Hi All,
I'm a part time paint contractor and I'm thinking of including a
laminate flooring in my services (I paint mostly condos). I have layed
a couple of laminate floors myself but I used circular saw for cutting
the laminate. Now, that would work if I work during regular hours, but
condo corporations don't allow high noise after 5 p.m. and during the
weekends, which is the time when I paint mostly. So, one option will be
to do all the prep work in the evening (carpet removal, vaccuming,
subfloor laying) and to hire someone to work on the laminate during the
day. Or, to lay the laminate after hours using some low noise saw. I
found some good looking Mastercraft mitre hand saw and it looks like
that's the best option, but I still think that it must be some other
power saw on the market that is not noisy. I thought to put the power
saw in the bathroom, but noise is too strong even then. Any idea which
low noise saw can be used for laminate besides hand saw?

Thanks in advance.

"ddt_toronto" wrote in message
saw in the bathroom, but noise is too strong even then. Any idea which
low noise saw can be used for laminate besides hand saw?

Only type of portable power saw that I can think of that would be suitable
is a chop saw and they're not known for their quietness. There's usually
other options of interest than noise.
Cutting laminates for floors needs usually needs an exact 90°. Only other
option I can think of is a handsaw for the initial cut and then some type of
professional cut off box that uses a shear to cut the last 1/4" of material
to size. There's a few high end sheer cutters of that type are used in
picture making, maybe there's some that cut at 90°.

"ddt_toronto" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi All,
I'm a part time paint contractor and I'm thinking of including a
laminate flooring in my services (I paint mostly condos). I have layed
a couple of laminate floors myself but I used circular saw for cutting
the laminate. Now, that would work if I work during regular hours, but
condo corporations don't allow high noise after 5 p.m. and during the
weekends, which is the time when I paint mostly. So, one option will be
to do all the prep work in the evening (carpet removal, vaccuming,
subfloor laying) and to hire someone to work on the laminate during the
day. Or, to lay the laminate after hours using some low noise saw. I
found some good looking Mastercraft mitre hand saw and it looks like
that's the best option, but I still think that it must be some other
power saw on the market that is not noisy. I thought to put the power
saw in the bathroom, but noise is too strong even then. Any idea which
low noise saw can be used for laminate besides hand saw?

Most portable electric saws use universal motors. That is a big noise maker
by it self. Then add a blade it the sound magnifies.
Bosch makes a different type of miter saw that might be quieter. Take a
look here.
http://www.boschtools.com/tools/tool...=54928&I=55133

I wonder if you could put a router variable speed control on it to
dampen the sound.

Other wise, you may want to try a jig saw or battery operated
mini-circular saw with a jig to keep it cutting straight. Jig saws are
pretty quiet.

How about one of those battery powered circular saws and a good cross
cut jig of some sort. You'll still have the sound of the teeth hitting
the wood, but the motor noise should be much lower than a tablesaw.

Chuck

A decent belt-drive contractor's saw with a capacitor-start motor has very
low motor noise. It's those little ones with the universal motors that
generate all the noise. The actual cutting noise contribution will be the
same. A slow going cross-cut with a quality, fine-toothed carbide blade
shouldn't be too loud.

I've used one of those battery drive circular saws and while they are
quieter that their AC counterparts, they are still louder than a
capacitor-start motor on a belt-drive stationary saw.

Tim Ellestad

"Woodchuck34" wrote in message
ups.com...
How about one of those battery powered circular saws and a good cross
cut jig of some sort. You'll still have the sound of the teeth hitting
the wood, but the motor noise should be much lower than a tablesaw.

