While going through the Festool products catalogue (tool
porn of the quality Lee Valley puts out for Pseudo
Neanders), I noticed their products are warranted
for 3 years. That got me thinking about how things
have changed over the years. I still have and still
use the Craftsman hand drill and the Skil worm drive
circular saw I bought in 1971 and haven't managed
to lose - yet.

I looked around the shop at my tailed hand tools and
have to wonder if any of the newer ones will still
be in usable in 10 years, let alone 30. While the
versatility of the new tailed hand tools have gotten
better over the years, and the prices, adjusted for
inflation, have gone down, I wonder if they, like
so many other things, they've become disposable/
consumables. If so, what is the grand kid, or great
grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
find useful and valuable?

charlie b

ps - to paraphrase Jimmy Carter, I have lust
in my heart for Festool's saber saw
AND plunge router and one of their cute
little vacuum cleaner things

charlie b wrote:
While going through the Festool products catalogue (tool
porn of the quality Lee Valley puts out for Pseudo
Neanders), I noticed their products are warranted
for 3 years. That got me thinking about how things
have changed over the years. I still have and still
use the Craftsman hand drill and the Skil worm drive
circular saw I bought in 1971 and haven't managed
to lose - yet.

I looked around the shop at my tailed hand tools and
have to wonder if any of the newer ones will still
be in usable in 10 years, let alone 30. While the
versatility of the new tailed hand tools have gotten
better over the years, and the prices, adjusted for
inflation, have gone down, I wonder if they, like
so many other things, they've become disposable/
consumables. If so, what is the grand kid, or great
grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
find useful and valuable?


Maybe nothing. I read earlier today that the new plasma TVs, LCD
monitors and similar devices can be expected to last no more than seven
years, compared to a strongly probable 20 years for CRT TVs and
monitors. I've got one CRT monitor upstairs that is past the decade
mark--I bought the thing as a refurb about 6-7 years ago, when it was
4-5 years old. It shows no signs of problems yet.

As life expectancy rises, product life falls. Just think of the extra
profits!

Charlie Self wrote:

I've got one CRT monitor upstairs that is past the decade
mark--I bought the thing as a refurb about 6-7 years ago, when it was
4-5 years old. It shows no signs of problems yet.

My "new" TV is 22 years old. G

Barry

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com...

charlie b wrote:
While going through the Festool products catalogue (tool
porn of the quality Lee Valley puts out for Pseudo
Neanders), I noticed their products are warranted
for 3 years. That got me thinking about how things
have changed over the years. I still have and still
use the Craftsman hand drill and the Skil worm drive
circular saw I bought in 1971 and haven't managed
to lose - yet.

I looked around the shop at my tailed hand tools and
have to wonder if any of the newer ones will still
be in usable in 10 years, let alone 30. While the
versatility of the new tailed hand tools have gotten
better over the years, and the prices, adjusted for
inflation, have gone down, I wonder if they, like
so many other things, they've become disposable/
consumables. If so, what is the grand kid, or great
grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
find useful and valuable?


My set of Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, Adrias, Blue Spurce Toolworks, Knight
Toolworks, etc. hand tools. And I'd hope my Unisaw, and other stationary
tools will still be around. As for routers/drills/etc., those probably ARE
consumables at this point, if not quite in the commodity range (although
closing in).

Mike

B a r r y wrote:
Charlie Self wrote:

I've got one CRT monitor upstairs that is past the decade
mark--I bought the thing as a refurb about 6-7 years ago, when it
was
4-5 years old. It shows no signs of problems yet.

My "new" TV is 22 years old. G

Yeah. Our el cheapo that went out a few years ago had replaced one my
wife had for upwards of 15 years. The el cheapo lasted about 12. This
one was even cheaper and uglier, so will probably last 20+.

