Hello folks, need some advise. I want to get a small compressor to blow
air out of my turnings and use a small air sander. I have seen a Porter
Cable pancake one that comes with a brad nailer. It has received good
reviews for use with nailers but nothing about continuous/short burst
use. My wife will also use it when with a mini air grinder for her
scrollsaw/intarsia stuff.. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Guy

Sanders and grinders have a high air requirement. Either a fast compressor
or a large tank, with good sense favoring the combination. I use a tube and
the lungs to clear insides of turnings, though my 20gallon will do a
couple/three minutes of air grinder before it starts to slow.

No way a 3-4gal pancake is going to do it.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello folks, need some advise. I want to get a small compressor to blow
air out of my turnings and use a small air sander. I have seen a Porter
Cable pancake one that comes with a brad nailer. It has received good
reviews for use with nailers but nothing about continuous/short burst
use. My wife will also use it when with a mini air grinder for her
scrollsaw/intarsia stuff.. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Guy

For about $379, you can get an upright compressor from Home Depot or Lowe's
(made by Campbell-Hausfield) with a 60 gallon tank. It's rated for 6 HP,
but it's probably more like 2 or 3 actual HP.

The pancake compressors are just so cute! I looked at several this past
summer and was very tempted to buy one. I was looking at a Dewalt/Emglo for
about $329.

For about $50 more, I got a real compressor that will handle most anything I
want it to do, spray finish and run most air tools. I use a blow gun a lot
to clear chips off my lathe or to clear hollow turnings. My compressor runs
only occasionally. Much better than one of the little ones kicking on every
time I use the blowgun.

The small portable/pancake/stack tank models are primarily intended to power
brad guns and nail guns and they do that very well. For much else, you need
a bigger compressor. If you are using a mini air grinder, similar to a
dental drill, a small compressor could be enough. Just check the tool's air
consumption requirements and buy the compressor that you need. It's not a
real problem to buy more compressor than you need, but the reverse of that
can be a real pain.

Barry


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello folks, need some advise. I want to get a small compressor to blow
air out of my turnings and use a small air sander. I have seen a Porter
Cable pancake one that comes with a brad nailer. It has received good
reviews for use with nailers but nothing about continuous/short burst
use. My wife will also use it when with a mini air grinder for her
scrollsaw/intarsia stuff.. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Guy

The Husky brand sold by Home Deopt is made by DeVilbiss, which is OK in
my book.

Which is why that's what I got.

800+ sq ft of wood flooring later, I'm still happy with it.

Got the 25 gal upright, with the accessory kit for under $300.
John
Maker of Fine Wood Chips and Sawdust

I got the Husky brand alright, but I'm almost positive mine is made by
Campbell-Hausfield. Their factory is in Leitchfield, KY, about 50 miles
away from me. Mine is red. The exact same compressor is sold by Lowe's,
but it is blue. I think perhaps one manufacturer will make compressors for
several different brands. I looked at a Porter Cable, not sure who makes
it. It's compressor was aluminum. Mine is cast iron. That's what sold me,
quieter, longer life. I hope, anyway.

Barry


"woodgrinder" wrote in message
oups.com...
The Husky brand sold by Home Deopt is made by DeVilbiss, which is OK in
my book.

Which is why that's what I got.

800+ sq ft of wood flooring later, I'm still happy with it.

Got the 25 gal upright, with the accessory kit for under $300.
John
Maker of Fine Wood Chips and Sawdust

Yes. They are quite portable. They don't take up nearly as much room in
the shop either. I had wondered if the small units were large enough for
any spray finishing. I have a Binks No. 7 spraygun and wondered if I would
be able to use it for small items, like pieces of furniture and turned
items. In the end, I decided not to take the chance and went for the
larger compressor.

Barry


"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:47:47 -0600, "Barry N. Turner"
wrote:

The small portable/pancake/stack tank models are primarily intended to
power
brad guns and nail guns and they do that very well.

