I think the email thread below says all that needs to be said. Note
the time stamps.

Tom,


Thank you for the email and for the nice compliments regarding our tools.
Sorry to hear about the handle on your brand new plane, it certainly doesn't
sound like something that should have passed inspection.


If you could please email your address to me, I'll simply send you a new
handle, no charge of course. I can get that out right away.


Again, I apologize for the troubles.


Jennifer


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Banes
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 5:00 PM
To:
Subject: LN 4 1/2 Plane Question



I've been the happy owner of a couple of LN planes (a scrub plane and a
rabbet plane) for some time, so when WoodCrafter put your 4 1/2 smoother on
sale I went to SWMBO and explained how critical it was that I have one. She
acquiesced, under protest, and that'll cost me a few pairs of lady's shoes.


It arrived late last week, but I was out of town on business and didn't get
it unpacked until yesterday - it was BEAUTIFUL. I popped the iron off,
spent about 1/2 hour honing it to a really nasty edge (that's one step up
from scary sharp), adjusted everything and put it on the plane shelf, ready
for this weekend.


When I put it on the shelf, I kinda went "Huh". On the back of the tote,
just about where the web of your hand would fit, was an angled mark. Taking
it down and looking carefully it became apparent that the tote wood had an
imperfection that had been filled with some kind of filler before
finishing. I have posted pictures at

REMOVED


Two points -


1. The imperfection is glaringly obvious once you look at the right angle.
2. I have no way of telling how deep the imperfection goes and whether this
critical area of the tote will, at some point in the future, split or give
way entirely.


As I said above, I've been a happy and satisfied LN customer and user, but
right now am not real happy with this latest purchase.


How do you suggest I proceed?


Regards.

Tom Banes wrote:
I think the email thread below says all that needs to be said. Note
the time stamps.


Tom,


Thank you for the email and for the nice compliments regarding our tools.
Sorry to hear about the handle on your brand new plane, it certainly doesn't
sound like something that should have passed inspection.


If you could please email your address to me, I'll simply send you a new
handle, no charge of course. I can get that out right away.


Again, I apologize for the troubles.


Jennifer


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Banes
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 5:00 PM
To:
Subject: LN 4 1/2 Plane Question



I've been the happy owner of a couple of LN planes (a scrub plane and a
rabbet plane) for some time, so when WoodCrafter put your 4 1/2 smoother on
sale I went to SWMBO and explained how critical it was that I have one. She
acquiesced, under protest, and that'll cost me a few pairs of lady's shoes.


It arrived late last week, but I was out of town on business and didn't get
it unpacked until yesterday - it was BEAUTIFUL. I popped the iron off,
spent about 1/2 hour honing it to a really nasty edge (that's one step up

from scary sharp), adjusted everything and put it on the plane shelf, ready

for this weekend.


When I put it on the shelf, I kinda went "Huh". On the back of the tote,
just about where the web of your hand would fit, was an angled mark. Taking
it down and looking carefully it became apparent that the tote wood had an
imperfection that had been filled with some kind of filler before
finishing. I have posted pictures at


REMOVED


Two points -


1. The imperfection is glaringly obvious once you look at the right angle.
2. I have no way of telling how deep the imperfection goes and whether this
critical area of the tote will, at some point in the future, split or give
way entirely.


As I said above, I've been a happy and satisfied LN customer and user, but
right now am not real happy with this latest purchase.


How do you suggest I proceed?


Regards.
Do you think that you wouldn't have gotten a satisfactory response from
LN if you had just called customer service and said, "my new plane has a
split handle"?

Dave

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:07:17 -0700, David wrote:


Do you think that you wouldn't have gotten a satisfactory response from
LN if you had just called customer service and said, "my new plane has a
split handle"?

Dave

In my business life I've never seen any reason not to use a reasonable
tone, letting folks know you've appeciated them in the past and would
like to do so in the future does no harm, if true, and sets the tone
for the conversation. As for calling, I prefer email - I don't think
as fast as I talk sometimes.

Regards.

Tom Banes wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:07:17 -0700, David wrote:



Do you think that you wouldn't have gotten a satisfactory response from
LN if you had just called customer service and said, "my new plane has a
split handle"?

Dave


In my business life I've never seen any reason not to use a reasonable
tone, letting folks know you've appeciated them in the past and would
like to do so in the future does no harm, if true, and sets the tone
for the conversation. As for calling, I prefer email - I don't think
as fast as I talk sometimes.

Regards.

I didn't suggest that you NOT use a reasonable tone. My point was that
you created an entire story when a simple sentence should have sufficed.
If I was on the receiving end I would have gotten impatient to see
what your complaint was. I wouldn't have needed all the extra detail to
make a simple decision to send you a replacement.

Dave

Dave

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:47:41 -0700, David wrote:
My point was that
you created an entire story when a simple sentence should have sufficed.

Story telling is a dying art. I choose to perputuate it.

Different strokes.

Tom Banes wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:47:41 -0700, David wrote:
My point was that

you created an entire story when a simple sentence should have sufficed.