When I bought a plasma a few years ago the half life was rated at
25,0000 hours of on time. I think todays models are even longer. 7 year
life would be something like 8 hours a day each and every day. I can't
even imagine wasting that much time watching the boob tube.
Joey

I'm not following your logic. The length of a warranty is not
proportional to the longevity of an item. It's more of a business
decision than an indicator of how long some item will last. The
exception to that would be items such as batteries, tires, mattresses,
etc that have a projected life span and come with a pro-rated warranty
to provide relief to the consumer should the item fail before the
warranty period has elapsed. Those types of items are more like
consumables. Batteries ALWAYS fail at some point. Tires wear out.
Mattresses sag. I've got a radio that still works fine. Guess where I
bought it. In the BX at Bien Hoa, Vietnam in 1969. The warranty was 90
days.

Dave

charlie b wrote:

While going through the Festool products catalogue (tool
porn of the quality Lee Valley puts out for Pseudo
Neanders), I noticed their products are warranted
for 3 years. That got me thinking about how things
have changed over the years. I still have and still
use the Craftsman hand drill and the Skil worm drive
circular saw I bought in 1971 and haven't managed
to lose - yet.

I looked around the shop at my tailed hand tools and
have to wonder if any of the newer ones will still
be in usable in 10 years, let alone 30. While the
versatility of the new tailed hand tools have gotten
better over the years, and the prices, adjusted for
inflation, have gone down, I wonder if they, like
so many other things, they've become disposable/
consumables. If so, what is the grand kid, or great
grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
find useful and valuable?

charlie b

ps - to paraphrase Jimmy Carter, I have lust
in my heart for Festool's saber saw
AND plunge router and one of their cute
little vacuum cleaner things

charlie b wrote:

While going through the Festool products catalogue (tool
porn of the quality Lee Valley puts out for Pseudo
Neanders), I noticed their products are warranted
for 3 years. That got me thinking about how things
have changed over the years. I still have and still
use the Craftsman hand drill and the Skil worm drive
circular saw I bought in 1971 and haven't managed
to lose - yet.

I looked around the shop at my tailed hand tools and
have to wonder if any of the newer ones will still
be in usable in 10 years, let alone 30. While the
versatility of the new tailed hand tools have gotten
better over the years, and the prices, adjusted for
inflation, have gone down, I wonder if they, like
so many other things, they've become disposable/
consumables. If so, what is the grand kid, or great
grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
find useful and valuable?

charlie b

ps - to paraphrase Jimmy Carter, I have lust
in my heart for Festool's saber saw
AND plunge router and one of their cute
little vacuum cleaner things

And keep in mind that guarantees, warrantees, swap-it-for-a-new-one if
it breaks, etc. are actuarial decisions. In other words, how cheaply
can we make this blurfl and still make money with this or that type of
guarantee AND maintain our reputation at the same time.

Sears wrenches are a decent product that will make money even though a
few will be returned now and again. Their customer base is the
non-professional homeowner who uses them now and again. Snap-On is a
better tool for the professional mechanic who uses and abuses it daily.
Skil vs. Bosch. Or PC vs B&D. Where will Delta end up? Sigh.
spasm,
jo4hn

In article ,
B a r r y wrote:

Charlie Self wrote:

I've got one CRT monitor upstairs that is past the decade
mark--I bought the thing as a refurb about 6-7 years ago, when it was
4-5 years old. It shows no signs of problems yet.

My "new" TV is 22 years old. G

Barry

There is hope then. I bought my TV the month before my middle daughter
was born. She'll be 17 next month.

It works like a charm, never failed, and still looking good.
Then again...it's seldom on for more than a cpl of hours per day.

Mike in Mystic wrote:
My set of Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, Adrias, Blue Spurce Toolworks, Knight
Toolworks, etc. hand tools. And I'd hope my Unisaw, and other stationary
tools will still be around. As for routers/drills/etc., those probably ARE
consumables at this point, if not quite in the commodity range (although
closing in).

I just had this discussion with a nice lady at Home Desperate.
she was trying to figure out what to get for her husband who just
retired. Ex shop teacher who now needed to use his OWN tools. We
talked brands, tailed v non-tailed and beef powered. I expect my
neander tools to be around another hundred+ years, I doubt my
normite ones will outlast me. Hell, I'll bet against it, just try
to make me pay up. %-) My daughter says my quiet tools are her
inheritance, she's prbably right.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

charlie b wrote in news:4288E2A9.53C7
@accesscom.com:

snip of some good stuff, as usual

If so, what is the grand kid, or great
grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
find useful and valuable?

charlie b

The stuff you make with those tools, the care that went into that, and the
time you take with the grandkid is what is going to be useful and valuable.