Don't forget portability. G

FWIW, I plumbed an extra Milton quick connect between my 6 gallon PC
pancake's pressure switch and regulator. When I need more capacity, I
snap in a Rigid 11 gallon tank, the compressor will then charge all 17
gallons of tank to 135 PSI. I keep the portable tank charged. When
I need more capacity, I simply plug it in and open the valve. The
portable tank will also inflate a lot of tires, shoot plenty of finish
nails, etc... and it's always ready to go somewhere else.

This works quite well with blowguns, larger nailers, and small
sprayers, like the Critter, without losing much portability.

For completely stationary use, I'd go for one of the oil lubed, 60
gallon, 220 volt units that goes for about $450 at the BORGs.

Barry

I suppose it may depend on the model. After I got it, I called Home
Depot and asked about mine, who said DeVilbiss made it, and I called
DeVilbiss tech support, who took the model and S/N of my unit and
confirmed that they made it. After doing 6 years of computer phone
support, I like to check out the support for things before I commit to
keeping them.

If it was C-H, I would avoid it. I had a C-H HVLP unit literally melt
down once. Home Depot replaced it, but that left a bad impression.
OK, maybe I'm picky. All right, doggone it, I *am* picky. I'm not
rich enough to throw my money away on junk.

Returning to the original poster's question: pancake compressors *are*
portable, they *are* relatively inexpensive, but they just don't have
enough storage capacity for paint spray or high-volume tools. They are
great for jobsite nailers and the like.

I can't give you a simple "get this or get that" answer. Think about
how you will use it in the future, and consider the long-term cost.
Will you ever spray paint, or other finish? How much space do you
have?

I myself opted for the 25 gal upright, because floor space is limited,
but I DO spray, and I also planned to use high-volume air tools. But
in your case, will life end because you choose a tool that someone else
might not? Naw, didn't think so. You could even be creative, like
Barry (below) and use add-ons. But you might want the whole schmeer at
once. What works best for you?

I think you've gotten a lot different viewpoints and options. My
advice is to hunt down a gool deal and get the best buy. Then post a
gloat!

John
Maker of Fine Wood chips and Sawdust

Barry, is that 60 gal compressor 220v ac???? for me that is an issue as
there is only 110v in the garage opps shop. I have wondered the same thing
the original poster. Seems to me Home Depot has a 25 gal with accessories
for around $300. You know how it is, I won't be useing air tools and 6
months later you are trying them out. Thanks for the info.

Bruce
"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message
...
For about $379, you can get an upright compressor from Home Depot or
Lowe's
(made by Campbell-Hausfield) with a 60 gallon tank. It's rated for 6 HP,
but it's probably more like 2 or 3 actual HP.

The pancake compressors are just so cute! I looked at several this past
summer and was very tempted to buy one. I was looking at a Dewalt/Emglo
for
about $329.

For about $50 more, I got a real compressor that will handle most anything
I
want it to do, spray finish and run most air tools. I use a blow gun a
lot
to clear chips off my lathe or to clear hollow turnings. My compressor
runs
only occasionally. Much better than one of the little ones kicking on
every
time I use the blowgun.

The small portable/pancake/stack tank models are primarily intended to
power
brad guns and nail guns and they do that very well. For much else, you
need
a bigger compressor. If you are using a mini air grinder, similar to a
dental drill, a small compressor could be enough. Just check the tool's
air
consumption requirements and buy the compressor that you need. It's not a
real problem to buy more compressor than you need, but the reverse of that
can be a real pain.

Barry


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello folks, need some advise. I want to get a small compressor to blow
air out of my turnings and use a small air sander. I have seen a Porter
Cable pancake one that comes with a brad nailer. It has received good
reviews for use with nailers but nothing about continuous/short burst
use. My wife will also use it when with a mini air grinder for her
scrollsaw/intarsia stuff.. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Guy

Well, it was definitely Campbell-Hausfield that made mine. I double-checked
today at lunchtime. The compressor on mine is cast iron instead of aluminum
as many of the other brands are. That was a selling point for me.

