Upscale wrote:
I'm thinking on building a trestle picnic table and I need some advice on
constructing it. With the attached picture in mind, how would one go about
attaching the vertical part of the support to the horizontal supports?

I was thinking of using a half lap and carriage bolts to fasten them
together, but before I get to that stage, I figured I'd look for other
suggestions.

Thanks



Mortise & Tenon.

I'm thinking on building a trestle picnic table and I need some advice on
constructing it. With the attached picture in mind, how would one go about
attaching the vertical part of the support to the horizontal supports?

I was thinking of using a half lap and carriage bolts to fasten them
together, but before I get to that stage, I figured I'd look for other
suggestions.

Thanks

Upscale wrote:
"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
Mortise & Tenon.

Yeah, I considered that right away, but I don't currently have the skill or
facilities for M&T.


You can do the mortises using 3/4" material glued and laminated together
after ploughing out 3/8" deep on each half to receive the tenon. You
could use 1-1/2" material for a beefier look and make the mortise
ploughs about 1/2" deep for 1" tenons. The ploughing out can be done
with multiple cross cuts with a hand saw and clean up with a chisel, a
router or multiple crosscuts with a tablesaw or RAS. The 3/4" thick
tenons are pretty easy using a piece of 2x8 or 2x10 with hand tools or a
TS or RAS. It won't matter that the M&Ts are through as nobody will see
the through part. Glue with titebond 3 for outdoor use.

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
Mortise & Tenon.

Yeah, I considered that right away, but I don't currently have the skill or
facilities for M&T.

Upscale wrote:
"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
You can do the mortises using 3/4" material glued and laminated together
after ploughing out 3/8" deep on each half to receive the tenon. You
could use 1-1/2" material for a beefier look and make the mortise
ploughs about 1/2" deep for 1" tenons.

I have routers and chisels and can get access to my tablesaw which currently
resides at a friend's place. But, I'm not understanding completely what
you're saying to me. Are you suggesting that I basically cut a slot along
the centre wide edge of both halves and essentially put in a floating
through tenon? I was intending to use 2x8 or 2x10 lumber for the vertical
and horizontal pieces. With the 10" blade on the tablesaw, I can cut close
to 4" deep for the slots.


No floating tenons. What I'm trying to describe (poorly) is to cut half
of the through tenon in each of two pieces that will make up each
horizontal member of the pedestals - essentially a lap joint cut. Then,
glue these two pieces together with the lap joint cuts facing each other
producing a through mortise. The tenons would be as long as the width
of the material with the lap joints/mortise.

Doug Winterburn wrote:
Upscale wrote:
"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
You can do the mortises using 3/4" material glued and laminated together
after ploughing out 3/8" deep on each half to receive the tenon. You
could use 1-1/2" material for a beefier look and make the mortise
ploughs about 1/2" deep for 1" tenons.

I have routers and chisels and can get access to my tablesaw which
currently
resides at a friend's place. But, I'm not understanding completely what
you're saying to me. Are you suggesting that I basically cut a slot along
the centre wide edge of both halves and essentially put in a floating
through tenon? I was intending to use 2x8 or 2x10 lumber for the vertical
and horizontal pieces. With the 10" blade on the tablesaw, I can cut
close
to 4" deep for the slots.



Correction below:

No floating tenons. What I'm trying to describe (poorly) is to cut half
of the through mortise in each of two pieces that will make up each
horizontal member of the pedestals - essentially a lap joint cut. Then,
glue these two pieces together with the lap joint cuts facing each other
producing a through mortise. The tenons would be as long as the width
of the material with the lap joints/mortise.

He's suggesting you cut your legs in half or start that way. Then cut
a 3/8" inch notch out of each side (facing each other) And the tennon
you can cut most of it with a table saw and bandsaw or hand saw.

The downside I'm seeing is the plan looks like it's suppose to be a
flush mount with a long rod through the entire length. That you could
do by laminating the crossbrace after cutting space for the rod the
length of the board. Then I dry fit the table legs and brace then make
some marks for pins and simply use pins to keep the brace from
turning. Or you could use the Kreig pocket hole system to secure it
from rotating on the rod.