But you knew that already.


ps - to paraphrase Jimmy Carter, I have lust
in my heart for Festool's saber saw
AND plunge router and one of their cute
little vacuum cleaner things

So crack open the wallet, and buy some of that stuff. There's gonna be a
hell of a yard sale sometime in the future for each of us, or our estates,
anyhow.

Patriarch

Joe wrote:
When I bought a plasma a few years ago the half life was rated at
25,0000 hours of on time. I think todays models are even longer. 7
year
life would be something like 8 hours a day each and every day. I
can't
even imagine wasting that much time watching the boob tube.
Joey

You and I can't, but the big TV (I dunno, 61", 72"?) in my SIL's house
stays on from get up to get down or longer. I do not recall ever
walking in the house when the idjit box wasn't on. Whether or not
anyone's watching, though someone usually is. IMO, that's pitiful, but
I've found it's also not unusual. Those of us who watch an hour or two
a day, some days are not your average TV watcher (my TV set still
works--I watched the last quarter-final of Jeopardy last night, after
not turning it on for three or four days...I haven't watched a prime
time show in a decade or so: even the ads are repellent).

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

works--I watched the last quarter-final of Jeopardy last night, after
not turning it on for three or four days...I haven't watched a prime
time show in a decade or so: even the ads are repellent).

No woodworking shows Charlie? How about the news? Or, do both of those not
qualify as 'prime time'?

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

even the ads are repellent).

Yep ... from which springs a definite impression that the culture is
populated with barely functional, fist pumping, male idiots who can't get it
up.

While "they" may well be on to something, it could also be that all those
female advertising execs who broke into the business twenty years ago are
now frustrated and withered old bags?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

Upscale wrote:
"Charlie Self" wrote in message

works--I watched the last quarter-final of Jeopardy last night,
after
not turning it on for three or four days...I haven't watched a
prime
time show in a decade or so: even the ads are repellent).

No woodworking shows Charlie? How about the news? Or, do both of
those not
qualify as 'prime time'?

No cable or satellite, so no woodworking shows. If there's something I
really want to see, a friend tapes it for me. He's used one tape in the
past 11 months.

I do watch the news, but it mostly makes me whimper. Too selective in
reporting in the big three, while Fox is so biased as to be asinine.

In article .com,
Charlie Self wrote:

...I haven't watched a prime
time show in a decade or so: even the ads are repellent).


"Television is a medium.

Proof:
It is not rare.
It is not well done."



grin

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

No cable or satellite, so no woodworking shows. If there's something I
really want to see, a friend tapes it for me. He's used one tape in the
past 11 months.

In all honesty, that makes me jealous in a way. If I was in the same
situation, I'd eventually get over the lack of Television, find something
else to do and be all the happier for it.

Upscale wrote:
"Charlie Self" wrote in message

No cable or satellite, so no woodworking shows. If there's something I
really want to see, a friend tapes it for me. He's used one tape in the
past 11 months.


In all honesty, that makes me jealous in a way. If I was in the same
situation, I'd eventually get over the lack of Television, find something
else to do and be all the happier for it.


Same here. I don't watch much, but get sucked in more than I'd like.
If I wasn't married, I'd ditch the service. I'd rather get news from
newspapers, and all of the major network news channels put everything on
the web. I like movies, but there's always Netflix.

Barry

On Mon, 16 May 2005 11:12:57 -0700, charlie b wrote:

While going through the Festool products catalogue (tool
porn of the quality Lee Valley puts out for Pseudo
Neanders), I noticed their products are warranted
for 3 years. That got me thinking about how things
have changed over the years. I still have and still
use the Craftsman hand drill and the Skil worm drive
circular saw I bought in 1971 and haven't managed
to lose - yet.