Chuck

If low noise is critical, I'd go with the manual miter box. I've got a
Craftsman that has done a wonderful job. It has a wooden base that I
modified slightly and will clamp tightly in a Workmate bench. It has a
"captive" blade so that once set, even a monkey could make precise cuts.
Something like:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?
BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00936343000&s ubcat=Miter+Boxes

(sorry about long url, it's a Craftsman Full Range Compounding Miter Box,
Sears item #00936343000 Mfr. model #36343 )

ddt_toronto wrote:
Hi All,
I'm a part time paint contractor and I'm thinking of including a
laminate flooring in my services (I paint mostly condos). I have layed
a couple of laminate floors myself but I used circular saw for cutting
the laminate. Now, that would work if I work during regular hours, but
condo corporations don't allow high noise after 5 p.m. and during the
weekends, which is the time when I paint mostly. So, one option will be
to do all the prep work in the evening (carpet removal, vaccuming,
subfloor laying) and to hire someone to work on the laminate during the
day. Or, to lay the laminate after hours using some low noise saw. I
found some good looking Mastercraft mitre hand saw and it looks like
that's the best option, but I still think that it must be some other
power saw on the market that is not noisy. I thought to put the power
saw in the bathroom, but noise is too strong even then. Any idea which
low noise saw can be used for laminate besides hand saw?

Thanks in advance.


Horizontal Bandsaw

http://www.southern-tool.com/store/l..._bandsaws.html

http://www.southern-tool.com/store/m..._bandsaws.html

A guy had a small one at a job site a few years ago. Don't
remember the name but it was easily carried by one person.

Normally used for metalwork.

Quiet compared to any circular saw.

On 9 Aug 2005 08:20:34 -0700, the opaque "ddt_toronto"
clearly wrote:

power saw on the market that is not noisy. I thought to put the power
saw in the bathroom, but noise is too strong even then. Any idea which
low noise saw can be used for laminate besides hand saw?

Try a Japanese style saw. They're quieter than any power saw and
quieter than Western saws. They cut about 3 t imes quicker with
one third the effort of a Western saw, too. $26 gets a good one
for you from www.JapanWoodworker.com . 1-800-537-7820 Asl for the
hardwood razor saw. You saw the ad in Fine Woodworking for $25.95
post paid!

--
-------------------------------------------------------
Never underestimate the innate animosity of inanimate objects.
----
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications

Larry Jaques wrote:
On 9 Aug 2005 08:20:34 -0700, the opaque "ddt_toronto"
clearly wrote:

power saw on the market that is not noisy. I thought to put the power
saw in the bathroom, but noise is too strong even then. Any idea
which low noise saw can be used for laminate besides hand saw?

Try a Japanese style saw. They're quieter than any power saw and
quieter than Western saws. They cut about 3 t imes quicker with
one third the effort of a Western saw, too. $26 gets a good one
for you from www.JapanWoodworker.com . 1-800-537-7820 Asl for the
hardwood razor saw. You saw the ad in Fine Woodworking for $25.95
post paid!

Ditto on that. They are excellent - a bit more fragile than 'Western' saws
but a lovely fast smooth cut.

Apart from that I was going to suggest a scrollsaw - quiet, but not
necessarily fast or straight lines...

It's going to be kind of difficult to cut an 8' long laminate board in half
with most scroll saws I've seen. Otherwise I would have suggested a
small bandsaw. I used to get away with running my bandsaw in my basement
shop when the kids were asleep; it was about the only (powered) saw I could
get away with that. Even now, it's the only one of my saws I don't usually
wear ear protection for. Well, the mitre saw I don't, but it's usually only
a quick cut or two.

Clint

"PC Paul" wrote in message
. uk...
Larry Jaques wrote:
On 9 Aug 2005 08:20:34 -0700, the opaque "ddt_toronto"
clearly wrote:

power saw on the market that is not noisy. I thought to put the power
saw in the bathroom, but noise is too strong even then. Any idea
which low noise saw can be used for laminate besides hand saw?

Try a Japanese style saw. They're quieter than any power saw and
quieter than Western saws. They cut about 3 t imes quicker with
one third the effort of a Western saw, too. $26 gets a good one
for you from www.JapanWoodworker.com . 1-800-537-7820 Asl for the
hardwood razor saw. You saw the ad in Fine Woodworking for $25.95
post paid!

Ditto on that. They are excellent - a bit more fragile than 'Western' saws
but a lovely fast smooth cut.

Apart from that I was going to suggest a scrollsaw - quiet, but not
necessarily fast or straight lines...