On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:10:36 -0500, "Upscale"
wrote:


"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
You can do the mortises using 3/4" material glued and laminated together
after ploughing out 3/8" deep on each half to receive the tenon. You
could use 1-1/2" material for a beefier look and make the mortise
ploughs about 1/2" deep for 1" tenons.

I have routers and chisels and can get access to my tablesaw which currently
resides at a friend's place. But, I'm not understanding completely what
you're saying to me. Are you suggesting that I basically cut a slot along
the centre wide edge of both halves and essentially put in a floating
through tenon? I was intending to use 2x8 or 2x10 lumber for the vertical
and horizontal pieces. With the 10" blade on the tablesaw, I can cut close
to 4" deep for the slots.

Upscale wrote:
wrote in message
some marks for pins and simply use pins to keep the brace from
turning. Or you could use the Kreig pocket hole system to secure it
from rotating on the rod.

Hmm, hadn't thought about it rotating, but it shouldn't be too difficult to
insert some sort of double ended pin arrangement to prevent that.


Or use striker's laminated horizontal member with two anchor rods -
stronger yet :-)

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
You can do the mortises using 3/4" material glued and laminated together
after ploughing out 3/8" deep on each half to receive the tenon. You
could use 1-1/2" material for a beefier look and make the mortise
ploughs about 1/2" deep for 1" tenons.

I have routers and chisels and can get access to my tablesaw which currently
resides at a friend's place. But, I'm not understanding completely what
you're saying to me. Are you suggesting that I basically cut a slot along
the centre wide edge of both halves and essentially put in a floating
through tenon? I was intending to use 2x8 or 2x10 lumber for the vertical
and horizontal pieces. With the 10" blade on the tablesaw, I can cut close
to 4" deep for the slots.

Upscale wrote:
"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
No floating tenons. What I'm trying to describe (poorly) is to cut half
of the through mortise in each of two pieces that will make up each
horizontal member of the pedestals - essentially a lap joint cut. Then,
glue these two pieces together with the lap joint cuts facing each other
producing a through mortise. The tenons would be as long as the width
of the material with the lap joints/mortise.

I think I understand, but I'm not absolutely sure. Let me draw what I'm
visualizing by your suggestion and upload it and you can tell me if I got it
or not.


Here's the idea done with sketchup .099 :-)

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
No floating tenons. What I'm trying to describe (poorly) is to cut half
of the through mortise in each of two pieces that will make up each
horizontal member of the pedestals - essentially a lap joint cut. Then,
glue these two pieces together with the lap joint cuts facing each other
producing a through mortise. The tenons would be as long as the width
of the material with the lap joints/mortise.

I think I understand, but I'm not absolutely sure. Let me draw what I'm
visualizing by your suggestion and upload it and you can tell me if I got it
or not.

wrote in message
some marks for pins and simply use pins to keep the brace from
turning. Or you could use the Kreig pocket hole system to secure it
from rotating on the rod.

Hmm, hadn't thought about it rotating, but it shouldn't be too difficult to
insert some sort of double ended pin arrangement to prevent that.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
Mortise & Tenon.

Yeah, I considered that right away, but I don't currently have the skill
or
facilities for M&T.

My dining room table has through tenons that are pinned on the outside.
That way you cut a hole rather than a mortise. Been holding up that way for
30+ years now so I guess it is a good idea.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking on building a trestle picnic table and I need some advice on
constructing it. With the attached picture in mind, how would one go about
attaching the vertical part of the support to the horizontal supports?

I was thinking of using a half lap and carriage bolts to fasten them
together, but before I get to that stage, I figured I'd look for other
suggestions.

Nothing new under the sun:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/Projects5.htm

Scroll down to the trestle table. Let me know if you have any questions.


--
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Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
I think I understand, but I'm not absolutely sure. Let me draw what I'm
visualizing by your suggestion and upload it and you can tell me if I
got it
or not.