I looked around the shop at my tailed hand tools and
have to wonder if any of the newer ones will still
be in usable in 10 years, let alone 30. While the
versatility of the new tailed hand tools have gotten
better over the years, and the prices, adjusted for
inflation, have gone down, I wonder if they, like
so many other things, they've become disposable/
consumables. If so, what is the grand kid, or great
grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
find useful and valuable?

charlie b
welcome to the new generation of tools:
End-to-end warranty coverage for the life of the tool...



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Mon, 16 May 2005 14:05:03 -0700, David wrote:

I'm not following your logic. The length of a warranty is not
proportional to the longevity of an item. It's more of a business
decision than an indicator of how long some item will last. The
exception to that would be items such as batteries, tires, mattresses,
etc that have a projected life span and come with a pro-rated warranty
to provide relief to the consumer should the item fail before the
warranty period has elapsed. Those types of items are more like
consumables. Batteries ALWAYS fail at some point. Tires wear out.
Mattresses sag. I've got a radio that still works fine. Guess where I
bought it. In the BX at Bien Hoa, Vietnam in 1969. The warranty was 90
days.

Dave

I think that a lot of companies sell junk by adding a long or lifetime warranty
to it..
In reality, most folks DON'T follow up on warranties or even bother registering
the product.. and it's not a secret in the industry..

I buy a lot of stuff from Harbor Freight... ever read their "life time"
warranty?
Pretty much says that if you think it's their fault, mail it to them for
evaluation.. if they think it's you're fault, you're screwed... if they think
it's their fault, they fix or replace, their choice...
How many people are going to go through that much hassle for a $20 angle grinder
that dies?
It's like taking a hamster to the vet.. they'll tell you to get a new hamster..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Mon, 16 May 2005 21:25:26 -0500, Patriarch
wrote:

charlie b wrote in news:4288E2A9.53C7
:

snip of some good stuff, as usual

If so, what is the grand kid, or great
grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
find useful and valuable?

charlie b

The stuff you make with those tools, the care that went into that, and the
time you take with the grandkid is what is going to be useful and valuable.

But you knew that already.


ps - to paraphrase Jimmy Carter, I have lust
in my heart for Festool's saber saw
AND plunge router and one of their cute
little vacuum cleaner things

So crack open the wallet, and buy some of that stuff. There's gonna be a
hell of a yard sale sometime in the future for each of us, or our estates,
anyhow.

Patriarch

You know, I really hope that in my case, that there are no tools in the yard
sale..
As much time as the kids have spent in the shop on their little projects, I'd
hope that they'd want our tools and might even use them..




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:
On Mon, 16 May 2005 21:25:26 -0500, Patriarch
wrote:


charlie b wrote in news:4288E2A9.53C7
:

snip of some good stuff, as usual

If so, what is the grand kid, or great
grand kid going to inherit and maybe actually
find useful and valuable?

charlie b

The stuff you make with those tools, the care that went into that, and the
time you take with the grandkid is what is going to be useful and valuable.

But you knew that already.


ps - to paraphrase Jimmy Carter, I have lust
in my heart for Festool's saber saw
AND plunge router and one of their cute
little vacuum cleaner things

So crack open the wallet, and buy some of that stuff. There's gonna be a
hell of a yard sale sometime in the future for each of us, or our estates,
anyhow.

Patriarch


You know, I really hope that in my case, that there are no tools in the yard
sale..
As much time as the kids have spent in the shop on their little projects, I'd
hope that they'd want our tools and might even use them..

Unfortunately, my son has no interest in woodworking, no interest in
mechanics, no interest in..... Hmmm, what is he interested in? Females,
and that's about it. None of my 4 daughters have any interest in my
tools, but my youngest two want my Harley. I guess all my stuff will
end up in a yard sale.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

Seems utterly pathetic that most of the "big three" have fallen for
the $19.95 slime ads! I quit CBS then the other followed their lead
but it seems to be abating recently.

On 17 May 2005 05:24:48 -0700, "Charlie Self"
wrote:

I do watch the news, but it mostly makes me whimper. Too selective in
reporting in the big three, while Fox is so biased as to be asinine.

Odinn wrote:

snip

Unfortunately, my son has no interest in woodworking, no interest in
mechanics, no interest in..... Hmmm, what is he interested in? Females,
and that's about it. None of my 4 daughters have any interest in my
tools, but my youngest two want my Harley. I guess all my stuff will
end up in a yard sale.


