I have a router table with a behind-the-fence 2-1/4" port for
attaching a Shop-Vac. I've been thinking of inserting a cyclone
separator to avoid having to empty the Shop-Vac so frequently.

I have a small steel barrel about 19-1/4" in diameter, and it should
be no big deal to make a plywood lid. What I don't have are the
30-degree and 90-degree flanged fittings.

This evening, I realized that I could cut 3-1/2" x 3-1/2" squares from
cutoffs, drill a 2-1/4" hole in the center, and glue 'em together to
make a square "pipe" - then saw the pipe in half on the diagonal to
produce not one, but /two/ intake fittings. The result won't be
exactly 30-degrees, but it'll be "close enough".

My drawing shows four 2x pipe segments, but the segment thickness
doesn't matter.

I'm thinking of using a template and drilling four 1/4" holes so I can
use dowels to ensure alignment (and perhaps add a bit of strength),
but this extra work is purely optional.

A fifth 2x "pipe segment" will be used in the center of the lid as the
outlet connector for the Shop-Vac's hose.

I plan to position the two connectors and trace the holes with a
pencil - then drill and use a jig saw to cut matching holes in the
lid. When that's done I'll just glue my hose attachment fittings to
the lid.

I'm still trying to figure out what to do with the second one. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Sat, 12 May 2007 01:10:42 -0500, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

I have a router table with a behind-the-fence 2-1/4" port for
attaching a Shop-Vac. I've been thinking of inserting a cyclone
separator to avoid having to empty the Shop-Vac so frequently.

I have a small steel barrel about 19-1/4" in diameter, and it should
be no big deal to make a plywood lid. What I don't have are the
30-degree and 90-degree flanged fittings.

This evening, I realized that I could cut 3-1/2" x 3-1/2" squares from
cutoffs, drill a 2-1/4" hole in the center, and glue 'em together to
make a square "pipe" - then saw the pipe in half on the diagonal to
produce not one, but /two/ intake fittings. The result won't be
exactly 30-degrees, but it'll be "close enough".

My drawing shows four 2x pipe segments, but the segment thickness
doesn't matter.

I'm thinking of using a template and drilling four 1/4" holes so I can
use dowels to ensure alignment (and perhaps add a bit of strength),
but this extra work is purely optional.

A fifth 2x "pipe segment" will be used in the center of the lid as the
outlet connector for the Shop-Vac's hose.

I plan to position the two connectors and trace the holes with a
pencil - then drill and use a jig saw to cut matching holes in the
lid. When that's done I'll just glue my hose attachment fittings to
the lid.

I'm still trying to figure out what to do with the second one. :-)

Okay. Gotcha. Are you going to cyclone in a helical shape down the
sides of a cylinder? That way you wouldn't need a cone shape... I
imagine you could shape a spiral flange guide out of flat sheet metal
and pop rivet it to the sides of the cylinder. Love to see a pic when
you finish it up and hear how it works.

Bob the Tomato

Bob the Tomato wrote:

| Okay. Gotcha. Are you going to cyclone in a helical shape down the
| sides of a cylinder? That way you wouldn't need a cone shape... I
| imagine you could shape a spiral flange guide out of flat sheet
| metal and pop rivet it to the sides of the cylinder. Love to see a
| pic when you finish it up and hear how it works.

Not even. I'm going to make a flat lid to fit on top of a small steel
drum.

It's a single drum version of the lash-up shown at the top of the page
at the link below, scaled down for a wimpy 2+hp DeWalt router and a
6hp (advertized) Shop-Vac. BTW, the separators shown in the photo have
worked well enough that after 5+ years of sucking up the dust from the
ShopBot, there's less than 2" of dust in the bottom bag of my DC.

The Shop-Vac does an adequate job of collecting the debris, but fills
up (both the container and the filter) too rapidly. I'm hoping that
this crude little DC will save me time and effort, and allow the
Shop-Vac to run with a cleaner filter.