No, you're not being picky. I don't blame you for avoiding a brand you've
had a bad experience with. I have a problem throwing money away, too. I'd
rather pay more for something........as long as I actually get more. What
actually happened with your earlier unit?

Barry

PS I figure if I get a lemon, I'll just drive up to the
Campbell-Hausfield factory and camp out until they make it right!
So far I've been well pleased. Of course, my unit probably has 10 hours
on it, too.


"woodgrinder" wrote in message
oups.com...
I suppose it may depend on the model. After I got it, I called Home
Depot and asked about mine, who said DeVilbiss made it, and I called
DeVilbiss tech support, who took the model and S/N of my unit and
confirmed that they made it. After doing 6 years of computer phone
support, I like to check out the support for things before I commit to
keeping them.

If it was C-H, I would avoid it. I had a C-H HVLP unit literally melt
down once. Home Depot replaced it, but that left a bad impression.
OK, maybe I'm picky. All right, doggone it, I *am* picky. I'm not
rich enough to throw my money away on junk.

Returning to the original poster's question: pancake compressors *are*
portable, they *are* relatively inexpensive, but they just don't have
enough storage capacity for paint spray or high-volume tools. They are
great for jobsite nailers and the like.

I can't give you a simple "get this or get that" answer. Think about
how you will use it in the future, and consider the long-term cost.
Will you ever spray paint, or other finish? How much space do you
have?

I myself opted for the 25 gal upright, because floor space is limited,
but I DO spray, and I also planned to use high-volume air tools. But
in your case, will life end because you choose a tool that someone else
might not? Naw, didn't think so. You could even be creative, like
Barry (below) and use add-ons. But you might want the whole schmeer at
once. What works best for you?

I think you've gotten a lot different viewpoints and options. My
advice is to hunt down a gool deal and get the best buy. Then post a
gloat!

John
Maker of Fine Wood chips and Sawdust

Yes, my compressor is 220 volt. For me, that wasn't a problem. Home Depot
does have several smaller (but still larger than a pancake) compressors that
operate on 110.

Barry


"Bruce Ferguson" wrote in message
...
Barry, is that 60 gal compressor 220v ac???? for me that is an issue as
there is only 110v in the garage opps shop. I have wondered the same
thing
the original poster. Seems to me Home Depot has a 25 gal with accessories
for around $300. You know how it is, I won't be useing air tools and 6
months later you are trying them out. Thanks for the info.

Bruce
"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message
...
For about $379, you can get an upright compressor from Home Depot or
Lowe's
(made by Campbell-Hausfield) with a 60 gallon tank. It's rated for 6
HP,
but it's probably more like 2 or 3 actual HP.

The pancake compressors are just so cute! I looked at several this past
summer and was very tempted to buy one. I was looking at a Dewalt/Emglo
for
about $329.

For about $50 more, I got a real compressor that will handle most
anything
I
want it to do, spray finish and run most air tools. I use a blow gun a
lot
to clear chips off my lathe or to clear hollow turnings. My compressor
runs
only occasionally. Much better than one of the little ones kicking on
every
time I use the blowgun.

The small portable/pancake/stack tank models are primarily intended to
power
brad guns and nail guns and they do that very well. For much else, you
need
a bigger compressor. If you are using a mini air grinder, similar to a
dental drill, a small compressor could be enough. Just check the tool's
air
consumption requirements and buy the compressor that you need. It's not
a
real problem to buy more compressor than you need, but the reverse of
that
can be a real pain.