Don't give up on him yet. My oldest, who showed absolutely no
interested in woodworking of any sort is now building his mother
a house and working on his contractor's license. My youngest,
out of the clear blue, asked if I'd show him how to make a pair
of cabinets for his LPs collection. We collaborated on the design,
he picked out the materials, I did the set ups for the parts
making but he did the actual work. One of them is bound to
want to move my 1100 pound Robland X31 combination machine
(and no, it's nothing like s ShopSmith), 165 pound mortising
machine and maybe the 300 pounds of hand tools in my two
wall hanging tool cabinets.

Maybe one of the neighborhood kids who spent time in
the shop during the summers making magic wands,
D-8 Catapiller tractors, treasure/jewerly boxes,
paddle wheel boats or wooden puppets will, as adults,
want some of the tools they remember using as a kid.
Turn on a power tool in a neighborhood during the
summer and you'll have kids in the shop in no time.

What really worries me is what will become of the special
wood stash I may not get to in this lifetime - wide poplar
boards with PURPLE heartwood, the beautifully figured quilted
maple plank I call Mae West because she's brash and
flamboyant, the Bear Glawed spruce, the 14" wide, 12 foot
long book matched "Mexican Mahogany" boards, the 8/4
spalted maple plank . . .

Bottom line for me is not what happens to the tools, or,
for that matter, anything I made - but rather how long
the memories last of the making and using. The "stuff"
are merely postcards from the journey. It's the memories
of the journey that are what's valuable.

Every day we make memories - for ourselves and for
others. Good ones aren't that hard to create.

charlie b

charlie b wrote:
Odinn wrote:

snip


Unfortunately, my son has no interest in woodworking, no interest in
mechanics, no interest in..... Hmmm, what is he interested in? Females,
and that's about it. None of my 4 daughters have any interest in my
tools, but my youngest two want my Harley. I guess all my stuff will
end up in a yard sale.



Don't give up on him yet.

I already did, he joined the Marines 4 years ago

My oldest, who showed absolutely no
interested in woodworking of any sort is now building his mother
a house and working on his contractor's license. My youngest,
out of the clear blue, asked if I'd show him how to make a pair
of cabinets for his LPs collection. We collaborated on the design,
he picked out the materials, I did the set ups for the parts
making but he did the actual work. One of them is bound to
want to move my 1100 pound Robland X31 combination machine
(and no, it's nothing like s ShopSmith), 165 pound mortising
machine and maybe the 300 pounds of hand tools in my two
wall hanging tool cabinets.

Maybe one of the neighborhood kids who spent time in
the shop during the summers making magic wands,
D-8 Catapiller tractors, treasure/jewerly boxes,
paddle wheel boats or wooden puppets will, as adults,
want some of the tools they remember using as a kid.
Turn on a power tool in a neighborhood during the
summer and you'll have kids in the shop in no time.

I don't have a neighborhood, my closest neighbor is 150 ft away thru the
woods, and I like it like that

What really worries me is what will become of the special
wood stash I may not get to in this lifetime - wide poplar
boards with PURPLE heartwood, the beautifully figured quilted
maple plank I call Mae West because she's brash and
flamboyant, the Bear Glawed spruce, the 14" wide, 12 foot
long book matched "Mexican Mahogany" boards, the 8/4
spalted maple plank . . .

I'm trying to get my own collection going. I'm off to Chesapeake VA to
my Father-in-law's house for Memorial Day weekend to cut up some maples
and other trees and have milled. I know there are at least 4 trees, and
the smallest one is about 20" in diameter. Milling it all up and
hauling back as much as my pickemup will hold, stacking the rest of it
to pick up at some later time.

Bottom line for me is not what happens to the tools, or,
for that matter, anything I made - but rather how long
the memories last of the making and using. The "stuff"
are merely postcards from the journey. It's the memories
of the journey that are what's valuable.

My memory is so bad, I'm lucky to remember what I had for breakfast,
much less what project I built

Every day we make memories - for ourselves and for
others. Good ones aren't that hard to create.