Story telling is a dying art. I choose to perputuate it.

Different strokes.
succint reply. I like it.

Dave

"David" wrote in message

Tom Banes wrote:
Story telling is a dying art. I choose to perputuate it.

It appears that making an effort to spell properly is also a dying art. Too
bad the new art of using a spell checker hasn't caught on either.

succint reply. I like it.

Glad you agree.

Upscale wrote:

"David" wrote in message

Tom Banes wrote:
Story telling is a dying art. I choose to perputuate it.

It appears that making an effort to spell properly is also a dying art. Too
bad the new art of using a spell checker hasn't caught on either.

....

I have a spelling checker.
It came with my PC.
It plane lee marks four my revue
Miss steaks aye can knot see.

Eye ran this poem threw it.
Your sure real glad two no.
Its very polished in its weigh,
My checker tolled me sew.

A checker is a blessing.
It freeze yew lodes of thyme.
It helps me right awl stiles two reed,
And aides me when aye rime.

Each frays come posed up on my screen
Eye trussed too bee a joule.
The checker pours o'er every word
To cheque sum spelling rule.

Bee fore a veiling checkers
Hour spelling mite decline,
And if we're laks oar have a laps,
We wood bee maid too wine.

Butt now bee cause my spelling
Is checked with such grate flare,
There are know faults with in my cite,
Of nun eye am a wear.

Now spelling does not phase me,
It does knot bring a tier.
My pay purrs awl due glad den
With wrapped words fare as hear.

To rite with care is quite a feet
Of witch won should be proud,
And wee mussed dew the best wee can,
Sew flaws are knot aloud.

Sow ewe can sea why aye dew prays
Such soft wear four pea seas,
And why eye brake in two averse
Buy righting want too please.

[source unknown]

Duane Bozarth wrote:

Upscale wrote:

"David" wrote in message


Tom Banes wrote:

Story telling is a dying art. I choose to perputuate it.

It appears that making an effort to spell properly is also a dying art. Too
bad the new art of using a spell checker hasn't caught on either.


...

I have a spelling checker.
It came with my PC.
It plane lee marks four my revue
Miss steaks aye can knot see.

Eye ran this poem threw it.
Your sure real glad two no.
Its very polished in its weigh,
My checker tolled me sew.

A checker is a blessing.
It freeze yew lodes of thyme.
It helps me right awl stiles two reed,
And aides me when aye rime.

Each frays come posed up on my screen
Eye trussed too bee a joule.
The checker pours o'er every word
To cheque sum spelling rule.

Bee fore a veiling checkers
Hour spelling mite decline,
And if we're laks oar have a laps,
We wood bee maid too wine.

Butt now bee cause my spelling
Is checked with such grate flare,
There are know faults with in my cite,
Of nun eye am a wear.

Now spelling does not phase me,
It does knot bring a tier.
My pay purrs awl due glad den
With wrapped words fare as hear.

To rite with care is quite a feet
Of witch won should be proud,
And wee mussed dew the best wee can,
Sew flaws are knot aloud.

Sow ewe can sea why aye dew prays
Such soft wear four pea seas,
And why eye brake in two averse
Buy righting want too please.

[source unknown]

Thanks for that laugh, Duane. I was about to praise your literary
talent until I saw the disclaimer.

Dave

Might be better for LN QA to know what the real/detailed facts are?

wrote:

Might be better for LN QA to know what the real/detailed facts are?

They'll see for themselves if they ask for the damaged part back. If
you were a mfgr. wouldn't you rather see the defective component than
just take a report from the customer? QA is gonna want "hands on" to
determine if any changes need to be made in the mfgr'ing process. The
mfgr that doesn't want the part back probably doesn't care a whole lot
about QA.

Dave

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:51:30 -0500, Tom Banes
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:07:17 -0700, David wrote:


Do you think that you wouldn't have gotten a satisfactory response from
LN if you had just called customer service and said, "my new plane has a
split handle"?

Dave

In my business life I've never seen any reason not to use a reasonable
tone, letting folks know you've appeciated them in the past and would
like to do so in the future does no harm, if true, and sets the tone
for the conversation. As for calling, I prefer email - I don't think
as fast as I talk sometimes.

Regards.

Tom.. I also prefer email, for a couple of other reasons:

The recipient can read at their leisure and not have to take notes on the
phone...

they can forward it to the appropriate department, saving you the hassle of
repeating your problem to another person...

you have a record of what you said and of any replies that they sent back..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 10:12:39 -0700, mac davis
wrote:


Tom.. I also prefer email, for a couple of other reasons:

The recipient can read at their leisure and not have to take notes on the
phone...

they can forward it to the appropriate department, saving you the hassle of
repeating your problem to another person...

you have a record of what you said and of any replies that they sent back..


Concur.

In re your last sentence:

The message stream is a great help when litigating. Email NEVER dies
or mis-remembers.

Tom

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 03:08:08 -0400, "Upscale"
wrote:


It appears that making an effort to spell properly is also a dying art. Too
bad the new art of using a spell checker hasn't caught on either.