Barry


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello folks, need some advise. I want to get a small compressor to blow
air out of my turnings and use a small air sander. I have seen a Porter
Cable pancake one that comes with a brad nailer. It has received good
reviews for use with nailers but nothing about continuous/short burst
use. My wife will also use it when with a mini air grinder for her
scrollsaw/intarsia stuff.. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Guy

Aluminum cools faster than cast, which is why many compressors and
air-cooled engines of all flavors with iron inserts have aluminum cooling
fins.

Though it may have been a buy recommendation for you, it does have its
drawbacks.

"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message
...
Well, it was definitely Campbell-Hausfield that made mine. I
double-checked
today at lunchtime. The compressor on mine is cast iron instead of
aluminum
as many of the other brands are. That was a selling point for me.

I'm not a very heavy user of my air compressor. Regardless of the pro's and
con's, it probably won't make a lot of difference in the long run for me. I
had noticed that many of the commercial duty compressors had cast iron
compressors, if that means anything. Maybe aluminum with cast iron cylinder
inserts is the best way to go. Anyway, my compressor is working fine for
the time being. I'll just have to wait and see about the longevity angle.

Barry


"George" george@least wrote in message
...
Aluminum cools faster than cast, which is why many compressors and
air-cooled engines of all flavors with iron inserts have aluminum cooling
fins.

Though it may have been a buy recommendation for you, it does have its
drawbacks.

"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message
...
Well, it was definitely Campbell-Hausfield that made mine. I
double-checked
today at lunchtime. The compressor on mine is cast iron instead of
aluminum
as many of the other brands are. That was a selling point for me.

"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message
...
I'm not a very heavy user of my air compressor. Regardless of the pro's
and
con's, it probably won't make a lot of difference in the long run for me.
I
had noticed that many of the commercial duty compressors had cast iron
compressors, if that means anything. Maybe aluminum with cast iron
cylinder
inserts is the best way to go. Anyway, my compressor is working fine for
the time being. I'll just have to wait and see about the longevity angle.

Barry


"George" george@least wrote in message
...
Aluminum cools faster than cast, which is why many compressors and
air-cooled engines of all flavors with iron inserts have aluminum
cooling
fins.

Though it may have been a buy recommendation for you, it does have its
drawbacks.

It's not longevity. I didn't say that. It's efficiency. The reason you
want fast cooling is it gets you more compressed air faster. Warm air is
less dense, remember? Suck into a warmer cylinder and you start out with
less.

you are half right - commercial compressors have an intercooler - makes a
huge difference


"George" george@least wrote in message
...

"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message
...
I'm not a very heavy user of my air compressor. Regardless of the pro's
and
con's, it probably won't make a lot of difference in the long run for
me.
I
had noticed that many of the commercial duty compressors had cast iron
compressors, if that means anything. Maybe aluminum with cast iron
cylinder
inserts is the best way to go. Anyway, my compressor is working fine
for
the time being. I'll just have to wait and see about the longevity
angle.

Barry


"George" george@least wrote in message
...
Aluminum cools faster than cast, which is why many compressors and
air-cooled engines of all flavors with iron inserts have aluminum
cooling
fins.

Though it may have been a buy recommendation for you, it does have its
drawbacks.

It's not longevity. I didn't say that. It's efficiency. The reason you
want fast cooling is it gets you more compressed air faster. Warm air is
less dense, remember? Suck into a warmer cylinder and you start out with
less.

That's after compression and mostly to dry the air to the best of my
knowledge, its a big problem if moisture is not removed, at the other
end of the pipeline, try using air power tools with oil and water coming
out or painting with moister in the compressed air,

william_b_noble wrote:
you are half right - commercial compressors have an intercooler - makes a
huge difference


"George" george@least wrote in message
...

"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message
. ..

I'm not a very heavy user of my air compressor. Regardless of the pro's

and

con's, it probably won't make a lot of difference in the long run for

me.

I

had noticed that many of the commercial duty compressors had cast iron
compressors, if that means anything. Maybe aluminum with cast iron

cylinder

inserts is the best way to go. Anyway, my compressor is working fine

for

the time being. I'll just have to wait and see about the longevity

angle.