Yeah, I hope someone remembers the things I do, good, bad, or indifferent

--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

Odinn wrote in :

snip

I'm trying to get my own collection going. I'm off to Chesapeake VA
to my Father-in-law's house for Memorial Day weekend to cut up some
maples and other trees and have milled. I know there are at least 4
trees, and the smallest one is about 20" in diameter. Milling it all
up and hauling back as much as my pickemup will hold, stacking the
rest of it to pick up at some later time.

18 months ago, some friends & I did a 9' Western Red Cedar, 2" slabs, for a
Boy Scout project. The weight was quite surprising. I drove two miles
very carefully with that load.

As my trucking friends would say: "You'll likely gross out before you cube
out."

Maybe consider a trailer of some sort?

Patriarch

In article ,
"Swingman" wrote:

Yep ... from which springs a definite impression that the culture is
populated with barely functional, fist pumping, male idiots who can't get it
up.

As a left-leaning centrist I've been quite upset lately by a few
commercials during the 7:00 after-dinner hour. One such that got my
boxers in a bunch is the latest Jack-in-the-Box ad for some contest
they're running. An employee at JitB HQ is reading a poster for the
contest on an office window and commenting out loud about the prizes. In
the midst of this stream of consciousness he says something on the order
of, "Jack should give away a night with his wife." He then sees that
JitB employees are not eligible and tears the poster off the window and
the viewer sees a stunned "Jack" who heard it all. Problem is that my 6
year old heard it all too. JitB will be getting a letter from me - my
first ever to a company about inappropriate messages in their
advertising.

My wife and I are getting to the point of stating "no TV other than
PBS." I can't think of any evening show that hasn't made us cringe on
occasion while watching as a family. Even some of "Everybody Loves
Raymond" reruns contain innuendo that is not suitable for young
children. I'd much rather my daughter be exposed to sensitively done
segments on same-sex households on Buster's Postcards than the cheap,
wink-wink, often 15 year old's juvenile, sex humor of family TV
programming.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

Fly-by-Night CC wrote:
In article ,
"Swingman" wrote:


Yep ... from which springs a definite impression that the culture is
populated with barely functional, fist pumping, male idiots who can't get it
up.


As a left-leaning centrist I've been quite upset lately by a few
commercials during the 7:00 after-dinner hour.

snip

My definition of at least 85% of commercial programming on TV these days:

Designed by and executed for congenital idiots.

Lew

Fly-by-Night CC wrote in
news
severe snippage of a bunch of valid posts

My wife and I are getting to the point of stating "no TV other than
PBS." I can't think of any evening show that hasn't made us cringe on
occasion while watching as a family.

We have gotten to the point that mt wife & I watch almost nothing that
doesn't get captured through TiVo first. Even relatively decent content is
often contaminated by inane, offensive commercials, often for material to
be broadcast on channels in which we have absolutely no interest.

And 44 minutes to view a 60 minute program has its benefits as well.

Baseball without beer commercials becomes watchable. Zipping through the
last three innings, with 4 pitching changes per team, becomes almost
realistic, before falling asleep. Or not.

TiVo with sattelite works for us. 6 'local' PBS channels, + Discovery's
full suite. YMMV.

Patriarch

Patriarch wrote:
Odinn wrote in :

snip


I'm trying to get my own collection going. I'm off to Chesapeake VA
to my Father-in-law's house for Memorial Day weekend to cut up some
maples and other trees and have milled. I know there are at least 4
trees, and the smallest one is about 20" in diameter. Milling it all
up and hauling back as much as my pickemup will hold, stacking the
rest of it to pick up at some later time.


18 months ago, some friends & I did a 9' Western Red Cedar, 2" slabs, for a
Boy Scout project. The weight was quite surprising. I drove two miles
very carefully with that load.

As my trucking friends would say: "You'll likely gross out before you cube
out."

Maybe consider a trailer of some sort?


I'll be pulling my 6x10 5000lb trailer as well. My Dodge Ram 1500 has
pulled a 10,000 lb load with no problem many times, so I'm pretty sure
I'll be able to haul a good bit of it. I don't expect to be able to
stack the bed that full (besides, the wife needs some space left in the
back to put her 2 huge suitcases for the weekend).