That was a Budweiser induced OOOPS. I should have spell checked it (or
used a smaller word).

Humble, contrite, indeed abject, apologies for having, in some way,
discommoded you and others.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 09:56:59 -0700, David wrote:

wrote:

Might be better for LN QA to know what the real/detailed facts are?

They'll see for themselves if they ask for the damaged part back. If
you were a mfgr. wouldn't you rather see the defective component than
just take a report from the customer? QA is gonna want "hands on" to
determine if any changes need to be made in the mfgr'ing process. The
mfgr that doesn't want the part back probably doesn't care a whole lot
about QA.

Dave

Or, perhaps, is aware that a 'bad batch' slipped by the QA process.
I experienced this similar situation a few weeks ago with a Senco
FP41XP nailer. Purchased months ago but didn't open or use until
recently. Out of the box (and still under warranty) there were air
leaks. I phoned Senco Customer (Dis) Service and was told the O rings
that were leaking were not covered under the warranty. I brought the
unit in to my local dealer and explained the problem, fully expecting
to pony up nearly $100. to repair the unused gun. Without hesitation,
the nailer was exchanged. The dealer was aware of the fact that there
was a bad batch that recently made its way into the retail channel. A
good example of why I will always make the attempt to purchase locally
before giving my business to a faceless online retailer. Also a good
example of why I'll think twice and twice again before purchasing
anything sold under the Senco brand.

gregg

Yes I would generally agree with those comments however, the OP sent a
reasonable and detailed description of the problem. This gets honesty
points if I work there.
From that description they may already know the issue, shipping
doesn't sound like the problem. My point was he provided some detail
that they my have made some determination and save the customer the
hassle of returning.
My opinion on your original question is yes he would have gotten just
as good of customer service response

David wrote:

Duane Bozarth wrote:

Upscale wrote:

"David" wrote in message


Tom Banes wrote:

Story telling is a dying art. I choose to perputuate it.

It appears that making an effort to spell properly is also a dying art. Too
bad the new art of using a spell checker hasn't caught on either.


...

I have a spelling checker.
It came with my PC.
It plane lee marks four my revue
Miss steaks aye can knot see.
.....
Sow ewe can sea why aye dew prays
Such soft wear four pea seas,
And why eye brake in two averse
Buy righting want too please.

[source unknown]

Thanks for that laugh, Duane. I was about to praise your literary
talent until I saw the disclaimer.

I worked on it some from the time I first saw it, but had nothing to do
w/ the original creation...it was posted by a support person w/ a small
software outfit I use.

I do like the somewhat gentle reminder that spell checkers aren't always
the panacea they're often made out to be...

Duane Bozarth wrote:

David wrote:

Duane Bozarth wrote:


Upscale wrote:


"David" wrote in message



Tom Banes wrote:


Story telling is a dying art. I choose to perputuate it.

It appears that making an effort to spell properly is also a dying art. Too
bad the new art of using a spell checker hasn't caught on either.


...

I have a spelling checker.
It came with my PC.
It plane lee marks four my revue
Miss steaks aye can knot see.

....

Sow ewe can sea why aye dew prays
Such soft wear four pea seas,
And why eye brake in two averse
Buy righting want too please.

[source unknown]

Thanks for that laugh, Duane. I was about to praise your literary
talent until I saw the disclaimer.


I worked on it some from the time I first saw it, but had nothing to do
w/ the original creation...it was posted by a support person w/ a small
software outfit I use.

I do like the somewhat gentle reminder that spell checkers aren't always
the panacea they're often made out to be...

I thnik porper seplilng is vrey ipmotrnat. I uasluly use a sepll cehkcer
to aovid ebmsasarnirg msylef.

Dvae

David wrote:

....

I thnik porper seplilng is vrey ipmotrnat. I uasluly use a sepll cehkcer
to aovid ebmsasarnirg msylef.

Dvae

"David" wrote in message
...
wrote:

The
mfgr that doesn't want the part back probably doesn't care a whole lot
about QA.

Dave

Not true.
He may already have 47 of them returned and getting one more is not going to
help.
He may already know there was a problem in production, it was corrected, but
a few slipped through.

In 99% of the cases, I know what a problem was caused by and from the
description. It usually has long been corrected because we've made 20,000
more since then with no complaints. If it was a machine malfunction and
corrected, the part is of no value. If it was carelessness on the part of
the packer, I may want it to show him or others what NOT to do. That is a
tiny minority of what I see but can vary in different industries.

You listen to the customer, you assure him he will be credited or the part
replaced, you thank him for bringing the problem to your attention.

The part that bothers me about this whole story has nothing to do with
email vs snail mail vs phone call or the details of discovering a
flaw, or the rapidness of responding to a customer complaint.

Why in the world would "filler" even be present at the L-N factory? At
the prices they charge for their tools, the customer has a right to
expect a product that has not been patched up. If the tote was
imperfect it should have only left the factory in the trash bin.

kind of suggests that LN doesn't make their own wood parts anymore.