Here's the idea done with sketchup .099 :-)

Ok, thanks Doug. Your sketch confirms what I understood you to be saying.
One last question. Do you think the gluing together of the two horizontal
feet to encase the half lapped through tenon will be sufficient to hold them
together? I have a tendency to overbuild things and am experiencing a
drastic need to bolt the two feet together. I know a properly glued joining
of wood is generally stronger than the wood itself, but that doesn't stop me
from feeling as I do. And yeah, I like the idea of using two anchor rods
through the stretcher. It feeds my addiction to overbuilding.

All I need to do now is to choose what type of wood I'll use. The exorbitant
cost of Redwood or Cedar hereabouts all but eliminates my using them, but
I'm sure I'll find something that properly treated will give a number of
years service.

Thanks guys.

"Swingman" wrote in message
http://www.e-woodshop.net/Projects5.htm

Scroll down to the trestle table. Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks Karl. The three support end columns are very appealing visually and
would offer additional table support. I might do that just for the
aesthetics of it.

How wide is the tabletop you used? It looks a little larger than what I
think I'd use for an outdoor picnic table. I was considering close to 39" in
width or as close as I could get to that with spacing of 7 each, 2x6 lumber
each spaced about 1/8". I was also thinking about more of an end overhang so
people could sit at the ends of the table too.

"Upscale" wrote

Thanks Karl. The three support end columns are very appealing visually and
would offer additional table support. I might do that just for the
aesthetics of it.

How wide is the tabletop you used? It looks a little larger than what I
think I'd use for an outdoor picnic table. I was considering close to 39"
in
width or as close as I could get to that with spacing of 7 each, 2x6
lumber
each spaced about 1/8".

72 x 42 ... which leaves sufficient room for serving dishes in the middle of
the table top, with plenty of room for place settings on the edges.

In the research I did during the design phase of this project, it was obvous
that anything narrower in width in a dining table can get crowded unless
you're dining "buffet style" ... but narrower would be fine for most
outdoor, or less formal applications.

I was also thinking about more of an end overhang so
people could sit at the ends of the table too.

During the design stage of the trestle table on the web site, I "angsted"
over the 'overhang issue' quite a bit.

After experimentation/trial and error with various size plywood tops, and
considering the size limitations in the spot it was built for, I settled on
a 12" overhang for the two ends.

And, in use, the 12" overhang has worked perfectly. There have been no
complaints, it is comfortable, and not something you even notice in daily
use, even for us 6' 200 pounders. I've even sat at one or two trestle tables
with 11" overhangs and sitting at them was not noticeably uncomfortable in
any way.

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

Upscale wrote:
"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
I think I understand, but I'm not absolutely sure. Let me draw what I'm
visualizing by your suggestion and upload it and you can tell me if I
got it
or not.

Here's the idea done with sketchup .099 :-)

Ok, thanks Doug. Your sketch confirms what I understood you to be saying.
One last question. Do you think the gluing together of the two horizontal
feet to encase the half lapped through tenon will be sufficient to hold them
together? I have a tendency to overbuild things and am experiencing a
drastic need to bolt the two feet together. I know a properly glued joining
of wood is generally stronger than the wood itself, but that doesn't stop me
from feeling as I do. And yeah, I like the idea of using two anchor rods
through the stretcher. It feeds my addiction to overbuilding.

Galooh would be enough for me, but since it's an outdoor project, a few
galvanized carriage bolts wouldn't hurt.

All I need to do now is to choose what type of wood I'll use. The exorbitant
cost of Redwood or Cedar hereabouts all but eliminates my using them, but
I'm sure I'll find something that properly treated will give a number of
years service.

Thanks guys.

Upscale,

This is a great time to learn. There are many different ways to create a
mortise and tenon joint.

Pick one and have at it.

You'll learn.

W. Kirk Crawford
Tularosa, New Mexico

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
Mortise & Tenon.