Barry


"George" george@least wrote in message
...

Aluminum cools faster than cast, which is why many compressors and
air-cooled engines of all flavors with iron inserts have aluminum

cooling

fins.

Though it may have been a buy recommendation for you, it does have its
drawbacks.

It's not longevity. I didn't say that. It's efficiency. The reason you
want fast cooling is it gets you more compressed air faster. Warm air is
less dense, remember? Suck into a warmer cylinder and you start out with
less.

Ayup. Compressing heats the air - which is why the cooling vanes. Heated
air can hold more moisture, but gives it back to you when decompressed.

"Leo Van Der Loo" wrote in message
...


That's after compression and mostly to dry the air to the best of my
knowledge, its a big problem if moisture is not removed, at the other
end of the pipeline, try using air power tools with oil and water coming
out or painting with moister in the compressed air,

william_b_noble wrote:
you are half right - commercial compressors have an intercooler - makes
a
huge difference

I've just reviewed the thread and here are a couple of thoughts.

1. Most of the HP ratings you see on retail compressors are "Peak" which
is more a measure of the inertia in the motor than a true measure of its
power. A motor converts electrical power to mechanical. The maximum
electrical power you can get out of a regular outlet is ( if I remember
correctly ) about 1.25 HP. Even assuming 100% efficiency ( breaks 3rd
law of thermodynamics) you can't have a motor with more than about 1.25
continuous power on a 110V 15A circuit, anything greater is the
marketing department skirting the edge of lying.

2. The ratings that you are interested in is the CFM ( cubic feet per
minute) at a particular PSI ( pounds per square inch). All the tools
have a minmum rating with the same numbers I.E. 8 CFM at 80 PSI. If the
compressor's CFM is less than the sum of the CFMs of the tools you use
at the SAME time then you will have problems having to wait for the
compressor to fill the tank. You need to convert to the same pressure.

I.E. Two tools

a. 6 CFM at 60 PSI; and
b. 8 CFM at 120 PSI.

equals

a. 3CFM at 120 PSI; and
b. 8CFM at 120 PSI

Total 11 CFM at 120 PSI

If your compressor is rated at less than that then you either use fewer
tools or get a bigger compressor.

3. You can get away with adding in a larger tank as long as its big
enough and your aveage usage is small enough. Essentially your letting
your compressor run for a long time and then using the air relatively
quickly. If you then wait for a while the compressor may catch up. Your
compressor will take longer to come up to working pressure and wear out
faster ( longer duty cycles). Personally I don't think its a good way to
go. I use my compressor infrequently but when I do I use it a lot all at
once.

4. If you are going to spray you need to get a water separator to get
the moisture out.

5. If you are going to use tools you either remember to put a drop of
oil in the tool regularly or you get an oiler which adds it to the air.

6. If your doing both 4 and 5 you need to have two separate MARKED hoses
since oil in the tool hose is bad for the paint gun. The best idea here
is to put the dryer in and then a T junction. One leg leads to the oiler
and then a quick connect for the "oiled" line. The other leg goes to a
quick connect for your paint line. Don't mix up the hoses or the "clean"
hose will be contaminated with oil.

7. For spray painting I have two HVLP setups. One is a 110V compressor
that is too small for anything but light usage, 5ft of one side of a 2x6
and you wait about 30 seconds for more air. The other is a 4 stage
turbine that works great. The turbine runs on a regular electrical
outlet, supplies lots of low pressure air and is easily portable. A
compressor based setup would require a trailer, 220V, gas or diesel
power to give the same portable performance. One the other hand I would
have to use a hammer if I didn't have the compressor.

HVLP = High Volume Low Pressure

Transfer Efficiency is up to double a regular gun and 75-80% of a brush.