"L M" wrote in message
...
ddt_toronto wrote:
Hi All,
I'm a part time paint contractor and I'm thinking of including a
laminate flooring in my services (I paint mostly condos). I have layed
a couple of laminate floors myself but I used circular saw for cutting
the laminate. Now, that would work if I work during regular hours, but
condo corporations don't allow high noise after 5 p.m. and during the
weekends, which is the time when I paint mostly. So, one option will be
to do all the prep work in the evening (carpet removal, vaccuming,
subfloor laying) and to hire someone to work on the laminate during the
day. Or, to lay the laminate after hours using some low noise saw. I
found some good looking Mastercraft mitre hand saw and it looks like
that's the best option, but I still think that it must be some other
power saw on the market that is not noisy. I thought to put the power
saw in the bathroom, but noise is too strong even then. Any idea which
low noise saw can be used for laminate besides hand saw?

Thanks in advance.


Horizontal Bandsaw

http://www.southern-tool.com/store/l..._bandsaws.html

http://www.southern-tool.com/store/m..._bandsaws.html

A guy had a small one at a job site a few years ago. Don't
remember the name but it was easily carried by one person.

Normally used for metalwork.

Quiet compared to any circular saw.

Grizzly has those too.

Low cost solution. I used one for metal work. But they came in handy for
cutting many other materials. Just buy the right kind of blades.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...=images&num=2&

http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...mnumber=G8692&

This is the one I used for many years as a general cut off saw. Mostly for
metal but almost anything else you could think of too. Just because it was
there in the shop.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...emnumber=G1010

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:23:05 GMT, Dan Major
wrote:

If low noise is critical, I'd go with the manual miter box. I've got a
Craftsman that has done a wonderful job. It has a wooden base that I
modified slightly and will clamp tightly in a Workmate bench. It has a
"captive" blade so that once set, even a monkey could make precise cuts.
Something like:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?
BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00936343000& subcat=Miter+Boxes

(sorry about long url, it's a Craftsman Full Range Compounding Miter Box,
Sears item #00936343000 Mfr. model #36343 )

Yep, did a lot of work that way when I was starting out. A Japanese
pull saw (Dozuki) with a nice thin kerf makes it easy, if not quite as
fast as a power saw.

"Prometheus" wrote in message

Yep, did a lot of work that way when I was starting out. A Japanese
pull saw (Dozuki) with a nice thin kerf makes it easy, if not quite as
fast as a power saw.

A query about all these suggestions of hand saws. The OP was talking about
doing flooring with a quiet saw. Can hand saws, even Dozuki hand saws cut a
floor board so straight at 90° and so finely finished that it's going to
mate perfectly with an adjacent board? I've got to be honest here, I'm
really sceptical.

"Upscale" wrote in
:


A query about all these suggestions of hand saws. The OP was talking
about doing flooring with a quiet saw. Can hand saws, even Dozuki hand
saws cut a floor board so straight at 90° and so finely finished that
it's going to mate perfectly with an adjacent board? I've got to be
honest here, I'm really sceptical.

Dozuki's and other "free" hand saws take some getting used to for proper
technique. The Craftsman saw I mentioned has a "captive" blade; there are
four vertical posts, and a guide on the saw fits over the blades and onto
the posts. Mine came with lots of hold-down and stop-block clamps. When I
first got mine, I made a jig that would allow me to do resawing. *THAT*
will make you break out in a sweat!

Upscale wrote:
"ddt_toronto" wrote in message
saw in the bathroom, but noise is too strong even then. Any idea which
low noise saw can be used for laminate besides hand saw?

Only type of portable power saw that I can think of that would be suitable
is a chop saw and they're not known for their quietness. There's usually
other options of interest than noise.
Cutting laminates for floors needs usually needs an exact 90=B0. Only oth=
er
option I can think of is a handsaw for the initial cut and then some type=
of
professional cut off box that uses a shear to cut the last 1/4" of materi=
al
to size. There's a few high end sheer cutters of that type are used in
picture making, maybe there's some that cut at 90=B0.

Seems the best way to me, if pricey. Cut nearly to length with a hand
miter saw, then shave to exact length with the Pootatuck Lion Miter
Trimmer. It does do squaring. The clones out there may also do
squaring. I think Grizzly distributes one.