Yeah, I considered that right away, but I don't currently have the skill
or
facilities for M&T.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
I was wondering what methods people have employed to cover the embedded
steel stringer?

I have two thoughts.

Knowing your application, I wonder if a barrel nut and machine screw may not
work. They are often used in indoor applications, expecially for bed
corners. If you were to bury the nut or cover it with a plug, etc you may
be able to get away with it.

The other thing I would suggest, since it is an outdoor application, to just
use a lag screw. I have built lots of furniture with 2 X 10's and 2 X12's
that used lag screws as the promary fastener. I built lots of water bed
frames with lag screws. And the corners of the bed frames would take far
more stress than a picnic table would.

"W. Kirk Crawford" wrote in message
This is a great time to learn. There are many different ways to create a
mortise and tenon joint.

I'm sure I'm capable of learning, but in this case it's going to be a gift
for someone and I'm under a time constraint. I just don't have the time for
a little trial and error when I know I can put it together and have it
function and look well very quickly.

I was wondering what methods people have employed to cover the embedded
steel stringer?

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
Knowing your application, I wonder if a barrel nut and machine screw may
not
work. They are often used in indoor applications, expecially for bed
corners. If you were to bury the nut or cover it with a plug, etc you may
be able to get away with it.

I'm going to be routing out a dado for the 6' steel stringer. Other than
just laying a strip of wood of the entire length of the open dado, I was
trying to envision some type of covering that was a little more exotic.

Well, you could use a different type of color of wood in the slot or
as I suggested cut a second piece with out a lost and just sandwich
the two pieces together with the rod running through the middle.


On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:04:15 -0500, "Upscale"
wrote:


"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
Knowing your application, I wonder if a barrel nut and machine screw may
not
work. They are often used in indoor applications, expecially for bed
corners. If you were to bury the nut or cover it with a plug, etc you may
be able to get away with it.

I'm going to be routing out a dado for the 6' steel stringer. Other than
just laying a strip of wood of the entire length of the open dado, I was
trying to envision some type of covering that was a little more exotic.

wrote in message
Well, you could use a different type of color of wood in the slot or
as I suggested cut a second piece with out a lost and just sandwich
the two pieces together with the rod running through the middle.

Yeah, I guess it doesn't have to be anything special. After all, it's going
to be outdoors and experiencing considerable weathering. Although, now I'm
seriously considering Lee's suggestion of bed bolts which would simplify
things considerably.

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
Knowing your application, I wonder if a barrel nut and machine screw may
not work. They are often used in indoor applications, expecially for bed

"Upscale" wrote

wrote in message
Well, you could use a different type of color of wood in the slot or
as I suggested cut a second piece with out a lost and just sandwich
the two pieces together with the rod running through the middle.

Yeah, I guess it doesn't have to be anything special. After all, it's
going
to be outdoors and experiencing considerable weathering. Although, now I'm
seriously considering Lee's suggestion of bed bolts which would simplify
things considerably.

It seems to me that some folks who sell wood bench plans and parts kits do
something like this. I know I have seen them somewhere but can't remember
where. It seemed to me that they were much more heavy duty than your
ordinary bed bolts.

And I have also seen picnic benches built with those steel straps you get at
the lumber yard. Again, the name excapes me. You know, those steel thingies
that come in a hundred different configurations to join wood together. It
ain't all that purty, but quick and sturdy. And most of the steel is
underneath where it won't be seen.

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
It seems to me that some folks who sell wood bench plans and parts kits do
something like this. I know I have seen them somewhere but can't remember
where. It seemed to me that they were much more heavy duty than your
ordinary bed bolts.

Lee Valley Tools has a set of four bed bolts for $16, but they also have
bench bolts which are longer and more substantial for about $30 and those
are the ones I'm considering. Considering the cost of wood that is durable
outdoors, I can go with the bench bolts and tell the friends I'm building
this for to take the table apart every fall and store it in indoors for the
winter. The bench bolts would make this relatively easy.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...47&cat=1,41637

"Upscale" wrote

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
It seems to me that some folks who sell wood bench plans and parts kits
do
something like this. I know I have seen them somewhere but can't
remember
where. It seemed to me that they were much more heavy duty than your
ordinary bed bolts.