--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

On Mon, 16 May 2005 14:05:03 -0700, David wrote:

In the BX at Bien Hoa, Vietnam in 1969. The warranty was 90
days.

But it only gets one channel?

Australopithecus scobis wrote:
But it only gets one channel?

Does it wake you up with Goooood Morning?

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

Dave in Fairfax wrote:
Australopithecus scobis wrote:

But it only gets one channel?


Does it wake you up with Goooood Morning?

VietNAAAAMMMM! g

Dave


Dave in Fairfax

g It's a bit more generous stateside, although I do listen to only
one radio station in my area.

Dave

Australopithecus scobis wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2005 14:05:03 -0700, David wrote:


In the BX at Bien Hoa, Vietnam in 1969. The warranty was 90
days.


But it only gets one channel?

On Wed, 18 May 2005 11:09:40 -0500, Patriarch
wrote:

Fly-by-Night CC wrote in
news
severe snippage of a bunch of valid posts

My wife and I are getting to the point of stating "no TV other than
PBS." I can't think of any evening show that hasn't made us cringe on
occasion while watching as a family.

We have gotten to the point that mt wife & I watch almost nothing that
doesn't get captured through TiVo first. Even relatively decent content is
often contaminated by inane, offensive commercials, often for material to
be broadcast on channels in which we have absolutely no interest.


Latest really-stupid commercial observed during the nightly news. Some
car commercial with a bunch of cars driving around with tails in the air
and only front tires on the ground. Background voiceover intones, "get a
car that uses all 4 wheels (or something to that effect)" as the car being
advertised goes zipping around all the cars driving on their front tires
only. Really, really, stupid CYA legalese pigeon-dropping: "professional
drivers on closed course" uh-huh.



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

In article ,
Mark & Juanita wrote:

Latest really-stupid commercial observed during the nightly news. Some
car commercial with a bunch of cars driving around with tails in the air
and only front tires on the ground. Background voiceover intones, "get a
car that uses all 4 wheels (or something to that effect)" as the car being
advertised goes zipping around all the cars driving on their front tires
only. Really, really, stupid CYA legalese pigeon-dropping: "professional
drivers on closed course" uh-huh.

Those Mentos commercials still bug me. Not offensive or anything - just
weird, weird, weird. After one ends I'm usually found with a "I don't
get it" expression and a slow head shake.

On the flip side - I like the Geico ads where they set you up believing
that what you're watching is a real promo for a new show or something -
then wrap it into a message about Geico insurance. There's one with a
newlywed couple spending a year doing a reality TV show where everything
in their house is about 1/2 the normal size. Well done.

There was an ad run locally for a satellite TV service - saying how poor
the service on cable is with blackouts and repairmen never showing up.
Problem is that the ad is run on Comcast cable and I can't remember the
last time our service went out.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

On Wed, 18 May 2005 17:29:26 -0700, the inscrutable David
spake:



Dave in Fairfax wrote:
Australopithecus scobis wrote:

But it only gets one channel?

Does it wake you up with Goooood Morning?

VietNAAAAMMMM! g

My favorite line from that movie was Williams' comment to his
little pipsqueak boss:

"Lieutenant, you don't know whether you're shot, ****ed, powder-burned
or snakebit. I don't -care- about polkas."


------------------------------------------
Do the voices in my head bother you?
------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full-Service Web Development

You mention the people don't 'bother registering the product' with the
implication that registering activates the warrantee. I had taken an
industrial engineering class and the prof said that warrantees are
activated with the purchase event. The sales receipt not the Registration
Card (regardless of what it says) activates the warrantee. He said that the
Registration Card is actually a clever manufacturing control to monitor how
long it takes a product to go from factory loading dock to consumer's hands.
He said that factories like constant, consistent production schedules to
optimize efficiency. But factory output is usually sold at wholesale and
typically volume discounts apply. A wholesaler could purchase a large
volume (to get a favorable volume price) and then just store the product in
a warehouse. Meanwhile, the factory had to create temporary, extra capacity
(work overtime, new temporary production lines, etc.) to meet the production
commitment. The factory becomes inefficient because of the price advantage
it make to the wholesaler and not the consumer demand for its product. The
Registration Card is the way the factory knows that the product has finally
made its way to a retail customer. The factory can analyze the registration
information to determine if the wholesaler is hording the product. This
information could influence the factory's willingness to offer volume
discounts to wholesalers.