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
to size. There's a few high end sheer cutters of that type are used in
picture making, maybe there's some that cut at 90°.

Seems the best way to me, if pricey. Cut nearly to length with a hand
miter saw, then shave to exact length with the Pootatuck Lion Miter
Trimmer. It does do squaring. The clones out there may also do
squaring. I think Grizzly distributes one.

They would work with wood, but that laminate is pretty tough stuff. It will
kill a carbide blade in short order. Do you think a trimmer can handle it?

Thanks guys for all your replys. I'm thinking of testing this Bosch
power hand saw (I didn't even know that something like this exists):

http://www.boschtools.com/tools/tool...=54928&I=55133

"ddt_toronto" wrote in message
Thanks guys for all your replys. I'm thinking of testing this Bosch
power hand saw (I didn't even know that something like this exists):

http://www.boschtools.com/tools/tool...=54928&I=55133

Didn't you say you wanted to do flooring? It mentioned a maximum mitre of 3
5/8". That's about 4" at 90°. There's flooring that's wider than that. Not
saying it won't do what you'd need, but I'd examine one very closely.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
to size. There's a few high end sheer cutters of that type are used in
picture making, maybe there's some that cut at 90=B0.

Seems the best way to me, if pricey. Cut nearly to length with a hand
miter saw, then shave to exact length with the Pootatuck Lion Miter
Trimmer. It does do squaring. The clones out there may also do
squaring. I think Grizzly distributes one.

They would work with wood, but that laminate is pretty tough stuff. It w=
ill
kill a carbide blade in short order. Do you think a trimmer can handle i=
t?

I'd guess the trimmer will handle it, but sharpening the cutters might
become a career. Still, it will do the job, I'm reasonably sure.

Upscale wrote:
"Prometheus" wrote in message

Yep, did a lot of work that way when I was starting out. A Japanese
pull saw (Dozuki) with a nice thin kerf makes it easy, if not quite as
fast as a power saw.

A query about all these suggestions of hand saws. The OP was talking about
doing flooring with a quiet saw. Can hand saws, even Dozuki hand saws cut=
a
floor board so straight at 90=B0 and so finely finished that it's going to
mate perfectly with an adjacent board? I've got to be honest here, I'm
really sceptical.

I doubt it. I've got an old Stanley miter saw with, IIRC, a 6" tall x
30" long backsaw. That'll do it, if he can find one in decent shape for
less than a home mortgage payment. It won't do compounds, but it puts
all the fragile multi-use modern stuff to shame. And it will cut
flooring to about 9" wide, I believe. Sharpening is not as quick as
some handsaws (laminate, of course), but is easily done.

ddt_toronto wrote:
Thanks guys for all your replys. I'm thinking of testing this Bosch
power hand saw (I didn't even know that something like this exists):

http://www.boschtools.com/tools/tool...=54928&I=55133


How will you rip the pieces to width along the wall?

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

(Remove -SPAM- to send email)

Contractors have been getting ripped off for years now by a
conspiracy. The only thing that's generally available to us today are
devices that spin things like carbide-tipped saw blades with big motors.

But what do you think cuts the saw blade itself? That's right, a
laser! Have you seen the kerf on the anti-vibration cut-outs in the
Freud? Astoundingly clean, accurate, lightning fast, with a .5mm kerf.

So, take that new miter saw with the laser sight. All they need to do
is get rid of the motor and the blade and boost the laser power. How
hard can that be? I just did all the design work right there.

* Never needs sharpening!
* Totally quiet... no moving parts!
* No sawdust... just a little puff of smoke.

The laser could even match the color mark of the manufacturer
(e.g. yellow for dewalt, red for milwaukee, green for hitachi)

Well, you can see how this would kill lots of industries overnight, so
they'll never let us have them.