Even if it doesn't do any of the above, I'll still have managed to
shrink the scrap pile. If it works /really/ well, I'll see how well
they work together for normal clean-up operations. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html

On Sat, 12 May 2007 19:41:57 -0500, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

Bob the Tomato wrote:

| Okay. Gotcha. Are you going to cyclone in a helical shape down the
| sides of a cylinder? That way you wouldn't need a cone shape... I
| imagine you could shape a spiral flange guide out of flat sheet
| metal and pop rivet it to the sides of the cylinder. Love to see a
| pic when you finish it up and hear how it works.

Not even. I'm going to make a flat lid to fit on top of a small steel
drum.

It's a single drum version of the lash-up shown at the top of the page
at the link below, scaled down for a wimpy 2+hp DeWalt router and a
6hp (advertized) Shop-Vac. BTW, the separators shown in the photo have
worked well enough that after 5+ years of sucking up the dust from the
ShopBot, there's less than 2" of dust in the bottom bag of my DC.

The Shop-Vac does an adequate job of collecting the debris, but fills
up (both the container and the filter) too rapidly. I'm hoping that
this crude little DC will save me time and effort, and allow the
Shop-Vac to run with a cleaner filter.

Even if it doesn't do any of the above, I'll still have managed to
shrink the scrap pile. If it works /really/ well, I'll see how well
they work together for normal clean-up operations. :-)


So I imagine that your (advertised) 6 HP shop-vac will draw around 38
amps on a 120 volt circuit, right??? :-)

Bob the Tomato wrote:

| So I imagine that your (advertised) 6 HP shop-vac will draw around
| 38 amps on a 120 volt circuit, right??? :-)

Only if the shop is struck by lightning on 6 consecutive days.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Bob the Tomato wrote:

| Love to see a pic when you finish it up and hear how it works.

Used up 5 short 2x4 cut-offs today. Cut 3-1/2" squares and drilled 'em
for the Shop-Vac hose end before I ran out of play time. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Tue, 15 May 2007 21:39:53 -0500, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

Bob the Tomato wrote:

| Love to see a pic when you finish it up and hear how it works.

Used up 5 short 2x4 cut-offs today. Cut 3-1/2" squares and drilled 'em
for the Shop-Vac hose end before I ran out of play time. :-)


Congratulations. You've invented the adaptor.

My wife would look at that, not appreciating the inherent aesthetics
of it bein' made of wood and all, and say, "You spent two hours making
THAT? A board with a hole in it?"

LOL

Bob the Tomato

Bob the Tomato wrote:

| Congratulations. You've invented the adaptor.
|
| My wife would look at that, not appreciating the inherent aesthetics
| of it bein' made of wood and all, and say, "You spent two hours
| making THAT? A board with a hole in it?"

Yeah, yeah - been there, heard that, don't hear it any more.

Hmm. You could tell her it's like a napkin ring - but for /placemats/
;-)

Five boards, five holes, fifteen minutes - and won't know for sure
that the idea is worth a darn until it's done and tried.

I'm probably too easily amused by simple things. g

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message

Hmm. You could tell her it's like a napkin ring - but for /placemats/
;-)

For bed sheets!


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Glued the four sections together yesterday to make a square "pipe".
Today I cut the block in half on the BS and gave both halves a quick
sanding...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Nice wheel chocs.....

Morris Dovey wrote:

Glued the four sections together yesterday to make a square "pipe".
Today I cut the block in half on the BS and gave both halves a quick
sanding...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

mapdude wrote:

| Nice wheel chocs.....

Wheel chocks are a bit easier because the hole (for a bungee cord)
runs straight across from side to side.

BTW, thanks for the reminder - my shop neighbors are all aircraft
owners and I can use up some/most of my cut-offs on wheel chocks. g

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Just in case I haven't already bored everyone to death by my slow
progress on this thing, here are two more pix of the (still
unfinished) mini-cyclone to go between the router table and the
Shop-Vac.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:
Just in case I haven't already bored everyone to death by my slow
progress on this thing, here are two more pix of the (still
unfinished) mini-cyclone to go between the router table and the
Shop-Vac.

