?

More significantly, how does one prevent the flooding of the cellar or
the complete destruction of the entire dwelling given a Cat 5 or Fujita
5 storm?

Here in SW FL, home of the 4 hellraisers of 04', everything below the 10'
level (10' above sea level) is considered a lost cause.
FEMA specifically addresses these items in the building codes.

Precisely my point...to do what HMFIC wants in general is a very
difficult and expensive task. You can be prepared for ordinary events
pretty well and make things a lot easier on yourself, but in a
catastrophic situation things are likely to get out of hand for almost
everybody in the affected area.

"Duane Bozarth" wrote
Don wrote:
"HMFIC-1369" wrote
Bottom line is 30 days! Katrina shows areas still under flood waters,
well
after a week. The object is NOT rescue! I maintain 6 months food and
water
in my food cellar.

How much space does 6 months worth of food and water occupy?

More significantly, how does one prevent the flooding of the cellar or
the complete destruction of the entire dwelling given a Cat 5 or Fujita
5 storm?

Here in SW FL, home of the 4 hellraisers of 04', everything below the 10'
level (10' above sea level) is considered a lost cause.
FEMA specifically addresses these items in the building codes.

"Duane Bozarth" wrote
Precisely my point...to do what HMFIC wants in general is a very
difficult and expensive task. You can be prepared for ordinary events
pretty well and make things a lot easier on yourself, but in a
catastrophic situation things are likely to get out of hand for almost
everybody in the affected area.

I design large scale custom homes on the barrier islands off the coast of SW
Florida.
These homes are inherently expensive for several reasons, not just because
of the so called *personal greed* of the owners.
I've heard that upwards of 60% of the residents of NOLA were at the poverty
level or lower.
The buildings that housed these people probably won't be rebuilt.
I've also heard that most of those folks in that 60% have already been
relocated, some have jobs and are moving on with their lives, probably
aren't concerned with moving back to NOLA.
So what's left?
The infrastructure, businesses and residences.

Here, in the 130mph wind zone we address the issue 2 ways.
Either the land under the structure must place the finished floor at 10.0'
above sea level, which is what is done here on the mainland.
Or the home has got to be elevated on driven of jetted pilings so the the
finished floor is at least 10.0' above sea level.
My own home, built 3 years ago on the mainland, required more than 60 truck
loads of fill dirt to get the concrete slab up to the requirement, it also
required an additional 15 loads to do the finish grading at the end.
Each year the height requirement seems to increase, the new home across the
street from me is at least 1-1/2' higher than mine.
Its never ending around here.
In 20 years the only thing that will be allowed to be built around here will
be poured in place solid concrete domes anchored to the mantle itself with
precast 80' pilings 4' on center both ways. ;-(

On 12-Sep-2005, "Don" wrote:

FEMA specifically addresses these items in the building codes.

FEMA sets building codes?

Mike

Don wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote
Precisely my point...to do what HMFIC wants in general is a very
difficult and expensive task. You can be prepared for ordinary events
pretty well and make things a lot easier on yourself, but in a
catastrophic situation things are likely to get out of hand for almost
everybody in the affected area.

I design large scale custom homes on the barrier islands off the coast of SW
Florida.
These homes are inherently expensive for several reasons, not just because
of the so called *personal greed* of the owners.

Yes, when one attempts to do something inherently fool^h^h^h^hrisky, one
should at least make the effort to protect the investment. It's still
an area not really suitable for the use.

I've heard that upwards of 60% of the residents of NOLA were at the poverty
level or lower.
The buildings that housed these people probably won't be rebuilt.

Those that were flooded, probably not, although what is going to be done
is pretty well still in the future...

I've also heard that most of those folks in that 60% have already been
relocated, some have jobs and are moving on with their lives, probably
aren't concerned with moving back to NOLA.

Relocated, yes. Permanent location, job? I suspect that would probably
be 1%, so far.

So what's left?
The infrastructure, businesses and residences.

Some is, a of lot that isn't even left or worth the cost of rebuilding,
either. They're talking of trashing the Superdome, even, which was a
pretty substantial structure and investment.

Here, in the 130mph wind zone we address the issue 2 ways.

130 mph is strong, but certainly far below the full-force 200+ mph plus
storm surge of a head-on coastal barrage. 130 mph is "designable" for
survival at a cost that isn't totally prohibitive. As you're well
aware, that cost will escalate rapidly as the design criteria rise.

....
Each year the height requirement seems to increase, the new home across the
street from me is at least 1-1/2' higher than mine.

Guaranteeing, after the rest are elevated that the low spots will then
be flooded.