Lee Valley Tools has a set of four bed bolts for $16, but they also have
bench bolts which are longer and more substantial for about $30 and those
are the ones I'm considering. Considering the cost of wood that is durable
outdoors, I can go with the bench bolts and tell the friends I'm building
this for to take the table apart every fall and store it in indoors for
the
winter. The bench bolts would make this relatively easy.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...47&cat=1,41637


There ya go. That is what I remembered. I just did not remember where.
That should do the trick.

"Upscale"wrote

but they also have
bench bolts which are longer and more substantial for about $30 and those
are the ones I'm considering. Considering the cost of wood that is durable

Have you already bought the "six foot steel stringer" (otherwise known as
"all-thread")?

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message a "Upscale"wrote

but they also have
bench bolts which are longer and more substantial for about $30 and
those
are the ones I'm considering. Considering the cost of wood that is
durable

Have you already bought the "six foot steel stringer" (otherwise known as
"all-thread")?

Not yet, I was expecting to buy the coming week and build the weekend after.
As well, I'm planning on using LV's bench bolts with two wood stringers. Not
as exotic, but it will make it much more convenient for me to build (and for
my friends to dismantle).

"Upscale" wrote in message

"Swingman" wrote in message

Hi Karl, considering this is going to be an outdoor picnic table, what
kind
of hardware would you recommend to attach the table top to the aligning
2x4's underneath? Essentially, the table top will be composed of 2"x6"
pieces, spaced approximately 1/8". I was thinking of using stainless steel
ring shanked nails. And considering this table is intended to be
dismantled,
I thought a few simple short lengths of 3/4" width dowel could be used to
align the table top when sitting on the legs.

Since it's going to be subject to dismantling, I would drill the appropriate
number of holes and use stove bolts w/washers to attach the 2 x 4 "spacers"
(mounted vertically) on the bottom of the table top, to the top of the
trestle assembly, as below.

The drilled holes should be sufficient for future aligning.

But, that's without benefit of seeing your design.


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KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message

Hi Karl, considering this is going to be an outdoor picnic table, what kind
of hardware would you recommend to attach the table top to the aligning
2x4's underneath? Essentially, the table top will be composed of 2"x6"
pieces, spaced approximately 1/8". I was thinking of using stainless steel
ring shanked nails. And considering this table is intended to be dismantled,
I thought a few simple short lengths of 3/4" width dowel could be used to
align the table top when sitting on the legs.

wrote in message
...
Well, you could use a different type of color of wood in the slot or
as I suggested cut a second piece with out a lost and just sandwich
the two pieces together with the rod running through the middle.



Have you thought about a wedge and tenon.

This gives yoyu a few details.




http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=3&gl=us

In article ,
"Swingman" wrote:

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking on building a trestle picnic table and I need some advice on
constructing it. With the attached picture in mind, how would one go about
attaching the vertical part of the support to the horizontal supports?

I was thinking of using a half lap and carriage bolts to fasten them
together, but before I get to that stage, I figured I'd look for other
suggestions.

Nothing new under the sun:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/Projects5.htm

Scroll down to the trestle table. Let me know if you have any questions.

I remember looking at that table before, with some interest. Now, upon
revisiting your link, I think I might steal that design....with your
permission of course? It has a nice balance. Well done, sir. *tips hat*

r

"Ritalin Escape Corp" wrote

http://www.e-woodshop.net/Projects5.htm

Scroll down to the trestle table. Let me know if you have any questions.

I remember looking at that table before, with some interest. Now, upon
revisiting your link, I think I might steal that design....with your
permission of course? It has a nice balance. Well done, sir. *tips hat*

Be my guest ... be sure to read the 20/20 Hindsight remarks.

.... and post a picture when you're done.


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KarlC@ (the obvious)