In rec.woodworking ddt_toronto wrote:
Hi All,
I'm a part time paint contractor and I'm thinking of including a
laminate flooring in my services (I paint mostly condos). I have layed
a couple of laminate floors myself but I used circular saw for cutting
the laminate. Now, that would work if I work during regular hours, but
condo corporations don't allow high noise after 5 p.m. and during the
weekends, which is the time when I paint mostly. So, one option will be
to do all the prep work in the evening (carpet removal, vaccuming,
subfloor laying) and to hire someone to work on the laminate during the
day. Or, to lay the laminate after hours using some low noise saw. I
found some good looking Mastercraft mitre hand saw and it looks like
that's the best option, but I still think that it must be some other
power saw on the market that is not noisy. I thought to put the power
saw in the bathroom, but noise is too strong even then. Any idea which
low noise saw can be used for laminate besides hand saw?

Thanks in advance.

wrote:
Contractors have been getting ripped off for years now by a
conspiracy. The only thing that's generally available to us today are
devices that spin things like carbide-tipped saw blades with big
motors.

But what do you think cuts the saw blade itself? That's right, a
laser! Have you seen the kerf on the anti-vibration cut-outs in the
Freud? Astoundingly clean, accurate, lightning fast, with a .5mm
kerf.

So, take that new miter saw with the laser sight. All they need to do
is get rid of the motor and the blade and boost the laser power. How
hard can that be? I just did all the design work right there.

* Never needs sharpening!
* Totally quiet... no moving parts!
* No sawdust... just a little puff of smoke.

The laser could even match the color mark of the manufacturer
(e.g. yellow for dewalt, red for milwaukee, green for hitachi)

Well, you can see how this would kill lots of industries overnight, so
they'll never let us have them.

I'll bite.

Cutting wood by essentially burning it away is a bit different to cutting
metal... I guess for studwork a bit of scorching wouldn't matter so much,
but for fine furniture? No thanks.

Also, the systems I've looked at in a quick google (up to 450W CO2 Lasers)
can only cut a max of 1" thickness. And a 450W laser is a hefty bit of kit
with a hefty price tag. Although I see EBay has a 3500W laser setup on
Buy-it-now for only $249,995.

Not to mention that saw cutting is only dangerous to people within reach of
the blade plus a bit for kickback. A high powered cutting laser would be a
danger to anyone in a pretty wide range, even if it was initially contained
inside the workshop. Want your dozy neghbour to have one?

Yes, no kickback either! I hadn't thought of that...but I'm sure that
will be on the first brochures when they start churning them out.

Scorching? By the time these things come out, all wood will be MDF
and need to be painted anyway :-)

Seriously, though, the *pulsed* lasers that do LASIK eye correction
DON'T SCORCH (they vaporize the wood before it burns)... they could
make a stopped, flat-bottomed hole in wood that looks like that you
made it with a forstner bit on your drill press but with 0.0001"
accuracy and no brad-point left in the bottom if you add a modicum of
CNC technology.

And, if you wanted to thru-drill, that's another good thing... ZERO
TEAR OUT!

One of the best uses is making those damned square mortise holes --
nobody's every pefected that satisfactorily. And even if you do have
the el-cheapo scorching version of the laser, we don't care a lot
inside a joint.

The price of anything initially (in "prototype" quantities) is quite
costly... but you can go to the dollar store and get a laser pointer
now for a buck... when they first came out they were a hundred bucks!
And don't forget, with a pulsed laser, the power is concentrated in a
short burst resulting in *much* lower wattage.

It might seem dangerous by today's standards, but again, look at the
LASIK lasers... they're a foot from your eyeball pointed directly at
your eyeball!

Brad nailers and Hilti guns have quite a "range" too, and probably
seemed scary when they were first invented.

In rec.woodworking PC Paul wrote:
Well, you can see how this would kill lots of industries overnight, so
they'll never let us have them.

I'll bite.

Cutting wood by essentially burning it away is a bit different to cutting
metal... I guess for studwork a bit of scorching wouldn't matter so much,
but for fine furniture? No thanks.

Also, the systems I've looked at in a quick google (up to 450W CO2 Lasers)
can only cut a max of 1" thickness. And a 450W laser is a hefty bit of kit
with a hefty price tag. Although I see EBay has a 3500W laser setup on
Buy-it-now for only $249,995.

Not to mention that saw cutting is only dangerous to people within reach of
the blade plus a bit for kickback. A high powered cutting laser would be a
danger to anyone in a pretty wide range, even if it was initially contained
inside the workshop. Want your dozy neghbour to have one?