In 20 years the only thing that will be allowed to be built around here will
be poured in place solid concrete domes anchored to the mantle itself with
precast 80' pilings 4' on center both ways. ;-(

As it should be if in such a location. It simply isn't a very good
choice of location for building permanent structures. I've thought what
folks who want to live in such places should do would be to simply build
disposable houses and when the big one comes leave, planning from the
beginning to simply bulldoze and start again. Be cheaper, structurally,
albeit less convenient.

Michael Daly wrote:

On 12-Sep-2005, "Don" wrote:

FEMA specifically addresses these items in the building codes.

FEMA sets building codes?

No, not specifically. They have made some efforts particularly since
the spate of FL hurricanes to address design issues regarding roofs,
etc., for enhancing survivability. The results I've seen haven't been
uniformly successful attempts as, for one example, the guidelines for
upgrading asbestos shingle roofs apparently were developed and published
internally or w/ consulting input but not using any input from any of
the manufacturers, etc. Consequently, there are published guidelines
for which there are no commercially available materials to meet.

You know because my girlfirend lives in Monroe, LA she deserves nothing
less than a 15,000 square foor mansion. See my new post asking about
the Richardsonian Romanesque style house since my dream is to build her
(&me) a huge tornado proof mansion if I ever become rich enough. But
all of your ideas are good though.

Cat-5 Hurricane winds start at 155mph.
Tornados start at around 200mph, and
a Cat-5 tornado has wind speeds in excess of 300mph.

Wind loads appear to be calculated according to
the formula PSF=(mph^2)/250, or thereabouts.

So for a worst-case hurricane, you have to design
for side-loads (and uplift) of 160PSF, whereas
for tornadoes, its around 360PSF. For comparison,
the floor of your house is typically designed
for around 60PSF. (Of course the limit for
the floor is acceptable deflection, rather than
yield strength, so if you built your house so that
any face could be the floor, you'd probably be
OK in the hurricane.)

The good news is, if you can manage this,
floodwaters should be trivial, at least in
terms of mechanical damage.

Bottom line is 30 days! Katrina shows areas still under flood waters, well
after a week. The object is NOT rescue! I maintain 6 months food and water
in my food cellar.

How much space does 6 months worth of food and water occupy?

Less than 50 cubic feet, but not much less.
If you stored it under the bed,
the bed would have to be 32" high, plus the mattress.
It would also weigh in excess of one US statute ton,
so you might want to spread it around a bit.

(Reality check:
Dinty Moore Beef stew is 222 calories/cup,
so you need 10 cups/day. Since it comes in cans,
there's wasted space to the tune of an extra 25%
so the storage volume is 12.5 cups/day or
around 10 days/cubic foot, for food.
Counting the wasted space, water is around
7 gallons/cubic foot. with around, .4cuft
wasted space.
Figure 2000 calories/day, and 1 gallon of water.)
Use the space between cans and bottles for
vitamin supplements, other drugs, variety-food)

Each of your 1,800 cups of stew weighs
236 grams, or around 1/2 a pound,
call it 1,000 pounds of stew and can.
Each of your 180 gallons of water
weighs 8 1/3 pounds or 1500 pounds,
total.)

Note that you can probably get your food
volume/weight down if you work at it,
but most of the really lightweight/small
packaged foods depend on having a ready
supply of water to re-constitute.
Rumor has it that eating a dehydrated
ration without rehydrating it FIRST is really,
really bad. As in, may well kill you bad.

--Goedjn

"Duane Bozarth" wrote
Michael Daly wrote:
"Don" wrote:
FEMA specifically addresses these items in the building codes.

FEMA sets building codes?

No, not specifically. They have made some efforts particularly since
the spate of FL hurricanes to address design issues regarding roofs,
etc., for enhancing survivability. The results I've seen haven't been
uniformly successful attempts as, for one example, the guidelines for
upgrading asbestos shingle roofs apparently were developed and published
internally or w/ consulting input but not using any input from any of
the manufacturers, etc. Consequently, there are published guidelines
for which there are no commercially available materials to meet.

Here in Lee County they use sort of a hybrid code, geared specifically for
this area.
Its rooted in the FBC but has many added rules.
The FEMA parameters take precedent.
This whole code thing is getting to be out of control.
Its to the point now that most people design the building and then submit
for a permit and let the plans examiner determine what works and what
doesn't.
I've dotted every I and crossed the T's and still get rejected.
Its a good thing computers came along when they did because it would be very
difficult to do a set of plans by hand, with all the notes and details and
stuff that are required.