Not dead yet, but can you send one with some wood chips on it soon?? LOL

Rich

Rich wrote:
| Morris Dovey wrote:
|| Just in case I haven't already bored everyone to death by my slow
|| progress on this thing, here are two more pix of the (still
|| unfinished) mini-cyclone to go between the router table and the
|| Shop-Vac.
|
| Not dead yet, but can you send one with some wood chips on it
| soon?? LOL

Does that mean I should try it out even before I sand the rust and old
paint from the barrel and apply the fifteen hand-rubbed coats of
lacquer? ;-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:
| Morris Dovey wrote:
|| Just in case I haven't already bored everyone to death by my slow
|| progress on this thing, here are two more pix of the (still
|| unfinished) mini-cyclone to go between the router table and the
|| Shop-Vac.
|
| Not dead yet, but can you send one with some wood chips on it
| soon?? LOL

Does that mean I should try it out even before I sand the rust and old
paint from the barrel and apply the fifteen hand-rubbed coats of
lacquer? ;-)

Take your time, Morris. I get enough deadlines at work; I come here to
relax. Let the project unfold the way it wants to.

- Owen -

"Morris Dovey" wrote in news:4653b115$0$500$815e3792
@news.qwest.net:

Rich wrote:
| Morris Dovey wrote:
|| Just in case I haven't already bored everyone to death by my slow
|| progress on this thing, here are two more pix of the (still
|| unfinished) mini-cyclone to go between the router table and the
|| Shop-Vac.
|
| Not dead yet, but can you send one with some wood chips on it
| soon?? LOL

Does that mean I should try it out even before I sand the rust and old
paint from the barrel and apply the fifteen hand-rubbed coats of
lacquer? ;-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/



Hey, where can I find a barrel just like that one? Before the hand-rubbed
coats of lacquer? ;-)

Nice work here, Morris. Keep at it!

Patriarch

Patriarch wrote:

| Hey, where can I find a barrel just like that one? Before the
| hand-rubbed coats of lacquer? ;-)

But after the rust-removal? :-D

I dunno - this one spent most of its previous incarnation supporting a
parts washing/degreasing sink in an ultralight aircraft factory, and
I snatched it out of a heap of stuff headed for a landfill after the
business was sold.

I asked the same question, and no one could remember. I think it may
have originally held either engine oil or part washing fluid. There's
no trace of a label or stencil remaining. The lid is, of course, long
gone.

I suggest looking in the Yellow Pages under "Barrels and Drums". In
the Des Moines directory there are three entries: a specialty company
in Omaha that reconditions and recycles - and two oil companies.
Full-size cleaned/reconditioned steel drums typically run about US$20.
You can also get stainless barrels, but not for a price that I'm
willing to pay.

| Nice work here, Morris. Keep at it!

Thanks. It isn't really a razzle-dazzle project - and success isn't
guaranteed - but it's been something to nudge along in odd moments.
Today I drilled the 3/4" lid and glued the two hose blocks in place.
The next step will be to chisel the front and back of the slanted hole
(I had to drill it straight) and smooth the result with a rasp...

Thanks for the encouragement. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Owen Lawrence wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:
| Morris Dovey wrote:
|| Just in case I haven't already bored everyone to death by my slow
|| progress on this thing, here are two more pix of the (still
|| unfinished) mini-cyclone to go between the router table and the
|| Shop-Vac.
|
| Not dead yet, but can you send one with some wood chips on it
| soon?? LOL

Does that mean I should try it out even before I sand the rust and old
paint from the barrel and apply the fifteen hand-rubbed coats of


Hmmm! Another tough call, Morris. Do want to tell us what color(s) you
plan to use so we can try to dissuade you now? Or would you rather just
get it done, show us the photo so we can criticize it later? g

Seriously though, do you just have the intake angled in on the top or do
you also have a baffle on the underside of the lid?