"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 May 2005 14:05:03 -0700, David wrote:

I'm not following your logic. The length of a warranty is not
proportional to the longevity of an item. It's more of a business
decision than an indicator of how long some item will last. The
exception to that would be items such as batteries, tires, mattresses,
etc that have a projected life span and come with a pro-rated warranty
to provide relief to the consumer should the item fail before the
warranty period has elapsed. Those types of items are more like
consumables. Batteries ALWAYS fail at some point. Tires wear out.
Mattresses sag. I've got a radio that still works fine. Guess where I
bought it. In the BX at Bien Hoa, Vietnam in 1969. The warranty was 90
days.

Dave

I think that a lot of companies sell junk by adding a long or lifetime
warranty
to it..
In reality, most folks DON'T follow up on warranties or even bother
registering
the product.. and it's not a secret in the industry..

I buy a lot of stuff from Harbor Freight... ever read their "life time"
warranty?
Pretty much says that if you think it's their fault, mail it to them for
evaluation.. if they think it's you're fault, you're screwed... if they
think
it's their fault, they fix or replace, their choice...
How many people are going to go through that much hassle for a $20 angle
grinder
that dies?
It's like taking a hamster to the vet.. they'll tell you to get a new
hamster..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:18:13 -0400, Odinn wrote:

Patriarch wrote:
Odinn wrote in :

snip


I'm trying to get my own collection going. I'm off to Chesapeake VA
to my Father-in-law's house for Memorial Day weekend to cut up some
maples and other trees and have milled. I know there are at least 4
trees, and the smallest one is about 20" in diameter. Milling it all
up and hauling back as much as my pickemup will hold, stacking the
rest of it to pick up at some later time.


18 months ago, some friends & I did a 9' Western Red Cedar, 2" slabs, for a
Boy Scout project. The weight was quite surprising. I drove two miles
very carefully with that load.

As my trucking friends would say: "You'll likely gross out before you cube
out."

Maybe consider a trailer of some sort?


I'll be pulling my 6x10 5000lb trailer as well. My Dodge Ram 1500 has
pulled a 10,000 lb load with no problem many times, so I'm pretty sure
I'll be able to haul a good bit of it. I don't expect to be able to
stack the bed that full (besides, the wife needs some space left in the
back to put her 2 huge suitcases for the weekend).

if she packs like my wife does, that will be heavier than the lumber..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Jim Giblin" wrote in message
news:a_1je.13181$4d6.8345@trndny04...
You mention the people don't 'bother registering the product' with the
implication that registering activates the warrantee. I had taken an
industrial engineering class and the prof said that warrantees are
activated with the purchase event. The sales receipt not the Registration
Card (regardless of what it says) activates the warrantee. He said that
the Registration Card is actually a clever manufacturing control to
monitor how long it takes a product to go from factory loading dock to
consumer's hands. He said that factories like constant, consistent
production schedules to optimize efficiency. But factory output is
usually sold at wholesale and typically volume discounts apply. A
wholesaler could purchase a large volume (to get a favorable volume price)
and then just store the product in a warehouse. Meanwhile, the factory
had to create temporary, extra capacity (work overtime, new temporary
production lines, etc.) to meet the production commitment. The factory
becomes inefficient because of the price advantage it make to the
wholesaler and not the consumer demand for its product. The Registration
Card is the way the factory knows that the product has finally made its
way to a retail customer. The factory can analyze the registration
information to determine if the wholesaler is hording the product. This
information could influence the factory's willingness to offer volume
discounts to wholesalers.

also a good way to get addresses for spam

i recently purchased a large screen jvc. i never send in warrantee cards,
but they still tracked me down somehow, probably through the information
returned from the seller to jvc directly, in order to do a product recall.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az