"Goedjn" wrote
Dinty Moore Beef stew is 222 calories/cup,
so you need 10 cups/day.

Jeez, 10 cups a day?
I'd be as big as a whale if I ate all that stuff! LOL
During the 5 days of Charley last year I ate very little, maybe 2 or 3 cold
chicken breasts and 3 or 4 cold sandwiches.
But I was drinking about 4 gallons of water a day, at least.
(I rigged a 220v jumper to my generator to charge the well equipment each
day. Our aerator holds 80 gallons)

The thing is, we were waiting on the edge of our seats for the power to come
back on the whole time. We were hearing on the radio the power was coming
back on in various parts of the city each day and it took a full 5 days to
restore ours. So the whole time we were sort of in turmoil, not knowing what
was going on. If we knew we'd be without power for a month or more we would
have done things differently. We had one generator but we had to use it
sparingly cause we couldn't get fuel. For a long term endeavor I'd probably
get a 2nd generator and then drive long distance to get some serious
quantities of fuel. Also, I didn't take the storm warning too seriously
(Charley made a last minute change of course and headed straight for us 3
hours prior to impact) so I was cash poor at the time and with the power out
all over the city I couldn't access any funds. The stores that were open
were accepting cash only as their equipment was down. Next time I'll have at
least $1000 cash on me.

The very center of Charley passed about 4 miles to the west of us, right up
through the Pine Island Sound and then straight up the Peace River to Punta
Gorda / Port Charlotte, so we were right on the worst edge. And yes, it does
sound like what you'd imagine a freight train sounds like. You can't really
appreciate the magnitude of 150mph wind and 300 mph microbursts by watching
it on TV, it has to be felt in person. Its a little overwhelming to realize
the very earth is attempting to kill you. LOL

I'm not a survivor nut just a Cosco, BJ, Sams kind a guy. Food really not
much space, but water is a lot, but you can cut water if using a lot of
canned foods (because of water). I keep lots of dried legumes, nuts and
fruits. I also pick up cases of ensure and power bars when on sale. But
don't laugh I actually have a river next to the house... The water is for
the little woman. I got my filtration pac.
I use 1/2 Gal. perday this is good for heat of summer. I have 20 5 gallon
and 10 1 gallon and 6 32 bottle cases. With all the food and gear 12 foot
wide by 36" deep and 8 foot high. It takes up one small wall.

The water is really no problem I get it delivered, plus we don't use tap
here many years ago it was great but the last 10 heavy chlorination. and
normal daily use is pretty consistent with morning coffee to 1 G.


"Don" wrote in message
link.net...
"HMFIC-1369" wrote
Bottom line is 30 days! Katrina shows areas still under flood waters,
well
after a week. The object is NOT rescue! I maintain 6 months food and
water
in my food cellar.

How much space does 6 months worth of food and water occupy?

We don't get much Cat 5's up here!!!!


"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Don wrote:

"HMFIC-1369" wrote
Bottom line is 30 days! Katrina shows areas still under flood waters,
well
after a week. The object is NOT rescue! I maintain 6 months food and
water
in my food cellar.

How much space does 6 months worth of food and water occupy?

More significantly, how does one prevent the flooding of the cellar or
the complete destruction of the entire dwelling given a Cat 5 or Fujita
5 storm?

The food is expensive? Look if need be I can pack a canoe or the Kayaks and
head where ever!

Don't over estimate the fear factor, in a catastrophic event, you already
beat the system if you live. Then you have to address what and where. I'm
located in a pretty good valley that protects is from all directions because
of how it follows the river. I could flood but that would have to be enough
to flood the whole valley and since it's most narrow miles north the flood
plains will handle it there. and honestly if anything does flood the food
and gear are all sealed.

I wouldn't build a house to take a Cat 5, I'd let it go and move!!!


"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Don wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote
Don wrote:
"HMFIC-1369" wrote
Bottom line is 30 days! Katrina shows areas still under flood
waters,
well
after a week. The object is NOT rescue! I maintain 6 months food
and
water
in my food cellar.

How much space does 6 months worth of food and water occupy?

More significantly, how does one prevent the flooding of the cellar or
the complete destruction of the entire dwelling given a Cat 5 or
Fujita
5 storm?

Here in SW FL, home of the 4 hellraisers of 04', everything below the
10'
level (10' above sea level) is considered a lost cause.
FEMA specifically addresses these items in the building codes.

Precisely my point...to do what HMFIC wants in general is a very
difficult and expensive task. You can be prepared for ordinary events
pretty well and make things a lot easier on yourself, but in a
catastrophic situation things are likely to get out of hand for almost
everybody in the affected area.