Say What? wrote:
| Owen Lawrence wrote:
|| "Morris Dovey" wrote in message
|| ...
||| Rich wrote:
|||| Morris Dovey wrote:
||||| Just in case I haven't already bored everyone to death by my
||||| slow progress on this thing, here are two more pix of the (still
||||| unfinished) mini-cyclone to go between the router table and the
||||| Shop-Vac.
||||
|||| Not dead yet, but can you send one with some wood chips on it
|||| soon?? LOL
|||
||| Does that mean I should try it out even before I sand the rust
||| and old paint from the barrel and apply the fifteen hand-rubbed
||| coats of
|
| Hmmm! Another tough call, Morris. Do want to tell us what color(s)
| you plan to use so we can try to dissuade you now? Or would you
| rather just get it done, show us the photo so we can criticize it
| later? g

I'm planning to get a half-gallon of NH barber pole spiral lacquer for
the barrel itself, and a quart of star-spangled blue for the top. I
did give serious consideration to pukey-duck yellow and woodworkers'
burple, but decided those colors would seem overly pretentious in my
rather plebeian shop. The interior of the barrel and underside of the
lid should probably be painted BH black so as to absorb as much as
possible of the radiation from dust explosions...

| Seriously though, do you just have the intake angled in on the top
| or do you also have a baffle on the underside of the lid?

The intake will be angled in at about 30 degrees from horizontal and
aimed approximately tangent to the closest part of the barrel. I
considered gluing the other angled block to the underside of the lid,
but decided that it'd probably work better if I minimized
constrictions.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:

I'm planning to get a half-gallon of NH barber pole spiral lacquer for
the barrel itself, and a quart of star-spangled blue for the top. I
did give serious consideration to pukey-duck yellow and woodworkers'
burple, but decided those colors would seem overly pretentious in my
rather plebeian shop. The interior of the barrel and underside of the
lid should probably be painted BH black so as to absorb as much as
possible of the radiation from dust explosions...


Great idea but why not dispense with the fancy colors and go with "flat
black?" That way you could park the barrel outside the shop on the wall
with the southern exposure and plumb it through the wall, using the
barrel as a solar collector? With your DC and filter back inside the
shop you could be re-heating all that air instead of just moving it
around. g

Say What? wrote:

| Great idea but why not dispense with the fancy colors and go with
| "flat black?" That way you could park the barrel outside the shop
| on the wall with the southern exposure and plumb it through the
| wall, using the barrel as a solar collector? With your DC and
| filter back inside the shop you could be re-heating all that air
| instead of just moving it around. g

Thanks, but (seriously) flat black paint isn't adequate for efficient
absorption of solar radiation.

The setup you describe probably /would/ work well for wintertime
air-conditioning, though. 8-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:
Say What? wrote:

| Great idea but why not dispense with the fancy colors and go with
| "flat black?" That way you could park the barrel outside the shop
| on the wall with the southern exposure and plumb it through the
| wall, using the barrel as a solar collector? With your DC and
| filter back inside the shop you could be re-heating all that air
| instead of just moving it around. g

Thanks, but (seriously) flat black paint isn't adequate for efficient
absorption of solar radiation.

Interesting. What is the most efficient finish for absorption? I'm
seriously confused at this point (not an uncommon problem, I assure you,
but it boggles the mind that flat black on a surface would not suck in
the most heat.

Now, I realize (at least I THINK I do) that the design of collectors is
certainly more complex and efficient than a black object absorbing heat
and moving air inside the collector moving it around but color-wise,
what works better in any given setup?