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 21:23:03 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:

This is the one I used for many years as a general cut off saw. Mostly for
metal but almost anything else you could think of too. Just because it was
there in the shop.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...emnumber=G1010


This one's a beauty, too.

http://www.ellissaw.com/BandSaws/10/1100-mitre-band-saw

They're tough as nails, and the head (rather than the vise) pivots for
miter cuts. I have no idea what they want for them, but if I had to
say what I'd expect to pay for one, I'd put it in the $500-600 range.
Much nicer than any other cut-off bandsaw I've seen- by quite a large
margin. Their sanders are nice, too.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:03:24 -0400, "Upscale"
wrote:

"Prometheus" wrote in message

Yep, did a lot of work that way when I was starting out. A Japanese
pull saw (Dozuki) with a nice thin kerf makes it easy, if not quite as
fast as a power saw.

A query about all these suggestions of hand saws. The OP was talking about
doing flooring with a quiet saw. Can hand saws, even Dozuki hand saws cut a
floor board so straight at 90° and so finely finished that it's going to
mate perfectly with an adjacent board? I've got to be honest here, I'm
really sceptical.

Sure it can. A saw is only as good as the guy using it, true- but a
good handsaw can cut just as straight as any power tool, and better
than some. Couple of things make it easier to get a good cut, in
fact- first, it's a lot easier to follow a line, because the saw cuts
at your pace, not at the pace of the motor, and you can adjust your
stance *before* the entire piece is cut. Second, a dozuki has a ton
of tiny little teeth that leave an edge like a good diablo blade.

You've got to remember that people have been doing woodworking for
thousands of years, and they didn't all have DeWalt and Delta. Some
of that stuff they built was even sort of ok.

"Prometheus" wrote in message
fact- first, it's a lot easier to follow a line, because the saw cuts
at your pace, not at the pace of the motor, and you can adjust your
stance *before* the entire piece is cut. Second, a dozuki has a ton
of tiny little teeth that leave an edge like a good diablo blade.

You've got to remember that people have been doing woodworking for
thousands of years, and they didn't all have DeWalt and Delta. Some
of that stuff they built was even sort of ok.

I'll take your word for it, but I'll hat to see it to believe it. Yup,
they've been building wooden floors for hundreds of years, but repeatable
90° cuts with a handsaw, (I don't care what type) without further edge
treatment? Sorry, but it's just one of those things I'll have to see done to
accept. Shearing an edge afterwards, plaining it and a few other ways I can
think of, without them, I can't envision it. Maybe my woodworking experience
has been too sheltered.

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:44:33 -0400, the opaque "Upscale"
clearly wrote:

"Prometheus" wrote in message
fact- first, it's a lot easier to follow a line, because the saw cuts
at your pace, not at the pace of the motor, and you can adjust your
stance *before* the entire piece is cut. Second, a dozuki has a ton
of tiny little teeth that leave an edge like a good diablo blade.

You've got to remember that people have been doing woodworking for
thousands of years, and they didn't all have DeWalt and Delta. Some
of that stuff they built was even sort of ok.

I'll take your word for it, but I'll hat to see it to believe it. Yup,
they've been building wooden floors for hundreds of years, but repeatable
90° cuts with a handsaw, (I don't care what type) without further edge
treatment? Sorry, but it's just one of those things I'll have to see done to
accept. Shearing an edge afterwards, plaining it and a few other ways I can
think of, without them, I can't envision it. Maybe my woodworking experience
has been too sheltered.

I thought the same thing until I got and used a Japanese pull saw.
Floored me, it did!

--
-------------------------------------------------------
Never underestimate the innate animosity of inanimate objects.
----
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"Prometheus" wrote in message
fact- first, it's a lot easier to follow a line, because the saw cuts
at your pace, not at the pace of the motor, and you can adjust your
stance *before* the entire piece is cut. Second, a dozuki has a ton
of tiny little teeth that leave an edge like a good diablo blade.

You've got to remember that people have been doing woodworking for
thousands of years, and they didn't all have DeWalt and Delta. Some
of that stuff they built was even sort of ok.