TE is basically how much paint started out in the can as compared to how
much made it to the object being painted. A brush is close to 100%, HVLP
60-80%, regular high pressure spray gun is 30-40%, high pressure paint
pumps are worse than regular spray guns.

TTFN - Frank

Frank's comments are dead on - when buying a compressor, look at flow and
PSI, ignore horsepower. He is not right about the 1.25 horsepower IF you
allow 220V as well.

Here are two specific compressors I have, to illustrate his point (compare
these to the "5 HP" compressors sold at harbor freight or home depot or your
local big box hardware store)

1. sears compressor, 2 hp, about 25 years old, 7.3 CFM at 60 psi (this is
more than the "5 hp" compressors, in fact it's more than the "8 hp"
compressors I've seen). When I used this to paint a car, where it had to
deliver at rated capacity for an hour or so, the compressor got hot enough
to burn off the paint from the head, and I had to rebuild it because of a
cracked ring. I found it could run my small sandblaster for about 20
seconds before the tank would be empty and I'd have to let pressure build up
again.

2. my main compressor is a Quincy with a 5 horsepower motor - 19.5 CFM at
160 PSI - two cylinders with an intercooler. It weighs about 400 pounds if
I remember right - note that this is a "real" 5 hp, and the compressor is
properly sized - the compressor itself is about 24 inches high, 18 inches
deep and 18 inches wide and has an oil pump to pressurize the bearings (and
an oil pressure gauge as well). Because it has an intercooler, the air is
much dryer than I get from the Sears compressor. And, this one can deliver
its rated air all day without over heating.

I got the quincy compressor for about $800, rebuilt, from an industrial
compressor rebuilder - I'm very happy with it - I'd suggest that you
consider a used industrial compressor if you have any need at all for
anything more than occasionally blowing up a bicycle tire. I use air
sanders on my wood turning, they are much nicer, no heating of the motor,
better control, less noise -


"Frank Luet" wrote in message
...
I've just reviewed the thread and here are a couple of thoughts.

1. Most of the HP ratings you see on retail compressors are "Peak" which
is more a measure of the inertia in the motor than a true measure of its
power. A motor converts electrical power to mechanical. The maximum


snip

You're right about the 220V causing a change in parameters.Note that I said
115V @ 15A which is the "normal" circuit where I live.

My main point there was that the so called HP ratings on most retail
machines have weasle phrases like "peak". It allows the mrketing types to
claim higher nubers and essentially lie to the consumer without legally
lying. If you want to get a true feeling for the size of the motor look at
the voltage and the amperage, from that you can get a true estimate of the
realpower th motor can deliver.

Your point about the duty cycle of the compressor is good too. Many of the
smaller compressors can only be on for part of an hour before they have to
cool down. It depends a lot on how hot the incoming air is and how much
ventilation the compressor has. Many people try to put the compressor
somewhere where it will be "quieter". Unfortunately this tends to mean very
bad air circulation, hence more overheating problems. Good air circulation
can really help the compressor stay cool.

Regards


"william_b_noble" wrote in message
news:1105213477.cdc6992f339eee8061e10bc08b86b122@t eranews...
Frank's comments are dead on - when buying a compressor, look at flow and
PSI, ignore horsepower. He is not right about the 1.25 horsepower IF you
allow 220V as well.
Snip

2. The ratings that you are interested in is the CFM ( cubic feet per
minute) at a particular PSI ( pounds per square inch). All the tools
have a minmum rating with the same numbers I.E. 8 CFM at 80 PSI. If the
compressor's CFM is less than the sum of the CFMs of the tools you use
at the SAME time then you will have problems having to wait for the
compressor to fill the tank.

Quite right, Frank, as far as you go. All compressors have a duty cycle.
Air-cooled home shop compressors are often rated at a 50% duty cycle. That
is, they must rest and cool as long as they run. Therefore, for your 8 CFM
example above, you would need to buy a 16 CFM compressor rated at 50% duty
cycle. Dan