Say What? wrote:
| Morris Dovey wrote:
|| Say What? wrote:
||
||| Great idea but why not dispense with the fancy colors and go with
||| "flat black?" That way you could park the barrel outside the shop
||| on the wall with the southern exposure and plumb it through the
||| wall, using the barrel as a solar collector? With your DC and
||| filter back inside the shop you could be re-heating all that air
||| instead of just moving it around. g
||
|| Thanks, but (seriously) flat black paint isn't adequate for
|| efficient absorption of solar radiation.
|
| Interesting. What is the most efficient finish for absorption? I'm
| seriously confused at this point (not an uncommon problem, I assure
| you, but it boggles the mind that flat black on a surface would not
| suck in the most heat.

I did a bit of experimenting with a single absorber design. Originally
I painted the absorber elements flat black. Then, just because, I left
the elements in their high-gloss (very thin) powdercoat and discovered
that absorber efficiency went way up. It was totally unexpected. It
turns out that the flat black paint acted as a thermal insulator,
inhibited air flow over the surface of the element, and generally got
in the way of everything I wanted to happen.

Also important - it isn't sufficient to merely /look/ black, because
looking black is only an indication that the visible portion of the
spectrum is not being significantly reflected. It's necessary to
ensure that the infrared (which isn't visible) is also being absorbed.
I have a web page at the link below with a graph showing the level of
energy in solar radiation plotted against wavelength (color). It's
worth a look and a quick reading because the energy in the visible
region is only a fraction of the total available.

Let's assume that we've built a collector with a (magic) absorber that
absorbs 100% of the incoming energy. Good stuff, except that as the
absorber absorbs all that energy, it warms up and wants to re-radiate
all that energy as infrared. Now we have the problem of transfering
that energy into the air in the collector box and extracting it
without re-radiating it back through the glazing into the outdoors.
This is where flat black paint /really/ gets in the way because it
simultaneously insulates the heat exchanger _and_ inhibits the free
flow of air.

What I've done with my panels is to integrate absorber and heat
exchanger in such a way as to /use/ the reflective surface of the
absorber to reflect solar energy inward while making it
(geometrically) difficult to re-radiate back through the glazing. That
shiny reflective surface minimizes friction between air and heat
exchanger, and the result is a fast convection current.

| Now, I realize (at least I THINK I do) that the design of
| collectors is certainly more complex and efficient than a black
| object absorbing heat and moving air inside the collector moving it
| around but color-wise, what works better in any given setup?

According to the physics guys, I could produce a moderate improvement
if I could replace the glossy black surface on the absorber elements
with a highly-polished gold plating. The zinger is that the
gold-plated absorber would more than _look_ black - it would _be_
black!

I don't even dream about trying it, but it's fun to think about. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Absorber.html

Morris Dovey wrote:

I don't even dream about trying it, but it's fun to think about. :-)

Forget paint, use space shuttle heat shield tile.

B A R R Y wrote:

| Forget paint, use space shuttle heat shield tile.

What I actually did is probably closer, in principle, to stealth
technology. The major differences are that I'm dealing with a higher
input level, a wider spectrum, and a requirement to deliver the
absorbed energy for use.

There's a starting point for anyone interested in purposefully
designing this kind of stuff at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_body - but be aware that there's
serious effort involved - which may be why most builders don't get any
farther than the black paint stage.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Hooked up the shop-vac and fired up the router this morning - and to
my considerable amazement, the mini-cyclone worked like a champ.

Now I'm thinking I may have to add a window to the lid so I can watch
the chips go round and round (and round...)

I'm sure it'll work better with a good paint job. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:
Hooked up the shop-vac and fired up the router this morning - and to
my considerable amazement, the mini-cyclone worked like a champ.

Now I'm thinking I may have to add a window to the lid so I can watch
the chips go round and round (and round...)

Add a small light, maybe colored, so you can see the cyclonic action all
the way to the bottom of the barrel. Hell, add a video port so you can
create a DVD. So much easier than constantly running out to the shop,
firing up the router table or table saw for amusement. g


I'm sure it'll work better with a good paint job. :-)

Use a decent lacquer for better speed!