I'll take your word for it, but I'll hat to see it to believe it. Yup,
they've been building wooden floors for hundreds of years, but repeatable
90° cuts with a handsaw, (I don't care what type) without further edge
treatment? Sorry, but it's just one of those things I'll have to see done
to
accept. Shearing an edge afterwards, plaining it and a few other ways I
can
think of, without them, I can't envision it. Maybe my woodworking
experience
has been too sheltered.

At the Northeastern Woodworker's Association's Showcase this year I did
demonstrations on using shooting boards. I kept cutting pieces off the end
of the same board and then trued them up with the plane. What was kind of
amusing was that after a while I had to intentionally make bad saw cuts. I
started getting perfect miter cuts with the hand saw while supporting the
work with the shooting board. Mind you I was using an L-N crosscut backsaw
but still, it was a handsaw. I've been using my crosscut panel saw quite a
bit lately and making square and plumb cuts isn't that difficult. It's a
matter of paying attention and developing skill...

John

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message
amusing was that after a while I had to intentionally make bad saw cuts. I
started getting perfect miter cuts with the hand saw while supporting the
work with the shooting board. Mind you I was using an L-N crosscut backsaw
but still, it was a handsaw.

I guess I've got something to learn then. Much of my woodworking is done in
an apartment where noise is of a concern and my biggest difficulty by far is
getting straight, parallel cuts to my satisfaction.

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:14:33 -0400, "Upscale"
wrote:

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message
amusing was that after a while I had to intentionally make bad saw cuts. I
started getting perfect miter cuts with the hand saw while supporting the
work with the shooting board. Mind you I was using an L-N crosscut backsaw
but still, it was a handsaw.

I guess I've got something to learn then. Much of my woodworking is done in
an apartment where noise is of a concern and my biggest difficulty by far is
getting straight, parallel cuts to my satisfaction.

Yeah, give a nice handsaw a try- you can't really get a good one at
the local borg these days, but you can order them from any of the
mail-order companies that cater to woodworkers. Using hand tools only
seems hard until you get a good one, and then it's a real eye-opener.

"Prometheus" wrote in message

Yeah, give a nice handsaw a try- you can't really get a good one at
the local borg these days, but you can order them from any of the
mail-order companies that cater to woodworkers. Using hand tools only
seems hard until you get a good one, and then it's a real eye-opener.

Got a brand recommendation? Whatever I consider buying will have to be
available somewhere in the Canadian market.

Upscale wrote:
Got a brand recommendation? Whatever I consider buying will have to be
available somewhere in the Canadian market.

Maybe I'm missing something, look in your LV catalog. Last I heard,
Robin was in the GWN.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use: daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.org

"Dave in Fairfax" wrote in message
Upscale wrote:
Got a brand recommendation? Whatever I consider buying will have to be
available somewhere in the Canadian market.

Maybe I'm missing something, look in your LV catalog.

We're talking about hand saws right? I've got a 10 tpi Pax panel saw
purchased from LV. Cutting an 8" board shows visible imperfections. Mating
two boards end to end no matter how carefully I cut does *not* produce
something that would be considered usable for flooring. I'm not clumsy using
a hand saw nor am I inexperienced. So, either there's something I don't know
about cutting boards, I'm not handling the saw properly or I'm missing
something here.

The only saw apparatus that I've seen on the LV site that might produce cuts
suitable for flooring is the mitre trimmer. It doesn't exactly say, but
viewing it online suggests to me that it's capable of 90° cuts.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...22&cat=1,42884

Upscale wrote:
We're talking about hand saws right? I've got a 10 tpi Pax panel saw
purchased from LV. Cutting an 8" board shows visible imperfections. Mating
two boards end to end no matter how carefully I cut does *not* produce
something that would be considered usable for flooring. I'm not clumsy using
a hand saw nor am I inexperienced. So, either there's something I don't know
about cutting boards, I'm not handling the saw properly or I'm missing
something here.
The only saw apparatus that I've seen on the LV site that might produce cuts
suitable for flooring is the mitre trimmer. It doesn't exactly say, but
viewing it online suggests to me that it's capable of 90° cuts.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...22&cat=1,42884

Easy there big guy. I wasn't saying that you were clumsy or
inexperienced. I also wasn't saying that you'd get a sawcut that was
smooth as a baby's butt. You asked about the availablity of high
quality saws in Canada and I was suggesting LV. I don't think that saws
give perfect finishes, even the Japanese ones. If you take a look at
that shelf-O-planes I posted a while back you'll see a bunch of saws.
You'll also see a bunch of planes. I believe in planes. They give you
a smooth finish, so do the scapers you prolly can't see in the picture.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use: daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.org

Prometheus wrote:
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:03:24 -0400, "Upscale"
wrote:

"Prometheus" wrote in message

Yep, did a lot of work that way when I was starting out. A Japanese
pull saw (Dozuki) with a nice thin kerf makes it easy, if not quite as
fast as a power saw.

A query about all these suggestions of hand saws. The OP was talking abo=
ut
doing flooring with a quiet saw. Can hand saws, even Dozuki hand saws cu=
t a
floor board so straight at 90=B0 and so finely finished that it's going =
to
mate perfectly with an adjacent board? I've got to be honest here, I'm
really sceptical.

Sure it can. A saw is only as good as the guy using it, true- but a
good handsaw can cut just as straight as any power tool, and better
than some. Couple of things make it easier to get a good cut, in
fact- first, it's a lot easier to follow a line, because the saw cuts
at your pace, not at the pace of the motor, and you can adjust your
stance *before* the entire piece is cut. Second, a dozuki has a ton
of tiny little teeth that leave an edge like a good diablo blade.


Third, DAGS on "shooting board". This is a jig (or is it a fixture?)
that holds the board while guiding a plane is to shave off the
end grain cleaning up the saw cut. Typically a single pass is
all that is needed.

Hmm, since the shooting board holds the workpiece AND guides the
tool at the same time I guess a shooting board is both a jig
and a fixture.

--=20

FF

"Dave in Fairfax" wrote in message
inexperienced. I also wasn't saying that you'd get a sawcut that was
smooth as a baby's butt. You asked about the availablity of high
quality saws in Canada and I was suggesting LV.

It's ok, I'm not upset. I'm just keeping in mind the OP's request for a
quiet way to produce cuts (night time operation) that are suitable for
laying laminate flooring. Aside from the shearing method, or the edge
planing method (which I feel is much too slow for production speed
professional work) I can't envision anything else that would meet his noise
concerns. Even if a Dozuki saw and some specialized usage can produce the
type of 90° cuts obtained by a properly set up chop saw, I refuse to believe
that it can be done nearly fast enough to be worthwhile using for production
work.

If there's something else out there that I don't know about, then hey, I'm
all for it. I like woodworking in the middle of the night as long as I'm
comfortable knowing that an angry neighbour isn't going to be pounding on my
door demanding why I'm making all that noise.

Upscale wrote:
"Dave in Fairfax" wrote in message
inexperienced. I also wasn't saying that you'd get a sawcut that was
smooth as a baby's butt. You asked about the availablity of high
quality saws in Canada and I was suggesting LV.


I don't know if the pax saws are high quality or not. The Independence
saws, now made by Lie Nielsen and the Adria saws both have a
great reputation. Possibly these are as good as the best antiques
you could find.


It's ok, I'm not upset. I'm just keeping in mind the OP's request for a
quiet way to produce cuts (night time operation) that are suitable for
laying laminate flooring. Aside from the shearing method, or the edge
planing method (which I feel is much too slow for production speed
professional work) ...

I don't see why shearing or edge planing would be too slow. It
is one additonal step after cutting, but a quick one. Of course
there is time needed to hone the blade once every night or so
that's a quick job with the plane, don't know about the shear.

--

FF

Upscale wrote:
...

The only saw apparatus that I've seen on the LV site that might produce c=
uts
suitable for flooring is the mitre trimmer. It doesn't exactly say, but
viewing it online suggests to me that it's capable of 90=B0 cuts.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...&cat=3D1,42884

It looks like the fence on the LHS is set up for 90 degree trimming.

--=20

FF